I sent the pro-Burlington Coat Factory guy from Weekly Standard a bunch of crazy questions today but this is the only one I got him to take:
Sharia law: I have read that the imam of the ground zero mosque practices Sharia law at home, including stonings. How does that square with the liberal media’s portrayal of him as a “moderate Muslim”?
John McCormack: That cannot be true–I think we’d have heard about it by now if Imam Rauf had stoned someone. He seems to be moderate on some issues, but he does respect “Vilayet-i-faqih, which means the rule of the jurisprudent” in Iran. It would be nice if Rauf could clarify what he meant by his apparent endorsement of the Iranian regime.
There’s still time left so maybe he’ll get to the one about the Muslim currency, called the “Allar”, that they use at mosques. But it’s not looking good.
Omnes Omnibus
How did someone manage to take that question seriously? Never mind.
ronin122
Well wingnuts usually fail to understand irony, so not surprised that question was actually answered.
4tehlulz
Some say that Bill Kristol practices the laws of kashrut at home; does this mean he wants to take away our god-given American right to bacon?
cleek
i like how “conservatives” like Palin scream “Sharia!!” while demanding that we base our own laws on the Bible.
consistency is the hobgoblin of evil liberals!
JGabriel
I would really like to know where all these conservative wingnuts who are always whinging about state’s rights think they get the authority to tell us in NYC what to do.
As far as I’m concerned, those assholes can go fuck themselves with the corncob they rode in on.
.
Crashman
You’re a one man, WAPO chat wrecking crew, DougJ.
ellaesther
@cleek: Duh. The Bible is God’s word. Sharia is an abomination. I thought you were keeping up!
Cris
I love the image of practicing stonings at home.
Bill Murray
I know some people that got stoned at ground zero
Breezeblock
What a weasley-mouthed fucktard McCormack is. Nice to see a “reporter” has all the facts to hand.
JGabriel
4tehlulz:
Yes, but not because he’s Jewish. It’s just because that’s the way Bill Kristol rolls; if there’s a god-given right, Billy wants to take it away.
.
Michael D.
The latest from Conor Friedersdorf:
Since when were any of these people concerned about the size of givernment or the national debt (prior to a black person adding to it)?
If Conor Friedersdorf weren’t half-way good-looking, he’d have nothing going for him.
Southern Beale
Oh cripes. What is this “Burlington Coat Factory” thing about? Another rw manufactured fauxtroversy from Frank Luntz’s Little Shoppe of Bullshit or is this one for real?
Or do I even want to know?
Breezeblock
BTW, a friend of mine was near GZ with out of town visitors in April 2002, saw a sign outside a bar that said “closest beer to Ground Zero”.
At least someone has their priorities straight.
4tehlulz
@Southern Beale: You don’t. I recommend looking at pictures of cats until December.
Butch
The Rude Pundit has some quotes today from this supposedly “radical” imam. Worth a read.
ellaesther
A) I have actually worked w/ Imam Feisal, and with his wife, Daisy Khan. They were involved with a project I was worked on for about a year, called A Different Future, aimed at raising the profile of Israeli and Palestinian groups that work toward co-existence. I don’t remember ever speaking with Imam Feisal, but I do remember speaking with Daisy, and she was lovely. To my mind, both that experience and the fact that Cordoba House is about cross-cultural co-existence suggests to me that they don’t want to take our freedoms, but heck, who knows? I just thought I’d throw it out there.
B) Imam Feisal has to clarify his stance on Vilayet-i-faqih – why, exactly? So that a group of Muslims living in Manhattan may exercise their first amendment rights and worship as they see fit? Honestly, why does that demand even make sense to anyone?
C) I’m assuming that you all, as good Jon Stewart-bots, saw the Daily Show last night, thus learning that three months before condemning Imam Feisal for suggesting that American behavior might be tied to terrorist attacks, Glenn Beck said that American behavior might be tied to terrorist attacks. If not, here you go: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade And you’re welcome.
Allison W.
@Michael D.:
did you see the line about Obama’s excesses?
cat48
@DOUGJ Gene Robinson has a chat right now I think. Go ask him why he continually pimps himself out on Morning Ho.
MikeJ
As a liberal I want free access to abortion, gay marriage, and sharia law. Or so the teabaggers tell me.
ellaesther
@Southern Beale: Cordoba House is to be built in a former Burlington Coat Factory.
You know: Hallowed ground.
PurpleGirl
@Southern Beale: You know about the “Ground Zero Mosque”…. well, actually the backers bought a former Burlington Coat Factory store/building as the site for the Islamic Cultural Center/Cordoba House Initiative. Beyond that, I think you can imagine what is happening.
Frank
Why stop there? Why doesn’t the Weekly Standard do an investigation regarding Reagan’s apparent endorsement of Saddam Hussein back in the early 1980’s? Or is their opinion that it is OK for American Republican President’s to support scum but not for Arabs?
trollhattan
@Cris:
I immediately envisioned a “Holy Mohammed (PBUH) Home-Stoning Kit” advertised on QVC.
Michael D.
@Allison W.: I did. I just assumed it was about Michelle’s vacation or gym membership.
scav
@cleek: But, you see, we are a Christian nation and so Christianists have prior claims and everyone else is just agitating for special rights and unfair govt. protections. Of course, the Christians in China are valiant seekers of freedom of conscience and religion and don’t give me no guff about it being an atheist or traditionally Buddhist /Taoist / Confucianist country because that just cuts no ice. Claire et logique, non?
NobodySpecial
I piss off lots of rightwingers when I suggest that we institute a federal law that disallows any place of worship within 5,000 feet of a terrorist act that shares it’s religion with the claimed religion of the terrorists.
Oh, they love it well enough until I point out that there won’t be a single church within a mile of the Federal Building in Oklahoma city or within a mile of the site of the Atlanta Olympics.
Then when they start to whine ‘That’s different’, I get to smack them with ‘The hell it is.’
Violet
@ellaesther:
You never know, maybe they had the Coat of Many Colors.
licensed to kill time
♪♫ Well they’ll stone when you’re sitting in your home
They’ll stone you when you’re there all alone ♪♫
May be a market for a Do-It-Yourself-Home-Stoning Kit(tm) ?
DougJ your idea for the Allar is brilliant. Made me snortle!
eta:shit, did NOT see trollhattan’s comment!
Violet
@NobodySpecial:
I don’t understand why the Democrats aren’t making this point all over the place. It’s a win-win-win, as far as I can tell. It shows the Republicans to be hypocrites. It shows the teatards and their ilk to be captive to fear. It shows respect for the Constitution (and they should be pointing that out every chance they get). It shows minorities of every type (race, ethnic background, religion, etc.) that the Democrats will take a stand to support their rights.
But they’d have to be united and determined and not back down. And these are Democrats I’m talking about. Pigs will fly first.
PanAmerican
Juggalos stoned Tila Tequila for not showing them her tits.
Maude
Dougj
you outdo yourself every time you ask a question of a very serious person.
It makes it worth getting up in the morning
Jim
I just read from Paul Rosenberg on OpenLeft that apparently this is now a failed presidency. And it feels like half the comments in any given thread there are talking about how Obama isn’t smart and was a horrible professor and stuff.
One thing I was thinking recently, specifically wrt OpenLeft and FireDogLake, is if you take their front-pagers and commenters at face value, they have to be the most worthless and unsuccessful activists ever. When is the last time they’ve had a substantive policy victory? Why are they even still advocating? Have they won anything during the Obama administration?
The answer is, or at least should be, yes, they have. But you’d never know it by reading their posts.
As a side note, I should say I am really looking forward to the liberal blogosphere when the 2012 race starts kicking up. The crazy handwringing over whether or not to endorse Obama will be a sight to behold.
NobodySpecial
@Violet: Well, the simple electoral math is this: The rightwingers already have the Reps and the teatards in their pockets, and no fancy logic is a-gonna change ’em. Democrats already have the minorities in their corner (Even, ironically, the Arab-Americans who until 2008 were pretty Republican in their voting patterns), and the independents aren’t going to be paying much attention to a mosque in NYC when they’re worried about having to boil tree roots for dinner.
It wins a news cycle (maybe, given that the MSM is firmly in the Teatard corner), but better would be for Obama to keep hitting them on the ‘we can’t go backward’ stuff.
Davis X. Machina
@ellaesther: It’s worth noting that the official position of the Catholic church, from the arrival of the first English Catholics in Maryland in the 17th century down to the middle of the 20th century was opposition to a secular state. The aim of every good Catholic was supposed in theory to be the creation a Catholic state — which would work very like a Wilayat-e Faqih, if you will.
The heresy of Americanism was actually announced.
In the interim, U.S. Catholics were allowed to build churches, educate youth, run for and hold offices, etc, regardless of the theory. In fact, Kennedy’s election came before Dignitatis Humanae was issued.
Mister Papercut
DougJ, you’re my herooooo… [/Cameron Frye voice]
ellaesther
OH OH! And look at this!
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/08/should_go_great.php?ref=fpblg
Michael D.
Fair & Balanced
Davis X. Machina
{original in moderation — and I can’t figure out why}
@ellaesther: It’s worth noting that the official position of the Catholic church, from the arrival of the first English Catholics in Maryland in the 17th century down to the middle of the 20th century was opposition to a secular state. The aim of every good Catholic was supposed in theory to be the creation of a Catholic state—which would work very like a Wilayat-e Faqih, if you will.
The heresy of Americanism was actually announced.
In the interim, U.S. Catholics were allowed to build churches, educate youth, run for and hold offices, etc, regardless of the theory. In fact, Kennedy’s election came before Dignitatis Humanae was even issued.
me
@Cris: Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah
El Cid
I think you should ask if Helen Thomas was behind this and if it’s true that Obama will be secretly helping Al Qa’ida to set up a suicide bomber hang-gliding training base on top of the new One World Trade Center when it’s finished 1200 years from now.
jl
“John McCormack: …but he does respect “Vilayet-i-faqih, which means the rule of the jurisprudent” in Iran. It would be nice if Rauf could clarify what he meant by his apparent endorsement of the Iranian regime.”
I see McCormack cannot resist getting in I think is a very sleazy smear in response to your question.
What does McCormack mean by ‘Iranian regime’. I think to most people this would encourage confusion of clerical rule with the Ahmadinejad regime.
Now, I don’t think that clerical rule of any kind is a good idea. But, we know that the clerics have been about the only thing that has moderated the Ahmadinejad regime’s behavior, at least domestically in Iran since their election.
Can you imagine a similarly tendentious and sleazy goofball on the left getting platform in the Washington Post?
ed drone
@Violet:
If that store is empty, perhaps it is ‘hollowed ground,’ anyway.
Ed
PurpleGirl
Have National Geographic channel on as background noise. Just heard: a new show in September (air date Sept. 6): Giuliani’s 9/11.
wilfred
All Muslims are required to participate in Sharia law. Think of it like Muslim jury duty. You get a letter written on lambskin indicating where and when you need to be some where – stoning, hand-cutting off, occasional beheading, etc.
After it’s over you get a little Persian gold memento. Sometimes they serve mint tea with little kibi and falafel, and halwa if it’s an infidel.
It’s a hassle but it’s part of community service.
DougJ
@cat48:
Shit, I was at lunch. I’ll get him on that next time he does one.
Davis X. Machina
@Jim: The official line, held by all correctly oriented cadres, is that the Democratic Party as it presently exists can never achieve the requisite degree of discipline, or a unified vision, and focus on true progressive values until it frees itself from distractions and encumbrances like winning elections, having a majority, passing legislation, or governing.
Reduction of the bag of cats that presently calls itself the “Democratic Party” down to the cold, hard, real Democratic party, and not winning elections, is the only thing that will save the country.
Pasquinade
LOON WATCH
http://www.loonwatch.com/
Taqiyya: The Ultimate Intellectual Cop-out
SpencerWatch.com: New Website Takes on anti-Muslim bigot Robert Spencer
Pamela Geller: The Looniest Blogger Ever
Davis X. Machina
A new outrage: Even though 9/11 hijackers came from Hamburg, the Goethe-Institut is allowed to continue to operate only blocks from Ground Zero.
flukebucket
I am having the shittiest day ever but I checked in right quick and saw reference to the new Muslim currency called the “Allar” and man I will laugh for the rest of the day I don’t care how much more shitty it gets.
I love this place.
ellaesther
@Davis X. Machina: Ooh! I know why you’re in moderation!
Too many links. Three links is all that WP will allow.
But: Wow, I didn’t actually know that! I suppose that’s what stood behind a lot of the anti-Kennedy “he’s a papist!” hate back in the day. Which, you know, we all know how well stirring up a lot of baseless hatred against that President worked out.
Zifnab
@Davis X. Machina:
Blanche Lincoln isn’t voting in the interests of elections, majorities, passing legislation, or governing when she holds up health care legislation. Joe Lieberman’s staunch defense of Israel has nothing to do with appeasing his voter base. Dianne Feinstein’s love of military spending has nothing to do with strengthening foreign or domestic agendas.
Money is on the table. These folks are picking it up. They are corporate tools, more interested in serving the moneyed interests than the voters. Pretending that these guys play 11-dimensional chess while they slash effective regulations and cripple popular programs really just hides the bottom line.
The Democrats who are giving us the most trouble are the ones taking the most corporate money. The end.
The Moar You Know
@PanAmerican: Fucking ladyboys, how do they work?
cleek
@Zifnab:
spoken like a true apostate.
the correct response is: “My party, right or wrong”
Davis X. Machina
@Zifnab: The only way to win, is to lose. The caves of Yenan are this way…..
Roger Moore
@cleek:
There’s nothing inconsistent about that. They don’t say that it’s objectionable to base our laws on God’s law; they just disagree on the authoritative source of God’s law. If they’re inconsistent about anything, it’s that they are unwilling to admit that basing our laws on the Bible would require shredding the Constitution.
maus
@Violet:
Yes, but the Democrats are hypocrites as well.
MikeF
I don’t suppose that reader email included in Fallows’ latest Iran/Goldberg post from “Douglas Jones” is your work as well?
numbskull
@Davis X. Machina: Hey Davis, what did you do today to get a Democrat elected?
Oh, you posted dumb-assed comments on a blog?
Kewl. That’ll show ’em.
Pangloss
I have no opinion on the mosque. What really bothers me is the Methodist church only two blocks away from Ground Zero. And the University of Phoenix right across the street.
Davis X. Machina
@numbskull: Nothing today, sorry. Still recovering from the partying after the Cumberland Co. Democratic Committee do at the Portland Sea Dogs game a while back. Things slow down in August.
DougJ
@MikeF:
Holy shit. That idiot took it.
mds
Similarly, it would be nice if American Catholics could clarify how their acceptance of canon law and papal authority are apparent endorsements of the current president of Venezuela.
Well, a Democratic-controlled Senate has already been pretty hit-or-miss on the last two, and all the pearl-clutching over the deficit with unemployment above nine percent is probably going to take care of the first two no matter what us “cadres” do. No, wait, Republicans are opening up a bigger gap in the generic Congressional ballot polling because independents and uninspired rank-and-file Democrats are being visited every night by visions of Jane Fucking Hamsher. She can only be dispelled if internet commenters clap harder.
DougJ
@DougJ:
Keep it on the DL though, I want to see if Friedersdorf takes it too. I sent it to both of them.
Nick
@Zifnab:
I think you need to talk to more Democratic voters. Especially @ the Lieberman one.
fasteddie9318
@Pangloss:
Similarly, I have tremendous objections to the location of the center of the Mormon “religion,” assuming one wants to define it as such and not as a nationality, way of life, or cult, being located, as it is, a scant 300 miles from the site of the 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre, perpetrated by Mormons possibly up to and including the head of the “church,” Brigham Young. I call upon Mormon leadership to sympathize with those who were caused such pain by that unjustified terrorist act, or by reading the Wikipedia page devoted to said act, and relocate their headquarters a more compassionate distance from the site, such as Greenland, or perhaps on the far side of the moon.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Jim:
The thing is, it has always been thus. Read about just about any progressive admin., from Lincoln to LBJ (with both Roosevelts sandwiched in between). It is always the same – there are always highly visible and noisy critics for whom it is all worthless, too many sellouts, the leadership is cowardly, if only I were running the show!, etc., etc. And on policy grounds they are right, but politically that isn’t how it works. And eventually even after all the cowardly compromises and sellouts, things somehow do get better, despite it all.
So the Greek chorus chanting: shame and sellout from stage left is both a necessary part of our political economy, to keep pressure on the powers that be, and a permanent fixture of the landscape. So you might as well get used to them.
If they really do drive you nuts, then serve yourself a dish of cold revenge by looking forward with relish to what the same cast and crew will be saying in another 40 years from now, when they castigate the useless progressive leadership of the Dems circa 2050 for not having brass balls like back in the good old days of the Obama admin. Because the stuff that is being written today about why-oh-why can’t our present day leadership be more like LBJ and FDR and Teddy is just about as silly and ahistorical as that.
Cliff
@DougJ:
LOL!!!
ahem, … golf clap .. nicely done sir.
Mike
Perhaps you should have asked about the theonomy of Christian Reconstructionism.
“Theonomy: applying the general principles of Old Testament and New Testament Law to the corresponding family, church and civil governments (compare with theocracy); opposed to church-state separation of any kind, believing the state is under God and is therefore commanded to enforce God’s Law.”
Stoning is definitely Old Testament Law. Got my rocks right here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
mds
You misspelled “Republican” again, Nick.
Cain
Maybe the community center dude has a big bowl or something and it’s like full of stuff and like wow, I bet when he lights it, it’ll be like… cool and stuff. oh man, I totally TOTALLY want a community center now. Especially if I can get stoned there if I do something naughty.
cain
Josh
Shorter Nick: “It’s de Jooz!” ‘Cause he saw dozens of guys in Brooklyn who totally support whatever Bibi’s doin’.
Jim Stockton
I don’t find this string of comments very helpful. After weeks of wrangling and absorbing information, I understand that there is a legal right, that the two sites of contention cannot be seen one by the other (hence no “in your face” edifice, which contains a mosque but is not simply a mosque). I understand that sharia can be taught with or without a mosque, and that there are varying degrees of adherence. There will always be radicals and malcontents, but we will survive.
Ladd Prier
It seems to me that we have been invaded once again by a group determined to overthrow us sooner or later by any means possible, including out-populating us and shaming our so-called elite into following an insane policy of religious tolerance when the religion in question incorporates beliefs allowing the murder of non-believers. I betcha there was early editing of the Koran to water down the evidence when muslim migration was attempted.
Even the suggestion of such beliefs should disallow their entry. Witness such matters in the UK and France. I’m not convinced that there are any moderate Muslims; just those who haven’t the stones for more active pursuit of the global caliphate and who prefer to hang in the hutch and boff the captive wife instead. Need more? What of the nearly global murderous reactions to CARTOONS depicting mohamed less than repectfully? Where’s the moderation in that?