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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Come on, man.

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You are here: Home / Science & Technology / More Shrill Environmentalism

More Shrill Environmentalism

by @heymistermix.com|  May 5, 20106:54 am| 56 Comments

This post is in: Science & Technology

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In case you haven’t already started mixing your morning bloody mary, here’s some inspiration:

While the initial effects of the massive Gulf Coast oil leak could be devastating to coastal wetlands and beaches, the subsequent cleanup could be even more damaging to the sensitive ecosystems, says a wetlands expert at Indiana University.

And then there’s this:

The chemicals BP is now relying on to break up the steady flow of leaking oil from deep below the Gulf of Mexico could create a new set of environmental problems.

[…]

The exact makeup of the dispersants is kept secret under competitive trade laws, but a worker safety sheet for one product, called Corexit, says it includes 2-butoxyethanol, a compound associated with headaches, vomiting and reproductive problems at high doses.

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56Comments

  1. 1.

    Rosalita

    May 5, 2010 at 7:00 am

    Jeebus, any more good news from BJ front pagers about poisoning this morning? Hope my coffee beans at least are untainted…

  2. 2.

    Steeplejack

    May 5, 2010 at 7:02 am

    This is timely. I had been wondering about the composition of the chemicals they were going to use in the “cleanup.” Based on the reasons that B.P. is in the situation that requires their use, there is absolutely no reason to expect that B.P. has done any due diligence or research to investigate potential problems down the road. After all, what could go wrong? Good times.

    Okay, pass the bloody mary–and hold the tomato juice.

  3. 3.

    MikeJ

    May 5, 2010 at 7:15 am

    Of course Rush insists that if you do nothing mother ocean will cleanse herself. Who knew he was such a DFH?

  4. 4.

    cleek

    May 5, 2010 at 7:18 am

    There was an old planet who swallowed some oil,
    I don’t know why she swallowed some oil,
    Perhaps she’ll die.

    There was an old planet who evolved some people,
    Who ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her
    She evolved the people to catch the oil,
    I don’t know why she swallowed the oil,
    Perhaps she’ll die.

    There was an old planet who got pierced with a well,
    How absurd! to get pierced with a well,
    She got pierced with the well by the people she evolved,
    Who ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her,
    She evolved the people to catch the oil,
    I don’t know why she swallowed the oil,
    Perhaps she’ll die.

    etc

    it’s too early for this stuff

  5. 5.

    mai naem

    May 5, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Anybody wonder why the Dick Whisperer hasn’t talked to The Dick about the oil spill? You would think Milbank would want to talk to an oil expert like Dick Cheney about this huge story.

  6. 6.

    Perfect Tommy

    May 5, 2010 at 7:29 am

    I’m not sure that this application at the well head is a good idea. Dispersants work by reducing the drop size of the oil, thereby enhancing evaporation of the volatiles and enhancing photodegradation of the oil.

    The rate at which oil rises in the water column is a function of the relative specific gravity of the oil and the square of the drop size. By reducing the drop size underwater, they are slowing the ascent rate of the oil. This allows it to be advected by subsurface currents and delays its arrival on the surface.

  7. 7.

    Michael D.

    May 5, 2010 at 7:30 am

    And what do these dispersants do?

    They clump oil together and make it sink to the bottom of the sea – where it sits and kills…

    …but it does it out of sight.

  8. 8.

    Linda Featheringill

    May 5, 2010 at 7:38 am

    I rather assumed that the dispersants used on the oil would have lots of side effects. Burning the stuff will have unwanted effects, too. Damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

    We should have one of the cofferdams on site by now, although it is not yet in place. That may take a couple of days to install. These will probably not work 100% to catch the outflow of oil but they might control most of it.

    Even when we get to the point where we are scooping up the “mousse” that is left of the spill, and we are not there by a long shot yet, what are we going to do with the stuff?

    Looking at the facts head on is just too hard. I may have to add some reality-benders to my morning meds. .

  9. 9.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    May 5, 2010 at 7:39 am

    So they’re trying to break the oil down to small enough drops so that they can then drown them in a bathtub.

    I wonder why I feel less reassured about this every day.

  10. 10.

    Earl

    May 5, 2010 at 7:39 am

    And it’s worse when I try to remember
    When I think about then and now
    I’d rather see it on the news at eleven
    Sit back, and watch it run straight down

    Run straight down

    I’m in a Zevon mood this morning, thanks!

  11. 11.

    Perfect Tommy

    May 5, 2010 at 7:41 am

    Latest word from NOAA : ” Remotely Operated Vehicles (ROVs) cut off a section at the end of the riser pipe, which used to lead from the well to the rig, and capped it with a valve. While this stopped one of the three leaks, oil continues to enter the Gulf of Mexico at a rate of approximately 5000 barrels (210,000 gallons) per day.”

  12. 12.

    Linda Featheringill

    May 5, 2010 at 7:44 am

    By the way, Happy Cinco de Mayo everyone.

    And to a smaller group, today is Chuck’s birthday, he of Chuck-and-Fred fame.

    Cheers.

  13. 13.

    stuckinred

    May 5, 2010 at 7:46 am

    T Boone says shut the fuck up.

  14. 14.

    Perfect Tommy

    May 5, 2010 at 7:49 am

    @Linda Featheringill:
    If you want the details on dispersants and their toxicological effects, NAP has a book online:
    Oil Spill Dispersants: Efficacy and Effects
    You can read it on-line free of charge.

  15. 15.

    cat48

    May 5, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Someone asked about Dick Cheney………..

    Per FP, he was visiting with King Abdullah in Saudi for some unknown reason.

  16. 16.

    bkny

    May 5, 2010 at 7:54 am

    @mai naem:

    at least mikey allen should have some insightful comments from darth cheney. but, i guess, they’re too busy pushing the obama’s katrina meme….

  17. 17.

    hilzoy fangirl

    May 5, 2010 at 7:56 am

    So when do we start the cleanup of the cleanup? Never? Oh…

  18. 18.

    ChockFullO'Nuts

    May 5, 2010 at 8:07 am

    This is the oil spill off the California coast that gave us Earth Day.

    It was 1969, and the talk on the street was that offshore oil drilling was too risky, the cost of an accident too high, to do much of this in the future.

    Forty years later, it would seem that not much has changed.

    —// excerpt from the site lined above:

    What Went Wrong?

    Union Oil’s Platform A ruptured because of inadequate protective casing. The oil company had been given permission by the U.S. Geological Survey to cut corners and operate the platform with casings below federal and California standards. Investigators would later determine that more steel pipe sheating inside the drilling hole would have prevented the rupture.

    Because the oil rig was beyond California’s three-mile coastal zone, the rig did not have to comply with state standards. At the time, California drilling regulations were far more rigid those implied by the federal government.

    Aftermath

    In the spring following the oil spill, Earth Day was born nationwide. Many consider the publicity surrounding the oil spill a major impetus to the environmental movement.

    Only days after the spill began, Get Oil Out (GOO) was founded in Santa Barbara. Founder Bud Bottoms urged the public to cut down on driving, burn oil company credit cards and boycott gas stations associated with offshore drilling companies. Volunteers helped the organization gather 100,000 signatures on a petition banning offshore oil drilling. While drilling was only halted temporarily, laws were passed to strengthen offshore drilling regulations. Union Oil suffered millions in losses from the clean-up efforts, payments to fishermen and local businesses, and lawsuit settlements. But maybe worse, the reputation of the oil industry was forever tarnished.

    —// end excerpt

    I have no further comment until I hear what BOB has to say.

    update, I found this quote at the bottom of the story and thought you’d get a kick:

    Fred L. Hartley, president of Union Oil Co.:
    “I don’t like to call it a disaster,” because there has been no loss of human life.
    “I am amazed at the publicity for the loss of a few birds.”

  19. 19.

    beltane

    May 5, 2010 at 8:10 am

    @cat48: Up to no good, as always.

  20. 20.

    Kirk Spencer

    May 5, 2010 at 8:12 am

    Simultaneous good news and bad news with one word: Ixtoc.

    Ixtoc, the second largest oil spill on record (so far). Ixtoc was also in the gulf. Yes, the majority of the oil that hit the US made landfall in Texas, but there was a fair amount that circled the gulf and hit the rest of the shores.

    We got it cleaned up. It cost a lot. It didn’t kill us, but it hurt.

    I think a serious look at Ixtoc is necessary for anyone trying to project the consequences of Deepwater.

  21. 21.

    fucen tarmal

    May 5, 2010 at 8:12 am

    irish coffee here. its got all the balanced nutrition to start your day, caffeine(malabar monsoon), alcohol(bushmills whiskey) sugar (demerara unrefined brown), fat (heavy cream)…

    its all the food groups you need and none of the ones “they” tell you you should have.

    i’m sure this clean-up effort, and all the “damage the clean up itself caused, because you know oil is natural, that chemical goop isn’t” will be enmeshed in the obama’s katrina forced narrative from the echochamber. i really wish there were oil sucking leeches or something, maybe we should have bailed out enron….

    coffee’s ready!

  22. 22.

    Linda Featheringill

    May 5, 2010 at 8:15 am

    @Perfect Tommy: Thanks for the referral. I will look into that – probably this evening.

  23. 23.

    ChockFullO'Nuts

    May 5, 2010 at 8:17 am

    @Kirk Spencer:

    Ixtoc is an anagram for Toxic.

    I like that.

  24. 24.

    David

    May 5, 2010 at 8:24 am

    The BBC is reporting that BP is trying to put a giant dome over the gusher with a hose attached to it in order to syphon the oil into a cargo ship.

  25. 25.

    SapphireCate

    May 5, 2010 at 8:26 am

    OT: Peak wing nut achieved?

  26. 26.

    ET

    May 5, 2010 at 8:27 am

    And hey, from what I was reading the Carolinas could see some because of the Gulf Loop Current.

  27. 27.

    Brian J

    May 5, 2010 at 8:28 am

    In legitimately good news, ADP is projecting an increase of 32,000 jobs for April. March’s estimate was also revised upwards, from a loss of 23,000 to a gain of 19,000. I’m curious to see what the official government projections are.

    I know, I know, it’s not nearly large enough, but at least we are adding jobs.

  28. 28.

    xephyr

    May 5, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Good lord, what a species of dangerous idiots we are.

  29. 29.

    jwb

    May 5, 2010 at 8:51 am

    @SapphireCate: Given its influence, I’m always shocked at just how small the audience for cable news actually is.

  30. 30.

    cmorenc

    May 5, 2010 at 9:07 am

    @jwb:
    That a solid majority of the voting population are too busy/distracted/disinterested in following even cable-channel news is at best, a mixed blessing. Most of those folks aren’t skipping out on cable channel “news” to read quality print media, e.g. the New York Times – instead if they regularly follow print media, it’s likely some very low-quality local paper which has the news nutritional content of a small lollipop. Or, they’ll intermittently, briefly tune into the news highlights on some teevee channel or the hourly news on radio or quickly surf some internet news feed on their way to more salacious or interesting entertainment fare.

    This is a huge part of the reason a substantial slice of the electorate seems willing to consider voting for the GOP candidate for congress or US Senate in 2010, despite the recent disasterous experience the last time around. There’s very little substantive memory or awareness – it’s all about voting out the incumbents, who (whomever they are) are seen as the source of the problems. Never mind that the people they vote for in protest are far more toxic than the people they would replace, and are in fact allied with those whose goal has been to tie up government to make it look haplessly ineffective.

    You can thank the fascination of much of the voting electorate with piffle like “Dancing With the Stars” or “American Idol” for the kind of corrupt, inept clowns that form too large a portion of Congress, not just GOP but Dem as well.

  31. 31.

    kuvasz

    May 5, 2010 at 9:10 am

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol

    It is also referred to in the chemical industry as “butyl cellosolve.”

    I dont quite know why they are using a fairly toxic glycol ether when propylene glycol ethers which are more safe are readily available.

    Most of you have actually smelled “butyl cellosolve” since it is still in use as a hydrotrope for hard surface cleaners. It is that sickly sweet odor akin to rubbing alcohol one smells when you come across a freshly scrubbed floor.

  32. 32.

    Peter J

    May 5, 2010 at 9:38 am

    The exact makeup of the dispersants is kept secret under competitive trade laws, but a worker safety sheet for one product, called Corexit, says it includes 2-butoxyethanol, a compound associated with headaches, vomiting and reproductive problems at high doses.

    This is obviously being masterminded by Obama to depopulate a number of Southern States. I bet there was some coded language in his speech a couple of weeks ago to warn minorities to get the fuck out of the south, and keep away from the water.

    /wingnut off

  33. 33.

    AhabTRuler

    May 5, 2010 at 9:42 am

    You cannot siphon liquids frm the bottom of the ocean to the surface. The process actually depends on the oil displacing to the surface due to the difference in density and achimny effec in the drilling riser used to direct the oil to the surface. Any natural gas that remains dissolved in the oil & water should act as an assist, but it is all very speculative at such depth.

  34. 34.

    artem1s

    May 5, 2010 at 9:52 am

    @Michael D.:

    you betcha!

    some good news, Davis Besse won’t be starting up again until at least July. That reactor head just keeps springing unprecedented leaks! whocoulddaknown?

  35. 35.

    J

    May 5, 2010 at 10:17 am

    I was toiling through Thomas Friedman’s column this morning when I got stuck at this infuriating bit:

    ‘But it means that we have to stop messing around with idiotic “drill, baby drill” nostrums, feel-good Earth Day concerts…”.

    Must everything advocated by a mainstream pundit be framed as a middle way between extremes of left and right, however false the equivalence?

    Is reflexive hippy-bashing a necessary condition to being a ‘serious’ person?

    Alas, the answer to both questions is surely ‘yes’.

  36. 36.

    Mike in NC

    May 5, 2010 at 10:24 am

    The Invisible Hand of the Free Market will take care of all of this.

  37. 37.

    Tom in TN

    May 5, 2010 at 10:52 am

    @Peter J: Fortunately, 2-butoxyethanol degrades rapidly (75% gone in 2 days) in the environment, so there is no risk at all to anybody from it. It’s going to be dispersed and degraded quite quickly.

    Probably 95% of all known compounds will produce “headaches, vomiting, and reproductive problems” at high doses. The volume of 2-BE being injected compared to the volume of the Gulf of Mexico is quite small, so no one (not even the fishies) will get anything more than a trace exposure to it – you’d get a far greater exposure while cleaning your floors.

  38. 38.

    wrb

    May 5, 2010 at 10:53 am

    @Perfect Tommy:

    The rate at which oil rises in the water column is a function of the relative specific gravity of the oil and the square of the drop size. By reducing the drop size underwater, they are slowing the ascent rate of the oil. This allows it to be advected by subsurface currents and delays its arrival on the surface.

    Exactly.

    It would seem that the effect of adding the additional poison would be to keep the oil underwater , hiding the size of the spill, but keeping it in the ocean longer.

  39. 39.

    Hob

    May 5, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Here’s a comic about people destroying the environment.

  40. 40.

    Tom in TN

    May 5, 2010 at 11:16 am

    @wrb: If your goal is to keep it from getting to shore so it won’t kill birds and destroy fragile wetlands, then keeping it in the ocean seems like a good plan. There’s far less life at the bottom of the Gulf than in a coastal estuary.

    The oil is gushing out, something’s going to get hurt from it. It’s a triage situation, basically, trying to minimize the damage. There is no “good” solution, only varying degrees of bad.

  41. 41.

    de stijl

    May 5, 2010 at 11:27 am

    @Perfect Tommy:

    Hey, you changed your handle! I was only making a joke based on Buckaroo Banzai; it wasn’t like I was giving you an order or anything.

    (assuming you used to be known as “Tommy”)

  42. 42.

    Rick Taylor

    May 5, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    The exact makeup of the dispersants is kept secret under competitive trade laws,

    __
    What the hell?!?!?

  43. 43.

    Perfect Tommy

    May 5, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    @de stijl:
    I liked the idea : ) Tommy was too generic … Thanks for the inspiration.

  44. 44.

    Zuzu's Petals

    May 5, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    @AhabTRuler:

    Hey, Ahab. Found a good discussion of the topic here, if you haven’t seen it.

    They also have a detailed breakdown of the entire event here.

  45. 45.

    de stijl

    May 5, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    @Perfect Tommy:

    The ganglia twitch!

  46. 46.

    BobS

    May 5, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    @cmorenc: On my way to the bathroom yesterday in our ER employee lounge, I paused in front of the TV to watch a news story that was playing about the spill. One of our nurse practitioners walked in (that’s a Masters level profession) and asked me “where’s that?”. When I replied it was about the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, she had no idea what I was talking about. This is a smart and reliable young woman who is very good at her job. I found similar ignorance of current events widespread among the staff during the ongoing health insurance reform process, something you would think would be of particular interest to doctors and nurses. We seem to have become a society of technicians with little interest in events beyond what we do for a paycheck and entertainment.
    Thank you for the link to Futurity. I hadn’t seen it before but it’s now bookmarked and will be a daily read.

  47. 47.

    ruemara

    May 5, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Going back to bed. Looks like we’re still too stupid to live.

  48. 48.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    May 5, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    @J:

    Must everything advocated by a mainstream pundit be framed as a middle way between extremes of left and right, however false the equivalence?

    I wonder how these folks would have coped with trying to write about WW2 while it was happening, i.e. while the Russians were our allies. Imagine a Thomas Friedman column about the Battle of Stalingrad: The City is Flat, etc..

  49. 49.

    AhabTRuler

    May 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Zuzu’s : will check out. Thx.

  50. 50.

    BruinKid

    May 5, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Fine. Just make the executives at BP the ones who personally administer those harmful chemicals. Let them “enjoy” the fruits of their labors.

  51. 51.

    Zuzu's Petals

    May 5, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    @AhabTRuler:

    Disclaimer: I’ve only been reading it for the technical stuff. No idea what their policy views really are, though the commenters seem to be all over the place.

  52. 52.

    AhabTRuler

    May 5, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Good technical & nothing that appears to dogmatic. And we all know the standard caveat for commentors. ;-{)>

  53. 53.

    soily

    May 5, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Wow, my comment got deleted! What’s up with that? I didn’t say anything outrageous, except fuck Monsanto.

  54. 54.

    VetChemRep

    May 5, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    This chemical is literally in every water based light, medium and heavy degreaser sold and produced over the last 20 years.

    I wouldn’t want to take a bath in it and it is definitely not good for pregnant women. But please keep in mind this is a raw material people in contact with literally every day. The good thing though is that it also naturally degrades with time. So the combination of the two evils is in fact better than doing nothing.

  55. 55.

    Zuzu's Petals

    May 5, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    @AhabTRuler:

    Based on the anecdotal evidence in the comments, it seems they are thinking the blowout was caused either by porous/gaseous cement or under balanced mud. I wonder if the two are mutually exclusive?

  56. 56.

    Quiddity

    May 5, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    2-butoxyethanol is good for you. I add it to my breakfast cereal every morning. And I’m better for it. In fact a nol bohxc l;gbhboe onbsovh wp[phbl.-*&^$”tvtr e76#$*0nofc 987tt

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