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You are here: Home / Sports / England v Germany Open Thread

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168Comments

  2. 2.

    mark boggs

    And Jorgen Klinsman just said the Germans tried to craft a style of play that reflects the culture of their country…WTF does that even mean and how does one actually translate one’s culture into a style of play?

  3. 3.

    burnspbesq

    @mark boggs:

    It means less than it once did, as Germany becomes more multi-cultural.

    Germans play like Germans – except when they play like Turks, Poles, or Ghanaians.

  4. 4.

    frankdawg

    @mark boggs:

    Anyone that has spent any time in the country knows that there is not “German culture” any more than there is an American one or a Greek one. Countrys of any size are diverse & a collection of regions. The attitude, pace & ‘culture’ of someone from Munich will be as much like that of someone from Hanover and they will be the same as someone from Frankfurt – just like someone from Jacksonville, FL is the same as someone from Brooklyn and exactly the same as the one from San Diego.

    This is just part of the constant steam of bullshit these people think has to flow from corner to corner over every second of sporting events.

  7. 7.

    stuckinred

    Great, I can’t hear the announcers on ESPN and I can’t understand the announcers on Univision even though I can hear them!

  8. 8.

    Leeds man

    Glad we got a Uruguayan ref. He should be used to a hard-tackling game, and maybe less likely to call every little ankle-rap.

  11. 11.

    Punchy

    I just love watching Wayne Rooney, a.k.a. Young Phil Collins. That said, the Krauts will win….

    WOW. GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL!

  12. 12.

    Amir_Khalid

    Deutschland 1 England 0 Miroslav Klose in the 20th. This is going pretty much as I expected.

  18. 18.

    Violet

    I only just woke up! I never sleep this late, but I’m sick and decided not to set the alarm clock to see if I could get some much needed rest. I did, so that’s all good.

    Managed to see the German goal. WTF was the England goalkeeper doing? And how did England allow that ball to get down there anyway?

    England has been dire in this World Cup, but I’m still pulling for them. Family obligations and all.

  19. 19.

    Punchy

    should have been Germans 2-0….how does he miss that?

    Nevermind……NOW it’s 2-0. I smell a blowout.

  22. 22.

    Bill Murray

    @Nethead Jay: well it was awful defending — very reminiscent of Gyan’s goal in extra time against the US. and the announcer (Ekoku I think) who mentioned off side again doesn’t know the rules, as there is no offside on a goal kick.

    and Podolski 5-holes James making it Poland 2 England 0

  25. 25.

    Amir_Khalid

    2-0. Oh dear. BBC commentators are calling the England defense “an absolute shambles”.

  26. 26.

    Alex S.

    The english team will depend on luck for a goal. Their offense is not organic. Miroslav Klose is Germany’s Wayne Rooney, only better.

  38. 38.

    Amir_Khalid

    Who knows, Stevie G might just lead England back into the game through sheer force of will, as he does once in a while for Liverpool.

  39. 39.

    Violet

    Holy cow, this game is crazy!
    @Jay C:
    Seemed like a good idea, but now this match has me on the edge of my seat! That goal was definitely in. England was robbed.

  40. 40.

    Punchy

    England ROBBED. That excessive whine you hear is the English already warming up for a 3.5 year continous bitching about that goal non-goal.

  42. 42.

    ChrisB

    This is why FIFA sucks. They like the controversy that comes from bad calls, rather than trying to get it right.

  44. 44.

    Alex S.

    In 1966, England at least scored another goal after the Wembley goal, so in a way, the Wembley goal wasn’t the decisive one. I would hope that Germany scores at least another one, if not it’ll be a very bitter loss for England.

  48. 48.

    Matt

    Germany should stand aside in the beginning of the 2nd half and let England have their goal back.

  50. 50.

    amorphous

    If you’re having trouble with ESPN, I feel obligated to always refer people to channelsurfing[dot]net, or justin[dot]tv, or myp2p[dot]eu etc etc etc.

    @ChrisB: As soon as FIFA institutes a 2nd ref a la the NHL or permits limited reviews to make sure the goals are right and take the flopping out of the game, then I’ll become more than a once-per-four-years soccer fan.

    The flopping is what drives me nuts. When I was a kid, we were told to walk it off. Break my thumb playing HS football? Tape it up. I can’t stand it.

  53. 53.

    Violet

    It would be easy to fix this kind of goal nonsense with current technology. Of course FIFA says “not yet.” Stupid.

  57. 57.

    Leeds man

    @Fern:

    No, it’s not relevant. You take the bad calls, or stop playing/watching. The linesman was unsighted. That simple.

    Come on England!

  58. 58.

    SRW1

    @Violet:

    FIFA may just have had their feet cut from under them by this error. I suspect it will take some disaster like this at a WC to force a change in their stonewalling.

  59. 59.

    mark boggs

    The flopping could be a post game review so as to not take up game time (unless it’s blatantly obvious) and the penalty could be issued for future games. But what just happened with Lampard is really bad. I mean it was a goal. England has actually scored twice now, but the official didn’t see it absolutely, so no goal. That’s wrong. It’s one thing on a foul call at midfield to miss it, but missing a goal seems a travesty.

  61. 61.

    magurakurin

    Inexcusable. A referee behind the net would have seen that goal. They wouldn’t even need to look at the instant replay, which was as clear as clear can possibly be. I’m over FIFA soccer. I tried real hard. I was as open minded as I can be. In fact, I was almost hooked. This game was great. Well played, exciting. And then the goal is disallowed. Why? Because FIFA doesn’t seem to think they need proper officiating. Hell, I was cheering for Germany, too. But who wants to win on such an egregious call. Unless its more about tribalism than sport.

    It’s WWF. I’m convinced that soccer fans must like the drama and controversy more than the actual sport.

    Beautiful game my ass.

  62. 62.

    Jay C

    @Leeds man:

    No, it IS relevant : goals (baskets, home runs, touchdowns) ought to depend on what happens on the field – not the vagaries of whether a ref/ump is there to see it: this was just a bad call

    ANyway, back to the action….

  63. 63.

    Violet

    @SRW1:
    I think it would take something even bigger to get FIFA to change their mind. Like if the ball not only went over the line, but settled to a stop in the back of the net as the goalkeeper turned around and watched it, and the ref still said it wasn’t a goal.

    FIFA is nothing if not stubborn.

  64. 64.

    Amir_Khalid

    @Fern: Exactly. The principle, set out in the Laws of the Game, being that the match referee is the final judge of fact. And because FIFA president Sepp Blatter remains dead set against video replays.

  66. 66.

    cmorenc

    @Fern:
    NO – a referee mistake about a factual misjudgment in soccer can ONLY be fixed if corrected before the next stoppage + restart has occurred (stoppage being ANY stoppage in play, even a throw-in). Once past that, it’s irretrievable.

    @Jay C:

    Should be 2-2, last England goal was definitely in – bad refereeing

    Actually, not really, the assistant referee was properly positioned where he should have been in the context of play (even with the second to last defender, with no time to get to the goal line when the ball went forward in the fast run of play). The real problem is that in being assigned with BOTH the tasks of being in position to judge offside during critical attacks AND being the one with primary responsibility for judging whether the ball went completely over the line for a goal (which a center referee well-positioned for his respective responsibilities usually isn’t well-positioned for this task)…the assistant referee was poorly positioned to make this critical goal or no-goal call through no fault of his own. It’s an inherent potential flaw in the soccer system of refereeing.

    I know, I’ve refereed soccer for 14 years myself, hundreds upon hundreds of games.

  67. 67.

    Violet

    cmorenc:
    You’ve used the unattached dash or hyphen and effed the thread. Can you edit?

  68. 68.

    cmorenc

    Argh! I hate that a hyphenated comment is interpreted as html for strike-through by whatever web package it is that BJ uses to supposedly “simplify” the user interface. The blockquote function has some needless bugs as well (it totally mishandles it when there’s more than one paragraph in a quoted section).

  70. 70.

    cmorenc

    violet: no, it won’t let me edit. It’s very moody about that; some sessions BJ lets me edit my posts for up to 5 minutes, others whatever is in there when I hit send is irrevocable, no second chance offered to edit. I have no idea why.

  71. 71.

    Violet

    @Randinho:
    Excellent, thanks! I feel like I’m being a pain in the rear when I post about it, but sometimes people don’t realize it’s happened, so I hope that an early enough post pointing it out will allow them to edit before the editing window closes.

    Edit: Oh, I didn’t realize it was you Randinho. Thanks for taking care of it. The edit function is weird on what it allows and what it doesn’t.

  73. 73.

    Violet

    @cmorenc:
    I’ve had that happen too. I think if you use the unattached dash, it messes up the comment so you can’t edit. When I clicked on the Reply arrow on your post (the one that had the unattached dash) it actually saw it as being Jay’s comment above yours. Maybe because you were quoting Jay? But it didn’t register as your comment. So maybe yours was “invisible” to WP and thus you couldn’t edit it?

    Sorry for all the OT FYWP discussion. Back to football!

  79. 79.

    Violet

    @amorphous:
    Yeah, Randinho is remarkably restrained.

    Uh oh. Not looking good for England. David James is not looking like the brightest star today. Maybe they should reconsider poor Robert Green?

  81. 81.

    folkbum

    Regardless of the disallowed goal, England has been getting outplayed the whole game. We just saw that again. Bad defending, there.

  82. 82.

    cmorenc

    OUCH! The Germans once again exposed the weakness of the English defense to counterattacks. Remind you of someone else having the same difficulty after seeming to be on their way to recovering their feet in a game, say yesterday, say somebody from across the pond from England?

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    @cmorenc:

    The blockquote function has some needless bugs as well (it totally mishandles it when there’s more than one paragraph in a quoted section).

    Put two underscores on each blank line between paragraphs, and that will give you a multi-graph blockquote.

  92. 92.

    cmorenc

    Ohhh England gives up ANOTHER counterattacking goal by Germany. England’s hosed beyond recovery now this game.

  97. 97.

    amorphous

    Is England actually worse than Fwonce or Italy this year? Was it just a lucky draw that got them beyond pool play?

  100. 100.

    Amir_Khalid

    Germany are cutting England’s defense to shreds. It’s 4-1. Ain’t no coming back from this one.

  101. 101.

    SRW1

    Comment between the 3:1 and the 4:1 in the Guardian live comments:

    England’s four defenders make it back to their area.

    Priceless.

  103. 103.

    Leeds man

    Ah well. Maybe 2014. I’ll support this German team, unless they meet Holland in the final.

  104. 104.

    Randinho

    Grant Wahl, SI’s soccer analyst picked England to go to the final defeating Brazil in the semi-final. I couldn’t believe it.

  105. 105.

    Nethead Jay

    I don’t like German football generally, but those were 2 good counter attack goals. I was actually pulling for England after the injustice of the disallowed 2nd goal but Germany is clearly playing better today.

  109. 109.

    PanAmerican

    The finishing is beautiful. Do they offer a summer camp? Because the US could use something like that.

  110. 110.

    Bill Murray

    @amorphous: I would guess reputation of the player’s. Germany is being led by a bunch of young “unknowns”, England by a bunch of players making 100,000 GBP per week.

  111. 111.

    valdivia

    The Germans are playing really really great football.
    I think that whole not letting the UK team shag is having an effect. Just saying.

  113. 113.

    Randinho

    @amorphous: I know someone at SI who is knowledgeable about the sport and was just as mystified. He explained that Wahl’s a big fan of Lampard and Gerrard. Go figure.

  114. 114.

    SRW1

    Can’t see how England can recover from this score. Which means the third supposed European soccer power that’s gonna need a generational change. Wonder whether Capello will be available for that, or is the status of that experiment terminal?

  115. 115.

    Amir_Khalid

    If England’s “second goal” had been given, they might have scored a third and put themselves in a decent position. But with their shitty defending, they’d still be very vulnerable against a serious contender like Germany if they led by only one goal. If it were to go to penalties, England’s nerve simply wouldn’t hold.

  117. 117.

    valdivia

    This German team is simply playing a superb game. Control with a beautiful flow to their movement and placement of the ball.

  119. 119.

    Randinho

    More from the Guardian live blog:

    On BBC TV, Jingo the Commentator is trotting out that “we know these players are world class, they play for Chelsea and Manchester United and the like every week” argument. Has he thought that the reason they look good is because they’re alongside players who are from Not England? No. No he hasn’t, is the answer to that poser.

    Amen to that. Just like Inter Milan is primarily Argentinean and Brazilian and preciously little Italian.

  120. 120.

    Nethead Jay

    @SRW1: Yeah, I don’t see them coming back either, but at least they haven’t entirely given up trying. Guess that’s it for another England-Argentina grudge match, but Germany-Argentina should be fairly epic too (I know it’s an assumption about Argentina but Im feeling pretty sure about that prediction).

    Capello’s on contract for 2 more years but who knows, he might just decide to hang it up after this – or have someone decide it for him.

  122. 122.

    Jay C

    Well, at least we Anglophone fans can commiserate with the Brits over this defeat.

    Main difference, though: USA-Ghana was a mediocre team beaten by an adequate one. England-Germany was an adequate team beaten by a superb one.

    Good game

  124. 124.

    Violet

    @valdivia:
    Yeah, that no-shagging rule seemed pretty stupid to me. Not staying out late, drinking and carousing seems sensible. But no nooky? There doesn’t seem to be any evidence showing that makes any difference.

    Great match for Germany.

  126. 126.

    valdivia

    @Violet:

    yeah and with cameras to make sure it didn’t happen. WTF?

    As I said I am hoping Mexico wins but I think a German-Argentina match would be pretty epic. I would put my money on this young German team.

  127. 127.

    amorphous

    @Jay C: England didn’t do anything to show me that they were “adequate,” frankly. Not even “mediocre.” I’ll file them decidedly under “subpar” if not downright “poor.”

  129. 129.

    Alex S.

    The only good scoring chance for England that wasn’t a result of free kicks or corners, was the goal that wasn’t. Still, they found Germany’s weakness: This young team can be shocked out of the game. It happened against Serbia, too. After Klose was shown the red card, the german confusion resulted in the serbian goal. And here, the unexpected english goal, after a corner kick, disrupted Germany’s game again. But once they find their game, they look very, very good. The game against Argentina (my favorite for the whole tourney) will be very, very interesting.
    By the way, I think the english team was too steered by the interests of the big clubs and the advertising industry. What else is David Beckham doing there on the bench? This team, and this whole generation of english players, hasn’t been allowed to grow together. Wayne Rooney was isolated from the game. Gerrard and Terry simply disappoint as players for their national team. It has been this way for the whole last decade.

  130. 130.

    valdivia

    @Nethead Jay:

    well this is kind of a grudge match because the last time Mexico got ousted by Argentina with that cosmically epic gol by Maxi. I think Argentina has been riding easily though, Zonal Marking, which I have been reading seems to think they might have a harder time with the teams in the knock out round. we’ll see.

  131. 131.

    sven

    @valdivia: I am in exactly the same position. I’m thrilled with the progress the Mexican national team has made in this tournament, …. but Argentina-Germany sounds pretty awesome!

    One thing I find really weird about the U.S. – Mexico ‘rivalry’ is how many people actually root for the other side when they aren’t playing one another. I know several U.S. supporters for whom Mexico is their #2 in the tournament. In the real world this is entirely healthy but in the world of sports rivalries it strikes me as pretty odd. Imagine a Red Socks fan who’s #2 is the Yankees….

  132. 132.

    Violet

    @IM:

    Well, now the english can us hate for another ten years or so. Robbed and all that.

    They can try to blame us, but they had three matches in the group stage and they didn’t get it done to win the group. England didn’t just play poorly today, they played pretty poorly the whole time, although they were better against Slovenia.

  133. 133.

    Comrade Coffin

    If this German national side is this exciting to watch, why is the Bundesliga so damn boring?

  134. 134.

    Amir_Khalid

    I reckon there is something to the argument that English football’s strength lies in its club sides, which do well in continental competition, rather than the national team. Whereas club managements live and die by their weekly and seasonal results, the English FA’s management is notoriously hidebound and pointy-haired.

    The movie Mike Bassett, England Manager illustrates my point very well, and I heartily recommend it. I also recommend making the title character England manager. At least he took England to the World Cup semi-finals.

  135. 135.

    valdivia

    @sven:

    lol, I don’t see that translating into baseball or even basketball.

    I am not one of those latin americans who usually hates Argentina. But in this case, for some reason, I find myself really not wanting them to win. I know, petty petty.

    My team is Uruguay, which I know is a long shot but I am keeping the hope alive. :)

  136. 136.

    Violet

    The English commentator on ESPN keeps saying that England looked slow and heavy. That’s how they looked to me. And strictly from a female perspective, the Germans were young, cute and very fit! But setting that aside, the teams did look very different. England just looked heavy and sluggish in comparison to Germany. The Germans looked like they could run around the pitch all night.

  137. 137.

    IM

    If this German national side is this exciting to watch, why is the Bundesliga so damn boring?

    All these foreigners ruining the game. (Just joking).

  139. 139.

    Leeds man

    @IM:

    Sorry, I don’t get it. What are we supposed to hate you for? I’m always open to suggestions :)

    I’m assuming you’re American. If you’re German, what’s to hate? Well, except Bavarians. They’re assholes.

  141. 141.

    amorphous

    @Violet:

    the Germans were young, cute and very fit!

    cute

    This is why I dread trying to watch sports with my daughter when she gets older.

  142. 142.

    IM

    I am german and because of my football nationalism it should be easy to recognize in these threads. On the other hand I have read some english newspapers now and they are gracious losers, all things considered.

  143. 143.

    brad

    I don’t get England. Spain has a Spanish manager, Germany a German, Italy an Italian, Argentina, Holland, US, France (well perhaps I destroy my own point). But isn’t there a Englishman who can manage their national side? Isn’t the idea to have a cohesive scheme from the youth ranks all the way up to the full senior squad? Or is England deluded about the level of their domestic talent as a result of the quality of their domestic league? And how do you manage to make Wayne Rooney a non factor?

  145. 145.

    wengler

    @Jay C.

    Really? The US drew against England.

    You think this England team could beat Ghana? Remember this Ghana team just lost to Germany 1-0. England lost 4-1.

  146. 146.

    wengler

    If anything I think this loss proves that England needs to be casting a wider net for its player selection. Who wonders what someone like Beckford could do up front for this England team? Sure he played in League One all season but he scored one of the biggest goals all season against ManU at Old Trafford. And why wasn’t Dawson given a start at center back? He had a great season at Tottenham.

    Capello played favorites and England lost because of it.

  147. 147.

    Bill Murray

    @brad: no there really isn’t. The recent English managers results with the English national team were very poor. Maybe Harry Redknapp or Roy Hodgson could do the job. Otherwise you’re looking at Sam Allardyce, Steve Bruce, Mark Hughes none of whom are bad managers but haven’t really been successful at the highest level, well by that criterion Redknapp probably wouldn’t qualify either

  148. 148.

    Violet

    @amorphous:
    I’ve been watching and commenting on a lot of the WC matches in these threads and I think it’s the first time I’ve commented on the physical attractiveness of any of the players. It’s possible to appreciate the game and also acknowledge the good looks of the players.

    And there’s plenty of that kind of thing to go around. The women’s beach volleyball players and swimmers and so forth in the Olympics sure get their share of it, let alone people like tennis players and even car racers (Danica Patrick).

    There are lots of reasons to watch sports. Watching young, fit, people at the top of their game is exciting, no matter the sport. If they’re good looking, that’s a bonus.

  149. 149.

    Violet

    @brad:

    I don’t get England. Spain has a Spanish manager, Germany a German, Italy an Italian, Argentina, Holland, US, France (well perhaps I destroy my own point). But isn’t there a Englishman who can manage their national side?

    This doesn’t make sense to me either. England obviously needs to revamp everything to get a better team. There has to be someone in England who could manage the national team. If not, why not? Why not work toward that?

  151. 151.

    OriGuy

    @Violet: Joe Namath said something like, the sex didn’t wear you out, it was the chasing after it. I guess he didn’t have to chase very hard.

  152. 152.

    sven

    @brad: The English national team has been hit-or-(mostly)miss for decades but supporters are tempted to assume some tiny piece must be missing, otherwise why are Manchester United, Arsenal, and Chelsea so successful? The American car market is the largest and most competitive in the world. It doesn’t follow that U.S. auto manufacturers are the best in the world.

  153. 153.

    Corner Stone

    @Fern:

    And can I just say that if my name was Schweinsteiger, I would change it?

    Actually, I’ve decided this is going to be my new go to word for when I cock something up.
    “Oh, Schweinsteiger!!” , “Look at that Schweinsteiger over there!”

    But that may further your point now that I think of it.

  154. 154.

    Nethead Jay

    @Violet: There really isn’t a rule that the national team trainer should be the same nationality. England has had Sven-Göran Eriksson, a Swede, as trainer earlier, during this World cup he was in charge of one of the African teams.

    My team, Denmark, had a Swedish trainer before Morten Olsen and came to prominence in the mid-80s as a result of several years of hard work under German trainer Sepp Piontek.

    Greece’s very defensive playing style is very much associated with their German trainer Otto Rehagel. South Korea has had a couple of Dutch trainers as I recall.

    In short, trainers often cross borders and club/national team boundaries.

  156. 156.

    Violet

    @Nethead Jay:
    Yeah, I get that there’s no rule about it. But it seems that within a country with as many people into football as England has that there should be some people who could grow up to manage the national team.

    Obviously teams should do whatever they think will best help their chances. If that means choosing a foreign manager, then do that. But from a national unity perspective, having a manager from your own country, when you are on the national team, would seem to help create cohesiveness.

    But that’s just me. I’m probably buying more into the emotional side of the story (winning for your country, being on your national team, etc.) than recognizing the business side of it.

  157. 157.

    wengler

    @sven

    Because those teams are composed almost entirely of non-England players? The England team’s highest club team contributor is Tottenham and even Spurs fans know that they wouldn’t have gotten fourth without the Croatians on their team.

  160. 160.

    burnspbesq

    It doesn’t look like England’s pipeline is exactly full of young talent. There is so much money at stake nowadays that its really difficult for a club to take a chance on a talented 18-year-old. Jack Wilshere is a perfect example: Wenger sent him out on loan rather than stick him in the starting lineup at Arsenal.

  161. 161.

    Violet

    @burnspbesq:
    I don’t follow club football, so this “loan” thing baffles me. How does that work? It seems like a lot of clubs send their players around “on loan.” David Beckham played in L.A. but he had some deal where he went back to his Spanish team (was it Real Madrid?) at some point.

    As an American, I don’t get that kind of thing at all. There’s not any loaning of players in the NFL or NBA or NHL is there? Players don’t get loaned from the NBA to some European team, do they? They do go from minor leagues to the majors in baseball, but that’s still within the same team system. Do some of the lesser teams in football work as “minor league teams” for some of the bigger teams or something?

    I remember when Beckham was coming to the US, there was a lot of chatter about whether he’d choose the NY team or the LA team and eventually he chose LA. So it’s not like one team in the US is a ‘minor league team’ for another team in Europe, because if that were true he wouldn’t have had a choice as to where to go in the US.

  162. 162.

    Nethead Jay

    @Violet: Oh, I agree with you that the national and emotional side should matter and not be ignored. Personally, I don’t think Capello is the right fit for England, but that could be my dislike for him speaking. You’re right that a large country like England should be able to produce good trainers/managers, but I’m not knowledgeable enough in that area to comment on who’s out there.

    Going back to my favorite example, Sepp Piontek took Denmark up a level in the 80’s by combining some of his qualities with the best of the national player’s qualities. He was succeeded by a native Danish head coach who, despite 1 giant success in winning the Euro Cup 1992, became quite controversial for his style, both on the field and off. Personally, i still attribute 92 to the players and Piontek’s legacy more than that trainer.

    My point, not that it’s a big one, is that both national and outside coaches can be good or bad depending on the particular combination and situation.

  163. 163.

    Konrad

    @Violet:

    Putting players on loan is like renting out rooms; you still own the property (like the team owns the players’ contracts), but the renter pays a fee (like a fee and the players’ salary) for being able to use the room. It’s really a win-win, as one team gets more play out of a bench-warmer and young players develop their skills (and they make money off the player), while the other team gets a good player without having to sign a contract for them.

    The alternative is buying a player’s contract. For example, if a team wanted to get a player, they would have to offer the opposing team a large fee to transfer the contract they have with the player in question to the new team. For the best players, transfer fees can be in the tens of millions of dollars.

  164. 164.

    Violet

    @Konrad:
    Thanks for the explanation. Can the teams that “own” the players call them back at any point? It sounds a bit like major/minor league baseball. You can get called up to the majors in baseball, but you get lots of practice in the minors. Is that the general idea?

  165. 165.

    Detlef

    @Violet:

    Not exactly.
    Your major/minor league baseball example would be similar to letting a young inexperienced soccer player (with a contract) play in the minor/”amateur” team of the same club. He would play but he wouldn´t gain that much experience. But in that case he could be called up anytime to play for the major team. Say in case of injured players.

    The “loan” contract is normally for 1 (maybe 2) full seasons.
    And it´s normally to another professional team (Bundesliga or second division), in many cases a competitor. He hopefully would play a lot and gain valuable experience at the highest level.

    And in that case he couldn´t be called “back” during the season because that would be unfair. Say team “B” proves to be a serious competitor for the National Championship and then suddenly team “A” decides to recall/remove a (valuable) loaned player. Just to cripple team “B”.

    Just as an example.
    Team “A” already has under contract 4 good and internationally experienced forwards. (Normally only 1 or 2 would play in any game.)
    Now they spot a really talented young forward in their youth academy. Too inexperienced for a place in the major team for now but too talented to waste his time in the amateur league. You give him a 4 year contract and then loan him out for 1-2 years/seasons. Maybe because you know that in 1-2 years some of your forwards will retire because of age or leave the club. And then you will get back a forward already accustomed to playing in the Bundesliga/first division.

    Of course if he´s really good he just might destroy your chance of winning the Championship while on loan. :)
    It´s a gamble.

  166. 166.

    Bill Murray

    Loans often have a duration of less than one season — one to three months is not uncommon. Whether a player can be recalled (returned to the original team) depends on the loan contract. Many loan contracts include provisions for the team getting the player to be able to purchase the player’s contract at the end of the loan. The loan fee may also be linked to the amount of playing time. This happened this past season with Aruna Dindane (Cote D’Ivoire) who was on loan at Portsmouth in the EPL from RC Lens in France. There was a clause in the contract that Lens would be owed 4 million pounds if Dindane exceeded a certain number of games. Towards the end of the season Dindane was one game short of the clause, Portsmouth was in receivership, and in the FA Cup final. A deal was worked out on that one as Lens decided it was better to let Dindane play than sit on the bench

  167. 167.

    Tad Nathaniel

    Germany 4 (WOW 4) vs. England 1 (OK, maybe 2, but Rooney definitely 0)
    England, England, England,
    Why is it we need to sing “God Save the Queen” every 5 minutes. I mean, how much saving does the Queen need? Does anybody know? No? OK, let’s ask Mick. He’ll tell us he couldn’t get no satisfaction, because you can’t always get what you want.
    Hey, Fabio, didn’t I tell you to wake up and smell the bananas after the pre-World Cup Friendship Match with Japan, in which England did zilch to win the game? Hey, hey, hey, did I tell you or did I tell you? You weren’t listening, were you? Shame, shame, shame.
    Aside from one lucky win in the first stage, England did zilch overall. I’m surprised we even went to South Africa.
    Fabio Capello, good luck in your career change.

  168. 168.

    Bladdiator

    Cheer up! Have a look at a poem called “Infinity in a football score” at icrappoetry (.com)! Check out the Alan Latchley sketch!

    Best wishes

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