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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  June 29, 20107:30 am| 106 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Some random thoughts:

Finally bought a big container of stevia. It tastes terrible. Back to splenda and turbinado for me.

The dogs are now actively conspiring against me. I open the door, and Rosie shoots out. I get Rosie back to the door, open it, and Lily shoots out- while yelling at Lily, Rosie squirts through my legs and they meet at the end of the sidewalk and run off to chase birds and rabbits.

Also, the romance is officially over. I now have to physically move Rosie and Lily to have room on my bed if they go to bed before me. On the upside, they get along so well that they are now sleeping together in a pile of dog and comforter.

There has to be a way to harness the power of the smell of three day old crab in garbage. Can’t that be used as a non-lethal chemical weapon?

Conservatives think the WaPo should have a cheerleader covering conservatives. They will probably get their way. Who will end up taking Weigel’s beat- Goldfarb? Matt Continetti? Jonah Goldberg?

Last night as the sun was setting and it was getting cooler and the humidity was becoming bearable, I sat on the back porch and had the sweetest, juiciest piece of watermelon ever. I felt like I was ten again as the juices rolled down my chin.

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Reader Interactions

106Comments

  1. 1.

    harlana peppper

    June 29, 2010 at 7:32 am

    Ah, the joys of mulitiple pet-ownership!

  2. 2.

    debbie

    June 29, 2010 at 7:32 am

    Wrapping smelly stuff in a few sheets of newspaper helps.

  3. 3.

    middlewest

    June 29, 2010 at 7:39 am

    I recall a while back that people were taking bets on Republican attacks on Kagan. Who had money on “Thurgood Marshall is history’s greatest monster”? Please step forward to collect your winnings.

  4. 4.

    WereBear

    June 29, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Baking soda! Fer smells.

    And it’s delightful that Lily and Rosie are buddies now. Most of the time, I’ve had more than one dog, and I like it that way.

    Hmmm… most of the time, I have more than one cat, too. I see a pattern.

  5. 5.

    tBoy

    June 29, 2010 at 7:43 am

    Get the puppies a set of bunkbeds – endless joy for them. You can make them yourself:

    http://members.petfinder.com/~LA227/beds.htm (scroll to the bottom)

    Try composting crab shells. Excellent source of phosphorus & calcium.

  6. 6.

    Monkeyfister

    June 29, 2010 at 7:44 am

    the smell of three day old crab in garbage.

    Set it next to Ann Coulter to make her seem to smell better.

    –mf

  7. 7.

    SteveinSC

    June 29, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Stevia does suck (aka SunCrystals). Friend even gave me two stevia plants from Lowe’s, I never cared for saccharin (Sweet and Low) in coke’s or pepsi’s, but because tea and coffee are bitter anyway, it works great for me there. Others say Wheylo (sp?) is really great, but wife and I haven’t tried it yet.

  8. 8.

    SteveinSC

    June 29, 2010 at 7:47 am

    There has to be a way to harness the power of the smell of three day old crabshrimp in garbage. Can’t that be used as a non-lethal chemical weapon?

    Fixed.

  9. 9.

    Comrade Javamanphil

    June 29, 2010 at 7:49 am

    @debbie: Only if it’s not the WaPo which stinks enough on its own.

  10. 10.

    Phyllis

    June 29, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Save a few newspaper sleeves and put the remains in the freezer until garbage day.

    Yes, I kick it old school and still have a morning paper delivered. It does have a crossword puzzle and word jumble after all.

  11. 11.

    BrYan

    June 29, 2010 at 7:57 am

    If you mix some stevia with Carob, it tastes just like chocolate.

  12. 12.

    2th&nayle

    June 29, 2010 at 8:03 am

    @Phyllis: Ahh, yes! But the crypto-quote; that’s the real challenge! Old school indeed!

  13. 13.

    geg6

    June 29, 2010 at 8:08 am

    John, when I have smelly garbage (like shellfish), I put all the shells and scraps into a ziploc bag and put it in the freezer until it’s time to bag up the garbage and put it to the curb or wherever you put yours.

    That way you never reach the point where things like baking soda or Lysol are needed.

  14. 14.

    nancydarling

    June 29, 2010 at 8:08 am

    John, My daughter combines stevia with xylitol and she says it takes away the bitterness. Check it out on wiki. Keep it away from the dogs if you use it. I don’t know what proportion she uses, but will try to find the info for you.

  15. 15.

    BethanyAnne

    June 29, 2010 at 8:11 am

    @SteveinSC: Stevia has a bitter aftertaste that’s awful. Cargill or ConAgra, I forget which, seems to have gotten around that. They make Truvia, which I’ve been using for the past 3 months or so. It’s stevia bound to a sugar alcohol, which eliminates the aftertaste. Stevia does still have a flavor, but I like it. I’m deeply suspicious of the new sweeteners, but I did some reading about this. Pretty happy with truvia.

  16. 16.

    gizmo

    June 29, 2010 at 8:13 am

    John,

    Chop up some mint leaves and sprinkle them on a slice of cold watermelon. Nirvana….

  17. 17.

    Linda Featheringill

    June 29, 2010 at 8:16 am

    So your children are happy and watermelon tastes sweet.

    Life is good. Enjoy.

  18. 18.

    Phyllis

    June 29, 2010 at 8:22 am

    @2th&nayle: I save the crypto-quote for lunch break. Have to give the brain time to warm up a bit.

    I use the crossword as a barometer for the day. If I breeze through it, it’s a complicated task/tasks day. If i struggle, it’s a file and try to look busy whenever I hear footsteps approaching day.

  19. 19.

    RedKitten

    June 29, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Yep, putting those shells in the freezer is definitely the way to go.

    And I think that we definitely need photographic evidence of Lily and Rosie snuggling together in your comforter.

  20. 20.

    Comrade Mary

    June 29, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Nthing the freezer for organic, non-compostable garbage, says the woman who lived through last summer’s garbage strike in Toronto.

    My compostable stuff goes outside and is neutralized pretty quickly, but meat scraps and the like go in a SEPARATE small OPEN container in the kitchen (under the sink) for no more than a day, or immediately into the freezer, depending on the house temperature and the inherent perfume of the scraps. Stuff like meat wrappings goes in the freezer immediately, too.

    So whether or not you’ve got a sophisticated waste removal system, a compulsive guy like you should embrace separating your garbage:

    1) Dry non-food garbage goes in a large, closed bin until pickup. It just sits there and nothing is in it to rot and stink.
    2) Compost goes outside every day or so (can stay a day on the counter or longer in the fridge. Composts better if you shred it in a food processor first.)
    2a) If you don’t compost but have a green bin program, put the food waste in the same SMALL OPEN container in a sink cupboard, freezing when it starts getting even faintly offensive, then putting it out for pick up. Closing a lid on organic stuff that isn’t being carefully composted will kill you and all your pets. Trust me.
    3) Organic non-compostables go in the freezer, then are added to your outside garbage bin right before pickup.
    4) Recycling goes to recycling.
    5) Hazardous waste like batteries and CFBs gets set aside for special pick-up days or a trip to the appropriate depot.

  21. 21.

    p.a.

    June 29, 2010 at 8:33 am

    agreed- well wrapped seafood scraps in the freezer until trash day, and a post-it note on the door so you don’t forget it in there for a month.

  22. 22.

    p.a.

    June 29, 2010 at 8:37 am

    one more thing- any update on the ‘Rosie baring of teeth’ problem?

  23. 23.

    SteveinSC

    June 29, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Speaking of things that smell, it might be that I’m being made a fool of, but is there something new on the Trig story, a la Andrew Sullivan?

  24. 24.

    jayjaybear

    June 29, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Tried stevia once…the bitter aftertaste was horrible. I thought about trying Truvia but if it has the sugar alcohols in it, I have to skip it. Sugar alcohols do bad, bad things to my digestive system. General hazard-level bad.

    ‘Sokay. I’m not one of the ones who think Splenda has a bad taste, so I’m fine.

  25. 25.

    bcinaz

    June 29, 2010 at 8:45 am

    stevia – only use a little and not in coffee.

  26. 26.

    Phoenix Woman

    June 29, 2010 at 8:45 am

    I’m glad that Weigel managed to land at MSNBC; I’m a bit saddened that he felt the non-existent need to grovel to Breitbart.

  27. 27.

    Phoenix Woman

    June 29, 2010 at 8:48 am

    @jayjaybear: Same here. Stevia tastes nasty, but Splenda’s OK. I’ve actually made rhubarb empanadas with it; a little splash of citrus helps in this application (scarily enough, a teaspoon or two of powdered citrus-type drinks such as Tang or any Vitamin C supplement seem to work the best).

  28. 28.

    Olivia

    June 29, 2010 at 8:50 am

    You are using the wrong kind of Stevia. I have been using it for years but I get it at health food stores. The best type I have found is NOW Stevia Extract. It is a liquid and you only need a couple of drops to sweeten things. I suppose if I put in straight in my mouth it would be horrible but I can’t tell the difference between it and sugar when I add it to things.

  29. 29.

    Phyllis

    June 29, 2010 at 8:50 am

    @p.a.: Post it Note reminder-a key element of the process. My apologies for leaving that part out. Must be a file & look busy while pretending to read the same document all day long kind of day.

  30. 30.

    geg6

    June 29, 2010 at 8:54 am

    @Phyllis:

    For true insight into how anal retentive I truly am, I never need a Post It to remember this kind of thing. It’s always hovering around the edge of my consciousness until I take care of it.

    I know. It’s a sickness.

  31. 31.

    MattF

    June 29, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Look, the WaPo already employs Kristol, Gerson, and Theissen. Not to mention Will & Krauthammer. So, why ‘cover’ conservatism at all? It’s like asking a fundamentalist to ‘cover’ the Bible. My guess is that they’ll hire Hugh Hewitt to cover librulism.

  32. 32.

    Phoenix Woman

    June 29, 2010 at 8:59 am

    @Phoenix Woman: Eeep — wrong thread, meant for this comment to go in the previous one. Feel free to zap these both, John. Sorry!

  33. 33.

    Josie

    June 29, 2010 at 9:00 am

    I’m with Olivia on stevia. Get the extract, either in liquid or powder form and use a tiny bit. The secret is to use very little; if you overdo, it is a disaster. Let me know if anyone wants a comparison of amounts of stevia to sugar and I’ll post it. I have a cookbook I ordered that gives a chart on this.

  34. 34.

    JCT

    June 29, 2010 at 9:00 am

    @SteveinSC:

    I can’t imagine there is anything “new” — I think that when people first started to speculate that something was off about her story no one could imagine that anyone would be so nuts as to go through with such a crazy charade.

    Now that it is abundantly clear that she is nuts, folks are revisiting it.

    Personally, I could care less about the quitter grifter (unless I am subjected to her voice) except that her story about taking a long plane flight with leaking amniotic fluid in the late stage of a 5th pregnancy reflects such monumentally poor judgement that it should disqualify her for any responsible position.

  35. 35.

    blackwaterdog

    June 29, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Screw Russ Feingold. Idiot.

  36. 36.

    satby

    June 29, 2010 at 9:07 am

    @tBoy:
    tBoy, thanks for that dog bed link, I put it on my Facebook page. Hope it helps that group get a few more donations, they really need them, it looks like.

  37. 37.

    cleek

    June 29, 2010 at 9:08 am

    what’s wrong with sugar ?

  38. 38.

    Punchy

    June 29, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Loox like it’s gunna be upper 70s/lower 80s in da Windy Citay in early July. In early freakin’ July.

    Global warming is a hoax.

  39. 39.

    debit

    June 29, 2010 at 9:15 am

    @cleek: Indeed. I think things are too sweet as it is. Maybe it’s because I never really cared for soda, and so never developed a tolerance, but the amount of sugar in everything these days seems excessive. I recently bought some orange marmalade for a recipe, tried some on toast and nearly gagged at the sugar overload.

  40. 40.

    Keith G

    June 29, 2010 at 9:16 am

    @cleek: In small amounts, it tastes too good and has no deleterious side effects, so it must be avoided!!

  41. 41.

    tim

    June 29, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Ummm…hate to sound like a dog nazi, but you need to spend some serious time training your critters, for day and night time both.

    No reason other than slack training that they should be running out the door without your permission. Your laziness in that regard may get one of your beloved canines squished under a car in the street.

    could it be you enjoy the mayhem you bemoan?

    Also, too, your dogs belong in crates at night. Plenty of time for cuddling during the other 16 hours in a day.

    Firm pet/owner boundaries are healthy for everyone concerned.

  42. 42.

    Rosalita

    June 29, 2010 at 9:26 am

    @cleek:

    what’s wrong with sugar ?

    I was going to ask that myself. Some sugar in the raw, used in moderation, isn’t bad. Better than the chemical stuff IMO.

  43. 43.

    SteveinSC

    June 29, 2010 at 9:27 am

    @JCT:

    Personally, I could care less about the quitter grifter

    Well, Sullivan said she ought to come clean because she is either psychotic, recklessly endangering, or delusional. Given her continued prominence it politics. Her choice (a very brown Sikh, supposedly xtian for governor) here in the republican, crypto-racist (vide Bubba Knott’s “raghead comments”) primary won. I also think she should lay the question to rest. Obama laid the birther nonsense to rest with his birth certificate. How can Little Miss Annie Oakley do less, also?

  44. 44.

    Paulk

    June 29, 2010 at 9:27 am

    I gave up on all sweeteners several years ago rather than use the artificial kinds, none of which were very good.

    I used to hate Stevia, but my wife found that Whole Foods sells a French Vanilla Stevia Extract that is quite drinkable. I’m not into flavored coffees, but it doesn’t dramatically add flavor, and I can at least drink something that has been sweetened by it and it doesn’t taste very different from sugar.

  45. 45.

    Gemina13

    June 29, 2010 at 9:28 am

    You should have kept the shells! They make a great seafood stock (which is perfect for shrimp etouffee, crab pot pie, et al). Just put the used shells in a big Ziploc bag and freeze them. I’ve got one gallon bag of shrimp stock and another bag of shells waiting to be turned into more stock for the next time I make a big batch of etouffee. (Even the name just sounds delicious. Am I addicted? Oh, hell yes . . . :D)

  46. 46.

    Gemina13

    June 29, 2010 at 9:30 am

    @Josie:

    I’m diabetic, and weaning myself off Splenda. I’d be interested in your conversions for stevia, which I’ve started using. I like the stuff, but I’ll be honest–I really, really miss sugar.

  47. 47.

    jibeaux

    June 29, 2010 at 9:33 am

    I like SunCrystals (don’t they mix the stevia with sugar or something?), Truvia, and Splenda just fine, but I bought a significant container of stevia from Trader Joe’s on the assumption that apparently I wasn’t too picky so I should just get this stuff that was a great bargain. It looks like confectioner’s sugar and tastes like arsenic. I need to just throw it out, but I’m so cheap I keep parceling it into things at about a one-to-five ratio with sugar to use it up. I wonder if there’s some sort of self-help program for those of us who grew up absorbing the habits of fathers who turned off night lights after we fell asleep?

    If anyone remembers that my family finally got a puppy, he’s working out reasonably well now after one week exactly. He’s very cute, affectionate, playful, and reasonably good on a leash. We are still working on two traditional puppy issues, though: puppy biting, and housebreaking. The housebreaking we are trying to bring about by crating during the day — he’s very much crate trained — and taking him outside frequently otherwise, and praising like he’s won a Nobel prize when he goes outside. But we’ve not had a lot of success catching him in the act of going inside, which seems like it may be crucial to the teaching aspect. But, I assume it will gradually get better as he gets more in the habit of associating the outdoors with potty.
    The puppy biting is a little more frustrating, because we have tried the method where you shriek in exaggerated pain like a fellow puppy, and we have tried the “alpha dog” methods, where you close his mouth and scold, and we even put him in the submissive position the vet recommended. There’s been some improvement, but when he’s in the mood to bite, he is remarkably stubborn about it. I must have closed his mouth a hundred times by now. In frustration, I have started spraying his mouth with water when he bites, which he absolutely hates, but it tends to make him just stop engaging with you altogether and leave the room, when I’m just trying to redirect him to better ways to play.
    This is something that really needs to be fixed because it is setting a precedent early on that the kids are wanting to avoid him. They like walking him and petting him when he’s in a calm and cuddly mood, but when he’s in a playful mood he’s no fun for them.
    I’m sorry this is so very long, but is there any technique here I haven’t tried that anyone’s had some success with?

  48. 48.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    June 29, 2010 at 9:39 am

    There has to be a way to harness the power of the smell of three day old crab in garbage. Can’t that be used as a non-lethal chemical weapon?

    Here is an instructional video from PBS that teaches one how to deal with stinky refuse.

  49. 49.

    DanF

    June 29, 2010 at 9:48 am

    I sat on the back porch and had the sweetest, juiciest piece of watermelon ever.

    Last night my family dived into a plate of locally-grown sweet corn fresh from the farmer’s market. Melt. In. Your. Mouth goodness.

  50. 50.

    Josie

    June 29, 2010 at 9:53 am

    @Gemina13: I use KAL Pure Stevia Extract, a powdery form that I ordered from VitaCost. The cookbook is Stevia Sweet Recipes by Jeffrey Goettemoeller. I was incorrect that the conversion chart is in the book. I must have found it on the internet. I wrote in in the back of the book. Here it is:
    1 cup sugar = 1/2 cup splenda = 1/2 tsp stevia
    3/4 cup sugar = 12 T splenda = 1/4 tsp tsp stevia
    1/2 cup sugar = 1/4 cup splenda = 1/6 tsp stevia
    1/3 cup sugar = 1/6 cup splenda = 1/8 tsp stevia
    1/4 cup sugar = 1/8 cup splenda = pinch stevia
    2 tsp sugar = 1 tsp splenda = 1/2 pinch stevia
    The KAL extract has a tiny spoon in it that measures out a pinch.
    Hope that helps.

  51. 51.

    Jay C

    June 29, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Just for the purposes of conserving resources, a Handy Hint re buying stuff like artificial sweeteners or whatever – don’t make the mistake of buying a BIG container until you’re sure you like the stuff.

  52. 52.

    Phyllis

    June 29, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Last night my family dived into a plate of locally-grown sweet corn fresh from the farmer’s market. Melt. In. Your. Mouth goodness.

    We have some from a neighbor and there’s a recipe in the new Southern Living wherein you render some good slab bacon, cut the corn from the cob and use the knife to get the good, milky juice, then saute corn in bacon renderings until just before creamy, crumble bacon on top. I assume one passes on to the next realm after eating, because nothing else in life can come close. I’ll let you know.

  53. 53.

    AnnaN

    June 29, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Put me in the HATE column when it comes to Splenda and Stevia. For what purpose did you buy it? If it’s to flavor coffee, I would recommend a light agave syrup (dark agave has maple overtones). I use it all the time as I like my coffee cold with lots of milk and some sweeteness. Agave works better in mixing into cold substances.

    As for your sleeping issues with Rose and Lily – hahahahahahahaha! We have a couple of comfort hounds that take over the damn bottom of the bed and they weigh 65+ pounds each. Every single time I try to move The Chester over so I can get in and lie down, he grunts softly and then does some weird sort of doggy TaiChi push hands where I shove and shove and only manage to gain a quarter inch of space.

    If he wasn’t such a cuddle muffin….

  54. 54.

    Randy P

    June 29, 2010 at 10:14 am

    @Comrade Mary: That sounds like a lot of work, and I’m a reasonably dedicated recycler/composter.

    We keep a 5-gallon bucket with a lid under the sink for compostables, and it only gets emptied every few days, sometimes even longer. Yes, it can get disgusting, but for me that’s much of the joy of composting. No matter how disgusting, I know that I’m going to put it into the composter, cover it with leaves, immediately it will smell like a forest floor instead of rotting garbage, and it will come out at the bottom as this amazingly rich dirt.

    The other great thing about composting is that I hardly ever have to deal with bagging autumn leaves any more. Almost all of them go in a big pile next to the composter, and it’s just about the right amount to cover the composting till the next fall.

    Sometimes something goes bad in the fridge inside a plastic bag and my wife will throw it into the bucket, bag and all, for me to deal with. (Part of the deal in our marriage: “disgusting” is my department). If it’s an open bag I toss it right in. At harvest time I’ll pull out a clean dry bag and toss it in the trash. Same with rubber bands and things attached to vegetables.

    5) Hazardous waste like batteries and CFBs gets set aside for special pick-up days or a trip to the appropriate depot.

    We are now being told here (Pennsylvania and New Jersey but possibly the entire US now) that alkaline batteries and fluorescent bulbs are no longer considered hazardous waste and should go into the regular trash.

  55. 55.

    QuaintIrene

    June 29, 2010 at 10:15 am

    d the sweetest, juiciest piece of watermelon ever. I felt like I was ten again as the juices rolled down my chin.

    Ummm.
    You know what else is great this season? Red plums. So juicy and the flavor just bursts through. The quintessential taste of Summer.
    Summer fruits can be such a crap shoot. How many times I’ve bought peaches, trying to pick out the ones that weren’t rock hard. Then, even when they seemed to soften and ripen they were just mushy and tasteless.

  56. 56.

    bey

    June 29, 2010 at 10:19 am

    @jibeaux: Re: biting. Keep going with the high yelp when he accidentally bites and stop playing instantly. No interaction, no exceptions for a couple of minutes. He will eventually learn that biting results in no more fun and will quit.

    You don’t need to make a big production of it – it’s just getting him to understand that he has to be more gentle with you. It also goes almost without saying that the games you play with him shouldn’t be encouraging biting. Chase = ok, get the ball = ok, tug of war = not ok until he’s got more control.

  57. 57.

    Randy P

    June 29, 2010 at 10:21 am

    @QuaintIrene:

    Summer fruits can be such a crap shoot.

    Can somebody explain to me the deal with rhubarb? You hardly ever see it fresh, even at farm stands. When you do, you’ll go back the next week to the same people and they won’t have it.

    Is it really hard to grow? Does it have a really short season?

    I love all pies but I think strawberry rhubarb has got to be the runaway favorite. Fortunately I have a wife who will indulge me when I come home from the annual rhubarb hunt with a successful trophy. (Yes, I can make a pie. But she is much, much better, especially with rhubarb.)

  58. 58.

    geg6

    June 29, 2010 at 10:22 am

    @QuaintIrene:

    My John’s plum trees didn’t do so well last year, but they are looking fantastic this year (must be all the heat, rain, and sun). I can’t wait until they are ready for eating right off the tree. I want the plum juice running down my chin.

    We picked three buckets of black raspberries and one of red raspberries this past weekend. John has started making jam, to be finished this evening. Can’t wait for that, too.

  59. 59.

    eco2geek

    June 29, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Submitted for your approval: Dogs in lobster costumes. (Via.)

  60. 60.

    Bill H

    June 29, 2010 at 10:24 am

    There has to be a way to harness the power of the smell of three day old crab in garbage. Can’t that be used as a non-lethal chemical weapon?

    Wait one more day, at which point it becomes a lethal chemical weapon and you can sell it to the Army. Email me and I will give you the phone number for DARPA.

  61. 61.

    geg6

    June 29, 2010 at 10:27 am

    @eco2geek:

    Bwahahahahahaha!

    That second one has a bit of the look of Lily.

    And the bonus pic? Priceless. If looks could kill…

  62. 62.

    Randy P

    June 29, 2010 at 10:31 am

    @geg6: I think number 2 is a Corgi. They’re awfully good natured dogs. This one certainly is. There’s something about that low-to-the-ground shape that just makes me grin (dachsunds don’t do it for me in the same way for some reason). A lot of the ones on that page look a little depressed/embarrassed though.

  63. 63.

    Svensker

    June 29, 2010 at 10:33 am

    @Randy P:

    Can somebody explain to me the deal with rhubarb? You hardly ever see it fresh, even at farm stands. When you do, you’ll go back the next week to the same people and they won’t have it.
    Is it really hard to grow? Does it have a really short season?

    Short season, grows only in cool climates. Most delicious pie ever (except for the tiny wild blackberries that my mom used to get at the spot near her beach, but both mom and the spot are gone now).

  64. 64.

    elmo

    June 29, 2010 at 10:33 am

    @jibeaux:

    This is the method my partner (retired professional dog trainer) and I use on the stubbornest puppy biters.

    Most important thing to note at the outset: THIS IS NOT A PUNISHMENT. You are not doing this because you are angry. You are not doing this to show disapproval. Your tone will be light, you will use little force, and you will not hurt the dog.

    Okay. With that firmly in mind, when the puppy puts his mouth on your hand, don’t pull away — push. Get a finger at the back of his tongue, at the uncomfortable gag spot.

    We usually talk to the puppy in a puzzled tone. “Gee, why would you want my hand in your mouth? Isn’t that uncomfortable?” Keep it light, but make the puppy uncomfortable.

    When he gags and retreats, remove your hand, and continue to behave in a light, normal, playful fashion. Remember — this is not a punishment. This is just what naturally happens when the mouth goes on the hand.

    It isn’t any fun for the people — nasty slimy dog spit between the fingers, ugh — but the point is, it isn’t any fun for the pup either. And not because you are angry, or disapproving, or scolding, which is drama and all part of the game. It’s no fun because it’s uncomfortable. And if the pup perceives gagging as the natural and unavoidable consequence of putting his mouth on your hand, he will stop doing it because it’s no fun.

    Once you decide to do this, you must do it every single time. The whole point is to prove that this is what happens naturally, not what you sometimes do when you feel like it. Doing it only sometimes means that some other times, the puppy is getting what he wants by putting his mouth on your hand. This sets up what we call a VSR — a Variable System of Reinforcement — which is the absolute best way to ensure that he will keep trying to get the reward. So it’s 100% or don’t do it at all.

  65. 65.

    jibeaux

    June 29, 2010 at 10:36 am

    @bey:

    That’s the technique we started with, but the problem with the “walking away” part is that he just chases your ankles and keeps biting, if he’s really wound up. I will probably go back to it though. I just am getting a little worried because my sister’s dog, who is not a paragon of good behavior or remarkable intelligence, was apparently broken of puppy biting within a day. It could be the breed that’s making it take longer….this one is a terrier mix, and he fancies himself a ferocious little hunter, as one Elmo stuffed toy and many random insects that have crossed his path could attest.

  66. 66.

    fucen tarmal

    June 29, 2010 at 10:38 am

    if you put sugar in your coffee, its either a habit, or you need better, not necessarily more expensive coffee…

    i’m not much of a food geek, my favorite food is “ready”, so it would be hard to get into a lot of the stuff other people do with food, but i do insist on a quality cup of coffee.

    i’m one of those annoying people who will struggle through a morning of meetings looking at the free coffee urn with pity, and go out and spend cash dollars i can’t expense on a good coffee, and probably a couple of esspresso kickers at the shop…

  67. 67.

    Fern

    June 29, 2010 at 10:39 am

    @cleek: What’s wrong with sugar? Plenty, if you are diabetic.

  68. 68.

    PurpleGirl

    June 29, 2010 at 10:41 am

    @Rosalita: Unless you’re diabetic and have to control and/or cut down (or cut out completely) the amount of sugar so you can control your body’s production/use of insulin.

    I began to use SweetLeaf brand of stevia and found the powder desolves in hot liquids faster than cold ones. And it satisfies my sweet cravings for coffee and tea.

  69. 69.

    Max Bialystok

    June 29, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Stevia actually refers to the plant from which the extracts are derived. The two main sweet compounds in stevia extracts are Stevioside and Rebaudioside A (Reb A). Both compounds are about 300x sweeter than sugar, but Stevioside is bitter, with a licorice-like aftertaste, whereas Reb A is less so, therefore the flavor of your stevia extract will depend on the relative amounts of each compound. John’s stevia might contain a high proportion of Stevioside.

    Truvia is an extract that has been enriched in Reb A, with some added erythritol to counteract any aftertaste. A little goes a long way.

    As for Splenda- chemically that’s trichlorosucrose. Personally I tend to steer clear of anything that’s polychlorinated.

  70. 70.

    cleek

    June 29, 2010 at 10:42 am

    @Fern:
    is JC diabetic ?

  71. 71.

    cleek

    June 29, 2010 at 10:44 am

    @Max Bialystok:

    Personally I tend to steer clear of anything that’s polychlorinated.

    hope you don’t live in NY: the entire Hudson River is polychlorinated, and biphenylized.

  72. 72.

    Fern

    June 29, 2010 at 10:48 am

    @cleek: Took your question in the general sense, not specifically about John.

  73. 73.

    AnnaN

    June 29, 2010 at 10:52 am

    @ Randy P:
    Rhubarb is bitter, the leaves are poisonous and the stalk is woody. In order to enjoy it, you need to cook it to break down the fibrous matter and load it up with sugar or serve it with something sweet (rhubarb pie with ice cream) to make it palatable to most people.

    My grandmother grew it in her garden without much trouble and made the best canned strawberry/rhubarb compotes and pies. It just took a lot of effort.

  74. 74.

    AnnaN

    June 29, 2010 at 10:55 am

    RE: Using the gag reflex to train dogs not to bite

    Worked perfectly well with almost all of our dogs (five and counting). You just need a gentle stroke to make it work.

    However, we had one dog that would practically swallow your hand and gnaw on your wrist as you were tickling his whole throat and tongue trying to find his gag reflex.

  75. 75.

    Max Bialystok

    June 29, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Cleek-

    hope you don’t live in NY: the entire Hudson River is polychlorinated, and biphenylized.

    I knew I picked the wrong decade to give up drinking Hudson water.

  76. 76.

    Maude

    June 29, 2010 at 10:57 am

    I’m so glad other people put stinky garbage in a plastic bag and into the freezer. I’ve been doing it for years.

  77. 77.

    cleek

    June 29, 2010 at 11:02 am

    @Fern:
    ah.
    then, yeah, i guess you’re right, in the general sense.

  78. 78.

    4jkb4ia

    June 29, 2010 at 11:03 am

    @Phoenix Woman:

    Did not take long at all for him to get a new job for people who would appreciate him.

  79. 79.

    Comrade Mary

    June 29, 2010 at 11:04 am

    However, we had one dog that would practically swallow your hand and gnaw on your wrist as you were tickling his whole throat and tongue trying to find his gag reflex.

    You could have made a lot of money with that dog.

  80. 80.

    jibeaux

    June 29, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Sigh. I’d read about the gag reflex thing, too, but 1) major ick factor, and 2) let’s say that I do this consistently, but I am the only one in a household of 4 that is doing it consistently, because the others are just not going to do that. Will it still work to deter him from biting all of us or will he just come to view me as some kind of weird pervert?

  81. 81.

    Shinobi

    June 29, 2010 at 11:18 am

    John,
    You can definitely train your dogs to wait at the door and leave on your command. It is a lot of work, and you’ll probably want to start one at a time and then work up to both of them waiting at the door until you release them. Victoria Stillwell has a bunch of shows where she trained dogs with door darting and greeting issues it is probably one of the most common things she does. But right now you are rewarding their door darting with a fun game of run away from the human. This could be dangerous and a hard habit to break.

    You can also teach them to move their adorable butts so you can climb into bed. Our dog knows that when my boyfriend comes to bed he has to get up and make room, sometimes it takes him a minute or so, but if he doesn’t move then he gets sat on, so y’know, he moves.

    It’s funny but having a dog that weighs 90lbs makes you realize how much training people with small dogs get away with not doing. I think the only time I have EVER physically moved my dog is at the groomer (he absolutely will not walk through the door he just sits as soon as we get to the threshold like “oh HELL no” so the last couple of times I have just picked him up and carried him in, which was hilarious.) Otherwise it is just impractical to try to force him to do things. It is ultimately easier to teach him what we want.

    (If only this worked on cats.)

  82. 82.

    Randy P

    June 29, 2010 at 11:24 am

    @jibeaux: In my experience it is possible for a dog to learn that the rules are different for different people, but it takes a certain amount of smarts. For instance, our beloved Lab didn’t chew on anybody but me. If she was being confused or frustrated by the kids in some game, she’d tend to come over to me and start gnawing gently on a hand or wrist. It didn’t bug me and it didn’t translate into chewing on anything else in the house (something Labs are notorious for) or anybody else.

    Also she knew that you never EVER get on the furniture when mom or dad is around, but you can get away with it when the kids invite you up.

    She wasn’t the smartest dog I ever had but she was pretty good. We had a fairly complex hand-signal language that just grew naturally during training and which I eventually used in preference to spoken commands.

  83. 83.

    Keith G

    June 29, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Since food is one of the topics:

    Just got back from a walk to a local Wholefoods-esque market (less expensive – fun place).

    Having a spur of the moment brunch snack of their “homemade” hummus spread on their equally homemade olive rolls.

    Yumeeee.

  84. 84.

    JGabriel

    June 29, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Finally bought a big container of stevia. It tastes terrible.

    I like it, though admittedly I prefer mixing stevia with sugar – roughly 4 equivalent* parts stevia to 5 parts sugar – to cut my sugar intake, rather than using stevia by itself.

    I use a brand called Stevia in the Raw (aka Stevia Extract in the Raw); it has a touch of an anise/licorice flavor to it with no saccharin-like aftertaste, but it’s so concentrated that there’s no mouth feel to it. Using the proportions above preserves the mouth feel of sugar, while cutting down the calories from it. Probably not much use for diabetics that way, but useful for people looking to just cut a few calories and carbs from their diets.

    *I.E., 5 teaspoons of real sugar combined with whatever amount your stevia box says is equal to 4 teaspoons sugar.

    .

  85. 85.

    Woodrowfan

    June 29, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    so, do you put a little salt on your watermelon? I love it but my wife thinks that it’s really odd.

  86. 86.

    Phoenix Woman

    June 29, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    By the way, FinReg will still likely pass as Byrd’s replacement is a) going to be picked by WV’s governor, and b) will almost certainly be a vote for FinReg.

  87. 87.

    Hob

    June 29, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    @jibeaux: It’s not all that icky – you’re not actually sticking your hand down the dog’s throat or trying to make him barf, you’re just poking his tongue – the same drooly tongue that’s probably been all over your face and clothes and furniture all day.

    As far as “what if the other people don’t do it”, I would say as long as you’re with the puppy enough of the time that he doesn’t think you’re just a houseguest who plays weird games, and as long as the other people aren’t letting him bite them all the time, then it has a good chance of working.

    I would still keep the alarm-yelp rule as a backup though – in case he nips you and doesn’t give you a chance to do the tongue thing, then you have to do the yelp. They really understand it – I’ve seen my big rompy shepherd stop on a dime if another dog makes that noise, whether they were wrestling or the other dog was 10 feet away and just got nervous.

    Holding the mouth closed just doesn’t work at all though. It keeps you from getting bitten again right then, but dogs don’t get what it means, in my experience.

  88. 88.

    elmo

    June 29, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    @jibeaux:

    Heh, funny. No, it probably won’t work if nobody else does it. Sorry — I know it’s hard trying to maintain consistency with a houseful of people.

  89. 89.

    elmo

    June 29, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    @Shinobi:

    It’s funny but having a dog that weighs 90lbs makes you realize how much training people with small dogs get away with not doing.

    OMG so true, and it’s true in reverse as well. Partner and I have always had big dogs. German Shepherds mostly, but we also raised Lab pups for Canine Companions. And our dogs have always had the best manners.

    Then we picked up a 25-pound Chihuahua-French Bulldog mix at the dump. And now it’s “Who’s the little smoochums? Ooga-wooga little smoochums?” as he jumps up on the couch uninvited, steals my shoes, and (horrors!) jumps up and puts his PAWS ON MY LEGS when I get home from work.

  90. 90.

    Hob

    June 29, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    @Comrade Mary: When I was a youngish RN and still a little unlearned in the ways of the world, I took care of a lot of patients recovering from anesthesia and endoscopic procedures that leave your throat all numb for a while, so it’s not safe to swallow food till that wears off (i.e. you could choke). The way we were trained to check whether the patient could eat yet was, you get them to hold still and say ah, and lightly brush the back of their mouth with a popsicle stick, and see if there’s an involuntary twitch.

    So one day I had to ask my supervisor to help me out because I figured I must be doing it wrong – it had been hours, the patient was really hungry, and the test didn’t seem to work at all. The guy humored us both for a while as we prodded with the popsicle stick. Then, sounding kind of embarrassed but very amused, he said: “Are you checking for a gag reflex? That probably won’t work. Uh… I’ve sort of… trained myself not to have a gag reflex. Why? Oh… just because.” [pause; penny drops] “Heh.”

  91. 91.

    Hob

    June 29, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    @Hob: “As far as ‘what if the other people don’t do it'”… actually, don’t listen to me. Listen to elmo. I’m still kind of a dog newbie & may be too optimistic.

  92. 92.

    Randy P

    June 29, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    @Hob:
    Well, in your defense, sword-swallowing is not all that common a profession.

    What?

  93. 93.

    Meg

    June 29, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    @geg6:

    That’s basically what I do, too.
    I put all the trimmed fat and smelly thing in the freezer before the trash day. But instead of a ziplock bag, I just use a normal plastic bag.

  94. 94.

    Barry

    June 29, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    John: “Last night as the sun was setting and it was getting cooler and the humidity was becoming bearable, I sat on the back porch and had the sweetest, juiciest piece of watermelon ever. I felt like I was ten again as the juices rolled down my chin.”

    Don’t forget the joy of the puzzled looks on the dogs’ faces, as they wonder why you could enjoy eating something which doesn’t smell like food.

  95. 95.

    AnnaN

    June 29, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    @Comrade Mary

    Hah! Oh, poor Kirby.

  96. 96.

    ruemara

    June 29, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    John, if you got a big thing of raw stevia (green powder) that takes some serious adjustment. You should go with truvia or my preferred, NuNaturals NuStevia in either liquid or powder form. You can cook with it, provided you don’t add it at first. Xylitol is also good, not as sweet, has calories but pours more like sugar. That is not good to bake with, but it is useful as a sugary topping.

    Yeah, I did an article on this stuff.

    Trying to compost animal stuffs? 2 words-Bokashi, Now.
    Nice to see the dogs are bonding so well.

    Can’t believe so many don’t like the stevia. I grow it in my garden so I can chew the leaves like gum. Then again, I’ve lived on the raw stuff so I’m inured.

  97. 97.

    Southern Beale

    June 29, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Finally bought a big container of stevia. It tastes terrible. Back to splenda and turbinado for me.

    Try agave nectar. Like Stevia it doesn’t raise the blood sugar but the flavor is far more pure.

    Splenda is nasty. Might as well just eat sugar if you’re going to go that route.

  98. 98.

    merrinc

    June 29, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    @Olivia:

    Yes, a little bit of stevia goes a long way. I’m wondering where our esteemed host bought a big container of stevia because around here (NC), it is dreadfully expensive. A box of 100 single serving packets at the health food store is around $10.

    I use half a packet in my cereal in the morning and I don’t notice any aftertaste. Splenda, OTOH, makes me gag. Different strokes…

  99. 99.

    Dredd

    June 29, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Oil leases are taking place in Afghanistan. And Iraq.

  100. 100.

    Original Lee

    June 29, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    @jibeaux: I haven’t read the whole thread, so forgive me if this is duplicative.

    On the housebreaking thing (having just done this with a litter of fosters) – you need to teach your pup the “Hurry up” command. You only put down food for 10 minutes (I guess at your pup’s age twice a day?), pick it up after that, and then after 5-10 minutes take him outside. Once he’s on the grass, stay right near him and watch him like a hawk until he goes. The minute he starts to go, say “Hurry up!” and when he’s done, praise him. Pups usually do their thing 20-30 minutes after they finish eating, 10-15 minutes after drinking. Pretty soon (within a week or so), your pup will be peeing and pooping on command. We give the pups little pieces of bacon for successful performance of Hurry Up. We also used Puppy Pads to help with housebreaking – they are treated with something that makes them attractive to pups, so in the early stages of housebreaking, anytime they exhibited signs of looking for a place to to, we’d shove one underneath and praise them for going on it.

    WRT biting – keep small rawhide bones, puppy Kongs, etc. in your pocket. If the pup grabs your hand, finger, whatever, make a negative noise (I use a kind of nasal buzzer like eeehh), and substitute what you want him to chew on. No drama – that is entertaining. Just make it very matter-of-fact, and it actually is even better if you can anticipate the biting and forestall it by producing the chew toy first and praising him for using it.

  101. 101.

    Original Lee

    June 29, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    I just read about the gag reflex technique from the other posters. It doesn’t work well if only one person does it or if you have a big difference in hand size in the household (i.e., between adult and child), although I’m not sure exactly why – mouth feel, maybe, or difference in pack status? Turning your back on the pup and ignoring him when he does something wrong (like biting) can be a good reinforcer. Ignoring him for several minutes is hard, though, when you have to keep spinning to keep your back to him – you have to turn slowly and calmly.

  102. 102.

    Gatsby

    June 29, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    How about using organic agave nectar? It’s natural, and a little goes a long way. No nasty taste either.

  103. 103.

    BethanyAnne

    June 29, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    @jayjaybear: doh, this is going to be *mucho* later, but I don’t post from work. There are 3 sugar alcohols that are used as sweeteners, IIRC. Truvia uses the least likely to cause those symptoms. :) I’m not a shill for truvia; I’m just happy to finally have a low-cal sweetener that I’m not scared of, and that tastes ok to me. :)

  104. 104.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 29, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    @cleek: Agreed. For the non-diabetics, nothing beats the real thing.

    Pics, Cole! Tunchie, Lily, and Rosalita!

  105. 105.

    cathaireverywhere

    June 29, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    Some stevia is really bitter and nasty, but I love Stevita stevia. It is in drop form, and comes in various flavors. 8 drops is enough for a 16 oz. glass of mineral water or tea. I particularly like the mango-flavored drops. Are you making sweet tea? I’m not sure anything but sugar tastes good in that….

  106. 106.

    cathaireverywhere

    June 29, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    BTW- I’ve done some reading about agave, and it has about the same calories/sugars as regular sugar or honey. I originally read that agave is lower on the glycemic index, but then I’ve read more recent stuff saying that’s not true.

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