This means nothing until Gibbs apologizes:
President Obama on Friday took a strong stand in favor of building a mosque near the site where Muslim terrorists flew airplanes into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, breaking his silence on a political tempest that has left the country divided.
Speaking at a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan, Obama framed the issue as one of religious freedom.
Muslims “have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country,” Obama said, according to a White House transcript. “That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”
Martin
Ah, definitive proof Obama is a Moooolim. If it wasn’t for that pesky 14th amendment, we wouldn’t be saddled with this terrorist anchor baby with his Marxist ideas trying to destroy America.
mr. whipple
The speech was excellent.
robertdsc-PowerBook & 27 titles
I’m glad he supports the center.
Michael Scott
About frickin’ time SOME Democrat steps forward with a spine to say it.
Just surprised it was the “Kenyan Muslim Socialist imposter” who finally stuck his neck out.
Baby steps . . .
sfinny
I’m glad that the President addressed the whole issue. Have to say that the entire kurfluffle has really pissed me off. I don’t even know how this became a national issue but I figure this must be how Florida folks felt about the Terry Schaivo fiasco.
Violet
New name for it: First Amendment Mosque.
Punchy
Should this mosque be built, I give it 6 days after it’s open before it’s firebombed.
Lolis
Obama fights back against the right wing extremists more than he is given credit for by many on the left.
freelancer
@Punchy:
Dude,
They’re not building it in the Confederacy, it’s just that the Confederacy is bitching about it.
JenJen
Oh, shit. I sense an intense, coordinated winger hissy-fit coming.
They have the weekend to figure it out, too.
Should be delicious!
Steve
No one is going to firebomb it.
FlipYrWhig
Not fast enough! He shoulda been involved sooner! [looks over shoulder] Or, um, too slow! He shoulda kept out of it! [looks over other shoulder] Not strongly enough worded!
But, rest assured, however this plays out, I will be very, very dissatisfied in the president.
Roket
Meanwhile, back in the right wing batshit crazy cave, the howler monkeys howl and lament the destruction of the ‘real’ America they once lived in, or somesuch.
arguingwithsignposts
sell out! can I expect 13 updates from Glenzilla?
arguingwithsignposts
@JenJen:
and this is different from the last 18 months in what way?
Sentient Puddle
I was going to say fuck politics tonight and get too drunk to coherently type (the last thing that goes for me, by the way), but yes, this is an awesome development. I indeed must raise my glass to Obama for this one.
Now, to carry on with the beer.
Zandar
Wow. The wingers are furious. I haven’t seen them this pissed off since Skip Gates.
Good for Obama.
tomvox1
@arguingwithsignposts:
Credit where credit is due:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/08/13/mosque/index.html
Sentient Puddle
Well, while wingnut tears are being mentioned, I’m sure that might be amusing to me to go along with drinks. Any links I can nutpick?
Martin
@Steve: I’m not so sure. The right has really ramped this shit up. We’ve had one guy head over to shoot up a non-profit that Glenn Beck tried to make part of a global conspiracy. We had another pair of wingnuts in Arkansas kill two police officers. The guy in Pittsburgh who thought Obama was gong to take his guns away…
You only need one guy to buy into this bullshit.
JenJen
@arguingwithsignposts: In no way is it different! That’s the beauty of it. They have such a collection of these freakouts now they probably just run the latest ones through a freakout-generator.
Batocchio
One of these things is not like the other…
Good speech, though.
Steven Rockford
“This means nothing until Gibbs apologizes”
Are you serious?
You write well Doug, but I can’t believe you actually said this.
Take a deep breath my friend, and recognize that the Gibbs gaffe and the importance of having the Obama administration formally accept the Corboba House are so far apart that it’s like comparing my son’s little league championship to the World Series.
Think!
freelancer
@Steven Rockford:
Are you new here?
Mark S.
It’s gonna be tough to top Krauthammer:
More.
DougJ
@Steven Rockford:
Snark, my friend.
YellowJournalism
Thank you, Mr. President.
Sentient Puddle
@Mark S.: I think Kristol wrote about this somewhere. I’m currently incapable of finding it (or caring to find it), but I’m sure he can eek it out over Krauthammer. But just barely, because Charles was that bad.
arguingwithsignposts
@tomvox1:
only one update? WTF? Is glenzilla on vacation?
arguingwithsignposts
@Mark S.:
Wow, Godwin before the comments!
Where is matoko_chan when you need her?
arguingwithsignposts
@Mark S.:
BTW, maybe Charlie needs a map, because Treblinka was in fucking Poland!
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: SShhh! Jeez enjoy the silence for once! Or I’ll make Lady Smudge tongue you til your skin peels.
Not that it matters, I ignore that one as soon as I see the name.
@Mark S.: Not that this subtlety will get noticed by Kraut, but there is an excellent history of the Holocaust erected at both Dachau and Treblinka. But regardless of that, it’s an apples/oranges comparison. I know I know I’m being logical here.
Jim Newell
The conservative internet’s so awesome right now:
Yeah, WHAT IF IT WAS *3000* ABORTION DOCTORS that got 9/11’d?
Sentient Puddle
@arguingwithsignposts: But I think that was his point! Treblinka (which I cannot believe I managed to type properly just now) isn’t in Germany! QEfuckinD!
No, I really don’t know how he thought this was in any way comparable. But I’d laugh if someone dug into it and found out there WAS a German cultural center in Poland.
Morbo
The fauxtraged response is going to be awesome, almost makes me sorry I’ll be outside most of Saturday and Sunday.
Violet
@Steven Rockford:
Heh. This made me laugh. Don’t think you meant it to be funny, but it is. New here, huh?
Something Fabulous
I was struck by two things during this part especially, watching the speech rather than reading it: 1) he sounds amazingly pissed off, and 2) he looks so exhausted, he really looks rather ill.
ETA: 1) good for him, 2) worrying to see, to me.
Mark S.
OT- Prop 8 judge doubts the defendants in the case have standing to appeal:
Weird. Do any lawyers want to weigh in on this?
Martin
@arguingwithsignposts: matoko is busy tonight measuring the cranial circumferences of the savage races to see which would make the best breeding stock.
arguingwithsignposts
@Yutsano:
you are obviously memetically selected for this mission. ;)
J.W. Hamner
MIA vs. The Clientele
Fun stuff,
Mark S.
@Jim Newell:
Man, it must have happened during one of those huge abortion clinic doctor conventions they have once a year.
arguingwithsignposts
@Yutsano:
And Auschwitz. Fuck Krauthammer with some rusty farm implements(tm).
Martin
@Mark S.: IANAL, but I’ve read several analyses that support this. Honestly, I’d like to see this case make it to SCOTUS as eventually one case is going to have to, and I doubt we’ll get a better argued, better documented one than this.
arguingwithsignposts
@Mark S.:
We are *so* missing out!
Allienne Goddard
Damn it to hell! Doug, you’re the one I actually like at this shithole! Are you now going to act like there is no rationale for disliking some of the Obama administration’s policies, tactics, statements, and decisions? If I wasn’t so drunk because I have to work on my research paper on… I don’t remember, some damn thing… I would go over to your house and kick you square in the nuts! Fuck you! I hope you burn in Hell, even though I don’t believe in Hell, and if it actually existed I would burn in Hell myself and have to be around you while we were both screaming on account of us both burning in Hell!
J.W. Hamner
@J.W. Hamner: Er, I meant that for the open thread… funness not depleted regardless.
arguingwithsignposts
@Allienne Goddard:
hey, eemom, good to see you on this thread!
Zandar
And Edroso smashes one out of the park. The wingers cannot contain their sheer hatred this time.
Between this and Judge Walker’s decision, they’ve exploded.
Violet
@Jim Newell:
What if it were 3000 illegal immigrant fetusus building an ashram?
Dave C
@Allienne Goddard:
I wish I were even 1/8 as drunk as you.
D'Angelo
tomvox1
I will hold Glenn Greenwald to his (fn. 1) own standard, and note that his support of Obama’s words didn’t go nearly enough, and that he is automatically a failure as a human and a sellout and a loser.
(fn. 1) And that of Krugman, Hamsher, FDL, Shakesville, and whatever the fuck else.
silentbeep
@Allienne Goddard: You made me literally laugh out loud! I don’t know if you are kidding or serious but it doesn’t matter. You are delightfully crazy.
Roger Moore
@tomvox1:
Coming forward with his defense of the cultural center while attending a Ramadan celebration is a nice touch. It’s like an extra special fuck you to the bigots out there.
arguingwithsignposts
@D’Angelo:
I’m still expecting some updates, or you are a failure as a human being!
Update 1: yeah, what I said.
Update 2: see how this works?
D'Angelo
I am still waiting for Glenn Greenwald, Melissa McEwan, Ed Schultz, and whoever the fuck else to properly give Obama credit for this to my satisfaction, and in lieu of this, they are nothing more than wingnuts who deserve to be shat upon and also set on fire.
YellowJournalism
@Something Fabulous: Now that last part of your post scares me. I may not be a total Obot, but for some reason I’m very protective of this president in terms of his health and safety.
And I’m sure he is quite pissed, as he’s had to endure more than two years of the secret Muslim meme, which is highly offensive to the entire religion in the way it’s used against Obama. Plus, the Republicans and their supporters have gone Ludicrous Speed into the crazy, especially as of late.
D'Angelo
I will again note that Glenn Greenwald has not properly given Obama credit for this, and is thus not only worse than Bush, but equal to like six Bushes and is deserving of Randomly Capitalized Snarky Words about his Worth, and also he’s really pissing on the Bill of Rights as we speak and is also a sellout and a loser and deserves to be hit in the face with a shovel and sucks.
D'Angelo
Update XII: I heard that Glenn Greenwald once made sweet, sweet love to Joe Klein but the bastard didn’t properly poach his eggs the day after.
Yutsano
@Roger Moore: It looks 11th dimensional chessy to me. Like he was keeping his powder dry until the right moment then WHAM he tears into the subject and kicks massive ass. And oh yeah he defended the fucking Constitution at the same time. Let them rant on I say, I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the inevitable popcorn moments over the next few days.
Sentient Puddle
Y’know, for what it’s worth, people like Ed Schultz and the like are probably drunk like me (and hopefully the rest of you). Give him a chance to sober up before attacking him for not giving Obama credit on this one.
Joey Maloney
Those are the ones where they perform abortions on pregnant schoolgirls kidnapped from Southern states, live, round-the-clock in the hotel lobby, the convention center plaza and several playgrounds all around town, right?
Good times.
arguingwithsignposts
@D’Angelo:
Okay, that’s enough updates! Green balloons!
D'Angelo
Update XXVII: Know what? Fuck Greenwald, the white-privilege sack of shit.
arguingwithsignposts
@Sentient Puddle:
It’s also a Friday news dump.
Nobody’s listening.
Update XXV: if glenzilla makes sweet sweet love to david gregory – we don’t want to know!
ETA: Update XXVII! I’m so far behind!
Sentient Puddle
I think the lot of you are out-drinking me. I’m sad.
Violet
@Joey Maloney:
Blonde pregnant schoolgirls. And it’s illegal immigrant abortion doctors, of course.
Allan
@Zandar: My two favorite words, both applied to President Obama: “creature” and “abomination.” I think Ms. Rubin just issued a fatwa against the Commander-in-Chief.
arguingwithsignposts
@Sentient Puddle:
drink moar! it’s not our fault!
arguingwithsignposts
@Violet:
Okay, there could be video possibilities here.
Bill E Pilgrim
Wow.
1) Obama speaks out commendably, courageously even.
2) Balloon-Juice cites it with a comment that consists entirely of a sneer that progressives won’t acknowledge it, and Balloon-Juice regulars spend most of the thread so far bashing “progressives” in the usual non-sequitur fashion, including slamming Greenwald preemptively for going to have found fault with the move by Obama (future imperfect Juician progressive-hating tense).
2) Greenwald writes column praising Obama effusively for the speech.
3) Balloon Juice commenters file this under ignore, forget, and above all never admit it ever happened when arguing later that “all progressives like Greenwald ever do is slam the President”, and “oh come on, show me one time he ever said anything positive” and all the rest I’ve read here a thousand times.
The groupthink marches on.
D'Angelo
Yes, yes, ha ha. But the truth remains- while some of us were fighting and bleeding for progressivism in this future, Glenn Greenwald was too busy on the toilet tugging his wang…and now he deems himself a proper judge of liberal character. Fuck him. Anything he and his supporters say is a fucking joke, even including the rare compliment to Obama.
Allan
@Bill E Pilgrim: Good thing you’re here to keep us all honest.
Roger Moore
@Yutsano:
I’m reminded of a comment from a favorite novel, where a character comments that rapid exploitation of an opportunity can be difficult to tell from deeply laid strategy. I’m not sure if Obama is playing 11 dimensional chess or just using the opening he was given, but it turns out nicely either way.
D'Angelo
Bill- I’m only applying the same standards to the fairweather Greenwald that he applies to Obama. If that gives you a sad, then I’m very much sorry, and by sorry I mean fuck you, I’m not sorry, privileged dick.
arguingwithsignposts
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Update XXXVV: those pearls you’re clutching, are they real?
Redshift
@Bill E Pilgrim: Time to take the snark-o-meter in for recalibration…
Redshift
I am nowhere near drunk enough to participate in this thread.
Violet
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I don’t read Greenwald. No opinion on him either way.
Thrilled Obama spoke out. Excellent, forceful comments. Especially happy he chose to do it tonight. In your face, wingnuts! Muslims are here, Eid Al-Fitr, get used to it!
Nick
Greenwald did praise the President for what he said, and he got flack for it. A couple of liberals attacked him for praising Obama because they thought it was an obvious thing for him to say. Greenwald, to his credit, attempted to point out that while this may seem obvious, it flies in the face of overwhelming popular opinion (which is a sad commentary for America), so he deserves credit.
I suspect Glenn knows stuff like torture and indefinite detention is also popular, but wishes the President would buck popular opinion on those issues too…I would agree, but I’m not vocal about it because whether or not he sacrifices his presidency to attempt, probably unsuccessfully, to prosecute torturers, it won’t stop the torture IMO. Look at the Republicans now. If they win because Obama bucks popular opinion on torture prosecutions, then the Bush Adminstration is going to look like a ACLU convention as compared to the next Republican administration.
Roger Moore
@Violet:
Wait, I thought it was blonde schoolgirls who were impregnated by being raped by illegal immigrant negro muslims. And I’m pretty sure they video tape the whole thing so they can sell it as internet port.
D'Angelo
@Nick:
Barely. Privileged jackass has a lot, lot more to make up before he truly deserves credit for any fucking thing.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Redshift: You’re claiming that D’Angelo is being ironic? Read the latest posts, your snark detector is the one getting false positives.
Good god, I mean lately it’s worse than before, even with John. I thought it was sort of heading the other way. It’s gone full-blown Obama fab fan mag at this point with some of you.
Gosh no, I can’t imagine why anyone would accuse you of being sycophants.
Luthe
I’m surprised Obama didn’t mention that *federal law* dictates that local zoning boards can’t discriminate against houses of religious worship. Especially if the discrimination is based solely on denomination.
Which is not to say that he wasn’t correct in focusing on the fact that it is a local land use issue and the rest of the country should STFU. I would think that the zoning commissioners of New York would know best whether a religious community center was an appropriate use for that building in that zone, not some grifter from Alaska.
Bob Loblaw
Yeah, that fucker Greenwald. History’s greatest monster has struck again.
The man has a code. You may not like it when he goes after Obama’s abhorrent detention/prosecution policies, but he has never not been fair to politicians who speak out on matters of civil liberties. When politicians make the right stands on civil liberties, he backs them. When they don’t, he doesn’t. He’s an absolutist. We could use more of them in that realm of public policy.
Where Glenn gets into problems is on domestic policy. He forgets (or refuses to believe) that politicians don’t believe in domestic policy the same way he believes in things. That deal-making is legislating. But tonight? What is wrong with some of you?
Martin
@Bill E Pilgrim: Really? Comment #17 favorably linked to Greenwald. What makes you think we all ignored it? And what makes you think we’re all critical of Greenwald?
Violet
@Bob Loblaw:
+ a few?
Something Fabulous
@YellowJournalism: Yeah, me too; that’s why I mentioned it. He just looks drawn far beyond the point of comfort, to me. Sad and worrying, both. [My people do a ritual spit to ward off the evil eye, after saying something like that. Consider it spat.]
theturtlemoves
Sweet lord, have you read those comments over at Greenwald’s place? Is that just PUMA central or something? Almost every comment was a variation of, “Yeah, that’s ok, but he’s still a giant asshole and I hate him and he’s evil and he’s just doing it to lull all of us into not hating him so much anymore and shit…” So, if you want to see an example of epistemic closure on the Left, there you go. What a bunch of freaking jack-wagons. Glenn was actually very solid in his praise and defense of that praise in a total fever swamp of a comments section, so I will definitely give him credit for that. But his commenters… holy crap. I thought the folks at HuffnPuff were bad.
Something Fabulous
@D’Angelo: Really, Dude (Dude?), you could stand to chill a little bit. Yikes.
arguingwithsignposts
Update XXXXVV: I think we’re missing the real problem here: Robert Gibbs!11!
ETA: my 11s didn’t show up. update XXXXVVI: that is the real problem!
Yutsano
@theturtlemoves: I admit it’s good that Glenn is capable of recognizing when the Obama Administration does something right. And the fact that his commenters are just drooling to bash him isn’t surprising since Glenn is usually a very shaped-tongued critic. So they’re caught in a paradox that they can only get out of by saying it’s fake or insincere. But I r an Obot.
@arguingwithsignposts: Smudge ate them.
arguingwithsignposts
those sekret mooslims from the bush administration! damn them!
Viva BrisVegas
@Mark S.:
Or hypothetically, the present day South no longer condones or conducts slavery (cough) – yet despite the innocence of contemporary Southern states, no Southerner of goodwill would even think of raising a Confederate flag, on say the Capitol building in Columbia, South Carolina.
Nor hold a rally to that effect last June 28th.
(via Sully)
Joseph Nobles
Allahpundit says that Obama basically voted present here. Pam Geller says Obama has endorsed Islamic jihadists.
Forget it, Balloon Juice. It’s August.
Elizabelle
I am so proud of President Obama.
This whole mosque construction opposition is going to rank with Joseph McCarthy’s finest in about 10 years, or maybe sooner.
Sad episode.
======
OT, but the Washington Post has a very interesting story on Elizabeth Warren up.
“Elizabeth Warren, likely to head new consumer agency, provokes strong feelings”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/12/AR2010081206356.html
Interesting in that (my guess) someone made the writer include at the outset language on Warren being “polarizing” and then the rest of the article is very balanced and almost advocates for Warren. One adverse comment by a “capital advisor” near the end which is almost a parody.
It’s like the Post paid lip service to the cretins who yank ombudsman Andy Andrews’ chain about not properly covering the teapartying outrage du jour …
and then went with an article that outlines why she is the perfect fit for the job.
The reader comments (209 at present) are about 98% in favor of her.
Here’s the lede:
Readers’ comments say “bring on the zealot” and stick it to the banksters.
I don’t see how Obama does not nominate her.
Allison W.
I want to give Greenwald credit for giving credit to Obama, but my inner obot says this was just a bone thrown to Obama – exactly the same type of statement that is aimed at Obama when he accomplishes something on the left’s wish list. That or they ignore it.
The adult in me says, “good on you Glenn”, the kid in me says, “why the f*ck should I care whether Glenn approves or not?”
Villago Delenda Est
Should Elizabeth Warren decree that banksters be put in stocks and subject to being pelted with rotten fruit, I, for one, will support her full-throatedly.
FlipYrWhig
I thought the Greenwald parodies were funny, until they became a bit too angry. Or maybe that was part of the parody, seeing as when Glenn himself has stopped by this joint he’s gotten very agitated very quickly.
You could also do Bob Somerby/Daily Howler parodies, where someone in the media doing a bad job at something, _or_ even a vaguely decent job, immediately degenerates into a screed about how Kit Seelye once wrote something about Al Gore’s suit jacket but no blogger ever talks about that.
Allison W.
One of the posters at Salon called Glenn courageous for giving Obama credit. Yet titles his post: Giving the devil his due.
yes, glenn gave a compliment and is courageous, Obama takes the actual risk and he is still evil. And despite the speech, another poster said Obama has no moral courage.
Yutsano
@Allison W.:
I’m not trying to be overdramatic here, but this could seriously cost Obama his presidency more than anything else he’s done. I fully expect whatever wingnut to trot this speech out in 2012 and use it as much as possible until we’re sick of hearing it. And if we don’t get around to restructuring the economy, we are well and truly fucked.
Bob Loblaw
@FlipYrWhig:
It wasn’t. Also, apparently being a gay Jew is the height of white privilege. It’s a weird thread.
Cain
Boy, you guys have your snark on tonight.
cain
NobodySpecial
I like to see Obama kick wingnut nuts in. He should do it more often. It’s not like there’s a shortage of wingnut stupidity out there; the only worry I have is he’d blow an ACL from all that kicking he could do.
ETA – Warren would be a good choice, but never in a million years would Nick/Stuck approved “Democrats” vote for her.
Yutsano
@Cain: Not me, I’m being as pure as the fresh-fallen snow in the Himalayas. I am. Honest. Just ask anyone. :)
@NobodySpecial: Meh. ACL tears are a relatively easy surgical fix. They just take a long ass time to heal and half the time most folks push it because they feel better even though the surgery hasn’t fully corrected yet. Oh and at least one of the ladies from Maine may be on board for Warren FYI.
chaseyourtail
@D’Angelo: I think I love you. Seriously.
bago
D’angelo needs to lay off the meth before posting. Apparently the rhetorical style of endlessly hammering home a point bothers D’angelo, but Glenn is a lawyer. What do you expect? Advocacy is kind of his schtick.
eric k
Jim Newell,
gotta give the wing nuts credit for one thing, they are right about this
“and one with suspect connections like the imam behind the Ground Zero mosque”
The guy has ties to Bush and Cheney and their administration, forget the cousin’s father-in law or whatever it was before, I mean we now know he has direct ties to noted war criminals, how much more suspect can his connections get.
Uriel
@Sentient Puddle:
That’s so weird- that is exactly the same thing I told myself!!!
Difference being, I actually had the sense of responsibility and dedication to achieve my goal. Guess that’s what separates the pros from the amateurs. Which is why my comment on the topic at hand, unlike your fairly cogent take on the matter, is the following:
Blatherwha? Obamsisadidsomestuchthingie? suprescoollses hooray! Good-tyspe neswses for mr. Sen. Mc Caine and his bestest-type friend ms. Govenrneriship palin, I gusses!!!!
(See, that’s the difference between real, heartfelt commitment, and the passing whimsy of the dilettante.)
Yutsano
@Uriel:
Holy crap! You’re a genius! You could be the next columnist for the NYT!
Uriel
@Yutsano: I try.
chaseyourtail
@Allison W.: I read those comments too. Normally, I won’t read the spew and vitriol coming from those bottom feeders, but I had to go there tonight just to see their reaction…and they are reeling big time, “Glenn, you drank the kool-aid. Noooo!”
Hey, wait a sec…does this mean Glenn is an official Obama cheerleader now? Holy shit.
LeaveBarakAlone
This site is a fucking cesspool. You wonder how the Nazis came to power, how a whole nation of people could become cultist hero worshiping scum – its pretty easy. Many people, the worst of us surely, are wired to need that daddy figure. And when they get one well, that’s when the shit hits the fan.
And the well done to the president. A courageous act that will surly bite him in the ass. Hopefully it signal a broader change is his behavior. Once can always hope for change right?
I’ll leave this site now to rest of you “centrists” you unprincipled hero worshiping fuckers). I encourage any actual liberals who wonder hear in the hopes of ameliorating some of the insanity to do the same. Its a waste of time – talk of principles is meaningless while they gaze lovingly of that picture of THE LEADER on their wall.
NobodySpecial
@LeaveBarakAlone: Thorazine is your friend.
Yutsano
@LeaveBarakAlone: I love the smell of poutrage in the early morning. Just out of curiosity, when you were formulating that vitriol, did it occur to you to maybe suggest what he could do differently? I can think of at least three things I want to see him do better, but I can still give him credit for when he does something FUCKING RIGHT!! Gibbs is right, there is no making you happy.
Uriel
@LeaveBarakAlone: Ok- I yield, and cry pardon. That’s a much better interpretation of “get too drunk to coherently type” than I did.
Hats off, kudos, and the rest. I bow to a true master of incomprehensibility.
ETA- As one who also “wonder hear in the hopes of ameliorating some of the insanity,” where would you recommend I go? lead me, oh master!
(Hey, wait a minute- Is that you spoofing, DougJ? Damnit- I always fall for that kind of stuff.)
chaseyourtail
@LeaveBarakAlone:
Oh stop with this OK? I can deal with your condescending true liberal nonsense, but the Nazi shit really pissed me off. Good night.
NobodySpecial
@Yutsano:
Especially when he smacks DeNozo in the head.
Wait. Wrong Gibbs?
Yutsano
@NobodySpecial: Where would like your Internets delivered?
NobodySpecial
Um, I gotta open the shop now. Just set it over in the corner with the other ones, ok?
Anne Laurie
@Mark S.: Kraphammer: “… despite contemporary Germany’s innocence, no German of goodwill would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.”
You know, I distinctly remember a group of Polish nuns deciding it would be a good thing for them to build a convent on the site of Auschwitz… sometime around the turn of the millenium, I think?… an idea which caused sufficient outcry that eventually Pope John Paul
George RingoII ordered the order to take their bead-bashing elsewhere. But of course I can’t find a link, because I’m tired & my google-fu sukks…Uriel
@Anne Laurie:
Heh, indeedy. And an important point to note is, that nuns in question even told the pope to fuck off for several years, before half halfheartedly giving in:
Note, everything was fine once they moved all the way across the street.
Zuzu's Petals
And high up on the Gazoogle meter is Rushbo’s predictable spew:
“Aha, so Obama doesn’t have time for the Boy Scouts but he has time for the Mooslims. Sure Bush had Ramadan dinners too but shut up that’s why.”
Something like that. Couldn’t bring myself to actually click the link.
Zuzu's Petals
@Roger Moore:
Pretty sure he’s laying the groundwork for the Terror Babies.
AxelFoley
@FlipYrWhig:
LOL. This.
BR
You know, I’m coming late to this thread, but I find it hilarious how Greenwald/Hamsher/Sirota types like to think of themselves as true progressives or true liberals. (Folks like LeaveBarakAlone.) And they like to label folks here, and people like me as “centrists”. Politically I think I’m actually further left than almost any of them are, but I’m not going to get into a pissing match over that. Anyway…
Resident Firebagger
Well, in the interest of balance, Obama did sign that border security thing today. If that money was any more wasted it’d be spending its Friday nights posting comments on this blog.
Think about it.
But, good on Obama for supporting the NYC mosque (even though I think it’s only a rec center).
It still sickens me the way most of you kiss his ass though…
DPirate
Nice tags:
This is an obvious no-brainer, though. He gets average marks for this. It’s something you would expect from anyone but a nutjob. If you want applause you have to do better than average.
BR
@Resident Firebagger:
See, a lot of us don’t kiss his ass. We just don’t find shit to carp about all the time and get whiny about how our feelings are hurt by Gibbs or some such nonsense.
AxelFoley
@LeaveBarakAlone:
Holy shit, this fucker just went Full Metal Godwin on us!
Svensker
@D’Angelo:
What is so privileged about Glenn? And why does that call up so much envy and hatred in you?
Svensker
@Yutsano:
Also, too, most of the liberals have departed Glenn’s comment section. What’s left are trolls, libertarians and anarchists, mostly. None of that group is particularly fond of centrist Democrats, no matter what they do. No PUMAs, so far as I know.
AxelFoley
@Svensker:
Well, you’re known by the company you keep, so…
kay
Bloomberg should speak first, and did. It’s a local issue.
Obama addressed it at this event, properly.
There’s no national issue here, constitutional or otherwise.
Conservatives took it national because anti-Muslim bigotry polls well, and their one and only goal is to nationalize the 2010 midterms, because their individual candidates are so weak.
I think we keep making the same mistake. These aren’t “principles” or “beliefs” they are spouting, any more than Schiavo was about principle. They saw an opening where they could exploit a division politically, and the First Amendment and Muslims just happen to be collateral damage, this time.
6 months ago they rolled over Hispanics, and the primacy of federal law regarding immigration, for the same narrow political purpose. There was an actual court case there, and a federal role, and the Obama DOJ acted. Proper.
It’s all the same scam.
Alwhite
I realize you were trying for irony there but you missed just a bit. Boy blunder made these exact kind of statements when he was destroying America. He, has has been noted above, was engaged with this same imam.
So, in that sense, he is just like Bush.
Having said that I don’t believe he is as bad as Bush but if you want to convince others of that you might want to pick topics where he takes a more liberal position instead of the exact same position as the assclown-in-chief did.
kay
It’s the same as it ever was, or at least since as it’s been my entire adult life.
Democrats are going to run on saving Social Security and health care, and Republicans are going to run on one or another mushy bullshit “feelings” ether-of-the-electorate-issue that has no grounding in fact or law.
kay
@Alwhite:
No, no, no. Bush took the conservative President’s role in the scam.
The coordinated conservative loudmouths go out and demonize the disfavored group, a fact the conservative President ignores, and the President takes the high, honorable road, because he’s a “good man”.
That’s better politically. They don’t want Bush’s fingerprints all over it.
gelfling545
@Sentient Puddle: Typing is the last thing to go, isn’t it? My daughter has suggested that Steve Jobs would be doing many people a service if the next Apple product included a breathalyzer.
El Cid
@AxelFoley: I mostly don’t participate in Glenn’s comment section not because of the trolls (though that’s annoying too), but because of the page-by-page format which rapidly fills up with hundreds and hundreds of comments which I can’t possibly get through.
(Oh, and politically I am an anarchist {of sort of the classical variety}, but not the performance personality kind.}
Alwhite
@kay:
And Obama took the conservative Presidents position . . . that was my point, thanks. :)
kay
@Alwhite:
Has former President Bush come out and defended the iman he worked with and used to establish his cred with Muslims, from this coordinated purely political attack?
No. Because former President Bush is a third generation politician, and a rabid, partisan Republican.
I laughed out loud when I read Andrew Sullivan’s pathetic plea, “come out, President Bush! You’re not a religious bigot!”
Fat. Chance. This is a 70% issue! Republicans have a live one here!
Former President Bush is a “good man” except when it might matter.
mclaren
Pretty much sums it up.
kay
@Alwhite:
This Obama-Bush tunnel vision is too narrow, and you can’t see from behind the blinders. Were you paying attention prior to 2000? They’ve been running this same scam since Reagan.
There wasn’t a coordinated attack by Democratic operatives against Muslims, so your comparison is invalid.
kay
@Alwhite:
I think you made DougJ’s point. He said “Obama” and you said “Bush!” Predictably.
Is it about religious freedom, bigotry, or anything bigger than “Bush!” ?
cleek
+10 internets to D’Angelo. that was an inspired piece of work.
DougJ
@Allienne Goddard:
There’s plenty of room for criticism but I think the stuff about Gibbs was overblown and of a piece with some of the criticism about not having yet weighed in on the mosque.
I still think the stimulus was too small, for example.
Nick
@Resident Firebagger:
this is supposed to be bad, because?
Nick
@kay:
And Republicans are gonna win.
kay
@Nick:
I have to tell you, Nick, you seem like a nice enough person and I believe you’re well-intentioned but I avoid people like you in my daily life, in all areas.
I simply can’t bear the defeatist doom and gloom. It’s contagious, which is probably a weakness in me, and not a reflection on you.
It’s hard enough to do, really, anything without signing on to that, so I run like hell.
I’m familiar with this Republican tactic. That’s all I said. Sometimes it wins and sometimes it loses. In any event, it doesn’t matter, because it’s a tactic that’s not available to Democrats, for a number of reasons, all good.
calling all toasters
That must have been some bad breakup between D’Angelo and Glenn.
kay
@Nick:
To put it in stark political terms, the Democrats aren’t worried about the “professional left” in the midterm elections, and Robert Gibbs is now and always has been an idiot who runs off chasing stupid battles.
They’re worried about reliable midterm voters, partisan, mostly older Democrats who vote in every election, and identify as “Democrats” rather than as “liberals”. “Party people”. That’s the bulk of the midterm vote, and that’s true on both sides.
That’s why Obama talked about Social Security today and he’ll be doing the same thing tomorrow. Our midterm voters are older, too.
dms
@Allienne Goddard:
Heck, this will be this place’s standing joke until the end of Obama’s term in office. It’s already been overplayed, and overplayed, and overplayed….
RS
@D’Angelo: The same thing could be said about Balloon Juice, which has evolved a bit since it’s inception.@theturtlemoves: Yeah. Hell yes. Damn right.
Remind me, is this the Judean People’s Front, and they’re the People’s Front of Judea, or is it the other way around?
FlipYrWhig
@kay:
I hadn’t thought about it in quite those terms, but I bet you’re right. And, given your description, might it not be said that that’s… “the base”?
kay
@FlipYrWhig:
It’s going to ride on reliable Party voters, because every off-year election always does, both sides.
OFA hope to affect Congressional races at the margins with younger and less reliable voters who came out in 2008, but they can’t and won’t carry the day.
Obama needs Democrats. It was the big (good) question during the primary: did Obama have the kind of PARTY brand and loyalty that the Clintons did, because he’ll need it to get him through the rough patches.
I don’t know that he does.
FlipYrWhig
@kay:
I agree — I was just getting at the much-repeated claim, after the Gibbs comments, that the administration dumps on “the base,” meaning liberals. I’ve been out there jousting with people about how liberals and “the base” are two different things, but your point helped crystallize the reason why.
kay
@FlipYrWhig:
I love your comments, but I don’t like this “who is the base?” thing.
We’re all the base. It’s just that midterms are low turnout and Obama needs every bit of his reliable Party-people “base”, because they’re precinct captains, County Chairs, etc, and they work in every election. They’re part of the infrastructure of the organization, which is the Democratic Party. That’s how they identify. As Democrats.
The truth is, most of them were Clinton supporters. They came out in 2008 because they back the Democrat, but I think Clinton would have inspired more loyalty from them, because the Clintons are a reliable brand in the Democratic Party, in a way Obama is not.
He needs Democrats, now, and I don’t know that he’ll get the same support Hillary might have gotten. They “KNEW” her, and that’s important to them.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
Just another historic balloonbagger victory!
> “The writ of our Founders must endure.”
“But the writ of habeus corpus? I wiped my ass with it.”
Hey, one out of two is still THE HISTORIC!!!, right? Credit where credit is due.
You Don't Say
What a wild, wacky week here at Balloon Juice!
Amanda in the South Bay
@Yutsano:
I think that’s a little overboard, i.e this costing Obama the 12 election. Yeah, I’m glad he finally stepped in and said something, but the wingbut Wurlitzer has shitty memory, and in a couple of weeks will be forgotten till the next controversy du jour.
I guess I’m cynical, not for any Greenwaldian reason, but because I see a lot of Obamas accomplishments as picking low hanging fruit, or being wonkish in the extreme, and I guess that outs me as not being a wonk, but so be it.
I guess I’m a little pissed that Congress and the WH didnt tack to the left after HCR was passed (every pundit/blogger out there saying that progressives would havevto stfu till HCR was passed) and wirkbon stuff like ENDA, DADT, or repealing DOMA.
kay
@FlipYrWhig:
One thing I’d like to see is a regional generic congressional ballot poll break-out. I think the extreme lows in Obama’s approval ratings in the south skew Obama’s national numbers low, and I’d like to see if that’s true in terms of the Congressional generic ballot, too. If it is, it matters, because Congressional races aren’t national races.
Citizen Alan
@D’Angelo:
I honestly can’t tell if this is legit or satire. It’s like Poe’s Law now applies to liberals as well as conservatives — It is impossible to tell the difference between a comment parodying a hysterical, hippy-punching Obot post and the real thing.
lawnorder
@DougJ:
It’s not just Gibbs. Is just the eerie feeling that I’ve seen this before. When this blog, and most of America was clapping for a President prancing in a flight suit saying “Mission Accomplished” , I felt that the war was far from over and couldn’t get myself to clap.
When all America was clapping for the “purple fingers of Victory” of the first Iraqi elections I could not get myself to clap. To me those who clapped had a simplistic view of the problems in Iraq and the tensions between factions were not going to get fixed by a photo op.
When people said “look at the 500 schools we built” and “we turned a corner”, “3,000 Iraqis have been trained”, and all other milestones that supposedly proved victory was just 6 months away (a Friedman Unit) , I could not get myself to clap.
When the housing bubble was burning bright, I could not bring myself to clap for the “great economy”.
Sure, building schools, training Iraqis, fostering elections were good things . But not good enough and to me, it all seemed like window dressing. I could see a lot more important stuff was NOT being done.
I got accused of having Bush Derangement Syndrome. I got told that if Bush cured cancer and resurrected Jesus I would not be happy. I got told over and over again that there was no pleasing we dirty hippies, that we were whiny worriers, that we could see nothing good . Krugman and others got told over and over that their dire predictions were absurd and we were on our way to Down 36,000.
And now… I can’t avoid getting the feeling of Deja Vu. I am being told the same things I was told during the Bush years.
Obama is not like Bush but the way people treat Obama critics is just like they treated criticism during the Bush years. Reduction to absurd. Distort their motives. Call them drug addicts, psychotic, infidels who never like the president anyway..
I’m not saying I’m correct on my criticism. Maybe you guys are right and I am asking too much. But I got told the exact same thing about the Iraq war. That I was too negative, that the casualties were just like murder statistics on a large city. That I could never ever see a positive.
And I was right.
So now, I trust my instincts a lot more than I trust people who can’t bear to hear criticism. Gibbs is just the latest of them, using the same methods Rove et all used to silence Bush’s critics, on his own base. Obama is not like Bush but Gibbs is acting like Ari Fleischer and Dana Perino. And so are a lot of people on the Dem side.
DougJ
@lawnorder:
I see your point. But I think a better point of comparison for Obama is Clinton. With him we had the Sista Souljah thing, endless wanking about V-chip and school uniforms, etc. etc.
And I thought he was a good president.
Obama will have to do a lot worse to annoy me as much as Clinton did and even Clinton didn’t annoy me enough to make me think he was basically a pretty good president.
Anyway, that’s my perspective.
Joel
@Nick: Fuck ’em.
They’ll win some, they’ll lose some. They’re worthless dickbags all the same.
lawnorder
@DougJ:
I agree with you. Obama seems better than Clinton, in actions so far. But not in his staff’s handling of the “base”.
When I criticized Clinton I didn’t get raked on the coals for it. Is mighty annoying to have the politics climate so poisoned that you can’t speak your mind without being attacked by your own side.
Violet
@DougJ:
Agreed. He’s not perfect, but no one every is. I think he’s doing a pretty good job, though.
pickledjazz
Make up your minds people. What the hell does America want?.
They get something …they bitch and moan,
They don’t get it ….they bitch and moan
Unfortunately, the hobby of most Americans appears to be the bashing of the President ..and then the claim is made that the Muslims and others are the terrorists. I get terror and ‘horror terrified’ every time I read the blogosphere with its negativity.
Apnea
You just have to love the full-blown obsession for Glenn Greenwald among the commenters here. Insults after insults, and never but the one or two comments actually addressing anything written or said by the man.
“Oh but his tone! His egregious, egregious mannerism! Oh, and sometimes he’s sarcastic! Haven’t you heard, he can even be downright self-righteous when the mood hits him!”
I eagerly awaits the day when Balloonbaggers will have got over their semiotic block and starts to dwell ever so slightly on the actual substance of writers who, yes, criticizes Obama.
“Criticizes Obama? But Palin!”
“And Republican obstructionism!”
“And …”
Shoot that messenger, folks! Shoot the mother down!
AxelFoley
@cleek:
Yeah, D’Angelo did work. I was lovin’ it.
DougJ
@lawnorder:
Yes, but if there had been thousands of people saying that Clinton was no better than Reagan or Bush, I would have argued against that too.
Belvoir
@Anne Laurie : There was a chapel, run by nuns not on but adjacent to Auschwitz, it had been there for some decades after the war, I think. They said their mission was to pray and meditate on the horrors of the Holocaust. Jewish groups objected to their presence, and they left. I think this was sometime in the late 90’s. That’s just from memory when it was in the papers, I might not have every detail correct. But no one was proposing to build a chapel for nuns at the turn of the millennium on Auschwitz’s grounds, AFIK. They had already left.
Slowbama
I think Glenn Greenwald has overall performed a greater professional service for his country than anyone at this blog.
Alwhite
@kay:
No, actually he was attempting to be funny by comparing Obama’s bold statement to Republican insanity (I assume) I merely pointed out that Obama’s statement was exactly like the sort of crap Bush used to say. You concurred by calling it a conservative President’s statement.
The only difference is the “conservative” blog-iverse muttered under their breath about Bush as opposed to screaming bloody murder as now. Knowing that was coming actually means Obama’s was ‘riskier’ but I was being funny also.
I do not think Obama is as bad as Boy Blunder (although I am extremely disappointed over several issues, some his fault others not so much) but I am constantly amazed that some people here seem to take anything less that total approval as firebagging.
AxelFoley
@Slowbama:
You can go over to his blog if you want to jerk him off.
tkogrumpy
@Citizen Alan: That’s the definition of failed satire.
Allienne Goddard
@DougJ:
Well, I’m one of those assholes who says, “Clinton was one of the best Republican presidents we’ve ever had.” Plus, I actually believe it. Look, I’m not a liberal, I’m a leftist. I am going to bitch about Obama and there just isn’t any way around it. On the other hand, I’m done with my term paper, so I’m less drunk, and perhaps there was too much raving over the Gibbs thing. I didn’t notice it, but the kinda blogs I read make a joke out of shit like that.
I still say you’re the only decent thing to be found on this damn blog, and I really hated thinking that you were jumping on John’s whole, “When I criticize Obama it is for good and reasonable reasons, but the rest of you are whiners” dealie. Fuck John in the eye with a fork, I say. Anyways, good luck to you, thanks for the reply, and post moar.
Now to celebrate finishing whatever it was I just sent to my professor.—–>