Lots of discussion today about a new poll showing Harry Reid with a seven point lead over Sharron Angle. Angle isn’t a run-of-the-mill winger; her old website sounds like it was written by a third-grade teajihadist, e.g. “pay back the deficit”, “Sharron Angle will work toward making a basket of commodities (metals, oils, etc.) as a basis for maintaing the value of the U.S. currency”. Current intelligence suggests that Angle writes many of the comments on Ben Smith’s blog.
So I have to disagree with Daniel Larison when he writes that Michael Gerson is wrong and hypocritical to be frightened by Angle:
What is remarkable here is that Gerson is pretending that he is some latter-day Burke expressing revulsion at violent revolution when he happily served in an administration whose practical policy and stated goal was to try to export revolution all over the world. Perhaps the most important point to be made here is that Gerson worked alongside the people who ushered in violent political change that devastated an entire country, and they also trampled on the rights of American citizens and subjected suspects to indefinite detention and abuse. For her part, Sharron Angle has indulged in some careless and probably ultimately meaningless rhetoric about resisting tyranny at home. Angle’s rhetoric may be reckless or it may be empty, but so far she has not used her rhetoric in the service of an administration given to starting wars and violating the Constitution.
It is true that Gerson served and continues to defend the worst president in modern history, but the only thing that makes Angle’s rhetoric “probably ultimately meaningless” is that she is unlikely to become president. When Angle talks about “Second Amendment remedies” and moving the United States to some strange commodity-based currency, we should take her at her word. Even disgraced ex-Bushies have the right to object to her positions.
Zoogz
The only problem is that crosses of oil only end up as tarballs on the beach.
Comrade Mary
I am still astounded that people as incoherent and vengeful as Angle win primaries. But then I remember that the cortex is just a thin layer over the reptilian brain, and that the most of us are rationalizing rather than rational creatures even when we have our cortex in gear, and I despair anew.
This, however, makes me happy.
Johnny B
I always assumed, and considered it a truism, that you always treat the policy positions of your political opponent as being sincere. Otherwise, the whole point of elections seems to fall apart. I understand that politicians words are often lies or “red meat for the base,” but we should assume for purposes of the campaign that they mean them.
beltane
Does the “basket of commodities” include Angle’s tinfoil hat?
I am grateful that a Republican, any Republican, has the sense to point out that Sharron Angle is crazy in a not-very-endearing way. To ignore her type of CT laced hate-speech is to effectively condone it. Bush did many, many terrible things, but he did not call for “Second Amendment remedies” to be carried out against those who did not vote for him. This new breed of wingnut is intent upon stripping their opponents of all civic, and even basic human, rights.
Pangloss
Lordy. At a certain point, don’t we just have to trust that most of our friends and neighbors won’t pull the lever for “The Crazeee?” It would help if the rest of us didn’t act ashamed that we’re using reason as a basis for public policy.
MattF
I don’t understand Larison’s point. If you discount Angle’s rhetoric, what’s left?
David
The Rude Pundit on Sharron Angle:
“Angle is a less-evolved Sarah Palin, who knows to never say anything specific about anything unless you fill your speech with random buzzwords for obfuscation.”
. . .
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2010/07/nevada-senate-candidate-sharron-angle.html
wonkie
I think that it is safer generally to assume that conservative politicians are lying when they presennt their policies to the public. Either lyng or just spouting meaningless generalities. What to conservatives usually say? They are against big governemnt programs (except the ones in their states that support white voters), they want to cut taxes (for wealthy people), they want a strong national defense( but support an aggressively offensive policy) and want to keep the deficit down ( by increasing it dramatically every time they get power).
The problem for conservatives with Angle is two fold: she doesn’t hide her craziness behind lies and she will probably lose the election.
If they thhought she was going to win there would be no problem with her. If they knew she was crazy but knew she could lie well and misrepresent herself they would haveno problem with her.
Jim Pharo
I call BS. The Bushites have no standing to call out empty-heads like Angle. That’s exactly who they promoted as a candidate and served as President. For them to recoil in horror now is of course a good thing, but it doesn’t mean their ideas are meaningfully different than what President Angle would enact.
I’m most impressed with Bush-ites like McClellan who seem to more or less own up to the truth that they were snake oil salesmen. While there are degrees of nuttiness, it’s all nutty and all of it needs to be ditched before our future can be thought of as secure.
Bill E Pilgrim
Sorry this is off topic only because “Clown Shoes” isn’t in the tags (despite seeming appropriate) :
Via Salon’s War Room this article about a guy shooting up his house because he thought he was being attacked by clowns seemed only moderately amusing until I came to this part:
After the incident, banana peels were issued to all S.W.A.T. teams as standard equipment.
Fergus Wooster
@MattF: Exactly – although she denies her own rhetoric when called on it, even if quoted from her own website. Surreal.
The woman creeps me out. With that overbite and empty stare, she looks like an evil, redneck Jerri Blank.
cleek
can we use a basket of muffins instead? cause who the fuck wants a basket of “metals and oils” ? besides the Tin Man of course – and he’ll just masturbate with it.
@Fergus Wooster:
$100 to the first person to get Angle to say “Cancer? That’s hilllaaarrrrious!”
General Stuck
Fantastic title DougJ!!
NonyNony
@Comrade Mary:
I’m not. The Republicans have been actively working for, oh, at least 20 years to push reasonable, moderate people out of their party. The politicians have hung on longer than the voters, but the voting base has really swung to the nutters these days.
When the moderate voters have given up on your party and stopped identifying themselves as Republicans, you end up with this kind of situation. It’s also part of the reason why the Democratic Party has gotten less and less economically liberal over the last, oh, 20 years or so. People like their tax cuts, but no one sane wants to be lumped in with the Birchers.
TR
Ouch. I can’t decide which half should be more offended.
Sentient Puddle
Wait, Angle is proposing meat, of all things, as a monetary unit? Don’t the wingnuts fetishize the gold standard because they hate inflation?
Bubblegum Tate
@Fergus Wooster:
Hahahaha! That is awesome.
Norwegian Shooter
Larison does not say it is wrong of Gerson to criticize Angle, just hypocritical. Extremely so, because Gerson was a speechwriter in an administration that claimed to be “conservative” while saying things like:
“So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.”
In the offending quote offered by Larison:
“Angle has managed to embrace the one Founding Father with a disturbing tolerance for the political violence of the French Revolution. “Rather than it should have failed,” enthused Jefferson, “I would have seen half the earth desolated.” Hardly a conservative model.”
The last sentence is the lowlight. Gerson is being hypocritical, not wrong.
boonagain
$100 to the first person to get Angle to say “Cancer? That’s hilllaaarrrrious!”
She may not say that, but there is a strong possibility of her responding to a question with either ‘hobo camp’ or ‘fandango’.
mr. whipple
@Sentient Puddle:
I’m hoarding Slim Jims. They keep forever.
Cat Lady
“Even the conservative Michael Gerson” – new tag?
Unfortunately for Sharon Angle, and fortunately for us, her craziness doesn’t come in the wingnut-preferred Prejean/Palin/Bachmann wrapping paper. She’s not ready for prime time either intellectually or physically.
4tehlulz
Today I learned that dog whistling for the violent overthrow of the federal government can be considered empty rhetoric.
Bob Loblaw
@Johnny B:
I assume that means you think Obama is a bigot against gay people then, right? After all, what other justification is there for his opposition to marriage equality?
Let’s face it, politicians will lie at the drop of a hat. They’re a very fatalistic bunch that way.
Davis X. Machina
The purpose of the State is to provide a police escort for their getaway car.
cleek
@boonagain:
$1000 if someone can get her to say “My vagina’s all … puffy.”
Bubblegum Tate
@boonagain:
If somebody gets her to say, “Poor Southerners are hilaaaaarious!” I will absolutely crack the hell up.
elmo
These people aren’t funny. Not anymore.
If the economy doesn’t improve between now and July of 2012, the next president will not be Barack Obama — the next president will be whoever the Republicans nominate.
The Republican nomination will be won by whoever wins the South Carolina Republican primary.
Which means: If the economy doesn’t improve in the next eight quarters, the craziest voters in the craziest state will effectively choose our next president. At that point, I’m no longer worried about Sarah Palin becoming president. I’m worried about Mark Williams becoming president.
russell
What, chickens aren’t gonna get it done anymore? I have to bring a barrel of crude when I go to the doctor?
And with your vote, she hopes to have that opportunity.
boonagain
@ cleek
or that “she’s moist as a snack cake…down there”
cleek
@4tehlulz:
… if you’re a Republican.
Democrats can be deemed treasonous for simply questioning a President’s decisions.
Davis X. Machina
@elmo: They’re all the same, elmo. All the cool kids are saying that.
Do you want to sit over here with the math team for lunch, forever? Get with the system.
matoko_chan
This Weigel guy is treading on my last nerve.
WRONG! the NAACP called out the TPM for pandering to racists to get their votes. They didn’t fail. They formed the problem.
Not a single minority voter will suddenly decide to join the teaparty as a result of the teabaggers screaming WE ARE NOT RACISTS.
I RELLY RESENT Weigel’s premise that the NAACP should be reforming the teabaggers by treating them gently.
We see this allatime from all the bourgie conservatives– eg, McMegan and Douthat on Dr. Tiller’s murder being caused by liberals refusing to over turn Roe.
ITS YOUR JOB TO REFORM THE TPM WEIGEL.
ITS NOT THE NAACPS JOB TO CONVINCE BLACK PEOPLE TO VOTE CONSERVATIVE……ITS YOUR FUCKING JOB!
MAN UP AND DO IT!
we dont care if conservatism goes down to the demographic timer in forever defeat.
Survival of the fittest works for memetics as well genetics.
sorry for the shrill.
:(
Snarki, child of Loki
It really is amazing how wingers can selectively pull out the crunchy bits from the Palin Word Salad.
But I guess it’s a natural ability; they’re also able to pull out the sound of those voices in their heads, with all that loud white noise going at the same time.
Michael
OT, but I had to guffaw aloud at this.
At National Review in a Conrad Black piece, FDR goes from perpetual goat for the conservatives to hero for the conservatives.
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=OTI3ZmJiOWM5NTEwMzI3N2JjY2YzZmM0MTViNDk1MDU=
Of course, FDR was of their class and color, so now he gets a pass. I wonder how they would react if Obama came close to approaching the fervor that FDR had in achieving his agenda?
Davis X. Machina
Keep the fervor, just give me a 78-17 Senate and you can be as uninspired as you like.
cleek
@matoko_chan:
Weigel is not impressing me.
neither is Frum, who approvingly quotes Jamie Kirchick:
people are made to answer for the actions of their government all the fucking time: sanctions, wars, trade agreements, tariffs, travel restrictions, import/export bans, etc..
idiots.
Hunter Gathers
@Fergus Wooster: If Angle is Jerri Blank, who’s Chuck Noblet? Or Geoffrey Jellineck?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Sentient Puddle:
From T-bills to T-bones! Why should young bucks have all the fun?
The prions…are…not…laughing
batgirl
My parents’ friends in Las Vegas who can’t stop bitching about Obama and Reid are all freaked out my Angle and are now bitching about how they have no choice but to vote for Reid.
beltane
@matoko_chan: Weigel has been pretty horrid. I am surprised the Washington Post let him go; he fits right in with their caliber of reporting.
Alex S.
Harry Reid is a lucky SOB. What will he do with all the campaign money he’s hoarded?
Also, the moment Angle and Rand Paul got nominated, the Republican puppetmasters were realizing that they took things too far.
Hunter Gathers
@matoko_chan: I noticed he said nothing about Mark William’s racist rant to Abraham Lincoln. Must have slipped his mind after having one mint julip too many.
IM
I understand Larison dislike of Gersob, but he goes to far in his arguments, whitewashing Angle in the process. A few months ago her rhetoric would perhaps be harmless and perhaps not; there is right-wing terrorism after all and she seems to be a symphatizer. Now does iit matters, because
a) She is the republican candidate for senate
b) she is not repudiated by her party ( like David Duke) and has a good chance to win
A senator who supports violence in political affairs is hardly meaningless.
shortstop
Well, not all meat, but certainly mutton.
matoko_chan
@Hunter Gathers: im waiting for TNC. those retards are going to get an epic beatdown.
:)
Adam Collyer
I always find it amazing how many are willing to make excuses for actual statements. As if the observer is able to read the speakers mind to determine “true intention.”
We need to take people for what they say at face value. During the 2008 campaign, McCain and Palin would race-bait the GOP electorate and insinuate that Obama was un-American. In response, supporters would say things like, “Oh, but McCain doesn’t really believe that. He’s just trying to gin up votes from the GOP.”
Look, if he doesn’t believe that, then he shouldn’t be running for the nomination of the Republican Party. If he doesn’t believe that, then he shouldn’t say it. He’s never going to admit that he’s cynically using the base to his advantage. But don’t tell me that he’s “not racist.” I don’t care what you think he thinks. I don’t care what he thinks. I care what he says, because when he opens his mouth, I’m assuming what he’s saying is a relatively honest statement about his core values.
I’m not interested in guessing what people think because it’s unprovable. I’m interested in what people say. Obama was a public option supporter because he said so multiple times in multiple speeches. That it got caught up and removed during negotiations doesn’t make him less of a supporter or that he was just “using” progressives. Palin thought that Obama wasn’t American because she said so multiple times. This isn’t rocket science.
Corner Stone
@beltane:
I thought something similar. The guy was most likely going to be the next really prominent chucklehead in the wingnut welfare loop in the next 10 years. Then he D’ohd! himself.
Cost himself a lot of money in the long run.
SRW1
@Comrade Mary:
Maybe this article in the Boston Globe will help.
Fergus Wooster
@Hunter Gathers:
Eric Cantor looks an awful lot like Noblet. Now who is the Jellineck he’s cottaging with in the men’s room?
jake the snake
My almost homeboy Terry Bisson:
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml
matoko_chan
@Corner Stone: do you think hes trying to work his way back into wingnut good graces? his Sully material has been painfully stupid.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
A self-hating libertarian perhaps?
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder:
Well, according to this blog:
1. Rightwingers need someone to demonize
2. Liberals need someone to validate them
3. Libertarians don’t need anybody
So a self-hating glibertarian would be one messed up cracker.
I had no clue who DW was when he foofed up, but it took about 5 minutes to figure out why I had never read any of his stuff or followed him in any way.
He’s a douchebag.
Norwegian Shooter
@IM: Larison’s only mention of Angle was this:
That’s a whitewash? The entire post is in reference to Gerson, not Angle. Angle is merely the newshook Gerson used to show how hypocritical he is.
Speaking for myself, isn’t it a good thing that Angle quickly tried to scrub the most tea-tarded things she’d said in pursuit of the tea-baggers in the GOP primary? Isn’t that called running to the middle for a general election? Allowing the vapors to fuel over-heated outrage at stupid GOP nominees, even if it is a US Senate race, only helps candidates like Angle and the people who support her.
Bill in OH
@Hunter Gathers:
I think we all know who Obama is!
bjacques
Little Red Riding Hood went skipping into the woods carrying a basket of commodities. She never made it out.
The GOP never seems to run out of these people. They’ve got more nutty candidates than the Taliban have third-in-commands.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
Well, we are talking about someone who is seemingly attempting to work himself back in the good graces of the conservative movement, complete with egregious false equivalencies like comparing the New Black Panthers to the (once again) burgeoning militia/domestic terrorism movement.
So…yeah. I think he qualifies.
matoko_chan
jesus mary and joseph, does Weigel actually have the IQ of a sentient hay bale?
Palins favorable unfavorable ratio is still 44/47 and a palin run would bring Obama’s base (youth and minorities) screaming down like a Reaper strafing run on an afghan wedding party.
What an idiot.
Sully, come back soon!
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@matoko_chan:
Over the years Sully has shown a tendency to pick guest bloggers in a manner similar to an insecure bride picking ugly bridesmaids for the wedding party.
NonyNony
@batgirl:
I figured Angle would be good to shave off some voters at best – have some “reasonable Republicans” decide that they just can’t vote for her so they abstain altogether.
I’m somewhat surprised that there’s anyone left in the Republican party who would be willing to vote for the Democrat rather than just not vote at all. That’s somehow heartening. Or depressing. I’m not sure which yet.
IM
@Norwegian Shooter:
Yes,it a whitewash of Angel, who is minized to better attack Gerson. I know who are a prolific commenter on Larisons blog , but you take your loyalty too far.
That’s a whitewash? The entire post is in reference to Gerson, not Angle. Angle is merely the newshook Gerson used to show how hypocritical he is.
No. Angel is just the hook Larison uses to attack Gerson fpr hypocrisy. Gerson is a hypocrite, but Angel is still a dangerous right-wing extremist propagating violence.
Speaking for myself, isn’t it a good thing that Angle quickly tried to scrub the most tea-tarded things she’d said in pursuit of the tea-baggers in the GOP primary? Isn’t that called running to the middle for a general election?
That is now called running to the middle? Defining deviancy down.
Allowing the vapors to fuel over-heated outrage at stupid GOP nominees, even if it is a US Senate race, only helps candidates like Angle and the people who support her.
So calling a right-wing extremist – and that is what she is, – not merely stupid – out for her positions is wrong? She is not the token candidate against Schumer, but a candidate for one of only hundred senators in a swing state for god’s sake.
If you can’t attack her on the merits, who can you attack?
I will never get the unilateral disarmament that US democarts practice as wise politics.
And Larison has a blind spot for much right-wingery of the militia – neoconfederate – tax resister – fundamentalistic sort. There are monsters out there who are not neo-cons , after all.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
It’s Angle. Not Angel.
But despite that fact, Angle is heaven sent. Who could have believed that the moron GOP could pick somebody who will lose so badly to Harry Reid?
Delicious.
Remember just last year when all the hot talk on the left was about primarying Reid to get rid of him?
Heh.
IM
Ok, Angle is just the angle to attack Gerson. I would never mix a decent tv series in that. (Angel probably thinks Angel is blasphemy).
Why you blame the steady march of the republicans to the right on the mostly imaginary american left I can’t understand. (Show me on the puppet where Hamsher touched you!)
Elizabelle
@bjacques:
Inspired.
Boots
Sorry, but I am with Larisen on this one, and in fact, IMO this goes all the way back to those who so giddily ushered in the Ronald Reagan era 30 years ago. Sorry, folks, but just as the disaster that was George W. Bush was the natural next step in the Reagan Revolution, so is Sharron Angle the next step up (down?) from the policies and positions of the Bush II administration. IMO it’s all part of a continuum, one people with their heads squarely on their shoulders saw it coming back in 1981. For Gerson to act as though he were now shocked by it now is a little disingenuous to say the least. The Sharron Angles were exactly who he and his predecessors in the Reagan administration were courting and pandering to all along. they just didn’t expect the inmates to take over the asylum so soon.
YellowJournalism
“Soylent Green is currency!”
mclaren
Obtuse Angle: next step in Reagan Devolution.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Boots.
TGGP
Commodity-based standards were workable for centuries. The track record of their replacements has hardly been encouraging.
None of the above should be taken as an indictment of fractional-reserve banking, which is a separate issue.
Norwegian Shooter
@IM: Arguing that I’m just loyal to Larison is ad hominem. BTW, I agree with much of his foreign policy commentary, but recoil at just about all of his domestic policy views. The thing is, the only real domestic politics he does is evaluating GOP presidential candidates.
“Angel is still a dangerous right-wing extremist propagating violence.”
I can’t argue otherwise, I don’t know. Can you tell me how dangerous? What violence? But my contention is that this statement is over-heated and it only helps, not harms, Angel.
“If you can’t attack her on the merits, who can you attack?” Show me the merits. I would sincerely like to hear them.
“I will never get the unilateral disarmament that US democrats practice as wise politics.”
I have not disarmed. I am simply saying that attacking her “Second Amendment remedies” quote is counter-productive. I”m sure she has plenty of other crazy domestic policies to attack. If I had the interest, I would happily attack them. Also, my contempt for Harry Reid as Majority Leader certainly is playing a role here. If Angel wasn’t a teatard, I would actually hope Reid loses. Call me spiteful, whatever.