Never even heard of this stuff:
On Tuesday, Gov. Jay Nixon, a Democrat, signed a bill prohibiting possession of K2. Missouri is the nation’s eighth state this year to ban the substance, which has sent users to emergency rooms across the country complaining of everything from elevated heart rates and paranoia to vomiting and hallucinations.
Investigators blame the drug in at least one death, and this month, Gov. Mike Beebe of Arkansas, a Democrat, signed an emergency order banning the substance. Similar prohibitions are pending in at least six other states, including Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York and Ohio, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
“It’s like a tidal wave,” said Ward Franz, the state representative who sponsored Missouri’s legislation. “It’s almost an epidemic. We’re seeing middle-school kids walking into stores and buying it.”
Wasn’t there another drug last summer that was supposedly sweeping the nation?
spudvol
Wasn’t there another drug last summer that was supposedly sweeping the nation?
That drug was ODS (Obama Disenchantment Syndrome). Everybody was doin’ it.
Doctor Gonzo
You’re probably thinking of Salvia, which was the last drug that was destroying out youth and driving good, God-fearing folk to the devil.
Redshirt
K2? The skis have been banned? Finally!
The Tim Channel
Now that marijuana is going legal, it’s time to make a strong case against all those evil cannabinoids instead. The war must never end.
Enjoy.
Michael
Most of the “herbal incense” products with pot-like intoxication qualities but severe side effects are concocted by an asshole chemist in North Carolina. He thinks he’s brilliant because he operates one step ahead of the various state legislatures, and brags about it.
That crap is poison when it gets smoked (there are warnings on the labels that it should not be smoked, but *wink-wink*, the kiddies are going to do it anyway). It is marketed most heavily in convenience stores servicing poor areas, and nets huge profits for distributors.
4tehlulz
This is what happens when your legislators are bought off by Big Reefer.
Michael
This isn’t the same as the bullshit with pot. This crap is poison.
Bill E Pilgrim
I always heard that K2 was the second biggest high in the world but I thought it was an actual place.
JR
I’ve tried it (or, rather, a different brand of the same shit). It’s basically an herbal tea that’s sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids. And it’s terrible. The buzz is real, but not much fun: it made me both paranoid and nauseous. The whole point of “legal bud” is to avoid breaking the law, but it still comes with paranoia. It’s also as expensive as the genuine aricle (actually, it’s far more expensive, since you get a crap high at premium prices). But if you want a pseudo weed buzz and you have to pee in a cup for some reason (I don’t) it’s the only game in town.
One definite selling point, though, is that it won’t turn up on either a drug test or a paraphenalia check with those test kits cops have started carrying in recent years. But that’s about all it has going for it.
RSA
Who knew you could walk into drug store and buy a mountain? I agree that this should be banned–there just isn’t enough geology to go around.
BR
@Doctor Gonzo:
Yeah, except that Salvia is not physically dangerous and not addictive, plus it never lasts more than an hour. And it has a centuries old history of responsible use by the people of Southwestern Mexico. Of course the media never pays attention to these factors.
I’ve found that it’s quite refreshing – after using it (maybe once every two months), I feel as mentally refreshed as if I took a short peaceful vacation.
superking
He who controls the spice controls the Universe!
There was a wapo article on this on Friday. It sounds like it’s leaves of an unknown planted treated with a bunch of unknown and undisclosed chemicals. I don’t care what you think about the legalization of pot, this stuff sounds like a bad idea.
some other guy
Wasn’t there another drug last summer that was supposedly sweeping the nation?
I seem to remember a lot of stories about kids ODing on jinsom weed tea a few years back. Having grown up in not too long ago as part of the local drug subculture in my town I thought it was pretty ridiculous. Actual weed (not to mention all manner of psychedelics, uppers, downers, and prescription drugs) was easy enough to find if you were looking to buy. Why literally poison yourself to get high?
Bill E Pilgrim
@superking: Ol’ Blue Eyes is back?
Scott
I still remember the panic about cheese…
Navigator
A futile attempt to stop people from being stupid.
Ignore it and let evolution play out.
D. Mason
From a logical viewpoint, it just makes sense to go with the legal poison. Get caught with drugs (or the accompaniments) and too often your life is ruined by a felony conviction. Poison yourself to get high and you’re sick for a few days then good as new. The downside is not even comparable until you get into such high doses you’re doing permanent damage to yourself. Why do you think model glue sniffing was such an “epidemic” in the 80’s? Anyone remember paint huffing as a trend? These are results of prohibition, just like multi-billion dollar drug cartels.
mclaren
It’s like a tidal wave! An epidemic!
Mission creep with a vengeance for the War on Drugs. Next, green tea, mountain dew, jolt cola…
dbcooper
QuaintIrene
@Navigator:
All this relentless heat and humidity had made me cranky so right now I agree with you.
AhabTRuler
Ah, yes, the ongoing and eternal moral panic requires new and different threats to maintain a sufficient level of fear.
Now gimme a carton of Marlboro Reds box, and a 12-pack of Bud Light Lime!
Mike E
dbcooper done disappeared again!
wasabi gasp
K2 sounds like a special ed program for slow kids who failed at partake in kindgarden.
spudvol
@wasabi gasp:
Kindergarten
Keith
Last year was salvia divinorum. I tried it back in 2001, and I thought it SUCKED. The effect was basically that half my brain (seriously) got real, real dizzy for a few minutes. That was it.
Ash Can
@Navigator: Except that this stuff is being abused by grade school kids, for whom “being stupid” is part of the job description. Kids are hard-wired to learn things the hard way. Why make it easier for them to get hurt in the process?
Sly
There was a pretty nasty heroin epidemic on Long Island that started about two summers ago and is still going on rather strong, especially among teenagers, but got major attention last summer when there were somewhere around 100 overdose-related deaths. The problem was basically cost and piss-poor drug education; dealers were able to bring in a whole lot of dirt cheap heroin (just a few dollars for a packet containing a couple of doses) and convinced users that they couldn’t OD or get addicted if they snorted it instead of injecting it.
That most suburban drug ed. programs primarily focus on marijuana and methamphetamines (and maybe powder cocaine) didn’t help matters. Because, you know, heroin is just a ghetto drug for poor and morally-suspect brown people.
Jacquelyn
So, not to seem obtuse, but is there some coded message in the party labeling of the governors in the NYT story? I tend to think if the stuff is causing health issues, then a responsible adult would ban it.
D-Chance.
Often marketed as incense, K2 — which is also known as Spice, Demon or Genie — is sold openly in gas stations, head shops and, of course, online. It can sell for as much as $40 per gram. The substance is banned in many European countries, but by marketing it as incense and clearly stating that it is not for human consumption, domestic sellers have managed to evade federal regulation.
If it’s banned in much of Europe… feh.
The dealers have already made preparations…
“Once it goes illegal, I already have something to replace it with,” said Micah Riggs, who sells the product at his coffee shop in Kansas City. “There are hundreds of these synthetics, and we just go about it a couple of them at a time.”
But, of course, this is all just totally fun and innocent.
Alice Blue
Synthetic marijuana? Is nothing sacred?
jrg
I say we outlaw it, spend hundreds of billions of dollars fighting it, and force the proles to pee in cups – we will then test the proles’ urine for the presence of K2.
We can stop this thing. It’s not like K2 is a plant that almost any idiot can grow almost anywhere. Think of the children!
jank_w
“Similar prohibitions are pending in at least six other states, including Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York and Ohio, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.”
Damn, guess I’m gonna have to go back to shots of hand sanitizer and robotussin. Is robotussin still legal?
fdc
look at the very hard scientific proof they have that k2 is deadly
logic at its best :facepalm:
magurakurin
what could be better than a tab of genuine window-pane LSD?
Why the need for a new drug? The old ones were excellent.
Amanda in the South Bay
IDK, I’ve found that synthetic stuff at head shops can vary widely in quality and side effects-some are definitely more noxious than others, but others are nice. I think actual weed has just as much diversity in its effects.
Is it kosher to talk about drug use openly like this?
flukebucket
Sounds like a pretty typical Friday night back in the early 70’s to me.
If this K2 is the stuff I read a little bit a few months ago it is might damn expensive. Marijuana was cheaper.
Alice Blue
Mnemosyne
I give leave to doubt that “middle-school” kids are actually buying the stuff but, assuming they are, what would be the problem with putting an age limit on this stuff like we do for tobacco and alcohol? I have no problem with adults deciding to poison themselves, but if this stuff is poorly regulated and dangerous, legally limiting it to adult use like we do with other legal drugs is probably a better idea.
Nylund
@magurakurin:
Huey Lewis and the News covered this issue many years ago.
jenkem
anyone got the lean? i’m looking for some purple drank, who has the sizzurp?
seriously, the only thing about these stories is the ubitquity of needing to get fucked up to cope with life, and the type of high that various groups will embrace.
Cain
They are doing this all wrong. Our real problem is that we as country can never do anything in moderation cuz all we do is ban or prohibit and our youth go nuts with all that repression.
When I was in college in the midwest, it always seems that the goal of the weekend was to get fucked up, hammered and enjoy the resulting hang overs. Meanwhile I visited France and alcohol was more of an enhancement to a good time already being had enjoying each others company.
We have a cultural issue and maybe if we stop banning things at the drop of the hat it might work. (well there are exceptions of course, but..) We can’t protect children, they are going to try it regardless of the consequences. Might as well ake it with them and help them navigate it. Plus it’ll take away the whole rebellious thing.
cain
Joel
Mm… JWH-018…
Joel
@BR: Salvia’s a special case. Kappa opiod agonist, has the potential analgesic properties of mu opiod agonists (like morphine) but none of the euphoria or addictive properties. In fact, it has quite the opposite: dysphoria and dysphoric hallucinations.
Mmm.. dysphoria.
licensed to kill time
When I saw this post title I thought it was about the mountain in Pakistan and thought what madness now?
So I see that kids have figured out yet another way to get high. (Warning! Back in the day alert!) We thought banana peel scrapings would do it (didn’t) and we ogled the alcohol content in vanilla and mouthwash. My SO tells me that on Friday nights at the local pfarmacy the lines used to go around the block as youts waited to buy codeine cough syrup OTC. I remember when you could get little 1 or 2 oz bottles of paregoric (for babies teething) OTC and it would kicka you ass. Don’t even get me started on the morning glory seeds (puke-tastic) fad.
And so it goes.
Navigator
@ Ash Can
Making this illegal just adds a bad boy vibe to it.
Let it stay stupid and dangerous, like roach powder.
Greg
@Scott Cheese hysteria is still alive and well here in Dallas. There are huge warnings about it on every Dallas school’s website. According to them our classrooms are populated with 12 year old drugged out zombies intent on killing themselves and/or their classmates and teachers. The only answer is more regulations and restrictions on students.
scarshapedstar
So, to recap:
The stuff doesn’t contain marijuana. It doesn’t even contain ‘synthetic marijuana’ insomuch as it doesn’t contain the active ingredient. And apparently there’s 100 different things referred to as K2.
What exactly are they banning?
scarshapedstar
Waa waa waa. The government banned 2 Live Crew, didn’t they? Doesn’t mean that everyone selling their records was Al Capone.
HEY, here’s a crazy idea! Maybe, instead of trying to ban an ever-growing list of weird “legal highs” of dubious safety, they could simply create a legal alternative. You know, like a plant, one that’s not addictive, one that’s been used for thousands of years with NOT ONE SINGLE DEATH EVER and has documented medicinal benefits to boot.
Man, I wonder what that could be?
Nellcote
@Cain:
But then you end up with Young Republicans. Kids are supposed to rebel, that’s their job.
Joe
@D. Mason: The point is to avoid a “positive” drug test. For many people who can’t smoke the real thing because they’d like to stay employed, substitutes like k2 are a “safe” alternative.
And as to these products being “poisonous,” consider the fact that our own government has been telling us that the real thing is poisonous for decades — with little or no evidence to support their claims.
Let’s face it, people are going to get high. If their own government forces them to smoke dangerous substitutes rather than legalize the natural product and ban unconstitutional invasions of privacy (through random drug tests) who’s really at fault here?
Tonal Crow
@D. Mason: This. The War on Drugs is poisoning us, in addition to eating our liberty, filling our prisons, stuffing our welfare rolls, breaking up our families, replacing communities with company towns run by the prison-industrial complex, corrupting our foreign policy, replacing discourse with doublethink-style propaganda, and promoting Republicans and Blue Dogs.
JGabriel
John Cole:
Salvia, as many have noted above. Thing is, salvia usage became popular over the last ten years, but no one really reported on it until a Democrat was president. Now we have K2, and the kidz are goin’ CRAZEE!
You’d almost think someone has a vested interest in making the present look like the 70’s.
Coundown to Alice Cooper comeback in 5 … 4 … 3 …
.
Ecks
I don’t think anyone here will care much, but you should be aware that you are admitting illegal activity in a forum that cannot guarantee 100% anonymity (i.e., the internet).
If you are in a position for this to come back and bite you, senator, then I would be careful. Otherwise it is a tiny calculated risk that falls somewhere between crossing the road and popping the blue pill the guy on your street corner swears is speed. But probably closer to the former than the latter.
Just so you’ve thought about it.
Ecks
@JGabriel: This is a regular pattern though. Ecstasy was legal for the decade or so after it was created until it started becoming too popular in the Dallas night club scene (bars were openly offering specials on hits of E with a shot of something), at which point it got noticed by Washington and in 1986 they listed it on schedule one. All kinds of psychotherapists and religious groups were miffed about this because they were using it to get people all peaced out with a sense of empathy, but it was too late for the moral panic.
Read a whole book about this way back in undergrad :)
andrewtna
Pep Spice is bullshit – gives you a high but more of a headache than anything. This is the most ridiculous quote ever:
Gun room couldn’t have been the problem. No way. But the lead investigator saying, “It has to be K2.” Seriously?
Tonal Crow
@andrewtna:
The problem here is bad religion, not bad drugs. “Hell” is one hell of a problem when winger religionists deploy it.
John Bird
Synthetic cannabinoids don’t have effects like this. Whatever these people are smoking, it contains something else (probably totally different things in different cases).
Of course, you know, legal pot would solve this problem completely.
Oh, yeah, and that other drug is salvia divinorum, which is not something people tend to try more than once or twice.
Good call on this being another pointless scare story, though. The year before that it was huffing fumes from feces that was going to kill all our kids.
You know what actually kills our kids? Booze. It’s been doing it for a few thousand years.
New Yorker
Same here. My first thought was the skis, and my second thought was “darn, we’re never going to invade Pakistan and take control of the Karakoram Range”.
kay
@andrewtna:
It didn’t make a lot of sense to me, so I went to the Des Moines Register article, and found this:
Aardvark Cheeselog
The Times piece obscures more than it illumines.
Lift a moistened skin flap in the general direction of the Erowid “Spice Product” <a href="http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/spice_product/spice_product.shtml">vault, especially the item “Spice & Spin-offs.”
Hope I got those tags right.
Cris
Almost completely. Under my program of legalization (were I king), it would still be subject to all the same legal restrictions as alcohol — in particular, with an age limit. So that kind of legalization still wouldn’t solve the problem of stupid stuff underage kids do.
(One might respond that the solution is to not have an age limit. Maybe. I don’t know if it’s a good idea to allow 12-year-olds to buy vodka. But I know it would never fly politically.)