I guess this means Obama is weak:
The President has relieved Gen, Stanley McChrystal of his command over U.S. forces in Afghanistan and will install Gen. David Petraeus, the architect of the Iraq surge and counterinsurgency strategy, in his place. MORE…
I have no opinion on this. On the one hand, McChrystal said the kind of shit that gets you fired. On the other, comparisons with D-Mac were greatly exaggerated. It ain’t the same fuckin’ ballpark, it ain’t the same league, it ain’t even the same fuckin’ sport.
Cacti
McChrystal was just a boorish loudmouth.
McArthur tried to provoke a war with China against direct orders to the contrary.
Not even close to the same.
Farmer_Jones
another NYT article said the Afghans went “full court press” to keep him. Karzai & co. apparently like him. but is that a point for or against him?
Redshirt
Why does Obama hate our Troops?
He doesn’t listen to the “boots on the ground”.
And, that’s what I got for the Wingnut Wurlitzer for the next two days.
acallidryas
Wait, I thought Obama was weak if he didn’t fire McChrystal. It’s so difficult to remember how we’re supposed to interpret each gesture.
Mark S.
I agree. MacArthur was trying to start WWIII.
stuckinred
@Cacti: so what?
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
On the other, comparisons with D-Mac were greatly exaggerated. It ain’t the same fuckin’ ballpark, it ain’t the same league, it ain’t even the same fuckin’ sport.
And don’t forget that D-Mac actually governed Japan pretty liberally all things considered despite being a staunch Republican.
Davis X. Machina
I didn’t realize a.) we had such a post as CinC TarBabyCom, and b.) Petraeus could be talked into taking it.
I suppose you can’t send all the sane 2012 GOP candidates to Japan as Ambassador…
Bobby Thomson
It’s not what McChrystal himself said. It’s not even what his aides said.
It’s the fact that the General went to Rolling Stone in the first place. No reason to do that other than to try to go around/undercut the chain of command.
Not to mention, attempting to rally support for escalation in Afghanistan through one of the last bastions of DFHs is pretty fucking stupid and shows not just poor judgment, but an inability to plan strategically.
Also, too, Bud Light Lime.
JGabriel
Good speech from Obama.
.
Dave C
IMO, the fact that Bud Light Lime is his favorite beer should be seen as grave flaw in character that should have automatically prohibited him from command.
Adam Collyer
It’s not the same as MacArthur, and the President didn’t “have to” fire him to show he was “strong,” but this is the right call all the same.
I don’t really understand why any general (or other military personnel) is allowed to give opinion comments on war. The military is not a democracy. This isn’t debate squad. You’re given orders to implement. Do you job, keep your mouth shut. The only statements you should be able to give are factual statements. The press wants opinions? Direct them to your boss, the guy who sets policy – the Commander-in-Chief, the duly elected President of the United States.
Violet
Good for Obama for highlighting the civilian control of the military.
EconWatcher
Nice Jules and Vince reference.
dmsilev
Were there really all that many people comparing this to MacArthur? It’s eminently possible to say something that is a fireable offense without doing a swan dive off the board of sanity into the pool of megalomania the way Dugout Doug did.
dms
Corner Stone
The Village has its consensus. This was a “brilliant” move.
Americans, I hope you’re feeling it. Are you ready for some SUUUURRRRGGGEE?
BR
Obama was pissed and stern in a way I haven’t seen in a while.
It was a good thing.
BTW, it was hilarious to see how even Chuck Todd and Brian Williams were talking about how great a move this was by Obama, only to have David Gregory come on and immediately piss all over everything and talk about how this was great news for President McCain.
JGabriel
David Gregory concern trolls on MSNBC.
I guess I could saved insult by just noting Gregory was being himself. Couldn’t see any real reason to, though.
.
licensed to kill time
That Bud Light Lime is nasty stuff. Caveat emptor.
Cacti
@stuckinred:
That the similarities between the two end with both of their surnames starting with the “Mc” prefix.
Douglas McArthur was probably the most dangerous general in US history.
stuckinred
@Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle: MacArthur was a complete jerk. He never spent ONE fucking night in Korea and presided over one of the most stupid allocation of forces in American military history. They didn’t call him Dougout Doug for nothing.
Toast
Actually, I think it is the same sport. But the other stuff, yeah, you’re right.
Toast
@Bobby Thomson: “It’s the fact that the General went to Rolling Stone in the first place.”
This.
Violet
@BR:
It was nice to see. Don’t mess with Obama. I wouldn’t want to be across the table from him when he’s pissed off. He may not scream and yell, but that doesn’t mean he’s not angry.
Alex S.
I don’t understand why Petraeus replaces him. Petraeus already heads CentCom and the Iraq War. Isn’t that a little bit much for a single person? And basically, Petraeus is now THE guy to talk to about “war stuff”.
stuckinred
@dmsilev: ding
geg6
@Violet:
Exactly. That is what McChrystal was undermining with his frat house management style. Glad to see the Preznit pointed out who really is in charge.
Obviously not frat boy with his Bud Light Lime. Talk about your wussy drinks.
catclub
@Cacti:
Wouldn’t that actually be Smedley Butler for stopping the businessman’s coup in 1933?
DougJ
@BR:
Is that you, David Ignatius?
stuckinred
@Alex S.: Because it’s great cover for one thing.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Correct move. Correct tone. We can now begin the debate as to whether or not our Afghan military stragetery is the correct one.
Actually, the Bushies left us with nothing but shit options, ie., which pile of steaming shit do I want to eat from, Pile A or Pile B.
Bulworth
@BR:
What was Gregory’s spin?
Elie
It needed to happen and is a good move to give it to Petraeus — the mentor of McChrystal and the guy who pushed him for the role. He should have watched his boy a little better so its fittin’ that he has to do the clean up on aisle three.
If I am Obama I am really suspicious of all these senior dudes… this whole thing should have never happened and they have to shoulder some of the blame and failure of trust from the administration..
geg6
@stuckinred:
Word. His reputation as a tough guy or any sort of hero is completely fictional. An asshole by all contemporary accounts, especially that of Eisenhower.
Allison W.
If Karzai wanted the general to stay then I’m glad Obama replaced him. I don’t trust that Karzi one bit.
BR
@DougJ:
Ha. Yeah, I know, that sounds like what the MSM has been harping on, doesn’t it. I guess I was just observing he was pissed, not that it provided me catharsis. Also, I think the media needed to see pissed Obama (not that he was doing it for them) so they’d shut up already.
fucen tarmal
bro’s icing C.O.s?
eemom
Ooooh, can we make this a “Pulp Fiction” thread please please please??
My favorite line is when Marcellus is about to tell Jules that he’s sending The Wolf, when he says “I’m ON the motherfucker.” It is just SO cool the way he says that.
I often say “I’m ON the motherfucker” when people ask me if I did something, but I’ll never sound as cool as Marcellus. Never. : (
JGabriel
@Cacti: McChrystal was not “just a boorish loudmouth”.
While he may not have been trying to provoke a war, as MacArthur was, McChrystal was apparently trying to escalate and lengthen the engagement in Afghanistan beyond the mid-2011 target.
Furthermore, McChrystal’s remarks, and those of his team, displayed an on the record lack of respect for the chain of command and civilian control of military, and showed an aversion to cooperating with the national security team selected to coordinate diplomacy, strategy, and tactics in theater.
@Adam Collyer:
Bingo.
.
geg6
@Allison W.:
This.
Midnight Marauder
@Dave C:
Seriously. That is such an unfathomable travesty in so many ways. I mean, what the hell was his favorite beer before Bud Light Lime? Did he just drink cherry-flavored turpentine?
BR
@Bulworth:
That even though this looks like a move to establish unity, Obama’s national security team is a “mess” and “deeply divided” etc. and that’s a problem for Obama.
I’m sure we’ll be seeing President McCain on Press the Face this weekend to hear what he thinks about this move.
blackwaterdog
Obama did the best he could in this situation. And he did well.
Cacti
Remember, I called it yesterday.
The narrative will become “Obama tolerates no opposing views.”
The Village hasn’t been faxed their Frank Luntz talking points yet.
DougJ
@eemom:
I love that too.
bemused
GOBP would have been screaming Obama is a wimp if he had kept McChrystal. oth, they would have been ok with any general dissenting with George Bush/Cheney court tried & executed.
Gus
Palin/McChrystal 2012!
Alex S.
@Alex S.:
Maybe…. to answer myself…. this ensures that either war will be of limited scope. McChrystal might have tried to keep the war going on forever (and the non-news about the mineral resources in Afghanistan confirmed my suspicion that parts of the military are actively working against Obama’s plans of withdrawal). Petraeus cannot lead two wars with an unlimited time frame and the prospect of escalation. But he can ensure a coordinated withdrawal. So I suspect that Obama, once again, defeated an enemy by self-destruction.
DougJ
@BR:
I hear you.
My fear is that tomorrow “Post Partisan” will be filled with posts about “If Obama could be this stern with BP…”
BR
@Alex S.:
This may be the most underestimated and unknown strength Obama has.
licensed to kill time
@eemom:
Obamarsellus: In the fifth, your ass goes down. Say it.
McChrystal: In the fifth, my ass goes down.
Chat Noir
@BR: I watched it via streaming video on the White House’s web site. That way, I don’t get the inane chatter prior to and after the President addresses the press. I visit Balloon Juice for the post-address analysis.
Poopyman
@Dave C: Amen!
Not to judge a guy by the beer ….. awww, the hell I’m not! How TF can you take bus from Paris to Berlin (per the TPM article) and drink crappy American alcohol? And I mean crappy by even American standards.
Other point: McC forced Obama’s hand here. Obama has to maintain his CiC credibility and was left no other choice, IMO.
Other point #2: I’m just glad that I don’t get to watch the media working this thing in real time. In fact, I think I’ll stay away from TV for a day or 2.
nepat
Smooth political move backfilling w/ Petraeus. Wingnuts love him and his surge. Will knock the wind out of their inevitable poutrage.
BeccaM
Let me get this straight: McChrystal and his entourage were traveling from Paris to Berlin, and the beer they chose to drink “case after case” was friggin’ Bud Light Lime?!
Traveling in GERMANY for gawdsakes? That’s the best they could do?
It’s no wonder the General and his staff gawped the Magic Words of Being Fired, not just once but over the course of the entire befouled trip. The Bud Light Lime itself was ample display of a total lack of forethought and common sense.
Alex S.
@stuckinred:
What do you mean? If the strategy fails, Petraeus will go down with it, i.e. Obama wants to destroy him?
NonyNony
@acallidryas:
Not really – here’s a simple flow chart
Did Obama do it? —> It shows Obama is weak
Another handy one is this one:
Did Obama do it? —> It shows Obama is a thug
Just remember – no matter what Obama does it shows that he’s a weak, girly-man of a president who is a brutish thug ready to steal anything that isn’t nailed down.
eemom
@licensed to kill time:
Tee hee. Good one.
Chat Noir
@Violet: I wonder if this is how he reacts as a parent. I remember Michelle Obama saying one time that her father had a way of letting her know when she disappointed him that would make her just sob and feel like the worst kid ever. No hysterics or yelling just, “You really disappointed me.”
DougJ
@licensed to kill time:
See this business is filled to the brim with unrealistic motherfuckers. Motherfuckers who thought their ass would age like wine. If you mean it turns to vinegar, it does. If you mean it gets better with age, it don’t.
Johio
I think one of the worst things he did was allow an atmosphere around him where his staff felt the need to trash anyone who disagreed with the General.
And the bud light, of course. Sheesh, aren’t these guys all supposed to drink Scotch?
Poopyman
Oh, and Prairie Weather notices something interesting about McChrystal.
Redshirt
Yeah, I think we’re all coming around to the fact that the true horror to this story is the Bud Light Lime, in seeming endless quantities.
That’s OUR TAX MONEY buying that crap!
fourlegsgood
No, but insubordination was insubordination. He didn’t just do it himself in the press, he encouraged a climate of insubordination among his chain of command.
He had to go. He’s lucky they aren’t going to court marshal him.
JoyceH
I just heard Joe Lieberman describe this as a show of Decisive Presidential Leadership. LIEBERMAN!
ajr22
@Gus: That’s not funny. A chill just ran down my spine.
RedKitten
@Dave C:
Agreed. I mean, he was going from Paris to Berlin. It’s very possible that they would have passed through Belgium. Belgium! and then Germany!, for crissakes, and he’s drinking Bud Light Lime!
Fuck, dude, at least TRY a Leffe or something.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
It’s more than likely that Obama’s security and policy team *in* Afghanistan was/is in disarray. The link Cole provided in another post was certainly a strong argument for that.
Now, is the national security team in disarray? The Villagers will say yeah but typically they’re wrong about this in Dem administrations. Clinton, Gates, Mullen, wtf the National Security Advisor is and even Biden are all gonna pull together to make things work.
That’s incredibly unlike how I saw previous teams in Reagan and Bush I work together. They sounded like Obama’s Afghan team, ie., at each other’s throats and constantly at cross-purposes.
Clinton’s national security team was tight. His biggest problem was during his first term when all the Joint Staff and most 4 stars were all Republican “appointees”. Believe me, having worked on the Joint Staff, 3- and 4- star generals get to their positions based as much on their politics as it does on their professionalism. After the highly overrated Colin Powell stepped down, then Clinton was able to approve promotions of flag rank officers who were gonna work with people like Perry.
All this being said, unless Obama has a tight Afghan team, he’s gonna doom his presidency no matter how tight and focused the national team back here is.
cyntax
@fourlegsgood:
Not really lucky. Almost no one’s ever been court-martialed under article 88, makes the offending officer look too much the victim. Cleaner just to cashier him out and give him his pension.
licensed to kill time
@DougJ:
McChrystal: You okay?
Obamarsellus: Naw man. I’m pretty fuckin’ far from okay.
McC: What now?
Obamarsellus: What now? Let me tell you what now. I’ma call a coupla hard, pipe-hittin’ niggers, who’ll go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. You hear me talkin’, hillbilly boy? I ain’t through with you by a damn sight. I’ma get medieval on your ass.
McC: I meant what now between me and you?
Obamarsellus: Oh, that what now. I tell you what now between me and you. There is no me and you. Not no more.
bemused
McChrystal’s regimen of running 8 miles a day, 4 hours of sleep a night and one meal a day (with or without beer?) sounds like a ridiculous way to stay fit. I have a kid who is a serious triathaloner and he eats like a horse when he is in serious training and doesn’t skimp meals when he is just doing his normal running and biking.
Rosalita
He should get canned on his beer choices alone…
/shudder
Mnemosyne
I have to admit, I haz a happy about this. I also can’t help thinking of Petraeus’ new position as basically a demotion — “your hand-picked guy screwed up, now you’re in charge of fixing what he did.”
JGabriel
@Poopyman:
Even as we speak, Parisians are shaking their heads in embarrassment and roaming the streets searching for the establishment that stocks Bud Light Lime so they can burn it the fuck down.
.
Brachiator
@DougJ:
Yeah, but not quite the point. Other generals (and an admiral) have been fired by presidents or Defense Secretaries so we don’t even have to go to D-Mac.
McChrystal put himself in an untenable position and probably knew it. If the president kept him on despite the open expression of disdain by the general and his aides, McChrystal and other commanders would have a slightly weaker hand when dealing with crap from their troops.
And the larger context here is the disrespect toward Obama and his Administration. There is no easy way to dance around this with bygones, especially when you have nutcases, including some soldiers, questioning Obama’s legitimacy as commander-in-chief.
This morning, in an interview before the general met with the president, even John McCain acknowledged the gravity of McChrystal’s problem and declined to play politics.
slag
Good. I’m glad.
Although I’m not looking forward to seeing him hosting a Faux News show in the coming weeks. I want no more freaks on the fire.
BeccaM
@Johio: I dunno. They’re on a bus driving to Berlin, drinking flavored American faux-beeresque piss-water. It’s not like they couldn’t pull over at some German equivalent of a liquor store and pick up some halfway decent German beer.
It’s like saying, “I know they have a fantastic aged filet mignon, hand-mashed garlic mashed potatoes, and baby asparagus tips steamed to perfection, plus a lobster bisque that’s to die for — but what I want is this here bag of White Castle sliders instead. And Twinkies for dessert.”
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Mnemosyne:
This.
Also, it sends a message the the policy/operational plans in Afghanistan will continue as before with no real burp. Whether that’s good or bad is problematic.
jeffreyw
What? No love for Curtis Lemay?
cleek
optimistically, i’d hope the fact that Petraeus gets both Iraq and Afghanistan means that Iraq is winding down.
but, i’ll believe that when we’re actually out.
stuckinred
@geg6: My old man spent about half of the Pacific war on a tin can in what was called Mac Arthur’s Navy. He hated him and loved Halsey.
BR
@Gus:
Because torturing the English language just isn’t good enough.
Calouste
@eemom:
So now we know how the Obama-McChrystal meeting went:
Stanley: I’ve got a threshold, Barack, I’ve got a threshold for the abuse that I’ll take and right now I’m a racecar, man, and you got me in the red. I’m just saying, I’m just saying it’s fucking dangerous to have a racecar in the fucking red, that’s all. I might blow.
Barack: Oh, you ready to blow? Well I’m a mushroom-cloud-laying motherfucker, motherfucker! Everytime my fingers touch brain I’m Superfly TNT, I’m the Guns of the Navarone. In fact, what the fuck am I doing in the back? You’re the motherfucker who should be on brain detail! We’re fucking switching, I’m washing the windows and you’re picking up this nigger’s skull.
stuckinred
Bombs away SAC!
SpotWeld
Terminology check… who’s “D-mac”?
slag
@BeccaM: Although I understand Michael O’Hanlon offers good beer. I’m sure a case will be coming the good general’s way very soon.
Church Lady
I like lime in my beer, too, but I stick to Corona with a squeeze of the real thing. I once made the mistake of trying a Bud Lite lime. Disgusting.
A personal note to Doug: As you enjoy your elitist tour of Europe, I thought I could make your day by letting you know that, hopefully, in the near future, you will have a new journalist to kick around. The Church Daughter will be attending the Publishing Institute at the University of Denver this summer and will then be starting graduate school in the fall, getting her Masters in Journalism. She was also awarded a TA position, meaning a full ride on tuition and a cash stipend as well, which equates out to NO STUDENT LOANS! Praise Jesus.
slag
@SpotWeld: Douglas MacArthur
Johio
@BeccaM: No argument. I worked in Bonn with the State Dept and was floored, flabbergasted, appalled at my boss who bought Budweiser at the PX instead of buying local brew.
Bill Section 147
@BeccaM: I disagree. You have to work to find shitty beer in Germany.
blackwaterdog
Petraeus is on record just a few days back: July 2011 is set in stone.
Ash
Isn’t Petraeus basically getting demoted from CENTCOM?
And everyone should check out the trailer for The Tillman Story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-NbZqt8WJk
fourlegsgood
@Johio: exactly. he encouraged his staff to engage in insubordination as well.
stuckinred
Well we’d have to be talkin’ about one charming motherfuckin’ pig. I mean he’d have to be ten times more charmin’ than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I’m sayin’?
DougJ
@licensed to kill time:
You lost all your LA privileges.
stuckinred
@Bill Section 147:
Help him
help him
SIA
Just heard Obama’s remarks which seemed pitch-perfect to me. Our prez is a class act.
Mnemosyne
@bemused:
It is a ridiculous way to stay fit, but clearly it’s supposed to be a public show of how “disciplined” he is, not a healthy way to live. I only have to sleep for 4 hours and eat once a day, unlike you losers!
I hate people like that.
Ruckus
@BeccaM:
Really, what I see as a major problem is that Butt Lite is sold in France or Germany. I thought they had standards. I thought they had taste. I didn’t know that there are people everywhere who will drink piss water.
@fourlegsgood:
He had to go. He’s lucky they aren’t going to court marshal him.
Seconded or howmanyever.
JGabriel
@Brachiator:
How long before someone at Townhall or Freeperville pushes the theory that McChrystal orchestrated his own resignation so he wouldn’t have to report to an illegitimate CinC?
After all, why else would a general who understood the rules of the chain of command say such things unless he wanted to be fired? And why else would a great American patriot hero want to be fired unless he knew the President was a foreign born gay islamofascist commie usurper?
.
Randy P
@Alex S.: I hadn’t thought of that. This is confusing.
Out of curiosity I did a little poking around the CENTCOM website. They’ve got a very brief blurb on the McChrystal replacement in which they say that Petraeus has been “suggested” as a replacement.
Nothing else yet, but the news is still fresh. Here’s an interesting statement by Petraeus on Afghanistan though. Interesting in light of recent events.
fucen tarmal
the taste of the beer is beside the point.
bud light lime is a brand that mchcrystal could own outright as its military champion. its popularity amongst military personnel then becomes a dog-whistle for his popularity. its group-think, if you are with them, they you will declare loudly and with gusto your love of bud light lime.
like in the old days when coor’s was a regional beer deemed by many in the air force, and other assorted wannabe’s the best beer ever….they would travel cross country to buy it, but also show allegiance to the group-think.
the brand is proxy.
soonergrunt
@Mnemosyne:
That’s where you would be wrong.
McChrystal was Obama’s hand-picked guy. The President relieved GEN David McKiernan and replaced him with GEN McChrystal last year.
And while the President didn’t have to relieve anybody if he didn’t want to, being, you know, the President and all, it IS in the same ball park, it IS in the same league, it IS in the same fucking sport.
In the military, disrespect is disrespect is disrespect, and while he personally may have been borderline on an Article 88 violation, they are flat-out fucking wrong. There’s no such thing as degrees of wrong here. There’s no lesser included offense. You’re wrong in this way, your career is over and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, and leave the box of pens for your replacement. End of story.
Rosalita
I guess the “real ‘merikans” drink pisswater and we are elitist…
Redshirt
English motherfucker! Do you speak it?!
SIA
@Mnemosyne: That’s a very good point.
cleek
@cleek:
nevermind. he’s not getting both. he already had both. now he’s getting more Af..
doesn’t matter anyway.
Poopyman
@JGabriel:
Sadly, I’m betting their rage will be unquenched. McC’s a frickin’ General. He probably has a beer truck full of the shit flown in daily to whereverthefuck he happens to be. Shit, for all I know, he might have had Xe build a Bud brewery in Kabul.
Generals are gods when in their own environment.
fucen tarmal
@Rosalita:
ooh-rah!
Mnemosyne
@soonergrunt:
Sorry, I’m confused about where I’m wrong. Are you saying that McChrystal was not pushed by Petraeus as being better for the position than McKiernan? Because that was the impression I got at the time — McChrystal got the position partly because he was so strongly supported by Petraeus.
Tsulagi
No shit. Fucker should have been sacked just for gross poor taste. Bud Light Lime? Seen drinking that should alone be grounds to start a DADT investigation.
From the link…
With a Rolling Stone reporter. While getting drunk. On which planet would that be seen as a smart move? That kind of stupid pretty much puts to rest any thought the general was playing some 11D strategy.
licensed to kill time
@DougJ:
My name’s Barack, and your ass ain’t talkin’ your way outta this shit.
Lysana
On the Bud Light Lime deal, we are talking about a man who picked up his lady with her wearing formalwear and promptly took her to Jack in the Box. He TRIES to be an uncultured asshole. It’s what he knows.
Right Wing Extreme
Honestly I did not think that the MSM would allow the President to come out of this shit pile smelling of roses regardless of what he chose to do. The President has turned out not to be the Liberal Hope they thought he would be, and they are starting to turn on him for not living up to his promises, and more importantly, their expectations of him. This bloodletting is not going to be pretty, and despite my personal dislike for the man, he will not deserve what the MSM is going to do to him.
Honestly I can not fault the Prez for this one. WTF is he supposed to do, let someone who allows a member of his staff to bad mouth the boss and other members of the team stay around? I don’t F’ing think so. Before software, I was a chef and restaurant manager, and I never tolerated that non-sense. In fact the last time I had to deal with a morale-saboteur like this, I fired him so hard he bounced. S-MAC can believe what he likes, personally I agree but that is not the point, but it is more than inappropriate for a serving military officer to openly bad-mouth other members of the government. Beyond that how hard is it to say to his staff, “I may not agree with the standing policy of the government, but I will not tolerate open mockery, rudeness or dissent.” Even worse, how dare he allow his staff to say such things at all, let alone in front of the media. Stupid, wrong and inappropriate.
fucen tarmal
@Poopyman:
inbev would have been foolish to not supply the general and the chain of command. no matter the cost of getting it there.
Persia
@Farmer_Jones: I think the Afghans are probably worried about any change making things worse; it will be up to the new leadership to assure them otherwise (as I hope they do). It probably doesn’t have anything to do with competence either way.
eemom
Bud. Lite. Lime.
That is SO. Fucking. Gross.
bemused
@Mnemosyne:
We’re all supposed to be so impressed with how “disciplined” he is but I’d rather know that a general running a war is sharp. His regimen that depletes his body reserves down that far can’t do much for his mental acuteness. If his flameout wasn’t deliberate on his part, then he is pretty foggy brained. Now if a woman general exercised like that on minimal sleep while starving herself, she probably would have no periods & be called anorexic to boot.
eemom
@licensed to kill time:
He don’t like to be fucked by anybody except Mrs. Obama.
licensed to kill time
@eemom:
[after McChrystal reads his RS interview]
McC: Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, fuck me! Fuck me!
Scott P.
McClellan, MacArthur, McChrystal — what is it with generals with Scottish surnames and egos?
matoko_chan
meh
this says more about what Obama thinks.
If Obama believed in COIN, he would have retained McC and given him the extension and the backing.
Andrew.
Neither is Obama. COIN didn’t work in Iraq either.
Petraeus is supposed to ‘zactly what he did in Iraq.
Create a smokescreen for america gtfo.
McC did the RS interview because he KNOWS COIN is failing in the Graveyard of Empires.
We have been lied to….supposedly the success of.the COIN strategy is based on SNT (social network theory)
But actually COIN cannot succeed because of social network theory and the Dragon’s Teeth Axiom.
Right Wing Extreme
@Scott P.: Tut tut Scott, that is not very inclusive of you. Seriously though I think it is the hot Celtic temper.
Midnight Marauder
@eemom:
Biden: Does he look like a bitch?
McChrystal: What?
[Biden shoots McChrystal in shoulder]
Biden: DOES HE LOOK LIKE A BITCH?!
McChrystal: No!
Biden: Then why you try to fuck him like a bitch, Stan?
McChrystal: I didn’t.
Biden: Yes you did. Yes you did, Stan. You tried to fuck him. And President Obama don’t like to be fucked by anybody, except Mrs. Obama.
RedKitten
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, because we can see what a marvelous effect his lifestyle has had on his common sense and judgment. The man is sleep-deprived and malnourished. I’m surprised he wasn’t babbling like an idiot after ONE beer…even if it WAS Bud Light Lime.
someguy
Trading in McC for Betray Us is like ditching your pit bull because it’s too dangerous then getting an alligator to replace it.
But I do like the fact that the guy who engineered our defeat in Iraq is now being handed a demotion to engineer another defeat that will have his name on it in Afghanistan.
Unfortunately, Obama is going to have to fire pretty much everybody over the rank of Lt. Colonel if he wants to root out the Bush influence in the military. They’ve poisoned the chain of command there the same way they destroyed the civil service. Finding out that a bunch of burrowed Bush cronies were behind the waivers for BP this week didn’t shock me at all…
Joseph Nobles
Bud Light Lime: the new official drink of the Tea Party.
Wait…
Elie
@Alex S.:
Maybe not a bad idea.. McChrystal was his hand picked selection and he made the situation worse so he now gets to try to fix it…
Obama is going to criticized for this that and the other but he had no choice with this – none.
I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they had their face to face.
I am absolutely sure that McChrystal is going to be courted by the right wing. But I tell ya what, he had better bring his sharp elbows cause there are a lot of ambitious pin heads in the tea party movement and while they will want to use his glamour, not sure he will in the end want them to tell him what to do. This guy is all about himself
Jager
President: One more thing Stanley.
McC: Sir?
President: Toss those fucking monogrammed nunchuks in
wastebasket on the way out!
Mnemosyne
@Scott P.:
Someone on here has a ready-made rant about the Scots-Irish and their influence on American culture — especially Southern culture — but I can’t remember who it is right now.
(Though IIRC MacArthur was Irish Catholic, so it kinda ruins the theory about the Scots-Irish, the military, and the Confederacy.)
Bob L
The Irish-American I would compare McChrystle to is McClellan. Try to hide failed their strategy based on calling for a more and more troops by blaming the president.
But yes, we can be sure this shows Obama is week.
someguy
@Bob L:
You could make a good case for Victor McGlaglen, because both play drunk, fighting caricatures of Irish Americans.
matoko_chan
@soonergrunt: nah….McC was mullen/petraeus/gates handpicked guy.
McC was the COIN guy that was supposed to deliver.
If Obama wanted to stick to COIN he would have kept McC and gave him the extension…..drawdown day is July 2011.
We are witnessing the FAIL of COIN in the Graveyard of Empires.
Petraeus said COIN and that Anbar Awakening crapology wouldn’t work in Afghanistan during the 2008 election.
Shoot, it didn’t work in Iraq.
The Sons of Iraq weren’t converts……they were drawing a paycheck.
wyliecoat
Expect an apology from Joe Barton any time now
demimondian
@fourlegsgood: I don’t know about this. He got canned for encouraging a culture of insubordination, but there’s no evidence that he, himself, was insubordinate.
Now, his subordinates? Several of them are looking straight down the barrels of Article 88. If I were one of soon-to-be-ex-members of Get McCheese’s staff, I’d be looking into finding solid counsel. Now.
flukebucket
Take him to the kennel and sick the dogs on his ass
Randy P
@RedKitten: I know a lot of people hate Avatar but one of the things I really loved in it was the character of Col. Quaritch. He just somehow typifies a certain type of military person that I think McChrystal also imagines himself to be. Overly impressed with your own physical prowess and toughness, which for some reason you have to keep proving to yourself every day.
And that type tends to have spectacular flameouts, don’t they?
arguingwithsignposts
I do hope the president read a certain passage from Ezekiel to the general.
Maude
@soonergrunt:
NATO is involved with us. Also, the world watched to see what Obama did with this situation.
This is the month for the Afghan policy review.
I thought Biden had a better idea.
JCT
@stuckinred: @stuckinred:
My father was in the Navy during the Korean War and one of the only stories he ever told was about MacArthur. He was piloting landing craft at Incheon and he and his comrades were from Texas, so they ran a little Texan state flag up on their boat. Apparently MacArthur got all pissed off and they got a serious dressing down over it. My dad was not a big fan, that’s for sure.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
You’re a funny guy, Doug.
And on the other hand, there is no other hand. McC said those things, and that’s it. End of story. It is what it is, and this has nothing to do with MacArthur. Only in the Gumby world of blogs would anyone try to make a MacArthur connection to this story. Even if McC puts on a funny hat and sticks a corncob pipe in his mouth, it won’t work.
Elie
@soonergrunt:
I am pretty sure that though McChrystal was appointed by Obama, that he was pushed by Petraeus who was geeked by his performance in Iraq in guiding the “surge”
demimondian
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Actually, no. That’s the point — McCheese did *not* say those things. His *staff* said those things. There is a world of difference between the two claims.
That’s why he was allowed to resign in disgrace instead of being arrested by MP’s the instant the story hit the stands.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Sure. They’ll destroy his first term and get him replaced the same way they did to Reagan after one term.
( rolls eyes )
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@demimondian:
Fuck you, Demi. Who gave you permission to talk to me?
McC is responsible, McC gets fired. End of story.
What’s wrong, slow day at work?
maus
@BeccaM:
I resemble the remark. Being on the west coast right now, I can find plenty of places that do steaks, but there are no Krystals or White Castles for miles. Plus, if I’m going to eat meat, I’m really not going to eat too much of it, so fancily dry-aged or not, I’ll probably just braise or smoke the heck out of it anyway.
Argentinean restaurants are one thing, but I would rather check out a White Castle than your average steakhouse considering how often I step into either of the latter.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Uh, right. The American history of arresting generals of the army is long and sobering.
Cynicor
This is Obama’s McChrystalnacht.
DougJ
@LikeableInMyOwnWay:
Uh, have you read the thousand articles comparing this to MacArthtur that appeared in newspapers over the past few days?
Elie
@someguy:
This…absolutely.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@DougJ:
Unlike you, Doug, I don’t need a thousand articles to tell me what to think about things.
Keep reading, though. Maybe you will have a new thought.
Actually, you and I are saying about the same thing. Only my pipe reference was more imaginative.
demimondian
@LikeableInMyOwnWay: Sorry, TZ, if I’d realized that your hanging out here today was the cause of the faintly nauseous stench wafting off my monitor, then I’d have been even less polite.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@demimondian:
I’m sure you would. Don’t you have some shitty software to write? Get to work.
Brachiator
@JGabriel:
Oh, I’m sure that there is already a bundle of crap going down that path. Along with some writing sympathetically about McChrystal, who would still be leading the troops if it were not for the malign intervention of the Kenyan Muslim pretender.
But in the real world, I commend Obama for having to deal with an illegitimate challenge to his authority. Like Lincoln or Truman, he did well here.
soonergrunt
@matoko_chan:Boy, you don’t let your complete lack of understanding stop you at all, do you?
Petraeus literally wrote the fucking COIN manual. He’s the theatre commander, and he just took over direct command at the president’s insistence.
marK
Don’t DIS the Prez
AND
a great excuse for the PREZ to stay ‘longer’
in Afghanistan!
pepe
@Adam Collyer:
AMEN Mon…thatz REAL spit
maus
@matoko_chan:
Do you recall what he suggested otherwise?
Capn America
@Cynicor:
Cynicor FTW!
JL
“…it ain’t even the same fuckin’ sport”.
I disagree.
Granted, nuclear weaponry wasn’t part of the equation. But as with MacCarthur’s insubordination, McChrystal knew what he was doing. It was a calculated political attack.
croatoan
[after McChrystal reads his RS interview]
“I never said I was a golden god.”
soonergrunt
@Mnemosyne: It wasn’t so much that McChrystal was supported more than McKiernan as it was that McKiernan didn’t have the confidence of either the British (in particular) or of some of his own subordinate commanders.
McKiernan was on his way out either way. McChrystal was, as you note, the picked successor with strong input from the theatre commander, Petraeus, and the SecDef.
With the exception of the British, McKiernan was popular with the NATO forces in the country, because, well, he spent a LOT of time kissing their asses and not asking anything of them.
None of which is to say anything about the fact that McKiernan was a very competent tank commander, who would’ve totally kicked the russians asses if they’d crossed the Fulda Gap in Germany.
matoko_chan
@soonergrunt: i know a lot about SNT (social network theory). and guess what?
Petraeus knows COIN isn’t working.
The Dragon’s Teeth Axiom–
matoko_chan
@Brachiator: McC was doing the same thing he did when he leaked his troop requests.
He tried to pressure Obama into extending the July 2011 drawdown date, and giving Biden and Eikenberry dressing downs for not supporting the COIN strat enough.
Obama said no, and brought Petraeus in to do what he did in Iraq….fake progress with the Surge so we can GTFO.
Now Petraeus is tasked to do the same thing with the mini-surge.
McC still believes in COIN…..Obama and Petraeus simply do not.
Corner Stone
@soonergrunt: I don’t think you understand.
She knows “SNT”. And that trumps knowing COIN. Obviously.
matoko_chan
@Corner Stone: Yup, I do.
The same much touted ability of the US mil to create “trusted networks” also allows for the spontaneous emergence of enemy networks, both social and kinship in nature, and oriented to the biological basis of revenge.
matoko_chan
I mean….well…..COIN kinda works ….but it works both FOR us and AGAINST us simultaneously.
Killin’ peeps with drones makes it work against us….because those “targets” have mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, cousins, friends, neighbors, and all those peeps have trusted networks too……..see where im goin wid dis?
COIN w/drones is NOT cost-viable.
Brutal Truth
So now what? Well the U.S. certainly can’t just up and pull out of Afghanistan. I mean what would happen to their plans for building natural gas pipelines from Turkmenistan’s gas fields, across Afghanistan to Pakistan and a port?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1984459.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2017044.stm
How else would Turkmen gas get to western markets and still bypass Russia and Iran if not for these proposed pipelines? Their current set-up was built during the Soviet era when it was the Turkmen SSR so it is linked to Russia, giving Russia huge leverage in the transport to market of Turkmen gas. The U.S. was in negotiations with the Taliban in the summer of 2001 regarding building these precious pipelines but reached an impasse and no amount of threatening or begging the Taliban would make them budge. Then what happens that September but a perfect, ready-made excuse to invade Afghanistan, remove the Taliban and emplace a U.S.-friendly puppet government with a “president” (Hamid Karzai) who answers to Unocal consultant Zalmay Khalilzad the American ambassador, and agrees to America’s terms for the pipeline project? It’s a good thing 9/11 happened when it did, right? Considering that Bush already had detailed war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan on his desk ready to be signed two days BEFORE 9/11. I guess Bush is psychic?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4587368/
Good thing those “Al Qaida” guys decided to carry out 9/11 right on schedule or else the clairvoyent Bush might have had to put those war plans into a manila folder and wait a while.