I’m sorry to clog up the front page. After this I promise to bugger off. But this is simply too good to pass up. Here’s Bill Kristol’s advice to Obama:
So: No tax hikes, no Afghanistan deadline, no Ground Zero mosque. It’s really pretty easy. They’re all the right thing to do (as you surely know with respect to Afghanistan and the mosque, and must suspect with regard to taxes). Doing these three things will stabilize your approval rating and could lead to an uptick before the election. November will be rough but not disastrous.
Then major cuts in domestic discretionary spending in the budget early next year, and military action against the Iranian nuclear program—and you’ll have a real shot at a successful presidency.
See – isn’t playing warmonger in chief easy? No tax hikes because we don’t need to generate revenue to actually pay for a never-ending war in Afghanistan or this new ‘military action against the Iranian nuclear program’. Oppose the Ground Zero mosque because it’s the Most Important Issue of Our Time. And make vague “cuts in domestic discretionary spending” of which the only significant portion is defense spending.
Bankrupt the nation, start more wars, and strip away more civil and religious freedom for Americans. Do all this and you’ll be just as successful as the last guy!
I bet the New York Times really wishes they hadn’t let this one get away. Such concise policy analysis. Such exuberance. And it’s not as though Kristol has ever given out bad election advice before…
pikhoved
That is just shameless pandering.
Smurfhole
How exactly is Obama supposed to stop the Ground Zero mosque, again? Some kind of Terri Schiavo-level grandstanding, only involving infringement on religious liberty instead of meddling with family medical decisions?
Bulworth
So, Kristol is saying Obama should exert some unconstitutional authority to refudiate the NYC mosque?
Also, too, along with No Tax Hikes, Obama should reduce the deficit.
carlos the dwarf
Has Bill Kristol ever been right about anything?
Politically Lost
Time to implement George Costanza’s plan to do the opposite.
valdivia
Kristol FTS! (hat-tip to whoever it was on this blog that clued me in about this “For The Stupid” internet tradition)
burnspbesq
Magical thinking at its finest. Entirely untethered from reality.
On a somewhat related note, it is interesting to learn that AP still knows how to
docommit journalism.http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20100806/a16e25b2-dad8-40bf-abe0-2b683436348e
mai naem
Wait, is this a post of John Cole’s or E.D. Kain’s?
Kain better be careful or he’s going to end up in the PRM like Cole.
Southern Beale
… no Ground Zero mosque …
Oh yeah that is TOTALLY the president’s call. I’m sure all of wingnuttia wants America’s Blackest President telling them where they can and cannot put their houses of worship. No Constitutional issues there.
What a maroon.
Chad S
Phew, I was getting worried there about Obama’s presidency there for a second. Kristol’s batting about absolute zero when it comes to political predictions and advice, so Obama is clearly on the right track.
NonyNony
Well Obama now has a clear roadmap about what to do. Because Bill Kristol is like a compass pointing north – when he lays out things to do just do the opposite.
So Obama needs to raise taxes, stick with the Afghanistan deadline, embrace the community center in NY, expand domestic discretionary spending, and make a point of publicly and vocally leaving Iran the fuck alone until they actually do something that provokes a response (like they try to invade a neighbor).
There you go – Bill Kristol’s certified roadmap to a successful presidency. And, frankly, that all looks like it would be pretty successful when you lay it out like that.
stevie314159
Hell, why not have Obama also arrest Bill Ayers, torture Jeremiah Wright and release the whitey tape and ask for our forgiveness.
Why don’t we just have Obama read “My Pet Goat” aloud, and call it even.
Midnight Marauder
I’m pretty sure there are a great deal of comments in a shitload of threads waiting for a response from you, if you were so inclined.
Just sayin’.
Frank
It also shows how terribly little Kristol knows about politics. The economy drives most (if not all) national elections. If the economy is good, the Dems will do fine. If the economy is bad, the Dems will do bad.
By the way, I don’t make more than $250,000. So why the heck should I care if the rich making more than this gets a tax hike? As Kristol damn well knows, Obama is only ending the Bush cuts for those making more than this amount. My taxes (including the taxes for 95% of all Americans) will not go up.
Dave C
I honestly was unaware that Bill Kristol was this fucking unbelievably stupid.
noncarborundum
The clincher will be if he asks for Biden’s resignation and replaces him with Grizzly Mama. After that it’s smooth sailing.
Tom Hilton
@Bulworth: I think Kristol is suggesting that Obama stop the mosque by detaining the people who want to build it at Guantanamo. With optional torture.
Redshift
It’s so obvious! Reverse any policy changes from your predecessor, and you “will stabilize your approval rating” and have a “successful presidency.” Because Bush had such a “stable” approval rating and was so “successful,” right?
My favorite part, though, is the mind-reading, where the president “surely” knows that Kristol is right. Why make a serious argument, when you can just say “surely everyone knows I’m right”?
I wish Kristol would give investment advice. With his talent for being wrong about absolutely everything, we could take the opposite of his advice and all be rich!
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
Kristol is to policy advice as Wile E. Coyote is to Roadrunner abatement measures.
Quiddity
I can’t see anybody caring one way or another about Kristol’s advice. Is a Weekly Standard reader going to say, “Yeah, Obama’s going to pay attention to this and change course.”
Perhaps the best part was where Kristol suggests Obama announce, on September 11, that there should be no mosque built in NYC.
Kristol doesn’t say anything new. His points are lame. Why doesn’t Kristol advise Obama to raise money for Republican candidates? It’s just as good “advice”.
Bob
Was that Kristol stuff cross posted to The Onion?
QuaintIrene
You beat me to it. Will anybody ask this nit what control Obama is supposed to have over this local issue?
kay
My husband said conservatives jumping on the issue of the Ground Zero mosque reminds him of Schiavo.
I think he’s right.
If a Republican President and Congress were in power right now there would be a proposal to issue an injunction by now. He had to remind me that they called the Congressional and Presidential Schiavo invasion The Palm Sunday Compromise, which I had forgotten. You forget how nuts it was.
He doesn’t even want to discuss the religious bigotry or First Amendment question. His objection is much more basic.
“Why are they in this at all?”
He’d be pissed if Obama jumped in. He thinks Bloomberg is the one and only person who should address it, because he’s, you know, the Mayor of that city, and the constitutional issue is crystal clear.
I almost regret that they’re not in power, so we could see that sad clown show in action again, as a reminder.
Flugelhorn
Kain… You are not a conservative. At best, you are a Jack Conservative. The mosque issue aside… Taxes do not bring in revenue. Taxes kill revenue by creating less in discretionary funds for spending on products which give businesses more money which in turn allows them to hire more people to meet demands brought on by having more discretionary funds! It also frees up cash for small businesses to spend more and hire more so that new money is brought into the economy for even MORE discretionary spending on more products that make more money.
In the end, you get more gross tax revenue by employing more people who buy more things. Local governments get sales taxes and feds get more income taxes. It is simple really. That is how our economy works. Why you people on this site or any other Dem site cannot seem to understand that is baffling. How does it make sense for the Fed to take more of your money? This leaves the states out in the cold because of less revenue in local sales taxes and makes them more beholden to the Feds for subsidies and the like, which is what the Dems want. Everything should go through the Fed, right? NO! Conservative my ass.
I hereby revoke your conservative credentials. You cannot even grasp the basic conservative economic principals. Here I thought there was hope for BJ. Not when the Conservative shill is bought and paid for, however.
-signed Superman.
Oh, wait. Calling myself Superman does not mean I can fly. I have to remember that.
beltane
@Politically Lost: Exactly. A translation from the Krisolese indicates that the only way to avoid major losses this November is to get out of Afghanistan and raise taxes on the plutocrats.
Hal
Wait, so what exactly is the President supposed to do about a Mosque at Ground Zero anyway?
Or is the Mosque this years Terri Schiavo?
mai naem
@burnspbesq: I think John Lennon would be rolling over in his grave if he knew a prison at Gitmo run by the CIA was called Strawberry Fields. I know it not a big deal but seriously, Strawberry Fields?
Bulworth
@QuaintIrene:
Also, too, in my Very Liberal Washington Post newspaper is a Charles Krauthammer column already accusing Pres Obama of “executive overreach”.
Yeah, I threw up a little in my mouth when I saw that.
jrg
In Kristol’s defense, he’s not a hippie. Most every “conservative” who lived through the ’60s knows that this makes him a serious person and foreign policy expert.
Svensker
And yet Bill Kristol will still be on your TV and considered a “respectable” person rather than a fucking sociopath.
He’s one of those people who makes me wish I had a giant blender and could perform interesting biological experiments on his person with it. KWIM?
asdf
Somehow I think that folks who might agree with Mr. Kristol didn’t vote for Obama. They are not going to vote for Obama next time either.
matoko_chan
just because you might take my advice a single time does not mean i forswear my kanly on you.
do you see a pattern here, Kain?
Newt, Palin, Romney’s book, Times cover, Wikileaks pushback, the “America is Israel’s Bitch” bill, pump up the volume on sanctions not being enuff, Obama hates Israel meme….etc.
you are the war pimp party now.
its the only way to beat the demographic timer.
Redshift
@Frank: I read a good political point somewhere yesterday. Why are Democrats talking about “extending the Bush tax cuts” for the non-rich, rather than letting the Republican expiration date for the deficit-busting Bush tax cuts to stand and passing Democratic tax cuts for middle-class people? Why give credit to Bush by keeping his name attached to them when in fact it’s an entirely new bill?
mai naem
@Flugelhorn: That’s why Dubya, his daddy and Reagan left behind such huge deficits right? Clinton with the tax hike was the only one who left with a surplus right?
J sub D
Bill Kristol is an idiot. But most people already are aware of that.
The deadline Obama should have made for withdrawing from Afghanistan is more than a year in the past.
From here.
I won’t go into the whole taxation thing other than to observe the whole damned tax code needs thrown out, rewritten and simplified. Screw the loopholes for oil drillers, Chevy Volt buyers and and home mortgage holders alike.
kay
@Hal:
What’s the next religious holiday? They’ll be holding a special session. This time, on zoning.
I can’t wait to read the proposal. I’ve been doing a little reading.
“Be it known that No Egyptians shall Build….”
Is there some reason we’re being subjected to this, again? I think we covered this ground in Schiavo.
BUTT OUT. They didn’t get the message?
Face
For the 1,692nd time…ITS NOT A FUCKING MOSQUE.
ajr22
I love how he just throws in “THEN major cuts in domestic discretionary spending in the budget early next year, and military action against the Iranian nuclear program.” As if starting a third war against Iran is just another piece of the puzzle. Does this idiot understand that a war with Iran would be one of the biggest decisions in our nations history. To him it’s just a throw away line.
Seanly
@Dave C:
Yes, yes he is that stupid.
It’s 50% concern troll, 50% ideologue idiocy.
And since Bill Kristol is wrong about everything all the time, Obama and the Democrats should do fine if they do the opposite. Let the tax cuts expire (I agree with Atrios to let them all expire but pass a new one for lower incomes), get out of Afghanistan on a timetable and don’t get involved with the mosque issue.
Hopefully Obama has learned not to listen to conservatives after the Sherrod tarring. I’d hate to see him carry through on Kristol’s even stupider second paragraph.
I know it’s a waste of my time, but I hate, hate, hate idiots like Kristol.
fasteddie9318
@mai naem:
Get with the conservative bullshit program, please. Clinton’s surpluses were the result of Reagan’s tax cuts, and Reagan’s deficits were all the fault of the mean bad evil Democratic Congress for constantly approving budgets that were
way biggeractually slightly smaller than the ones Reagan’s administration kept proposing.licensed to kill time
Bill Kristol’s self-appointed role as Head Cheerleader and Pom Pom Fluffer for the noxious Sarah! is evidence for his Eternal Wrongness in All Things and Supremely Faulty Judgment. Res ipsa loquitur.
kdaug
Yeah… interesting rejoinder at the GOS – what about the mosque at the Pentagon? Apparently there is one, and if memory serves the Pentagon was also hit on 9/11. What about our sacred five-sided buildings?
Turgidson
Well done everyone! Kain is becoming one of us.
Ha, well probably not. Kristol is just such a spectacularly huge moron that anyone with an IQ above freezing knows to point and laugh.
Brachiator
The only thing dumber than Kristol’s advice to Obama is Kristol’s advice to Sarah Palin.
I much prefer Zero Mostel.
p.a.
Just give it a few years- if winger trends continue, the statement above could go from being sarcasm to a real hope. i.e. at least we know Kristol is an intellectual fraud. The next Republican Pres. will be a true believer in teh crazy.
donquijoterocket
@Bob:
Doubtful because the Onion is intentionally funny and more insightful than this limpdick wingnut.I’m betting he’d go a little easier on the war talk if he’d ever been to one. Probably easier on the economic advice if he’d ever had to get and work a real job all by himself rather than riding Daddy’s coattails.
evinfuilt
@Quiddity:
I can, as has been pointed out. He’s the perfect man to go to for the Costanza effect. See NonnyNonny for the full breakdown.
Of course, that does require people to actual do the opposite of what Kristol says (which they do when he gives election advice.) If Obama did everything outlined in NonnyNonny’s post, i’d do whatever I can to keep National Review running just to keep Kristol rolling these “brilliant” ideas out.
NonyNony
@Flugelhorn:
Kain is a conservative. You’re a far-right anti-tax nutter. I can tell by how you actually seem to think that the Laffer curve describes something relevant to current US tax policy rather than US tax policy under LBJ or Dick Nixon.
Frank
@Flugelhorn:
Of course they do. Any main stream economist will tell you that the average tax cut only pays about 30% in revenue to the government. In other words, if you reduce taxes by 15%, you are growing the deficit by two thirds of that.
Heck, Bill Clinton raised taxes and both tax revenue and job creation sky rocketed. We had a budget surplus when Clinton left office. Bush adopted huge tax cuts which left huge deficits. So much for the tax cuts leading to higher tax revenue.
By the way, last time I checked, Somalia does not have taxes. Somehow I don’t think their tax revenue is all that great.
Punchy
I’m just waiting for Billy Kristol’s next movie, perhaps a When Harry Met Sally sequel.
bobbo
In 2014, this will be Kristol’s advice to President Palin. And she will take it.
Mark S.
I’m curious what these legal moves would be.
Oh, Jesus Christ Mohammed
I thought it was financed by shadowy Wahhabi radicals. Why the fuck would they care?
I would like to see a remake of It’s A Wonderful Life with Bill Kristol as the central character. Clarence would tell him to just off himself, and God would give him his wings.
Redshift
@Flugelhorn: Gee, that must be why the Bush tax cuts produced zero net job growth over his term. But carry on, don’t disturb the perfect clockwork of your theory by checking it against reality.
Clap louder!
maus
@Southern Beale:
They’d change gears and concern-troll like hell if he ever refused to support the community center.
Corner Stone
@Redshift: It was at Atrios’ place. It was the same thought I had been having for a while now and when I read it there it solidified for me how damn right his point is.
Flugelhorn
@mai naem:
Not at all, Mr or Mrs/Miss/Ms Selectivley Blind. Who controlled congress in each one of those cases where the Republican president left with a deficit? The Democrats. They see nothing but spending opportunities for shoring up the base when there is a surplus. Democrats. Who was in control of Congress when Bill left office with a surplus? Oh… Republicans. Why? Because they don’t spend like Michael Jackson on a Vegas shopping spree, that’s why. The president cannot spend money. Congress spends money.
I also love how you people conveniently forget that Barney Frank was in charge of Fanny and Freddie when this bubble burst in housing. Housing caused this crap to spin out of control. Who laid the ground work for the housing bubble burst? Clinton did by mandating such a large percentage of Fanny/Freddie loans be given to those who could not afford to make the payments and were too stupid to understand what a 5 Year ARM was.
You guys are so blinded. Do even one of you own and operate a business? Pay employees? You are all just like Obama’s entire administration. Not one of them or you, have ever actually run anything in the real world. All academics, studying things through a plate glass window. All ideas with no experience. You elected a man to the Presidency whose best accomplishment in life to date was being able to get elected. He had never done a damn thing. The entire time he was Senator, he voted “present” and ran for president. He has nothing and you have nothing.
Go out, start a business, hire some people and get some work experience. There is a reason the vast majority of business owners and CEOs are Republicans. They know what works. They have lived in the real world and experienced real life.
Tonal Crow
Kristol/Palin 2012: All the propaganda, twice the starbursts, and three times teh stupid.
Mark S.
@Redshift:
Exactly, make the Republicans vote against tax cuts.
Flugelhorn
@Redshift:
Some level of unemployement is required and expected in a healthy economy. It keeps labor down and provides a ready workforce for expansion. People are always moving in and out of employment. You act as if the 5% unemployment rate of the Bush era were the same 5% of the population for the entire tenure of his administration. You have not a clue.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal
OT: I don’t know if anyone in charge actually cares, but cdn4.specificclick.net is making this site almost unreadable. Your ad servers are out of control, even by the standards of the internet as a whole.
fasteddie9318
@Flugelhorn:
Um, selectively blind? Did those deficits from 02 through 07 not happen?
Corner Stone
@ajr22:
That was my favorite part too. Kind of like asking for a divorce as you walk out to get the mail.
Turgidson
@Flugelhorn:
Ah yes, the “accuse others of that which I am guilty” gem. That one never gets old.
fasteddie9318
I get it! Flugelhorn is either Kristol himself or somebody auditioning as his understudy.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
I am glad that Sarah Palin had the cojones to finish out her term as Governor of Alaska.
Frank
@Flugelhorn:
The President has control over spending. It is called a veto. Bush didn’t use it once as long as the GOP were in control of Congress.
It is rather comical that you only blame Democrats for spending money; what about the cost for the Iraq war? Hell, the GOP even bypassed the budget and financed it via supplementals.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
What’s the term for this again, I’ve forgotten. Rhymes with Return Polling.
I really don’t see any reason at this point for Obama to not tack to the left, contrary to the popular wisdom. He could do all the things that Kristol asks and it wouldn’t win him or his party a single vote, but a mild left turn might get the Ed Schultz demographic back on board.
fasteddie9318
@Flugelhorn:
Because rich people tend to join the party of rich people?
Will
Yeah, Obama. Just take a pen and scratch out that 1st Amendment at the top, there. Midterms will be a wash.
fasteddie9318
No, no, I was wrong about the Kristol thing. Flugelhorn is clearly the Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.
QuaintIrene
Hey, were he and Dick Morris seperated at birth?
kay
@Mark S.:
You know, it’s interesting, but “Americans” hadn’t been polled on the decision to build a religious-affiliated recreation center in New York City until national conservative leaders made it an issue.
Bill Kristol and other national conservative leaders pitted “American versus American”.
TuiMel
@asdf:
Not only are they not going to vote for him next time, they are desperate for January 2013 when they think their long national nightmare will be over.
Jules
So all Obama needs to do is the exact opposite of what Kristol has suggested and all will be well.
Cool.
Chyron HR
@Flugelhorn:
You know who else blamed minority groups for his country’s poor economy?
Xero
Jeebus, it is never a fvcking republican’s fault, no matter what. Blame the last guy, blame the one guy in the House, blame Fannie and Freddie (whose loans to those who shouldnt have been granted them were absolutely dwarfed by private banks), hell, even blame the NEXT guy, but never, ever blame a republican.
Repubs don’t like to spend? Two wars, a cabinet level department, increased military budgets, medicare part d.
daveNYC
Who the hell cares that it’s technically just a community center. I say we call the damn thing a Grand Mosque, and that they’re planning moving the Kaaba there so that the 2012 Hajj will be to Tribeca. The wingers are already worked up over this, dial it up to 11 and see if any of their heads explode.
gocart mozart
@Flugelhorn:
Flugelhorn Johnson is right! If we eliminate all taxes, government revenues will become infinity. Eliminate government debt Now! We’ll all be Rieych Bieych!
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@Flugelhorn:
Redshift
@Flugelhorn: Heh, that’s cute, trying to change the subject. Do you even understand what “zero net job creation” means? You were talking about how tax cuts cause jobs to be created, not about unemployment. Bush and the Republican leadership passed massive tax cuts. By the end of his term, the result was that the number of jobs that had been created minus the ones that had been lost was zero. “Some level of unemployment” is irrelevant to this point. “People moving in and out of jobs” is irrelevant.
You insisted that tax cuts cause jobs to be created. Massive tax cuts were passed, and there was no increase in the number of jobs. If you were interested in understanding how the economy actually works, rather than wedded to how your ideology says it must work, this would cause you to reexamine your theory.
Erik T
Truly, it cannot be said enough that Bill Kristol is somehow 100% wrong about everything all of the time. He’s fucking amazing. I don’t know how he does it.
Dave S.
As with Kristol, the best response to someone who leads off an economics argument with “Taxes do not bring in revenue” is pointing and laughing.
Flugelhorn
@fasteddie9318: Oh. so now you want to blame Bush for what happened after 9/11? The economy was wrecked and money was spent on a war that a Democratically controlled congress was 100% complicit in enabling by voting for every single measure that came across their desk concerning it. Do you want to try to tell me now that the Democrat controlled congress wanted to give Bush enough rope to hang himself by a vote up on every single appropriations bill?
Wake up folks. You want to pin it all on Bush just like Obama does. The facts do not support it. At best, it was a 50/50 split and they should all go to hell. At worst, the Dems enabled their worst enemy (Bush) and then cried foul about it all the way to the polls. In November, you will be shown the light. Every now and then America needs a Dem controlled government to put the bad taste back in their mouth to show them why Dems should not be in control. You are about to see that in Spades.
37 Governors up for re-election this year. Of those, only 7 Dems lead in the polls. Guess what? This is the time we all get to redraw district lines after the census. You guys are screwed. Cali gains no seats. Northern Dem strongholds like NY, IL, MI each will lose at least one congressional seat. Texas will gain 4. Bend over ladies and gents. Don’t clinch or it will hurt more.
Mark S.
@daveNYC:
I like it. Mecca II: Eat It, Teatards!
Bill E Pilgrim
Never mind, completely missed the fact that you were snarking with that NYT line. Carry on.
AZmando
Flugelhorn – I OWN a small business and PAY employees. I have done so for decades.
I would never vote for the GOP. That party exists for one reason – to coddle huge corporations and the mega wealthy. If you can’t see that, you are simply blinded by Faux News propaganda.
kdaug
OK, one more time, just ’cause I feels like it:
@Flugelhorn: Remember the 1950-60’s? Maybe you weren’t alive, but perhaps you’ve heard of them. In those days, one person (usually the father) could work, own a car and a house, his wife could stay home with the kids, and they could afford a vacation once in a while (perhaps you’ve seen “Leave It To Beaver” or “Ozzy and Harriet” or “My Three Sons”). In general, the highest paid worker made roughly 30x the amount as the lowest paid worker. Aside from the whole “instant destruction from the Soviets” thing, life was pretty good.
During that time, we built the interstate highway system, sent a man to the moon, built our military to heights unseen in human history, and invented the computer, the precursor to the internet, and the Twilight Zone.
And the Top Marginal Tax Rate was 90%.
This had the crazy and completely unpredictable effect of disincentivizing people to rip each other off to get rich.
Now the Top Marginal Tax Rate is about 37%. We don’t invent anything, the Pentagon is going broke, the country’s in freefall, the richest are getting richer, and the average CEO makes ~300x what their lowest worker’s paid. Some 44 million people are out of work. And no Twilight Zone.
So tell me again how tax cuts are the answer.
Flugelhorn
@gocart mozart:
That is just assinine and purposefully (Giving you the benefit of the doubt) obtuse.
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@Flugelhorn: So you’ve completely forgotten the years the Republicans controlled every branch of the federal government?
Not everybody has memory as poor as yours.
Frank
@Flugelhorn:
How so? Our country already have some of lowest tax rates in the entire western world. We also have some of the biggest deficits in the entire western world. It is beyond foolish to think we are over taxed in this country.
Throwin Stones
The Bloody Bill Rule is nearly identical to the George Costanza Theorem, as noted by others above.
Do the exact opposite of whatever he states you should do, and you’ll be fine.
Turgidson
@Flugelhorn:
Actually, they do.
Midnight Marauder
@Flugelhorn:
LOLWUT?!
DaBomb
@Flugelhorn: What type of wingnut performance art are you engaging in?
Pray tell, where did you retrieve this information?
Rassmus-shit?
QuaintIrene
Except for the unfortunate fact that Congress,(and us) were lied to!
jerry 101
ummm….
Are you sure you’re a conservative?
I didn’t read anything you’ve written beyond your BJ postings…but, it sounds like you’re on your way to being a liberal.
Lets see…anti-war, anti-torture, anti “stupid-arguments against building mosques”, anti-death penalty, anti-Newt, anti-Palin, PRO-BEER (by the way, I saw that your blog post on that is getting picked up around the web – The Atlantic and TNR have blog posts about your blog post), the $1000 mortgage post (can’t find a concise term for that), apparently pro-gay rights, and anti-Bill Kristol. Pretty good for a conservative.
The only post you’ve had that I can quibble with is your post on Trucking Industry deregulation. You covered the good pretty nicely, but you conveniently left out the bad. For example, union penetration fell significantly in the industry and wages shrank as non-union outfits entered the industry.
But, that could be a totally different debate, and I don’t want to ramble (I did ramble, and now I’m taking it back actually).
Anyway, maybe its time for you to do a post to tell us why you’re a conservative. Your “pro-life” stance is a bit wishy-washy compared to most conservatives that I know. Sounds like you’re personally pro-life, but not in favor of enforcing your view on others. Which is a perfectly fine left-of-center viewpoint. Because you’re not showing many conservative bonafides. Don’t play too nice with us.
Or maybe that’s your game. Lull us into a false sense of security by convincing us that maybe conservatives aren’t so bad. :-)
Bnut
Ohhh, I get it. All Obama has to do is change his party affiliation. Then he’d be on of the “good” black people we don’t see at Tea Party rallies.
Turgidson
@Flugelhorn:
I think the side that ISN’T going out of its way to alienate the fastest-growing minority group in the country will be OK in the long haul, but thanks for your concern.
burnspbesq
@Flugelhorn:
I honestly don’t know why we can’t get better trolls around this blog. Maybe if we promise Bart DePalma cocaine and hookers …
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@kdaug: The 50s and 60s were only so nice for white males, though. Once the wimmin folk and the mud people started horning in on that action, the whole equation changed.
asdf
“The economy was wrecked and money was spent on a war that a Democratically controlled congress was 100% complicit in …”
Funny, I don’t remember it that way at all. Let’s check, shall we?
The 107th Congress of 2001found the Republicans controlling the Senate. The situation in the House was this: “There were 50 Ds and 50 Rs until May 24, 2001, when Sen. James Jeffords (R-VT) switched to Independent status, effective June 6, 2001; he announced that he would caucus with the Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat advantage.”
http://tinyurl.com/2g38ug
The 108th Congress of 2003 found the Republicans in control of both houses.
The 109th Congress of 2005 found the Republicans in control of both houses.
And in 2007 both houses went to the Democrats.
Glidwrith
@Flugelhorn: :Taxes kill revenue by creating less in discretionary funds for spending on products which give businesses more money which in turn allows them to hire more people to meet demands brought on by having more discretionary funds! It also frees up cash for small businesses to spend more and hire more so that new money is brought into the economy for even MORE discretionary spending on more products that make more money.
Oh, I love this – didn’t the Republicans just kill the small-business jobs bill? Weren’t most of the Bush tax cuts directed at the top 1%? As I recall (though it’s been two years since the election), wasn’t it determined that there were less than 1,000 small businesses that actually made over $250,000? And for whom does Obama intend that these tax cuts to remain in place?
If you are so concerned about discretionary funds, maybe you ought to support unemployment payments – since they amount to one-third of one’s usual pay, obviously those people will go out and spend the money, rather than hoard it (can you say $1.84 trillion) like the top 1%?
Punchy
Census results have been published? Wait, nope. You’re just a smoke-up-ass blower. Or something using those words, maybe rearranged.
And “taxes do not bring in revenue” is just so stupid, I have to believe this clown is a spoof. Also, no word misspellings.
maus
@Flugelhorn: BoB was more fun than you.
@jerry 101: Yeah, I wonder if sensible conservatives ever fully realize how long they’ve been abandoned.
eemom
@Midnight Marauder:
hmm….perhaps the M.O. here is more insulting to our collective intelligence than it appears.
Step 1: put up posts that say simple stuff that liberals like (Prop 8 decision GOOD! Bill Kristol STOOPID!)
Step 2: insert posts about Democratic presidents doing conservative-type stuff that nobody disagrees with (Carter Democrat! Carter good! Carter deregulate beer and trucks!)
Step 3: Score point. (Beer good! Trucks good! Deregulation GOOD!)
Bleat.
Bnut
@maus:
I miss that troll of trolls. I’m telling you, this place seems lonely without him.
Frank
@Flugelhorn:
How so? Our country already have some of lowest tax rates in the entire western world. We also have some of the biggest deficits in the entire western world. It is beyond foolish to think we are over taxed in this country.
kdaug
@Dave S.: No shit… where the hell do these people think government revenues come from? Where they have always come from, since, like, Roman times? Frackin’ Fairies?
Acquainted with the old phrase “death and taxes”? That’s the way governments have always worked.
But ask this jackass if he’d like to liquidate the military…. sure could save some cash…
Nylund
The scary thing about Kristol is the way he treats the building of a community center and the bombing of a foreign country as roughly equal things.
“Don’t build a building, do bomb a country…”
He probably puts more thought into what tie he wears than he does bombing countries.
licensed to kill time
I think Flugelhorn is really a vuvuzela. Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
kdaug
@jerry 101: I told him in an earlier post that the dogs are going to turn on him if he keeps talking like this… (witness Frum, Sully, et.al)
gocart mozart
It was sarcasm. I was pretending to agree with you. This may explain why it came across as purposefully asinine.
@Flugelhorn:
ergo No Taxes bring in great revenue Q.E.D. or were you just being obtuse?
asiangrrlMN
Kristol: The shining light to the way to the future. Just go in the direction in which his ass is pointed, and it’s all good.
Taxes don’t bring in revenue. Slays me every fucking time. And, yes, Bush is to blame for the shit that happened after 9/11. DUH! Ask something hard.
Svensker
@burnspbesq:
I’m pretty sure Bart takes care of that part himself. Or, er, what I meant was….never mind.
Don’t mention Bart again, K?
toujoursdan
I blame Bush for what happened after 9/11.
We didn’t have to invade Iraq. They were no threat to anyone.
We didn’t have to invade Afghanistan. Surgical strikes would have been as effective.
He didn’t have to keep the costs of both wars off the books, but he did.
And if taxes don’t bring in revenue and kill the economy why wasn’t the U.S. in the worst depression evah ( ! ! 1 ! ) when the highest marginal income tax rates were over 90% (for any earnings over $400,000 or $1.3 mil today) and all the other brackets were far higher as well?
asiangrrlMN
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: And yeah, wot you said. Fifties weren’t so great for everyone.
Davis X. Machina
@kdaug: I admire your effort but you can’t refute a theology.
Since the greatest faith comes from believing in the absurd (no faith needed, and hence no merit gained, from believing in the rational) there is a positive incentive to advance, with a psalm on your lips, into a barrage of oncoming facts.
Tertullian of Carthage could easily replace Michael Steele as RNC chair.
(In the middle ages the answer to ‘How do you refute a theology?’ was a pile of kindling, a stake, and a medieval box of medieval kitchen matches, but we don’t roll that way any more.)
Davis X. Machina
Brett Bellmore can be had off the troll waver wire for cheap. He’s working a low-volume operation at http://www.samefacts.com, and I don’t think Mark Kleiman will want more than a draft pick in compensation.
kdaug
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: Hey, granted. But it was also the start of the Civil Rights Movement, of anti-war protests, of “Woman’s Lib”. In short, the expanding prosperity of the middle class gave the populous the opportunity to start recognizing the other ways they were being screwed.
The rich, they do no likey so much. Threatening, and all, those unwashed masses demanding shit. Better to get a nice Alzheimer-raddled Reagan to insist that up was down, black was white, and that taxes don’t bring in revenue.
rickstersherpa
@Flugelhorn: Just a small point dear Flugelhorn, but in 2001 the Republicans controlled the House, led by the Saintly Tom DeLay as majority leader and the figure head Denny Hastert as Speaker. The Senate was controlled by the Democrats, by just one vote, due to Jim Jeffords walking across the aisle. Except for those two years of a Democratic Senate, the Republicans controlled congress from 1995 to 2007. My how we forget.
I dont blame everything on Bush. The Clinton neo-liberals, the Rubinites, who also unfortunately control economic policy under Obama, are responsible for a lot of our economic problems. I think the evidence is very dubious that NAFTA has helped economic growth in either the U.S. or Mexico. The Mexican debt crisis, the collapse of Mexican agriculture, and the current drug war shows Mexico drifting toward “failed” state status is evidence of NAFTA’s failure. Summers, Rubin, and Geithner followed that up by siccing IMF on Aisia and Russia to collect the banks debts and then they bailout Long Term Capital Management. They followed an anti-trust policy of “see no-evil” with the one exception of Microsoft, and even there reached a rather feckless settlement. Then there was the financial deregulation culminating in Gramm-Leach. Enough Said. The icing on the cake was the admission of China to the WTO without any promise they would remove the peg to the dollar. And of course, they did nothing prick the internet bubble, enjoying the party it brought and the appearance it created that they were geniuses. Not.
So I don’t blame W and Dick for everything. I just blame them for keeping all the laissez-faire economic policies they inherited in place and doubling down on them. I blame them for the tax cuts while carrying with two wars. i blame them for their woeful management of said imperial wars. I blame them for sitting on their hands from 2006-08 as the economy headed for and then went off a cliff.
Finally, I can’t think of a more evil man than Bill Kristol, another guy who had other priorities when he could have fought for his country in Vietnam, but is more than willing to send other folks children to fight and die for in his endless wars of imperial dreams and greater Israel. I am surprise he has not come out for the interment of all American Muslims and declaring their citizenship forfeit. After all, this is the Right’s logical path once they declare that all Muslims are enemies of the country. And once you get to that point, you are not to far from the gas chambers and dropping nukes over half the world.
Svensker
@Flugelhorn:
That’s gotta be a spoof. DougJ izzat you?
I’d go along with anybody who says that the Dems are mostly pieces of shit. But anyone absolving Bush and the Repukes of their leading role in destroying this country has got to be drowning in koolaid. See: two stupid wars; destruction of the middle class; destruction of the economy; endless deficits.
Yes, the Dems are mostly awful. But the Republicans are fucking crazy as well as being pig-ignorant scumbags. And you are simply illustrating that for us. Thank you.
kdaug
@Davis X. Machina: Gotta keep tilting at those windmills, mate. It’s in the blood.
matoko_chan
wallah you dumb cudlps.
hes tossn’ you a bone.
catclub
@Davis X. Machina:
“(In the middle ages the answer to ‘How do you refute a theology?’ was a pile of kindling, a stake, and a medieval box of medieval kitchen matches, but we don’t roll that way any more.)”
I thought that was how they supported a theology in the Middle ages.
YellowJournalism
@Bnut: BoB’s posts were, nine times out of ten, pure poetry, too. Sincerely fucked-up poetry, but poetry none the less.
kdaug
@rickstersherpa: And remember kids, when they can strip the freedoms from someone, they can strip the freedoms from anyone.
ET
What the fuck influence does Obama have over the suppsed Ground Zero mosque? Seriously Kristol needs to retire.
Howlin Wolfe
@Flugelhorn: The “principles” you outline have that missing step, where the discretionary reserves lead to a demand. How? If there is no demand, the company is not going to hire more people on a vague notion that since my business has more discretionary funds, I’ll hire more workers to, to, I dunno, sit around waiting for a demand to build up? Sure, that’s it, businesses do that all the time! er, don’t they?
Maybe because we’re not dishonest/gullible/stupid?
David Hunt
@carlos the dwarf:
Unfortunately, yes. Back in ’93-’94 he advised Republicans not to work with the Democrats in shaping Healthcare Reform to make the final bill more in line with Republican ideals, arguing that the goodwill generated by such an obviously popular idea like HCR would go to the Dems as they controlled the Whitehouse and Congress. He therefore suggested that they oppose any and all attempts at HCR, working to defeat it no matter what the final bill looked like. The idea was that pinning such a huge loss on the Dems would be greatly to the GOP’s political advantage.
He was actually correct in his reading of the politics of that conflict. He was a sociopathic monster for suggesting a strategy that hurt millions of Americans for the sole purpose of generating political advantage, but I have to admit that he read the politics accurately. Damn him.
Svensker
@asiangrrlMN:
Obviously. But what he was talking about was the economy. And economically, we are a lot worse off than we were then.
When I was a kid in the 50s my parents moved to Seattle because my dad finally got a decent job so we didn’t HAVE to drink powdered milk any more to save money. My mom had a part time job. They bought a 4 bedroom house in a pretty neighborhood near Lake Washington and lived there with their 3 kids. They had two (used) cars and we went on family trips regularly, nothing fancy. My dad was earning a pension and they had some sort of health insurance — it wasn’t a problem. There is NO WAY my husband and I, who both have to work, could ever afford the house my parents bought. Neither of us has a pension except what we save ourselves, we’re paying $10K year for health insurance and having a second car is out of the question. And we both have that twist in the gut fear whenever we think about one of us losing income or our health insurance going up again. Or if one of us gets a chronic disease and ends up with huge payments that insurance won’t cover.
But we do have microwaves and MP3s and computers and DVD players, so I guess we’re REALLY RICH after all. At least, that’s what people at National Review tell me.
duck-billed placelot
I take back my previous charitable welcoming of E.D. to the liberal fold, as soon as he figures it out. Yo, E.D: If you don’t like conservative positions, why the frig do you call yourself conservative? If you think government has a useful role in society, that gay people are human beings, and that endless unprovoked wars are bad or should at the very least be paid for, you’re a liberal. Unless the culture war issue of forced-birth-and/or-death is keeping you with the Massholes of the Universe party, in which case, I hate you.
Seriously, what’s the upshot here? Is he just marking time until he can get on the conservative pundit gravy train? Because he’s putting on a terribly unconvincing show here and doesn’t seem to be engaging so much as saying ridiculously non-controversial things to the point of being insulting.
kdaug
@Howlin Wolfe: Wow, has BJ actually graduated to a “Dem site”? I thought it more a loose conglomeration of misanthropic sociopaths collectively bashing their heads on the walls of societal stupidity.
Silly me.
toujoursdan
@Svensker:
You could also send your children to a university or community college cheaply (or free in some states) and use the new interstate highway system to get around.
I agree that race relations, gender equality and rights of gay people were in poor shape in the 1950s, but economically speaking, it was America’s strongest postwar decade, and high tax rates helped make that expansion possible.
Gus
@mai naem: I bet Bill Casey is also, but for the opposite reason.
birthmarker
@asdf: THANKS. I knew this was wrong but was too lazy to look it up.
This particular bit of misinformation is very common. Congress is ALWAYS dem, thus ALWAYS responsible for anything they don’t like.
Mike in NC
It’s on the GOP ‘to do’ list right after repealing the 14th Amendment.
Turgidson
@kdaug:
That’s a great description of what makes this place so charming.
Kilkee
Flugelhorn gives himself away as a Limbaugh-fed bovine by invoking the “Democrat controlled [C]ongress.”
Chuck Butcher
The GOPpers conveniently forget a few things with their idiotology, like that the top 1% don’t create jobs – consumer demand does, that downstream income is hugely driven by tax rates on top incomes – it is pointless to grab that last billion when 95% goes to Uncle Fed so it goes downstream, and essentially almost everything that has to do with economic theory that has been demonstrated as pretty accurate.
Try tracking wealth distribution versus economic gains and see just how fucking stupid they are…
I know Soshulizm … what do you expect from a lefty?
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@Svensker:
That’s definitely true. Part of the reason the economy was doing so well was a cultural sense that it was better for everyone to have a good shot at living comfortably, and a willingness to tax the hell out of the wealthy to help make that happen. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this notion fell out of favor around the same time that it became clear that blacks and women had to be included in “everybody” too.
It’s the cornerstone of the modern Republican party: better for us all to be serfs again than to share the wealth with those people.
birthmarker
@kdaug: Actually this is EXACTLY the history of the formation of the Heritage Foundation, which Kain suggested we ‘glance’ at in a previous post today.
If you haven’t read David Brock’s book, Republican Noise Machine, do so. (Kain, not you!)
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
The Democrat party controls congress. The Democrat party has always controlled congress.
David Hunt
@daveNYC:
Heh. Mecca in Tribecca. It even rhymes.
Mike Schilling
Erik, you dirty fucking hippie, you. Welcome aboard!
toujoursdan
Even when the Congress was Democratic, who proposed and signed off on the budget?
I thought the GOP was all about “personal responsibility”. Oops.
asdf
birthmarker, you’re very welcome.
In my transcription, I made a mistake, by the way. I got the House and Senate reversed. Sorry.
asdf
birthmarker, you’re very welcome.
In my transcription, I made a mistake, by the way. I got the 2001House and Senate reversed. Sorry.
Ash Can
@flugelhorn: Thank you for finally weighing in here and giving Kain’s “sane” cred a boost, but where the hell were you yesterday? Kain could have used you right out of the box.
Speaking of good-for-nothing trolls, can any RWers reading this explain to me how, in any way, shape, or form whatsoever, Bill Kristol’s thinking by any stretch of the imagination can be called “conservative?” PS: Using your own personal definition of “conservative” DOES NOT COUNT.
kdaug
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army:
Ah, my friend, I believe there’s the rub. Hadn’t quite thought of it in that way before.
So a kind of race/class ressentiment combo? It explains a lot about the ’60s “culture wars” that makes very little sense to people of my generation (mid-40s).
Does this really go back to kindergarten/sandbox rules about learning how to share?
It’s so fucking simple, it makes sense.
ed drone
The effect of taxes on the economy is that the part of the public most likely to spend should have their taxes lowered — they will spend the extra they get and increase demand; the part of the public least likely to spend should have their taxes raised — their extra income will not help the economy. So higher taxes for the rich (savers) and lower taxes for the middle and lower earners (spenders) is not only more just, it’s way more efficient!
And remember that when the tax rate for the highest bracket was 90%, those people would invest as much as they could, so that their tazes would be lowered. Investment helps the economy, creates jobs, and creates wealth. What do you have against that?
Ed
birthmarker
@Turgidson:
A new rolling subtitle, or whatever those things at the top are called1
eric k
EK:
Kristol is an easy target to mock, but which mainstream republican disagree with any of those positions?
This is why I have trouble taking the supposedly sane conservatives like you, Connor, Salam and Douhat seriously.
You pick the easy low hanging fruit like Kristol to mock, but then we get Connor saying he would have supported Newt until the Mosque thing. Or you saying you’d support Daniels or Johnson, who are little more than Kristol with a couple libertarian views on minor issues.
You all fall over yourselves calling Ryan a serious thinker for putting out a total fraud of a plan based on little more than magical thinking.
When push comes to shove you all support candidates who offer little more than the same warmed over policies.
Republicans keep saying “George Bush isn’t on the ballot, quite running against Bush” Maybe the Dems would do that if the Reps actually had something on the table other than the exact same policies as Bush.
John PM
I believe this Bill Kristol column confirms my hypothesis that Sarah Palin is the Anti-Christ and Bill Kristol is the false prophet. If by some dark power Palin is elected president in 2012, prepare for Armageddon.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Flugelhorn:
Damn, he’s watching us through our monitors.
arguingwithsignposts
@Flugelhorn:
shorter flugelhorn: bookmark it, libs!
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Flugelhorn:
Damn, this guy’s good. He can watch us through our monitors.
burnspbesq
@Svensker:
Aww, whaddayou have against Bart (besides the fact that he’s wrong 100 percent of the time, shrill, and abusive – which made him a perfect foil for Greenwald back in the day) ?
JGabriel
E.D. Kain @ Top:
Dude, no need to bugger off. Just because we vehemently disagree with you on some issues or premises and vehemently argue our positions doesn’t mean we don’t like you. You seem to be a good guy, like John Cole said.
.
birthmarker
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: Big LOL!!
burnspbesq
@Ash Can:
I’m pretty far right in this crowd, so I’ll take a crack at this.
It’s not. He’s a radical-right crony-capitalist with delusions of empire. None of those things have anything to do with anything I recognize as conservative. Just goes to show how a word can be stripped of all meaning by deliberate misuse over time.
There’s a conservative party in this country – it’s the Blue Dog wing of the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is so far out there, not even Le Pen or Haider would feel comfortable under that tent.
JGabriel
Flugelhorn:
DougJ, is that you? It’s gotta be. It combines proper spelling and grammar with just the right amount of over-the-top wingnut fuckery,
.
Amir_Khalid
@rickstersherpa: I think you meant to say “the interNment of all American Muslims” — although I wouldn’t necessarily put wanting to bury Muslims alive (or dead) past Bill Kristol.
Ash Can
@burnspbesq: Needless to say, I was not directing my question at anyone as sensible as you. :)
Mnemosyne
@duck-billed placelot:
As far as I can tell, that’s it — if liberals don’t agree to government control over women’s uteruses, Kain won’t ally himself with the side he agrees with 90% of the time.
Funny how people will make that kind of decision based on a medical procedure that they themselves will never, ever have to go through. It’s like me making my voting decisions based on what treatment I think men with prostate cancer should be allowed have.
kdaug
@JGabriel:
Yeah, but it would be nice if the EDK would stick around to wade through the shit…
JGabriel
Frank:
Here’s what I’m not quite getting. The economy crashed on Bush’s watch, due to policies enacted by Bush, 12 years of a Republican congress, and a thirty year economic paradigm of deregulation based on Reagan’s voodoo economics (as Bush pere used to describe it).
Everyone knew it was going to take a lot longer than 2 years to fix.
But people want to put the Republicans back in power already? What the fuck?
(Seriously, for all the reasons stated above, and many others, I suspect the chances of Republicans re-establishing a congressional majority this year is actually quite slim. But that it is even a possibility is still flabbergasting.)
.
Bex
If only Bill Kristol were president…
He will be if the disasta from Alaska is elected. He will be her “brain” the way he was Quayle’s “brain” when he was his chief of staff or whatever. There’s a depressing thought to begin the weekend.
Flugelhorn, you remind me of my troll. You guys all sing from the same hymn book.
Kilgore Trout
@Flugelhorn:
Oh. so now you want to blame Bush for what happened after 9/11? The economy was wrecked and money was spent on a war that a Democratically controlled congress was 100% complicit in enabling by voting for every single measure that came across their desk concerning it
Why should anybody take you seriously when you don’t even know who controlled congress when. Seriously, proudly ignorant is no way to go through life.
JGabriel
Flugelhorn:
What is it with Republicans and their fascination with anal rape? Projection? Repression? Sublimation?
Republicans really are so weird.
.
JGabriel
@kdaug:
Agreed. Guy needs to respond to comments in his threads a little more often and a little more specifically.
I think it might be a style and cultural difference between conservative and center/progressive blogs. Note how most conservative sites don’t even have comments. Maybe Erik is working his way up to the proper balance.
.
Chuck Butcher
@JGabriel:
Sane Conservative?
“I equivocate my assholery,” isn’t exactly what I’d call sanity.
The second one of these says “Free Market,” you know that either they are plutocratic enablers or are ignorant of history to mention something that has not ever existed, not even in their god Adam Smith. So somebody that spends words on that fable is … sane? A good guy?
Knock yourselves out with bullshit definitions if it pleases you.
Frank
@JGabriel:
Yes, it is bizarre. What is the expression; nobody has ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American voters.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
@JGabriel:
No, “people” don’t want to do that. A few people want to do that. Keep in mind that in 2008 42-46% of people wanted the Republicans to stay in power in spite of how badly they’d destroyed everything. They have a baseline of over 40% who will vote for them regardless of what they do or have done, so only a few percent need to have their minds changed in 2010.
Batocchio
See, anyone who can mock one of the leading neocons thoroughly can’t be that bad.
E.D. Kain
@Flugelhorn: Taxes don’t bring in revenue? Huh?
E.D. Kain
@matoko_chan: I know you love me deep down. We’ll see eye to eye someday.
Yutsano
@E.D. Kain: I’ll send flowers. And I’ll promise not to tell your wife.
E.D. Kain
@duck-billed placelot: I believe that competitive federalism, markets, and decentralized power structures are better for society. Fewer rules, lower taxes, etc. I’m not sure the line between conservative and liberal has to be so stark in all honesty.