Also via OTB, this jackass who will probably win the Alabama Governorship based on this bit of idiocy:
The entire point behind driver’s license tests is to ensure that people know how to drive a car and don’t go careening through a red light and kill the good citizens of Alabama. Not to make sure your population speaks English.
The entire Republican party, starting with the Palin worship, the birtherism, the tea party idiocy, the obscene existing while brown law in Arizona, extending through the Guy Fawkes nonsense and this kind of asshattery has basically decided that the winning 2010 slogan for the GOP is the following:
Vote Republican- We’re Stupid Assholes
BTW- I can’t be the only one who is really impressed with the GOP minority outreach in the Michael Steele era.
SGEW
Who says that being a stupid asshole is a political hindrance?
After all, if we didn’t have stupid assholes in Congress it wouldn’t be truly representational.
Linda Featheringill
I have to give the good-old-boy credit. He is a good actor. He makes a good commercial even when his lines are totally stupid.
Maybe he should drop politics altogether and make a career out of starring in commercials.
Regarding his comments: I get the impression that having multi-language driver’s tests is Alabama’s biggest problem. Wow. Alabama must be paradise! Darn near perfect!
c u n d gulag
“thiz iz albama, oui speke inglish, oui juss kant rih tit.”
I’ll be more impressed when they have IQ qualifications, or competency tests, for white crackers who want to have children. His Mammy and Pappy wouldn’t have passed…
Brachiator
People in Alabama speak English? Who knew?
kansi
A master stroke of redundancy!
JenJen
“This is Alabama. If you want to live here…”
That’s the point at which I began laughing. (All apologies to any good posters who live down there.)
Paris
He doesn’t speak the english I hear around here. Lose the drawl or don’t drive.
Colonel Danite
I couldn’t understand half of what he said. He should learn to speak standard Midwestern English. This is America. Our news anchors speak midwestern English. If you want to live here and speak in front of a camera, learn it. Maybe it’s the businessman in me (or the bigot in me) but it makes sense.
beltane
I guess if you have nothing else to be proud of, being a stupid asshole will have to suffice.
And this fellow does not speak standard English, but a redneck patois. He would also most assuredly fail the test required for naturalization.
Max
Boy, the GOP is really going all in re: minority outreach.
Fucksticks.
Joseph Nobles
He can’t act. He was coached beyond measure to stamp out as much of the sneering as he could, and he’s wooden as a result – wooden being preferable to grossly contemptuous.
I am from Alabama, emphasis on from. I had the banjo surgically removed. Dreamland Barbecue just can’t make up for that kind of recalcitrant ignorance.
Robert
I don’t blame Rethugs for being stupid assholes. I mean, that’s who they are. My problem is with the rest of the electorate. Apparently there’s enough maroons that are ready to vote for the GOP again that the Rethugs have a shot at taking the House.At least that’s what the villagers say…
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Joseph Nobles:
Just out of curiosity, how many chickens did that cost? You see I have this problem with a harmonica that I’ve been trying to save up for…
john b
the editing reminds me of this
El Cid
Look, if a few people have to die on the roads from an unlicensed Spanish-speaker, then, dadgummit, somebody’s got to water that tree of liberty with their blood, because apparently the tree of liberty is a vampire.
Ari
Ignoring the obvious what-are-those-dirty-immigrants-doing-here subtext (text?) here, I have always wondered about this. Driving on the road requires not just a basic knowledge of how to physically drive a car (which, granted, all too few people seem to have in the first place), and how to be “social” while driving, but also how to respond to various textual cues in the environment. It seems that someone who can’t comprehend enough English to read signs probably shouldn’t be on the road (‘school zone – speed limit 25’ ‘bridge out ahead’ ‘use detour’) Although this is being co-opted by some real ugliness, is the basic concept here really right wing?
PeakVT
The world is becoming more global; Republicans are pushing to make American monolingual.
Rather predictable, no?
@Ari – of course non-English speakers need to be able to recognize the signs, but that doesn’t mean they need to be able to read full English sentences. I was able to rent a car and drive safely in Portugal despite not being able to speak Portuguese because I understood the signs and the basic concepts of driving.
Hal
On Facebook there are a bunch of groups like “I do not want to press 2 for English!” and other variations. What makes me laugh is some of the descriptions of the groups, like this for “No…I will not press ONE for spanish !!!!!!!!”
For those of us who think all visitors should be REQUIRED to speak english to be in the good ole USA. Do u think in mexico they have to press one for english ????
Then there is “I wonder if in Mexico, you have to press 1 for Spanish???”
My favorite is the description: “We press 1 for English, do they press 1 for Soanish” Not sure what Soanish is but I’m guessing this is a Teabagger group.
The funny thing is, many have very low membership, while ” TEQUILA doesn’t kill you, it only makes you stronger!” has a little over 50,000 members.
Now that’s progress.
Will
From Powerline, an article currently topping Memeorandum:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/04/026141.php
I know these people aren’t very intelligent, but still: they make their living writing about politics. Does John Hinderaker not understand that Obama and Bush come from different political parties? Does he not understand that the makeup of Bush’s coalition could not have been more different from Obama’s coalition? That when Bush started talking immigration reform, he instantly pissed off his own base? That when Obama starts talking immigration reform, he instantly RALLIES a large section of his?
I can’t believe how stupid these people are sometimes. I know I shouldn’t be surprised anymore.
The Dangerman
@kansi:
Too long for a bumper sticker?
MikeJ
@Ari: Meh. I’ve driven in half a dozen countries where I don’t speak the language and really never had any problems. Detours, construction zones, special speed limits, you can read all those signs without any sort of fluency.
Violet
Playing Devil’s advocate here…so why are the tests in any language at all? If the point is to see if you can drive a car safely, why are they also testing to see if you can read? You have to take a written test as well as the actual driving test, so you have to be able to read. Does that mean that if you can’t read, you can’t get a driver’s license? Why? You can most likely be a safe, competent driver and not be able to read.
Part of driving is being able to read signs. Until all signs are symbol-only, drivers need to be able to read to a certain extent. Currently road signs are in English because there’s not room to fit twelve languages on a sign and still make it readable to someone who is in a moving car. And English is our default national language. So testing a certain competency of English isn’t entirely unreasonable.
JenJen
@Ari: I would say the main reason to offer driver license testing in multiple languages is so that immigrants have a better chance at success here. For many immigrants, no ability to drive is the same as having no chance at work, all the more so outside of cities, and in places with limited public transportation, like the more rural portions of Alabama. America is, in my experience, one of those places where you need to know how to drive (and better yet, have a car) to be able to accomplish just about any daily task. In a way, driving is part of assimilation into American life.
And while what you’re saying makes sense, I’m not sure there’s any data showing those with limited English skills make poor drivers.
bemused
I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen or heard an R think about the negative financial, safety, etc consequences of their policy/law/bill actions to themselves, never mind the rest of us. It’s like they never learned about looking before you leap. I think it’s a combination of really being that ignorant and just not giving a rat’s ass.
Shalimar
Tim is more than just a stupid asshole. He is also the son of a former 2-term governor and someone who made his fortune owning garbage dumps which got great government contracts while his dad was running the state. Government is evil! Government is evil! Teabag this!
His mother is also the craziest person I have ever met, of the Apocalypse-is-coming-thank-God type of lunacy.
Toast
@Ari: I managed to drive just fine in Montreal without knowing French, and I didn’t kill any pedestrians in Italy despite not really knowing Italian. Most of the cues you need on the road you can pick up just fine without reading. Green means go; red means stop; yellow means go very fast, etc..
Joseph Nobles
@Shalimar:
I thought Tim looked like Fob enough to be his son. Jesus Christ.
Speaking of Jesus Christ, I do believe he spoke a couple of languages other than English. But then again WWJD with an Alabama driver’s license?
Violet
@JenJen:
I would be interested in this kind of data, if it exists. Where I live there are a lot of people who don’t buy insurance for their car. Sure, it’s illegal. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. If you get into an accident with one of them, it’s a nightmare, especially if the accident wasn’t your fault. I know several people who have had that happen, as well as several who have had the uninsured, non-English speakers flee the scene after the accident. That’s illegal too, but it’s probably a better option for them than being found out for being in the country illegally and driving a car without insurance.
Kristine
Given all that has happened the last nine years, the last forty years, I do not understand how this country could possibly vote Republicans back into the majority in the House or Senate. I keep reading articles stating that they would win if elections were held today, and I don’t understand. Voters’ memories are really that short? I would say that then they deserve every stupid thing that happens to them, expect that the rest of us would be dragged along for the ride.
All today’s Republican party offers is the chance to be afraid. The chance to live in fear, and despise anyone who is different. We’ll allow you that hate, and in exchange you let us fuck this country right into the ground. Fair trade, yes?
I just don’t understand. No, explanations won’t help. I’ve read all those, too. I still don’t understand.
mapaghimagisk
@Violet:
By their own logic, people without car insurance are breaking the law, and should be deported.
Other than that, I have nothing valuable to add. SAIEW.
licensed to kill time
@Paris: “Don’t drawl and drive”.
Linda Featheringill
@Hal: You may be right, but tequilla is important.
JenJen
@Violet: I carry an extra rider against uninsured drivers on my car insurance for exactly that reason; had a friend who was in a horrible accident involving an uninsured driver (full-fledged Murican too) who hit her, totaled her car and sent her to the hospital for almost a week. It was an absolute nightmare. This happened years ago and she’s still suing this woman.
Many states have driver education and licensing programs for the illiterate. I wonder if Tim James ever thought about that before.
Violet
@MikeJ:
Did you just visit those countries, or did you get a driver’s license? The requirements for driving as a visitor in any country are generally much lower – there are reciprocal understandings between countries that if you are licensed to drive in your home country then you are prepared enough to drive in the country you are visiting.
Getting a license is an entirely different matter. Even as an English speaker, I would expect to have trouble with the UK driving test. It’s much more stringent than the ones in the US. And if I tried to get a license in Portugal or China, I wouldn’t be surprised if they expected me to take the test in Portuguese or Chinese respectively.
malraux
@Violet: No, its pretty unreasonable. What english do you need to be able to read to drive? Our signs are pictorial or symbolic for a reason. At best, you might need english to grok exit signage. But the speed limit sign is universal, even if the sign is in italian.
I’ve driven in a few different countries as well. Reading the language that the stop sign is in really doesn’t matter, at least not nearly as much as remembering which side of the road to drive on.
Fern
@Violet: It takes only very limited English literacy to read traffic signs – there are lots of visual and contextual cues apart from the words. Traffic signs are deliberately designed to be easily understood, even by people who speak another language. For instance, you don’t have to be able to read to recognize a stop sign.
Literacy exists along a continuum – even people with very weak literacy skills can get by at work, find the things they need at the grocery store, and read street/traffic signs.
The barrier is being able to pass the written test and read the driver’s manual.
Back in the day when I used to be a literacy instructor, one of the first things many new readers wanted to learn to read was the driver’s manual.
Violet
@JenJen:
I do too. It’s a nightmare if it happens to you. And it’s pretty common. A family member had an accident a few years ago and the first thing everyone asks after getting through the usual “how did it happen and was everyone okay” questions, is, “Was the other driver insured?” In this case everyone was insured, and the response is always, “Wow, you’re so lucky! That never happens!” and so forth.
licensed to kill time
@malraux: Not to mention the steering wheel being in the wrong place and having to shift with your retarded left arm (well, my left arm is retarded).
ETA: Sorry, Sarah. Don’t Facebook me, man!
malraux
BTW, am I the only one thinking that the whole Guy Fawkes thing is really a very very deep cover /b/tard?
malraux
@licensed to kill time: The largest problem I had, beyond the fact that the rental was so cheap that it didn’t even include a radio, was that the shifter was set-up so that reverse was basically just to the left of first. Far too many times we went flying backwards from a stop instead of forwards.
Violet
@malraux:
See Fern’s post just below yours. She’s got a lot more experience with literacy than I do, and according to her, although it takes only a very small amount of literacy, apparently it does take some:
toujoursdan
OT but somewhat relevant, the open letter from the Arizona Hispanic Republican Caucus
Grab the popcorn and pull up a recliner. The heat from this fight will make the butter gooey soft.
JenJen
@Violet: I lived and drove all over Germany and Europe when I lived there; granted, I spoke fluent German, and had a resident driver’s license which I picked up the same day I had my visa renewed; there was no test involved.
Europe is kind of a different animal, given all those different languages; on the continent all of the signs are universal, and even when crossing borders fluency in that country’s language just isn’t necessary for driving. It’s different here, but a stop sign is a stop sign, a yield sign is a yield sign, whether you speak the language or can even read to begin with. (By the way, every stereotype you’ve ever heard about Italian drivers is 100% accurate. :-))
Think about traveling by air; I certainly don’t speak Mandarin, but I imagine I could figure out how to find ground transportation in the Beijing airport. (We all know the Moustache of Understanding has this shit down.)
Just some random thoughts strung together here. I didn’t really have a point. ;-)
malraux
@Violet: You must not speak english very well if you think her comment says that you need a good grasp of english to drive.
Joey Maloney
@Linda Featheringill: Isn’t “Tequila” Spanish for “floor-hugger”?
OK, I stole that from icanhazcheezburger.com.
Kevin Phillips Bong
The unfortunate truth is this: the next bunch of national elections will be a referendum on the electorate more than the candidates and policies. If the majority of Americans are stupid/evil/misinformed enough to vote for ideas that are obviously (to thinkers anyway) damaging to the direction of the country, then we get what we deserve. Fingers crossed that we’re not headed that way.
gwangung
The broad classes of literacy I learned was face to face literacy (being able to deal with people face to face on a daily basis), which took about two years to get, and written literacy (dealing with legal matters, written materials, etc.), which took about seven years.
They’re very different and they shouldn’t be confused. Driving, I think, falls in the face to face class. Tests fall in the second. Don’t fall into the right wing trap of conflating the two.
mai naem
Well, like us Arizonans say, thank gawd for Alabama.
Fern
Just curious, so I checked my province’s driver testing procedures. Testing is offered in 27 languages in addition to English and French. Testing can also be done orally, with or without an interpreter. Made me smile.
Smiling Mortician
I’d be a little (not much, but a little) more sympathetic about the argument that people should be literate (in English or otherwise) in order to get a driver’s license were the U.S. not a society that pretty much forces its citizens to drive. Reliable public transportation is a fantasy in much of the country. Those who can’t read, or who can’t speak English fluently, need first to be able to secure an income so they can eat and such before they can focus on self-actualization issues like academic learning (Maslow’s hierarchy and all). In much of the country, it’s impossible to hold down a job without driving. Keeping non-readers and non-English speakers from getting driver’s licenses is just another way to ensure economic devastation for “those people.”
JenJen
@Joey Maloney: Here in Cincinnati, even our flashing roadside temporary signs now give you the Spanish as well as English.
Which gets me thinking… this has nothing to do with pragmatism, or ensuring that drivers are licensed rather than not, or that they can pass a written test about safety. It has everything to do with someone getting all pissed off because on their commute home after a shitty day, they saw a sign written in both English and Spanish.
Violet
@JenJen:
I’ve lived and driven, and used public transport, in all sorts of countries: ones in which I did speak the language, ones where I didn’t, and even ones where I couldn’t read the signs at all (Chinese, among others). Major airports are usually not a problem because either someone speaks enough English to help, or the signs are in the local language and English. But it can be a problem outside of a major metropolitan area.
I’m really just playing Devil’s advocate in discussing the issue because my personal opinion is that offering drivers tests in other languages is a good thing. I also think that testing can be flawed and that you end up testing for things other than what you think you’re testing. In this case, with the written portion of the driver’s test literacy is tested first. Test-taking ability is also tested. And driving knowledge is tested last.
freelancer (itouch)
@Toast:
Eerie, I just watched Starman last night.
Fern
@Violet: The thing is, that people can easily be taught to read the (very limited) specific language needed to drive. What is much harder, and really takes a long time, is to learn the language you need to write a test. I think this constitutes an unfair barrier to workforce and social participation for immigrants – and is counterproductive to boot.
I get pissed off as well about workplace testing that requires way higher reading skills than the actual task being taught/tested.
I was also unclear in my previous comment and was conflating EAL (English as an additional language) with literacy. They are two different things.
ETA: Violet, thanks for your #52. I had misinterpreted your intent.
Violet
@malraux:
In what part of this comment of mine:
did I say a person’s grasp of English needs to be “good” to drive? I thought I was being clear that it took only a very small amount of literacy. In fact, that was my very statement. See the above quote.
Roger Moore
@Violet:
Because it’s important to test people’s knowledge of how to deal with situations that are likely to come up at some point in their time behind the wheel but not during the short time of an on-the-road test. The only practical way of testing that knowledge is by asking questions, and a written test is a good, efficient way of accomplishing that. I suppose that you could handle the small number of illiterate people with a spoken version of the same test.
Will
@toujoursdan:
Why oh why would the Arizona Hispanic Republicans not support this bill? After all, as good Republicans, they surely should understand this bill has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING HISPANIC.
dr. luba
You don’t have to be a citizen to be able to get a driver’s license. And English fluency is required for citizenship, but not for resident alien status. (I know, because my grandparents never could become US citizens for that reason, although they were productive and patriotic residents for 50+ years.)
But non-citizens need to be able to drive, legally and safely, while in the US.
There is a difference between fluency and comprehension. While my spanish is good enough that I can drive safely in spanish speaking countries (and have on many occasions), and to carry on a conversation, I don’t know that it’s good enough for me to pass a written driving test. I imagine it’s the same for many non-native English speakers in our country.
As John noted, it really is about safety first. Why is the right so willing to sacrifice our safety to their dogma?
Violet
@Fern:
I did say in my initial post at #22 that I was playing Devil’s advocate, but I think it got lost in my somewhat robust defense of the other viewpoint. So I thought I’d clarify.
I’ve got a background in this whole issue, and I’ve definitely got an opinion. I’ve discussed the non-English language issue extensively (and have gotten into it politically and via educational policy) so it’s an area I know something about. At least the second-language part. The literacy part, not so much. I think it’s important to consider all sides because just calling the other side “racists” or whatever isn’t going to address underlying issues and fears, nor is it going to change things.
Yeah, me too. This is a real problem and is especially an issue with the written driver’s test.
Exactly. The difference between ESL/EAL and literacy in any language is huge. You have two very different levels of students with these two groups, but they all get lumped together as “non-English speakers.”
Jules
The face of the new Klan.
Sasha
I drove in Japan for several years. As a member of the military, all I had to do was pass a sign recognition test. The test was in English. I don’t remember it at all so it couldn’t have been very difficult. The whole process took less than an hour or so and voila, I was licensed to drive in Japan! They drive on the left, by the way, and all the signs are in Kanji which I can’t read at all and never could. To get anywhere, the Morale Dept printed up directions that included lines like, ” you will see a seven-eleven on your left, turn right at the 3rd light after the seven-eleven”. Sadly, you were left to your own devices to get back to the base.
The safety issue is a canard. This is yet another attack on Hispanic people.
Violet
@Roger Moore:
Good point. I wonder if an interview style test is offering in many states. If any. I have never checked.
Island in Alabama
“Public Safety”, because Jim Crow is so last week
Roger Moore
@Fern:
California has you beat. We offer testing in 32 languages besides English. I was a bit surprised to see that none of them are Native American.
Redshift
@Violet: I suspect that has more to do with cost/effort than with which is the more effective at testing the target skills. One person with minimal qualifications can test a whole room full of people with a written test, and that weeds out the people who don’t know enough to move on to the practical test and take the individual time of a more trained road tester.
Roger Moore
@Sasha:
My understanding is that in Tokyo, at least, that’s the way everyone does it. There’s absolutely no rhyme or reason to the city layout, and most of the minor streets aren’t even named. An address- which is usually just a district, block number, and house number- doesn’t tell you much without a detailed map.
Redshift
Sadly, the jackass reminds me a lot of Bob McDonnell, though he had to disguise his wingnuttery to win in Virginia, an extra effort which is unnecessary in Alabama.
Tunch
Cole, open me a can of fucking tuna fish already. I’m fucking hungry.
I think this James guy thinks his shit is superior to everyone else’s shit.
Citizen_X
Maybe it’s the businessman in me, but it seems like a policy of “THIS HERE’S ALYBAMY. WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE. GIT IT, SANCHEZ? IF’N YOU DON’T, STAY RIGHT THE HELL OUT” is gonna play hell with the local tourist industry.
And my personal response is “Damn, that’s two states I gotta avoid now.”
Tunch
And, ironically, “The word Alabama is believed to have originated from the Choctaw language[8] and was later adopted by the Alabama tribe as their name.[9]”
Sly
I guess pressing “1” for English is really annoying for some people.
The cost of printing government forms in multiple languages is minimal, and if the state of Alabama wants to save money, they should probably look at the bigger ticket items on their budget. According to documents on AL’s Legislative Fiscal Office website, that is far and away the budget for the state’s Corrections Department, which has ballooned in recent years to deal with an overcrowding crises in the state’s prison system.
But thats what you get when your prison population has quadrupled over the past 25 years while your state population has only gone up 20% in the same period. Wanna save money? Stop throwing so many fucking people in jail.
kay
@Will:
I see your point, but it’s actually worse than that. Remember 2006? The conventional wisdom was that the Republican base had tapped into this very resonant issue with anti-immigration rhetoric, and that was how they were going to limit losses in 2006.
Democrats were hand-wringing over it (of course). Immigration was this “sleeper” issue that the wise and all-knowing everyman in the GOP base had identified.
I know you remember the “grass roots victory” for the GOP base in blocking immigration reform. The base threatened the GOP Congress on immigration reform, and it worked.
The idea was that Hispanics wouldn’t turn out in a midterm.
Except they did. And of the 15 GOP House candidates who ran on an anti-immigration message in 2006, 13 lost. The more moderate candidates ON IMMIGRATION won.
It was a losing issue for Republicans in 2006, and THAT was widely reported.
He’s managed to turn that on its head, and say that Bush’s PRO reform stance hurt them.
That isn’t what happened.
I don’t know what will happen in 2010, but the conventional wisdom AND the Republican base were wrong on the politics of immigration in 2006, and George W Bush was right. That’s just a fact.
BH
This is one hell of a parody. Right? Right? Hello?
Svensker
@Kevin Phillips Bong:
8 years of George “the anti-Midas” Bush and Obama didn’t win in the biggest landslide in history? We are headed that way.
Pasquinade
Woodrowfan
What is it with states starting with the letter “A”? Alaska, Arizona, Alabama… what’s Arkansas been up to??
Hal
@76
I remember watching someone from the old LA Law TV show being interviewed years ago saying how every time they had an interracial love story, they always received hate mail from Alabama. The only time I was ever pulled over on the highway and asked if I had any guns/drugs, and had my car searched (I agreed to the search), was in Alabama. I should say the cop was nice enough to let me know that he did that to everybody though, not just me, so I shouldn’t be offended.
Suffice it to say, my opinion of Alabama is pretty low.
Will
@kay:
You’re absolutely right–George Bush was right on the politics of immigration reform. He just didn’t have the right base of supporters for that issue.
It’s one thing to push legislation that will benefit those more likely (but not guaranteed) to vote for you. It’s quite another to push legislation that will benefit those who will possibly (but less than likely) vote for you. And to double down on pushing legislation that will strongly alienate those who would normally be most likely to vote for you–well, that can add up to political suicide.
d.s.
I hate when people pronounce it ing-lish instead of ing-glish.
I seriously doubt Alabama DMVs hire interpreters for 12 different languages.
He’s probably talking about the multiple choice written exams. Since they already have exams in 12 different languages on file, it will save approximately $0 getting rid of 11 of them.
Rathskeller
I’m disappointed that so many people only thought as far as the part where signs are pretty similar around the world. Driver information should be in all the appropriate languages for education of the drivers:
– what is the speed limit when you don’t see a sign?
– what do you do after an accident?
– what do you do when an emergency vehicle approaches?
– what are safe driving practices?
– can you turn right on a red light?
– when can you turn left on a red light?
– can you pass on the right?
– can motorcycles split lanes?
– what do you do when there’s a stopped car on the side of the road?
All of these have different answers in different cities and states in the U.S., much less around the world. Were I stuck living in Alabama, I would want my other drivers educated in a similar way.
Citizen Alan
@Will:
Well, Hindrocket’s a fucking dolt, but he’s essentially right on this point. I’ve always believed that if Bush could have threaded the needle on immigration and found a compromise that would have pleased both nativist xenophobes and cheap-labor plutocrats, he’d have probably left office with an approval rating in the low to mid 40’s. But he couldn’t since that’s an impossible needle to thread, so he chose the plutocrats because, well, he is one. I agree with the rest of your post.
kay
@Will:
I think Bush was purely political. I think there is a myth that he wasn’t, advanced by him, actually. I think he was a third generation politician who knew he got 44% of the Hispanic vote in 2004, and wanted to retain that number for Republicans.
That he failed, politically, doesn’t mean he didn’t try. H emay have had other reasons for supporting immigration reform (he’s a free trader, for example, and labor is just another commodity) but he also thought it was good politics.
It used to scare the hell out of me when liberals would tell me in 2008 that Obama would be great at running the country because he ran a good campaign, or that Hillary wasn’t going to be good at governing at because she ran a crappy one.
George W Bush ran stellar campaigns. It’s ALL he did well.
p.a.
schweet. but it should really be ‘Vote Republican- We’re Stupid White Assholes Just Like You!’
Citizen Alan
@kay:
I don’t personally remember Bush running very effect campaigns. They were better than the Gore and Kerry campaigns, but that’s pretty faint praise. I also remember that it didn’t really matter who had the best campaign when the media was eager to pounce on trivial missteps (some of which were completely imaginary) by the Democrats, while steadfastly ignoring those made by Bush. I was dumbstruck during one of the 2004 debates when Bush flat-out denied saying that he didn’t think catching bin Laden was important — even though it was on tape! — and all the media wanted to talk about was Kerry’s egregious faux pas in mentioning that Mary Cheney was gay, when she’d been out for 10 years and was employed as a gay-outreach person for a beer company.
mclaren
That was the GOP slogan in the 1980 presidential election, and the Republicans won by a landslide.
Obama is telling the American people a whole bunch of things they don’t want to hear — cleaning up this financial mess will be long and costly, reforming America’s broken health care system will take a long time and a lot of work, the problems we face are complex not simple, and we need to make some hard choices.
Carter told Americans a whole bunch of things they didn’t want to hear back in 1979 and the American people banged their little spoons on their high chairs like a bunch of spoiled 3-year-olds and elected Ronald Reagan.
Twice.
kay
@Citizen Alan:
I disagree. I was in Ohio and they did a really beautiful job. I loathed them, but I knew they were going to win. I remember one thing in particular. Bush would hold a rally in a large Ohio city. He would invite select (adoring) individuals from rural areas, invite them “backstage” and take a picture with them. In my town, he invited a local teacher who is married to the high school football coach. That individual would then submit the unique picture to the local paper, with a first-person account of his wonderfulness. It was if he went to every small town in Ohio. He was on every front page. Just really smart. It was fucking heartbreaking to watch, if you really wanted him to lose, and I did. I stood outside a GM plant in the next county over and handed out Kerry lit, and I’m convinced half of the UAW I spoke with voted for Bush. They weren’t even making eye contact.
I spent a lot of time in western Michigan, in that period. I thought they were competitive in that state, in 2004. They worked their asses off. They were everywhere.
YellowJournalism
Too bad most of his constituents wouldn’t pass the English language equivalency tests in his state.
kay
I know this is a very serious issue, but this just made me laugh:
He’s basically a mental case. He doesn’t know where the hell he is on immigration or anything else, but he knows (multiple of 1,000) troops are the cure for any problem.
I’m surprised he didn’t call for troops to solve the economic crisis, I really am.
kay
@Citizen Alan:
I agree with all that about the media, but I think it mattered who had the best campaign. Bush did.
I liked the Kerry people a lot, by the way. They worked really hard here, and they were very effective at reaching younger voters. I believe they laid the groundwork for Obama. Kerry doesn’t get enough credit for that, but he seems like the kind of person who doesn’t get enough credit for a lot of things, doesn’t he? He’s head and shoulders a better and more graceful LOSER than McCain, for example.
russell
Don’t like people whose first language is Spanish?
Pick your own damned vegetables.
Clean your own damned office.
Mow your own f***king lawn.
Quit your damned job and watch your own f***king kids.
@sshole.
Little Dreamer
@El Cid:
I’m wondering if this is a good time to ask you if you’ve considered the correlation between vampirism and the Christian ritual of transubstantiation (along with the idea that their savior Jesus gets crucified, and rises again after three days every damned year like clockwork?)
d.s.
Kerry didn’t run a bad campaign. Beating an incumbent while the economy is growing is hard. He came close. An Obama wouldn’t have won in 2004 either.
The media followed the Republican cue and pumped the Swift Boats, which were just a small ad buy, and turned it into a national controversy. There’s not much you can do when that happens. Once scurrilous accusations against you are being debated, you’ve already lost something.
The Gore campaign was the debacle. It wasn’t until the last few weeks that they tried to draw strong distinctions between Bush and Gore (“People vs. the Powerful”), and by that time self-destructive lefties had moved to the Nader candidacy and voters in the middle bought into “compassionate conservatism.”
They needed to slam Bush as a crazed right-winger who would slash Social Security, but for most of the campaign their message was “Bush is dumb” and “our prescription drug plan is better than his.”
Clinton was way harder on Bob Dole. The Gore campaign needed to ignore all the media whining about “GORE LIES!!!!!111111 GORE IS A PHONY” and just run 75% negative ads against Bush from the beginning. The media would have bitched and moaned, but it would have worked.
Citizen Alan
@d.s.:
Maybe. For me, the defining moment of the 2000 campaign was a Jack Germond column not long before the election. Gore, speaking at a rally, made the fairly innocuous comment that a rally he was speaking at was “one of the largest” he had attended thus far. Germond, who at this point was a pitiful senile old fool IMO, interviewed some Gore personnel who told them that there had been a few Gore rallies which were, in fact, larger. And based on that, Germond concluded that Gore was literally a compulsive liar, even though the statement Gore made was in no way contradictory to the statement made by the Gore personnel. It was at that moment that I realized that journalism had failed as a political force in America, where even the ostensibly liberal commentators were reflexively pro-Republican if it fit the approved media narrative.
Montana
Arizona can pass race base laws, pass Birthers laws and the state can continue to boycott Martin Luther King Day, well the rest of the Country can boycott the state of Arizona and spank them where it hurts them the most their pocket book. Their phony patriotism is sickening, they are just racists going by another name. We all know you are just itching to put a sheet on their head? Let’s face it the Republicans had eight years to deal with health care, immigration, climate change and financial oversight and governance and they failed. It appears that the Republican Party is only good at starting wars (two in eight years, with fat War profiteering contracts to friends of Cheney/Bush) but not at winning wars as seen by the continuing line of body bags that keep coming home. The Republicans party will continue turned inward to their old fashion obstructionist party (and their Confederacy appreciation roots) because they continue to allow a small portions (but very loud portion) of their party of “birthers, baggers and blowhards” to rule their party. I will admit that this fringe is very good at playing “Follow the Leader” by listening to their dullard leaders, Beck, Hedgecock, Hannity, O’Reilly, Rush, Savage, Sarah Bailin, Orly Taitz, Victoria Jackson, Michele Bachmann and the rest of the Blowhards and acting as ill programmed robots (they have already acted against doctors that perform abortions). The Birthers and the Tea party crowd think they can scare, intimidate and force others to go along with them by comments like “This time we came unarmed”, let me tell you something not all ex-military join the fringe militia crazies who don’t pay taxes and run around with face paint in the parks playing commando, the majority are mature and understand that the world is more complicated and grey than the black and white that these simpleton make it out to be and that my friend is the point. The world is complicated and people like Hamilton, Lincoln, and Roosevelt believed that we should use government a little to increase social mobility, now it’s about dancing around the claim of government is the problem. The sainted Reagan passed the biggest tax increase in American history and as a result federal employment increased, but facts are lost when mired in mysticism and superstition. For a party that gave us Abraham Lincoln, it is tragic that the ranks are filled with too many empty suits and the crazy Birthers who have not learned that the way our courts work is that you get a competent lawyer, verifiable facts and present them to a judge, if the facts are real and not half baked internet lies, then, and only then, do you proceed to trial. The Birthers seem to be having a problem with their so called “facts”. Let’s face it no one will take the Birthers seriously until they win a case, but until then, you will continue to appear dumb, crazy or racist, or maybe all three. I heard that Orly Taitz now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC), she wants to re-establish a family values party, that’s like saying that the Catholic Church cares about the welling being of children in their care, too late for that.