I want to give everyone who’s experiencing formatting problems on the site, and using Internet Explorer, a little heads-up.
I’ll bet that every single designer who creates a WordPress theme (which is the part of WordPress that makes each site look different and purty), does so on a browser that isn’t Internet Explorer. They use Safari, Firefox or maybe even Google Chrome. After they’re all done making their theme look nice, they haul out Internet Explorer and make sure that shitty browser doesn’t ruin their gorgeous theme.
In other words, IE is not their primary target. So, sometimes stuff that doesn’t break Firefox, Chrome or Safari breaks IE. It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s reality.
If this site doesn’t look good in Internet Explorer, go download and install Firefox or Chrome. If you can’t do that because you’re on a work computer, you have my condolences. And if you want to know why the people who write on this blog don’t notice that it’s broken, that’s because we’re running Firefox, Chrome or some other browser that isn’t IE, and the site looks just fine to us.
Update: The commeterati tell me that the latest problem is cross-browser. So much for my little lecture, even though installing Firefox or Chrome is still a good idea. FWIW, haven’t seen the problem in Chrome.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
And horrors, it breaks Opera too.
But if you kill javazcrypt for the page, everything else works out AND you get to miss some of the stupid ads. Win!
MikeJ
All of which makes sense, except for the fact that it seems to be breaking because of something injected by an ad server. It’s hard to complain about a blog theme was just done as a labour of love, it’s another thing when commerce is driving users away.
It’s no skin off my ass, but I’d be yelling at the ad network if I were you.
lonesomerobot
yep, I design for wordpress, am using firefox, still getting unresponsive script error. this is a JS issue, not necessarily any browser trouble.
although far be it from me for you to correctly point out that IE is a shitty browser.
The Pale Scot
I’m running Safari and for the last couple of days I’ve been getting “slow script” messages, granted my box is a old mac but it runs FCP and CS4 just fine. Just letting u know.
Since this seems to be an ad thing someone should let them know the likely response will be an AdBlocker.
dmsilev
As an additional data point, I haven’t been seeing any problems using Safari, with the ClickToFlash extension loaded. If the problem is ad-related, maybe it is in one of the Flash-based ones.
dms
BIE
This is the only site that I have these problems with using IE. I’m not going to change ny browser for one site. Sorry, but I’ll just find another blog without the problems.
Jon H
@dmsilev:
ditto for me: Safari 5 with ClickToFlash. No problems. I dunno what you crazy people are talking about.
blogbytom
I actually think it’s a WordPress problem more than a browser problem (though it could be both). My blog got all sorts of fucked yesterday for no reason whatsoever, and I had to replace widgets and shit to get it looking sort of like it used to. Them’s my two cents, anyway.
In conclusion, FYWP.
p.a.
I use firefox, and have no problems. Curiously, I was having problems this spring; the right sidebar was far out of frame. Just figured the problem was me (there are times I hit my keyboard buttons just hoping a piece of cheese pops out of a slot).
cmorenc
For years, Microsoft was notorious for injecting things into their Windows OS code that were advantageous to IE and made it more difficult for other browsers to play as well with Windows, especially without breaking their platform interoperability. Karma’s a bitch when it catches up to you, Microsoft.
Now it’s IE that loads slower and slower compared to Google Chrome, and my ZoneAlarm firewall/antivirus etc. security software recently had to come out with an update to minimize the degree to which it slowed down IE (but not Chrome!) any further. Alas, IE is still slow as a turtle by comparison, and I use IE less and less and less…in fact, hardly at all.
IRONICALLY, IT WAS IE’S PROBLEMS PLAYING WELL WITH BALLOON JUICE which provided the final bit of motivation for me to make the full switch to Google Chrome, and I haven’t looked back. Sometimes gifts come in unexpected ways, thanks BJ for inadvertently sparking me to finally dump IE and switch.
chris
Linux user. Ubuntu 9.10 and Firefox.
What are you people talking about?
Could it be…oh noes…a Windows problem?
Josie
I’m using Firefox on an old Mac and have never had problems, but yesterday I got two messages about a slow script. Everything still loads, but something is different.
pharniel
some of us cannot use alternate browsers, or upgrade to ie 8 even due to overlord policy.
additionally Balloon juice now has the same problem that littlegreenfootballs does – namely when the page is loading at some point something in the background spikes my CPU to 100 and stays there for a good minute before unlocking and allowing the page to display.
so it’s FUck You Internet not just wordpress.
Suicidal Zebra
I’ve not been having any issues with slow loading scripts, as others have said “<3 noscript+adblocker".
Of course, running both probably means that this comment won't post properly. Oh well, small prices to pay and all that ;)
Joy
Not being computer literate, what’s a cross browser?
m.
Site is fine on Safari 5.0.
Robert Waldmann
For what it’s worth, I noticed that the
postslines ran on and on when viewed with IE so I switched to firefox and the blog looks fine.I suspect that the cross browser wowsers have managed to find a browser even worse than Internet Explorer (my congratulations I haven’t managed that in years of searching).
John S.
Bingo. I do it all the time, because IE is the most brutal piece of shit when it comes to rendering code. The only thing worse is Outlook 2007-2010 when it comes to displaying HTML email, because it uses Microsoft WORD as a rendering engine instead of IE.
The only developers who like Microsoft are the .NET programmers (and maybe not even them).
EDIT: Chrome on Mac works just fine.
PurpleGirl
I’m using Firefox and haven’t seen the formatting problem.
I do hate how long it takes the page to load with all the ads it waits for, although this happens at other sites too.)
I do have the script running error on may tower computer and have worked out that it is a problem with Flash 10 and an interaction with Firefox. Haven’t worked out the solution yet, though. This happened originally only at Balloon Juice but now it also happens at other sites. (And my main problem today that the tower computer’s boot record has been damaged and I have to reinstall Windows XP today. Thank the Goddess I have the ASUS netbook and a wireless router.)
russell
I know stuff like this is a labor of love, I know IE is a kinda sucky browser, and MS pisses me off as much as it pisses anybody else off.
But in real life, this:
“I’ll bet that every single designer who creates a WordPress theme (which is the part of WordPress that makes each site look different and purty), does so on a browser that isn’t Internet Explorer.”
is also know as “but it works on my machine!”.
When half the world uses IE, IE should be among your targets. The fact that you happen to like to work on a different browser is not a good reason for that browser to be “your primary target”.
You don’t develop for yourself, you develop for the people who want to use your stuff.
If it’s a volunteer effort and folks just don’t have the time or patience to do cross-browser testing, fine, just say that.
But the “shut up and get yourself a real browser” thing is just laziness. IMVHO.
All of that said, Chrome and Firefox are fine browsers, they’re free, and they’re dead easy to download and set up.
It’s just that half the pairs of eyeballs in the world don’t use them.
tim
What Russell said above. Plus, this is a snotty post.
Lee
Or get Opera. I’ve been using Opera since the mid/late 90’s.
It is an excellent browser.
cleek
works for me. always has.
works on FF. works on my Android. works on Win7, works on Vista.
daveNYC
IE might suck balls, but it’s still 50% of the userbase, and it’s pretty much the only browser that you can bet that people will be allowed to use at work. If someone is designing a web page for a wide audience, targeting IE really is a good (although annoying) idea.
Onkel Fritze
Condolences? Really? F***ing condolences? That’s all you have?
Btw Anne Laurie solved the problem about 2 posts ago.
cleek
you’ve definitely got some HTML issues.
look at this comment. there’s an unclosed “DEL” tag in #26, which causes all kinds of double-quote fuck-ups, and eventually causes 26 and 27 to get merged into one comment.
look at the HTML for #26. the “DEL” closing tag is stuck in the middle of your “yus_replyTo” call. and the double quotes inside the yus_replyTo are never closed – the quotes which should close them have been converted to right-double-qoutes (”). so the rest of the tags in that comment are being swallowed.
Allan
Good luck storming the castle!
demimondian
Seriously, Mix? You *dare* blame the users for using a particular browser? Seriously? This is one of the most poorly-researched, ill-thought-out piece of crap I’ve seen on the front page of BJuice in all my years of reading.
IE has a 61% market share among browsers. That’s a fact. You may not like its dialects of HTML, but, honestly, that’s your problem; it’s here, it’s near, get used to it. You never blame the customers.
Gary
Chances are that the slow load is a cookie problem—when cookies update each other, as the clever little bastards do these days, there’s a lot of room for error. See if the problem goes away if you clear your cookie cache.
Unfortunately these days there are always 2 cookie caches—your browser’s and a separate secret cache maintained by the flash player within your browser.As all things flash, the latter often don’t work.
To clear flash cookies, you can use Adobe’s flash flush system, designed to make you sorry you tried, or you can google flush flash cache to find a non-Adobe proggie that works on your browser/system.
Paris
I’m using Lynx. What formatiing?
Paul in KY
I only haz work computer. I iz stuck with IE. Have pity on me kind sirs wiz yur Safaris & Gold Plated Foxeses.
Scott Supak
@cleek: Right on. Funny how some browsers are more forgiving of that problem.
This problem cleek has pointed to also affects the formatting in the feed (I use google reader and see it all the time, so it must be a problem with the blockquote, maybe in the CSS).
Sentient Puddle
Surprise of the day for me: A number of people here actually defending IE. That pains my soul.
That figure of “61% of all Internet users use IE” or whatever the crap that number is is bunk. That figure also includes grannies on XP who never updated from IE6 because they were never prompted to, and other such people who would probably never visit this site. Including the entire Internet-browsing population as your potential audience isn’t necessarily accurate.
And besides, alternate browsers are free. There’s no harm in evangelizing people here who haven’t thought about switching and linking them to Firefox. Hell, you’d be doing them a favor.
I still feel for the poor souls stuck at work where IE6 is dictated, though.
rachel
@chris: I don’t think so. I use Opera on Mandriva Linux, and I see what they’re complaining about from time to time.
(Then I hit the “fit to width” button, and the text wraps the way it should.)
mclaren
The site is also broken in Opera on Win XP.
All this stuff of “use browser Z” is a throwback to the bad old days of the browser wars when every site had some stupid brain-dead admonition “BEST VIEWED WITH [insert name of bogus browser here].”
It’s been 15 years, people. The tech is mature. We should beyond this kind of bullshit.
dianne
Well, I’m at work and can’t add another browser to my computer without the tech’s ok. He is a prickly sort of guy – we don’t cross him. I love this website but reading it has become impossible.
What is also happening is my cursor goes wiggy-an hourglass with a little ghost hand behind it vibrates at high speed. For a moment, I thought I was going to have to reboot but I finally got out and took another chance and the same thing happened again. Is that an IE problem, too?
Woodrow L. Goode, IV
Boy, Mix, did you ever step on a sore spot.
Web designers are, pretty much without exception, flatulating butthead elitists. They all have 92″ monitors with double-secret-overclocked water-cooled 64-bit game machines with 96 gigs of memory. They’re connected to the Internet through Gigabit fiber. Their OS is some variant geek tweak of Linux, and they have some browser with 92 plug-ins and add-ons.
And when you tell then their site isn’t loading right for people running Windows, the whiny little bitches give you a pissy look that makes you want to slap the snot out of them.
If anyone can’t guess, I used to be a web project manager, who always did the usability testing. I did it because I learned that the people building the site didn’t give a rats ass about end users.
Site takes forever to load? Requires a plug-in that few people have– and business users (whose machines are locked down by the IT staff) can’t install? Won’t display in the browsers that most people/companies use? Type too small for target audience to read? Uses red type on green background– a scheme that the 12% of users who are color-blind won’t be able to see?
They think black text on white backgrounds is drab and that tabs are boring. They’ve done three sites like that in the last month and are ready to do something new.
My favorite story is the time I’m working on a site about Medicare. I have to keep explaining that an 8px base font is not acceptable, since most of your visitors are likely to wear bifocals. And, no, you can’t create a design that relies on mouseovers, because they might not be able to hold the mouse still.
I’m building an extranet where one of the main users will be Sherwin-Williams (who are wedded to IE) and the designers keep building pages with PNG graphis, which don’t display properly in IE. And I have to fire two people before they realize I’m not joking about using JPGs and GIFs.
Mix, I appreciate that you’re just trying to be helpful, but, as I used to tell designers right before I started screaming at them, it’s not the customer’s job to adapt to the vendor. Designers who don’t want to create work that has value for end-users need to consider that there is 9.5% unemployment out there, so it’s not a great time for artistic temperament.
I fell better. By the way, unless you’re comfortable having your personal data mined by Google and used, I wouldn’t do anything confidential under Chrome. In terms of personal privacy, Google is by far the worst vendor. There have been way too many cases of that company saying “Oh, did you not want us to–” for me to trust them.
And, for the record, I personally use five browsers on a daily basis, depending on the task:
1. Chrome for when I know I’m going to need to have 5-8 windows open. It handles memory most efficiently.
2. Safari if I want pages to load quickly and I’m not going to be reading too much. Safari’s type-handling drives me nuts. It’s also not very secure (yes, even less than MS).
3. Opera, if I’m going to a site that uses lots of Javascript. It executes code orders of magnitude faster than anything else. (Assuming it renders the page properly, which it won’t always do.)
4. Firefox for privacy. There’s no marketing department there to be tempted to leverage my personal information, and many of their developers are nuts (in a good way) on the subject of privacy.
5. Internet Explorer when I’m doing projects involving the government, because all the .gov sites are designed for IE, and vendors for the feds (because they know this) all build their sites for IE.
Edward G. Talbot
gotta agree with russell and davenyc – IE has the largest installed base and complaining about it is like complaining about the weather – it shows a lack of seriousness about actual issues. Though I wouldn’t dispute the likelihood that IE is not the most common browser used to view this site.
That said, as a web developer coding for cross-platform, IE poses the most challenges of the major browsers. Inevitably when I had something that worked on one browser and didn’t work on another, it was due to IE not implementing some standard correctly.
Until IE8. With IE8, I have found far fewer compatibility issues and on a couple of occasions have actually found issues where FF is technically incorrect and IE8 is adhering to the standard.
demimondian
@Sentient Puddle: Go look at wikipedia if you don’t believe me; the facts are what they are.
Sentient Puddle
@demimondian: Except that’s not what I said. To repeat, the overall population isn’t what matters. It’s the demographic of people who read this site.
demimondian
@Sentient Puddle: Then you didn’t read mix’s post very well, did you?
But don’t worry about it, eh? Because you can download a vulnerability-ridden, frequently exploited *free* browser from the firefox clown club.
anthrosciguy
I guess we now call mistermix “Robert Gibbs”.
Bella Q
Do any designers actually use Internet Exploder? And if so, why?
Sentient Puddle
@demimondian: I honestly have no idea how you think that quoting mistermix refutes (or has anything to do with) what I said in any way, shape or form. Maybe you just speak some different form of English than the rest of us.
John D.
@Sentient Puddle: Do you happen to have statistics regarding the browser usage of BJ? No? Then how about you look at the statistics of overall browser usage, since the local usage is likely to be somewhat aligned — not perfectly, but similarly.
Mix’s post slamming IE is retarded. Designers don’t “haul out IE to make sure that shitty browser doesn’t ruin their gorgeous theme”. Designers make DAMNED sure it looks good in IE, since you are fucking well going to be viewed in it. I test all my designs in the order of IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera. I expect Chrome will bump above Firefox in the next year or two, as it’s a superior browser all around. I do not expect to see IE supplanted as #1 for a decade or more, for one reason — business applications.
There is an ENORMOUS installed base of applications that require IE, and that no amount of user-agent shenanigans will get around. So, smart designers will always focus on IE. Professional haters will ignore it.
Sentient Puddle
@John D.: I don’t have stats, but it’s not exactly difficult for people running the site to get the stats.
Platonicspoof
Repeating my 2 cents worth from yesterday:
Using XP SP2 and IE 8 (not updated couple weeks), active X controls not allowed, medium high for cookies, etc. = no problems with margins, dog photos in post above ok in both post and in comments, comment buttons and editing working, etc.
Maybe an admin could run one of the programs that analyzes web page errors at times like this and save the results for the experts to figure out later.
I’d be interested to know how often it’s one of the ads and a particular browser / OS.
@Woodrow L. Goode, IV:
Thanks for the browser comparisons!
@dianne:
I see the “vibrating hourglass” correlating with the last active X control loading after I submit a comment.
In general, this site loads as fast for me as all others do when I don’t allow active x controls. Most x’s here are for ads and YouTube links I believe.
Jethro Troll
I’ve had absolutely no problem with the margins, but then, I use a macintosh.