Today’s NYT headline on a Sestak story might as well be “Sestak Ignores Specter’s Request to Get Off His Lawn”:
White House Embraces Upstart Who Beat Specter
A 58-year-old former Admiral who’s spent two terms in Congress is an “upstart” only in a world where age and senility are taboo topics. Reporters who would cringe at the notion of an 80 year-old performing a bypass, or a 76 year-old prosecuting a murder trial, routinely ignore the fact that Specter and Bennett are elderly men whose prime was well in the past.
The men who beat Bennett in Utah were 30-40 years younger than Bennett. Utah has the lowest median age of any state in the country. But I haven’t seen a single mention of the relevance of Bennett’s age in any of his political eulogies.
A big part of the reason that age is off limits is that the Village also venerates incipient senility within its ranks. If they started pointing out that 70 and 80 year-olds might be better off retired, people would start wondering why we’re still watching Sam Donaldson and reading David Broder.
Michael
In the world of pundits, 80 year olds who’ve been running their mouths (and typewriters) in national media for the past 40 years are indispensible or something. It doesn’t do for these douchebags to get out of the way.
That late 40s whippersnapper Conan O’Brien got too big for his britches in thinking he was ready for the big time, and was just an example of impetuous youth.
aimai
Well, Henry Hyde’s youthful indiscretion made them all worried that life ought not to begin until 70.
But yeah, age is definitely the issue that dare not speak its name. Another thing that makes me laugh hysterically is the shock and horror that Sestak had the nerve to run *that ad!* that mean old, scary old ad pointing out that Specter had twice turned his coat and had been a Republican Senator within living memory for people who are not amnesiacs. In a country where right wing attack ads have, without any real public outcry, portrayed war veterans as cowards and traitors you would have thought merely pointing out that Specter had changed sides in the last two years was kind of mild. But no. And even more astonishing this perfectly obvious ad seems to have informed the voters enough to put Sestak over the top. And yet according to TPM absent “the ad” somehow the top dems were shocked and didn’t realize that Sestak could/should win?
aimai
cat48
As an old fart near Sestak’s age, I kinda like that I’m an “upstart” now–in DC anyway. heh
kid bitzer
“why we’re still watching Sam Donaldson and reading David Broder”
or, a little closer to home, why we’re still asked to listen to daniel fucking schorr.
The Grand Panjandrum
I don’t know, I still get a chuckle out of Andy Rooney now and again.
But, this also might explain why Imus hates that upstart Howard Stern.
jayackroyd
why we’re still watching Sam Donaldson and reading David Broder.
Speak for yourself, buddy.
debbie
@aimai:
Also, lack thereof. I recall plenty of people bitching about Clinton being too young. People just like to bitch, and they’ll latch onto any excuse they can find.
Cat Lady
The DC press corps had a front row seat to St. Ronnie’s Alzheimer’s in his second term, and he was the greatest. president. evah. Unless Broder starts wearing his Depends on the outside, no one will ever ask him to STFU.
satby
Their attitudes about age also factor into their general belief that the retirement age should be raised; a bunch of chair sitters who count cocktail hour schmoozing as “work” have a hard time relating to the average person who’s hard labor has left them with health issues and barely able to walk, let alone work a job.
Michael
Also closer to home, I noticed that TomP at the GOS put up a diary extolling some ad by Robert Redford which excoriated Big Oil. I appreciate the effort, but can we not have the 2 generations past prime spokescelebrities start fading into the background please? I don’t mind if they fund it or associate their names with it, but when nobody who is under 60 cares about or identifies with them as actors, it is really time to pass the baton.
I never thought he was all that anyway. Newman either.
Michael
@The Grand Panjandrum:
I dunno – Rooney always makes me wish that somebody would start some death panels.
Cat Lady
@Michael:
Them’s fightin’ words.
That is all.
Starfish
@satby: Most of us are chair sitters now. Globalization took most of the non-sitting jobs that do not involve working in a hospital. This is why we are fat.
Randy P
Part of my own encroaching senility (early 50s, but well advanced toward permanent curmudgeon) is that I can still apparently dredge up anger about things that happened many years ago, especially political things.
So I’m sort of sensitive about the age-as-an-issue thing because I remember when I still lived in New York state, the odious Alfonse D’Amato defeated the beloved Jacob Javits in a senate race with a campaign that basically consisted of “he’s really old. Almost dead.” The image was of a picture of Javits aging and crumbling. Wikipedia tells me this was the 1980 Republican primary.
I guess I’d say age can be an issue, especially when performance is slacking off or actual senility seems to be setting in. That didn’t actually seem to be the case with Specter yet. But I hate to see age become the primary issue because that gives me D’Amato-Javits flashbacks.
Somebody mentioned being too young. I did worry about that just a little with Obama, but he convinced me early on he had the poise, maturity and leadership to take the reins.
Steve
Frank Lautenberg says he plans to run for another term. The guy is a WWII vet…
Tokyokie
I dunno, sorta depends on who the surgeon is. Michael DeBakey was doing heart surgeries well into his 90s, and I don’t think I’d have minded the guy who developed the procedures working on me.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Cat Lady: Michael will have to fight me as well. Do not mess with the glory that was Paul Newman. Unless Michael has beautiful blue eyes, can make a fabulous salad dressing and gives the proceeds to charity. Then he gets punched in the neck only once.
stuckinred
No one over under 50 cares. Get over it.
Cat Lady
@Cheryl from Maryland:
Who was also married to his one true love for his whole life in a culture that glorifies pettiness and selfishness, and who was one of the best liberals this country has ever seen. One of his children’s cancer camps was near me when I lived in CT, and he would come around and drop in on local businesses. The man was a saint. Plus, Slapshot, and The Verdict.
bago
But old people thinking they can politic by saying one thing when they are in charge and the exact opposite when they lose is an endless source of comedy! It’s Stewart’s best shtick!
bago
@stuckinred: That was almost palinesque.
Bill E Pilgrim
I’m fairly certain that I’d find David Broder, Sam Donaldson, and Arlen Specter to be just as loopy and irrelevant if they were all 23.
Not that this contradicts your point, which was to ask why they’re calling someone at 50-something an upstart. I think it’s that they just revere their little club and once you’re in it it’s forever. Tucker Carlson may be an exception, hanging on the edges by his fingernails, but at least for a while his youth was not a barrier.
jayackroyd
@Cat Lady:
The Hustler.
The Verdict.
stuckinred
@jayackroyd:
Audra Favor: I can’t imagine eating a dog and not thinking anything of it.
John Russell: You even been hungry, lady? Not just ready for supper. Hungry enough so that your belly swells?
Audra Favor: I wouldn’t care how hungry I got. I know I wouldn’t eat one of those camp dogs.
John Russell: You’d eat it. You’d fight for the bones, too.
Audra Favor: Have you ever eaten a dog, Mr. Russell?
John Russell: Eaten one and lived like one.
Audra Favor: Dear me.
Hey, Hombre
"Fair and Balanced" Dave
@kid bitzer:
As far as I’m concerned, anybody who figured so prominently on Tricky Dick’s “Enemies List” can talk for as long as he wants.
JMG
If anyone on this site thinks Andy Rooney looks old on TV, they should see him in person. Anyone of any age (I’m 60) would guess Rooney is approximately 548 years old.
stuckinred
@JMG: Sometimes it’s the odometer and not the calendar.
John
You do know that “Senate” and “Senile” come from the same Latin root, right?
robertdsc
Funny, the first thing I thought of when I read the title was Sarah Palin.
Josie
@Michael: I hardly know where to begin in answer to your comment. Yes, I am over sixty, but I am not dead, and I do vote and even commit activism at times. These two men speak to a rather large contingent of the voting public. Robert Redford may not be as pretty as he used to be, but he still is plenty smart and involved, and I am glad he is using his (aged) celebrity for a good cause instead of chasing skirts, etc. As for your comment re Paul Newman – well, that is just blasphemy. He was sexier and more appealing in his old age than most men could ever hope to be.
Walker
I can say from experience with a family member that 70+ criminal defense lawyers can be pretty damn good. They know a hell of a lot of tricks.
Tokyokie
@Cat Lady:
Actually, Newman was married to another woman before divorcing her and marrying Joanne Woodward in the late ’50s, but most people don’t have any marriage that lasts 50 years, much less a second one.
Winston Smith
I think you’re being a bit broad in your attacks on the elderly. Some people remain sharp well into advanced age. Look at Amy Winehouse, for example.
What? She’s how old? Oh, man, life is not being kind to her.
Cat Lady
@Tokyokie:
Right. I should have said he was married to one woman for MY whole lifetime.
MikeJ
@Randy P: Javits was dead before his term, had he won in ’80, would have been up.
Mark
Well, not to be too contrary, but is anyone here real happy that that drooling geezer John Paul Stevens has stepped down from the Supreme Court?
Napoleon
@Cat Lady:
Plus he was a huge auto racing fan, and driver, like me. When I was still racing he ended up racing at an event I was also entered in, although we were in seperate car classes that were not on track at the same time.
Back on topic though, George Will should be mentioned in the aged crowd as well.
DougJ
@Michael:
Newman was the bomb back in the day. Redford’s never been that great.
phoebes-in-santa fe
I’ll be 60 next January and one of the reasons I wouldn’t have voted for John McCain – the main one being that I am a life-long staunch Democrat – was his age. (And the fact that Sarah Palin was one decrepit heartbeat and vial of poison away from the White House),
The pace of presidential duty is way too tough for a 70 year old. Senate and House, fine. But, I would have voted for Sestak if I lived in PA. We need to bring some new blood into our legislatures.
Athenae
Robert Redford may not be as pretty as he used to be
He’s prettier now, with the face with a map of the world on it. And I could listen to that voice forever.
*drifts off into happy daydream*
What? Oh hey. So yeah, I know guys in their 90s who kick more ass before breakfast than I do all day long. Depends on the guy, though. It’s not like every day in Congress you need to stand on the assembly line for 8 hours. Just be on the right side of stuff and I don’t care if you only work on Thursdays.
A.
Linda Featheringill
Have you ever listened to Sestak speak? He comes across as a dweeb until he starts talking and then he becomes quite interesting.
Arlen, Baby, always was boring. He was always old, too, come to think of it.
charlequin
@”Fair and Balanced” Dave: And that works for Paul Newman too.
dww44
As a very recent qualifier for SS and Medicare, I confess to having mixed feelings about putting old folks out to pasture when it is deemed that their good shelf-life has expired. Being involved mentally and physically is just so life affirming. I confess to having a bit of empathy for both recently ousted Senators, neither of whose political views in any way mirrored my own. Both Newman and Redford were stars in my firmament and both were also decent and caring human beings who put their money where their mouths were and are. FWIW, Redford was quite good on KO last night.
I am rendered a bit uncomfortable by some of the comments here. It’s bad enough when one walks down the street and people too frequently look past one and through one, but to be point blank told that one’s productive years are gone can be a little harsh.
Jude
Yeah, I (unsurprisingly) agree with Athenae.
Being old isn’t necessarily the same as being infirm. However, when it becomes debilitating, it’s an issue. Reagan’s second term comes to mind, as well as Strom Thurmond’s last decade of barely hanging on to life.
I don’t think Byrd should be serving any longer, either, just so it doesn’t seem like I’m exclusively picking on old Republicans.
Tom Q
Since we’re talking Paul Newman — and anyone who doesn’t think he’s the top has disqualified him/herself from serious esthetic discussion — we might also mention that one of his greatest performances was in Nobody’s Fool, and he was (disgracefully, it appears) OLD in that one.
As some are saying, there are 35 year old farts and cool octogenarians. It’s a case by case basis.
ellaesther
Ok, mistermix, you know that I like you a whole heckuva a lot — I have expressed my affection for you on more than one occasion, so you know this does not mean I’m abandoning you to the wolves, but: Dude! Back the hell off!
Being 70 — and even 80! — does not translate to being either doddering, or senile. I can certainly see the argument that old people tend to die, and maybe you’d rather have a 58 year old in office than an 80 year old (particularly one with a record of ill-health), but sweet baby Moses in the bullrushes, being old, if anything, is likely to translate to a longer lifetime of experiences and knowledge on which to draw. Regardless of age, background, gender, sexuality, color, whathaveyou — it’s best to consider the individual rather than dump people into a narrow box the limits of which are often defined by our own prejudices. I don’t like Arlen Specter, so I’m glad he’s gone, but that’s not because he’s 80. (And relative to 30 years in the Senate, two terms in Congress does make Sestak an “upstart”).
And as I am younger than the current POTUS, I believe my opinion should still count.
ellaesther
@Tom Q: Or, you know, what Tom Q said.
Cat Lady
@Tom Q:
I loved him in that too, but I recently watched Buffalo Bill and the Indians (Altman), and he blew me away in that. Everything he was in is worth watching. The guy had the whole package.
rcman
Yeah, old people suck. They’re all old and stuff. If only they would just stay in the house and do crosswords the world would be a better place. Plus, it’s so much fun to be able to make fun of the way people look and not be called a racist or sexist. Rock on.
BombIranForChrist
Considering that most people in the Senate just 1) bloviate for the cameras while simultaneously 2) accepting bribes for their votes, a senile raccoon could do it.
JohnR
What you mean “we”, paleface?
satby
Okay now, let’s get real. I’m 55 (yesterday!) and in perfect health, but a lot of my friends aren’t and would crawl over hot coals to be able to retire. And after a lot of hard jobs involving heavy labor, they have some mobility issues too. Yes, age and the potential infirmities it brings are highly individual, but as a group the older we get the “slower” we get. Does that make people less valuable? Of course not. But no job is forever and it’s ridiculous to think that a couple of older Senators, who have it pretty cushy as far as gigs go, losing their seats is that sad of a thing.
I don’t really support term limits or mandatory retirement, but too many people do not recognize when it’s time to gracefully get out of the way. I think that’s part of our job-obsessed culture, so many people retire with nothing to do but putter around and babysit the grandkids.
Triassic Sands
Yeah, we’d have been a whole lot better off if Justice Stevens had retired when he was seventy.
What may be true of most people at a given age, is just as likely to not be true of some people. People age very differently and excluding someone simply because they are x years old is pretty much just plain old discrimination.
Broder may be a fool because he’s ancient; or it may be because he’s a fool. In a lot of cases the problem is less age than having been around too long. In Broder’s case I think it’s a little bit of both.
However, there are certainly seventy-year-olds who are fully up to being president — both physically and mentally. McCain was (and is) not one of them. But the best reasons to defeat McCain, irrespective of his running mate, had nothing to do with his age. However, once he chose Palin, his age became a lot more important and a sufficient reason to defeat him. Even so, I’d argue that the fact that he chose Palin, and showed such unbelievably bad judgment in selecting a mindless fool to be VP, was a better reason to vote against him than was the fact that Palin would become president should McCain win and then die. Anyone with judgment that bad has no business anywhere near the presidency (or the Senate).
bcw
I think the bigger question is how some of these people got so old so young and how other people are so young when so old.
I think idiots are self-made, not made by age.
catatonia
Speaking of age and PN:
“When old man buys himself a bunch of sick Mexican cattle that means he’s over the hill.”
Ocotillo
On a case by case basis, age can be an issue. Snarlin’ Arlen actually seemed capable of the job although I would have voted for Sestak.
My concern is with John’s home state Senator, Robert Byrd. His replacement needs to be groomed and at the ready because forgive me but he may need to be replaced involuntary any day.
chrome agnomen
@Michael:
doesn’t really sound like you do appreciate the effort that much. (redford’s) are you into ageism? i don’t mind somebody of any age speaking up for the things i believe. guess this old white haired hippie should start to vote on the right side?
chrome agnomen
@John:
so do juvenile and youth
Twanna Holt
Hasn’t everybody gotten bored of this crap by now?