Julian Assange is now officially a columnist for a Swedish Newspaper, part of the effort to get Wikileaks some safe harbor under Sweden’s laws protecting journalists. Does this mean that the bitching from “real journalists” will end now, or do we have to wait until his mom sews his “real journalist” merit badge onto his sash? And will Aftonbladet will have to use journalism warning labels on editions that contain an Assange column?
In My Tribe
by $8 blue check mistermix| 44 Comments
This post is in: Our Failed Media Experiment
me
Naw, he has to be a sycophant like Lara Logan then he can be a real journalist.
MattF
But do you think the Swedes would mind if the US government kidnapped and tortured Assange? A tough call.
Albatrossity
More evidence that “real journalists” are increasingly disconnected from reality. Apparently they think that Congress is doing a good job…
PeakVT
Elite journalists and DC-based wannabes will keep bitching, but other journalists have a deadline to meet and probably don’t give a crap.
burnspbesq
In a just world, Assange would be sitting in jail awaiting trial for conspiracy and other charges. And when he finished his US jail time, he would be handed over to the uncles and cousins of the first Afghan that died as a result of his criminally negligent failure to properly redact the stolen documents before releasing them.
Fuck him, the horse he rode in on, all the stable personnel that take care of the horse, and the farmers who grow the hay and oats that his horse eats.
Keith G
@burnspbesq:
And any American soldiers who have killed innocents should be likewise handed over?
God, you are dense.
Michael
A few observations:
1. I’ve enjoyed the winger poutrage over Assange, and chuckled over the fee-fee squeals of “arrest this criminal”, considering that he’s not a US national nor is he located in the US.
2. With regard to the leaker, hoocoodanode that it would be risky to allow a 19 year old private unfettered access to dumpsterloads of classified documents. That seems less than bright.
3. With regard to conservative fee-fees, they want constant affirmation that what they’re doing (or the results of what they did) are right, good and wholesome. The worst thing anybody can do is criticize them.
mistermix
@burnspbesq: Do we have evidence that someone has been killed because of the Wikileaks revelations?
I’ve seen many claims, but I’ve missed the evidence.
PeakVT
This is the kind of craziness that will bring the US empire to an end:
ETA: I meant to post this in the previous thread.
Scott
As long as we’re demanding that this guy be locked up for endangering soldiers, could we maybe finally get a few centuries in the hoosegow for Judith Miller, Bill Kristol, Jeffrey Goldberg, and all the other media whores who got paid big bucks to endanger soldiers in the first place?
Bob Loblaw
@burnspbesq:
Ah, so you agree that the US Military Command and its civilian overseers are every bit as guilty of criminal malfeasance, then? That’s a start…
Michael
@burnspbesq:
Why? Under which rational standard of international law does US security law bind non-US nationals who reside in other countries?
Keith G
On topic, Is Assange actually a journalist? I have only slight issue with his methods, but I don’t think he is a working journalist. These are “new” times, so maybe I just need to update my definition.
Linda Featheringill
Good. Assange needed some protection.
And if what he published is the truth, he has a right to publish it. Which is basically what freedom of the press is.
And which of the amendments in the Bill of Rights covers that issue?
Michael
@Keith G:
I would say that anybody engaged in the accumulation and dissemination of information is a journalist.
Zifnab
@burnspbesq: What news does the messenger bring? That bad, huh? I say we shoot him.
burnspbesq
@Michael:
You may think it irrational, but non-US nationals can violate US law outside the United States. Assange is almost certainly guilty of conspiracy, and may be guilty as an accessory to violations of 18 USC section 641. Once he’s indicted, he would be well advised to stay out of any country with which we have an extradition treaty.
wilfred
@mistermix:
Of course nobody was killed. That’s because we immediately gave anyone named in those documents political asylum in Homeland, a fitting reward for their committment to freedom.
burnspbesq
@Bob Loblaw:
Unlike you, I have the ability to recognize when there is no logical link between two things, and not conflate them.
That’s another conversation for another time.
Here’s a match. Go burn that strawman.
burnspbesq
@Linda Featheringill:
Actually, he can publish it, even if it isn’t true.
But if he commits a crime in obtaining what he publishes, he goes to jail. Any problem with that?
If you think he’s a hero, write a letter to the probation office. Maybe it will be incorporated in a sentencing recommendation.
burnspbesq
@mistermix:
It may not have happened yet, but given the Taliban’s track record, do you sincerely doubt that it’s inevitable?
Michael
@burnspbesq:
Jesus Fucking Christ on a stick. Were your theories on law correct, then we as a society don’t deserve to survive in our present form.
Joey Maloney
@burnspbesq:
Hey! I bought a ticket for “Eat, Pray, Love” not “The Minority Report”!
@Scott:
Totally OT, I still miss Meet Your Horse Online.
burnspbesq
@Michael:
How is prosecuting a non-US national for conspiracy under US law when they enter into an agreement with a member of the US military to steal classified documents meaningfully different from a Spanish magistrate’s assertion of “universal jurisdiction” to try a Chilean national (under who the fuck knows what country’s law) for actions that took place in Chile?
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t wish for Assange to escape responsibility for his crimes and applaud Baltazar Garzon for turning international law upside down to go after Pinochet.
You’re either for the rule of law all the time, or you’re not for it at all.
Pick a side.
burnspbesq
I’m amazed that people I know to be capable of rational thought can’t get their heads around the idea that it is possible to simultaneously be a hero and a criminal.
My last words on this subject for now.
Joey Maloney
@burnspbesq:
Actually, you can, because the two things have nothing to do with each other. Spain asserted jurisdiction under well-accepted international law that makes it incumbent on all countries to prosecute war crimes and crimes against humanity, no matter where or against whose nationals they were committed.
To quote the famous philosopher, “Here’s a match. Go burn that strawman”.
Michael
@burnspbesq:
Huh? Where did I ever say I agreed with Garzon? I never did.
My personal preference on Pinochet was for Chilean nationals to kidnap him and flay him alive while videotaping it, as a warning to others.
Michael
@burnspbesq:
Why? Are you now off to go commit some malpractice?
Chad N Freude
@burnspbesq:
Kinda like Roman Polanski.
A commenter on another thread linked to this article in Time. (Sorry, I don’t remember who it was.) Assange comes off as a self-righteous egotistical prick:
And there’s more, quoting his tweets. OK, it’s Time Magazine and the Wall Street Journal, but still . . .
Bob Loblaw
@burnspbesq:
There is a logical link. It’s called, stop breaking the law assholes. Maybe if world governments didn’t engage in such perpetual illegalities, there’d be no need for the Assanges of the world.
When he blew the lid off the Kenyan voting fraud scandal that toppled a government, should he have been blamed for any resulting deaths from any resulting hypothetical hostilities? When he showed those air cav boys gunning down reporters, was it his responsibility to protect military silence as a matter of “national security?”
His actions may or may not have resulted in undue loss of life. He was wrong to publish unredacted info. Their actions absolutely have resulted in undue loss of life. They are wrong to warmonger. There’s no moral equivalence. You want to stop Julian Assange? Stop doing evil.
burnspbesq
@Bob Loblaw:
Speaking of taking due care, you might want to take due care to avoid attributing to me views that I do not hold and have never expressed, either here or in any other forum.
All criminals should be held accountable for their crimes. Period. Full stop. It doesn’t always happen. But “somebody else did something terrible and got away with it” isn’t a defense.
Julian Assange is a criminal. The appropriate time to take into account the important public service that he arguably may have performed is at SENTENCING.
Clear now?
Bob Loblaw
@burnspbesq:
Then I can conclude you believe that Barack Obama should get the cell next to Assange, then, correct? He has no legal authority to be running civilian lethal operations in Pakistani jurisdiction, no matter how broad a reading of the AUMF you want to offer. Since we’re in the business of indicting criminal behavior across international lines and all…
NobodySpecial
Shorter Burnsie:
Prosecuting Americans for causing civilian deaths in other countries is too hard and must be avoided at all costs. However, prosecuting Aussies for potentially causing civilian deaths is not only desireable but we should make public examples of all who defy our military.
burnspbesq
@Bob Loblaw:
If you want to know my views, ask me. Don’t concoct some bullshit leading question.
Even if my answer to your bullshit leading question were “yes,” I would wonder why you are singling out Obama. Shouldn’t every head of every state that has sent troops to Afghanistan face the same charges? And if the prosector determines that due to lack of evidence, lack of jury appeal, or other factors, there is not a reasonable likelihood of a successful prosecution, then what?
jurassicpork
Jesus, this guy’s a living character out of a Steig Larsen Millennium novel.
burnspbesq
@NobodySpecial:
Shorter Nobody Special:
I make shit up.
Bob Loblaw
@burnspbesq:
I didn’t use the word ‘Afghanistan’ anywhere, did I Mr. Lawyer Man Sir?
I said Pakistan. Did the sovereign nation of Pakistan enter into joint military operations with the United States? And if not, is there any legal sanctioning whatsoever of the civilian-private drone campaigns in that jurisdiction? Are the people of Pakistan able to challenge the legality of these attacks, and can the families of victims of civilian slayings contest the actions of the United States and its civilian leadership under conspiracy murder charges? No drone op is allowed without executive signoff after all. Could Mr. Obama and Mr. Panetta be indicted on conspiracy murder charges for their actions in the Pakistani borderlands or not?
homerhk
Everyone, you may not agree with Burnspbesq says but he’s not wrong in that someone can be subject to US legal jurisdiction even if one is not a US citizen or even located in the US. If the alleged criminal act has an affect in the US then the US court has jurisdiction. I seriously doubt that there is any court in the US that would refuse jurisdiction in the event that Assange was indicted because there really isn’t much more than can be done to connect a crime with the US than have the subject matter of the crime be US classified information.
Chad n Freude, I think you may be referring to me re the link to the Time article and in response to Mistermix when even Amnesty International and Reporters without Borders are calling Assange incredibly irresponsible then I am not sure we have to wait till there is evidence of someone actually being killed before we can make that claim.
donquijoterocket
@Scott:
I’m waiting for the tender concern for those assets of Valerie Plame’s network which was working on nuclear nonproliferation issues who were burned Novakula is, of course, excused but that leaves Deadeye Dickless Cheney, Rove, an extended tour for scooter Libby and doubtless many others.
That’s one that’s never been properly brought to light and undoubtedly there’s a large chunk of the Powers That Be who would be more than pleased to see it left that way in perpetuity.
Silver
@Bob Loblaw:
Yes. Being a war criminal is a requirement of the office of President of the United States of America.
Keith
Does this make Assange’s future biography title:
“The Man who Kicked Over the Hornet’s Nest”
or something like that?
HyperIon
@mistermix wrote:
Nitpicker.
HyperIon
@burnspbesq wrote:
So….
Is it irresponsible to speculate?
It would be irresponsible not to speculate!
liberty60
Since Steve Doocy and Erick Son of Erick are journalists, is Mr. Assange really entitled to join such an august group of fellows?