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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Netherlands v Uruguay Open Thread

Reader Interactions

235Comments

  2. 2.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    Uruguay is an island? River on the west, north and east and ocean to the south?

  5. 5.

    Mark S.

    I wouldn’t have guessed that Montevideo is the southernmost capital in South America, but I doubt that was what you were looking for.

  6. 6.

    Alex

    I’ll bite: Uruguay is the only strictly temperate South American country. It doesn’t extend into the tropics.

  7. 7.

    handsmile

    I prefer not to be too bloody-minded on these matters, but I’m going all Peckinpah wanting the head of Uruguay in this match.

    While Marco Materazzi awaits to crown his successor as World Cup Villain, the leading candidate must be Luis Suarez for his self-proclaimed “Hand of God” against Ghana. Debate will linger whether Suarez’s action was instinctual pragmatism or contemptible cheating, but his post-match boasting and the aggrieved remonstrances of coach Oscar Tabarez that reactions decrying the incident were “shameful” and “embarrassing,” inflame my yearning for retribution.

    Of course, some small measure of justice has already been meted out with Suarez’s red-card absence. His likely replacements (Cavani or Abreu) are decidedly inferior strikers which will permit the Dutch defensive corps to immobilize Forlan. On the other side of the ball, Holland’s manifold offense should proved too patient and efficient for a Uruguayan defense stripped of half its first-choice back line (Lugano and Fucile) due to injury and suspension. Thus, without Suarez to lend a hand, as it were, Uruguay will compete for fourth place come Saturday.

    In a detailed post on an earlier thread, DavidB cautioned against Dutch complacency and overconfidence: “they [may] lose, not because of less skill, but because of psychology.”
    As a member in good standing with the International Association of Amateur Sports Psychologists, I see little evidence of that immoderate trait in the current Netherlands’ squad. Accounts I’ve read, even skeptical ones, attest to the unprecedented comity within the team. (There was a brief kerfuffle between van Persie and Sneijder, but did you see how pal-sy they were, walking off arms over shoulders, at the end of the Brazil match?)

    Had Uruguay’s offense been at full-strength, Holland might have sprung a leak with the suspension of midfielder Nigel de Jong. He has enjoyed an intrepid, self-possessed tournament, belying his reputation as badder cop to van Bommel’s bad cop.

    Today’s appetizer of choice will be decorative bowls of Oranje. The banquet awaits tomorrow.

  10. 10.

    sublime33

    It is the only South American country completely south of the Tropic of Capricorn

  12. 12.

    LT

    I was going to also say something about no areas over _____ feet. But I had no idea what number to put in.

  16. 16.

    alex

    I was going to go with Leeds Man, but I think French Guiana is similarly flat.
    So- all south of the Tropics, then

  18. 18.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    It’s the only country that allows you to use your hands south of the goal box.

    Easy.

  19. 19.

    wengler

    Only that contemptible handball and the postgame celebration of it could make me say this:

    Go Dutchmen!

  21. 21.

    Some immigrant guy

    what geographic fact makes Uruguay unique among South American Countries?

    Who cares? They got 3 U’s in their name, doesn’t that make them special enough?

    Ps. They’ll lose tonight. Dutch are too good.

  22. 22.

    licensed to kill time

    It’s the only country shaped exactly like a llama’s head!

    Oh wait, that’s Peru…..never mind. /E.Litella

  25. 25.

    thomas

    Bolivia is also land locked – like Paraguay. I’m going with outside tropics.

  26. 26.

    J.W. Hamner

    @handsmile:

    Hmmm… I didn’t realize he was bragging about the hand ball. I was going to half root for them ‘cuz I kind of like Forlan, but you’ve convinced me to go the other way.

  27. 27.

    ricky

    It put Maggie Thatcher on its coinage and called the damn islands the Falklands. Then they announced it was because they were looking out for the best interests of the sheep.

  29. 29.

    Leeds man

    @alex:

    Looked it up; French Guiana has a 800+m mountain. Uruguay’s highest point is 514m.

    I’m not letting this go without a fight, Randy. It’s all I have left :)

  30. 30.

    licensed to kill time

    Maybe I was close with the shape thing after all…Uruguay is known as the “heart-shaped country” ?

  34. 34.

    Jason

    I know that Homer pronounces it You-are-gay and it is to the west of Rand McNally.

  36. 36.

    alex

    Oy, look at a map, Uruguay is about as landlocked as France. Uruguay is not Bolivia or Paraguay, and it never had a war with England over the Falklands because it’s over a thousand miles away and not called Argentina.

  37. 37.

    Napoleon

    @Randy Paul:

    “PS, on a map I looked at the capitals of Chile, Argentina and Uruguay visually appear to be all on the same longitute, which means each of them is almost certainly south of South Africa, and south of almost all of Australia.”

    So Buenos Aires is just barely south of Uruguay’s.

  38. 38.

    Bootlegger

    Hand of god or no, Uruguay did what they needed to get here and as their coach pointed out they have zero yellow cards through this point in the tournament.

    But I’m for Holland. I partied with that mob in Germany before they played Argentina and you just cannot be in that scene without getting infected. And boy are they generous when it comes to buying you beer for wearing an orange shirt.
    When the time came to board the trains for Frankfort stadium my wife, brother and our friend stepped on and it filled up quickly, and kept filling up, and kept filling up, until you were literally pressed tightly against every person around you, which got a little weird with the neighbor you were facing. In my case it was balding 20-something, over 2 meters tall and as soon as we started rolling he started belting out Dutch songs. There were a few other Americans and Germans in our press of the crowd and after a couple of rounds of singing the Oranje took it upon themselves to teach us their songs so everyone could sing. As we were unloading I noticed some short Argentineans packed into the corner looking like they just survived a frat hazing. Unless they are playing the US I cannot go against the Dutch ever again.

  45. 45.

    J.W. Hamner

    @MattR:

    I dunno seems like pretty poor sportsmanship to be proud of cheating… though I suppose it’s not his fault that the rules make that the sensible play.

  46. 46.

    Napoleon

    @Randy Paul:

    I don’t know if this information even exist let alone this is what you are looking for but it is possible it is the non-island country with the southern most center of population.

  47. 47.

    Bootlegger

    @J.W. Hamner: I don’t know if you saw the Dutch kid in the crowd holding the “Hand of the Devil” sign with a picture of Suarez with red horns and beard markered in.

  51. 51.

    HumboldtBlue

    Uruguay is going to struggle to score… Ian Black on Suarez … “he did nothing no other professional footballer would have done”

  52. 52.

    And Another Thing...

    It’s national anthem sounds like it was ripped from an opera. Doesn’t seem too “singable.”

    p.s. an awful lot of violins for a national anthem.

  53. 53.

    wengler

    Looks like Uruguay is going to defend and try its hand at shots from the center-line. The US could’ve beat these fools.

    Maybe.

  57. 57.

    ColeDBiers

    Looks like a good game.
    Never realized Syracuse and the NC Tarheels were such soccer powerhouses

  59. 59.

    salacious crumb

    Go Uruguay! if only because I wanna see the smirk wiped off the Dutch’s face.

  60. 60.

    HumboldtBlue

    4 years ago, round of 16 Holland v Portugal … 16 yellow cards, four red

  63. 63.

    Andy K

    @Punchy:

    Yes, and teh Uru-Guays will, as usual, go way OTT, teh Para-Guays will be wearing sensible shoes, and teh Trans-Oceanics will be overlooked- as they always are.

  64. 64.

    HumboldtBlue

    Sheesh, Uruguay has 37 men back … gonna be tough for the Dutch to score as well.

  67. 67.

    Bootlegger

    @wengler: They will play two lines of 4 and try to keep them close so there is no space for Schneider. Zonal Marking also thinks the two back lines will be narrow and they ‘ll invite the Dutch into the corners. Robben, on the right, likes to cut back inside so this isn’t a bad idea.

  68. 68.

    Napoleon

    @Randy Paul:

    Yep New Z is considered an island, so one of those

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand

    Buenos Aires must be the southern most capital of a non-island nation since Australia’s capital, though in the south is still barely north of Buenos Aires.

    By the way, the official name is Oriental Republic of Uruguay!!

    (PS, I did a book report on Bolivia when I was in grade school I still have – I have always loved geography and maps).

  81. 81.

    Napoleon

    @Adam C:

    Your right – I was thinking that numbers got smaller as you get closer to the poles but it is the opposite.

  83. 83.

    And Another Thing...

    Plus I want a dollar for every time John Harkes says “confidence.” sheesh.

  86. 86.

    Bootlegger

    @wengler: Their midfield line will need to but they are playing with two defensive mids (halfbacks) so it will probably have to be the wingers and fullbacks who try to get forward.

  87. 87.

    HumboldtBlue

    Uruguay was gonna make them work for everything in close, that blast was out of this world and now Uruguay can’t sit back

  88. 88.

    Napoleon

    @Bootlegger:

    Per Wiki:

    Translated into English, República Oriental del Uruguay becomes Oriental Republic of Uruguay. The Oriental Republic of Uruguay is named after its geographic location to the east of the Uruguay River. The word Uruguay, coming from the Guaraní language, means “river where the painted birds live”.[8] Since the word “orient” is derived from the Latin word oriens, meaning east, this caused the Uruguayans to be called “orientals”, even though Uruguay is situated in the Western Hemisphere.

  91. 91.

    Napoleon

    By the way I just noticed Wiki also says:

    Montevideo is the southernmost capital in the Americas.

  92. 92.

    Alex S.

    Hmm… I think we’ll find out that Uruguay only got into this semi-final with a lot of luck.

  93. 93.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    @You Don’t Say:

    Alexi defended it too. I’m a novice fan, but I find their logic unconvincing.

    As a great man once said, “If you ain’t first, you’re last.”

  94. 94.

    HumboldtBlue

    Their midfield line will need to but they are playing with two defensive mids (halfbacks) so it will probably have to be the wingers and fullbacks who try to get forward.

    Ian just stated that the4y have no wing threat and the Dutch will allow them to funnel into the middle all day

  97. 97.

    Bootlegger

    @Napoleon: So all the rednecks in Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and the rest of the southeast are actually orientals. Sweet.

  98. 98.

    MattR

    That’s gonna leave a mark

    Was that goal the shot of the tournament?

    @KCinDC: If you want unusual words, find one that has all five vowels and ‘y’ in it in alphabetical order.

  100. 100.

    Bootlegger

    @HumboldtBlue: Exactly, this was the ‘Guay’s game plan coming in. But if they want to crank up the O they will have to bring their wings and backs up. They will find nothing in the middle of the field for two lone strikers, not with the Dutch playing two halfbacks (behind four attacking players).

  102. 102.

    Bootlegger

    @MattR: Not to be all America Rules, but I still think Donovan’s roofer that made the goalie *duck* is the goal of the tourney. Not to take anything away from this goal, excellent skill, but how often do you see the goalie flinch.

  109. 109.

    Andy K

    @MattR:

    Was that goal the shot of the tournament?

    IMO, yeah. Goal of the tournament so far.

    Much to be said for Donovan’s goal against Slovenia, too. It didn’t rate high on the beauty scale, but it was waaay up there on the balls* scale. Don’t let anyone tell you different.

    *Up until a year and a half ago, the only time I can imagine using “balls” and “Donovan” in the same sentence would be while describing his pre-free kick ritual (“Donovan took three minutes straightening his shirt and picking his balls before launching over the goal.”), or his play in crunch time (“Donovan sucks balls!”).

  110. 110.

    Bootlegger

    @stuckinred: Nothin’ like that in central KY, though the place down the street advertises “home cookin'” on their sign.

  117. 117.

    Bootlegger

    Unbelievable how much space he had there. Where were the two Dutch halfbacks? Walking down the field? And the goalie should have done better.

  118. 118.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    Wow. Uhm, okay Uruguay is the country whose goals are closer to the field than they appear.

    Yikes. Two lonng goals.

    The French announcers keep calling a tackle an “intervention”. I realize of course that it’s simply the word for it but I always imagine it as “Look, we all got together, and uh, we think you should give me that ball. (snag) Kay thanks, bye”

  119. 119.

    HumboldtBlue

    I was outside the office during that goal standing in the parking lot when all I heard was a loud “gggooooooooooaaaaallllll” from one of the neighbors houses

  120. 120.

    MattR

    @Bootlegger: That was a good one too though I don’t think the shot itself took quite as much skill. I was also trying to differentiate between shot versus goal. I think David Villa has the goal of the tourney. And Donovan’s goal may end up in the top three for both categories.

    And now I think we need to give a special award to Forlan as shooter of the tournament for his combined effort all tourney long.

  122. 122.

    Bootlegger

    I should point out that the ‘Guays are getting their right back up the flank and he’s giving them numbers on that side, which is where the goal started and where this free kick came from.

  123. 123.

    GR

    Diego Forlan is just pure class. Why can’t the U.S. produce a forward with close to that kind of finishing ability? It’s not like Forlan is an athletic freak of nature.

  124. 124.

    HumboldtBlue

    Goalie made a quick step to his right while being screened by one of his backs and then the shot curled just enough to get past him. Hockey goal, that was.

  128. 128.

    Andy K

    Dammit! Forlan killed my prediction that it would end up 2-0 in favor of the Dutch. Stupid handsome guy…..

  131. 131.

    MattR

    @Bootlegger: It seems like Dempsey and Donovan both find themselves out wide way too often. I can’t remember either of them having the ball in a position to take either of those shots. (EDIT: I missed that you had linked a second video too. And it probably says something that you both picked the same one)

    @Matt: Well done. I was just wondering if it was time to provide an answer.

    @Andy K: I’ve got it 2-1 for Holland (and then 3-2 Spain over Germany)

    (EDIT: And for another random fact, the odds of Giovanni Van Bronckhorst scoring the first goal were 25 to 1)

  132. 132.

    cmorenc

    @Randhino

    what geographic fact makes Uruguay unique among South American Countries?

    A: They’re the only South American country of which Diego Forlan is a citizen and can play for.

    That’s the most valuable unique geographic fact about Uruguay at the moment. But also, Uruguay is the only entirely landlocked SA country, without so much as an inch of oceanic coastline.

  134. 134.

    cmorenc

    OK so I’m wrong about being the only landlocked country (Bolivia). But they are the only SA country with Diego Forlan, which is doing more good right now for Uruguay than Kaka is at the moment for Brazil, Tevez for Argentina, etc.

  135. 135.

    Andy K

    @MattR:

    I hadn’t made a prediction on Spain-Germany yet, but I was going to go on record with the same prediction before it started. Germany is going to miss Muller(sp?), and it will throw their game off.

  137. 137.

    Andy K

    @cmorenc:

    Wrong. Uruguay is on the Atlantic. The Graf Spee tried to enter the port at Montevideo near the beginning of WWII when cornered by a British task force, but ended up scuttled in the mouth of the River Plate.

  138. 138.

    MattR

    @Randy Paul: Growing up, there was a store with a sign in the window that read “High Prices Paid For Old Orientals”. Granted, it was a carpet store, but it was always hilarious at first glance.

  139. 139.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    @Bootlegger:

    Oops, didn’t notice the hyperlink.

    You do realize that once the U.S. starts banging in golazos the rest of the world will conspire to wipe us off the map? Once U.S. hegemony extends to soccer, it’s all over.

  140. 140.

    Bootlegger

    @MattR: Dempsey launched lots of balls this round but he was never able to get any on frame. Donovan, IMO, should try it more often.

  142. 142.

    Bootlegger

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Unless they are all whipping us at baseball and basketball by that point. Since we haven’t won many basketball or baseball world titles in the last decade we’re well on our way.

  143. 143.

    HumboldtBlue

    Dutch aren’t going to be able to get away with unforced errors like that…

  145. 145.

    MattR

    @Bootlegger: I will take your word for that, though I wonder how many of them were after he was moved up to forward later in matches.

    As for basketball, it really is a strange creature. I don’t think there is much dispute that the United States is the dominant country in the world when it comes to the sport. But because we play with different rules than the rest of the world (among other reasons), we have had trouble at recent international tournaments as the gap with the rest of the world has closed.

    (EDIT: Hey, Robben went to his right, kinda.)

  146. 146.

    Bootlegger

    @stuckinred: World Baseball Classic=no championships, Japan both times. World Basketball Championships (FIBA)=no final since 1994. Olympic Basketball has our only success in the last decade, two golds in three tries.

  148. 148.

    Andy K

    @Randy Paul:

    That’s probably not the origin of the term, Randinho.

    Rednecks were Scots Lowland, Low Church Presbyters who distinguished themselves from High Church folk by wearing red kerchiefs around their necks. Many of them helped conquer Ireland and settle Ulster, then their descendents ended up settling in the American South.

  149. 149.

    stuckinred

    @Bootlegger: Come on dawg, you don’t really consider those rinkey-dink things world titles? Nah, you’re just kidding around.

  150. 150.

    Matt

    Pardon me if this has been answered elsewhere, but what would the South Africans think if Holland (source of the Afrikaners) wins?

  152. 152.

    Randy Paul

    @Andy K: Well, I grew up in that part of the country (primarily Alabama & Florida with some time in Georgia & Tennessee) and that’s what my family was always told it came from.

  155. 155.

    Punchy

    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAALLLLLL!

    (that never gets old)

    Holy crap!

    GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL! AGAIN!

  157. 157.

    HumboldtBlue

    Too much Dutch pressure …. you could almost say they put the uruguay defense into a Dutch oven. And if that can be called offside as said by Ian, why even bother playing the fucking game anymore. There is no more useless rule in any sport, one missed more often and that has major impact in every match then offside.

  159. 159.

    Moonbatting Average

    They’re talking possible offsides, but it’s not even clear to me that the Dutch player touched the ball as it went past

  160. 160.

    MattR

    Tough call to make. Personally, I thought Van Perise was trying to get his leg out of the way of the ball. But then again, I also hate how tightly they call offsides in the first place. And I predicted a 2-1 Dutch victory.

  161. 161.

    Bootlegger

    @MattR: It’s not just the rules but also the teamwork of other national teams. Our pro game is so 1v1, 2v2 pick-n-roll, and fastbreak oriented we struggle against a team that slows the tempo down and effectively uses all 5 players.

    Dempsey and Donovan “pinch inside” in the US scheme and the fullbacks move up the flanks. You saw Cherundolo and Bornstein on the flanks way more than Dempsey or Donovan.
    Zonal Marking explains it better than me.

  162. 162.

    Andy K

    @Randy Paul:

    It seems to have evolved the way you learned it, but the term pre-dates American colonization amongst the ancestors of those who settled in Dixie.

  171. 171.

    HumboldtBlue

    Oh to be in Amsterdam … and no Ian, that second goal is in no way debateable.

  172. 172.

    Bootlegger

    @stuckinred: Yeah, you’re right, if we’re not winning it then it must not be a world title, even if the whole world is competing and we send our pros.

    Looked like van Persie was offside on that goal. Waiting for replay. No, good call.

  173. 173.

    cmorenc

    2nd Holland goal should have been cancelled for offside. The Dutch player in an offside position lifted his foot to avoid making contact with the shot, but he nonetheless “interfered with an opponent”, i.e. the Uruguanian goalkeeper, by standing astride the GK’s line of vision on the shot’s trajectory along the ground.

    Holland arguably made the AR/Referee’s mistake moot by scoring that third goal, but OTOH 2-1 isn’t the hill to climb to get back in that 3-1 is with only 20:00 or so left.

  175. 175.

    Face

    Looks like Germany rolls into the Netherlands for a all-Yurrup final….

    Yep, I said it.

  177. 177.

    Andy K

    @Bootlegger:

    Yeah, I got that. Just pointing out the origins.

    BTW, I’m blue collar, and I never, ever associated with the term. The furthest south any of my roots spread is to Allegan County, Michigan, and those ancestors were Ottawa. I’ve got Pomeranian-German, Quebecoise-French, Northern English and County Mayo Irish in me, and I burn fairly easily, but never related to the term.

  178. 178.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    I picked the Netherlands in our World Cup pool.

    Come on boys, Rusty needs a new pair of shoes!

  179. 179.

    Bootlegger

    All 3 goals for the Dutch started wide then came into the middle. Some teams are not good at wide play, the Dutch are experts at it and its strange that Uruguay decided to let them have all that space. Of course the Dutch are also pretty good coming right down the middle with short passes and they can also play long balls over the top so I guess its pick-your-poison.

  180. 180.

    cmorenc

    Uruguay losing is appropriate karma for the egregiously unsporting way they prevented a sure Ghana goal with a flagrantly deliberate handling by Suarez to keep the ball from going into the goal.

    The magnificence of Diego Forlan is almost enough to make up for that egregiously bad bit of karma by his mate, but not enough IMHO.

    The Dutch deserve a shot at a WC title, and that adds to the just karma going on – the mistake on the offside by the AR/Referee on the 2nd Dutch goal helped mightily to even out the karma department on Suarez’s deliberate handling, without which Uruguay wouldn’t be in the semifinal.

  183. 183.

    cmorenc

    @Face
    WHAT game were you watching? The player who struck the ball on-and-into goal was certainly not offside – it was a Dutch player in an offside position along the flight line of the ball who was the critical player – he successfully lifted his foot in time to allow the ball to run under him untouched, but in doing so was standing directly astride the line of the ball for the goalkeeper’s vision. That IS an offside violation “interfering with an opponent”. (I’ve refereed competitive soccer for 14 years).

  191. 191.

    Tractarian

    @handsmile:

    While Marco Materazzi awaits to crown his successor as World Cup Villain, the leading candidate must be Luis Suarez for his self-proclaimed “Hand of God” against Ghana.

    Yeah, Materazzi, what a dick. First, he scores a goal in the World Cup final. Then, he gets the other team’s captain to lose his temper, headbutt him and get sent off! Villainous!

  192. 192.

    SRW1

    @cmorenc:

    My recollection is that a player is not offside if the ball is last played by a player of the opponent’s team. Since you claim to have been a ref you should now that for sure. But if that is correct, then the 2nd goal for Holland was not offside because the ball was last touched, and slightly deflected, by an Uruguay defender before van Persie lifted his foot.

  193. 193.

    Andy K

    Hup, Holland, hup!

    Time to go do blue collar stuff. Looking forward to your thoughts on the game later on, Randinho.

  195. 195.

    Face

    it was a Dutch player in an offside position

    ESPN has been showing the replay over and over and over. At the time of the ball strike, the Dutch player was NOT behind the last defender; he was aside him. Ergo, no offsides. Unless they’ve changed the definition of offsides.

  198. 198.

    Bootlegger

    @Face: That’s how I saw it too. At the time the ball was played he was even, when he lifted his foot he was off, but that is not offside.

  201. 201.

    Randy Paul

    @Bootlegger: If his foot is offside, he’s offside:

    In the context of Law 11 – Offside, the following definitions apply: “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of a player’s head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition

    That being said, the ball also came off of a defender and that may have nullified the offside.

  203. 203.

    Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)

    Luis “Hand of God II” Suarez gets the cosmic finger. Yay Netherlands.

  204. 204.

    Anya

    Fuck, I missed the game because I was doing training. Who the fuck schedules a training in July?

  205. 205.

    wengler

    I don’t know why there has been so much discussion on that second goal. Van Piersie was both active and onside within a reasonable doubt. US-Algeria disallowed goal aside, the attacking player gets the benefit of the doubt on any offsides call and the place of VP’s foot was inconsequential.

  206. 206.

    Randinho

    @wengler: If his foot was offside, he was offside. It was close in any event. It’s also risible for Uruguay to be complaining. At least Van Persie didn’t grab the ball and heave it into the goal . . .

  207. 207.

    bjacques

    Fpfp…thpft…ffff…fwooOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

    Too damn close. Holland almost pissed it away.

    I think I’ve gone native.. I should be howling with joy, in the street, or lighting fireworks and scariong the neighbors, like our neighbor did.

  211. 211.

    HumboldtBlue

    For real Randinho? What Suarez did was no worse than what the referees have done to this World Cup. There is no standard visible, calls go unexplained, phantom calls reversed how many goals in the tourney, and you’re still complaining about a guy making a desperate play to keep his team in the game? Maybe you should take up tennis or something.

    You’ve got legions of players flopping, diving and doing their damndest to sway a refs call, but Suarez is the villain. What a load of Jonah Goldberg.

  212. 212.

    Pixie

    ^BS.

    The players don’t have control over the BS officiating, but they do have control over their own actions. Flopping,diving, sliding is crappy playing, but it didn’t directly affect the course of the game like that handball (blatant cheating). The refs. did a pretty good job in this game. The didn’t let the Dutch get away with their dives and basically told them to get the f*ck up or just ignored it altogether. Suarez is the villian and the way they were celebrating afterwords just made me cheer for the Dutch that much harder.

  213. 213.

    CJ

    Can we stop calling it cheating? He did not circumvent the rules, he played within them. He knew what would happen if he used his hands and did so in a calculated decision.

    Unsportsmanlike? Maybe. Cheating? Not by the rules.

  215. 215.

    Pixie

    Yes it was cheating. By that same logic I can go out and kill someone and know I’ll go to prison for my crime. After I get out, can I say I never committed a crime because I served my time knew what would happened if I got caught?

  216. 216.

    You Don't Say

    @valdivia: My inclination is to root for Germany, but someone just told me Spain has never won. So … it’s a quandary.

  218. 218.

    HumboldtBlue

    . Flopping,diving, sliding is crappy playing, but it didn’t directly affect the course of the game like that handball (blatant cheating).

    Tell that to Mueller of Germany who won’t play in tomorrow’s game because of a lovely flop by an opponent and yet another horrid call by a WC referee.

    Suarez did exactly what he intended to do, keep the ball out of the net. The penalty for doing so was immediate and as severe as it gets in soccer, a penalty kick. That it was missed by Gyan (so, so sorry my brave Ghanian friend, you and the team deserved better) was heart-breaking.

    I went over your cheating silliness last week, he committed a foul and he was penalized for it. he didn’t cheat, he committed a foul that should have cost his team a game, but it turned out differently. Again, going offside is not cheating, it’s a foul. Stomping onto an opponent’s ankle during the run of play is a foul, not cheating. It was a last-ditch desperate gamble and that’s why he watched from the sidelines today.

  220. 220.

    Leeds man

    @CJ:

    Agreed. Cheating implies deception. Batting a ball away with your arms is not deception, it’s desperation. He did what almost every player on the planet would have done, if he couldn’t get head, chest or feet to the ball. And it wouldn’t have been done with evil intent – he didn’t have the time to construct intent.

  222. 222.

    Frank

    @Pixie:

    Yes it was cheating. By that same logic I can go out and kill someone and know I’ll go to prison for my crime. After I get out, can I say I never committed a crime because I served my time knew what would happened if I got caught?

    Cheating or not, what he did was no different than a player who trips another player, it was no different than a player who is caught being offside etc etc. Heck, it was no different than fouling somebody in basketball.

    It is all part of the game. All these examples result in penalties. This is why Suarez got a red card.

  223. 223.

    rec

    I’m really tired of all the talk about flopping. If it’s a case of an obvious dive it’s one thing, but sometimes (like Kuyt towards the end) the other player kicked his shin. Unless you are the player you have no idea how much it actually hurts. Maybe it didn’t, but maybe it did.

    Even the case with Robben, there seemed to be some testicular contact there. And van Bommel after his tackle from behind — there was nothing obvious in the tackle, but he clearly hurt himself.

    It’s easy sitting miles away and saying it’s all fake, but a lot of times even a little contact can go a long way.

  224. 224.

    frankdawg

    @Leeds man:
    Now if he took steroids & hit 714 home runs (or 71 in a season) THAT would be cheating. But what he did was more like trapping a fly ball – against the rules & the umps would call it no catch.

  226. 226.

    Bill Murray

    @CJ: How did he not circumvent the rules — the rules say only the goalkeeper is allowed to use their hands and only within the 18 yard box. That there are penalties for this type of circumvention is acknowledgment that some people will try to circumvent the rules, not that the offense is not against the rules.

  227. 227.

    cmorenc

    @SRW1

    My recollection is that a player is not offside if the ball is last played by a player of the opponent’s team. Since you claim to have been a ref you should now that for sure. But if that is correct, then the 2nd goal for Holland was not offside because the ball was last touched, and slightly deflected, by an Uruguay defender before van Persie lifted his foot.

    For a defender’s touch to reset the offside, it must be “played”, meaning in this context not just an uncontrolled deflection, but a ball that the defender is either able to play with control (perhaps with unwise or risky consequences) or else the ball is one that should be readily controllable by players at that skill level, but the player simply technically fluffs it. It does not include even a deliberate effort by a defender to play a ball that, by virtue of distance, speed, trajectory, etc is very difficult to deflect with any control over direction, weight, trajectory, etc.

    Played is nearly synonymous with “controlled or should be controlled” in this context.

  234. 234.

    Kelly

    @Randinho: Mueller’s first yellow was kinda dubious as well (I’m no expert, but he looked to be going for the ball – absolutely a foul, but not card-worthy). And it definitely involved some impressive rolling around on the ground on the part of the Ghanian player involved, who I’m sure subsequently lost that leg.

  235. 235.

    Gian

    @rec:

    we’re mostly americans, the peeps who know Ronnie Lott hacked off part of a finger to return to a game, if a hit doesn’t bring a Joe Theisman-like compound fracture, we expect people to pop up and tough it out.

    and – that – not being the point

    I think the floppers (and you can see people in slow-mo just lose their balance) do themselves poorly because it should make the other players percieve weakness. If you’re playing a world class event, and the other side has to fake injury to get help?

    Well, if it was hockey you’d likely deliver a real injury.

    and if you commit the foul, knowing it’s a foul, and knowing it’ll get called, well, in the USA for a decade it was called the “Hack a Shaq” defense

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