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You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Eagle Has Landed

The Eagle Has Landed

by John Cole|  August 4, 20105:59 pm| 199 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Or the turkey, depending on your opinion of me. I am now safe and secure in my out of state bunker in an undisclosed location. Because I am not paying for it, the thermostat is on 60 and I am sitting on the window unit airing my particulars out, because after multiple flights I’m pretty damned miserable hot. After a shower, it will be time for complimentary cocktails. I’m glad they are free, because I left my toiletry bag at home and now have to go buy a 70 dollar toothbrush downstairs.

I hope you all are being nice to Erik. Remember, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a horrible person. Unless you disagree with me, in which case you are both wrong and an asshole. But back to the point- let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here than Red State would be to a liberal.

Already miss my dogs, and the person who is house-sitting for me has already called to inform me that Rosie growls, snarls, and is hostile towards him as he tries to let her out of the crate. Wait til he meets Tunch. Good thing I have insurance for anyone injured in my home.

*** Update ***

Went to a Laotian restaurant for dinner. Couple Singhas, some papaya salad, and an order of khua mee later, and I feel like ten bucks.

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Reader Interactions

199Comments

  1. 1.

    BGinCHI

    August 4, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    If you’re in CA you can get married to a man, but you better hurry.

  2. 2.

    Cacti

    August 4, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Erik taught me that Shirley Sherrod has no case against Andrew Breitbart.

    Because…um…he says so.

  3. 3.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    August 4, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I think having a blog must be a lot like having an ant farm.

    I hope they’re not running amok and attacking each other, I wonder if I left enough food and water, maybe putting that one red ant in there just before I left wasn’t a good idea….

  4. 4.

    Midnight Marauder

    August 4, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    But back to the point- let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here than Red State would be to a liberal.

    Tell them to bring some logic and rational thinking, and there won’t be any problems.

  5. 5.

    CorgiFan

    August 4, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    @John Cole:
    Thanks for not letting this become just a left-of-center echo chamber.

  6. 6.

    freelancer

    August 4, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    I hope you all are being nice to Erik. Remember, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a horrible person. Unless you disagree with me, in which case you are both wrong and an asshole. But back to the point- let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here than Red State would be to a liberal.

    I just hope he has a lot of shovels.

    Sane Conservative, today, seems to be somewhere along the lines of “I continue to believe a lot of demonstrably false, goofy shit, and when countered on it, I’ll hedge and argue from emotion or in terms derived from utopian morality, fillled with equivocating nebulous language, but at least I don’t listen to Beck or Limbaugh.”

    Just sayin’. He seems like he’s got heart, he just stumbled out of the gate.

  7. 7.

    martha

    August 4, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    You can’t be in Wisconsin, because we don’t offer complimentary cocktails to anyone. Oh, unless you’re sitting next to us at the Memorial Union Terrace in Madison (overlooking Lake Mendota) on summer evening and you tell us you can’t believe that this gorgeous place exists…in Wisconsin of all places. Then we’ll spring for a beer. Or three.

    Have fun!

  8. 8.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    I hope you all are being nice to Erik.

    rawr.
    like i said, Cornerstone and the General are going to make him cry the first day, and ill be wearing his intellectual guts for garters tomorrow.

    tell you what, have Erik post his Fisher King piece which is really a beautiful work, and let the commentariat rejudge him.
    Kind of unfair to dump him in here after he recently said some epic stupid at Sully’s which we all read.

    good journey, my liege

  9. 9.

    Comrade Javamanphil

    August 4, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Glad your safe and sound but really, that visual of you and the AC unit, it is dinner time in EST. Go gay marry or something.

  10. 10.

    liberty60

    August 4, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Based on what was going on in the Newt post, I suspect that when John returns it won’t just be his house that is knee deep in crap and ripped up sofa pillows.

  11. 11.

    Chyron HR

    August 4, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Tunch just gay married both your dogs. This is what happens when you vote for Democrats instead of being a sane conservative.

  12. 12.

    Nellcote

    August 4, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Probably just a coincidence but what’s with all the dog training ads suddenly?

  13. 13.

    EconWatcher

    August 4, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    OT, but this account by Christopher Hitchens of his experiences so far with metastasized cancer is vivid and moving. This is the kind of writer we may soon lose:

    http://tweetmeme.com/story/1877116159/topic-of-cancer-culture-vanity-fair

    I have a good friend who’s had an amazing bounce-back from a cancer death sentence (after she endured a savage bout of chemo). She’s now back to being the 50-year old who can turn the heads of guys half her age. But she lives in fear. I think anyone who’s been close to this horrible disease can appreciate Hitchens’ writing.

  14. 14.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    @martha: Actually the Clarion Suites over by the Alliant Energy Center does have a complimentary cocktail and appetizer thingie for its guests.

    Also, hard liquor is poured with a very heavy hand here so it makes up for a lot.

    ETA: What is wrong with my typing today?

  15. 15.

    EconWatcher

    August 4, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    CorgiFan:

    Well said. I think John has the right instinct in trying to include more diversity of opinion.

  16. 16.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 4, 2010 at 6:20 pm

     

    I hope you all are being nice to Erik.

    Well, we did do the nose
    …
    and the hat

  17. 17.

    Hugin & Munin

    August 4, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Corgifan: If you think that this is what left-of-center looks like, you have been smoking some bad granola. The Left, even the center-left, do not tend to rail at liberals.

  18. 18.

    jabuhrer

    August 4, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here

    A conservative is one thing, but, a libertarian?!?

  19. 19.

    schrodinger's cat

    August 4, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    @EconWatcher: I know what you mean, I have a loved one who is a cancer survivor.

  20. 20.

    Arclite

    August 4, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    I definitely don’t mind viewpoints different from my own, as long as the person defends their views with logic and hard data. It’s ad hominems, racism, sexism, dirty tricks, lies, and data from fantasyland that make me despise popular conservatives. May Lee Atwater rot in hell (although I’m glad he had a mea culpa at the end).

    I’m already willing to listen to Erik when he stated he was pro-life across the board. I may disagree, but I can respect the consistency and logic.

  21. 21.

    BGinCHI

    August 4, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    I’m glad Erik is blogging here, so that we can learn why government is bad. I’ll just say to him what I say to all Libertarians:

    Stay off our roads!

  22. 22.

    NobodySpecial

    August 4, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Aw, come on, Cole, we were good to him. He doesn’t even hardly SHOW the claw marks!

  23. 23.

    Svensker

    August 4, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    What’s with you and blowing air on your privates? And do we need to know about it? Are you in NJ? Because it is fuggin hot here. I may have to go on strike or something.

    Most hotels will give you basic toiletries free, if you’ve forgotten your own.

    How can we miss you if you won’t go away? But we do miss you already. Or at least I do — God knows I wouldn’t dare presume to speak for this buncha prima donnas.

    Erik seems like an ok guy. It’s hard for me to be too critical, having only recently come over from the dark side meself.

  24. 24.

    Tom Hilton

    August 4, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Remember, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a horrible person.

    A-motherfucking-men. And anyone who disagrees with this is, in fact, a horrible person.

  25. 25.

    Violet

    August 4, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Enjoy your break, John. It’s been a bit of a three ring circus here on Erik’s first day, but he was warned.

  26. 26.

    gwangung

    August 4, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    @Hugin & Munin:

    BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

    Son, how long have you been running in leftist circles???? Leftists, progressives, liberals, etc. are, contrary to rumor, humans. Humans will always take potshots at each other, even when they’re supposedly on the same side.

  27. 27.

    Cacti

    August 4, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    @Arclite:

    I’m already willing to listen to Erik when he stated he was pro-life across the board. I may disagree, but I can respect the consistency and logic.

    Really?

    When a self-described libertarian states their opposition to a woman’s autonomy over her own body (seemingly one of the most basic of rights) they’ve moved firmly into the glibertarian camp.

    Rights for me, not for thee.

  28. 28.

    Violet

    August 4, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    Stay off our roads!

    And please don’t bother the fire department if your house is burning down. Instead, please choose from among the in-network fire extinguisher providers on your fire insurance’s list. Please call for pre-approval if you need to use the fire-extinguisher’s services. Appointments can take up to four weeks, so please phone ahead.

  29. 29.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    August 4, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    @Hugin & Munin: Seconded.

    I had to laugh a little at everyone going off on “a conservative”. I think quite a few people here give conservative opinions all the time.

    Most blogs that would be called progressive or liberal or even Democratic don’t have “progressive” bandied about as a dirty word by so many people.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like this blog a lot, and there’s nothing wrong with anyone being conservative. Just saying though.

  30. 30.

    BombIranForChrist

    August 4, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    I don’t dislike conservatives. I dislike idiots. Or, more specifically, idiots who think they know how to run a country. If you’re an idiot and you’re just off in a corner trying to pull your pants off over your head, that’s fine.

    Are all conservatives idiots? Of course not. Because of that, I like some conservatives. There was even a time when I would vote for a Republican. Before they went CRAZY.

    So I guess that is another thing for me.

    I will be fine with you if you are not:

    1. Stupid; and
    2. Crazy; and
    3. Are not buying me drinks.

  31. 31.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    @Arclite:

    I can respect the consistency and logic.

    ummm there is no consistancy and logic…..only base pandering as i pointed out.
    Erik can write beautifully when he wants to…..sadly we have a Crazy Eddie Point between us……i think it is his responsibility to educate his base and call out the crazipants bullshytt memes they embrace (like the fetus=slave stuff), and he thinks its his responsibility to pander to them so that he doesn’t lose his influence with them when they gulag him for being a RINO.

  32. 32.

    Lev

    August 4, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    I think E.D. will be a good addition to the site. So much of what attracts me to this site is that it’s completely absent of the usual left-of-center bloggy bullshit. No longwinded explanations of why FDR is so much better than Obama ever will be, no interest in the daily bullshit media memes (unless it’s to debunk them), and no interest in the sort of “I’m the real progressive” posturing that I just can’t stand. Kain strikes me as a good fit along these lines (albeit from a different perspective), although that abortion-slavery comparison drove me a little crazy. I posted a lengthy rebuttal over at his True/Slant site some time ago.

  33. 33.

    Yutsano

    August 4, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    @gwangung: You know those people who you should just let keep talking? I think he falls under that category. Plus I’m thoroughly entertained.

    Just for your edification: pretty sure I’m gonna take a 1BR condo in Northgate, unless something else pops up. But the landlady runs a cupcake shop on Capitol Hill (the name is escaping me right now) so I’m thinking I’ll have to bite that apple.

  34. 34.

    BGinCHI

    August 4, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    @Violet:

    What’s the difference between a Libertarian and a teenager who lives with his parents?

  35. 35.

    Hugin & Munin

    August 4, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    @gwangung: Long enough to know that while liberals have just as many personality issues as any other group, but rarely decry liberals as a blanket statement. If you decry liberals and liberalism as general concept, you really aren’t as left as you think you are. I don’t know, maybe it’s about the negation of self.

    I also have been around long enough to know that there isn’t really a well defined left in this country.

  36. 36.

    Cacti

    August 4, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    @Violet:

    And please don’t bother the fire department if your house is burning down. Instead, please choose from among the in-network fire extinguisher providers on your fire insurance’s list. Please call for pre-approval if you need to use the fire-extinguisher’s services. Appointments can take up to four weeks, so please phone ahead.

    And if you get maimed by a defective consumer product, tough luck. Caveat Emptor.

  37. 37.

    BGinCHI

    August 4, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    @Cacti:

    Caveat Emptor.

    Isn’t that the GOP catchphrase?

  38. 38.

    Patty K

    August 4, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Frankly, this is a mistake, bringing on this “good” conservative. In the first place, there is no such thing. In the second place, they have all the MSM to spread their wares. I used to get up early enough to watch the Toady Show but once they took on Jenna Bush I can’t possibly tune in and run the possibility of watching her and now I feel absolutely vindicated in sleeping an hour later.

  39. 39.

    Violet

    August 4, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    @Arclite:

    I’m already willing to listen to Erik when he stated he was pro-life across the board.

    I admit I’m not up on Erik’s full set of beliefs re: abortion, although I’m gathering that he is against it. To him I pose the question I pose to anyone against abortion: Are you against it in all cases, even those in cases of rape, incest, life of the mother, etc.?

    If he (or any anti-abortion proponent) answers yes, that he is against it in every case, then I believe him that he is pro-life across the board. If he answers no to any of those, if there are exceptions, then he is not against it across the board, as he claims. He has his limits. He believes it’s acceptable sometimes. So then the matter becomes where the line is, not is abortion okay or not.

    This test is pretty simple to me. It seems it’s okay for many pro-lifers to agree that abortion is acceptable when the woman in question either didn’t choose to have teh s3x, like in rape and incest cases, or if the woman is going to die without one. But it’s not okay when the woman chose to have teh s3x.

    And then when you look at it like that, it’s a lot less about protecting those cells and a lot more about controlling women.

    But that’s just my take. And as I said, I don’t know how consistent Erik is, so I can’t make any comments on his personal pro-life consistency.

  40. 40.

    John S.

    August 4, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    But back to the point- let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here than Red State would be to a liberal.

    It has fuck all to do with Mr. Kain being a conservative, and everything with him making some pretty ridiculous statements. Granted, my disdain increased tremendously once his glibertarian streak was revealed, but that has a lot more to do with insanity masquerading as wisdom than with the label itself.

  41. 41.

    Ivan Ivanovich Renko

    August 4, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Meh. If he venerates the Confederacy in any motherfucking way, he can lick my salty chocolate balls.

    Absent that, sure, we can talk. But I hope he understands that this black Russian will long distrust movement conservatism.

    God, I hate those guys.

  42. 42.

    Mnemosyne

    August 4, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    @Lev:

    Yeah, I still don’t get how mandatory forced labor makes the laborer the equivalent of a slaveholder. Not to mention the whole part where the government is supposed to stay out of people’s lives and also monitor women’s uteri 24/7 to make sure they’re not up to anything naughty.

  43. 43.

    Mark S.

    August 4, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    I hope Erik writes a follow up on his affection for Gary Johnson. A lot of didn’t know who Johnson was, did a little research, and found out he was batshit insane. I would be interested in which parts of Johnson’s agenda he finds attractive.

    I mean, most of us here are down with legalizing pot. That doesn’t mean we’re down with going back to the gold standard.

  44. 44.

    kdaug

    August 4, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    You invited him into the snake pit, he accepted. No need to fluff his pillows on your way out – adapt or die.

  45. 45.

    Hugin & Munin

    August 4, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    @gwangung: Alternative response due to FYWP: I’m not speaking of personality issues between individuals, I am speaking of gross categorization. If you decry “liberals,” you are not really as left as you think you are. Pretty much everyone in the world understands that left and liberal are synonymous, as such things go. You can be a Democrat without being a liberal or on the left, but you can’t really be on the left and not be a liberal.

  46. 46.

    Cacti

    August 4, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    @Mark S.:

    Mussolini made the trains run on time.

    So if you opposed him, you supported tardy trains!

  47. 47.

    Violet

    August 4, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Urgh. Went to moderation. Will see if I can repost with a few spicy words changed.

    @Arclite:

    I’m already willing to listen to Erik when he stated he was pro-life across the board.

    I admit I’m not up on Erik’s full set of beliefs re: ab0rtion, although I’m gathering that he is against it. To him I pose the question I pose to anyone against ab0rtion: Are you against it in all cases, even those in cases of r a pe, in c est, life of the mother, etc.?

    If he (or any anti-ab0rtion proponent) answers yes, that he is against it in every case, then I believe him that he is pro-life across the board. If he answers no to any of those, if there are exceptions, then he is not against it across the board, as he claims. He has his limits. He believes it’s acceptable sometimes. So then the matter becomes where the line is, not is ab0rtion okay or not.

    This test is pretty simple to me. It seems it’s okay for many pro-lifers to agree that ab0rtion is acceptable when the woman in question either didn’t choose to have teh s3x, like in r ape and in cest cases, or if the woman is going to die without one. But it’s not okay when the woman chose to have teh s3x.

    And then when you look at it like that, it’s a lot less about protecting those cells and a lot more about controlling women.

    But that’s just my take. And as I said, I don’t know how consistent Erik is, so I can’t make any comments on his personal pro-life consistency.

  48. 48.

    BGinCHI

    August 4, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Giuliani’s daughter arrested for shoplifting:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/04/caroline-giuliani-arreste_n_671013.html

    Man, I can’t believe how much the tragedy of 9/11 is ripping apart that family.

  49. 49.

    Violet

    August 4, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    What’s the difference between a Libertarian and a teenager who lives with his parents?

    \
    A Libertarian lives in the basement.

  50. 50.

    Hugin & Munin

    August 4, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    @gwangung: Alternative response due to FYWP: I’m not speaking of personality issues between individuals, I am speaking of gross categorization. If you decry “liberals,” you are not really as left as you think you are. Pretty much everyone in the world understands that left and liberal are synonymous, as such things go. You can be a Democrat without being a liberal or on the left, but you can’t really be on the left and not be a liberal.

    Edited: Re-reposted because FYWP, again, that’s why!

  51. 51.

    jacy

    August 4, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    C’mon Cole, we know the real reason you left Kain in your stead, it was to distract us with something shiny so none of us could track you down and force you to have a beer with us.

    But apparently you don’t care, you with your fancy complimentary cocktails. Pshaw, I say. Pshaw.

  52. 52.

    Violet

    August 4, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    @BGinCHI:
    Family values!

  53. 53.

    BGinCHI

    August 4, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    @Violet:

    Yes.

    Also, too, the teenager scores chicks (or, in the alternate, dudes).

  54. 54.

    Jager

    August 4, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    @Svensker:

    During my single days I had a girlfriend who would adjust her cars air conditioning vent, (the one positioned on the lower dash just below the steering wheel) so it would blow up her skirt on hot, humid days. She’d pick me up at the airport, her skirt hiked up, air on full blast. I found it quite erotic. (She said all the girls did it.)

    John Cole, sans pants, sitting on a hotel air conditioner, not a tingle.

  55. 55.

    IndieTarheel

    August 4, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko:

    Meh. If he venerates the Confederacy in any motherfucking way, he can lick my salty chocolate balls.

    Needs more, um, organ.

  56. 56.

    EconWatcher

    August 4, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Someone needs to warn Kain, “Whatever you do, don’t mention Helen Thomas!” It’s like kryptonite to newbie front-pagers.

  57. 57.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    @Jager:

    She’d pick me up at the airport, her skirt hiked up, air on full blast. I found it quite erotic.

    I admit I don’t know much about you. But from your previous “she’s making eyes at me” post and now this I am convinced you used to spend a lot of time writing -fiction- Letters to The Editor of Penthouse.

  58. 58.

    Alice Blue

    August 4, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    I dunno, I’m not familiar with Mr. Kain, but I read his piece and he seems harmless enough. I don’t visualize him with a red face and bulging neck veins, crouched over a spittle flecked keyboard. But the heat index here is 101 and the humidity feels bad enough to be a Biblical plague, so I’m not really thinking straight.

  59. 59.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    I hope you all are being nice to Erik. Remember, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a horrible person. Unless you disagree with me, in which case you are both wrong and an asshole. But back to the point- let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here than Red State would be to a liberal.

    Oh trucknutz.

  60. 60.

    randiego

    August 4, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Fuck all conservatives. For all time.

  61. 61.

    stuckinred

    August 4, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    @martha: I have been sober for 17 years but a couple of years ago I was at a conference in Madison during the summer, sitting out there looking at the lake and watching big groups at the tables carrying on was one of the few times I felt a little twinge about not drinking. It passed,

  62. 62.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 4, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko:

    God, I hate those guys.

    Countersigned.

    Question: What do neo-confederates have in common the with Japanese?
    Answer: They both publish textbooks filled with lies about the war they got stomped in, and they both make Toyotas.

  63. 63.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    @BGinCHI: So how about this:

    A former Miss USA has been released from a Texas jail after she was accused of stealing almost $90 in merchandise from a Target department store in North Texas.

    Ex-Miss USA charged with shoplifting in Denton

    It’s like they all think they can just take whatever the F they want and get away with it. Mainly because I guess that seems pretty true.

  64. 64.

    Mark S.

    August 4, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    @Violet:

    I think the only word you used that trips the moderation is in cest.

    As for your main point, I just can’t understand how one can think the government regulating food safety is an intolerable infringement of FREEDOM! but the government forcing a woman to give birth isn’t. But then again, the only libertarian pro-lifers I’ve ever met have been men, so that might have something to do with it.

  65. 65.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    @Alice Blue: It’s the pablumesque banality of his bullshit that’s the problem.
    He’s a douthattian/brooksian lite-replica.

  66. 66.

    freelancer

    August 4, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Don’t steal from Target, kids. I used to work in AP before I got a better paying gig, and they’ve got more digital CCTV cameras than the whole of the UK.

  67. 67.

    KG

    August 4, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    To be fair, very, very few libertarians actually believe in privatizing roads or police/fire departments. There are some who do, and they are bat shit insane. But most of us believe in limiting government to effective purposes. I’ve got no problem with public schools, public hospitals, public roads or parks, or police and fire departments. Nor do I have a problem with most consumer protection laws.

    Then again, I’m the type of libertarian that also recognizes that markets, as institutions of man, are by no means perfect. Left unregulated, they lead to oligarchy; over regulated, they lead to wide ranging destitution. For me, libertarianism is a means of striking a balance between license and tyranny, what Hamilton would have called “ordered liberty.” So, yeah, Hamiltonian libertarian.

  68. 68.

    bago

    August 4, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Only the supreme arrogance of Senator Reid would believe that he has a divine right to rule over mere mortals by ramming through Obamacare, billions in reckless spending, and yes, buying cocaine for monkeys,” Agen said. “The fact is, Reid has acted like he’s all-powerful and accountable to no one. People are frustrated because, like Sharron, they understand Washington has become a giant, unseen, omnipotent force whose presence is felt in all our lives whether we like it or not.

    It’s gotta be fun working for Sharron Angle.

  69. 69.

    MikeJ

    August 4, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    @Corner Stone: I have to admit, I’m not unhappy with people refusing to give money to Target. It would be a more ethically sound protest to not take the merchandise however.

  70. 70.

    srv

    August 4, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Hey, I think John is in SF, or coming to SF. From his twitter:

    #@JonHenke JUst booked a hotel in San Fran- even with convention rate, 200 a night is still shocking.
    5:47 PM Aug 1st via TweetDeck in reply to JonHenke

    Release the hounds!

  71. 71.

    You Don't Say

    August 4, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    John, question: How did you find your house-sitter? I need one (have a dog with separation anxiety so important person is super-responsible) and not sure whether to try to impose on a friend or hire someone, and if I hire someone how to find them other than through recommendations from others. TIA.

  72. 72.

    Bella Q

    August 4, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @Svensker: You may speak for me as long as you do so with your previously demonstrated etymological purity. I still prefer to think of “presently” as meaning in a bit, as opposed to at the present time, so that tells you how archaic my taste is.

  73. 73.

    Yutsano

    August 4, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @KG: So in other words you’re not getting an invitation to the next barbecue. I’ve tended to note that libertarians are rather rigid in their beliefs, and if you don’t conform you aren’t “true to their cause” or something.

  74. 74.

    KG

    August 4, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @bago: I do have to kind of agree with Agen on that, though… how dare Ried buy cocaine for monkeys and not for the rest of us?

  75. 75.

    KG

    August 4, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    @Yutsano: yeah, they can be, especially those deep into the woods of the Libertarian Party. Big-L Libertarians tend to be much more rigid, as you say.

  76. 76.

    Arclite

    August 4, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    @Cacti: I’m in your camp, but if someone truly believes abortion is murder, I can’t even start to have a conversation if they also support the death penalty. You either believe in the sanctity of life, or you don’t. And if your ideology is so arbitrary and inconsistent as to oppose abortion but support the death penalty, what’s the point of even attempting a conversation.

  77. 77.

    Jager

    August 4, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Naw, sometimes its just the little moments that make life worth living like a little flirting at Trader Joes or cool air up a skirt.

  78. 78.

    Chat Noir

    August 4, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    @Jager: LOL.

  79. 79.

    geg6

    August 4, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Damn, Cole, you had to put that picture of your schwetty balls into my brain, didn’t you? Fuck. First you saddle me with a new frontpager who turns out to be a goddam libertarian nutjob. Then you tell me I have to be nice to him when my usual reaction to anything or anyone of that ilk is to point, laugh, and then ask when they’re going to outgrow believing in fairy tales. And now your sweat soaked testes. Fuck.

    I really am curiou about something, though. Steve Benen told me today that Michael Steele is sending GOP National Committe letters requesting meetings with foreign ambassadors to the US to discuss the party’s election strategy and issues for 2010. This seems like something rather unprecedented in all of American history, not to mention pretty useless since they can’t vote, endorse, or contribute to any candidates in a US election. So can someone please explain what the fuck he thinks he’s doing here? Perhaps our “sane conservative” might be able to explain what looks to me to be something pretty high up on the crazy scale, if not borderline illegal.

    Oh, and if you want to watch a great doc on what true fucks anti-choicers are, I highly recommend “12th and Delaware” now playing on HBO and OnDemand. That tight assed beyotch who runs the Christanist fake abortion clinic across the street from the real one needs to either get laid (though who would stoop that low?) or stomped to death for being a lying, deceitful piece of shit.

  80. 80.

    stuckinred

    August 4, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    @Arclite: What if they believe in arclites?

  81. 81.

    Arclite

    August 4, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    @Violet:

    Are you against it in all cases, even those in cases of r a pe, in c est, life of the mother, etc.?

    Good point.

  82. 82.

    Yutsano

    August 4, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    @KG: Meh. Wake me when Reid is financing the sniper monkeys in Afghanistan. That still makes me giggle. Or despair, since folks still take Fox News seriously after they admitted they pretty much just make up shit.

  83. 83.

    JGabriel

    August 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    I hope you all are being nice to Erik.

    Uh oh. Dad’s gonna be so mad when he finds out…

    .

  84. 84.

    freelancer

    August 4, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    @JGabriel:

    Don’t tell Mom Cole, the babysitter front-pager is dead.

  85. 85.

    KG

    August 4, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    @Arclite: the argument I’ve heard, and that I think is relatively valid, is that someone convicted of a capital crime has intentionally acted in a way that he/she knew would result in possibly losing his/her own life. On the other hand, an unborn child (and that is almost always the term used) is innocent in the sense that he/she has done nothing to warrant being put to death.

    I don’t buy it because I think the question of what actually constitutes human life is a bit more complicated than that.

    I’m pro-choice as a matter of policy (I think making it illegal is foolish and accomplishes nothing); but do believe we’d be better off if we lived in a world where there was never the need for abortion. Which, by the way, is where I think the sides could find some common grounds.

    For the record, I also oppose the death penalty as a matter of policy. It’s constitutional, but it is also a remnant of a time when justice was confused with retribution or revenge.

  86. 86.

    QuaintIrene

    August 4, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    I’ve wanted to ask before, but felt it’s none of my business. But, heck, now I will. What does John do for a living?

  87. 87.

    stuckinred

    August 4, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    @QuaintIrene: He’s a mutt collector.

  88. 88.

    jacy

    August 4, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    @You Don’t Say:

    I would recommend hiring a pet sitter if you don’t have someone who’s is intimately familiar with your situation and who you trust implicitly.

    If hiring one, a good place to start is asking your vet who they recommend, and then make sure they’re insured, bonded, and have a good reputation. Don’t be afraid to ask for references and then follow up on said references.

  89. 89.

    freelancer

    August 4, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    @stuckinred:

    No, you’re way off. He’s a janitorial nudist.

  90. 90.

    Chat Noir

    August 4, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    @geg6: I remember watching George Carlin in “Carlin at Carnegie Hall” and he opened the show by saying, “Do you ever notice that women who are against abortion are women you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place?” I think it first aired on HBO in 1982 but that line always stuck with me. The rest of the show was pretty hilarious as well.

  91. 91.

    Mark S.

    August 4, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    @geg6:

    Steve Benen told me today that Michael Steele is sending GOP National Committe letters requesting meetings with foreign ambassadors to the US to discuss the party’s election strategy and issues for 2010.

    2 things I loved about this story:

    1) Michael Steele apparently trusts these sorts of high level solicitations to one of his interns, and

    2) His intern can’t even spell his boss’ name right.

  92. 92.

    KG

    August 4, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    @Mark S.: um, how is that appropriate in any sense of anything? A political operative from the minority party – not an elected official of any sort – seeking court with foreign ambassadors? That can’t be right.

  93. 93.

    Mark S.

    August 4, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    @QuaintIrene:

    Things John doesn’t mind telling us:

    1) he likes mopping in the nude
    2) his balls sweat a lot

    Things John keeps secret:

    1) what he looks like
    2) what he does for a living

  94. 94.

    Arclite

    August 4, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    @KG:

    but do believe we’d be better off if we lived in a world where there was never the need for abortion. Which, by the way, is where I think the sides could find some common grounds.

    Great post KG. I agree.

  95. 95.

    mai naem

    August 4, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    @QuaintIrene: He’s a secret agent man. That’s the real reason he never shows us his picture.

  96. 96.

    freelancer

    August 4, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    @mai naem:

    He’s a secret agent man. That’s the real reason he never shows us his picture.

    What kind of secret agent gets stranded (due to paralytic acrophobia) on his own roof ?

  97. 97.

    JGabriel

    August 4, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    @srv:

    Hey, I think John is in SF, or coming to SF.

    Quick! Someone force-buy him a beer and ram that cold golden alcoholy liquid down his throat!

    .

  98. 98.

    srv

    August 4, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    @QuaintIrene:

    I’ve wanted to ask before, but felt it’s none of my business. But, heck, now I will. What does John do for a living?

    He’s a freaking democrat, what do you think they do? Probably unemployed and collecting his unemployment while using welfare checks and food stamps he got under his pet’s names to galavant around the country recruiting more people to do his postings for him.

  99. 99.

    Mnemosyne

    August 4, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    @KG:

    I’m pro-choice as a matter of policy (I think making it illegal is foolish and accomplishes nothing); but do believe we’d be better off if we lived in a world where there was never the need for abortion.

    If you can figure out a way to cure, say, trisomy defects in utero, I’m all ears. Until that point, we will always need abortion.

  100. 100.

    srv

    August 4, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    @mai naem: I’ve seen a picture of him. It can be found with intelligent searching of an unmentioned social network site. He could pass as big-boned and not really fat if that’s still current.

  101. 101.

    khead

    August 4, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Bear-Bear was the first story on WBALtv 5 PM news.

  102. 102.

    Restrung

    August 4, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    @freelancer:
    I thought that was due to a lost ladder.
    Oh, wait, that’s what he wants us to think. hmm..

    eta: apparently I know more about “John Cole” than I know about my neighbors. They’re just first names, but they’d help me if I was stuck on the roof. ?
    eta again: they’re not in my computer, so fuggem.

  103. 103.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    Will someone PLEASE, for the love of all that’s HOLY tell these people to not semi-swivel in their dam nchair while they are being interviewed on TV.
    Jeebus people. You look like a little girl on “Kids say the darndest things”.
    You’ve argued before the SC 28 times! Just sit there and look forward!

  104. 104.

    You Don't Say

    August 4, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    @jacy: Good advice. Thanks.

  105. 105.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 4, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    @freelancer: You have to live your cover. Basic tradecraft.

  106. 106.

    geg6

    August 4, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    @QuaintIrene:

    I don’t actually know for sure, but rumor has it that he might make his living teaching people how to communicate at a major university in his fair state. In other words, he’s an effete, pointy-headed, elitist egghead.

    But that’s just a rumor. Can’t say for sure.

  107. 107.

    MikeJ

    August 4, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    You’ve argued before the SC 28 times! Just sit there and look forward!

    Damn, my blackouts must be getting longer.

  108. 108.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    You have to live your cover. Basic tradecraft.

    I’ve always understood the best cover was if you could get everyone to think, “Him? No. he’s too stupid to be a spy.”
    Sounds like Cole has it nailed.

  109. 109.

    demo woman

    August 4, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    @geg6: We do know that the egghead part is true though.

  110. 110.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    @MikeJ: Svensker has her pet peeves and I have mine.
    And one thing I will not abide is someone who sways while being interviewed. You better have a damn hurricane making landfall.

  111. 111.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    @Hugin & Munin:

    If you decry “liberals,” you are not really as left as you think you are.

    Except that there’s a whole other faction that consistently derides “liberals” too, and that’s the hard left, who find self-avowed liberals and progressives to have insufficient revolutionary zeal.

    I don’t think “liberal” has been particularly an epithet around here; more commonly there’s meta-snark about “hippies” because people like Atrios adopted the “hippie-punching” phrase to connote centrist demonization of those to their left.

    But around here, to the degree that there’s criticism of “liberals,” IMHO it shouldn’t be mistaken for criticism of liberals by centrists; instead it’s criticism by liberals of those who position themselves as better, purer, liberal-er liberals.

    By and large the people who post here have extremely similar ideals and ideologies; most of the long-running disputes take place about tactics, such as the degree to which the presence of Blue Dogs and/or red-state Democrats constrains, or ought to constrain, the effort to accomplish liberal social policy.

  112. 112.

    MikeJ

    August 4, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    @Corner Stone: I have a whole peeve menagerie of my own. I was merely making fun of the unreferenced “you” coming from someone not Jay McInerney.

  113. 113.

    demo woman

    August 4, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    OT..Is there anyone from Kentucky that’s paying attention to the extortion trial against Sypher? Rick Pitino might be a decent college coach but he was terrible coaching in the NBA.

  114. 114.

    mai naem

    August 4, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    @freelancer: Hey, J Edgar Hoover was kind of a secret agent man and he was gay. In the 60s. Also too, Monk has OCD and he’s a top detective. I mean, like, I know that’s teevee but the republicans have been basing their National Security policy on “24” so I can compare Cole to Monk.

  115. 115.

    Kered (formerly Derek)

    August 4, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Dude, fuck Singha unless they don’t have Budweiser. Chinese and Thai beers taste exactly like Budweiser, but are like a dollar more.

  116. 116.

    Svensker

    August 4, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    @Jager:

    John Cole, sans pants, sitting on a hotel air conditioner, not a tingle.

    What about while nude mopping? Any tingles there?

    Speaking of tingles, I gotta go shed clothes and lie down in the a/c. Thinking of doing what one of my old friends used to do in her non-a/c’d Jersey City railroad flat — put on a light cotton nightgown, go stand in the shower and get all wet, then lie down on clean sheets with a fan blowing on the cool dampness. Sounds erotic, dunnit? But it’s too hot for erotic.

    Oh, and can we do a Sully and try to guess where John is? Cheap Laotian food and a couple of airplanes to get there?– I’m guessing Kingston, Ontario.

  117. 117.

    Jager

    August 4, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Mr. Cole, I’m sure when you were doing those hot, sweaty forced “hikes” in the Army, you took your good Sgt’s advice and unbuttoned your fly along with pulling your pants out of your boots and your shirt out of your pants. I remember Sgt Manley, telling us “unbutton them flies, your balls will thank you for it”! It worked even better when going “commando” later in my US Army experience.

  118. 118.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    But around here, to the degree that there’s criticism of “liberals,” IMHO it shouldn’t be mistaken for criticism of liberals by centrists; instead it’s criticism by liberals of those who position themselves as better, purer, liberal-er liberals.

    I disagree with you here.
    There’s a cadre of decidedly center/center-right people who have taken on the moniker of liberal. They spend an inordinate amount of time jabbing the stick to the left in an attempt to deride people who are by all demonstrative measures “more left”.
    IMO, it is quite clear BJ is home to a number of very conservative people. And while they can call themselves whatever they like, the most concentrated amount of fire is directed to the left edge of commenters here.

  119. 119.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    @Svensker:

    put on a light cotton nightgown, go stand in the shower and get all wet, then lie down on clean sheets with a fan blowing on the cool dampness.

    I shutter at the thought.

  120. 120.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    August 4, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: No, “progressives” are who are demonized here often, and not by other progressives, or liberals, if you ask me.

    You may have just missed it but it would sort of hard to.

    I don’t think it’s as like-minded as you seem to think.

  121. 121.

    Jager

    August 4, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    @Svensker:

    I’m just not that kind of guy!

    In college I had an apartment with windows on one side. No a/c and it was across from another dump and we couldn’t get a breath of air. My roomates were gone for the weekend and my girlfriend and I were going to play house, the kissy face started and and at the exact same moment we pulled back and said its too damn hot for this! Wish I’d have known about the wet nightgown trick though…wow!

  122. 122.

    Cain

    August 4, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    He must be in SF considering he went to a laotian restaurant. I don’t think he’s in real murrika. He’s in the land of…. The Ghey!

    cain

  123. 123.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    @KG:

    we’d be better off if we lived in a world where there was never the need for abortion.

    we will be in that world within the next decade. we will be buyin’ bene tleilax host wombs from the japanese. they have been doing full term goat emybryos since 1999. Full term human ectogenesis. unfortunately it will be verry expensive at first, but it is an excellent opportunity for all that good xian charity we have been hearing about! just think E.D. and his churchmates can adopt late term genetic anomalies and give them good christian homes!
    Sweet!

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    @Cain:

    He must be in SF considering he went to a laotian restaurant. I don’t think he’s in real murrika. He’s in the land of…. The Ghey!

    And don’t let him fool you with BS talk about attending a “convention”.
    The “particulars” he’s airing out are the tux and cummerbund he picked up at the rental place on his way into the city.

  125. 125.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Oh and one way Kain will fit right in here…..he is allus tellin’ meh to grow up.
    The perfect conservative accessory for the “get off our lawn!” crowd.

  126. 126.

    gwangung

    August 4, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    @Corner Stone: In other words, you’re playing “more progressive than thou.”

    (Note, too, a great deal of the disagreement is over tactics, not strategy; too many people view tactics as inherently progressive or conservative, which is poppycock in my book).

  127. 127.

    Nixon

    August 4, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Dear John Cole,

    First of all, I hope you indeed do read this and not one of the other posters on your blog as this is intended for you.

    Secondly, thanks for all your energies & efforts. Blogging must be very time consuming.

    Forgive me, I’m relatively new to reading your blog and, from what I’ve gathered so far, I believe that you’re a reformed conservative. Regardless, I MUST take issue with this post and some of the thinking around it.

    “Because I am not paying for it, the thermostat is on 60…” First graf, third sentence.

    Well, I guess you’re not paying for it if this is a monetary-based statement; however, if this were an energy-based statement, it would be false as we’re all paying for it.

    It pains me to see this type of thinking so prevalent. Why do you think BP was drilling Deepwater Horizon in 5,000 feet of water? Because all the easily accessible oil had already been tapped. It’s this type of monetary thinking that doesn’t take into account the true cost of energy.

    Reformed conservative or not, viewing the world in a way that only takes into account a personal, monetary expense is selfish and short-sighted. It’s this type of careless & undisciplined thinking that results in oil wars.

    There were already 116 cute comments to this post when I started my reply and, although I only skimmed, I didn’t see anyone else bring up this point. Sad that folks in the US have been so indoctrinated that they oblivious to their own actions anymore.

    I really don’t think I need to write anymore as I’m confident you understand my point.

  128. 128.

    demo woman

    August 4, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    @matoko_chan: Did you see Revolutionary Road? Talk about the good old days.

  129. 129.

    John Cole

    August 4, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    ohferfucksake. One of these threads. In order

    A.) I teach. I don’t say where or what because as it is, even without ever talking about it, any time I write about Israel I have assholes emailing my boss. I’d prefer we stop the guessing games, because this blog and my job have nothing to do with each other and I try to keep it that way.

    B.) I’m in Madison for a convention on distance learning. I ate at Lao Lian-Xang. It is in the DFH portion of town. How do I know that? The people walking around with American Spirit cigarettes and C-Span carrying bags.

    C.) @srv: The picture is way out of date. I’m full fledged fat.

  130. 130.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 4, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Fabulous Beekman Boys comes on in 10 minutes. Are you in upstate NY John? I could go for some of their cheese.

  131. 131.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    @gwangung: I see disagreements over tactics. I also see some disagreements over priorities. Person X places Goal A at #1 and Goal B at #4 while Person Y does the opposite. Depending on how wedded one is to those priorities, it can seem like others don’t share one’s goals. I would guess though that for most people around BJ the top 10 priorities are fairly similar and are left of center (or liberal).

  132. 132.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 4, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Oh, nevermind. I’ll just order it off the internet.

  133. 133.

    Gordon, The Big Express Engine

    August 4, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Cole is at some kind of resort. He’s hitting the 5-6pm gratis happy hour and then he has to hit up the resort store for his toiletires. I am guessing he got a good deal at some place on the Gulf Coast. OR maybe he is at the Greenbrier and the reference to the “bunker” is our clue… He could be saying he flew there to throw us off the scent!

  134. 134.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    There’s a cadre of decidedly center/center-right people who have taken on the moniker of liberal. They spend an inordinate amount of time jabbing the stick to the left in an attempt to deride people who are by all demonstrative measures “more left”.

    To the degree that that happens, it is IMHO an internecine struggle between liberals. The debates are always about how to put liberalism into practice as law and policy. And I don’t think that it’s “more left” to want to see more fighting and less compromise, which is a particular bone of contention. Someone like David Sirota or Glenn Greenwald isn’t really that far to the left ideologically, but they definitely favor politicians who take more of a oppositional approach to policy. There are two distinct spectrums: there’s a left-right one and an confront-compromise one; not all confronters are lefties, and not all compromisers are righties.

  135. 135.

    Gordon, The Big Express Engine

    August 4, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    @Gordon, The Big Express Engine: should have read #129!

  136. 136.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    @gwangung:

    Note, too, a great deal of the disagreement is over tactics, not strategy; too many people view tactics as inherently progressive or conservative, which is poppycock in my book

    Well put.

  137. 137.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    @gwangung:

    In other words, you’re playing “more progressive than thou.”
    __
    (Note, too, a great deal of the disagreement is over tactics, not strategy; too many people view tactics as inherently progressive or conservative, which is poppycock in my book).

    Nope. That’s an auto reflex by the exact kind of very conservative bent people I expect.
    Don’t play silly buggers with me. There are people who comment here who are with no doubt center/center-right. “Pragmatists” if you want to call them that. “Authoritarians” if you want to call them that.
    This isn’t about one-upmanship. Your response is another way to cloud over what is being discussed.
    I suggest that if you can’t admit some people here do actually fall into distinct persuasions then it is you who are positing poppycock.

  138. 138.

    jeffreyw

    August 4, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Thread needs moar puppies.

  139. 139.

    General Stuck

    August 4, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    @gwangung:

    In other words, you’re playing “more progressive than thou.”

    Corner Stone is so progressive he started hating Obama from the git go in the primary. He hated him after his nomination, and kept on hating him during his campaign against Mccain, then after he became POTUS that hatred intensified to what it is today.

    He has never approved of a single thing Obama has done. But if Hillary had done the same things, they likely would have been hunky dory. IOW’s he is a conceited wanker. As for people who “demonize” “progressives” on this blog. That is laughable. First confusing mocking with demonizing and second for claiming the mantle of progressive when they are anything but.

  140. 140.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    August 4, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    John, who fucking cares what you look like? Your feet are pretty and your sinus passage practically sparkle after a neti bath. You gotta take your victories where you can get ’em.

  141. 141.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    @John Cole: Welcome to Mad-Town. Try Bandung for Indonesian.

    Also, you should hit the Old Fashioned on Capitol Square.

  142. 142.

    Maxwell James

    August 4, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    As a mostly-lurker here, I’ll echo the above approvals about not letting this place become an echo chamber. Kain is always an interesting writer, and is scrupulously polite even in disagreement.

  143. 143.

    debit

    August 4, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    @jeffreyw: I’ve said it before; it’s a good thing I’m nowhere near that shelter. I’d be up to my eyeballs in animals.

    @General Stuck: I hate it when you guys fight. Seriously. It’s not the disagreements; it’s how it gets personal.

  144. 144.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    No, “progressives” are who are demonized here often, and not by other progressives, or liberals, if you ask me.

    But I think it’s implicitly in quotes: i.e., “you may call yourself a ‘progressive,’ but how do you expect to see that progress happen in practical terms?” Even at its harshest, it’s rarely “your notions of progress are stupid.”

    (Frankly, it’s usually the same fight over and over again: “Why don’t Democrats fight harder? It pisses me off” vs. “How are they going to get the votes? They’re doing the best they can.” From there the first person says, “That makes you an apologist for failure” and the second person says, “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.” Et cetera, et cetera, and so forth.)

  145. 145.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: IMO this is a bogus formulation.
    Some people somehow believe that confrontation is what is desired. Well, let me tell you that IMO that’s BS.
    I don’t give a good GD if our D Senators shake their fists in the face of the R’s. I want legislation and policy that is going to help people and secondarily support and propagate liberal ideals and goals.
    The issue becomes when the outcome is less than desired among certain groups, but somehow just a-ok with others.
    The tactics aren’t the problem, it’s the overall level of acceptance of less than clear policy outcomes based on, for lack of a better word, “pragmatism” or going along to get along.
    Some people have decided that a distinct group of people on the left have the wrong “tactics” and that’s what the issue is.
    It’s a great distraction but it begs the question that is not being answered.

  146. 146.

    Mark S.

    August 4, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    @Nixon:

    Jesus, John, Milhous is right: You’re the worst person since Hitler.

  147. 147.

    General Stuck

    August 4, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    @Maxwell James:

    Kain is always an interesting writer, and is scrupulously polite even in disagreement.

    From what I can tell, I would tend to agree. He will have to defend his beliefs however, and that will not be easy, I suspect. I can be a nasty motherfucker, but usually toward people who are also that way. I am impressed by respect and politeness and most of the time return what’s sent my way. But at some point, I reserve the right to tell someone they are full of shit, in a polite way, of course.

  148. 148.

    demo woman

    August 4, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    @John Cole: Some of us really don’t care where you are. We just hope that you have a good time. How many times have you called home to check on the pups?

  149. 149.

    Origuy

    August 4, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    John, you were looking for aurora photos. Spaceweather.com is the place to go for those. Although some of them are from Wisconsin, so if you can get away from city lights, you might be able to see the aurora for yourself.

  150. 150.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    That’s an auto reflex by the exact kind of very conservative bent people I expect.

    Well, yours is also an automatic reflex, which is assuming that a disagreement about what is possible can be reduced into a disagreement about what is good.

  151. 151.

    General Stuck

    August 4, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    @debit:

    It’s not the disagreements; it’s how it gets personal.

    I don’t like that either, and will just say sometimes it is necessary when confronting certain people. This was started back during the primary and not by me.

  152. 152.

    JGabriel

    August 4, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    And for the President’s birthday…CNN (via Wonkette):

    According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey, more than a quarter of the public have doubts about Obama’s citizenship, with 11 percent saying Obama was definitely not born in the United States and another 16 percent saying the president was probably not born in the country.

    11% + 16% = 27%

    There it is again: 27%. John Rogers is a fucking genius, I swear.

    .

  153. 153.

    mr. whipple

    August 4, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    The tactics aren’t the problem, it’s the overall level of acceptance of less than clear policy outcomes based on, for lack of a better word, “pragmatism” or going along to get along.

    Are you saying pragmatism and ‘going along to get along’ are the same? Do you honestly believe that some people are fairly satisfied with Obama/dems because they are ‘going along to get along’?

  154. 154.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Well, yours is also an automatic reflex, which is assuming that a disagreement about what is possible can be reduced into a disagreement about what is good.

    I’m not sure this even makes sense in any literal way.
    This is the same old enemyperfectgood argument.

  155. 155.

    demkat620

    August 4, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Geez, I go awol for a couple of days and John is naked with a 70 dollar toothbrush and a guy named Erik is posting here.

    WTF?

    Also, too don’t look now JenJen but my Phils are back from the dead.

  156. 156.

    Starfish

    August 4, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    This sucks more than Republicans.

  157. 157.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    @mr. whipple: Yes. Isn’t that obvious?
    What is the dominant thread of the self identified D’s on this blog?
    It’s that D’s are weak, they are pu$$ies.
    And a majority of the time it’s by people who would admit to being very centrist D’s. They are tired of the pre-compromise and other “tactics”.

    Doesn’t that tell you something?

  158. 158.

    Restrung

    August 4, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    I’m in the DFH portion of town

    In Madison. sweet.

  159. 159.

    mr. whipple

    August 4, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Yes. Isn’t that obvious?

    No.

    It’s that D’s are weak, they are pu$$ies.

    People that say that are buying into RW frames, imo.

    They are tired of the pre-compromise and other “tactics”.

    What is ‘pre-compromise’?

  160. 160.

    srv

    August 4, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    ok, so he’s not in SF yet, but he’s made a hotel reservation. I won’t be here most of the next two months, so somebody stalk him for that trip.

    Corner Stone, I think you just need to come up with a handle for the mainstream “liberals” of Balloon-Juice. Is there a French word for Whole Foods Arugula-eating surrender monkeys?

  161. 161.

    MikeJ

    August 4, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    @mr. whipple:

    What is ‘pre-compromise’?

    Not demanding ponies.

  162. 162.

    jeffreyw

    August 4, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Who was it the other day goin onanon about dried tomatoes?

    Ok, now what?

  163. 163.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Doesn’t that tell you something?

    Not really. I really don’t see a large number of people commenting here who identify as centrist. Pragmatist =/= Centrist.

  164. 164.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    oh for fucks sake.
    i have do everything my bigself.
    here is a good exemplar of Kain’s writing.
    Glenn Beck and the Red Knight
    i didnt want to post the link, because of my comment on thread.
    i was…w…wr….wrr……wrong!
    i thought FOXnews couldn’t afford Beck to be its face….wat a retard.
    /runs away fast

  165. 165.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    @srv:

    Corner Stone, I think you just need to come up with a handle for the mainstream “liberals” of Balloon-Juice. Is there a French word for Whole Foods Arugula-eating surrender monkeys?

    les anciennes

  166. 166.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I want legislation and policy that is going to help people and secondarily support and propagate liberal ideals and goals.

    Well, I mean, everybody here wants that. The fundamental divide is over what to do when you don’t get 100% of what you want. If you’re selling something and no one is offering full price, what do you do? How long do you hold out? What result will make you feel satisfied? 90%? 50%? I don’t think the answers are a very reliable index for what would be more “liberal.”

    Personally, I think I’m ideologically very liberal (probably practically soc1alist) but temperamentally extremely risk-averse, so I generally want to see Democrats take the best offer and move on. So around here I tend to end up on the “pragmatist” side vis-a-vis Democrats and Obama, but it’s not like I think what the Democrats are actually accomplishing is ushering in Liberal Utopia.

  167. 167.

    debit

    August 4, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    I got nothing but pet pictures. Chloe has slimed her chair but good. Luther ponders doing unseemly things to my garden sandals.

  168. 168.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Personally, I think I’m ideologically very liberal (probably practically soc1alist) but temperamentally extremely risk-averse, so I generally want to see Democrats take the best offer and move on. So around here I tend to end up on the “pragmatist” side vis-a-vis Democrats and Obama, but it’s not like I think what the Democrats are actually accomplishing is ushering in Liberal Utopia.

    Why are you in my brain?

  169. 169.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 4, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus #14:

    *Also, hard liquor is poured with a very heavy hand here so it makes up for a lot. ETA: What is wrong with my typing today?*

    Asked and answered.

  170. 170.

    demo woman

    August 4, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    @debit: Chloe looks so comfy.

  171. 171.

    mr. whipple

    August 4, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Personally, I think I’m ideologically very liberal (probably practically soc1alist) but temperamentally extremely risk-averse, so I generally want to see Democrats take the best offer and move on.

    We sound the same, but I don’t feel I’m risk adverse.

    The way I see it, progressive(and I hate that word)/liberal goals are like a marathon. Maybe even a marathon wherein the distance of 26 miles keeps getting elongated perpetually. The gun doesn’t go off, and you blink, and you’ve reached the finish line. It’s a long, hard slog. When you hit a mile, you don’t say you’ll never reach the end and quit, you don’t whine, you don’t say you are far from the finish. You instead celebrate you’re 1/26th of the way there and keep moving.

    Sorry for the bad sports analogy.

  172. 172.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: And yet I am dead sober; I need to pick my wife up at the airport in a couple of hours.

  173. 173.

    burnspbesq

    August 4, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    @Arclite:

    Seriously? You’re not trying. Reconciling opposition to abortion and support for the death penalty is trivially easy. Note that the following is a thought experiment only, and does not reflect my actual views.

    All human life, actual and potential, is PRESUMPTIVELY sacred and deserving of protection. However, there are certain crimes that are so heinous that the presumption is overcome, and the people acting through their representatives can impose the ultimate sanction for such crimes.

    See how easy that was?

  174. 174.

    debit

    August 4, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    @demo woman: As well she should. That brown stain is from where she props a rawhide chew to gnaw on. After the first one, I proclaimed it her chair forever and ever.

  175. 175.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 4, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    What is the dominant thread of the self identified D’s on this blog?
    __
    It’s that D’s are weak, they are pu$$ies.

    It’s true that that’s said a lot, but IMHO that’s another tactics-vs.-ideology misjudgment. Are the Democrats still “weak” for “compromising” if the compromise gets them to the magic 60 Senate votes that toggles the switch on? Would it be less “weak” to refuse to “compromise” even if that prevents the switch from toggling on? I think it’s a genuinely difficult decision. And it’s _not_ the same as left vs. right.

  176. 176.

    Greenhouse Guy

    August 4, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Mad-town!

    dood…Echo Tap (if it’s still there) was fun. Hell the whole scene there is cool. (now in La Crosse, WI)

  177. 177.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    @MikeJ:

    Not demanding ponies.

    Thank you very much for perfectly demonstrating what I am referring to.
    I appreciate your help.

  178. 178.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    @Greenhouse Guy: Keep him away from the Echo Tap; it’s only a block from my place and I don’t need a drunk guy on my couch over night.

  179. 179.

    MikeJ

    August 4, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    @burnspbesq: The form of argument Arclite employs here always annoys me. Complaining that others are insufficiently fundamentalist is almost always stupid, whether it’s complaining that someone who wears poly-cotton blends isn’t really a xtian or saying Al Gore’s security detail proves he isn’t really a liberal.

  180. 180.

    srv

    August 4, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    @Nixon: @matoko_chan: I’m thinking something more like Stuck-ians would be more apropos here. How would you properly say Écouter-ites?

  181. 181.

    Corner Stone

    August 4, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    @srv: Hmmm…”Cole’s base”?
    Wait, that’s not French.

  182. 182.

    Greenhouse Guy

    August 4, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Does the Echo still have that incredibly fun shuffle puck board (whatever the it’s called)?

  183. 183.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 4, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    @Greenhouse Guy: Air hockey? Actually, I don’t go in all that often, so I don’t know.

  184. 184.

    Lee Hartmann

    August 4, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    enjoy wherever you have taken your talents.

  185. 185.

    matoko_chan

    August 4, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    @srv: lets call them what they are…..les tetes du merde.

  186. 186.

    Greenhouse Guy

    August 4, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Nah, not air hockey. You’d spread a salt/sand mixture over a 12×3 foot or so table. But it was a slow paced/non hyper/good drinking game for 20ish folks.

  187. 187.

    Kristine

    August 4, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    @martha: Love Madison. Love State Street. Love the Terrace.

  188. 188.

    ksmiami

    August 4, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Hola paco – you really need to order a mojito… Also, for a nice dinner on Lincoln Road, MeatMarket is amazing

  189. 189.

    Batocchio

    August 4, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    let’s try to be a little more open-minded to a conservative posting here than Red State would be to a liberal.

    Oh, jeez, where’s the fun in that?

    Okay, fine, Thanksgiving rules apply. As long as Uncle Billy doesn’t get drunk and start spouting bigoted crap, we’ll try the civil approach first. But show yer work, conservatives!

  190. 190.

    Steeplejack

    August 4, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    I love Singha beer. Wish I could find it in the grocery store here.

    And, no, I don’t care how crappy it is or what is in it. I just like it. Goes well with Asian food. ‘Nuff said.

  191. 191.

    tomvox1

    August 4, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    John, luv ya dude, but reality has a liberal/progressive bent.
    Kain is going DOWN.
    Better stock up on Singhas.
    :)

  192. 192.

    General Stuck

    August 4, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    @srv:

    I’m thinking something more like Stuck-ians would be more apropos here

    You get no points for flattery. Well, maybe one.

  193. 193.

    lawnorder

    August 4, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Dougj spilled the beans on the next thread. South Beach is fun and they must be ecstatic there now that prop 8 has fallen. Is not a “gay neighborhood” but does have a lot of gays, so I imagine today is party time.

  194. 194.

    Steeplejack

    August 4, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    @mai naem:

    Did you say “secret agent man”? Yes. Yes, he is.

  195. 195.

    Dr. Morpheus

    August 5, 2010 at 12:55 am

    @Hugin & Munin:

    but you can’t really be on the left and not be a liberal.

    Really? What about Communists?

  196. 196.

    Dr. Morpheus

    August 5, 2010 at 1:04 am

    @freelancer:

    What kind of secret agent gets stranded (due to paralytic acrophobia) on his own roof ?

    Somebody in the Underground?

  197. 197.

    asiangrrlMN

    August 5, 2010 at 2:15 am

    We ARE Being nice to Erik. Um, depending on your definition of nice. For us. We’re being nice for us.

    @Hugin & Munin: Um, one can argue with the tactics of the far left and still be liberal or even progressive. I consider myself very left on many things, but I bristle at the tactics of the so-called true left (self-proclaimed, may I note). I don’t like pretentious bullshit or purity tests no matter from which side of the aisle it comes. This blog is definitely left of center.

  198. 198.

    Cain

    August 5, 2010 at 3:16 am

    We’ll treat Erik as someone who needs to be saved. Hallelujah!

    On that note, congratulations, you’re now blogging on a blog whose commentariat are the biggest sons of bitches you’ll ever find..

    Now, given that. I’m glad that we have a conservative posting as it’s good to have our shit challenged from time to time with a conservative perspective. I hope your patient though.

    That said, I think there are some libertarians principles I champion, conservative ones as well even though I’ve become more and more liberal as I get older.

    cain (not Kain)

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