Janet Lovett’s 7 year-old autistic son splashed her at a Florida water park, getting her t-shirt wet and causing her padded bra to show. As she was walking from the park to get changed, she was confronted by a policeman and arrested because she “did not give her name fast enough”. She was held in jail for 5 hours and was told that her name had to be entered in a database.
Janet’s from Peru and recently got her US citizenship, but her English is “not perfect”.
I don’t even know why I’m posting this, since it’s so commonplace and we all know that cops won’t profile when encouraged to arrest illegal immigrants.
cmorenc
About the only bright spot in this matter is that the local state’s attorney had enough smarts and decency to fairly quickly dismiss the charges against Mrs. Lovett once the case reached his/her office, instead of reacting by colluding with the cop to synthesize some sort of “resisting arrest” or “disorderly conduct” or “obstructing a police officer” charge. The latter is exactly what happens in an astounding number of cases where the police realize they’ve detained someone on shaky grounds, and need to go into CYA mode as a shield against being sued or being subjected to discipline.
Since Mrs. Lovett had already peacefully departed park grounds, what other possible reason did the officer have for detaining her other than the fact that she spoke with a foreign Spanish-sounding accent and was Hispanic-looking? Although this incident occurred in Florida, not Arizona, it is nonetheless about as paradigmatic an example as one could come up with why the Arizona law will inevitably be frequently odiously racist as applied.
cathyx
I wonder what happened to her son during all of this.
debit
Hah. Her attorney is going to insist the city produce it’s “database” in court. Bet that cop is looking forward to squirming on the stand trying to explain that.
@cathyx: Her husband was with their son.
Joey Maloney
Reading about this kind of thing just makes me berzerk with rage. I pray nothing like this ever happens to me or anyone I am with, because if in the event I don’t end up paralyzed with fear and anger, I’m going to end up getting shot.
Regular Reader
I’m sure the civil libertarians will all rush to this woman’s defense…
Linda Featheringill
Ah Geez. What a terrible story. My apologies to the lady [on behalf of the assholes that gave her a hard time] and I hope things are going well for her now.
Michael
She should have been tazed just to make sure that everybody got home safe. That is, as we know, the paramount concern.
Michael
@Regular Reader:
“Ah’m proud to be ‘Murkan, where at least Ah know Ah’m freeeeeeee……”
mai naem
I am in AZ and have 2 friends who I respect who agreed with the 1070 law. They’re both white blondes. They just don’t get it when I tell them that they will never be stopped under the law. They just don’t get it. Also too, I’m watching Morning Ho and Ho is awful awful awful without Mika around. Mika isn’t that great but she does provide some small amount of balance.
Comrade Javamanphil
Would’ve made an excellent episode of Law and Order. Meanwhile, some editor at Reason is penning a column on how the water park was within its rights to use the police to apprehend a brown person…or something.
WereBear
So now it’s illegal to get wet at a water park?
genghisjon
I’m glad you did post this.We need to be reminded that thug s are’nt always criminals.
Jim C
@cathyx:
According to the linked article, her husband was also at the park, and he and their son were still in the park while she was leaving to change. She was alone when confronted by the officer.
debit
@debit: Also, too, I know it should have been its not it’s.
Morbo
Yeah, good luck to this country ever getting the Olympics or World Cup or anything like them ever again.
debit
I wonder, did the water park call the cops? If so, do they call the cops every time a woman gets her tee shirt wet?
Michael
@Comrade Javamanphil:
Speaking of the fake libertarians….
http://reason.com/archives/2010/08/09/overreaching-on-gay-marriage
Jim C
The lawyer has some great snark in the article:
If it is compiling a wet t-shirt database, gosh, I don’t know where I stand on this issue.
Legalize
Where are the principled defenders of limitedgovernment on this one?
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@Legalize: Fapping to the story of an uppity illegal hussy being manhandled by sneering cops.
Comrade Javamanphil
@Michael: Brilliant. Civil Liberties for all…except those that make me feel icky inside. Worthless tools.
A Guest
@Jim C: The real crime is mentioned in the linked article… “absolutely no cleavage [was showing].”
Comrade Javamanphil
Apropos of nothing, watched the original The Italian Job with my family (two kids 11 & 14) last night. It’s rated G and featured multiple scenes of women in only their underwear. Guess I need to be arrested too.
phantomist
I think this Arizona law is going to kill the sale of the Urban Sombreros.
birthmarker
A similar thing happened in my area. a LEGAL HISPANIC failed to give his name exactly as it was on the the DL and was arrrested. There is some issue with surnames in the culture where the name they commonly use is not necessarily the exact legal name on documents. (It relates to how they use their mother and father’s surnames. ) Hundreds in fines and impoundment of vehicle ensued.
Bob
@Comrade Javamanphil: fail.
Reason is all over abusive cops like stink on shit.
PurpleGirl
@birthmarker: Your friend gave his father’s surname and the license had the full father’s surname followed by mother’s surname, right? In college I dated a Cuban whose full name was something like 5 given names and the two parents’ surnames. In regular conversation or activities he only used the first given name and his father’s surname. At one publishing job I had to alphabetize an author list for academic articles written by Mexican researchers and learned fairly fast the correct order of names and how/where to place them.
Emma
Birthmarker: It’s a common screwup. Happened to my cousin, to had to have all his documents reissued. When they asked him to write his name, he put down “Pedro Fernandez Lopez”. In latin cultures, we would address him as Mr. Fernandez. EVERYTHING came back for Mr. Lopez, which is not the way he is found on whatever database immigration keeps and caused him all sorts of (minor, thank goodness) trouble until the documents came back.
He couldn’t understand why in THIS culture, you lose your legal/social connection to your mother’s family. Took a heck of a lot of explaining.
stuckinred
@birthmarker: Last month an incoming freshman football player was involved with a firecracker case on the 4th. He doesn’t use his middle name, Lawrence, because it’s the name of a family member that has been disowned. He couldn’t spell it so he was arrested for obstruction by a campus cop.
Rosalita
@WereBear:
only if your bra shows…. scandalous!!!
Mike in NC
Two wetsuits and a dildo required?
daveNYC
Great freeking charges. And $20 says that nothing will happen to the cop that decided to pull this shit. Might as well just allow charges of ‘just because’ and ‘shut up, that’s why’.
D. Mason
@stuckinred:
Wow the overlooked tragedy here is amazing. A college freshman who can’t spell his own fucking name, I hope this is a joke. As someone who can spell his name but couldn’t afford college that makes me want to puke. Hopefully the arrest will get him kicked out to make room for someone who might take advantage of the opportunity. Talk about 2 wrongs making a right.
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@D. Mason: Yeah, really! It’s not like there are multiple ways to spell the name, none of which can be sounded out. Why, destroying this kid’s life is too small a punishment for not being able to spell a name he doesn’t use. That cop shoulda made him eat the curb, right?
Adam Collyer
@daveNYC:
You know what the worst part about that entire quote is?
We SUSPECT that she MIGHT be obstructing justice and resisting arrest because she doesn’t speak fast enough.
What justice in the world would she be obstructing? Is there a requirement that we speak at a certain speed now?
debit
@D. Mason: The tragedy is that this kid somehow got through school, graduated and got into college while being (I would guess) functionally illiterate. I knew someone who worked at the U of M; she saw kids like this all the time. They could play some sport and so had been passed up the line for the next teacher to deal with, all because the coach or the parents (or both) put pressure on the school to not hold him back because of his gift.
Comrade Darkness
Places never to visit: Arizona, Idaho . . . Florida.
They’d just squander my tourist dollars on preparation H and viagra anyway…
D. Mason
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: So the only way you can “counter” my point is to put words in my mouth and rail against your own delusion. Truly, I am bested.
timb
@Joey Maloney: “Don’t taze me, bro!”
timb
@Jim C: I know where I stand. Public access to this database is mandatory for freeeddooommmmm!
RareSanity
@Adam Collyer:
This is what stood out the most to me.
That and the fact that this cop didn’t just materialize out of thin air from the cosmic energy of a visible brassiere. Some holier-than-thou, teatard, defender of justice called this officer to report this and got lucky that the cop was cut from the same cloth.
Probably some pasty white grandfather worried about “what this country is coming to”, or some insecure, busy-body, woman that caught her husband looking.
It’s disgraceful. Even more disgraceful is the fact that this government empowered, real life troll, at worst will have to sit through an hour of “sensitivity training”.
stuckinred
@D. Mason: It’s more complex than that from what I can gather. The kid’s mom is an FBI agent so he’s not some ghetto banger.
DPirate
My first thought on reading this was that she wasn’t wearing a bra or something and her breasts were viewable by all the other patrons at the water park. Then when asked to leave she got mad. Maybe she refused to cover up?
I really can’t think of any other circumstances for this to go down. No one gets kicked from a water park because they got splashed. Somehow there is more to this story.
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@D. Mason: You didn’t have a point. You were howling about how unfair it is that the kid got something you didn’t, and how great it is that he’ll suffer for an arbitrary reason.
There are two common ways of spelling Lawrence. Quick, pick one! Sorry, you picked wrong, so you’re under arrest. Look on the bright side, kid, this will make some bitter asshole on the internet happy.
debit
@DPirate: Read the story. She was wearing a padded bra, and had a towel draped over her shoulders when she was stopped by the cop.
Oh, right, she MUST have been doing something nefarious at the water park. /sarcasm I repeat, read the story. She was arrested for obstructing justice and resisting arrest. Kind of like the black guy arrested for breaking into his own home. It’s sweet that you seem to believe there’s no such thing as a prejudiced cop, but recent events would seem to prove you wrong.
Corner Stone
@DPirate: I read the story and I am confused as well.
It’s not that I don’t believe we have people in authority who will cross the line way too fast, it’s just this is some wacky shit.
Corner Stone
@DPirate: Oh and BTW, you killed the Late Night Open Thread @ 140. Probably did it a favor but nonetheless:
Murderer!!
D. Mason
@stuckinred: I don’t care if hes a ghetto banger or from the most affluent neighborhood in town – he is not literate. I’ve known plenty of people from the ghetto who were intelligent and denied opportunity because of who they were born to or where they were born. My gripe is that he can’t spell his own goddamn name by the time he is college aged. That demonstrates a lack of basic intellectual integrity. Couple that with the fact that he is blocking someone who might actually give a shit about learning from a college education because he can run down a football field and it’s pretty shitty from my view.
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: I, also, have a name with multiple possible spellings – guess how many times I have failed at getting it right since entering school. You can call me a bitter asshole and rail against me all you like but what you are defending is a grown man who can’t spell his own fucking name.
Corner Stone
@D. Mason: My reading of the story is a little different:
I’m less convinced he couldn’t spell his middle name as I am that he chose not to.
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@Corner Stone: The story says that the kid never used the middle name anyway. Assuming he’s too stupid for college because he failed a cop’s impromptu spelling bee is ridiculous, particularly since the word he failed to spell was a name he doesn’t use. There’s a reason proper nouns aren’t used in spelling bees, you know.
@D. Mason: I’m defending someone who was arrested for failing to jump through a cop’s arbitrary hoops.
Corner Stone
@Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: In the absence of the young man saying he was confused and didn’t spell it properly, I personally lean to the feeling that he just didn’t want to cooperate. He didn’t give his birth date either. Do people assume he graduated without knowing his birthday?
This is just more police state shenanigans. I don’t think the real issue is the spelling of his unused middle name.
Corner Stone
@Corner Stone: Dammit, now I can’t edit my own shit? FYWP.
Anyway, I was going to take the @ Gen Jrod part out because I’m not really responding to your comment.
That should have been a stand alone opinion of mine, not directed at any one.
Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army
@Corner Stone: You’re right. The issue here is that failing to abide by a police officer’s every whim makes people subject to arrest with a side order of tazer. The fact that well-heeled college football players are getting this treatment just goes to show how far that rot has spread. The kid’s lucky his middle name wasn’t Tyrone, or he’d have probably been fed some electro-spikes with a side of baton.
D. Mason
@Corner Stone: I was replying to stuckinreds original post which states that he COULDN’T spell his name. That’s the point I was responding to and if that’s incorrect then obviously everything that issued from there is also incorrect.
Corner Stone
@D. Mason: It’s hard to tell from the article since we don’t have a statement from either party, which is understandable in the current situation.
IMO, it makes more sense, to me at least, to read that he felt hassled and was hassling back in the only way he could.
Maybe he didn’t want his accurate info going across the wire and somehow being flagged because of his mother. But that’s just speculation.
I don’t think we know enough about this yet, and probably never will. IMO it’s going to go away now that someone shined a light on it.
tavella
No, I had the somewhat same reaction as DPirate, wondering if there was something more to the story. Not so much the cop, as the water park. Water parks make their living from people getting wet, and a padded bra under a shirt would look not much different than than a bikini under a shirt, which makes it rather surprising that an employee would decide to pick on her if that, and that alone, had been the issue.
Again, maybe she just ran into an entirely unreasonable employee, and then into an entirely unreasonable cop, but when a story involves two unconnected people being highly unreasonable, one against rational economic interest, it does suggest a part of the story may be missing. That doesn’t mean that the cop’s actions will suddenly be acceptable, just that I’d like to hear from all sides first.
JL
This country would be a smarter country if everybody was hassled by a king shit cop at least once during their lifetime, preferably at an youngish age.
debit
@tavella: Honestly, I don’t care if she was standing in the wading pool doing the hootchy cootchie. She was asked to leave the water park to change into something deemed appropriate. It’s unclear to me if the police were called to report her. If so, I would like to see the log for the reason. She was then stopped by the officer, and asked for ID. She said it was in her car. When she didn’t provide her name quickly enough, she was arrested for obstruction and resisting. Those were the only charges, and were subsequently dropped. It seems to me that if there were legitimate charges, they would have been pursued and the city would be eager to make its case before having the snot sued out of it. That it has clammed up tells me it doesn’t look good for them.
I guess I’m having a hard time believing that on a liberal leaning blog, upon reading a story about a woman who was handcuffed and arrested for not providing her name quickly enough, and not allowed to show the cop the ID s/he claimed s/he needed in order to put her name in a database(!), that anyone would respond, “Oh, well, she must have done SOMETHING.”
ruemara
@debit:
Cops are always right. Even on fairly liberal blogs. Benefit of the doubt goes to the guy with a badge.
mclaren
@debit:
The people on Balloon Juice are a cringing crawling group of wannabe-serfs, contemptible bully-worshipers all.
The people on Balloon Juice lick the police boot that stamps in their face and kiss the baton that beats them to death. The “good little germans” of the 1930s were independent-minded compared to the servile crew of toadies on Balloon Juice.
As John Cole put it, “I almost cannot believe what I am reading…” when the Balloon Juicers rushed forward to defend Obama’s order to assassinate an American citizen without trial and without charges. The Balloon Juice crew are classic authoritarians, as craven and cowardly a group of toadies as ever praised the Stasi in East Germany or lauded Stalin’s mass murders in Pravda.
Incidentally, the probable reason for this epidemic of police overreaction is steroid abuse, which produces rage, aggressiveness, paranoia and psychosis.
Google the CBS video report “Police Steroid Abuse on the Rise” from 2007 or “Dopers In Uniform: Cops on Steroids.”
Source: “Police chiefs fight steroid-abuse trend,” Kristina Davis, San Diego Union-Tribune, 12 November 2008.
Svensker
@mclaren:
Nothing like a good insult to open people’s ears, minds and hearts. Else why are you here?
debit
@mclaren: :cough: You know, I also hang out here.
Your suggestion that steroid use might have played a part is interesting (and disquieting) but I fear most people are going to skip it in order to respond to your blanket condemnation of the community. It’s not my place to tell anyone how to interact here, but your comments sometimes makes me wonder if you’re trying to take part in the conversation or provoke a fight.
mclaren
@Svensker:
Telling the truth can never be an insult.
tavella
Did I say that the cop’s actions were right? No. If it’s an accurate account, then she very much deserves to win her case and be well compensated. But the shape of the story suggests holes, and I’m interested in what was in them. Call me a crazy liberal, but I would like to hear accounts from all parties involved before I go off. I don’t assume that just because it fits my personal narrative of the world that people on my ‘side’ are always telling the truth and fully so.
Zuzu's Petals
@tavella:
I wondered too, and found this:
I suspect the “database” may have been one for checking outstanding warrants. It’s the only thing that makes sense in this scenario, but who knows…
grandpajohn
Still a lot of unanswered questions here. and I get the idea of some covering her ass in the officers response. If she was actually in the process of leaving the park what was the problem? And why couldn’t the time be taken for her to talk to her husband? and why was this database thing explained more fully? It was only for the database ? what the hell does that mean, if it was only for the database then what was so important that she be arrested for not answering immediately
Three-nineteen
@Zuzu’s Petals #65:
That account doesn’t really help much (not that you said it did).
Was the cop going to arrest Lovett or give her some sort of ticket? Is it against the law to get splashed at a water park without a bathing suit on?
If the cop was not going to arrest her or give her a ticket, why did she need to run Lovett’s name through a database? Is it standard procedure?
When Lovett asked why the cop needed her last name, did the cop explain it other than to say “for the database”?
Is it against the law for a person who is not being arrested or ticketed to refuse to give her name to the police (other than the bullshit ‘obstruction of justice’ charge)? If so, why do we have this law?
And now for the real purpose of my comment – to quote Eric Cartman:
“We’ve got to change our priorities
And get all these minorities
Out of my water park”
Bella Q
@Zuzu’s Petals: But, last I heard, there is no duty to give an officer your name. I’ve personally dismissed (sad to say) at arraignment if I saw them there, and in a trial room if they made it that far, multiple charges of obstruction filed for that exact reason. “S/he wouldn’t give me a name,” when asked of an individual not under any reasonable suspicion – much less probable cause – of having committed a crime. Once we got the message clear to the specific Lt. who insisted such failure was not obstruction of official business, the charges stopped getting filed.
cmm
Speaking as someone who works in law enforcement, I think the story as originally told sounds crazy. If those are the entire facts of the matter, the officer was wrong, wrong, wrong and deserves to be reprimanded or worse. I am a strong believer in civil liberties and am cognizant of the responsibility I have to be careful of them in my job, and by and large, I work for a department that is overall pretty good about it too.
I’m really tired of reading stories about cops acting like jerks and throwing their weight around on stupid matters. Just want to throw in 2 cents to say we’re not all like that, and in fact most of us are very conscientious. The bad apples embarrass all of us.
The database stuff makes more sense with the more lengthy explanation at #65. It’s routine to check people for warrants and to confirm ID (particularly if they don’t have a drivers license or something other photo ID to confirm who they are) in a situation like this where someone is being warned or escorted from the property. Also, if she had been doing this repeatedly as the second story implies, the management may have requested a criminal trespass warning, which is given by the management in the presence of the police officer. In our department we have to do a brief police report to document that a warning was given because it is used to prove that a proper warning was given if the person is arrested for returning to the property. So the officer may have been trying to obtain her information to do that report. If that was the case, then her actions could legitimately be construed as obstruction but it’s a stretch and I wouldn’t have arrested her in the same situation. There are ways to defuse a situation at that point so you don’t leave yourself with no alternative other than “assert my author-i-tay” but there are officers who either don’t know about or don’t care to use communication instead of handcuffs. And it hurts everyone.
The other side of it is that it’s easy for me to say I would have found someone who could speak Spanish to make sure she understood what was going on, I would have reassured her, I would have gotten her away from anyone staring at her so we could address it calmly etc. But for all I know her autistic kid was shrieking, it was 115 degrees out, and the officer had been cussed up one side and down the other on the call just before it and was at the end of his/her rope. It happens; it’s not an excuse and I think police have a responsibility to control themselves so it doesn’t, but we’re human and there have been times when I’ve snapped at someone or been sarcastic and caused things to deteriorate instead of improve. Fortunately few and far between and I’ve never hauled someone off to jail for my error but people have poor judgment sometimes. Just gotta remember “with great power comes great responsibility”…
Zuzu's Petals
@Three-nineteen:
I dunno the answer to that. As I said, it could have been a database to check on outstanding warrants. I suppose it’s possible it was a sex offender database, since this was evidently the third time she was asked to leave under these circumstances.
I do note that the article said her shirt AND bra were soaked through, so maybe there was enough exposure to constitute an offense. But as you say, the article doesn’t really tell us.
As to what how she may have transgressed in her interaction with the cop, again you are correct that the article doesn’t give us much info. Maybe more will come out at some point.
I’m not coming down on one side or the other. Just observing that there appears to be more to the story, as you had also thought.
Zuzu's Petals
@Zuzu’s Petals:
John:
What’d I do @70 to put me in the moderation hole?
Zuzu's Petals
@cmm:
Makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
mclaren
@grandpajohn:
After the centurions whipped Jesus and forced him to drag his cross up the hill at Gethsemane and then nailed his hands and his feet to the wood and hauled the cross upright, I bet grandajohn would’ve said:
There sounds like a lot we’re missing in the Jesus story. I’m sure the Roman centurions had a good reason for what they were doing. After all, if centurions were called and there was a crucifixion, Jesus must have done something to deserve it…
Coming up next: some asshole BJ poster will expain why there’s a lot of the Holocaust story we must be missing, and why those Jews must have done something to provoke it.
Zuzu's Petals
@mclaren:
She was talking about the female cop covering her ass, you idiot.
Or are you comparing the cop to Mary Magdalene?
Anne Laurie
Probably too late to the party, but since the Orlando article says the cop was called as a result of complaints from “other parents”, I wonder how much the autistic son had to do with this incident.
Lovett, it is reported, got wet when she “climbed into the pool” with her son. Don’t know what level the kid functions at, but sadly there are lots of Good Parents who don’t want their precious darlings exposed to the damaging effects of Cripple Cooties. My first thought, reading the article, was that some other parent(s) bitched to the attendants, who quickly provided the majority with customer service by finding an excuse to order Lovett to leave. (“We’re not picking on a sick kid, ossifer, we’re just preventing titty-flaunting!”) For a lot of parents with other-than-“normal” kids, that would have been enough of a “hint” to remove their unsightly offspring from the shiny new venue & never return.
Tragically for Lawnardor, Lovett’s husband took over baby-sitting duties while she left the park to cover up. At which point, the “real” cop showed up, and bad publicity ensued. But I suspect (and, no, I do not have autistic kids, but I read the papers) that the original sin here had something to do with “nice people” not wanting their happy funpark day “ruined” because some freaky ‘tard was running around acting like he had a right to be out with us normals.
Corner Stone
@Anne Laurie: Damn. You have really put the horns on recently. I have to admit I like it.
kay
@Zuzu’s Petals:
It could have been the sex offender database. The registry.
If they had several complaints on indecent exposure (or like offense), it’s not much of a stretch to think they’d check that.
Zuzu's Petals
@Anne Laurie:
Well, looking at the video that accompanied the second article, it didn’t look like the son was especially low-functioning. I also find it hard to believe that he or his mother simply playing with him could cause three separate sets of parents to complain three different times.
And as a friend of someone with a developmentally disabled child, and a grandmother who attends baby playgroups, kiddie park outings, and most recently a trip to Jamison Square Fountain in Portland filled with dozens and dozens of children of all types, I have never, but NEVER encountered a single parent who complained about their “precious darlings [being] exposed to the damaging effects of Cripple Cooties.”
The fact that neither plaintiff Lovett nor her lawyer is even suggesting such a thing should tell you something.
Zuzu's Petals
@kay:
Possibly, but I think cmm’s comment @69 makes a lot of sense too.