I’m dying here. Apparently Kos has been blacklisted at MSNBC because he hurt Joe Scar’s fee-fees on twitter.
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
A Senator Walker would be an insult to the state and the nation.
Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?
Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.
They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.
Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?
You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact
Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.
When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.
We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.
Black Jesus loves a paper trail.
You can’t love your country only when you win.
I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.
The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.
Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.
Damn right I heard that as a threat.
A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals
Republicans in disarray!
If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.
A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires
When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.
Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.
But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.
You are here: Home / Heathers
Corner Stone
Sestak scandal…Sestak scandal…drawing a blank. Can someone remind me what that one was about again?
Corner Stone
Civil.
The president of MSNBC just gave Markos a timeout.
Hunter Gathers
@Corner Stone:
I think it had something to do with the WH offering Sestak a non-paying gig to step aside in the primary against Spector. Which is 100 billion times worse than a dead intern in your office.
Hunter Gathers
@Corner Stone:
That is fucking hilarious coming from somebody who writes checks to Patrick Fucking Buchanan.
The Moar You Know
Joe had a dead intern in his office and to this day can’t explain how she got there.
I fail to see the problem with anything Markos said.
Remember November
Pres of MSNBC is a nutless nutsack.
Redshirt
It would be irresponsible not to speculate, after all.
DougJ
@Redshirt:
Damn straight.
Corner Stone
@Hunter Gathers:
For some reason I had a vague recollection that Admiral Sestak was leading a highly trained force of Firebaggers and they were coming to kill us all.
Sounds kinda nonsensical now that I think about it.
beltane
Maybe CNN will take on Markos to balance out whatshisface from Redstate who is known to be a paragon of civility and good taste. Not that this will ever happen.
licensed to kill time
Bullies like Joey the Scar can dish it out but they can’t take it. And he had to go whine to the Principal, as it were.
NobodySpecial
Ladies and gentlemen, your liberal media.
Bill E Pilgrim
Oh yeah that’s good thinking because you know, they have Markos on those shows for his sake, it’s not because it makes good television or that people are interested in hearing what he has to say.
Much safer to just ban anyone your conservative blowhard throws a tantrum about, because it’s far more important to make sure that he never feels insulted than to have interesting programming, and you were just having him on as a favor to him anyway.
Next maybe you can ban all liberals because Mika is afraid that they make her look stupid.
The Moar You Know
Maybe Joe used the “dead intern delivery” service. I’m sure there is one, just like how they deliver bottled water to my office.
Strange that he won’t give out the name of the dead intern delivery company though. You’d think they’d comp him a freebie for that kind of publicity.
trollhattan
@NobodySpecial:
Beat me to it, ya did.
Hunter Gathers
@Corner Stone:
The only thing Firebaggers are good at are circular firing squads. And foraging for sacrifices to their Goddess, Hanoi Jane.
They are the new Judean People’s Front Crack Suicide Squad.
jacy
Feelings? I always thought Scarborough was a soulless mannequin.
Go figure.
DougJ
@The Moar You Know:
Did you notice a sign out in front of his house that said Dead Intern Storage?
Jules
So MSNBC is giving Markos a time out because Joey has little girl feelings BUT that racist Nazi lover Patrick J Buchannan is A OK to have on TV?
david mizner
An overall plus for progressives.
Let Kos focus on doing what he does best — which is what I’m not exactly sure — but it ain’t going on TV.
Pamela F
@Hunter Gathers: Hah!
Not only is it a friggin’ travesty, given Pat Buchanan, but Kos has been Wiegeled. Meaning that the MSM has different boundaries than bloggers.
leinie
@DougJ:
That was full of Epic Win.
Joe shoulda called The Wolf.
Redshirt
I really enjoyed Joey’s tears about Rachel Maddow. She seemed to win that little battle though.
He’s a wuss.
Hunter Gathers
@Pamela F: Got rid of my cable months ago, and I don’t miss it one bit. My dad sends me links to Olbermann segments that he knows will piss me off (like the immigration segment w/Fineman last night), but other than watching Maddow at her site, I’ve given up on the Cables.
Comrade Kevin
Scarborough, like all other bullies, is extremely thin-skinned.
Pancake
Boo Hoo. Poor little Kos baby. Banned. How sad. What a whining little shit.
Bill E Pilgrim
@david mizner: He’s a good blogger. His blog has become a sort of living enactment of the scenes from The Meaning Of Life about the Judean People’s Front, arguing obsessively about the blog protocols, but when he himself posts it’s often excellent stuff. Too bad in a way.
You know, that it can’t be more just a normal blog, like, well this one, no drama queen nut cases here. */* Polite awkward cough. */*
Kryptik
But remember folks, insinuate that torture is mandated by Catholic Dogma, call the standing Sec. of State a ‘Bitch’, insinuate that the President is a communist islamic illegal alien bent on being a wimpy dictator, and you’re just OK for news!
Call conservatives names, and you’re blackballed from ever being considered as ‘serious’.
handy
Can someone parse the first Tweet that allegedly started this all?
I’m struggling here. The media has been “negligent” on a laughable story. And that’s a bad thing?
Catsy
@david mizner:
Sad to say, this is the truth. I like Markos and what he’s done for the community, but I find him painful to listen to on TV. He has a really nasal, whiny voice, lets conservatives talk over him, and misses all manner of opportunities to refute conservative BS.
Professor
Do you remember that our own John Cole was ‘defriended’ by Joe Scarboro on this same subject? Joe has been a bit touchy on this intern issue.
Bill E Pilgrim
@handy: He’s calling the denial laughable.
In other words, whatever the trumped-up crock of idiocy was that people were being accused of, their saying that it was a crock of nonsense is laughable. In his mind.
geg6
@The Moar You Know:
Exactly.
Chyron HR
@Pancake:
You said it, Traitor Dave.
Mudge
This was a comment that needn’t have been made. Kos stated that it was “too much horseshit for me”. He suffers an unnecessary penalty for an unnecessary remark. Kos is not arguing the merit, or lack thereof, of Scarborough’s position, he lobs a direct personal insult at him. Perhaps Kos has never directly accused Scarborough of murder, but he has implied it in his typical self-righteous snotty way.
And why should any of us in blogreader land give a shit about it one way or another..Scarborough complains to his boss and Kos is banned..Kos complains to us and we’re supposed to do something? He’s no better than Scarborough by airing this laundry.
Dave
@Catsy:
Markos made Tom Tancredo run away. He gets a pass.
ReggieH
@leinie: Yes! I actually get that reference!
scav
As though not being on da TeeVee is going to be da big scarey dreaded threat to a blogger. mmmm.
handy
@Bill E Pilgrim:
In other words, he was tweeting out of his ass. Now it’s all clear.
One other thing though about Kos–dude, man up. Just what exactly would have been the point of bringing up the intern if you weren’t trying to make some connection with Scarborough? His spin on this–oh I never stated he committed murder where did I say that?!–is obvious and weak.
Hunter Gathers
@Professor:
The Scar had nothing to do with her death, but he was obviously fucking her at the time, ala Gary Condit.
El Cid
The name of the intern in Scarboy’s office who fell backwards into a desk hard enough to split her head open and this being certified by a medical examiner previously condemned for practicing medical fraud in autopsy examinations was Lori Klausutis.
Chandra Levy’s name everyone knew. The intern who was fatally bitten by a desk was mentioned maybe a couple of times.
Bas-O-Matic
@Professor:
Yeah, why so touchy about someone insinuating that you’re a murderer.
I’m sorry, but what Kos did was uncalled for. He said what he said to get under Scarborough’s skin. He succeeded. Feigning innocence when called on it is ridiculous.
Mnemosyne
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Ahem. Life of Brian, not The Meaning of Life.
As penance, you now have to listen to “The Universe Song.”
Mnemosyne
@Bas-O-Matic:
Hate to say it, but if you don’t want people speculating about you being a murderer, you probably shouldn’t leave unexplained dead bodies laying around in your office.
Not that I disagree with you entirely: Kos was trying to piss Scarborough off and he succeeded. No need to make Kos into a martyr for it.
slippy
@Hunter Gathers:
This.
Scarborough looks like a class-A flaming rectum trying to manufacture controversy when he himself is surrounded by controversy. Kos was making the clear connection that right-wing controversy seems to get shoveled under the mat while left-wing controversy goes on for YEARS. AND YEARS.
AND YEARS.
AND YEARS.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Mudge: Oh please, Scarborough sneers about some supposed scandal that he’s heard people gossiping about and thinks that everyone suspected of whatever it is should be hung out to dry in the media, in the meantime anyone mentions that Scarborough had a bit of an awkward situation (maybe just involving sex) that isn’t pursued — and he completely freaks and gets someone “banned” from appearances?
Utter hypocrisy, and Kos was right to point it out.
maus
Man, I hope this has a Streisand effect with the Twitternetverse blowing up over Morning Joe’s possible MURDERER rep. I didn’t even know about this until kos got banned.
When was the last time NBC freaked out this much? Oh yes, people hurting OJ Simpson’s fee fees :)
The Moar You Know
It would be grossly irresponsible not to speculate.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Mnemosyne: Oh right. Me of all people.
My mistake.
I shall now play “my mistake”….
MikeJ
Kos should have called him a goat fucking child molester.
asiangrrlMN
@Bas-O-Matic: And his point was that Gary Conduit got his name dragged through the mud for a similar episode and was pretty much banned from politics for life because he’s a Dem. As El Cid points out, everyone knows Chandra Levy’s name, but no one knows Lori Klausutis’s. Scarborough ended up with his own show and nobody even gives a shit about what happened with his intern.
@The Moar You Know: I agree with you. Was it personal? You bet. Had to be to really make his point.
fourlegsgood
Wow. Joey Scar sure is touchy. I called him a Newt accolyte on twitter a few months ago and he went ballistic.
What a WATB. seriously.
geg6
OT, but seriously, WTF?
http://www.startribune.com/politics/97822589.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ
My sister has worked as a manager/maitre ‘d in fine dining restaurants in three states and she tells me she has never known a singer server anywhere who makes $100,000.
Corner Stone
@Kryptik:
Don’t say “blowjob” either.
asiangrrlMN
@geg6: That’s just bullshit. This guy is making me the fuck angry. And, if the owner of that business IS paying his servers that much, then he’s an idiot, too. Unless he means a hundred thou total for the three of them. I could see that, barely. I’m not enthused about the Dem candidate, but it looks like it’s time to get out the vote, anyway.
P.S. It pisses me off that the reporter of the story just adds that quote about the hundred thou without double-checking it.
Chyron HR
@Bas-O-Matic:
Such a terrible cross to bear. Scar and O.J. should form a club
and kill a woman with it.Waynski
@geg6: They can in NYC, but not very many.
handy
@MikeJ:
Or maybe he should have just said what he was implying with a wink and a nudge before running off in the other direction when MSNBC canned him.
maus
@geg6:
He probably meant all of them combined.
flukebucket
I can’t imagine Joey with a woman.
It always seemed to me that he and Hannity would make the perfect couple.
CalD
First Keith. Now Joe? Where will it end?
(Yes, I’m kidding. I’ve been sworn off cable “news” going on two years now and I haven’t missed it once. I guess you could say that all those assholes are on my
shitummm, black list, long since.)thomas
@Pamela F:
time for a nother bloggers ethics pannel
DougJ
@maus:
Yes me too.
asiangrrlMN
@maus: That was my read, too, but when I actually looked at the link, it was unclear that any of them were saying that. If Emmer’s actually knew that’s what the business owner meant, then he (Emmer) is an even bigger asshole than he first appears. MN is not as expensive as, say, NYC (what is), but it’s not so cheap that thirty-three thou a year is mad-crazy monies.
Seebach
Kos is a smart cookie. He knows that this story only really hurts Scarborough. Nobody’s going to start hating Kos just because of this one tweet. But since Scarborough didn’t let it just roll off his back, more people are going to hear about the dead intern than ever.
Mnemosyne
@geg6:
So the claim is that this guy is paying his servers $6.15 an hour and somehow they’re getting $100,000 a year from it? What the hell kind of shifts are his servers working if they’re making $100,000 a year on $6.15 an hour? Or is he claiming that he pays his servers $50 an hour ’cause he’s just such a sweet guy?
And if he’s complaining about how much his servers make in tips, the guy needs to STFU right about now. That money is the servers’ money, not the restaurant’s money. He’s not losing a dime by the servers being tipped well.
The Moar You Know
She had a name, folks. Lori Klausutis.
And in my part of the country, if a dog kills someone, you take it out and shoot it. Why this hasn’t been done for Joe Scarborough’s killer desk, a desk that has obviously developed a lust for human blood, is beyond me.
WHY IS JOE COVERING UP FOR HIS MURDEROUS DESK?
geg6
@maus:
I don’t think he did. And to be very honest here, there are few who even make 1/3 of $100,000. My sister has been doing this for 35 years. Her best earning year was 1989, when she earned a grand total of $35,000. This year, she pulled in a massive $24,000. And she’s in demand, getting offers from restaurants all over the area (which she turns down because she has great benefits and works only a couple blocks from home). Plus she’s management, so makes more per hour than her servers.
She made even less when she lived in FL and VA. I think they paid her about $1.50/hr. in those states. Every penny she pulled in, almost, was from tips. Restaurant owners are whiny, cheap mother fuckers (and more so below the Mason Dixon line) and whatever the restaurant owner in the article says no one should believe. I guarantee you that he fucks over his help every chance he can.
PaulW
If Olbermann had any balls he’d publicly invite Kos to show up on his show.
eemom
Kos says:
It’s just an observation, but somehow I doubt that.
thomas
@flukebucket:
I think something just came-up in my mouth.
Scott
@geg6:
I went ahead and sent an e-mail to the restaurant owner just now, asking him if it was true that his servers pulled down $100K a year. And I CC’d the reporter, because she should’ve asked him the question in the first place.
NonyNony
@Mnemosyne:
Here’s a fact check follow-up report about that whole $100K servers story. The owner of the place is apparently an asshole. The real numbers look like the owner could pocket an extra $30K a year if they changed the law in Minnesota so that tipped workers had a lower minimum wage. Reading between the lines it looks like the owner made up the $100K quote and then was almost tarred and feathered by his wait staff who wanted to know who the guys making $100K were and why the fuck it wasn’t them.
It also sounds like the restaurant is fielding some outraged customers who are pissed that the owner is throwing in with a right-wing troglodyte running for governor and lying about how much his wait staff make. Small business owners need to be really, really damn careful when they make political statements – you need to know your clientele and know how they’re going to react to things.
Svensker
@Pancake:
Are you Pancake Rachel Corrie? Oh, I didn’t realize you had made such a clever name switch. Boy, that sure shows us all how clever you are. Why, you must have clever posts by the thousands to make us all hang our heads in shame because we not so clever. Why didn’t I think of mocking an idealist young American girl who was killed for her pains? Now that’s clever! And certainly makes me pay attention to all your clever points. Yes, indeed, I believe I have become a zionist warmonger asshole right on the spot due to your cleverness.
Chris G.
@handy: Say what you will about Nixon, but he didn’t throw Checkers under a bus. Perhaps Joe should be given a timeout of his own for suggesting that Nixon would throw Checkers under a bus.
handy
@PaulW:
KO is a company man. Not a chance.
@geg6:
If I’m a restaurant owner and I have a server pulling in $100,000 in tips, the last thing I’m doing is complaining. Just sayin’.
geg6
@eemom:
On what do you base your doubt? Kos says clearly in the diary that he is uncomfortable on tv and doesn’t really like doing it. He really does have real life relationships with Olbermann and Schultz. If they had said, Markos, you’ve gone too far here, I really doubt that Kos would take to the blog and decry their decisions the same way he’s doing for Joey Scar.
I’m really curious as to how you became a Democrat/liberal. Because I really have never seen you say anything nice about any other Democrats or liberals other than Obama and you are always sneering at truly essential people in current liberalism such as Markos.
I am no fan of the diaries at GOS and detest almost all the commenters, but I consider Markos a national treasure. A thousand times more than Olbermann or Schultz, that’s for sure.
Bill E Pilgrim
@geg6: Oh I knew waiters who made $50,000 twenty years ago. Not all waiters of course and mostly only in places like NY or LA (the ones i knew were in San Francisco) but some can definitely pull it in. Surprised the hell out of me. Happy surprise, since I lived with one of them.
Bas-O-Matic
@The Moar You Know:
Apparently my detailed reply is in moderation, but pretty much this. Levy was different than Klausutis because in the latter case there was no mystery what happened, no missing body, and (afaict) no allegations of an affair or lying about said affair.
asiangrrlMN
@NonyNony: Thanks for that follow up. Yeah, it had bullshit written all over it. I am so glad another reporter was hot on the tail. The initial reporter was a lazy piece of shit for not doing it herself.
Redshirt
I can’t wait to see if deadinterngate has any legs. You know this will bubble up to some degree, just because of threads like this.
An interesting science experiment, I suppose: We get to watch in real time how the media kills a legitimately controversial story, involving a Repuglican, of course.
Jilli
It’s awful funny that Patrick J. Buchanan, an avowed bigot and frequent guest on Morning Schmoe, isn’t found to be distasteful, but Kos is? Does that make any sense?
Morning Schmoe is actually better when Scarborough isn’t on, he’s like a whiny jr. high student. And his stories about 1994 get on my last nerve.
geg6
@NonyNony:
That is totally awesome. Love it. Glad to see that at least one reporter in MN knows how to do his job. Also good to see the good people there are telling that restaurant owner to go fuck himself.
Scott
@NonyNony:
That’s an outstanding column. Nice to see that someone was able to get the reporting done, even if the reporter gave it a pass…
geg6
@Bas-O-Matic:
This is patently untrue.
Mnemosyne
@NonyNony:
Ah, the long-term thinking of business owners:
Because, of course, if they cut their employees’ salaries in half, they’re all so loyal that they wouldn’t go out and find new jobs and leave the restaurant half-staffed.
General Stuck
This is the part I like, Phil Griffin to Kos.
They continue to appreciate that support by black balling the Daily Kos founder for something said not on MSNBC, but on Twitter. A pointed jab no doubt, but not unfair considering all the scandal mongering the wingnuts are famous for.
eemom
@geg6:
Wow. Holy self-righteous snide-ass, Batman. Have you ever actually READ any of my comments on this blog, including the many where I’ve agreed with you?
You know, before I got to that comment, I was going to say that you might well be right. By what I said originally, I only meant that all these people have huge egos, and I don’t think Kos is any exception. But evidently you know him better than I do — and you love him so much that you’re willing to be obnoxious to a longstanding fellow commenter who’s never been that way to you.
Stay classy, lady.
bago
100k a year in tips? Now THAT’s service.
Brachiator
@maus:
Then the candidate’s comment is even more stupid. Three servers making an average of $33,000 is not huge money. And if tips are voluntarily left by customers, how exactly is this forcing customers to pay more money than they should?
How about a law forcing restaurants to lower their prices? Wouldn’t this benefit customers and lower tips as well?
asiangrrlMN
@geg6: Yep. I was just going to link to my Google search (one of them) for Scarborough and Klausutis. I didn’t even know about this until I started following politics more closely, but of course, I had heard about the Conduit/Levy case as it happened.
Anyway, apparently there were many questions regarding her death and whether she was one of Scarborough’s dalliances that led to his divorce. So, it is a pretty similar case.
Mark S.
I knew one guy who pulled in around $50,000 being a waiter, but he worked at some ridiculously expensive steakhouse where the cheapest thing on the menu was like $100. 99.9% of servers don’t make anything near that.
eemom
And this in particular is absolute bullshit.
John from OH
@handy: Actually, what Kos was doing was again showing that the traditional media is blatantly conservative in that when Rep. Condit (D-CA) was investigated, accused (and acquitted) of murder, he lost his job and his career, but when a dead intern was found in Rep. Scarborough’s (R-FL) congressional office, there is no media, no follow up, no investigation, nothing.
Here is Kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/7/7/882214/-Why-I-am-blacklisted-by-MSNBC
and here is the dead intern found in Rep. Scarborough’s (R-FL) congressional office:
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20010808Klausutis.html
Here is a taste:
Tom65
Kos and Scar? Feh – handbags at 10 paces, that is.
Bas-O-Matic
@geg6:
She was found alone. Where she was expected to be. She had injuries consistent with hitting her head on the desk. Scarborough wasn’t even in the same state at the time of her death.
Mnemosyne
@Bas-O-Matic:
Well, you got one out of three right — they knew exactly where Lori Klausutis’ body was.
When the medical examiner in the case says that he doesn’t know how a person died but it must have been accidental, and then that medical examiner gets fired for the third time, I can’t really put a whole lot of faith in that medical examiner. If Scarborough was smart and innocent, he would have demanded that the police re-open the investigation when the original ME was fired for incompetence.
David in NY
@NonyNony:
I don’t go any more to a Greek restaurant in Astoria that got in trouble with the state department of labor for paying waiters only, no hourly. Which is basically what this guy is trying to do, assuming the waiter can haul in a cool $6.15 an hour in tips. He’s basically trying to stiff every waiter $40-$50 a week that they would make if they were getting minimum wage.
But how does this even apply to a waiter making (hypothetically) $100,000/year? Such a person could not possibly be making only the minimum wage, could s/he?
On the other hand, why am I spending my time discussing such total BS …
General Stuck
@eemom: I like Kos, but he plants his head up his ass fairly often with prog poutrages. I suspect he does this to sate the GOS beast he created, so as they don’t et him alive. Markos has been historically pragmatic and moderate on politics and process.
Mnemosyne
@Bas-O-Matic:
Well, sort of:
IOW, the medical examiner admitted to lying about the cause of death because he wanted to close the case quickly. And you don’t see any whiff of a cover-up lurking here?
geg6
@eemom:
I was not being snarky at all. Just being curious. I never seem to see you comment about anyone like Kos in a nice way and wondered if you were one who was new to this side of the aisle and reflexively hate on liberals and liberal commentators and such because you’re new to this side.
No, I haven’t read every comment you’ve posted on BJ. Just as I’m sure you haven’t read all of mine. I’m sorry if I insulted you, but your reply tells me that my initial reaction is probably correct.
Seriously. You were gonna agree but I hurt your fee fees and so now you won’t?
Whatever.
geg6
@Bas-O-Matic:
Wow. You don’t know anything about Lori Klausutis’ death, do you?
asiangrrlMN
@Mnemosyne: I think my gripe with it is that it’s not settled at all. I don’t have any money in the fight that Scarborough was involved or not, but the fact that it was so easily hushed up really speaks to the double standard of the media. Rumors of an affair, shady doctor, Scarborough refusing to say anything about it at all…yeah, there’s a shadow of doubt there.
maus
@geg6: According to Wikipedia, he joked about it with Don Imus after it happened.
Total IOKIYAR.
Waynski
Pretty sure I’ve read that Scarborough was in DC when the intern died in Florida. Condit, if I remember didn’t have a very good alibi and both he and Chandra Levy were in DC at the same time. Additionally, if I remember she was missing for quite awhile, so there was a lot speculation that he killed her, knew whrere the body was and was torturing her parents by not revealing it’s location. If I have my facts straight (and I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I don’t), then Markos should have left it alone, because it’s a bad analogy. Plus, being 1,000 miles away at the time of the death is pretty good evidence Scar probably wasn’t involved and suggesting that he was, dick though Scar may be, is pretty bad form. That said, banning someone from your network for a Twitter comment is clearly an overreaction also too.
eemom
@geg6:
take your condescending attitude and stick it up your ass.
If you don’t even recall what my comments have been you might pause a moment before talking about them out of such ass.
I’m no more “new to this side” than you are, and IIRC you’ve often bragged of being a DFH since the days of Eisenhower, or something.
I’ve said positive things here about many liberals and liberal commentators, including Benen, Krugman, Ezra Klein, Al Giordano, Joe Conason, Booman, and Rude Pundit, among others.
I’ve sneered, openly and often, at Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald, and occasionally also at Ariana Huffington and Maureen Dowd. If that’s your idea of “truly essential people in current liberalism” you’re an idiot from any side of the aisle.
David in NY
@General Stuck:
Markos has a short fuse sometimes, and should think before he talks. He’s good at polling analysis and broad strategy, and I think the people he gets to do front page posting are usually sensible about their different areas. And I appreciate the broad latitude his blog gives to people posting diaries. While there is much drivel, there is also much that is not. And when someone posts a truly stupid diary (I recall a recent vaccination denier post), the commentariat takes it apart with a verve reminiscent of commenters at Ballon-Juice at their most acerbic.
I’ve not been impressed with his debating skills, but aside from Rachel Maddow, I don’t see many Democrats excelling at this.
Seebach
@Waynski: You don’t think the media would have made a scandal of it were Scarborough a Democrat? Even though he were 1000 miles away, it still would have been a scandal. And both Condit and D-Scarborough at once? It would have been time to consider whether the Democratic Party had lost its moral bearings.
Redshirt
That’s the story here, right? That a Republican can get away with damn near anything, and conversely, a Democrat need not even do anything to be embroiled in scandal?
That’s the way the scales seem tipped to me. I wonder, though: A Wingnut would not doubt say the same thing, just opposite. Hmm.
maus
@Waynski: How about Vince Foster?
Mnemosyne
@Waynski:
Of course, it turned out that all of that speculation was false and Condit was innocent. Didn’t matter — his career was completely ruined anyway.
General Stuck
@eemom: Don’t sweat it eemom. Geg6 has pied me so many times my keyboard smells of meringue . I may very well be in the pie house currently.
Mnemosyne
@Redshirt:
A wingnut would say the same thing but have a hard time backing it up, particularly when you start comparing the Condit and Scarborough situations.
Shawn in ShowMe
@eemom
Unfortunately, your outspokenness has made you a target. I knocked Greenwald on a thread or two here where he really pissed me off, but you’re so much better at it than I am ;-)
When Al Giordano wrote up this memorable piece exposing the silly conspiracy merchants known as the Poutrage Lobby, it really crystallized things for me. I thought I was alone in my contempt for these people.
Catsy
@Mudge:
Oh, ferchrissake, no he hasn’t. And since reading the plain text of their exchanges doesn’t seem to help you here, let’s trry an analogy.
Let’s say two of the employees in an office–a liberal and a conservative–have both at different points in their career been wrongly accused of stealing, both without evidence. The liberal was dragged through the works–up to and including having the cops called and being taken away in handcuffs–before being vindicated. The conservative was informally questioned by his boss, who declared that he trusted his employee and it wasn’t him. There is a common–and justified–belief that liberals are held to a different standard in this office.
In illustrating the double standard that exists here, calling out the fact that the conservative employee got the white-glove treatment does not equal calling him a thief.
Similarly, noting that Joe Scarborough got a free pass from the media on his dead intern while Gary Condit got hounded out of office does not equal calling Scabby a murderer.
Seriously, people–pay attention. We have different words that mean similar things and different ways of discussing the same facts for a reason: the nuances matter, and they change the meaning of sentences in nontrivial ways.
Bas-O-Matic
@Mnemosyne:
There is no specific allegation in that article that Scarborough was having an affair with Klausutis, only a mention that he resigned amid rumors of marital infidelity. I’m having a hell of a time finding any contemporaneous sources, or articles citing contemporaneous sources, for any sort of founded accusations of an affair between the two.
I’m not going to get into any technical argument over the medical examiner, because I lack the expertise to evaluate any and all claims regarding what ultimately caused Klausutis head injury. But when you have lay people saying that what experts (not just the examiner, but the initial police determination that there were no signs of foul play, etc.) say can’t possibly be true and you have a writer inviting the reader to make logical leaps not justified by the evidence the writer is providing without explicitly making them herself, that always smacks of “conspiratorial” thinking.
Shalimar
@Waynski:
No. Being 1,000 miles away means that Scarborough couldn’t have killed her personally. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what happened and doesn’t mean he wasn’t involved somehow in her death. Also, he had enormous power in the local media and (as someone who lived in the district 15 miles from that office at the time) I have no doubt that he used that power to stop the story from developing. Coupled with the very shady medical examiner and the uncertain cause of death, there remain questions as to what actually happened and Scarborough is the one who most likely prevented an investigation from happening. He deserves any shit he gets over that.
Original Lee
Here’s some more about the Klausutis thing.
jayjaybear
@Bill E Pilgrim:
It’s not liberals that make Mika look stupid. It’s Mika that makes Mika look stupid.
I’m betting that Zbig cries into his cornflakes every morning over the shame his baby girl is causing him.
Shalimar
@Bas-O-Matic:
Scarborough was a very important person, police treat those type of people differently in the south and probably everywhere else. As for the examiner, he has a long, documented history of lying on autopsies and falsifying evidence. Why in the world would you give him the same deference that you would to experts with normal backgrounds?
FWIW, I don’t think Klausutis was having an affair with Scarborough and I don’t think he had anything to do with her death. Most likely, he hushed everything up after the fact because it would have looked bad for him considering that the Condit-Levy affair was in the news. But her death should have been investigated further to ascertain what happened, because it doesn’t seem from the evidence that it was as simple as her falling and hitting her head. There was potential evidence of a scuffle that police ignored.
NobodySpecial
@eemom:
Ok, I’m officially rolling on the floor here. This.Is.Priceless.
handy
@John from OH:
I don’t dispute any of that, and I don’t have a problem with Kos making the point about disparity between Condit and Scarborough. I don’t even really have a problem with him poking the lion a little bit, because Joe’s an ass and even more important, I’m just going to go out on a limb and he probably knows more about the dead intern in his office than he’s ever let on. It’s the walkback that I thought was tacky. Kos knew exactly what he was doing and how his tweet would be received, and yet he goes into full denial mode.
The Grand Panjandrum
The only news here (at least for me) is that MSNBC is still on the air.
pablo
I laughed my A*s off when I read that, and had to do this.
Kos didn’t say he did it, but Joe must have a guilty conscience.
Mudge
@catsy
What planet have you been living on? The only reason the Scarborough situation would need more light is if Kos believes it has been decided badly. And why wouldn’t Scarborough take offense? Certainly it was underdiscussed viz. Condit, but you do not attack the guy involved with the situation to make your point. Scarborough did not spearhead the media ignorance of the matter. Pick another example. There are many, Vitter, for one. Kos used very poor judgment, as he often does.
Comrade Kevin
@eemom:
Coming from you, that’s hilarious.
Zuzu's Petals
Without commenting on the ensuing kerfuffle, I think Kos’ original comment was a cheap shot.
eemom
@Comrade Kevin:
you know, you’re another person I’ve never said a single rude word to before, and I believe I’ve agreed with.
If there really is no semblance of mutual respect around here among regular commenters, and people are happy to be aggressive assholes to familiar people based on no provocation at all…….well, ok, that’s something to keep in mind.
In the future, I’ll show you what condescension looks like, “Comrade” — you obviously have no idea.
Sharl
Thanks to Shalimar for insight on the local (north Florida) vibe. I’d always hoped to see more such views from people who knew that turf, back when all this happened.
I read accounts of that business back in the day, and the way the local press went quiet so quickly caught my attention more than anything else. It had kind of a creepy feel, maybe like that old TV series American Gothic that Gary Cole starred in.
Of course, such hushing up gets practiced everywhere, and on a national scale too (pre-2004 election NYT coverup of domestic spying, for example). I dunno, there’s just something about local stories like this (as opposed to national) that makes it so viscerally creepy.
eemom
@Zuzu’s Petals:
And having already, um, remarked on the kerfluffle, there is one point I would make on the merits, although I actually don’t have much of an opinion about the whole Kostroversy.
Based on what I understand of the dead intern story, it really isn’t comparable to the Condit one. Chandra Levy wasn’t found dead (until long after the whole scandal was past) — she DISAPPEARED. Her parents, out of understandable desparation, did everything they could to feed the media frenzy, because they believed, again understandably, that Condit knew what had happened to her.
General Stuck
@eemom:
luv it when you talk like this.:-)
Kevin is one of our lurking ankle biters. Just parachutes in to take a shot, then parachutes out.
Shalimar
@Mudge:
You really don’t understand NW Florida. Scarborough was also publisher of a local newspaper at the time. He was well-connected with everyone who was anyone in Pensacola, where Klausutis’ death wasn’t a story despite it happening in an office of the sitting local congressman. He didn’t have the same connections in Okaloosa county 45 miles away, and everything we know about the story comes from the Fort Walton newspaper. Scarborough absolutely was responsible for making sure other local media outlets didn’t cover it, and that lack of coverage was why no national media picked up the story.
As far as Klausutis having an affair with Scarborough as many have suggested, she worked in the Fort Walton office, not in Pensacola. He wasn’t known for spending time in that part of his district, so it is unlikely that he knew her particularly well. Just because it was his office doesn’t mean he visited it regularly.
maus
@Sharl:
In South Florida it seemed hushed as well. Perhaps not actively, but I don’t recall it being discussed in our media.
Malron
[email protected] thread. I’m reading some of these silly defenses of Snotborough (while simultaneously taking shots at Kos) and I’m finally understanding what “hippie punching” means. I’ve had my beefs with Markos on certain subjects (his “I’m not donating to candidate Obama because he won’t listen to me” rant, his disparaging of the Big Three when GM and Chrysler needed a bailout to save thousands of UAW/loyal Democratic voter’s jobs, his alliances with Jane Hamster) but I gotta back him here.
I read the tweets. First of all, I find it sad and obscenely ludicrous that people lose their fucking jobs because of shit they write on Twitter and Facebook (a 20 year veteran Middle East correspondent at CNN was also forced to resign because she Twittered nice things about the passing of a Hezbollah leader being “a giant she respected a lot.” She said she intended to convey her respect for the leader’s policies on women’s rights, but that pesky 140 character limit precludes that). IMO pols and celebs should leave that shit to the kids because they look stupid trying to hang out there, but regardless they shouldn’t be getting fired for that shit.
I also have to agree with kos’ comparison: Scarborough is free to surmise and speculate on other people’s shit with impunity but how dare anyone point some of the stuff in his closet. Its also hypocritical of MSNBC to boot kos but let Liz Cheney, Pat Buchanan, etc continue to draw paychecks for the right wing whackaloonery.
But hey, I got over my cable news addiction a year ago, right about the time the Tea Party/Balloon Boy/Ft. Hood stories proved the 24 hour cable news cycle is nothing but a non-stop gossip/rumor mill that only exists to promote bullshit, bigotry and innuendo while distracting the people from the real story. I’m strictly a progressive blog/internet news reader now. Fuck the rest.
Jamie
@The Moar You Know:
Well, hell, how can he be expected to keep track of each and every individual one? He’s a busy man. Some lobbyist probably shot it hunting and gave it to him as a trophy or something.
demimondian
@Jamie: Nah. You don’t shoot interns; it spoils their fur. You bash them on the head with a club, just like other harp seals.
Jared
Heathers
“I love my dead gay son!”
JenJen
Must. Read. Digby.
Excerpt:
Gawd, I love me some Digby, especially when it comes to Villagers.
The Truffle
@Jamie: Can someone explain why Joe Scarborough hasn’t joined Tucker Carlson on the Island of Misfit Pundits?
Redshirt
@eemom: I’m with you eemom. Don’t let the haters bring you down!
I want more Kos v. Scarboro news today. Best story in a while, real potential. Perfectly timed with Wiegelgate and the firing of Nassr.
Goodbye, old media!
Waynski
@Seebach, Maus, Mnemosyne — Since you all seem to be thinking that I’m denying a media double standard, I’m not. What they did to Condit was wrong and abhorrent. Doing it to Scarborough (douchebag that he is) based on the evidence I’ve read about seems to me just as wrong and as my mother taught me two wrongs don’t make a right. We should be trying to get the media to stop doing it to Democrats at the behest of the Republican media machine (a la Vince Foster), rather than engaging in a headlong race to the sewer. I understand the desire for revenge, but I thought we’re supposed to be the reasonable, principled players on this stage. Engaging in the same kind of Richard Mellon Scaife conspiracy politics only makes us look more like the wingers. It seemed to me that’s what Kos was up to and he’s better than that.
@Shalimar — I wrote that because he was in DC at the time of her death that he “probably wasn’t involved.” The operative word here being probably. Could he have taken out a hit on her? It’s possible, but there seems to be no evidence of that, so unless something turns up, he deserves the same innocent until proven guilty treatment that Condit should have received from the media.
Jeebus, I can’t believe I’m defending Joe Scarborough.
brantl
@slippy: Slippy’s got it right. Scarborough is an ass, always was, always will be, and a WATB, to boot.
brantl
@eemom: I think you’ve given several good examples of condescension, at least from the working definition that I use.
Catsy
@Mudge:
The one in which words in the English language have specific meanings, a world in which you do not get to arbitrarily decide that someone said something they did not.
You might want to think about joining it.
Boy, I sure am glad you’re here to inform us that there is only one possible reason to cite that case, notwithstanding the alternate explanation I provided that is a much better fit for the words Kos actually used.
Why should anyone give a fuck whether or not Scarborough takes offense? That’s the whole point here, a point you keep missing: there are different rules for conservatives and liberals in the media. Conservatives are free to say any completely insane, insulting, and offensive thing they want and they will still be welcomed back as guests on any network. They can insult the network, insult its hosts, call the media unpatriotic, and otherwise hate on the very networks that will still unfailingly return their calls.
You’re not very good with this whole “context” thing, are you?
The entire point of comparing Condit’s treatment to Scarborough’s is that they happened at the same time, in the same media environment and social context. Within a couple months of each other, as a matter of fact. Both involved the death of their employees under mysterious circumstances. Scarborough’s incident is the most apt comparison imaginable to illustrate the disparity in treatment between Republicans and Democrats, and Markos was right to call it out.
I’m not one of his biggest fans, and Kos does indeed often use poor judgment, but this is not one of those times.
Your response, however, is setting new and exciting standards in the category of “entirely missing the point”.