Apparently there were elections today.
Discuss the results. I’m waiting for the email from Soros to tell me what to think.
Reader Interactions
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
It’s the corruption, stupid.
This blog will pay for itself.
Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?
Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity
Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.
It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.
They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.
Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?
Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.
JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?
Everybody saw this coming.
When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.
This fight is for everything.
Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.
I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.
Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.
Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.
The next time the wall wtreet journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.
Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.
No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.
Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.
Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.
If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.
The willow is too close to the house.
demimondian
So, folks in South Carolina…am I going to get to watch the Republicans in your state sink even further into ignominy? At this rate, I’m reluctantly concluding that Blanche is going to live to lose in November, which is sad, but unsurprising…
beltane
Earlier in the evening it looked like South Carolina sexytime lady was going to be forced into a runoff. Haven’t heard anything about that in the past hour.
stevie314159
I am SO torn…..
I want Lincoln to lose, but if she does lose, we will never hear the end of it from Jane.
beltane
@stevie314159: Lincoln is awful. I’d prefer for her to lose regardless of whether or not it makes Jane happy.
demimondian
I would enjoy it if she did. I am, however, not opening a bottle of wine about Arkansas. I used to live there; people outside the state don’t really “get” Clinton’s pull.
stuckinred
@demimondian: Based on what?
Oh, I see, inside info!
mai naem
I guess George Soros likee me more than you John. I already got my check from him. Nice chunk of change from the pinko commie who’s apparently made another small fortune off the drop of the euro.
stuckinred
@beltane: But Jane is soooo pretty and she’s the only one who tells the truth.]
demimondian
@stuckinred: Several things.
First, Halter would need to clean up almost all of the votes who went for the third candidate in the original primary, and he’s not doing that anywhere so far.
Second, Arkansas consists of Pulaski County and a bunch of dust (although nowadays Faulkner County isn’t completely negligible…only mostly so.) Lincoln cleaned Halter’s clock in Little Rock (Pulaski) in the first round of balloting, and I’m assuming that will happen again this time. Halter needs to win by a huge margins out-state in order to have a hope.
stuckinred
@demimondian: Thanks, actually I would like to see Halter win and then disappoint Jane as much as Obama has.
lamh32
All I wanna know is which one of the elections tonite is a referendem/rejection of Obama?
Isn’t that how these nights usually goes?
stuckinred
@lamh32: Cali secretary of state!
Just Some Fuckhead
My polling place only had a Republican primary. But the good news is Thelma Drake wasn’t one of them. However, whoever wins the Republican nomination will likely take this congressional district. Only reason the Democrat won in 2008 is because of overwhelming black turnout for Obama. I’d bet my left nut we won’t see them again until 2012 however I’d like to be surprised.
Anoniminous
Light turn-out reported in California.
I’m guessing that’s good for Orly “Birther” Taitz’s chances at grabbing the SoS nominaton. But really have no idea, too many years since I “labored in the vineyards” of CA politics.
demimondian
@stuckinred: Ironically, that’s exactly what would happen. Despite the fact that it was a hack job, the NYT article on Halter’s not being terribly progressive (in Jane’s sense) is spot on. He’s not Lincoln, perhaps, but he’d still sit well to the right of the caucus.
stuckinred
@demimondian: Well, she ran me off when she hooked up with Grover so that would be gravy!
Chyron HR
I’m predicting Republican wins. It doesn’t matter who they were running against, just that Republicans won something.
jl
I wrote in Tunch for some high office. Chief Enforcer of No-Nonsense Around Here, or something like that. Whatever it is, Tunch will win, and he will straighten things out with good old git-r-done common sense. And eating. And mean stares at the bureaucrats and the crooks in power.
Tunch is cool cat I would like to drink a beer (or a milk) with.
Bubblegum Tate
@Chyron HR:
And those wins will be proof positive that the teabaggers are the single greatest political force in the country. Or something.
Mark S.
Does South Carolina have a runoff if nobody gets over 50%? Nikki’s kicking ass, but she’ll probably not get to 50.
I’m glad the asshole who said feeding poor children just encourages them to breed is in last place.
Just Some Fuckhead
@jl: If Tunch had any sense, he’d get a restraining order slapped on you.
demo woman
Even though when Murtha’s seat stayed in democratic hands, it was good news for John McCain, so I assume the elections tonight will be good news for Sarah Palin.
PeakVT
Halter may not be much better than Lincoln (a low bar, for sure) but it’s healthy for the base to take down an incumbent. Other senators could write Specter off as a unique case due to his party switch. I think they will take notice if Lincoln goes down, and take a smidgen more notice of what voters say.
stuckinred
@Mark S.: Yes
AnotherBruce
I can’t believe that you’re still waiting for Soros to tell you what to think after he accidently gave your check to Juan Cole.
jl
If Lincoln survives, it will be interesting to see whether (or how fast or how far) she swings into corporate Democrat mode in her votes.
But, I hope Halter makes up some ground and wins tonight.
Lev
South Carolina: A Legacy of Lunatics, from John C. Calhoun to Pitchfork Ben, from Strom T. to Jimmy D. Throw in some Ravenels and Sanford, and you’ve really got something.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@stuckinred: Don’t forget there is a Democratic Primary for Senate in California, too!! Goat fuckers unite!!
stuckinred
@stuckinred: Rachel say runoff.
beltane
@PeakVT: It didn’t really work that way with Joe Lieberman though.
Lev
@jl: But if Blanche gets primaried, she’s going to have to suck up to corporate types so that she’ll be able to become a lobbyist! She’s too dumb to be a federal judge, too dull even for the Cabinet. She’s got nowhere else to go! This whole scenario seems lose-lose to me.
The Other Chuck
The top story on the GOS shows Karl “The Math” Rove holding up a sign saying “Halter:48 Lincoln:45”.
To which Jed poses this:
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
Voted this morning in L.A. in the Democratic primaries and I’m waiting for the results of Harman versus Winograd. Not much else of interest on the ballot (voted no to most of the initiatives).
arguingwithsignposts
Lady Smudge is disappointed there are no primaries in the land of Lincoln tonight.
Comrade Kevin
What’s the Over/Under on the number of votes Mickey “I Like Goats” Kaus gets against Barbara Boxer?
PeakVT
@beltane: That’s because of CT’s lack of a sore loser law.
Any CT residents here? Has the sore loser loophole been fixed yet?
Anne Laurie
@lamh32:
I understand that the theory behind Dr. Orly Taitz’s campaign is that, if she gets to be Secretary of State, she can refuse to validate Obama’s electoral votes in 2012. So however few votes she gets, I’m assuming the Media Village Idiots will point to a “swelling anti-Obama sentiment even in the liberal state of California”, or something similar.
demimondian
@PeakVT: It wasn’t even the lack of a sore loser law. It was that the law hadn’t been changed when the CT primary for 2006 was moved.
And, yes, it has long since been fixed.
Comrade Kevin
Orly Taitz will not beat Debra Bowen in November, if she happens to win the GOP nomination.
In fact, every thing I have read about it suggests that her winning that nomination would be a disaster for the GOP in California.
LD50
@Lev:
How could you possibly forget Preston Brooks and his modern incarnation, Joe Wilson?
Mr Stagger Lee
Soros told me to pick Dez Bryant for the fantasy football team, he will be rookie of the year, also for Cleveland to faggeddabouit for LeBron and Cleveland
Mark S.
@The Other Chuck:
Write-in votes for Tunch.
Violet
@lamh32:
All of them. Let’s go to Arkansas.
If Halter wins, it’s a rejection of Obama because he supported Lincoln. If Lincoln wins, it’s a rejection of Obama because Obama is supported by the netroots and Halter was their candidate.
See how easy that is? Let’s try in South Carolina.
If Haley wins outright, it’s a rejection of Obama’s policies. If she goes to a runoff, but wins the majority of the votes (as it seems is happening), it’s a show of strength for the teabaggers and repudiation of Obama.
How about California.
If Orly Taitz wins, it shows that the people don’t trust Obama and want him thoroughly investigated. If she loses, it shows that the GOP is showing its muscle and will win big in November.
It’s so easy being a pundit.
Lev
@LD50: Fuck, with that many psychos, you’re bound to miss a few!
LD50
In a way, I kind of hope Taitz gets the nomination. Think of the hilarious TV ads she’ll gift us with this summer & fall.
Plus it’d embarrass the shit out of the GOP, which is just gravy.
d0n camillo
I didn’t get my California mail-in ballot and was going to blow off voting even though Proposition 16 pissed me off. Then I found out Orly Taitz was on the ballot, and doing my duty as a citizen became irresistible. Go Orly! Show ’em what Republicans are really made of.
demimondian
Well, well. We get to keep watching Nikki “Sexytime” Sanford…I mean, Halley…for a few weeks more. OK, that almost makes it worth watching Lincoln fail to lose. Yet.
Violet
@demimondian:
Has that FITS guy said if he’s got more dirt on her to release? I haven’t been following the saga very closely.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Kevin: Can you clarify your comment on the “Is this the right room for an argument thread”?
Do you have posts/threads that show Mmonides has ever actually worked as a climate denier, or was that wicked snark?
demimondian
@Violet: I haven’t heard of any, although the “inconclusive” polygraph test was pretty good. Frankly, without compromising photoshops, I don’t think that it actually beats her.
Elizabelle
@Anoniminous:
So many Californians vote by mail. Turnout at the polls may not tell you that much.
I did hear turnout was strong in Orange County.
Josh
I saw that a Tea Party candidate won the special election in Georgia for a vacant U.S. House seat in a heavily conservative district.
Of course, this means that the Republicans are unstoppable and that the VOICES ARE BEING HEARD!! 111! one
Hoocoodanode that a Tea-bagger would have one in a heavily red district!
The tide is turnin’ on that communistic fascist that usurped the WHITE House.
amirite?
El Cid
Finally — some justice is found in America, and the innocent are preserved from government oppression.
Being that we’re in an economic crisis and spending is getting tighter and tighter with all these wars and economic collapses and oil volcanoes, it’s just not the right time to be focused on increasing the revenue we might get from the spawn of our centi-millionaires and billionaires.
Especially since a major tenet of free market, entrepreneurial capitalism is that we should start with a class of privileged inheritors to begin with their ancestors’ massive, astoundingly huge piles of money. I’m pretty sure Ben Franklin said this was the way to keep innovation and market discipline going among the new generations of entrepreneurs.
I sure hope our government has the will to address the most important problem we face, the deficit, by making sure to tighten our belts by addressing these massive, dangerous social entitlement programs.
El Cid
@Josh: A lot of Georgia Republicans were TeaTards before the movement had a name. They were just right wing crazies back then.
SiubhanDuinne
Okay, I have to admit, this is not a race I’ve been following closely.
Anya
Jesus does not love commies enough to reward us Oraly Taitz’s win.
Josh
@El Cid:
Weren’t they called something else before that? I don’t know. They seem to latch onto whatever happens to be the crazy flavor of the month.
Martin
@El Cid: Actually, it’s not that simple. From the article:
As I understand it, the estate tax also carried with it an exemption from having to pay capital gains – which was the whole point of the tax to begin with. Rather than track all that shit down from your whole life, you pay this flat tax and you’re done with it. Now, the family needs to work out the cost basis on *everything* – shares, property, *everything*. They’d have been better off paying the estate tax than hiring the fucking army of accountants it’ll take to sort that shit out, plus the 15% on top of it.
Josh
@Martin:
Interesting. Thanks for clarifying that, Martin. I have to admit that I know nothing about any of this.
It’s why I’m glad I don’t have money. I wouldn’t know what the hell to do with it.
Martin
Some interesting news out of Cali, unrelated to this election, but related to one 2 years ago. Calitics is reporting that the judge in the prop 8 trial has issued questions to both parties:
That last one is a blockbuster. Maybe having a gay judge try this case will be an issue after all.
Spaghetti Lee
TPM just showed Halter pulling ahead.
SiubhanDuinne
@demimondian #47:
Kind of a “ragheads-to-riches” scenario.
Elisabeth
@arguingwithsignposts:
Lady Smudge is stunning.
Comrade Kevin
@Corner Stone: I follow him on Twitter, and he said that he used to do that, but had seen the light. I wasn’t trying to be an ass or anything, but was actually curious about it.
El Cid
@Martin: I’ll take your word for it. My non-expert impulse would be to guess that 15% + accountant army would be significantly less than 45 or 55%. But then again, that’s just uninformed instinct, not figgerin’.
Martin
@Josh: A friend of ours is neighbors with a woman who has been on the brink of death for a year now. She’s sitting on a 9 figure estate and the family was praying she’d die in 2009. Now they’re doing everything to keep her alive to 2011. Nobody wants to deal with the paperwork that clearing that estate will involve. They’d *much* rather pay the estate tax – even if it was 25%.
The family is die-hard OC Republicans. They were always rallying the cry of the ‘death tax’ until they started talking to the estate planner when mom had her stroke or whatever. They’ve changed their tune until mom is dead, then I’m 100% certain they’ll be right back at it. “I got mine, fuck you” is alive and well.
Martin
@El Cid: That’s true. But the GOP haven’t been arguing for a lower estate tax, rather a repeal of it. They got what they wanted.
But you’re right that just cutting a check for 15% would cover it, but I have an odd feeling that the IRS wouldn’t be happy with that obvious solution and want a full accounting for whatever reason.
MikeJ
@Spaghetti Lee: Arkansas SoS has Lincoln up:
Lincoln(D) 50.45%
Halter(D) 49.55%
http://www.votenaturally.org/electionresults/index.php?ac:show:allcontests=1&elecid=221
phoebes-in-santa fe
Take a look at the faces of the TeaBaggers. 99& white and mostly older. These people, these poor deluded people, yearn for an America of the past, the America they will never see again. The great American “melting pot” took care of that and I’m glad it did.
I am not as scared of the future as some of the readers who have commented. I think the elections of 2006 and 2008 gave rise to a sleeping giant group of voters. These are the voters that have scared the shit out of the TeaBaggers and Republicans. These are the voters that we have to get out to vote this November and in 2012. The early predictions of a “Republican rout” this year are getting less realistic all the time as TeaBaggers and other really conservative Republicans are being nominated. Yes, we’ll lose seats in both houses. Seats that probably shouldn’t have been ours in the first place. But a “rout”? I just don’t think so.
I really feel that the demographics of the US are trending in our favor. We – the Dems – have to stop our infighting long enough to reharness the power we have.
The last eight years have attracted many Americans who were not interested in politics until faced with the over-reaching of the Bush/Cheney administration. These people – god love ’em – are sometimes as naive about the political system as the TeaBaggers on the Right. They expected that within months, the Obama administration would enact the “progressive” ideals they champion, without realising that Obama did not run as a “progressive”. He has spent the last year and a half playing “catch-up”, trying to fix the crises of the past eight years while reacting to the new ones. They are disappointed in Obama and some are already saying they’re staying out of the any future political activity. Not going to vote for that disappointing Obama and other Dems. I have to say that I don’t mind the Republicans bitching as much as I hate the Democratic progressives bitching. We expect complaints and comments from the nuts on the Right, we shouldn’t get them from our own.
Progressives – grow up. Obama and Congress have really done a great job against overwhelming crap from the Right, and the so-called “Beltway Media”.
Last summer, the raucus actions and the violent words at the Town Halls had the media wringing their hands and saying, “Oh, there’s no way Obama can pass HCR”. The election of a Republican to Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat sealed the doom of HCR, according to these same political experts.
Um, WAS Health Care Reform passed?
I seem to remember it was. WAS it as “progressive” as we may have wanted it to be? No, but we will amend the hell out of it in coming years. Curiously, the Civil Rights Acts of the 1960’s began as relatively small but were expanded til they are what they are today.
We need to band together again and get out the vote this November and again in two years. The DCCC, DSCC, and DNC have to cooperate by message-discipline, touting the advances of the Obama administration, and NOT straying from saying how bad the Republicans would be if they were elected back in to power.
“Liked your life from 2001-2009? If so, vote Republican this election”.
“Republicans like to win elections but they don’t like to govern. And governing is what we need right now”.
I mean, these damn ads just about write themselves…
So, let’s keep exposing the TeaBaggers and Republicans for what they are on ALL levels, but let’s also pull together as Democrats.
fucen tarmal
@El Cid:
oh i bet a lot of bodies drop, the “deadline” is dec 31st…tragic, tragic accidents discretely arranged, its the must have gift for the holidays, not that i am spamming the board with my ads for a side business i am running or anything like that.
Josh
@phoebes-in-santa fe:
I am a liberal that is fairly satisfied with the Obama Administration so far. True, I wish they could have done more, but they are facing some pretty long odds.
jl
@phoebes-in-santa fe: OK, cr*p and gosh darn it all, you went and inspired me. I guess I’ll go and knock on doors again this election. Even though I am pretty disappointed by some of Obama’s performance.
But the good old Democrats, bless their miserable political souls, are the best bet we have in the near future.
fucen tarmal
@SiubhanDuinne:
a bollywood ending?
Anoniminous
@Elizabelle:
Thanks.
Heard elsewhere the standard GOP primary voter is White, Male, over 50.
Looking good for Orly?
MikeBoyScout
Tragically underpaid stenographer for the stars, Mark Halperin, has broke another
story…Statement: Sarah Palin Facebook Note June 8, 2010
Mooselini says:
“The current administration may be unaware that it’s the President’s duty, meeting on a CEO-to-CEO level with Hayward, to verify what BP reports.”
Also, too, this:
“So, as a former chief executive, I humbly offer this advice to the President: you must verify. That means you must meet with Hayward.”
WE WANT ORLY! WE WANT ORLY! WE WANT ORLY!
Lev
@MikeBoyScout: Why did Halperin republish that? Doesn’t he know that if we’re interested in what Ms. Palin has to say on Facebook, we can send her a friend request?
I guess it’s news because she might run for president. If she does, she’ll run a campaign that will make Giuliani ca. 2008 look like Obama ca. 2008.
Anne Laurie
@Comrade Kevin:
Which won’t keep our Main Scream Media from trumpeting Orly’s hard-earned 11% of today’s primary votes as proof that “everybody” is “disillusioned” with President Obama, will it.
El Cid
Turkey has become a weird, irrational state creating havoc in the Middle East. Something must be done.
Right! How can you be a real ally and not do every single thing the U.S. wants no matter the consequences to your nation and your other allies?
Besides, what an irrational, lunatic point of view! What ‘havoc’? Surely, for example, he cannot mean Iraq, where what minor problems did exist were fixed by THE SUUUUURGE (TM).
Bizarrely, some crazy American thinker said something in the article which was totally not proper groupthink about how Turkey’s government went all wacky just because Israeli forces shot some of its civilian aid activists repeatedly in the head and back in international waters.
Of course. How could the U.S. accept an offer it didn’t make!
Batocchio
Still waiting on results out here in CA, but I’m pretty sure Mickey Kaus won’t be making a victory speech.
El Cid
@Batocchio: There’s always another goat to fuck somewhere.
mai naem
Blanche won. Ugh ugh ugh. This is going to make her even a bigger corporate shill. Ugh. Another bunch of idiots voting against their own interests.
burnspbesq
@fucen tarmal:
There should be an autopsy and a criminal investigation into the death of anyone worth more than $5 million who dies this year.
Spaghetti Lee
@mai naem:
I don’t know…she’s not going to beat Boozman in November, and we’ve seen what happens to politicians this year when they see retirement coming on.
jl
@mai naem: That is too bad. I see AP has called the election. I will hope for a last minute surprise.
If Lincoln’s lead holds, unfortunately we will have a chance to see how fast and how far she backtracks. An unfortunate ‘natural experiment’ in political science.
I will stay up late and see how Kaus does against Boxer! That will be fun.
And where is the Wrestling ex exec lady running?
edit: Spaghett Lee has a good point. Lincoln will have to cash in over the summer, ’cause she probably will get her political walking papers in November.
tkogrumpy
@stevie314159: Fortunately, I can’t hear her up here in Maine.
Cain
@demimondian:
So did the republicans manage to lose the indian vote? I mean calling Sikhs ragheads probably doesn’t play well with the Indian crowd.
On the other hand, I’m sure her parents are not liking the whole infidelity thing I can see some bad shit going down there.
cain
Lev
@Spaghetti Lee: Frankly, Bill Halter wasn’t too likely to beat Boozman either, but at least with Blanche the DSCC can cut their losses early. Not that they’ll need to. Blanche will be getting plenty of money from Tyson Chicken and Wal-Mart.
I guess I understand this a little better if Bill Clinton maybe pushed the numbers a few points, but didn’t Blanche run a pretty awful campaign? Anti-union stuff in a Democratic primary? Weird. Clinton must have been the game-changer (an expression I already hate myself for using).
burnspbesq
@phoebes-in-santa fe:
I love your attitude, but, srsly.
That’s approximately as likely as me dunking on Dwight Howard. And no, I am not 6’10”.
burnspbesq
@Cain:
What’s the Bollywood ending here? Does the husband go on statewide TV and say he doesn’t care whether she was unfaithful with the entire Gamecock football team, he still loves her and will stand by her forever?
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
We have proof that elections are fixed! Blow up the machines! TPM shows that Carly Fiorina has the fewest votes counted, but she is ahead with 668% of the vote!
tkogrumpy
@Josh: I preferred it when they were called the silent majority.
jl
@burnspbesq: I suggest the SC state office holders do Bollywood song and dance with the Gamecocks. That would be fun. It would be SC’s breakthrough into cool state regional culture. Kind of like OR or WA, except conservative.
Sanford couldn’t do that, since his schtick was kind of creepy.
Nikki, and all the others in the limelight now have a more exciting and wholesome sexytime vibe.
Man or woman, this way or that, if you visit SC, maybe a state officeholder will be interested in a wholesome one night stand. Could make for an interesting tourist ad campaign.
Cain
@burnspbesq:
Well there is the whole singing and dancing thing so.. yeah. There’ll be a big singing and dance songer, something catchy..
cain
Corner Stone
@Comrade Kevin: Ok, thanks. I honestly didn’t know, either way.
It’s good to know, thanks.
mai naem
Apparently the Nikki Sexytime Haley’s opponents thought that she was singing Jai Ho with quite a different meaning.
And Another Thing...
Ohmygawd…cable just showed a pic of Jerry Brown…he’s looking old. I haven’t been following his career in the last 20 years except knowing that he was mayor of Oakland. Is he still “out there” and does he have a chance of getting elected guv?
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
And now it’s gone. Cover up!
Mike Kay
aahahhahhahahahahhahahahhahaha
Jane Hamsher is the BIGGEST hillary Clinton PUMA alive and her candidate, Bill Halter, just lost in large part because of Hillary’s husband.
Heh!
uloborus
@burnspbesq:
I’m not sure I’ve ever agreed with you before, but by God, this.
It’s the downside of actually BEING the big tent party. The Republicans can have all the absolute yahoos who think Obama’s from Kenya, and we’ll get everybody who merely cut each other in the street over policy disagreements. Unfortunately, this means that Democratic unity is a pipe dream.
I’m still gonna say mean things about Jane Hamsher, because it makes me feel cool and I’m pretty sure she’s actually in the aforementioned ‘yahoo’ category.
Uloborus + really funky insomnia meds
Comrade Luke
I looked at the NY Times front page, and based on what they were showing I thought there were no Democratic primaries. WTF.
burnspbesq
OT: Strasburg looked ridiculous in his debut. His first career strikeout came on a pitch sequence that was just unfair.
99 mph fastball, up and in, called strike.
90 mph curve, inner half, called strike.
83 mph changeup, in the dirt, swung on and missed.
It’s not hype. He really is that good.
Comrade Kevin
@And Another Thing…:
He sure does. He will easily win the Democratic nomination, and I think he has a pretty good chance of beating Meg Whitman, who’s going to win the GOP nomination. Whitman and her main opponent, Steve Poizner, have spent months destroying each other in their primary fight.
Comrade Kevin
@Mike Kay: It’s amazing the lengths to which you will go to force a mention of your secret love, Jane Hamsher, into absolutely anything.
Mike Kay
so are they crying over at GOS?
They keep failing at this game.
Dean
Edwards
Lamont
Halter
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: 14 K’s and 0 BB in 7 innings.
Martin
@And Another Thing…: He’s a bit out there, yeah, but less so than most (any) of the candidates on the right. And odds are on him winning. He’s up in the polls. The guy has held damn near every office in state, so of course he can win. I wonder if any governor has ever gone 18 years between terms?
Nick
Halter lost? Unpossible. I thought everyone in Arkansas wanted to have sex with the public option?
Josh
@Mike Kay:
I met Dean when he was the front-runner. Really good guy in person. My bullshit detector (which went off the charts when I was in the presence of John Edwards once) didn’t really make a blip when I was around him.
He has a negative reputation that I really believe is undeserved.
Mike Kay
@Comrade Kevin: Oh please. She was a big halter supporter. This coupled with her Hillary PUMAism and Bubba’s two fisted campaigning against halter and, in Bill’s words, “purity”, is too rich to overlook.
But you go ahead, she’s cute so I understand why shut-ins give her a pass.
And Another Thing...
@Comrade Kevin: and @Martin: Thanks. I hope he’s a good guv cause Calif sure needs one.
Comrade Kevin
@Mike Kay: You’re the one who can’t stop talking about her on this blog.
Anoniminous
Bad news out of California
Dunn is leading Ms. Orly 74% to 26% (rounding) 8 and change precincts reporting.
Looks like the CaGOP aren’t suicidal after all.
Martin
@And Another Thing…: Yeah, Jerry will definitely liven the place up if he wins. With a few more legislatives seats, we could do some real damage, but the GOP still holds a disproportionate amount of power here.
Mike Kay
@Josh: I like Dean, as well.
My comment focused on how overrated GOS is. For all their huffing and puffing, they have yet to win anything, 8 years into operations. Even though they act otherwise.
Martin
Annnnnnd every voter initiative is coming in exactly the opposite as it should. Our initiative process is like playing russian roulette, but every chamber is loaded.
Lev
@Josh: I saw Dean in mid-2003 in some sort of town hall in New Hampshire, I think. My impression of the guy was highly favorable at first. He really seemed to have the common touch and seemed completely at ease with regular people. Pretty funny, too. I predicted that he’d get nominated, which might well have happened if he’d just done grassroots politicking in Iowa instead of leading his crusade–right as he was, his tone needlessly scared the shit out of so many people. Chait’s right: the guy has the soul of a radical, which is part of what I think held him back. The other part is the classic Democratic problem of being so obsessed with policy that you forget the politics of it.
RE: Health Care Reform
Karen
@d0n camillo:
So if someone in the California Republican Party offers her a job not to run, does that mean that’s not illegal?
Martin
Heh, landed in moderation for saying a game of chance. Sigh.
MikeJ
I just listened to the This American Life ep, “Real Urban Legends”, half of which is about Poizner. Glad to see him getting clobbered.
Mark S.
Did Jane and Glenn’s PAC have any other candidates than Halter? Cause that ain’t much to show for $250 grand.
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne:
Ragheads to Riches.
Inspired, Ms. Siubhan.
Mike Kay
@Comrade Kevin: and you’re the one giving her a pass. I’m sure you wouldn’t be so lienent if she was a fat pig. Dude, you gotta get out more often and meet some women who are actually good looking.
Nevertheless, facts are facts: this trainwreck were the PUMAs get shived by
BrutusBubba is too delicious to ignore. Ed Schultz, Olbermann, and Rachel were on MSNBC crying over halter’s loss.Fern
@Mike Kay: So now you just have to mention DFHs and/or old people and your job is done for tonight! Good work!
Elizabelle
@Martin:
Martin: where are you?
I am in Los Angeles area.
Just curious. Not stalkin’.
Mike Kay
@Mark S.: Shhhh, don’t be so mean to Jane. You’ll hurt Kevin’s feelings to point out the trainwreck.
jl
‘were a fat pig’ is appropriate here. subjunctive needed, I think.
Grammar police lurk at this here blog, and you don’t want them jumping on you. They make the FDLers look mild by comparison.
Elizabelle
@Mike Kay:
In all honesty, it’s in some ways Halter’s win.
He almost took down a sitting Senator of his party.
I think you will hear more from Mr. Halter.
I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. Was absolutely rooting for Halter, but had liked Blanche Lincoln prior to the healthcare reform sausage-making …
Mike Kay
@Fern: GOS 0 – 4
Josh
@Mike Kay:
Ah, yes. I’ve never been a fan of the GOS. Try having a conversation on one of those boards. Ugh.
It’s getting to be that way with Think Progress now as well. So many trolls have taken over that site that trying to maintain a civilized discussion is impossible (and if you are in disagreement with anyone in any way, someone labels you a troll and when you reject that label, it is proof of your guilt to other posters).
@Lev:
Yeah. I forget that sometimes substance isn’t the best way to go. As much as people claim to hate politics, they sure do love it, don’t they?
I still have my Howard Dean For America button and my “LET’S SEE CLEARLY WITH HOWARD DEAN” ice-scraper for my windshield.
Mike Kay
@Elizabelle: yeah, who cares about actual victories, hippies only care about the cast-party.
burnspbesq
@Elizabelle:
Martin’s in Irvine, I think.
kay
@Anoniminous:
It doesn’t matter. She won’t stop. Each loss just makes her more determined.
There’s no cure for what ails Orly. Vengeance will be hers!
Orly will pursue her imagined enemy until she ruins someone’s life. It’s nice that the millionaire media punditry and Karl Rove and GOP House members find this obsessive horror show profitable.
She gives me the creeps.
Elizabelle
Thanks, Mr. Burns. He is south of me, deeper behind the “Orange Curtain.”
I still see Sore-Loserman posters in garages when I’m biking in the OC.
Mike Kay
@Josh:
This! Thank you for proving my point. This is part of the reason why I loath them and take glee in their fuck ups (Edwards being the biggest).
Martin
@burnspbesq: Yes indeed.
Martin
@Mike Kay: Corporatist shill! Obot!
handy
For the love of Pete, CA voters, just this once can you resist the temptation to vote for Big Energy and Big Insurance giveaways? Just once ? Pretty please!
AnotherBruce
What’s up with the GOS hate? I mean, I don’t have much interest in their comment boards either, but I appreciate their activism. Do you resent that? Do you hate Howard Dean or Ned Lamont? Did you hate that someone would have the nerve to challenge the wonderful Joe Lieberman or Blanche Lincoln?
Or maybe your message is that people shouldn’t attempt activism and work for the candidates of their choice. Leave those big decisions to the party leaders.
I like most of the commenters here, but I truly don’t get the hate that drives people like Mike Kay. Kos and the overwhelming majority of the people at that site support Obama and quite enthusiastically. Because he is occasionally criticized does not mean that he is not supported. This site is weird in the way certain people’s hate for progressives (liberals) is manifested. I get the feeling that there is a certain amount of guilt among some of the commenters here for being former Bush supporters. Maybe some are DLCers who hate liberals. Sorry, but we get enough of that from Republicans. In the circular firing squad that a lot of Democrats complain about, a lot of the shots are being fired here first.
Martin
@Elizabelle: We’re turning our little corner of OC blue. Obama won in this city. We’re trying to unseat John Campbell next. Bit by bit…
Comrade Kevin
@Mike Kay: If you think I’m a fan of Jane Hamsher, you really have your head up your ass even farther than you usually do.
Comrade Kevin
@handy:
Well, I voted against 16 and 17.
Nick
@AnotherBruce:
I appreciate their activism, I don’t appreciate that it is very often counterproductive. Who the fuck thought spending millions on dollars trying to elect a liberal in Arkansas was a good fucking idea?
To quote Gandhi; I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they’re so unlike your Christ.
Comrade Luke
@AnotherBruce:
Many of the Democrats here are people who left the Republican party. They’re not going to go from pro-Bush to leftie, so I get some of the hate even though I don’t agree with it.
What I don’t get is the Obot stuff. I think it’s crazy to blindly agree with the administration – ANY administration – just because they’re the same party as you.
But you have to take the good with the bad I guess. When I read the comments here I assume that most of the Democratic converts are more disenchanted conservatives who are currently voting for Democrats because they have no other options, which helps. At least I learn something and can have constructive discussions with them, as opposed to anyone that still affiliates themselves with the Republican party. Those people, which sadly includes some friends and relatives, are batshit insane.
uloborus
@AnotherBruce:
That… would presumably be from people like me who used to read the KoS board until, day after day, it seemed packed with screaming anti-Obama rants.
Now, apparently this does not reflect the headliners. Honest, I find KoS difficult to read. I’m not even sure who the headliners are. But when you glance at KoS and eventually all you see are explanations of how Obama has let us down today, I personally stopped reading. Others become a bit grumpy.
I had much the same experience with Digby and Glenn. In the end, it had less to do with the anti-Obama position as the kinds of arguments being made. The locals to Balloon Juice are mostly the kind of people who go ‘I’m sorry, did we or did we not get Health Care Reform after a hundred years of failures?’ and get pissed when this is seen as anything but a gigantic liberal triumph against incredible odds. Unrelenting negativity and declarations that Obama is somehow inherently evil fly in the face of the evidence we see. Maybe KoS officially does not support positions like that, but I know it’s all I saw every time I looked at it.
Mind you, the locals are severely divided about which blogs they like, but I think that’s the motivation of the ‘hippie-punching’ contingent, which includes me.
Martin
@Nick:
Uh, Jane did. Seriously.
(I wasn’t trying to pile onto Jane, honest)
MattR
California Democratic primary for US Senate (18% reporting)
Barbara Boxer 524,614 77.5%
Brian Quintana 13,587 16.8%
Robert M. “Mickey” Kaus 38,803 5.7%
burnspbesq
@Elizabelle:
I am stuck in OC for two more years, until the kid graduates from OCHSA. After that, all bets are off.
HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist
I haven’t read through this thread (ugh), but earlier today I heard Mike Malloy read a post from communist John Cole. Workers of the world, unite.
robertdsc
Their blog posts scan out awful to me sometimes. Somehow I don’t think snark or personalized writing works for a think tank.
burnspbesq
@MattR:
If I ruled the world, that would be 38,803 people who wouldn’t be allowed to breed.
AnotherBruce
Who the fuck thought spending millions on dollars trying to elect a liberal in Arkansas was a good fucking idea?
First of all, I do not think that word means what you think it does. Bill Halter is not exactly a flaming liberal, he was in fact the elected Lieutenant Governor of Arkansas, not quite the hippie you thought he was. But even if he was, so fucking what? Incumbents should never be challenged? I’m sorry but you know it is supposedly a representative democracy that we have, and Lincoln is not exactly the most electable poll right now.
As I said, you people are fucking weird. Maybe you should get used to being a Democrat and challenge your own party once in awhile, or go back to the Republican party where they demand fealty to the king. At any rate, your mind set is winning the day right now, so I’m sure you’ll enjoy the return to feudalism.
MattR
@burnspbesq: It is still 125 thousand fewer votes than Orly Taitz has gotten so far. Those people should not be allowed to vote or breed.
Corner Stone
@Martin: Nobody, anywhere, ever, said Halter was a liberal.
Nick
@AnotherBruce:
Well someone should tell the pipe dreamers over ast GOS and OpenLeft.
Depends, where are you challenging them and why? Spending $10 million to try to elect a labor Democrat in a right to work state when the Democratic Party’s majorities are on the line is just plain crazy.
Spending it against a war supporter in an anti-war state in a year when your party is doing well makes sense.
That $10 million could have been better spent, I don’t know, one someone like Jennifer Brunner.
Nick
@Corner Stone: Oh Bullshit, I’ve seen at least 20 people identify him as such on like five different blogs tonight alone.
Now that he lost, you’re going to pretend like the left never thought of him as a liberal?
who the fuck do you think you’re fooling?
Corner Stone
@Nick: Lincoln is going to get crushed in the general.
Martin
@AnotherBruce: My problem with DKos is that they are every bit as ideological in their approach as the teabaggers. (That’s not always been the case, but it’s gotten worse there since HCR.)
They’ll jump up and down about how horrible Obama is for wanting to swap in natural gas for oil as part of our energy policy, and yet they’ll also absolutely oppose nuclear, biodiesel, and most of the reasonable solutions that would take us off of coal and oil. They want wind and solar and nothing more. It’s insane.
Some of their efforts are reasonable – primarying dems that are behind GOP frontrunners is not unreasonable. But their criticism of Dems (Obama, whoever) is not reasonable when they offer no positive policy suggestions against that. The result is that they paint a picture that Dems cannot govern, not that they aren’t supporting sufficiently progressive policies – and they are unyielding on compromise. No public option was totally unacceptable. Had Obama gotten the public option, that would have been unacceptable because it wasn’t single payer. That’s how it goes – every position is too far right, and if it’s moved left, there’s some new farther left goal that they’re critical wasn’t met.
Corner Stone
@Nick: Who? Link it up please.
Corner Stone
@Nick: This is from the FDL post Martin himself cites:
“Bill Halter’s no raging liberal. But he is a Democrat, whereas Lincoln is a corporatist.”
So…wtf?
Nick
@Corner Stone: So would Halter, which is why this was a big waste of money.
Martin
@Corner Stone: Actually, lots of people have, but I agree with you. I don’t think primarying Lincoln was necessarily a bad idea, based on her polling, but there was never enough support behind Halter to win with any confidence. Like so many of these things, there wasn’t nearly enough support there (even for a known candidate like Halter) and it just ended up being a waste of resources. Lincoln won’t get shit for support now and she’ll just get massacred.
AnotherBruce
@uloborus:
Fair enough, but I haven’t seen it. Maybe I’ve been on GOS on different days than you. And then again, I don’t get into the dairies and comments. Honestly I think that Obama is a good President with a chance to be great. I understand what a crap political culture has evolved over the last 30 years and that Obama has been pretty realistic in navigating it. Actually what has dissappointed me more than anything is how much Democrats in general have internalized Republican talking points and I think this is what is causing frustration on the left.
I wish that liberals had the patience that conservatives do when it comes to politics. It’s going to take a long time to turn things around and then there is no guarantee that they will turn around. It’s going to take a long time and a lot of persistance.
Martin
@Corner Stone: I wasn’t supporting the assertion that Halter is a liberal. I was merely pointing out that this whole thing was Jane’s idea from the get-go.
Corner Stone
@Nick: Please link to these 20 people on 5 different blogs.
Nick
@Corner Stone: That’s the thing about post-mortems Corner, you can say what you want a pretend its true. I don’t really care what Jane Hamsher thought because she’s irrelevant. I don’t read anything she writes, I pretend she doesn’t exist, like everyone else does.
I don’t need to throw around links to prove to you that a lot of people thought he was a liberal, especially on GOS and OpenLeft.
Or is it you just read FDL, where Paul Wellstone was a Conservadem?
Corner Stone
@Martin: What? You answered Nick’s question:
“Who the fuck thought spending millions on dollars trying to elect a liberal in Arkansas was a good fucking idea?”
with:
Jane did. Seriously.
And linked to her post where she herself said Halter wasn’t a liberal.
Comrade Luke
An excuse can always be made to support the incumbent. Also, given that Lincoln was polling 20pts behind the Republican I don’t see how this affects majorities either way. She’s gonna lose.
What I find annoying is that this place is always saying people need to step up and fight the good fight, stay involved, start at the bottom and build, etc. That’s was GOS is trying to do, with little to no backing from the party (as opposed to the teabaggers) and they’re being mocked for it here.
I don’t support what Hamsher’s been doing at all, but Kos as far as I can tell is trying to do the right thing. And unfortunately, that means losing a lot of the time, but hopefully a little less each time, until you finally start winning.
Corner Stone
@Nick:
Ok, so you can’t provide links to 20 people on 5 different blogs. Thanks.
Nick
@Comrade Luke:
Because Labor blew $10 million on a lost cause, We could end up losing Senate races in IL, IN, OH, PA, NC, DE, KY, CO, NV, WA, NH.
A better investment would have been to let Lincoln sink or swim on her own and put the money into Jennifer Brunner or Joe Sestak or Michael Bennet or Elaine Marshall or Jack Conway. You know, candidates who stand a chance at winning.
Instead they blew millions of dollars trying to get revenge for a Senator who, one way or the other, wouldn’t be in office next year just because they had their feelings hurt.
Nick
@Corner Stone: I don’t need to. I’m not going through diary after diary to prove to you something everyone, including yourself, knows.
Corner Stone
@Martin:
She was never going to win the general. Let’s not confuse this any further.
Comrade Luke
@Nick:
You’ve got to be kidding. You’re seriously saying that Labor could be blamed for losses in ELEVEN states because they supported Halter?
Maybe a better question is: if everything has been going so great, why are eleven Senate seats up for grabs in the first place?
Corner Stone
@Nick:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Corner Stone
@Nick: You can’t even nutpick of GOS to back your stupid bullshit up? Much less 20 people off 5 different blogs?
Fuck you.
Jenny
@Comrade Luke:
$10 Million could have been better spent defeating a republican or defending an endangered liberal like boxer.
but alas, if it feeels good, do it. waste resources like a petulant trust fund baby.
Comrade Luke
@Corner Stone:
Do you think Halter stood a better chance in the general?
That’s a serious question; I have no idea.
Martin
Looks like Orly will get about 750,000 votes. Only 25% though, she not even breaking the crazification threshold.
Comrade Luke
@Jenny:
I’m sorry that independent organizations aren’t spending their money in exactly the way that you’d prefer.
And I’m the whiner?
Nick
@Corner Stone: No, because unlike you, i have a life. I’m not going to shuffle through blogs to try to prove an obvious point. It wouldn’t change your mind anyway.
You lost and the only way you can accept it is by pretending no one ever thought the guy was liberal anyway, because God forbid a “liberal” should ever LOSE to a conservative in a Democratic primary. That can never happen, right?
stupid bullshit, the only stupid bullshit is the obvliious firebagger crap coming out of your keyboard
Corner Stone
@Nick:
And let me guess, you backed Specter in PA too, right?
God damn son, just go back to the Republican Party for fuck’s sake.
Oh wait, did I just HT you?
Comrade Luke
@Martin:
I agree with you on GOS. There are two different things going on there. I support challenging people in the primaries, but I’m not a big fan of ideological purity tests.
The problem I have with this place is that it’s just as ideological as the rest, except the ideology is…Obama.
Nick
@Comrade Luke:
Yes, absolutely. In many of those races, only a fraction of that $10 million is the difference between winning and losing.
Well four of them are Republican seats, the other seven are Democratic Seats. Why are they in play? Because Democrats have 59 Senate seats despite the fact that only won 52% of the popular vote in 2008;
AnotherBruce
Well someone should tell the pipe dreamers over ast GOS and OpenLeft.
You know, this is what drives me crazy about Mike Kay’s posts.
Honestly, you base your support or lack thereof for a candidate based on what Jane Hamsher or Kos think of them? Really? You know, I’ve been researching candidates and giving them voluteer time, money and my votes before I ever read a blog. I voted for Republicans before they all went insane. I may vote for them again if any of them ever become sane again. I don’t depend on one source for my information.
Try to keep up, Bill Halter was elected to office in Arkansas, he’s not a hippie no matter what Hamsher or Kos may think. And I suspect that they don’t think what you think they think. In all the polls I saw he was either tied or ahead of Lincoln in head to head match ups with Boozman. It’s not a crime against the Democratic challenger to vote against an incumbent. Sheesh.
Comrade Kevin
@Nick:
In other words, no, I can’t back my statements up. The “I have a life” excuse is pretty funny, considering you’re posting on a blog at 10:50/11:50/12:50/1:50 on a Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Luke: Yes, I do. Halter was not a liberal, no matter what stupid shit Nick keeps trying on, and he held elected office as a D.
Lincoln has clearly worn out her welcome with the D faction, given that as an incumbent she won some 51% of the vote, and she will now tack right into the general.
Given the choice between an R, or an R-wannabe, it’s pretty clear she’s a duck.
Halter may or may not have won that Senate seat, but IMO, he had a much better base to fight for it.
Nick
@Corner Stone:
I didn’t back anybody in either race, but I see you missed my point about how primaries “depend” and mentioned how Lamont was a good primary because he was running a state where he could win.
Pennsylvania is NOT Arkansas. Any idiot can see that, or do you need links?
Martin
@Corner Stone: Well, she was polling no worse than Halter until the pressure was turned up on the primary. I’m not sure either one would have won.
But why are we throwing big money up against Clinton? That’s just suicide in his home state.
Comrade Kevin
@Nick:
I thought you “had a life”, and couldn’t be bothered with something so obvious.
Corner Stone
@Nick:
But it’s not an obvious point or else you would’ve already laid down 5 links of actual commentary to back up what you claimed – “20 people on 5 different blogs”.
Since you can’t, and since you’ve now invoked the dreaded firebagger moniker, it’s way fucking obvious that you’re just a lying wanker.
So wank on bro, wank on.
Nobody who’s ever heard of Arkansas has ever stated Halter was a liberal.
Jenny
@Comrade Luke:
?? I didn’t call you a whiner. But go ahead play the victim, that’s what the self pittying blogosphere does (GOS/FDL, etc) and act as if there was no coordination between online groups and old line interest groups (it was all just a coincidence).
Ailuridae
@Comrade Luke:
That’s what the polling said and by a reasonable margin too IIRC. FWIW, I don’t think Lincoln will get crushed to the extent the polls are saying. Pick a pollster who polled before the primary and I am pretty sure you will find that the gap between Lincoln and Boozman narrows now that the results are in.
She’s still going to lose though.
lenn23
@uloborus: I agree with your point one hundred percent. I’ve deleted half of my bookmarks over the past year. It’s just that the unrelenting negativity and whining has become too much. By the way, Mike Kay, I supported Edwards in the primaries.
Comrade Kevin
Orly Taitz looks like she will get around 25% of the GOP vote for Secretary of State. I predict this: Nobody in the media will make anything of it, other than the possibility that 25% of the GOP primary voters are crazy people.
Corner Stone
@Martin: And Rendell went for Specter in PA.
I don’t know if Halter could’ve won or not, but I’m 100% sure Lincoln will not.
WJC backing Lincoln just guaranteed the seat goes R.
Ailuridae
@Comrade Kevin:
Nobody in the media would ever suggest that 25% of the Republican party are crazy people despite ample evidence that is the case.
Comrade Kevin
@Ailuridae: Well, I did suggest it was a “possibility”, and not a big one at that.
Nick
@Corner Stone:
I still can’t believe you can type this with a straight face.
Anne Laurie
@burnspbesq:
But the poor goats! Won’t somebody think of the goats?!?
Nick
@Comrade Kevin: Someone needs to go to the doctor and check their sarcasm gland.
Comrade Kevin
@Nick: Right, sure. “Sarcasm”. Uh huh.
Martin
Woo! Prop 16 just slipped into the ‘no’ category. It’s close, but it’s better than the ‘yes’ category. 17 is tightening, but still passing.
Mark S.
@Anne Laurie:
I never thought of the goats as willing participants.
Comrade Kevin
@Martin: Goddamn, I hope that 16 vote holds. That was the worst thing on the ballot in California.
Donald G
@Martin:
In case no one has answered your question by the time I post this, West Virginia’s former Republican governor Cecil Underwood has the distinction of being both his state’s youngest and oldest elected governor. Underwood first took office in January 1957 and left office four years later. He was elected to his second term forty years later in 1996 (taking office in January 1997), so he went 36 years between terms.
Martin
@Donald G: Holy crap! Does that mean if Jerry wins we’re going to have to re-elect him in another two decades?
But that’s seriously cool that Underwood was both youngest and oldest.
Ailuridae
No excitement at all for the Sharron Angle victory in Nevada Senate GOP Primary? She might have been polling better versus Reid than Lowden but I think this greatly increases the chances he retains the Senate seat as she is absolutely batshit fucking crazy.
Donald G
@Martin:
I was about to quip that that distinction was probably the only cool thing about Cecil, since he was a Monsanto executive, but it looks like he may have actually accomplished some good things in the 1950’s, such as continuing the desegregation of the public schools and supporting civil rights legislation.
He was the first Republican to be elected governor of the state since the election of 1928, and he probably wouldn’t have been elected governor again in 1996 if conservative Democrats hadn’t rebelled against that election’s nominee, Charlotte Pritt, and thrown their support to Underwood.
Uriel
@AnotherBruce:
Oh fucking please.
Let me get this straight:
a) Obama wins the primary and the presidency as the left’s candidate- winning a clear majority of the electorate’s votes, which would by necissity include both progressives and moderates. And which, as I recall, once upon-a-time, was great fucking news for the liberal side of the isle, as evidenced by all the high-fiving and self congratulatory back slapping on the part of the left-o-sphere that went on at the time. He then goes on on to advance initiatives and govern in exactly the manner he said he would. Which, you know seems to be both be his right and even his duty, given that he was elected by a wide coalition of interests to do exactly that.
No problem here, apart from the normal give and take every day politics.
But!
B) A small portion of the populous that checked his name notices that he isn’t doing exactly what they want him to do! Even though what they expected runs totally contrary to everything he suggested he would do in the previous election- all they know is: banks aren’t being nationalized! Afghanistan is not immediately on stand down! No public option! Oil wells sometimes break down! Rainbows and unicorns are withheld! And so-
They attack! Vociferously, vehemently, and seemingly without focus! But that’s ok, because, well, holding his feet to the fire and loyal opposition and principal and such. It’s the American pastime, after all. In no way at all should this be construed as undermining the liberal cause.
After which- c) another portion of the voters who checked his name just the same as the group in (b) have the unmitigated gall to respond by noting that he never promised any of those things in the first place, and that ripping him a new one, from his own side, over every imaginary broken promise that the president never made might be just a wee bit unconstructive, and could actually slightly feed into the stated goals and narritives of the clearly lunatic opposition.
Which should be just as valid as the opinion the folks in (b) have except OH MY GOD STOP PUNCHING US HIPPIES YOU CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD CORPORATIST MESSIANIC AUTOMATONS HOW DARE YOU QUESTION OUR PURITY! JUST REMEMBER YOU STARTED THIS NOT US!
That about it, sparky?
The Raven
What a damn mess! Halter…that always was a long shot and when they shut down over 30 polling places it was pretty clear the fix was in. Be worth it to have Ms. BP out, but on the other hand, she may fight for financial regulation, just to polish her image, so maybe some good will come out of it. On the other hand, she may just lose in the general election. Big oil is suddenly unpopular in Southern states–can’t imagine why.
California… Birther Orly Taitz and tea partier Poizner lost. It looks like prop 16 is also going to go down by a hair. But that’s the best news. The state’s primary system is going to be a shambles (provided prop 14 survives court challenges.) “Demon Sheep” Fiorina is going to be the R candidate for Senate. Mercury Insurance gets the state insurance regs rewritten in its favor (prop. 17.)
I think the bottom line is: no change.
Martin
Woo! 17 is now in the ‘no’ column. Less than 1% down, but it’s a start. 16 is now losing by 3 points – that’s more encouraging.
bob h
In NJ, many self-funded hedge fund managers running. Government by ex tech CEO’s and hedge fund managers?
angler
@Nick: firebaggers! go git em, git git!
burnspbesq
@Martin:
It is depressing to think of how many Firebaggers and other bizarre species of left-leaning Dems don’t seem to comprehend that when the goal is “more and better Democrats,” aiding and abetting the defeat of Democrats is not a step in the right direction.
Shalimar
@Uriel: If you think Obama has governed in “exactly the manner he said he would” across the board, then you aren’t paying attention. There are real reasons to be disappointed with the administration on a number of issues. If you want to say he has governed closer to the way he campaigned than any other president in the last century, that would be a more defensible argument.
In general, I think Obama has been a good president. Certainly better than anyone else since Johnson, who also had his major flaws. The problem in my opinion is that the last 30 years have put the country in such a steep decline that it would take a historically great president to do anything more than bide time before the next Republican starts us down the hill again. And Obama isn’t that kind of person, even though the “change” message fooled many into thinking he understood what was required.
So again, imo, most of the frustration with Obama is really frustration that we aren’t going to find the brakes and our slide down the hill into international irrelevancy is becoming irreversible. Which isn’t his fault for not being great. Obama is generally doing a good job, which is a welcome relief after Bush. It’s just unfortunate that historically it won’t be good enough to make a difference.
kay
Only on the internet does losing a primary mean “would have won the general”.
He lost the primary. That’s why we have primaries, to determine which Democrat gets the most votes.
I don’t have any problem with challenging an incumbent in a primary, but pretending the loser would have won the general is just delusional.
How do you ever lose, the way you’ve set this up?
If Lincoln loses the general, the response will be “Halter would have won. We’re right again!”
You were apparently wrong about the Democratic primary electorate in Arkansas. That, to a rational person, means you’re less credible on predictions on the general. You can’t take the loss as a win.
kay
@burnspbesq:
The “outside groups” argument that Clinton made against Halter is really effective in rural areas. Rural voters resent the hell out of outside groups coming in.
Republicans use it here, and it wins, reliably, when Grover Norquist comes in and tries to challenge an incumbent.
Lincoln positioned herself as the local being attacked by Big Labor and out of state liberals.
4jkb4ia
Surly comment that no one has expressed happiness over the jungle primary in CA.
uloborus
@AnotherBruce:
I think if you’ll look around, you’ll find that exactly this sentiment is dominant here, and KoS is merely perceived as one of the sites that is refusing to acknowledge political realities and demanding some kind of instant fix that doesn’t exist. KoS is huge, with enough posters that maybe this is a false perception, but lord knows I got it.
I believe what you’re running into is that this is a passionate and tumultous blog. The locals like to fling around the insults and half-read what you’ve said. What I like is that in the middle of calling you a mouthbreathing australopithecine poop flinger you’ll see a lot of them lay out really well thought out arguments. They’re smart and nuanced, they’re just loud and smart and nuanced! This does mean some threads devolve into screaming matches. What can you do?
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: Sigh.
Corner Stone
@kay: Holy Jeebus Cracker!
Can you read at all? The damn quote you pulled from me says:
“I don’t know if Halter could’ve won or not”
And you go on to bald faced lie about what I said and state that it means:
“but pretending the loser would have won the general is just delusional.”
Where the hell does this kind of flat out lying garbage come from? Please find where I said anywhere that even though Halter lost he would have definitely won the general.
I’ve been very clear to state I don’t know how he would have done in the general. I’ve also been clear that IMO Lincoln can not win.
How do you get to this:
“Only on the internet does losing a primary mean “would have won the general”.” From what I said?
And in fact, @185 I said this, :
“Halter may or may not have won that Senate seat, but IMO, he had a much better base to fight for it.”
You’re just fucking lying again.