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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  May 20, 20106:54 pm| 55 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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I just said to hell with it and am just throwing down landscape fabric.

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Reader Interactions

55Comments

  1. 1.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 20, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Good for you for making that tough decision. Now relax, skritch the livestock, and pour yourself a soothing beverage.

  2. 2.

    Sentient Puddle

    May 20, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    I has a box from Cafe Press on my front doorstep.

  3. 3.

    mellowjohn

    May 20, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    big art heist in paris. does anyone know what pierce brosnan has been up to lately?

  4. 4.

    Martin

    May 20, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    I say we take off, and nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

  5. 5.

    jeffreyw

    May 20, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Mmm…roast chicken

  6. 6.

    El Cid

    May 20, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Tea Party savior Scott Brown along with Snowe & Collins voted for cloture allowing for Obama and Congressional Democrats to ram their financial reform package down America’s unwilling throats.

    This of course can only mean that America is on the side of TeaTardia and think Obama took on too much at once.

    In addition, our robot butterfly overlords take flight. The Japanese are apparently quite dissatisfied that anime is fiction.

  7. 7.

    SIA

    May 20, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Rachel Maddow getting a lot of buzz re her interview of Rand Paul: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/how-to-commit-an-act-of-broadcast-journalism/56996/
    Coates opens with Palin:

    Now watch, that clip’s gonna be on the air for her, doggone it. Get her some ratings.
    –Sarah Palin

  8. 8.

    Sentient Puddle

    May 20, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    My new stuffs. It’s full of win.

  9. 9.

    freelancer

    May 20, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    Bought a Kindle via the Amazon link last week. Got it Tuesday. Iz in love!

  10. 10.

    asiangrrlMN

    May 20, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    @jeffreyw: I have missed the food pr0n while I was gone! Thanks for the luscious intro back into it.

    @El Cid: Wait, so I am confused. I thought Scott Brown drove a truck and was all man! Am I wrong? Is he really a, sob, commie at heart?

    @Sentient Puddle: Suh-weeeeeet! I got that mug, too. I love it.

  11. 11.

    RSR

    May 20, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    fabric is good and easy; can always pull it later (or the following season like we did this spring–kinda wishing we hadn’t actually)

  12. 12.

    ihop

    May 20, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    sorry, i wasn’t paying attention, and so in the tradition of the great prophet zarquon i will ask how much time i have and then say i like putting down a thin layer of newspaper with a couple-three inches of straw over top.

  13. 13.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    May 20, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Landscape fabric is a godsend. We’ve lined a large number of the beds at the B&B (Dauphine Hotel B&B Inn, come see us, discounts for BJ members!) and it’s really kept the weeds down.

  14. 14.

    jeffreyw

    May 20, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    @asiangrrlMN:
    Welcome back!

  15. 15.

    Maude

    May 20, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Don’t you need to put something heavy at the corners at first so it doesn’t blow away?

  16. 16.

    MikeJ

    May 20, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    @El Cid: But no vote for the Return of Glass Steagall, so a no vote from Cantwell and Feingold.

    I do expect them to vote to pass the current legislation, but it would have been nice if the amendments had gotten a vote.

  17. 17.

    Brian J

    May 20, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Via this blog, I came across this blog, which describes what the author calls the Broomstick principle. It goes back to when his parents left a broomstick near a register in their store so they could ring it up and get extra money without ever having to give customers a broomstick. Most people didn’t notice, so their plan worked, but if customers did notice, the blogger’s parent could act as if they rung it up by accident, since it was already lying there. It may not seem like a lot, but over time, it adds up.

    The New York Crank, the name of the blog I came across, makes the connection to the way banks are treating their customers. It goes beyond what he describes, I think, like when a bank charges a tiny fee to pile on more in interest charges. He says we aren’t nearly mad enough. I think he’s right.

  18. 18.

    Sentient Puddle

    May 20, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    @MikeJ: Disappointing, yes. It’s still going through conference, though. I hope Reid’s intentions were to get that ball rolling as soon as possible, not to simply punt on making the bill as good as possible.

  19. 19.

    El Cid

    May 20, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    @asiangrrlMN: It’s almost like Scott Brown is thinking that the Senate seat he needs to get re-elected to is from Massachusetts, rather than Confederate Texateatardia.

  20. 20.

    El Cid

    May 20, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    @MikeJ: Don’t even get me started on what it should have had.

  21. 21.

    asiangrrlMN

    May 20, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    @El Cid: Who woulda thunk it? Maybe he does have something more than just good hair in/on his head.

  22. 22.

    Quicksand

    May 20, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    But does he know about the holograms?

  23. 23.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    May 20, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Nooooooooooooooooooooo John, as I posted OT in the last thread, landscape fabric is a nightmare in the long run. Don’t do it. The worst part about it is that it prevents you from giving your beds a good over dressing of good compost and amending your soil. In case you missed it, check your city/county yard waste recycling center, they should have piles and piles of well matured compost that you can use as a mulch. Much much better than landscape fabric.

  24. 24.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    May 20, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    BTW via Strange at Rumproast you guys have got to see this

    http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/fleegles_revenge_banana_splits_dr._who_money_for_nothing_ghb_london_olympic/

    It played havoc with my allergies and made my eyes water and my nose run.

  25. 25.

    Bad Horse's Filly

    May 20, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    @Sentient Puddle: Tunch will not be pleased.

  26. 26.

    Miriam

    May 20, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    I had a kind of scary experience last week end that has made me even more concerned about this obsession with closing the border.

    I went fishing with my father in Canada. We crossed the border at International Falls. We’ve been making this trip three or four times a year for at least 20 years so we expected the normal wave through. We did have our passports of course.

    After we showed our drivers licenses and passports all hell broke loose. They got us out of the van and put us each in our own little room. A guy in a uniform came in and started asking questions – who are you, what is your address, your birthdate, what do you do for a living, have you travelled abroad lately etc etc.

    Meanwhile they tore apart the Van and everything in it. They went through all the compartments, all the fishing gear, all the luggage – everything.

    Finally after about three hours they let us go. No explanation.

    Now, I know stuff life that is happening to many people and in general I would just take it in stride but it really got me thinking.

    By closing the borders we are not only keeping people out – we are keeping people in. As a jew with a grandparent who is a Holocaust survivor this is kind of scary. I’m not implying that we are living in a fascist state, but this really doesn’t seem like a wise thing to do. What happens if things get bad and we can’t get out?

  27. 27.

    DanF

    May 20, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    I had laid down garden fabric under every flower bed in the backyard… Then I brought the dog home from the animal shelter. He found, removed and shredded every last inch.

  28. 28.

    PurpleGirl

    May 20, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    I took a professional development class today at the Foundation Center (Developing a Fundraising Plan). I’m tired, really tired and having perused earlier threads, they the all look interesting. And I’m too tired to read any of them.

    There are Census workers in my building tonight; they were meeting in the lobby, going over the routine for interviewing people who hadn’t turned in the forms. I saw them when I went out to get take out for dinner.

  29. 29.

    asiangrrlMN

    May 20, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    @Miriam: Holy crap. That’s terrifying. You got no explanation for it?

  30. 30.

    Laura W.

    May 20, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    @Sentient Puddle: Thanks for posting that. (And buying all that!) It’s the first time I’ve seen the journal in real life and it looks really good. Sort of tricky to size with all that spiral stuff goin’ on.

  31. 31.

    bemused

    May 20, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    What is this miracle or disaster landscape fabric made of? I’m really leery of putting stuff down on the vegetable bed unless I know it’s safe no matter how the weeds drive me crazy. I’ve been paranoid about that since years ago (before average folks knew plastic wasn’t benign) the recommended black plastic I used just disintegrated into pieces in no time.
    I’ve been using leaves (we have heaping piles of leaves after raking) around the veggie plants for lack of a better solution. Anyone try pine needles?

  32. 32.

    Jon H

    May 20, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    That’s one way to keep Tunch off the upholstery.

  33. 33.

    Morbo

    May 20, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Finally got a working dryer, and tonight I’m doing my first load of laundry in house. I am more excited than I have any business being about such things.

  34. 34.

    Anne Laurie

    May 20, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    @Maude:

    Don’t you need to put something heavy at the corners at first so it doesn’t blow away?

    If you can’t count on finding enough fist-sized rocks handy when you need ’em, the stores that sell landscape fabric also sell “ground staples” which are just exactly what you’d expect. People around here also use the staples to keep our old bedsheets and torn curtains from blowing away during the several weeks at the beginning and end of our too-short growing season when we need to cover our “tender plants” overnight to protect them from freezing.

  35. 35.

    Miriam

    May 20, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    @asiangrrlMN: No explanation. No apology.

    I have been re-reading The Handmaiden’s Tale and the two things taken together are really creepy. I don’t want to live in a country I can’t get out of. Weren’t there a couple of bloggers/liberals who had weird experiences at the Canadian border this winter?

  36. 36.

    Miriam

    May 20, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    @bemused: Pine needles will acidify the soil, so make sure you do a soil test before you use them.

    My solution to weeds was to hire the nine year old next door to keep the garden free of them for a dollar a day. He gets the dollar whether he does any weeding that day or not – as long as the garden is clean. It is a great way to teach a kid about money. He can’t stop talking about saving up to buy something special. First he was going to buy candy but then he realized if he saved the money it would be better. Made me feel really good.

  37. 37.

    Anne Laurie

    May 20, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    @bemused:

    I’ve been using leaves (we have heaping piles of leaves after raking) around the veggie plants for lack of a better solution. Anyone try pine needles?

    Pine needles are pretty acid, so you probably want to add extra lime when you fertilize those veggies.

    Oak leaves, on the other hand, will leach tannins and kill your plants outright. Oak leaves are supposed to be acceptable ‘winter mulch’ here in New England, because they don’t break down & can be raked up in the spring. But they also form heavy, dense mats that encourage mold & mildew growth, so they need to be removed promptly in the spring. As someone with allergies, I believe it is no coincidence that the oak tree was the favorite totem of the Vikings…

  38. 38.

    The Moar You Know

    May 20, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    What happens if things get bad and we can’t get out?

    @Miriam: That’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Make it tedious enough for Americans to return from a quick over-the-border trip and they’ll stop going.

    I just said to hell with it and am just throwing down landscape fabric.

    Cover with wood chips and you’re there, John. Low-maintenance landscaping.

  39. 39.

    jnfr

    May 20, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    @Sentient Puddle:

    Lovely stuff! I hadn’t realized Lily’s written a book!

  40. 40.

    kathy a

    May 20, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Take it from a landscaper: You WILL regret the landscape fabric decision if you live in your home longer than a year. Really you will.
    Mulch. Buy composted mulch. Mulch liberally. You keep down weeds, cut down on water use Builds the soil, adds slow release nutrients. Much better. Then you have a greater, healthier yield.
    And know that this is hard because you are starting a month or two too late. After a couple of years, I promise, it will be much easier.

    Unless you use the fabric crap.

  41. 41.

    Joel

    May 20, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Is your goal to kill the weeds once and for all? Because if it is, I’d solarize.

  42. 42.

    bemused

    May 20, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    @Miriam:
    Good idea, you get your weeds pulled, he’s learning how to save. Too bad I can’t think of any 9 yr olds I know that live near by &/or would do it for a dollar.
    @Anne Laurie:
    Our leaves are all maple, birch, poplar & a few others but no oak. We have some pine so a small amount of needles mix in there but not enough to matter.

  43. 43.

    Currants

    May 20, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    @bemused: No pine needles–they’ll change the PH of your soil in a direction not conducive to vegetable growing.

  44. 44.

    John Cole

    May 20, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    @kathy a: This is for a freshly plowed garden. Not the actual landscaping.

    By this time next year the landscaping fabric will have been removed and I will have raised beds built and in its place. I has a plan.

  45. 45.

    yoodow

    May 20, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    @John Cole: If you want to cover your garden only for a year, I would recommend using multiple layers of newspaper with some kind of mulch on top of it. The newspaper and the soy based ink is biodegradable and you can just plow it under next year when you build your raised bed.

  46. 46.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 20, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Still haven’t decided if I’m gonna plant a garden this year. Don’t know if I’ll have the time to tend to it.

  47. 47.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 20, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    @Miriam #26: What an upsetting experience, and quite scary.

    It was unclear (to me, anyhow) which country’s border agency put you through this. Was it while you were entering Canada, or returning to the US?

    I recently traveled to Canada by car, and I’m happy to say I had no problems either direction. But I was amused to be able to confirm first-hand that old, old joke: When I entered Canada, the Canadian agents wanted to know if I had any firearms. When I re-entered the States, the US official wanted to know if I had any fruit.

  48. 48.

    xjmueller

    May 20, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    My wife has us use newspaper instead of the fabric. We already have a pile of it, and it effectively blocks plant growth. Plus you can literally bury your favorite columnists. My experience with the fabric is that it does fine for a year or so, then isn’t any better than the newspaper. The newsprint does bio-degrade.

  49. 49.

    Gina

    May 20, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    I use the fabric in some areas, but for ones where I’ll be planting things over and over, or want stuff to spread out, I have had great success with the newspaper/compost layering – I don’t dig anymore at all for most things, just pile up newspaper & a thick layer of compost, plant in that and mulch with wood chips. I’m dealing with hardpan clay, Zone 5 and tons of invasives that take over just about any open area. We have these reeds that can break through double thickness *tarps*, so even the 25 year landscape fabric is a bust w/that.

    Rubber mulch is teh suck. It looks lovely at first, but if you have it on fabric, the leaf litter, schmutz, etc. just sits on top. If it’s on the ground directly, it gets all mixed in and messed up, and it’s too expensive. I’m only having it in areas where I’d normally use stone, and would never use it in planted areas again.

    I’ve also been lucky to find an online gardening group in my area. We share info, swap plants, and get together at least once per year to do a giant plant swap at someone’s house. Such a neat group of people, it’s always a treat.

  50. 50.

    Platonicspoof

    May 20, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    Mulch suggestion no. 57:
    Gardeners can also stop all weeds and add organic matter by laying down flakes (2″ to 4″ slices) from bales of, e.g., wheat straw (Willamette valley, Oregon). The bales split naturally by hand into slices this size, and you push the flakes up against each other – no weeds grow through them because of the density.
    Stay away from crops like grass hay because of all the seeds.
    Although the wheat straw has few weed seeds, you’ll probably get some wheat seeds sprouting if you spread the straw flakes right away.
    The way to kill all the seeds in the bales is to buy them now, stack them near where they will be spread, leave the strings on them (don’t break the bales), water the bales (germinate the seeds, start the decomposition), and let them sit in the sun this summer.
    All seeds in the bales of wheat straw rot over the summer (here).
    You can then spread the flakes in the fall.
    These flakes will break down much slower than loose straw, which ‘disappears’ in a year in this area. Rate of breakdown is much faster if you throw a little soil on top, you have a hot, wet climate, etc.
    I’ve laid out both fresh straw flakes and old ones, and old was easier. Teh caveat, is that a wet bale of straw weighs three+ times as much as a dry one, so stack them near where they will be spread.

  51. 51.

    annia

    May 20, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Sheet Mulch!!! I live in California, with 12/mo/year weeds. Google the details, but basically all the garden weeds and leaves and small branches can stay under layers of newspaper or cardboard (my fav), and then many inches of mulch – the first few inches can be lawn/yard waste, then bark or pine needle mulch. This feeds the soil like a forest floor. I have the most elaborate English flower garden, that should take hundreds of hours of weeding, and I rarely have to pluck a few sneaky weeds that pop in around the edges and some plants. There are so many worms now in my heavy clay soil I hesitate to dig a hole for teaming masses of them. I layers right up to the bases of my existing plants, and poked holes for the new ones. I know it works with tomatoes!

  52. 52.

    Susan S

    May 20, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    John, Order a truckload of compost. Spread 6 inches thick where you wish garden beds. Do notttt spread yourself; shoulder doesn’t need that. Pullweeds that appear. Flowers,veggies are quite happy…and compost will settle into soil. Instant beds. Happy Sunshine..and yes, Paul is a racist. Never can figure.. How can someone so young be so stupid.

  53. 53.

    Elie

    May 21, 2010 at 12:52 am

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    Depends on what you need it for and where..

    If you REALLY need to suppress weeds, you need the good stuff that is tough and is actually put under highways. Most landscape cloth is not that durable and you are back into the weeds pocking through in a way too short time frame.

    After many attempts in the little area in front of our house we use for parking, I have formally given up and we will be putting in a pervious interlocking tiles(allowing water to soak into the ground) solution this summer. I am no longer willing to spray roundup in the quantities necessary to keep things attractive but in amounts that roll into the Bay we live along. I have pointy head Cascade right wingers neighbors who put god knows what on their lawns (my across the street neighbor has no weeds, Ever). He of course, likes to eat clams, oysters and crustaceans from this same Bay but somehow doesnt get the connection. He is not stupid. He thinks the gets to have the reality of his choice, thats all.

    Anyway, Mother nature is resilient and I want to work with her not against her. If you really want a wake up call watch birds pull dandelion and thistle gone to seed for both food and to put into their nests — we of course, consider them weeds… how about that milkweed and Monarch butterflies too?

  54. 54.

    brendancalling

    May 21, 2010 at 10:24 am

    NOOOOOO!

    DO NOT USE THAT STUFF.

    A much better option is a thick layer of compost, which looks good, prevents weeds, and feeds your garden.

  55. 55.

    Sheila

    May 21, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    @SIA: Rachel handled herself well, as usual, but I wish she had deviated a bit from the Civil Rights question and pointed up some of his other truly loony positions. They both repeated the same points over and over again. I thought the time could have been far more effectively spent.

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