Could someone keep an eye on Reason and the rest of the glibertarians and let me know when one of them figures out that this is something you would generally think would concern libertarians:
It would make not having immigration documents a new state misdemeanor, and allow officers to arrest anyone who could not immediately prove they were here legally. That means if you are brown-skinned and leave home without a wallet, you are in trouble.
Police agencies that believe overly tough enforcement tactics are undercutting their ability to fight crime would have to crack down anyway. The bill would require police officers who have “reasonable suspicion” about someone’s immigration status to demand to see documents. And it would empower anyone to sue any state agency or official or any county, city or town that he or she believes is not fully enforcing immigration law.
The bill, passed by Arizona’s Republican-controlled House on a party-line vote, has already passed the state Senate and will soon be before Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican. She has not said whether she will sign it.
Immigrant advocates and civil-rights lawyers are appalled, and so are police chiefs and sheriffs who say the bill is an assault on public safety, since it would force newly criminalized immigrants to fear and shun the police. It would divert law enforcement resources away from chasing violent offenders, and toward an all-out assault on the mostly harmless undocumented, with the innocent as collateral damage.
In fairness, I have not been following them closely, so they have mentioned it in passing before getting back to really important libertarian issues, like the obvious non-racism of the tea party, what public employees earn, and why the Oklahoma City bombing is really Bill Clinton’s fault. Also, ROBOT SEX.
BTW- does this mean it is now unsafe for John Boehner to travel in Arizona?
Just Some Fuckhead
Glibertarians as a rule aren’t very brownish.
Republicans? Shit, them boys n gals are a fucking clown posse. Bozo the clown.
There goes the tanning salon bidness.
I’m thinking John Boehner doesn’t go to Ariz. Orange-Americans should prove their provenance as well.
proving again their contempt for democratic government, the republicans adopt policies employed by the former eastern bloc countries that required documents for internal movement.
what a disgrace from the country that was born out of immigration.
Without intending to play the race card, I wonder how much of this is due to a black man in the White House? I mean, if McCain were president do you think he could have pushed forward a fair immigration policy, on the same basis as the Nixon to China bit?
There is a bit in the West Wing where the Latino candidate for President doesn’t want to come out against banning drivers’ licences for illegal immigrants and says to the white Governor that people didn’t need to hear a Latino coming out against it but needed to hear it from the white man instead. Perhaps there’s something to that? Who knows, if McCain had acted in the manner contemplated by his somewhat gracious concession speech the country could have truly moved forward in a positive way.
I think I’ll make it a point to stay far, far away from Arizona. Being that I’m of Italian descent and tan very nicely, it seems like the prudent thing to do.
Something tells me my tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed husband would not encounter any difficulties in AZ, even though he has a Dutch passport.
It’s not too surprising– issues tend to get clearer all of a sudden when you’ve been standing out in the 110 degree heat for a while. It’s not an accident that several major religions were born in the desert.
Ahh, geez. So, in addition to driving while black, we now get walking around while not pasty faced? Shopping while complected? Reasonable suspicion of enjoying spicy foods? Goddamn I love America, and not just because of the senseless and unthinking rubes our glorious freedoms safely allow to spring up like mushrooms — in FDA-safe shit, no less.
@bkny: The eastern bloc countries required that everyone carry documents for internal movement. The Republicans only require this for non-Aryans. This is about blood, not paperwork.
That’s not all – we’re also passing an Oprah gun law (“You get a gun! You get a gun! EVERY. BODY. GETS. A. GUN!”), and a birther resolution requiring Obama to produce a birth certificate if he wants to be on the ballot here in 2012. Buncha stupid fucking rednecks run this state, I’m telling you.
The sad thing is, aside from the retarded state government, it’s a nice place to live.
Generally, when something is too over-the-top for the freakin’ cops, you know it’s a terrible, terrible idea.
I’ll bet that cocksucker Joe Arpaio loves it, though.
Oh, come on. Balko isn’t saying anything of the sort about Oklahoma City being anyone’s fault other than McVeigh’s. Really, I’m not surprised to see that kind of “sacrifice the truth for the sake of snarky laughs” shit from TBogg, but here?
McCain and Kyl both support this bill. McCain did so because he’s running against a very conservative talk radio host, who is a windbag like Rush Limbaugh. The conservative white folks in Mesa all remember when McCain tried to pass a decent, non-punitive immigration bill in the US Senate, and McCain thinks he has to please them to win the primary
If he does win, he’ll forget he ever supported this bill.
Please keep up the national outcry over this outrage–the governor needs to be pressured into vetoing it. She knows that Arizona’s main industry is tourism.
And does the law spell out what “reasonable suspicion” means? Because I’m guessing that it was probably meant to map to “brown person”, or more probably “brown person not well dressed and driving an expensive car”, and is just begging to be the subject of the mother of all civil rights lawsuits.
About 40% of the population of Arizona is made-up of latinos, indians and blacks. The police are going to busy.
Bill E Pilgrim
Anyone claiming to be a Libertarian instead of a Republican should be required to show a rebirth certificate.
And no reproductions, I mean the real Galt copy.
The direction I took that also was that this opens up the possibility of using this law as a tool to hassle anybody you’re feuding with, pasty or non-pasty. Accusation-dropping so that people keep having to show up in police stations and courts to defend themselves — I know somebody with a stalker doing just that.
DOJ should investigate the Arizona legislature and Governor. I don’t know why they aren’t doing so already. This is an outrage.
McMegan’s defense of this crap should be scintillating.
Remember, the 4th Amendment only requires that police feel like they might have adequate cause to think you might be or be doing something wrong before you’re vanished into an unknown holding center without charges ever having been filed.
IT’S IN THE CONSTUSHUN, LIBRULS!
BTW- does this mean it is now unsafe for John Boehner to travel in Arizona?
lol, some coffee just flew out of my nose.
On the plus side, this would ‘take our country back’ to the good old days when local cops could hassle you or throw out of town any darkie they didn’t think had good business to be there.
Any chance the governor will veto this?
@Bill Zebub: I think you had better explain that to his comment section.
So, they want to scare off all the undocumented workers? Then who will pick all the fifty dollar an hour lettuce? You can’t do it, my friend.
Bill E Pilgrim
Somebody better call the NAAOCP.
Now, that’s just funny. Boehner and the Countryside guy, Mozilo whatshisname. Because a UV lamp is terrible thing to waste.
OT but related: Does anybody know what happened at the DADT demo at Lafayette Park? It’s gone viral on YouTube and Facebook, but it looks to me as if they’re all referencing one inflammatory post that doesn’t say, for instance, whether or not the 6 vets had a permit. Is it SOP for them to close the park when people handcuff themselves to the railing?
Bill E Pilgrim
@jibeaux: A terrible tan is a thing to mind?
Ok, how in the hell will this pass muster for the supreme court? I know that they are pretty pro-prosecution, but … since when does doing a piss poor imitation of bad guy from a made-for-tv cold war movie pass constitutional muster?
the hell? It’s TITLED “Government, violence, and Bill Clinton.” It SAYS
TBogg ain’t exactly reading between the lines here.
Can they bust me in a swimming pool? Do I hafta throw my billfold in a Ziplock and duct tape it to my scrotum before I get in a few laps?
Tanning salon in Arizona here I come!
I smell HUGE lawsuit!
Bill E Pilgrim
No they take care of that when they implant the microchip.
You guys are missing this most awesomest, most unreal aspect of this. It allows any crazy-ass nutter to sue simply because of their impression that the city is not doing enough, even if it really is doing all it can. The likely outcome of this provision has the opportunity to take out the legal budgets of nearly any city in a matter of weeks.
Imagine 15 nutters suing the city every time they see a Latino walking down their street. Too funny.
If you combine this with the new Birther law they are passing, does that mean that children of immigrants must have “vault copies” of their birth certificates on hand at all times?
The bill is toxic and should not become law.
I am going to go out on a ledge here and say that there is at least a chance that Governor Brewer will veto the bill. She is a Republican, but she isn’t a lunatic like most Republicans, and might be smart enough to just say no to this POS.
Doesn’t anybody remember the movie “Born in East L.A.?” We already know this kind of law is bad news and leads to American citizens getting deported to Mexico.
That’s a whole fuckton of “any”s for a particular law. I thought laws were written to be more specific and focused. Reading this, can I sue the governor whenever I come across an illegal? Can I sue McCain just for slaps n’ tickles?
On CNN this AM they did a story about candidates having to prove their citizenship, and they framed it as ‘Obama must prove that he was born in the US, even though he has proven it in the past’
Way to go CNN, at least that one slipped by.
Now Fox on the other hand…..
The next logical step would then be for AZ police to set up 4th Amendment constitutional “safety road blocks” on roads where they then request the citizenship status of everyone in the car. If they ever decided to do that, say, in the afternoon, wouldn’t we then have a live reinactment of Bob Marley’s ‘3 O’clock Road Block’? There is no greater proof that we are now living in a banana republic than when proposed laws exactly match the very topic of protest songs from other banana republic’s 40 years ago.
Can’t wait though for AZ black & brown population to say ‘fuck this shit’ and leave. It will fun when finding out how all these geriatric racist asshats will replace their own bed pans, take care of their own children, mop their own floors, eat out, and repair their own cars. Not saying those are the only jobs black & brown people do in AZ, but they do a lot of them. And as we know, John McCain wouldn’t even pick produce for $50 an hour.
Boehner came from Loompaland as part of a job-killing slave racket carefully orchestrated by former President Ronald Wilson “Willie” Ronka. The lifts in his shoes and the dyed hair don’t fool me: he’s an illegal.
Tort reform, bitchez!
Sounds to me – my memory for historical stuff having been prodded to life for Confederate History Month – kinda like the 2010 equivalent of the 1850 Fugitive Slave Law: i.e. a gang of extremist prejudiced wingnuts isn’t satisfied with enacting a punitive law* directed at some Outgroup they despise, but craft the law to 1) force compliance by official agencies to suit the extremists’ agenda; 2) set up a means to bolster extremist interpretations/enforcement by extra-official means (I read the “any citizen can sue” provision as a back-door method of ensuring that organized “groups of concerned citizens” – like the Minutemen or such “volunteer border patrols” – get a veto power over regulating enforcement/compliance via the threat of lawsuit). Wonderful: so the State of Arizona is not only contemplating the internal restrictions of the Soviet Union, but those of the Confederacy as well: who says no one has a sense of history anymore??
*OK, the proposed Arizona law only applies in-state: small benefit: I’m sure the anti-immigrant wingnuts would love to extend it outside the borders if they could.
I want to see a bill in one of the mountain state legislatures authorizing police to detain and interrogate people who can’t immediately prove they aren’t a member of a local militia. In the name of public safety.
@Brandon: Those fairways won’t mow themselves. All those bitter old racists would just have to kiss their precious golf goodbye.
Mentally ill American guy who spoke no Spanish deported to Mexico
Tara the antisocial social worker
I was going to suggest that Boehner take refuge in Florida, where Orange-Americans used to be welcome as a boon to the citrus industry. But they’re driving out fellow Orange-American Charlie Crist, so perhaps no place is safe.
@Tara the antisocial social worker: Isn’t the main city in Aruba called Oranjestad? That sounds like the perfect place for Boehner.
So, let’s say a bunch of states pass birther requirements that say candidates have to provide evidence of citizenship before they are placed on the ballot. And let’s surmise that Obama provides the same birth certificate that he’s posted on the internet; the one that the state of Hawaii has validated.
Will the wingnuts really go any further? Will they demand the long-form birth certificate (or whatever it is that they prattle on about)? Will they succeed legislatively by removing Obama from the ballot in a few ruby red states? I don’t see the point of all the birther bills unless they are angling for a true civil crisis. 2012 could be interesting.
@jibeaux: Let me try to make this as clear to you as I can.
At this rate, Arizona’s sole purpose for existence seems to be ensuring job security for ACLU lawyers. I can smell the civil rights suit from all the way here in Manhattan.
Yeah, isn’t that amazing? It’s what makes it not just a wingnut bill, but a Teabagger bill. It’s what you get when you go from an anti-intellectual party (GOP) to embracing ignorance and/or stupidity (wingnut) to actually *celebrating* that ignorance and stupidity: Teabagger.
Yeah, not exactly.
Sorry, link missing from previous post.
I don’t see how they can. There are still, um, rules, even for Republicans. A birth certificate isn’t an unusual document. They’re introduced all the time. All anyone needs is the certified copy. Obama produced more than that. He also produced the record-keeper,who attested to its authenticity.
I can’t imagine Arizona could require MORE than a court does.
It just doesn’t get any better than that what he’s provided. Document AND the person assigned by statute to keep the record. It’s over and above what you (or anyone else) would have to produce. It’s a little ludicrous. It’s as if you had to produce both your driver’s license and the state official charged with keeping that record.
The whole “long-form” thing is nonsense. The state of origin make the rules regarding birth registries, and their sufficiency. is Arizona now going to not recognize another state’s birth registry as legitimate? They may as well close down every Arizona family court.
There aren’t special rules for this particular person.
Maybe the next step is to require Mexican Americans to wear red, green and white arm bands.
As far as this law is concerned, that crazy Joe sheriff already is doing this. An acquaintance from Phoenix told me how her American citizen neighbor’s mother was carted back to Mexico after she was caught walking down the sidewalk without any documentation after another neighbor who disliked the family reported her. Yes, she was an illegal immigrant, but she was here to babysit her grandkids.
Really? We haven’t seen 110 degree heat since late last year. What makes you think that this has anything to do with the heat?
As an Arizona resident, and one with dark brown hair, dark brown eyes and of 100% European stock (English, German, French and Scottish mostly – although there is that small bit of Egyptian and Persian ancestry from many generations ago in my royal bloodline from King Henry II of England), I’m wondering how long it will take for someone to pull me over and ask questions about my racial make-up. TZ is safe… me, not so much!
Like the Jewess, Natalie Jastrow (Ali McGraw) in The Winds of War stating she was Mona Lisa when asked to identify her ancestry and name after being escorted into Germany under promise of safe passage, I think I’ll go with Betsy Ross, I’ll even be half right, hehe!
Dear lord, what the heck has happened to my home state? Granted, I’ve been away for over 20 years now, but this just sounds insane given that a good majority of Southern Arizona is of hispanic descent and even more so in border towns like Nogales where I grew up.
Is there even the slightest penalty for employers hiring illegals in this law, or are they too sacred to touch?
OTOH, if anyone can sue any official, we can turn this into the Fuck You Sheriff Joe Law: have some Mexican student overstay his visa for a day, have a bunch of people witness him stepping over the Maricopa County line that day, and bingo! Lawsuit-o-rama!
Also, find every AZ Republican bigwig who is hiring illegals to do their gardening or housecleaning or whatever (hint: start with all of them), and sue the crap out of his Republican buddies in the local government. We have limones, people, it’s time to make some limonade!
Senario: Large company want’s a tax break from a town it’s located in.
Town can’t make that work fiscally and refuses.
Large company checks with legal and accounting and notes that they can sue the town for not enforcing immigration law.
The company would take a small hit (becuase of the legal fees) The town would take a huge hit as it has the double whammy of defending itself, then throwing money at enforcement to save everyone’s poltical careers.
Company points out it would be cheaper for the town to just give the company a tax break… and maybe a little leeway on that whole “eminent domain” thing.
…wow. This is… wow. It actually makes me question my own thesis, that we’ve hit Peak Wingnut and will be stuck here awhile. I was sure I’d nailed it when the terrifying April 19th gun rally to demonstrate how many patriots were ready to defy the government and take up arms drew 75 people. A revolution of armchair commanders is not going to go anywhere.
An entire state legislature picking up the extremest end of the crazy, though… no. I’m going to throw out a theory.
This law isn’t going anywhere, even if it’s signed. I see at least three reasons a court would put an instant hold on it until its constitutionality was decided on. It’s too vague, it’s draconianly (i iz cromulent!) unenforceable and it opens the government to infinite lawsuits. Sure it’s discriminatory, but they might have waited and let the law run to decide on that part. The other three, not so likely.
Sort of the same with the Birther Bill. Pass it into law. Who cares? Obama can establish his legal citizenship in ten seconds, like he did last time.
The legislature knows that both these laws are going to do squat. This is nothing but a political stunt to keep themselves from being teabagged. But hand in hand with that, someone’s going to have to stop it – the governor, the court? Someone will be blamed when these laws do precisely nothing. Who are they setting up to point fingers at? It’s a big game of Pass The Buck.
In defense of ze homeland I must ask you, “Your papers, please”.
Boehner will have to remember to step up from Kiwi Ochre and Meltonian Beige for his mantan. That’s all.
It he doens’t visit AZ too often, I think he can afford to splurge once in awhile.
Finally, God-Fearing REAL American Teabaggers will no longer have the crucial Arizona jobs stolen out from under them by illegals. When those durn brown-skinned folks are in Joe’s lockdown, they will finally have the opportunity to clean my suite at the Phoenician.
Arizona has just been added to my list of states in which not to step foot. Duly noted.
I was watching a special on black holes last night and that might give us some additional perspective:
As matter is sucked into a black hole, the negatively charged particles are sucked into the hole but the positively particles are ejected and manifest themselves as increasing radiation around the event horizon of the black hole. Once a certain amount of radiation appears, black holes have been known to disappear. As they disappear, however, they explode spewing out all that radiation.
The black hole of the right wing, white supremacists in this country is filing up fast and we are seeing a lot of escaped radiation from all the negative mass going into that hole. Yes, it might even have some sort of catastrophic last emanation before it gradually disappears, consumed by its own massive emptiness..
Just my analogy anyway…
You know how you solve this problem? Requiring EMPLOYERS to verify employees and whether they are legal. If they don’t, they lose their license to do business and get fined.
This bullshit idea is the very thing the far right cry about with regards to having national ID cards. Why not barcode these people now? I know, American citizens of latino descent can wear a barcode so if they are pulled over and questioned, they can just scan them and send them on their way.
I find all this troubling yet nobody on the right sees the problem here? Remember this old, white, tea bag sumbitches…in about 10 more years latinos (ones BORN in the USA) will be the majority in this country. DO YOU REALLY want their children growing up and hating your party or “ideals” of being an American?
I guess you do. I swear, the GOP may claim to be the party of business yet they sure are short sighted and clueless with everything (including business it seems).
Funny part is they have a law on the books that forces businesses to verify legal status OR ELSE a fine happens first THEN they lose their business license.
Did they pull that law?
I go for Spring Training every year. Guess I won’t in 2011.
I suppose this is where the modern Republican party eventually goes away. The racist Southern faction precludes the addition to the party of millions of hard-working Catholics who might find a home with the religious faction.
@MattF: Yeah, 110 deggree heat and peyote.
Some of my direct family has been here since New York was New Amsterdam and barring any under rug sweeping I am entirely of N European descent. In the winter I get towards pale (not far) but in the sunlight parts of the year I become very dark. I wear construction type clothes most of the time. What you’ve got is someone who would fit most of the metrics they’re going to use.
Now I have no particular reason to go to the southwest except possibly to ride the Harley in the winter. I guess I may have to rethink that as an option. Or maybe not, that might be a fight I’d like to have.
I seem to hear this small voice that says “barcodes for thee, but not for me” coming from the not too distant future.
Oh, don’t worry, we don’t mind Asians here, they tend to spend money.
The form of protest for this bill is blindingly obvious: if all the bill mentions is “suspected immigrants”, than that could be *anyone*: white, black, brown, whatever. If there are any progressive towns in Arizona who are outraged by this bill (particularly Hispanic-majority towns), I suggest they start demanding IDs from everyone who isn’t Hispanic.
And the lawsuit angle is even better: I think some progressive organization needs to launch an immediate lawsuit against Sherriff Joe for not checking the immigration status of every white person in his jurisdiction, because who KNOWS which of them might have snuck in from Canada or Germany or what have you? And wait a second: Joe *Arpaio*? That doesn’t sound like an American name to me. Tack on additional lawsuits for every Republican-leaning town and city in Arizona.
There is no way this law can be made to work in the way its proposers want it to work without (a) singling out Hispanics, or (b) being ridiculously broad. Pointing out (b) to them could be quite amusing.
That’s right, the intense tourism out here just has no basis.
Much better to ride around looking at denuded forests all day.