Was reading this K-thug indictment of libertarianism, and went to Reason to look for the inevitable pissy response (they LOATHE Krugman), and I forgot that the glibertarians don’t work on the week-ends. They did, however, have this announcement from the Fonzi of Freedom, Nick Gillespie:
Regular readers of this site and subscribers to the print edition of Reason already know that we’re shoving off on our first-ever cruise in February 2011. Get more shiver-yer-timbers details here.
Among the Reason staffers who have already been shanghaiied into participating are Matt Welch, the Capt. Stubing of this voyage to the bottom of the Caribbean; Jacob Sullum, the bartender for our cruise; Ron Bailey as the ship’s doctor; and I’ll be filling the role of…Ted McGinley? I’m drowning here, folks, metaphorically speaking. Throw me a life preserver already.
I suppose it would be too much to ask that they take this cruise on an unregulated cruise ship off the coast of Somalia so they can see libertarianism in action.
A tubing trip next to the ex-BP platform in the Gulf?
How long until the Balloon Juice Cruise?
And I thought that it rolls downhill?
Nothing that sailing them into the Gulf of Mexico with a lit match won’t solve.
It would be too much to ask of them.
They might enjoy the refreshing honesty of the pirates, too.
If its off to sunny Somalia, can they puleeeze take Megan with ’em?
And throw in Sully as he is still writing about he is not writing about Kagan. He needs to hook up with a bearded Somali pirate. Arrrrg!
I think any Balloon Juice cruise would involve unseemly amounts of alcohol and probably no small amount of violence and casualties–which is why I like it around here.
Yeah lets hope they can sail without the condescending nanny state telling the galley not to put too much iodine in the shrimp. Maybe they can get a ship that flies the flag of the Marshall Islands.
If all else fails, they can always hire Chereth Cutestory, Maritime Lawyer.
Jrod, Slayer of Phoenix
Sorry Nick, but since you failed to purchase Life Preservation Insurance from me, I can’t in good conscience save you from drowning. I mean, tossing life preservers is a valuable ability, and I’d be wrong to sell that ability for anything less than what the market can bear.
@Dave C: Can you imagine?
trapped on a boat with a bunch of libertarians who are there because they are libertarians and want to hang out with libertarians talking about how great it is to be a libertarian.
i literally winced at the thought.
join us in the Ayn Rand Lounge at 7:00pm for market-priced drinks and snacks. there will be a reading of the full text (all 60 pages!) of John Galt’s epic speech, so sure to get there early, as seats may be priced according to demand!
No offense, but I’m fairly certain neither you nor Just Some Fuckhead would make it off the boat alive. :)
Ohhhhh… but that’s different. Somalis are black, Muslim, African, violent, immoral types. Americans are pure, Christian, peaceable, virtuous types – if only we kept the illegals out. (Why can’t the government do more!?1!?)
Libertarianism would totally work here.
Ha! The price of those drinks would get pretty high as the cruise went on. Supply is limited, demand is high. Bartender can charge however much he wants.
@Violet: And you can bet the service will go down as the tips are nonexistent since, well, they are already being compensated at their level of usefulness already right?
Bill E Pilgrim
I don’t see why right wingers get to have two separately-named divisions and we just get one. I mean “progressive” and “liberal” are pretty much the same thing, but they get to pretend that “libertarian” and “selfish Republican asshole” are somehow different.
I think we should invent a new political philosophy name to pretend that it’s different from the left, like “Responsibilitarians” or something. Then we can say oh, no, we aren’t Democrats or left wingers, we’re totally different, but then basically just keep saying the same things, except now with two teams.
@Dave C: You’re probably right. Some days it’s hard for me to get out of this wheelchair.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Here’s hoping the ship and the food haven’t been subjected to pettifogging government inspections. If the ship falls apart in the middle of the sea and everyone contracts salmonella they’ll have the comfort of knowing that particular cruise line is finished!
@Bill E Pilgrim: Responsibilitarians:
That might work. Along with our Pastafarian religion.
@Bill E Pilgrim: isn’t that what the Blue Dogs are for
Bill Kristol and Fred Barnes discovered Sarah Palin on THEIR cruise.
How the hell can reason be expected to top THAT?
Bill E Pilgrim
The ship’s doctor in Ship of Fools, by Katherine Anne Porter
I support this wonderful glibertarian cruise, which will transform humankind.
Freed from meddlesome government interference, which only survives through the sheer number of incompetent leeches and lazy stupid parasites of society, they will be free on this cruise to do great things. They will discover how to turn towel lint from the laundry into a perfect substitute for filet mignon. During a little detour to contemplate the rust orange beauty of the BP oil spill in the gulf, they will learn how to skim the foul crud polluting the water into a refined ultra hyper efficient superfuel. They will turn the nasty bug that will give them all very nasty pleasure cruise stomach flu into miracle drugs which they will sell at very high prices to save the lives of worthy rich people.
They will spontaneously form a glibertarian paradise, with the perfect form of governance that includes and optimal level of taking stuff by force, whining, severe physical beatings of those deserving such, and productive passive aggressive excuse making, and selfish autistic dreaming that will unleash human productivity.
The amazing outpouring of productivity will enable them to buy the boat, and use it as a core for building the first artificial glibertarian paradise island. They will then reproduce with hot chicks they can buy from the South Pacific islands.
They will not come back.
You miserable incompetent failures, you vile leeches, will be very sorry.
I probably will not be going myself, though.
@Violet: Fuck that. You want meals the rest of the cruise? You want your luggage back? Pay up. What the fuck are you going to do, jump overboard? We own your libertarian asses.
Bill E Pilgrim
You think that the Blue Dogs are the same as progressives, just under a different name?
You just had to say it, didn’t you.
We’re all doomed.
Predictably, the comments on the K-Thug article once more makes me facepalm, and wonder why such people who just go frothing at the idea of the ‘liberal media’ seem to populate the comments sections of such ‘liberal media stalwarts’ and such. Not to mention the whole ‘Perfect Free Market’ bullshit they seem to have all swallowed.
But if the glibertarian artificial paradise island does not happen, it will be the fault of those pesky meddlesome maritime laws, or some stupid government navy intefering and telling them that they can’t do innovative stuff. And they will come back, even pissier than before.
And they will be sad. But loser parasites like you all, will laugh. And the cosmic injustice will contintue.
Edit: just a thought. Balloon-Juice should send a reporter. That is the next step for this blog into the big time blogosphere. I suggest Tunch go. TunchThought has some similarities to glibertarianism, and if these Reason people are really as obnoxious as people say, maybe Tunch will get really fed up and eat them all.
Libertarians are a weird breed. On one hand I know that they will scoff at Krugman’s criticism because they aren’t ignorant of the idea that big business also engages in rent-seeking. BUT, they are more than willing to ally themselves with a movement that caters to big business, and they tend to understate the massive damage that comes from conservative ideas.
Yep! Remember, it’s the fault of limited liability laws in the first place why BP went all willy-nilly! Murkowski blocking raising the cap is part of the problem, if it just wasn’t there, BP would be inherently more liable and would’ve behaved! PERFECT FREE MARKET AT WORK!
If Carnival had any sense, they’d load these guys up on their shittiest ship, send them off to cruise around the northern Gulf for a while, and encourage them to toss their cigarettes overboard.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Dave C: No doubt, Dave, based on the number of commenters that have deemed it perfectly acceptable to murder someone based on an arbitrary assignment of “enemy” status.
But I’ll take a few of you with me on my way out. :)
That’s the thing. To them, Big Business isn’t the problem. Government is. The fact that Big Business has a stranglehold on gov’t is only a problem insomuch that if Gov’t wasn’t there, then Businesses would just be liable to the market, and then everything would be fine because the invisible hand would…er…slap them on the wrist when the inevitable mergering starts and the furthered incestuous relationships between companies and execs only becomes worse because there’s no rein to pull back.
Seriously, Libertarianism seems to hinge on the idea that Businesses will always act benevolent simply because they need customers, while assuming that Gov’t will always act tyrannical, because they aren’t accountable.
I love the name Responsibilitarians. Someone should grab that quick like.
Earlier I was talking to a Boortz fan and I stated that the opposite off empathy was a narcissistic asshole and after a gasp, I asked how you would define the opposite of empathy.
Not sure what my point is but narcissism is not the olden days and we need to call folks when they preach it.
Because the last time a bunch of libertarians went on a Caribbean cruise went so well…
@cleek: That setup sounds like something you’d find in an updated version of Dante’s Inferno. Welcome to hell, indeed.
When the video Regulation Vacation Celebration came out, I loved it & sent to around to a bunch of friends including a republican relative. However, she didn’t think it was one bit funny. In fact, I think she was pissed. I couldn’t make any sense out of her reply…something about balance & beer. I think she missed the point of the video is that we don’t have balance in regulation in the US or rather she thought we already had balanced or too much regulation. I’m wondering how she feels about it now.
R’s are very strange people.
JMC in the ATL
Well, I certainly hope that they are sticking to their principles and negotiating a low entry fee cruise with usage charges for all food, drinks, entertainment, activities, etc. “all-inclusive pricing” is inherently soh shul istic, denying both producer and consumer the information necessary to establish a market equilibrium for each activity.
I am curious, are libertarians pro-choice or anti-abortion? I genuinely don’t know because I never know what’s the difference between republicans and libertarians, they are both greedy assholes.
Every time I’ve raised a lifeboat scenario in a discussion with a libertarian, he (it’s almost always a he) has said (a) hypotheticals are meaningless and (b) lifeboat situations hardly occur in reality. I wouldn’t wish for anything bad to happen on anyone’s cruise, but it’s ironic that there’ll be a ready-made object lesson for everyone on board…
The opposite of empathetic is sociopathic.
“You think freely,” he pronounces, “You’re an American. I don’t care what your politics are, if you are enclosed by fear, that’s un-American.”
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Thought I would at least answer this, before I go on my internet vacation this Tuesday. this from an earlier thread.
I don’t know how anything I said in the previous threads would lead you to think I was mad at you. I am not. The initial thread, I commented on, then you answered my comment and I answered back. Then you stopped debating and the next morning first thing post an flame thread on all of us who spent and took the time to actually debate the question.
It is something that was becoming more and more prevalent lately, and goes back to at least the thread you did exactly the same thing but personalized it to me. And then said not much more in the comments. I think that is unfair and cowardly, and enough was enough. My leaving BJ and the internet in general is something I had been considering for awhile. And plus, I had said it many times, that when BJ, or it’s owner started aligning with the rest of the left side internet and the mindless and largely fact free poutrage, then it was time to stop for me. It has, you have, and I think you will be much happier with the cowards fuckhead and cornerstone to advise and keep you squared away. The entire left side bloggosphere is now full on Borg imo. and there was never any doubt that would happen. You held out as long as you could dude, but nobody can forever.
I will still keep track of my blog from the county library, until back on the grid. So if fuckhead, geg6, and or cornerstone want to flame me in person and not behind my back, they can do it there. I doubt they will, being the cowards they are.
@Brien Jackson: Well yeah but the wingers understand and shy away from narcissism. Hit them where it hurts.
the only reasonable hope for this cruise is a gilligan’s island scenario, i mean if a three hour tour, a three hour tour can get that fucked, a libertarian cruise can surely get lost on an island say for ten years or so…
i wonder what type of society they would form in that time?
i won’t even make the obvious jokes about ayn rand’s corpse sunbathing naked on the lido deck
the need for a huge poop deck,
or being the person on board to remind people that libertarian does not mean libertine.
surely the gilligan’s island reference is going far enough.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: OMG…no pictures of Charlie? Please no..It’s not that I don’t love you but I just love Charlie more.
@Anya: My brother considers himself a libertarian, last time I checked. When I asked him about abortion, he just got a real unhappy look on his face. He said he wanted to oppose abortion rights because his wife is so strongly anti-abortion, but he just couldn’t. He doesn’t go so far as to support abortion rights, but he can’t in good conscience support the level of interference that anti-abortion proponents demand. His honest discomfort made me like him a little more.
“glibertarians don’t work on the week-ends”
hahahah! Subtle snark best snark.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: I’m going to Hatteras to fish for a week, wanna go?
They really are planning to go to the “bottom” (sic.) of the Caribbean?! < we should be so lucky > . They may have anticipated a bit: along with all the pin the name the crew charades, they should also play christen the ship. The Flying Dutchman, Mary Celeste, whateverthat garbage scow was from New York . . .
HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist
I hope the raw oysters and seafood they’re eating aboard this ship is free of any meddlesome government standards on handling and refrigeration.
HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist
Ever read Lord of the Flies?
Mike in NC
They say the Bermuda Triangle is lovely this time of year.
Global warming. Bigger icebergs. Libertarians on a cruise.
Sounds like a problem that can solve itself. Viva free markets!!
Krugman isn’t being fair here. Ridiculous damage caps are the problem he is referencing, and those have nothing to do with / are antithetical to – libertarianism.
The real problem for the libertarians is the nonexistent regulatory environment they champion. What happens when the malfeasant executives are fat, happy, retired, and bear no responsibility for what they have wrought? Libertarians assume away short-term gains in a world where everyone obsesses about the next quarter.
The problem with libertarianism is we will never, ever see anything close enough to it to even test its theories. The problem with damage caps/corporatism is human nature and its relationship with power.
I’d have a lot more respect for the Reason crowd if they spent half as much time railing against corporate welfare as they do the kind of welfare brown people might see. Koch don’t pay for that, I guess.
Edit: I should have thrown in some snark about that damn cruise, but I’ve got nuthin’. I guess on the plus side, it might have some good weed. You’ll need it.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Let me get this straight. First, you ruin fuckhead’s Stuck-free day, and then you call lotsa people cowards.
You call lotsa people cowards when it is you who are running away from this intertube blog. I’m right here. I don’t pie anybody. Anything you want to say to me, or about me, go right ahead.
People some times say I’m a bully because I’m pretty harsh with criticism of what I consider failed and/or flaccid arguments.
But I have never claimed to be tough or physical – or threatened physical action against anyone. Unlike you Stuck, who has played the true internet tough guy against TZ and myself, to name two at least.
So I would posit that the true coward here is you Stuck. You try your weak ass rhetoric, which gets called out for what it is, then when that doesn’t work you physically threaten people over the tubes. Then, for all the good that does you, when it still doesn’t stop people for calling you out on your monumental stupidity you drama queen your way around this blog for a convenient 5 day weekend of “Stuck’s Farewell Tour”. You got what you wanted, at least in part, and you quote it in your triumphal post here. John Cole expressed indirectly something about you. Since he didn’t respond to you directly, intervene and beg, beg, beg you to stay and share your wisdom and misspellings, you’re taking the best you can get.
We get it. You admire and worship John Cole and now he has acknowledged you exist.
But don’t drag me into your little sexual-psychodrama. I’ve never said you should leave or go anywhere, and I couldn’t care less in any event. You’re a pathetic drama queen waiting for someone to beg you to step offa that ledge. And you probably go to bed at night dreaming you’ll wake up and see a front page from Cole personally requesting you stay. Just cut bait already, or admit what we all know to be true.
In other words…meh.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: Can we still hear about Charlie? You have always been secondary, even though we love you, but Charlie is Charlie.
Not sure what Corner said cuz I had a few beers but hopefully he said we get custody of Charlie.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@demo woman: You can get to my flickr account by clicking on my handle. a link is on the sidebar. and bookmark it if you want. I won’t be posting any new pics for at least a month and maybe longer until back online.
So J-Whine (aka Cole) doesn’t like K-Thug (aka Krugman). In point of fact, did he say one thing that wasn’t true?
I don’t think so.
Cry me a river J-Whine.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@Corner Stone: Yer always a cutie in a hissy fit. :)
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: Don’t stay away long.. We need you and we worship your wisdom… Plus we love Charlie…
All the old timers are disappearing and I hate that.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: You are really going to leave us with Fuckhead..Oh great. Anyway come back soon.
Just Some Fuckhead
@demo woman: You can always go with him. :)
I so el-oh-el’d when I read that. Priceless.
ETA: Yes I’m going to burn in hell for doing so, but the LOLs was worth it.
@demo woman: God. How many beers have you had? And what were they laced with?
@Corner Stone: Actually only two plus but it doesn’t take me that much… The odd thing or not so odd thing was to watch the folks that I hired to paint peaks. They kept looking at my work and tried to do as good as I did… They finally decided I was that word..lol
What do you lace beer with?
LOL, say *WHUT* now? Wherever did you get that notion?
Man… I don’t know what the FUCK you just said, Little Kid, but you’re special man, you reached out, and you touch a brother’s heart.
@Corner Stone: Thanks…I think. I’m going to bed..
On another thread I spoke about hiring folks to paint the outside of the house in areas that I could not reach. It was actually quite a deal.. Normally I’m vague but after a few beers it’s way out there.. Sorry.
@Bill E Pilgrim:
We need someone to write a really shitty novel that could be the cult touchstone for this new division of liberals!
My writing is pretty shitty but I am not sure I am down to Assholes Shrugged level of shitty.
Somehow the idea of Tunch on a boat makes me laugh.
I’ve never understood why libertarians believe that government should be so small as to be non-existent, while business can be as gargantuan as it likes.
Ironically, libertarians are as fanatically deluded as Marxists. Marxists believed that the state would wither away, while libertarians yearn for a state that has been strangled into a helpless coma by the invisible hand of a totally unhampered free market.
@Kryptik: I’m pretty sure the conservatives have an organized campaign for trolling the major media outlets. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that there are paid positions.
@robertdsc: It’s not entirely unfeasible.
@JMC in the ATL:
They should also throw out the lifeboats, rip every government-mandated piece of safety equipment off the ship, and demand that all food be prepared in ways that violate all health and safety regulations.
Wonder how the will react to the government required mandatory attendance life boat drill before sailing , or the fact that they can’t bring their own booze aboard but must purchase ship booze at ship prices
@General Egali Tarian Stuck:
Dude, fuckin’ go already. You’re on like your 6th curtain call. It’s like the fat chick who is going to go on a diet that starts next Monday. Well, when is your Monday going to get here?
I’m a sorta engineering junkie and that dock ship blows me away. God damn, that’s big. Definitely in the Tunchian realm.
@robertdsc: Did you notice the jack stands? I wonder if you can order those from Amazon?
Heh. How about for dragging around a couple of Jet-skis?
@robertdsc: And after all that, the ship is still 400 ft shorter than the Nimitz.
Or how about this pig? Half a million tons of displacement, and, particularly relevant to recent developments, 3.16 million barrels of oil.
Just amazing. Defying belief. Thank you.
@General Egali Tarian Stuck: @Corner Stone: Did I just wander into the sequel to “Meangirls”? Now we just need Fuckhead to complete the casting.
Stuck, if you feel the need to take a break, by all means do it. I went overseas for three weeks in March and never looked at the internet the entire time. It’s amazing how much better frame of mind that puts one in. However, rather than announcing it (repeatedly), just pull the plug and start unwinding. Come back when you feel up to it.
Cornerstone, I don’t understand the venom. Why are you taking anything Stuck, or anyone else says, so personally? It’s a fucking blog and we’re all anonymous, including all of the front pagers, excepting Cole. We all offer our two bit opinions, some of which others agree with and others that will get you flamed. I ought to know – I bear the scars from being burned in more flame wars than I can count. And guess what? I don’t take it personally (well, except for Wile – he’s an absolute douche and makes me want to fight back) because, again, we really don’t know each other and are not friends.
As someone above said, many of the old commenters are gone. This used to be a place where you could argue, but it was done in a reasonably civil manner, usually with humerous insults, most of the time. I might get insulted, but I still laughed. Not anymore. Now, when someone disagrees, it’s done with a level of vitriol and hatred that didn’t used to be present here. Maybe that’s why so many are giving up and leaving, or only making the occassional appearance.
Just Some Fuckhead
@AhabTRuler: If the Gulf well is spewing at say, a 30,000 bbls./day rate, it would take 105 days to fill that tanker.
Or they can go set up a little “seasteading” experiment – why even come back to the mainland? They can turn their cruise into an autonomous zone of liberty..
@Church Lady: Sorry. Did you say something?
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Never. Never is the correct answer obviously.
Is this the cruise that leads to building Rapture? Because I hear that works out well for the Randroids.
Gilligalt’s Island? Too subtle?
Julie, Julie…. who will be the Julie on the cruise?
I mean, how can there be a Capt. Stubbing w/o Julie?
Obviously, the answer is Ayn Rand. How come Reason didn’t advertise this? They must be Pinkos.
Wow. That’s a big-ass boat.
@Steeplejack: Agreed. I, however, am digging in and sticking around. I gave up on one blog (for the most part, I still pop in every now and again) and I like the vast majority of the folks here even if I’ve been beaten up. No one on the Internet can either hurt or help me unless I choose that they can. So I choose that they can’t. I find this increases my enjoyment immensely.
@Anya: They’re on both sides, depending on their upbringing. One local radio loudmouth calls himself a “pro-life libertarian” which I interpret to mean a rich (lapsed) Catholic asshole.
@Steeplejack: What is this? Bizzaro land?
You’re co-signing something by Church Lady?
I sometimes wonder…
Well, I was amazed myself, and I did note to myself that it was the first time I had ever explicitly agreed with something of hers, but there it is.
One of the things I prize about Balloon Juice is that it’s not the usual sticks-and-stones, beat-your-brains-out blog. There is a sense–to me, at least–of some community beyond just scoring rhetorical points or “counting coup” against some real or imagined adversary using the issue of the day and debating tactics you learned in high school.
I am sorry to see Stuck go, regardless of what I thought of some of his arguments. Maybe I’m just more “live and let live” as I get older.
I heartily recommend a look at David Bohm’s On Dialogue as a model of a possibly new paradigm for public discourse–not just to you but to other readers and lurkers.
@Sly: The accompanying source material is a hoot as well, including a precious quote regarding the “Radical Libertarian Alliance,” describing them as
and several choice descriptions of Libertarian factional infighting from the late ’60s.
@daryljfontaine: I’d call spoof, but if life has shown me one consistent factoid it’s that life will always be stranger than fiction.
This will of course be the B ship.
The A and C ships will follow later.
@Viva BrisVegas: I can’t believe it took 100 comments to get there. Win good sir, win.
Call me a ‘tard, but I don’t get it. Explique, por favor.
Steep + Is this affecting my blog comprehension?
@Steeplejack: This is a decent primer for the joke:
Ah. Man, I need to go back and reread those books. I have been out of the loop too long.
P.S.: @Viva BrisVegas: For the win, sir or madam!
@Steeplejack: It was seriously low-hanging fruit though. I’m kicking myself for not putting it all together first.
It’s probably too late/early over your way for the cogitation of trivia. I have a time zone advantage of which I intend to make ruthless use.
Steeplejack – it will always be radio for me, the picture is so much better.
@Viva BrisVegas: As I am in the massive throes of insomnia your assessment there may well indeed be accurate. Plus I have to work tomorrow too. Bliss.
Bill E Pilgrim
One of two of three absolute best bits of dialog in the whole thing.
Yes. It’s all part of the plan. … I think. There was a terribly good reason for it which I can’t quite remember at the moment.
(exasperated) You’re a load of useless, bloody loonies!!
Ah, yes, that was it. Pass me the loofah will you?
Eh, I’m not sorry to see anybody who harbors rightist/fascist notions go, if they insist on holding onto those ideas. Would you keep inviting a racist or warmonger back to Thanksgiving dinner? Over the years this blog’s commenters have done a pretty good job of driving the wingers off, with a few pernicious notable exceptions who just don’t get it. As long as people are going to throw right wing arguments up there, like Stuck’s defense of Obama’s warcrimes, those arguments have to be stigmatized. You have a choice: lose the idiotic beliefs, or catch crap for them. Sure, you can say anything you want to say and it’s protected by the First Amendment but the First Amendment doesn’t buy you a pass from people calling you on being wrong. Right wing arguments are outside the realm of acceptable debate and shouldn’t be treated politely like it’s just some decent alternative to what is right. “Oh yeah, the idea of assassinating people we don’t like is no big deal because our guy wants to do it now.” Huh? If Bush did this we’d be talking about the big march on Washington next week. Obama does it and we’re casting around for excuses for him – “well, it’s the CIA so it’s bad, but if the Air Force was piloting the drone, or it was an F-16 strike, now *that* would be completely different.” WTF?
Sorry Stuck. You don’t seem like a bad guy but come back once you get your mind right.
Ah, yes, that was it. Pass me the loofah will you?
Are you sure? Bill Orly was the last one to touch it.
Ewwwwwwwwww! OK, just dish me up some falafel.
Are you sure…?
Wins the thread.
Responding to your question way up thread before the weird dance fight, most libertarians I have encountered tend to be virulently anti-choice. People like Ron Paul believe in no government but still believe that abortions should be illegal (presumably enforced by some non-governmental body). Most of the libertarian trolls across the internet hop onto any feminist or liberal thread on abortion to rant about the evils of women and most libertarians in general are not only sexist, but creepily sexist in the “I’ll design my perfect sex slave to show those bitches” sort of way.
But I don’t think it’s a universal. There are some libertarians who use that as their “one liberal social position” (as many libertarians like to claim at least one, often in cases that directly affect them to try and shore up their cred that they are completely indistinguishable from money conservatives), especially among female libertarians.
However, it’s definitely not the majority opinion and the more virulently anti-government they get, the more they seem to think that women need to have their rights scaled back if anything and support anti-choice positions.
You might get a better record among libertarians on (some) gay rights issues, but again, the only anti-gay atheists I have really met face-to-face or even blog-to-blog have been staunch libertarians.
In short, libertarians are sociopathic narcissist babies who hate anyone different than them but have enough functioning neurons to know that the wingnut right-wing is not the sort of thing you want to brag about belonging to outside your “safe” enclaves in the suburbs so calling oneself libertarianism helps fuel enough cognitive dissonance to feel superior about being a complete and utter asshole.
Yeah, I don’t like them, but then, a lot of that has to do with them ruining the entire world economy and then completely failing to react to it. They didn’t try and make excuses, they didn’t take a step back like stalinists after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they didn’t do any soul-searching. Just continued whining about needing more tax cuts and the deficit as if nothing ever happened.
For that, especially, I hope every last one of them dies of food poisoning from deregulated products.
So not only can we not be bothered to get basic facts right, we can’t even accurately describe peoples’ views?
The march to create the talk radio bloc of the left continues.
Oh, you’re concerned the comments sections of liberal blogs may be too mean? Well, I’m glad you’re concerned. I suppose you’re also concerned about the quick pace of change, increased government spending, and why people aren’t as civil as they used to be. There’s just *soooo much* to be concerned about…
But seriously, fuck civility. Civility is what you use to tell people to shut up, when you don’t have a decent counterargument.
Cruise ship full of Libertarians huh. Reminds me of Sen. Dole’s line about a bus loaded with Supply -Siders going over a cliff. The good news was they all died. The bad news was there were two empty seats.