Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The willow is too close to the house.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

An almost top 10,000 blog!

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

No one could have predicted…

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Argentina v Germany Open Thread

Reader Interactions

223Comments

  5. 5.

    IM

    I appreciate the sentiment, but tend to be pessimistic. On the other hand, I was sure Brazil would be a finalist.

  6. 6.

    beltane

    The moment Maradona smugly asserted that an Argentina win was part of God’s plan was the moment I became a Germany fan. There’s trash talk and then there’s being an asshole-Maradona crossed that line.

  9. 9.

    Corner Stone

    I shall be rooting for Argentina, aka The Texas of South America.
    I have no choice.

  11. 11.

    beltane

    I’d like to see a Netherlands/Spain final. It would be like the 16th century all over again.

  12. 12.

    frankdawg

    Like war, God always seems to side with the guys that have better weapons.

    Wer wird Deutscher Meister?

    @beltane:
    if only they would play in 16th C garb!

  19. 19.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    Will Germany be the first to take a 1-0 lead home to victory in the quarters?

  21. 21.

    Bootlegger

    ‘dona looks lost, first time in the tournament he hasn’t been comfortably in control.

  24. 24.

    frankdawg

    @Bootlegger:
    What was that? I hadn’t heard that one.

    Ya know, for a game where ‘nobody ever scores’ there sure have been a lot of early goals.

  27. 27.

    Bootlegger

    @IM: Yes, the Deutschlandanders are picking up pressure at midfield and not giving the gouchos time on the ball, then coming forward with numbers. Good tactics so far.

  28. 28.

    Bootlegger

    @frankdawg: After a friendly these teams played earlier this year, Müller was on the press stand and Mardona refused to share it “with the ball boy”.

  30. 30.

    Bootlegger

    No room for the gouchos so far, the Germans are keeping a compact shape. Messi will need to pick out some diagonal runs to crack it.

  31. 31.

    IM

    @Bootlegger: Maradona was once a very young star himself – well the ball boy has shown him.

  36. 36.

    Bootlegger

    There was one of those diagonal runs, but too close to goal. Germany’s shape is superb.

  39. 39.

    burnspbesq

    Speaking of loathsome little toads, Kyle Martino is doing color for ESPN Radio.

  40. 40.

    Bootlegger

    Tevez isn’t afraid to dive. One thing I love about Messi is that he’d rather stay on the ball than go down.

  46. 46.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    The Argentine team certainly hasn’t come off as at all likable this morning.

  49. 49.

    Violet

    @stuckinred:

    They changed that “own goal” from the Bazil-Holland game btw.

    They did?

    Note: Argentina is wearing white socks, in addition to the blue and white striped shirt. This could be bad news for them.

  50. 50.

    IM

    Note: Argentina is wearing white socks, in addition to the blue and white striped shirt. This could be bad news for them

    That is funny, Germany should play white.

  51. 51.

    Bootlegger

    @Alex S.: Something to the hot-headed latin stereotype eh? The Dutch certainly exploited it yesterday and you know the Deutsch have no trouble borrowing from their neighbors.

  52. 52.

    stuckinred

    They changed that “own goal” from the Bazil-Holland game [email protected]Violet:

    JOHANNESBURG — Wesley Sneijder has been credited with the Netherlands’ first goal in the 2-1 quarterfinal win over Brazil and shares the lead atop the World Cup scoring chart.

    Sneijder’s cross in the 53rd minute glanced off Felipe Melo’s head into an unguarded goal in Friday’s match and was announced as an own goal by the Brazil midfielder.

    I thought it was stupid in the first place.

  53. 53.

    frankdawg

    @Bootlegger:
    NICE! Always pays to be an asshole when you don’t need to be.

    nice dive by the Argentinian.

    . . . and . . . its time for a booger break!

  55. 55.

    Anya

    Poor Tevez gets bullied by taller players.

    Why does Messi always take free kicks or corners. They should have someone else do it for once.

  56. 56.

    valdivia

    late to the thread but you can all imagine I am a happy camper. Go Germany! And thank you Randinho for expressing my sentiments so perfectly!

  58. 58.

    Randinho

    What’s really stupid about the yellow for Mueller is that DeMaria moved his hand in the direction of the ball, touched it and Germany was only given a free kick.

    I’ve been saying all along that Argentina has faced very weak competition. Germany is owning the midfield right now.

  59. 59.

    mcd410x

    Germany are playing more greatly than the sum of their individuals. Argentina less than.

  60. 60.

    Joe

    At Mueller’s “hand ball” Messi touched the ball with his hand as well just beforehand. Also you had the typical unpleasant sight of Argentinian players running to the ref waving their hands with imaginary cards to pressure the referee into carding the German. I’m sure that used to be a yellow card offence in itself.

  61. 61.

    IM

    They slacked off a little in the last 15 Minutes. They have to bring more pressure again in the second half. Just playing for time is too risky with a 1:0.

  62. 62.

    davement

    having a hard time rooting for argentina. much too much complaining especially from tevez. agree with bootlegger about messi though. hoping he will be rewarded for trying to play honorably. as for germany only ozil has gone down without much provocation thus far that i can recall. that viewing the game has devolved into trying to decide who is overacting seems unfortunate but it does sharping my rooting interest.

  63. 63.

    SRW1

    Slightly OT: Angela M. really must be desperate to detract from her problems at home. She already shows up at a quaterfinal game? If Germany makes it to the final, is she gonna camp out in South Africa for the next eight days?

  64. 64.

    Violet

    @IM:

    That is funny, Germany should play white.

    My theory, backed by not a lot of data points, is that the teams that wear white lose in this World Cup. So far, it’s been fairly accurate, but not perfect.

  65. 65.

    Anya

    @IM: Germans should continue dominating the possession and get physical. They’re very good at retaining the ball, but it did not translate goals. They squandered too many chances.

  67. 67.

    Randinho

    OT, but from the Guardian Live Blog:

    Some bad pre-match news for Maradona: cheeky Uruguay funster Luis Suarez has parked his tank on El Diego’s lawn, and is planning to pop out the top with a view to piping out a wee drop or two of the Special Territorial Water from his front tail. “The Hand of God now belongs to me,” he says. You know what this is about. “Mine is the real Hand Of God. I made the best save of the tournament. Sometimes in training I play as a goalkeeper so it was worth it. There was no alternative but for me to do that and when they missed the penalty I thought ‘It is a miracle and we are alive in the tournament’.” As this report is a sanctimony-free zone, we’ll not be going into the rights and wrongs of last night’s game here, but whichever side of the argument you stand, you have got to admit: that is one hell of a quote. If Maradona bests it by the end of the day, we’ll be doing well.

    Fuck Luis Suarez. I hope Uruguay gets eaten by the Dutch and Suarez gets a five match ban for the comment.

  69. 69.

    Bootlegger

    @Randinho:

    Germany is owning the midfield right now.

    They are playing a very compact formation, squeezing the gauchos into 1/4 of the field. Of course this formation is susceptible to the diagonal run but the German high pressure on the passers and a dearth of gaucho runners is taking that away. Messi can’t crack it on the dribble, he needs targets.

  71. 71.

    IM

    If they can keep Argentine in their own half, they perhaps don’t need another goal of their own.

  77. 77.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    Is Germany particularly young? Ozil, Mueller, Schweinsteiger. Anyone else?

  78. 78.

    IM

    There is a legend in german soccer that Hitler did cause the german team in 1938 to lose by packing it with to many worthless austrians.

  80. 80.

    Bootlegger

    @stuckinred: I haven’t read the report, but there was a collision between the two Brazilians, or maybe they decided Melo was trying to get out of the way at the last second. Probably its just more great officiating from the FIFA bunch.

  85. 85.

    stuckinred

    @Bootlegger: I guess I’ll never get the finer points of this game. People railing that the handball yesterday was “cheating” mystifies me. They had NO chance and that turned it into a chance.

  88. 88.

    Violet

    Argentina seems to be getting a lot of chances but just can’t finish. Am I seeing that right?

  90. 90.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    Have the Argentines ever committed a foul?

  91. 91.

    stuckinred

    THIS was cheating and it was legal!

    On Aug. 31, 1987, Dave Bresnahan was the Michelangelo of potato sculpting. He sacrificed five fine tubers to the spud gods – death via peel – before settling on the correct shape. He drew red lines on the winner to simulate seams, only to see them erased by the potato’s weeping. He wielded that peeler like a true artiste.

    Because in order to pull off the greatest prank in baseball history, Bresnahan needed to shape a potato like a baseball.

    “I went to Williamsport (Pa.) this past weekend to celebrate the anniversary,” Bresnahan says today from his Arizona home, 20 years after he ended his career as a catcher for the Double-A Williamsport Bills by feigning to pick off an opponent at third base by chucking a potato into left field, then using the real baseball to tag the runner when he scurried home – a hidden-ball trick to end all hidden-ball tricks.

  93. 93.

    Bootlegger

    @stuckinred: Personally I wouldn’t call desperation like that goal-line handball one of the “finer points” of this or any other game. People hated hack-a-Shaq too but it was very effective.

    2-0.

  101. 101.

    Peter J

    Slightly OT: Angela M. really must be desperate to detract from her problems at home. She already shows up at a quaterfinal game? If Germany makes it to the final, is she gonna camp out in South Africa for the next eight days?

    My guess is that she’s flying back and forth, she was at the game vs England too.

    And Germany scores again.

  104. 104.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    Who made that pass to Podolski while he was falling down? That was a nice play.

  107. 107.

    Bootlegger

    @Violet: The Germans are giving them a lot of the ball then trying to stuff attacks as they come. So it will look more and more like Argentina is dominating but watch how closely every gaucho is marked. The Germans simply are not giving them space in the attacking third of the field.

  111. 111.

    stuckinred

    I like that, the German get it in the ankle and stands up and gets back in the game. . .like a MAN!

  119. 119.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @Bootlegger: I’m not seeing the Argentine domination. Of course, I’m new to watching this, so I may be missing the finer points.

  123. 123.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @Bootlegger: Yeah, I have been impressed with Germany’s lack of drama. They’ve won me over, though I’m still a fan of the Dutch.

  125. 125.

    Leeds man

    At least England got 4 or 5 good scoring chances on Germany. Has Argentina had any (I haven’t been able to watch much)?

  134. 134.

    burnspbesq

    Mascherano and the sub Pastore have been pretty much the only bright spots for Argentina.

  136. 136.

    Bootlegger

    @That’s Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN): In terms of possession, time on the ball, amount of time spent on the other team’s half, or forays into the box. The German strategy is to give this to them but deny them space in the attacking third, then run rampant on the counterattack. This isn’t the typical desperation defending or bunker-down-and-counter, its a very deliberate formation and set of tactics deployed specifically against a team that is very adept at the short passing game but suspect at the back.

  140. 140.

    shirk

    Damn, but this is satisfying. Every time the camera shows Maradona’s face I’m filled with schadenfreude.

    OTOH, the Germans are looking scary in how they’ve controlled the match. Given how young they are, it seems like we’re looking at a long stretch of German domination of international football…

  141. 141.

    Anya

    Germany, owned the game from the start…good tempo, possession and great D. Argentina couldn’t penetrate the Berlin wall.

  142. 142.

    J.W. Hamner

    My inexpert self picks Uruguay v. Germany as the final match. Sorry for the lack of faith in the Netherlands, but they seem to do better that way,

  143. 143.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @Bootlegger: I understand that. I was attempting to say that every time I look up, the Germans have the ball. They may be willing to let the Argentines have the ball, but the Argentines aren’t taking it.

  144. 144.

    Corner Stone

    @Randinho:

    Fuck Luis Suarez. I hope Uruguay gets eaten by the Dutch and Suarez gets a five match ban for the comment.

    There’s only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures. And the Dutch.

  145. 145.

    Joe

    BBC commentators talking about the potential for the final being a repeat of Euro 2008 (i.e. Germany v Spain). A fine trick that would be given that they will meet in the Semi Final assuming Spain win tonight.

  146. 146.

    Violet

    @valdivia:
    Hee. I remember from previous threads that he’s not your favorite guy.

    So is Messi going to go the entire World Cup without a goal?

  148. 148.

    Bootlegger

    Messi just stomped on a German’s thigh (accidently perhaps) but the German defender hopped right up, gave it a rub, and got back into his defensive position. Now THAT, is real football.

  152. 152.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    See, I just looked up again. The Argentines have managed the amazing feat of losing 2-0 to both Germany and Poland at the same time.

  160. 160.

    Leeds man

    @J.W. Hamner:

    A team is only as good as the opposition lets them be. Argentina was far from impressive. I’m half hoping for a Holland-Germany final, although it would almost certainly get ugly.

  162. 162.

    Alex S.

    Klose plays as if he was 10 years younger….

    This game is a landmark. The german team can play in this constellation for at least 5 more years.

  165. 165.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    Awwwww, is poor Diego going to cry. Have a tissue.

  170. 170.

    Violet

    The curse of the white uniforms continues. Who’s wearing white in the second game today?

  172. 172.

    Steeplejack

    __

    I truly hope the Germans wipe that smile off Maradona’s face.

    Have to admit I am enjoying the fact that Argentina is getting not just beaten but slaughtered.

  173. 173.

    Corner Stone

    That is one handsome man they keep showing on Germany’s sidelines.
    I have it on mute so haven’t heard the name.

  174. 174.

    Bootlegger

    @Violet: Paraguay is “home” which means they’ll be wearing their stripes and Spain will be in red. Not sure about the shorts.

  175. 175.

    That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)

    @Corner Stone: Germany is one good looking team. Klose. Muller. Several others. I don’t go for the Latin look.

  176. 176.

    limniade

    Am I the only one who read this as, “wipe that smile off Madonna’s face”? I was like, what’d she do to the Germans?

  177. 177.

    mcd410x

    This isn’t your father’s Germany. Your grandfather’s, perhaps.

    Can’t wait to read a recap tonight about the demise of European football …

  178. 178.

    Andy K

    @Leeds man:

    I’m not. The Celeste are playing strong utilitarian football. They’re capable of wearing down through frustration anyone who’s left.

  181. 181.

    valdivia

    OMFG, Univision is saying that the problem with the Argentina was that Maradona didn’t have good technical advise from the other coaches on the bench. Wha????
    Are they now going to make him a martyr?

  183. 183.

    Violet

    @Bootlegger:
    Sounds like Paraguay may have more white on their uniforms. Will have to wait to see. At some point it comes down to what’s on the collars and socks and so forth.

    I realize this theory is ridiculous, but I started noticing it happening in the group stage. And when the US wore in white in the match against Ghana, I predicted they’d lose. They did. Then England wore white against Germany and they lost. And it’s pretty much kept on from there.

    If I’d bet based on uniforms, I might have made some money by now.

  190. 190.

    Andy K

    @Corner Stone:

    It’s German national (Bayer Leverkusen, formerly for Chelsea) midfielder Michael Ballack, the captain of the team until he was injured by Kevin Prince-Boateng (Ghana, Portsmouth) in the FA Cup final.

  193. 193.

    Corner Stone

    Everyone is right, it is Michael Ballack I saw and appreciated in a confident heterosexual way.

  194. 194.

    New Yorker

    suck it, Maradona. I hope Uruguay wins and the celebration in Montivideo is audible all the way across the Rio de la Plata.

  200. 200.

    New Yorker

    @valdivia:

    Oh yeah, watching Germany has been a thing of beauty. Once the USA was gone, it became “anyone but Brazil and Argentina” for me. I get a chuckle out of the fact that Paraguay and Uruguay are the last teams standing for South America.

  201. 201.

    SRW1

    Given that Diego Armando Maradonna apparently is in this eternal battle with one Edison Arantes do Nascimento as to who is the best player ever, you gotta say that Diego has a lot of detractors.

    The ‘good news’ for Diego today: Lionel Messi definitively didn’t do anything on the occasion of this WC to one day claim the throne. And these opportunities to shine at a WC are not a dime a dozen.

  203. 203.

    daveNYC

    @valdivia: Really? I though the problem with Argentina was that they let Germany freaking dribble the ball all the way into the goal, twice.

  204. 204.

    New Yorker

    @SRW1:

    I think it’s because Maradona is the biggest asshole coach in sports this side of Mike Krzyzewski.

  205. 205.

    SLKRR

    The mood here in Brazil has certainly lightened since yesterday. People were launching fireworks and cheering after every German goal… (all those fireworks they had bought for yesterday and then had to put away…oops).

    I guess the #Europefail was a little premature. If someone had told you before the tournament that only one* Latin American team would be in the semis, how many of you would have been nuts enough to put down money on it being Uruguay?

    *same bet if Paraguay beats Spain, except even more nuts

  207. 207.

    valdivia

    @New Yorker:

    as I have made abundantly clear here for me it was really all about anyone but Argentina. So today was really sweet.

    @SLKRR:
    I have a friend who is a crazed brazilian futbol fan. he has been emailing me gleefully all morning. apparently the local papers are just full of mocking. good for them!

    @daveNYC:
    umm. apparently not! because Maradona is a genius and the loss cannot be in any way due to anything he did.

  208. 208.

    IM

    Report from the streets: there is a certain irrational exuberance in my hometown and a lot of flag waving. I can only imagine waht happens right now in larger german cities.

    But then if you can’t have a little exuberance after a 4:0 win against Argentine, what do you wait for 6:0 against Brasil?

    I think we will play a finale against the Netherlands.

    By the way, what ever happened to the dominance of latin america?

  209. 209.

    Alex S.

    That puts Germany’s 1-0 against Ghana into perspective. Ghana was a really good team. Too bad about the missed penalties. But Germany’s performance against Serbia remains the exception.

  210. 210.

    SRW1

    @Randinho:

    Pretty bizarre by Suarez if there’s any truth to this. If there was the faintest chance for himto play again at the WC, which I wouldn’t have invested a cent on, Suarez himself has now made doubly sure that isn’t gonna happen. Probably couldn’t help it, was a testosterone surge.

  211. 211.

    Corner Stone

    Not to bleg or anything, but howz bout a new FP post with something controversial we can argue with each other over til the next boring football game?
    I’m easy. I’ll take Apple v Windows, Marlowe v Shakespeare, Garfield v Dilbert, any Greenwald or FDL post, or anything pop culture related.

    I’m waiting for houseguests who are late in arrival and I got nothing til then.

  212. 212.

    Violet

    @Calouste:
    Oops. I knew one of them didn’t lose while wearing white. I thought England was in white, but I misremembered. I think Uruguay was wearing some white in their group of 16 game too. It’s obviously just random, but it’s kind of weird how often it seems to be falling that way. I guess we’ll see with the next match.

  213. 213.

    JenJen

    Just back from a raucous pub viewing of Germany’s can of whoop-ass. Wooohoooo!!

    Who says Germans aren’t funny? Click here and turn your speakers up a little. :-)

  214. 214.

    Morfydd

    @IM: Hamburg is in a certain amount of hysteria, especially as apparently all the subs were from HSV and played well.

    I’ll just note that (stereotypically repressed) northern Germans are greeting each other with vuvuzela blasts. Even more amazingly, I find this charming rather than irritating.

  215. 215.

    KG

    I’m rooting for the guays the rest of the way. Mainly because I like to say Uruguay and Paraguay.

  216. 216.

    JenJen

    @Morfydd: I used to live in Flensburg, and traveled down to Hamburg every chance I could get. It makes me so happy to learn that my beloved, reserved northerners are letting loose a bit at this stellar victory. Thanks for your report!!

    Ich bin so stolz!! Unfassbar!! HALBFINALE!

  219. 219.

    Therese

    @ JenJen

    Are you in Cinti? Any recs for where to watch future WC games?

    Just realized my 4 yr old daughter’s soccer class is Weds at 1. Feeling terrible for her (excellent) instructor who is going to want to be watching the Germany match but will be stuck herding 4 year olds. Poor guy. At least he’ll see the end.

  220. 220.

    JenJen

    @Therese: Hi Therese! Yes, I’m in Cincy, and for me, the place to watch the matches is Molly Malone’s in Covington, over the river. If you don’t mind an asses-to-elbows packed bar with screaming, kit-wearing futbol fans, that is. It’s so exciting, you almost feel like you’re in South Africa. Deutschland fans outnumbered Argentina fans about 3:1 this morning, biggest fan-advantage I’ve seen since Team USA played Ghana, but, you’ll have that in Zinzinnati! I had an absolute blast.

    I really, really think the coach should reschedule your daughter’s soccer class, don’t you? :-)

  221. 221.

    Therese

    @JenJen: Thanks for the tip. Might get a babysitter for the final so hubbie and I can watch in peace. Though I bet Molly’s will be packed to the gills. Wednesday we’ll probably head straight to BW3s after the soccer class. Maybe the instructor will join us–lol. I’m sure he wants to watch a big match with 4 kids and a middle-aged mom.

  223. 223.

    Morzer

    Diego Maradona, Eva Peron, General Galtieri and er.. Diego Maradona.. your boys took one hell of a beating!

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