And it looks like Alan Mollohan, one of Stupak’s abortion holdouts on HCR, is going to lose the primary to someone hitting him from the right, Mike Oliverio. Oliverio is pro-life, anti-cap and trade, and so on. Right now, 49% of the precincts are in and Oliverio has it 56-44.
So far, David McKinley is far ahead of Minear and Warner for the Republicans. Minear and Warner are both from the Glenn Beck/teabagger/Limbaugh wing.
I would bet if it is a McKinley v. Oliverio match-up, McKinley would have a solid chance at making himself the second of three Republican Reps. from WV (assuming Capito coasts to victory). This state is getting redder every year, and I think this district went to McCain in the general, and McKinley has a really solid base of support in the Northern panhandle. He’s also smoother than the more wooden Oliverio, and there will be so few issues separating them.
*** Update ***
Just realized- for the first time in my life I will have a Congressman not named Mollohan. Alan took the seat after his father Bob retired, and he had held the seat from 1969-1983.
Davis X. Machina
Not surprising now, wouldn’t be surprising in November.
I would think the Arizona Agenda would pull lot of votes in WVa… and may be necessary. If you want to make the Upper Branch Mine disaster disappear stage left, you need a big bang and cloud of smoke stage left. When’s the statehouse up for grabs next?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
So is my home state of Kentucky. I feel lucky to live in Vermont on the Rio Grande. Albeit sandwiched between two tea bag insane asylums. Though hard as they try, They can’t break through our cosmic vibes of love.
Comrade Kevin
I’m just happy that I live in such a blue district (California’s 14th). My rep got 70% of the vote in 2008.
Quiddity
John writes, “This state is getting redder every year”.
There’s a lot of that going around. What surprises me is how quickly people forget how much they disliked Bush/Republicans in 2008. Are people ready to rush back to that brand so soon? And why? Obama and the Democrats haven’t been stellar, but they’ve been reasonably competent and they certainly aren’t radical.
Is this a sign of the success of Fox “News”, et al?
(BTW, I think there is a lot of anti-incumbent feeling out there, so that may make the Republicans-rising narrative less than it seems.)
mai naem
Don’t know a whole lot about W.Va politics but does this getting redder bit mean they like the lack of mine regulation?
Davis X. Machina
A small price to pay — and paid by someone else — to be saved from the Mexicans, and the ghey.
Live is a series of trade-offs.
Ocotillo
So one clown supports Stupak, the primary challenger is even further to the right and of course the GOPers stand to gain because given the choice between a Republican and a pretend Republican, the voters will choose the real thing every time.
Bill
But isn’t Manchin a pretend repub too?
Keith G
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Now, now. Texas is a big place so there is room for lots of clowns. I live in Houston. Our county, Harris, has a larger population than 23 states, including yours.
Yeah, we have our freaks, but their density in the general population is lower than in many other infested states. Hardly an asylum.
Tom Q
Given Mollohan’s serious ethics issues, I can understand why he’s having trouble in the primary — but Dem voters were pretty much given a Hobson’s choice, with Oliverio’s positions. I can easily see this seat flipping in November.
West Virginia (the state of my birth) stayed with the Dems from FDR through Clinton except in landslides; even Dukakis carried it, and Carter took it both times. But apparently guns and the environment have turned the tide — Gore lost it, Kerry lost it by alot, and Barack might as well not have shown up.
Punchy
Hey, I’m pro-life, too. But if you’re referring to abortion, call it what it is–anti-abortion, anti-choice, or we-hate-women. Any of those are a more appropriate tag for those neanderthals.
Backbencher
I think an important question is does the DCCC and other Democratic leaders support Oliverio? We will see if there are some stances that Democratic leaders are unwilling to stomach.
Gozer
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I hear ya, my home area of Louisiana has given this great country David Duke, David Vitter, and Bobby Jindal. That’s some high-power, weapons-grade wingnut right there.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Keith G: Yes, I am aware that some spots in east TX are something like Islands of sanity. I was speaking mainly of west TX, that has creeped over and is occupying the SE corner of our state. I give them no quarter, crazy mofo’s, sorry.
MikeJ
@Davis X. Machina:
What about The Pill versus The Springhill Mine Disaster?
Davis X. Machina
Thomas Franks, armed with a Prius, could have written What’s the Matter With
KansasWest Virginia, saved a bundle on airfare, been home for dinner every night, and reduced his carbon footprint all in one fell swoop.Martin
@Davis X. Machina:
Fixed for logical conclusion.
Nick
@Quiddity:
It’s West Virginia and Mollohan voted with the black muslim kenyan usurper.
Let’s face it, Mollohan would still have a job if Hillary Clinton was President and there’s a good chance Shelley Moore Capito wouldn’t.
Alex
Easy to create a “conservatives lying their way back into power” storyline, but on the other hand, if Portman, Sestak, Mongiardo, and Crist all get into the Senate, I think that would be 4 seats turned more liberal than they were: (Voinovich, Specter, Bunning, and Martinez/LeMieux, for comparison).
Nick
@Backbencher: Supposedly they’re not supporting him, but they might not have, he could have this seat locked down now.
jwb
@Nick: “Let’s face it, Mollohan would still have a job if Hillary Clinton was President and there’s a good chance Shelley Moore Capito wouldn’t.”
And if Clinton was President we’d be talking about some other lost seat and how we wouldn’t be talking about that seat had Obama been elected. The crazy was going to be unleashed whatever Dem was elected, and we’d be dealing with wingnuts nattering on about gender instead of race, but I don’t really see things being in a much different place today politically had Clinton been elected.
Elizabelle
Mollohan was compromised. Not sad to see that seat turn over.
Nick
@jwb: Oh absolutely, I’m not doubting that. The party would be far weaker in the Pacific Northwest and Upper Midwest.
Brachiator
The impact of these elections are getting national attention. From Yahoo News:
Meanwhile, Arizona escalates its war on uppity nonwhites:
By this logic, Arizona must outlaw Black History Month.
Nick
@Brachiator: Of course they are…progressives got spanked tonight, the media is positively orgasmic.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
It took them a long time to finally adopt and recognize MLK day. They are the only state in the union, I think, that doesn’t do daylight savings time. Odd ducks just over the border from me.
Nick
This dude on GOS has the ticket;
what he said.
Brachiator
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Wait, there’s more.
How dare anyone suggest that Republicans don’t love Latinos. It’s an outrage.
Oh yeah, and to hell with the First Amendment.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Nick:
In the late 60’s this region was truly a third world nation on American soil. Johnson’s war on poverty hadn’t really kicked in at that time. It is not nearly so stark the economic and social backwardness nowadays, as there is better access to the area, and much improvement was made under funding from Great Society efforts, that were largely targeted for Appalachia. The xenophobia still remains however, for things and people that are different, and the mistrust of the government. Unions have created pockets that vote dem, though they are quite conservative on social issues, but populist uprisings like with the Tea Baggers and having a black president can push even those labor dems easily into the wingnut electoral camp for periods of time.
Yutsano
I really should have something pithy or witty to say here, but to be honest I’m not even close to surprised. If they want the Republicans back just because Obama has done shit fine by me. Just leave me out of this and let Washington have the right to become the next province of Canada.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Yutsano: That’s pretty much how I feel too. It is just not worth fretting to much over apathetic and spastic American voters. If they put the wingers back in charge, then we deserve what we will get. I am not going to worry about it, or as little as I can manage.
Kryptik
WV’s problem and why it’s getting Redder is because of three reasons: Coal, Unions, and Guns.
The state practically exists on a Coal economy, Miners Unions have been disappearing fast, and whatever support they’d give Dems in general with it, and Guns….well, lets just say that the NRA was pretty damn significant in helping skeer folks into backing Bush.
Nick
@Yutsano:
Well that’s the thing, they don’t want Republicans back becasue Obama has done shit, they want them back because Obama has actually done STUFF that they don’t like.
Nick
When I was a young American child living in London, my grandfather would come visit us. He spent a whole summer with us when I was eight and he had retired…we were moving back to the US the next year. I remember him saying to me “Never be too proud to beg” and I remember him often shaking his head and saying that “Americans pride is excessive to the point of self-destruction”
In the end, this is about pride. To vote Democrat, to endorse the progressive agenda, requires an Amreican to swallow his or her pride…their pride in their country as they must admit we as a nation do some stupid, bonheaded, immoral and sometimes illegal things. Our pride in ourselves as we have to admit that we sometimes need help taking care of ourselves and our family…that relying on the government doesn’t make us failures as people.
Our American pride is what keeps us conservative. At some point, we’ll have to swallow it if we’re going to enact any progressive change.
Yutsano
@Nick: Shit in this case means he’s actually had a massively productive first year (regardless of the kvetching from the left about what he hasn’t done yet) and he’s still rolling along. They really only don’t like it because a darkie did it, let’s at least play the honesty game about that. Fuck it, just have the damn elections and let’s settle the fucking Civil War once and for all.
Nick
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: The problem is…we’ll have suffer for it.
Americanadian
@Yutsano: Ironic that you’re talking about WV in that context, although WV’s separation from Virginia was more about economic ressentiment towards the lowland Virginia planters, and close economic ties with the rest of the Ohio valley, than any great hatred of slavery.
Nick
@Yutsano: As for kvetlching on the left…think this election pretty much puts into context just how irrelevant the lefties are.
Far Right Democrats have now had more luck taking out Blue Dogs than progressives…what does that tell you?
Yutsano
@Americanadian: West Virginia knew which side their bread was buttered, so they had to separate off in order to keep that gravy train rolling. In fact IIRC they were one of only two slave states remaining in the Union. So if the irony is that West Virginia goes with the South in the final resolution, I’m all for that. I’m tired of carrying their fucking water.
@Nick: That the diversity of the Democratic party is a strength rather than the weakness the Republicans perceive it to be.
Nick
@Yutsano:
The Republicans aren’t presenting it as a weakness, the Jane Hamshers of the left are.
I don’t think it’s a weakness at all, that’s why Dems are the majority, but that means we on the left, and that includes the likes of Hamsher, kos, Greenwald, etc. have to accept the Oliverios with the Kuciniches. The Democratic voters of Northern West Virginia outright rejected progressive policies…because they’re not progressive. Deal with it people.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@Brachiator: One odd thing about all the disaster coming from Arizona is that we really could blame Obama for part of it. If he hadn’t picked Napolitano for Homeland Security, she’d still be the governor, and she definitely would have vetoed such idiocy.
Though it’s probably not any 11th-dimensional chess to create a scenario that would help immigration reform pass. I doubt too many were expecting Arizona to pass such a ridiculous law.
Yutsano
@Nick: It’s no big skin off my nose. I live in a state where four-fifths of the population lives within a 60 mile radius of the major metropolitan area, so progressive politics is pretty much going to be the rule here, and half the state (in geography) resents it. But they still enjoy the benefits of those progressive policies even if they don’t necessarily like them. I personally would rather work towards making things better for all the residents than pretend that hurt fee-fees are something to make policy on.
Mark S.
Kagan’s friends are saying she ain’t gay. Anonymous commenters at Balloon Juice beg to differ.
Seriously, I brought this up on another thread, but why didn’t Sully write this story? He’s a journalist, right? He could have asked around before demanding that Kagan out herself. He could have also hauled his ass up to Alaska and found someone who was working at the hospital where Trig was born.
But that’s too much work. It’s much better just to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
asiangrrlMN
@Nick: kos has come to his senses lately. I’ve heard him on Olbermann’s show, and it looks like he’s found his way again.
@Yutsano: Hon, you are the optimist; I am the pessimist. Please try to keep that straight, as it were.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: Petulant five-year old here: I don’t deserve it! I hated it when people said that during the W. years. “We elected him, so we deserve it.” I did not elect him. I know you mean in general, but it’s pretty discouraging for those of us who continue not to deserve it.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: I’m worried because our state has a habit of electing Republican governors. Even with the disaster that was Ratface Pawlenty, I don’t expect it to change.
@Mark S.: You and your silly facts. Her friends will say anything to protect her, don’t you know.
Martin
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I had a classmate in college who spent most of his childhood struggling to overcome a speech impediment. His mom had a cleft palate, his dad died in a mining accident, and he spent almost all of his time at home with mom in their tiny mining town. He simply adopted his mom’s speech impediment since he spent so little time around other people. He never had a TV or a radio. He wasn’t much older than me either, born in the early 60s. Apparently it took him quite a while to learn to not talk like mom.
If memory serves, he worked in the mines for maybe a year or so and mom finally talked him out of it. He enlisted in the army and left just before the first Gulf War, and sent himself to college. He was a sharp guy, but his options growing up were remarkably thin. The army got him out of his town and off he went from there. He graduated halfway through my second year.
Around that time I was dating a girl who had relatives in central PA. She hadn’t seen them in a while so I offered to drive her for a visit (I love road trips). It was an amazing place – down an road that was barely on the map. I could have mistaken it for Cuba. The houses were barely standing. Ancient cars in driveways. There was a single business in town – basically a gas station/general store. I don’t think anyone still in town worked – they were all retired or on disability. There were no jobs, after all.
We spent the day with her grandparents. Her granddad was a miner and was trying to hold off his black lung. Apparently he was in marginal health for some time, but didn’t seem to be getting worse. They were very nice people, but very suspicious of me – this boy with a NY accent who was very curious about everything. Wondered what my plans were – graduate school didn’t seem to carry any weight with them. Asked me what I knew how to do. Thankfully, I know quite a bit – we talked about woodworking and gardening and cooking (it really surprised them that someone from New York knew fuck about anything useful), I learned a lot about how mines operate. After we left, 20 minutes later we were back in familiar surroundings. It was a little surreal.
Ever since then I’ve sought out the little lost corners of the world. I spent a fair bit of time with a couple of Amish families in my senior year. If I’m on a trip and there’s a town in the middle of nowhere, on a road that goes nowhere, I aim for it like a laser. There’s some really cool corners of this country, and a lot of places it’s clear that broader society would prefer to pretend don’t exist, or at least would be eager to see ‘fixed’.
Mike Kay
yeah, but Mollohan was also pro-life, anti-cap and trade.
on the bright side, the dems won this seat by 30 pts in 2006 and 2004 (it was uncontested in 2008/2002).
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: I haz my moments. I know when to just give up and move on though. Let them have their own country and let’s allocate our tax resources better. If that turns us into Europe on the Pacific so fucking be it.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: The problem is that their own country would be our country, too. Practically, we are not going to be splitting America any time soon.
OriGuy
@Yutsano:
Five, including WVa; Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, and Missouri were the others. Missouri’s legislature actually voted to secede, but a special convention had previously voted for the Union. The pro-Confederate governor was forced to flee the capitol and Union forces installed a provisional government. So the only coup d’etat in US history was brought about by Republicans.
rageahol
you know, i dont see anyone mentioning this, but im fucking drunk, so whatever.
in 2007, west veirginia’s democratic primaries changed their rules to allow independents. while i dont doubt that WV dems tend to be on the conservative side given their beholden-ness to the state’s coal interests, i think this rule change allowed a bunch of whackadoodle morons to vote in the dem primary when they wouldnt otherwise have done so.
tell me i’m wrong.
Brachiator
@Thoroughly Pizzled:
Uh, no. As perhaps the WV election indicates, people will vote their fear over their own self-interest.
I don’t think that Obama, or anyone, could have predicted this weird racial nativism that has sprung up as a counterpoint to Obama’s election.
Obama acted as any politician would, building his cabinet with people who he thought would be good for the country. In some cases, there was a risk that a Republican would take a seat vacated by a Democrat. But what Arizona, and some other states, are stepping into has less to do with differences over political viewpoints, but is something much more malignant.
Mike Kay
@asiangrrlMN: that’s one of those oddities of liberal states.
for example, I don’t think NYC has ever gone republican. Even under Lincoln, the city was controled by Tammany Hall.
But it does elect republican mayors, going back to Lindsey.
you have in minnesota a state voting for the democrats in every presidential campaign since 1960 (except for 1972), but it does elect gooper govs.
the same thing happens in california, where every single state wide office is held by a democrat, except governor.
burnspbesq
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Nowadays, if you want to see that, drive west on State Route 5 from Albany toward Utica. Once you get past Schenectady, which survives because of Union College and some GE facilities, it’s one little town after another, that had manufacturing plants until the 1950s or 1960s, all gone now. Towns that no longer have any reason for being, but haven’t yet been officially abandoned. Only thing missing is a latter-day Walker Evans to document it all.
Martin
@Mark S.: Hmm. Girl at Princeton in the 70s goes out with guys. Well, that’s indicative of jack shit. I can’t even count on 2 hands the number of over 40 women I know that only started dating women once they hit their 30s or so.
Anyway, who gives a fuck. I don’t even care about my kids sexual orientation as much as half the country cares about the orientation of someone they’ve never met and never will meet.
asiangrrlMN
@Mike Kay: I know! It’s so frustrating. 1993 was the last time we had a Democratic Governor. So bizarre.
@Martin: I’m sticking with the totally unfounded opinion that she’s bi. Why? Why not? Now let’s see if I can garner ads for bi Asian singles.
@Yutsano: My list of states in which I can live is increasing shrinking. So far, Washington is still on the list.
Yutsano
@Mike Kay: About as close as we get is electing our Attorney General as a Republican. Then he pulled a stunt like challenging the HCR, and our gov got beyond pissed off. That tug of war is still going on, but his days in state politics are pretty much toast.
@asiangrrlMN: Heh. I saw what you did there. Trollop. :)
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Damn it! My sentence to you has an error, and I am too late to fix it. “Increasingly shrinking”. Although, the way I stated it initially could garner more strange ads! P.S. I am not a trollop; I am a brazen hussy!
@burnspbesq: So are brazen hussies!
burnspbesq
@Yutsano:
Nothing wrong with trollops. I like trollops. Trollops are fun.
Martin
@Mike Kay: I don’t think you can hold Arnold against it. It was a VERY strange election. Hell, one of my employees was running in that election.
We had Arianna Huffington, Peter Ueberroth, Larry Flynt, Angelyne, and Gary Coleman all running in that race. Comparatively speaking, Arnold was a fairly rational selection, and the race was somewhat pleasant in that party politics played a much smaller role than normal. I only included Arianna in the list above to prove that we didn’t vote for the person with the funny accent.
Martin
@asiangrrlMN: My first instinct was that she was bi- as well if for no other reason then it means that every statement so far mentioned about her would be correct.
asiangrrlMN
@Martin: I like the way you think!
Yutsano
@burnspbesq:
Heh. You say this now. Wait until the 16 year old discovers trollops. You opinion might change.
@Martin: That election was absolutely mad. I seem to recall Arnie’s commercials dealt more with his Hollywood days more than his actual policy positions. I still think Maria talked him into it.
OriGuy
@burnspbesq:
Archaeologists talk about DMVs; Deserted Medieval Villages. Thousands of villages across Europe were abandoned because of plague, war, economic conditions, etc. I wonder if future archaeologists will talk about DAVs, Deserted American Villages.
Yutsano
@OriGuy: It’s getting there, albeit slowly. Thanks to the rural electrical initiatives and the post office covering all areas of the US there will still be hangers on who insist upon not leaving regardless of the decay.
Martin
@Yutsano: Yeah, could be. Arnold gets credit for precisely one thing – he’s done a good job of holding the line on California’s energy policy. In the discussions I’ve had with people, nobody has any faith that the next governor can do anything with the budget – that’s mostly in the hands of the initiative process and the 2/3 requirements in the legislature. But energy policy can change, and people really want the progressive energy policy to continue.
The GOP candidates are currently trying to out-Arizona each other on immigration, which is simply jaw-dropping to watch. We had half a million people show up for an immigration rally that the media seemed largely unaware was even going to happen – and that was in one city. These idiots are fighting to demonstrate who is more show-your-papers loyal than the other. Every step they take to win the primary is a step toward losing the general.
Combine that with the attitudes toward energy, and I think Gerry has a big advantage right now.
Yutsano
@Martin: Didn’t they try that already and get their asses handed to them? Some folks never learn I guess. I haven’t heard of any rumblings of that sort of crazy up here (fortunately, and we do have illegals up here) but it might just be lurking under the surface. That and I don’t read local newspapers so I might be blissfully unaware of it. But please let California alienate what remains of their immigrant base. Y’all will have single payer by 2014 if that happens.
Martin
@Yutsano: The legislature has twice passed single payer and had them vetoed. There’s a 3rd run already approved by the senate that will probably drop after November, so if Brown wins, we might have it mighty quick. Supposedly it’ll save money in year 1, so we’ll see.
On the immigration front, we’re nearly 40% Latino and another 10-15% Asian. The GOP has largely lost the Latino population after Prop 187, but that was 15 years ago, and memories do fade a bit. The GOP is counting on low Democratic turnout in November, but I think that’s unlikely. The hot-button issue this year is marijuana legalization, and I think that’ll turn out everyone. BeBox is just under 50% in polling, so I don’t think Dems will sit on the sidelines for that race either.
Burr
I am from this district. Mollahan and Oliverio are based around the town I live. My gut tells me Oliverio will win. He has a strong base. Don’t be too alarmed by his views. They will change according to his own political expediency. Last year he was showing up at events supporting the public option. Then all of a sudden he decided to run for Mollahan’s seat and started courting teabaggers. (Funny enough my brother-in-law is an organizer for the tea partiers. He’s also a rich lawyer and receives healthcare from the VA. He is a total hypocrite.)
Anyway stop freaking out about Mollahan he had ethics problems and ran a half-assed campaign. The sad thing is he actually voted progressively some in this term. Olivero will win and when the Democrats approval goes up he will stop being a teabagger but still will be an annoying bluedog. Then when Byrd retires he will run for Byrd’s seat and lose because his base is only in northern WV.
(Plus, funny thing, Oliverio’s big business is small gambling operations which are are all over the place taking money from people who don’t know any better)
Thoroughly Pizzled
@Brachiator: Hey, I basically said that no one would have predicted it, although I might have added too many caveats. It was just a stray observation, more of an “unintended consequences” thing than anything else.
bago
There is only one appropriate response to a pet/hispanic/law-enforcement kind of day.
UHF.
wvng
@Yutsano: I agree. All the tiptoeing around the race issue is absurd. I live in the eastern panhandle, and can tell you that racism is not a below the surface phenomenon. N jokes were common and accepted in my daughter’s elementary school. Kid told a poor white trash joke one day and got into a world of trouble – which says it all.
There are plenty of good people here, and that includes the many racists who were just raised that way and don’t know any other way to be. Not making excuses, just the way it is. And I have no idea how to change it.
Nick
@asiangrrlMN:
was this before or after he called Michelle Obama classless for not saying Bill Halter’s name at some graduation?
kay
@Nick:
Hah! That was it for me. I don’t think he can be this big influential national player if he’s going to get so childish and bent out of shape when he’s losing. I don’t know: he thought the incumbent would just cede, and quietly retreat? I love his argument, too, that national actors and orgs should stay out of local races. What is the “netroots” but a national actor/various PACs that parachute in and want influence in local races? They have the right to do that, but they shouldn’t pretend that one is “grass roots” and “homegrown” and the other is not.
Nick
@kay: kos has no explanation to why Halter is getting killed in polls. The only obvious reason is that the Democrats in the state of Arkansas are very conservative and like that Lincoln is being a DINO obstrutionist. It completely flies in the face of his and most of the blogsphere’s theory that Democrats are upset at the lack of progressivism in the party.
Tom Jensen at PPP points out that just as many Democrats think the party is too liberal as too conservative (neither are big numbers)…West Virginia and soon Arkansas will prove that the right wing of the party is just as, or more powerful, than the left.
and kos is stuck…he would have to admit that he doesn’t have the support to really shake up the party, if he does that, he might as well just quit and shut down his blog…so he’s trying to cover his ass by blaming other people, including the First Lady…it’s an act of desperation.
Michael
Something dawned on me yesterday – Mexican immigrants are coming here to do the jobs that Appalachian-Americans won’t do because it might disrupt their SSI/Medicaid stream.
Yet at the same time, those same Appalachian-Americans have a shit hemhorrage over entry of Mexican immigrants into “their” America.
kay
@Nick:
We have a lot of conservative Democrats here, so I sympathize with his frustration. I think it’s possible to get a liberal past them, but I don’t know what the particular alchemy is, and I live here, and I’m locally active. When Clinton did that stupid banning flag-burning stunt, when she was a Senator, people here loved it. I said something negative, and they basically shunned me en masse at a Christmas party, for “fancy lawyer talk”. They were like belligerently demanding I salute the flag. I’m sure there are still nagging doubts about my patriotism. One fairly mild comment and I’m a flag-burner.
But, I also said (publicly, like an idiot) that Sherrod Brown was too liberal for my county, and he ran a great campaign and won every precinct but mine and they now love him very much. It’s tough to figure, and I’m a local.
I don’t know that kos can do it from California. It’s tricky.
Hunter Gathers
@Nick:
Lincoln dug her own hole. She’s mushy. Whines a lot. In an anti-incumbent electorate, being a mushy whiner who spends most of her time telling people what she didn’t vote for is not a formula for success in winning elections.
Nick
@Hunter Gathers:
and Democrats in Arkansas like that.
what’s Halter’s problem? He can’t beat her in a primary and he can’t do better in a general election against her. People don’t like mushy whiners, and people seem to like Democrats who stand for something less. What does Arkansas want?
kay
@Nick:
I think it is a mistake to dismiss local and state party leaders if you are an insurgent candidate. Not because of the leaders, but because the local people who are the Party rank and file are in the system, and like being in the system, and they consider themselves ‘the grass roots”.
I just don’t know that someone can come from outside and tell them they’re tools of the corpocracy, or whatever. They think they’re “on the ground”, because, well, they are.
Brunner did a clever thing here in Ohio (although she lost anyway). She contacted county chairs and simply asked for an endorsement. She had a lot of insurgent volunteers, but she knew she’d need reliable Democratic voters. I thought it was respectful and smart.
Hunter Gathers
@Nick: I don’t think that they know. Most of it has to do with Obama. In the Red part of the very Blue state that I live in, the only way that I can describe it is “Whitey’s Pissed”. Most of the people around here HATE Obama’s guts. For no specific reason. But everybody loves that the courthouse is being repaired. With ARRA funds at that. There’s Recovery Act signs all around the site, but I guess that facts don’t matter when Whitey’s Pissed.
Kryptik
@Hunter Gathers:
Well, remember, when good federal funds come in, it’s the local pols, Reps. and Senators that are responsible, and they’ll talk their constituents’ ears off about the good THEY did for their state and district. When something bad involving the Fed. Government happens, it’s because Obama’s a Black Marxist and he should resign or be kicked out.
Even when Obama “does good”, he’s bad, because the hacks take credit for the good while simultaneously trying to block it when they’re in Washington.
gwangung
Jeezus, I really, really, really wish that the louder “progressives” would remember this. There’s large segments of the Democratic party that are absolutely NOT progressive, and screaming about how national leadership is too conservative or is stabbing them in the back is amazingly tone-deaf and stupid (see health care, see Kagan).
Nick
@Hunter Gathers: So then why would anyone think Bill Halter would stand any better chance at getting elected as Lincoln. Apparently, the way to get elected in Arkansas nowadays is piss on the black man in the White House.
Can’t blame Lincoln for doing what she’s doing.
You know what, Fuck Arkansas.