From the NYTimes, “Technology Leads More Park Visitors Into Trouble“:
… “Because of having that electronic device, people have an expectation that they can do something stupid and be rescued,” said Jackie Skaggs, spokeswoman for Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming.
__
“Every once in a while we get a call from someone who has gone to the top of a peak, the weather has turned and they are confused about how to get down and they want someone to personally escort them,” Ms. Skaggs said. “The answer is that you are up there for the night.”
[…] __
The park service itself has put technology to good use in countering the occasional unruliness of visitors. Last summer, several men who thought they had managed to urinate undetected into the Old Faithful geyser in Yellowstone were surprised to be confronted by rangers shortly after their stunt. It turns out that the park had installed a 24-hour camera so people could experience Old Faithful’s majesty online. Viewers spotted the men in action and called to alert the park.
However little you may be looking forward to the rest of your Monday, there is this consolation: You’re not as much of an idiot as these guys.
Or if you are, at least you don’t have people all over the World Wide Web making fun of your wee-wee.
asiangrrlMN
Thanks, AL. You put a smile on my face. That story about Old Faithful is both amusing and disgusting.
Yutsano
That’s an awful egregious assumption. Not that this applies to me personally, I’m just sayin’. The Interwebs can be an awfully cruel place, especially in the age of ChatrouIette.
BTW AL I’m thinking that maybe all that’s left out here is me and wifey. So forgive us if we dominate your thread for awhile.
monkeyboy
Is there an actual online video that shows their wee-wees, for the target of our fun making of?
Newsouthzach
I’d be shocked if rangers would actually leave someone above treeline without shelter or a way down. I used to do some volunteer rescue work in NH and have some stories of stupidity that you would not believe. If I had my druthers, people who activated rescue without a serious emergency — I.e. Danger to life or limb — would be rescued directly to the county jail, then billed for the expense.
–newsouthzach +3
Anne Laurie
@monkeyboy: Hey, I can make fun of their wee-wees in absentia to my own satisfaction. But someone who wanted to google ‘Old Faithful video feed’ could probably find something on YouTube…
Yutsano
@Newsouthzach:
Hell these days even life and limb isn’t enough to keep you from being billed for the expense. Remember the case of that kid who got stuck on Mount Washington? They charged his parents something like $17,000 for his rescue. I’m too lazy to do teh Google right now, but you just refreshed my brain on that incident.
JGabriel
If the geyser had gone off, we’d be reading about these guys at the Darwin Awards. (It wouldn’t need to kill them to qualify, just leave them unable to reproduce.)
.
SRW1
On a tangentially related note: The German government is planning to introduce a law that will prohibit employers to install secret surveillance cameras everywhere at the workplace. In contrast to the current situation, taking a wee-wee in an unsupervised fashion will then be legally protected. (Warning: Text in German)
JGabriel
SRW1:
Bah! That’s just more European SociaIist Regulation!
What good is it being Employer if you can’t watch your peasants take a wee-wee? It’s almost like it’s not good to be king anymore!
.
dmsilev
It’s a tough call, actually. For me, today is Moving Day, and I’m currently staring at a veritable ocean of cardboard boxes which soon will be transported down two flights of stairs and into a truck. Then, at the other end, up three flights, at which point the madness known as “where did I pack that thing which I need right now?” begins.
And a special thank-you to AT&T, for shipping a DSL modem to my new place a week or so before I actually start living there.
dms
SRW1
@JGabriel:
Whow, aristocrats are not wee-wee-inhibited with other males watching. They are our betters after all!
Onkel Bob
@Yutsano: More like fined him $25 K. But that’s New Hampshire and they are just being plain mean. (I thought the kid had a case against the AMC who gave him faulty information. Heck it’s been 30+ years since I hiked the White Mountains and I remember enough not to try the bee-line trail in early May. The kid got bum advice from people considered “experts,” and it cost him dearly. I wonder if that’s ever happened before?)
When I was on the last leg of the John Muir Trail, in the shadow of Mt. Whitney, I ran into a ranger, who greeted me with “Are you…” When I replied no, he ran off and yelled “if you meet some one ask if they are…” (I’ve forgotten the names) What makes this poignant is that this was immediately before a Sierra Nevada thunderstorm (It was a daily event for the previous 6 days, T-storms from 3 – 6p) and this ranger was going searching for these people in that rain, hail, and lightning. He apparently found the climbers as the next morning I saw a helicopter airlifting body bags off the southern slope. The ranger risked his life and limb for that recovery. It’s what they do.
As for the Zion NP incident, I’m not surprised. That place really attracts the stupid, like people who rappel down canyons at night. (The guy fell 100′ because the rope didn’t reach the bottom and he tried to free fall.)
debbie
My favorite bit is the hikers who necessitated a helicopter rescue because they thought their water tasted too salty.
The Parks Service ought to create a brochure of commonsense tips that’s handed out at the park entrances. And then ban any violators from the park.
Phoenix Woman
Long as we’re talking about wilderness stupidity, mind if I bring up the Grifter from Wasilla? She – or her ghostwriter – Tweeted something the other day about feminism being hijacked by a “cackle of rads”, utterly ignoring the fact that every major feminist pioneer was or is a radical by most any definition one can name.
Anyway, one of my buddies, Tild of Tildology, has come up with the Cackle of Rads membership card! Check it out: http://tildology.com/2010/08/20/cackle-of-rads-membership-card/
magurakurin
@Newsouthzach:
or the United States could institute a system of rescue insurance like they have in Europe. Go on a climb, take a hike or ski off piste without it and you pay full price for the rescue if you need one. I climbed a lot in the Pacific Northwest some years back. The Park Service and the National Forests had a stupid, nonsensical policy toward climbing then. I can only imagine how cogged up it is now. They basically were in the process of making technical climbing illegal even though the vast majority of rescues were of day hikers and hunters. And most of them were rescued by volunteers, who consisted mostly of…climbers. Actually climbers were(and I guess still are) paying a terrible price in loss of access thanks to the media labeling every jackass who found his way onto a mountain “a climber.” I’m glad I got the climbs in that I did.
Zach
I think the Balloon Juice collective needs to reconsider its stance on the never forget mosque in light of new evidence – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w
greennotGreen
@Zach:
Bah! You started my Monday off on a really sour note.
As far as the idiots who peed in Old Faithful – I don’t know about that geyser in particular, but there are informative placards and pamphlets everywhere in Yellowstone explaining that the various geothermic features are very delicate in their balance, and any contamination may disrupt that balance and seriously damage or destroy the feature. Old Faithful is probably too big to be seriously harmed by a little bit of pee, but those guys didn’t know that. I hope the rangers threw the book at them.
Emma
OK, it was stupid thing to do — geysers can host fragile ecosystems — but…. BWAHAHAHAHAH!
New Yorker
I never fail to be amazed at the utter stupidity of some people, especially when it comes to such unforgiving natural environments. The NPS should put a big sign at the entrance to each of its parks saying “This is not Disneyland. If you do something stupid, you may leave this park in a body bag.”
soonergrunt
@Teejay:
I view the site in compatibility mode in IE8 and it’s still broken unless I disable javascript. It’s bad JS from one of the ads on the site.
Balloon-juice is the only site I visit that has problems in IE8, and therefore is the only site I visit in Firefox.
J.W. Hamner
I’m kind of shocked that they get cell phone coverage in Yellowstone. I wouldn’t let cellphone towers anywhere near that place.
pto892
I am an old school backpacker who owns the basic SPOT device and am very careful when using it to send out a message for fear of activating the 911 service. It’s a separate button, surrounded by a rimmed edge and requires holding it down for 3 seconds to activate, but an idiot could easily activate it. What I do use it for is sending out a canned e-mail to my wife stating “I am in camp” (I backpack, she doesn’t), and the tracking service is also nice. Technology like the SPOT and handheld GPS have caused huge problems in the backcountry-people use these things as a substitute for experience and end up in situations they just aren’t prepared for. Like the eldery gent I cam across one time geocaching-he knew the geocache he was looking for was 2 miles away but didn’t realize that there was a 2000 foot drop (which he would have to climb out, in the dark) to get to it. I gently persuaded him that it was in his best interest to go back, he had no gear for a night hike and a 16 oz bottle of water. Plus he was wearing street shoes…cripes.
The SPOT people offer rescue insurance as part of their package of services. Google Maps offers a topo view and can give altitude information for coordinates, 10 minutes worth of work can save someone a world of hurt. Most people nowadays can’t even read a topo map, much less plot a course using map and compass. A compass never needs batteries, and will always work IF you know what you’re doing. Throw in some Micropur tablets, REI waterproof matches, a large trash bag, and a whistle and you’ve taken a huge step towards surviving a surprise night out in the woods.
soonergrunt
@New Yorker: People actually go to Yellowstone thinking the wildlife are audio-animatronic robots. And then you have stories like this dumbass.
Walker
@pto892:
How does that work without bankrupting the company?
pto892
@Walker: I don’t know, and would suggest you ask them. I haven’t paid for it and have no interest in doing so.
Phoenix Woman
@pto892: The ironic thing is that I’d rather be carrying around a topo map than most of the electronic crap these folks use. Topo maps are lighter and they’re not rendered inoperative by a fall in a stream.
There was a story in the mid-’90s in a computer mag that mocked a Marine Corps general for his dubious stance towards a computer mapping system that was essentially a jumped-up laptop that weighed between ten and fifteen pounds and cost $20,000. He’d taken a sample of the device out to a firing range, along with a typical hex map. Then he pulled out his Government-issue Colt and put a hole in each. As he said afterwards: “A computer with a bullet in it is a brick. A map with a bullet in it is still a map.” Plus, it’s at least ten pounds lighter, so the troops using said map can carry ten or more pounds of things like food and water that the poor schmoes who were issued the laptop couldn’t. You have to have a really good reason for making a soldier forego ten pounds of food or water, and that machine wasn’t it. Of course, now that tiny, lightweight iPod touches and iPhones do thousands of times more things than the jumped-up laptop could do and for a fraction of the price, the argument’s changed somewhat. But still, one shouldn’t assume that each new shiny bit of technology is an automatic panacea for everything.
soonergrunt
@pto892:
I used to teach land navigation in the Army. The courses are always relatively small geographic areas like 1 mile x 1mile for the beginner’s course for example, so it’s relatively safe. People would be surprised at how easy it is to get totally lost with a GPS device if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Even with the small enclosed courses, we’d make them take full water load, an MRE, and some kind of sleeping gear like a poncho and liner. Have a truck driving up and down the road flashing hazard lights and honking horn and they’re told to never cross the hardball road, but still they end up two miles away to the southeast, across three hardball roads on a course that had them moving northward because they used a GPS they weren’t totally familiar with instead of the compass or they simply didn’t pay attention in the classroom.
Technology can turn people into idiots outside of the house.
soonergrunt
@Phoenix Woman: The GPS device we have now is called the DAGR and it’s a lot more capable than a Garmin unit you’d buy at REI. That, of course, requires a lot more training to use properly as a result.
I learned land nav back in the day when there was only one GPS for the entire company and it didn’t work very well because there weren’t enough satellites. So I learned map and compass from guys who literally lived and died by it. I used to teach my soldiers map and compass and they’d ask “well, we have a GPS so what do we need this for?”
I’d take the battery and give it back and say “Now you have an $1,800 paperweight, and you still need to get to the assembly area for dinner.”
They didn’t like it, but they learned.
pto892
@Phoenix Woman: You are correct in every way, I never head out without a topo of the area that I’m hiking in unless it’s my home territory. The SPOT is mainly reassurance for my wife that I can get rescued if needed, and the tracking service is an interesting way for someone to follow my progress. There are plenty of online services (such as http://www.digital-topo-maps.com) that can print out a customized topo map of any part of the USA plus the USGS gives the pdf versions of their fabulous topo maps away for free. For $20 I can get a 24K topo printed on waterproof paper that covers just the area I’m interested in, I would rather have that than a $300 GPS. I do carry a GPS when backpacking but rarely use it, it’s more a backup than anything else.
Last year I did Philmont with my son and one of the adult advisors just had to bring his iPhone on the trail. Completely useless item for ten days, the only time he got a signal was when we summitted Baldy, which we cleared off of in twenty minutes because of an approaching thunderstorm. It’s a poor substitute for a real GPS, and not even close to a paper map in usefulness.
pto892
@soonergrunt:
That is a short and sweet way to put it. Can I steal this?
newsouthzach
@Yutsano:
Look, I’m all in favor of making stupidity a capital crime. That being said, it isn’t, yet, and as such, I don’t want to discourage people who are merely stupid from calling in the cavalry when they get themselves into some shit. And, again, I say that as a former member of the cavalry. I am 100 percent OK with saving people’s lives, no matter how they got themselves into danger. What I’m not OK with is airlifting people out of the Grand Canyon just because their water tastes a little salty. I am even less OK with dropping them some water and sending them on their way. WTF? They should have been required to walk their sorry asses back up to the rim the first time they set off a beacon, not the third.
–newsouthzach +8ish
Omnes Omnibus
@soonergrunt: I don’t often get a chance to do this, so here it goes: GPS at the company level? That’s nothing. I learned my land nav at Benning before units had GPS, you know, back when Christ was a corporal. If you wanted to get someplace, you damn well used a map and compass.
newsouthzach
@soonergrunt:
No kidding. A couple of people got themselves killed off Flinders Islet about a year ago because they trusted their GPS too much. Late night, one guy driving the boat, only 4 satellites in view, most of them low on the horizon, and naturally they ended up hitting Australia. There was a guy keeping watch on the bow, but by the time he could see the rocks and yell to bear away it was too late. So, I guess technically they died on Flinders Islet.
There is no substitute for old-school navigation. GPS in particular can get you into a world of shit, because, while it will give you its best estimate, it generally gives you no clue what the error bars are. People die from this more often than you would think.
–newsouthzach +8
BrYan
The office right wing nutjob is loudly whispering about something going on in Colorado. A quick main stream media scan doesn’t show anything, any idea?
soonergrunt
@pto892: be my guest. The corallary is that technology can make people into idiots inside the house as well. One need only read the internets to see that.
newsouthzach
@Yutsano:
Ah, hell, the edit time has expired. I want to make clear that I’m ambivalent about billing people for rescues executed in life-threatening situations. If you’re going to die, I absolutely want you to call for help, without worrying about what it’s going to cost. I suspect you’d learn a valuable lesson from the experience either way. Nobody likes to be almost-dead. What I condemn without reservation is people calling for an airlift due to blisters, or a broken toe, or whatever. Dislocated shoulder? Maybe if circulation is compromised. Any sort of fall > 5 feet? Absolutely; almost nobody knows how to clear C-spine injuries in the backcountry. Twisted ankle? Suck it up, cupcake, and know that if you call for a chopper, you’re footing the bill.
–newsouthzach +8-10
burnspbesq
@dmsilev:
I would reserve that special think-you until I knew the DSL service at the new place was working properly. This is AT&T we’re talking about, is it not?
soonergrunt
@Omnes Omnibus: As I said, the GPS we had when I started out didn’t work well at all. Since everybody knew map/compass, we didn’t use it.
I remember the First Sergeant setting that first-gen unit on the hood of his truck and it taking something like three hours to get a fix that was good within 100 meters.
The DAGR can get a fix within 1 meter in less than 90 seconds from cold start, and typically within 20 seconds.
Maps don’t run out of batteries, though.
soonergrunt
@BrYan:
Colorado News, last hour from Google:
1 prison escape in Sterling, violent felon on the loose; the state got a $950,000 grant to offset energy costs for poor people; four people involved in shooting in Colo Springs.
Not much that I can see.
Update: After changing view to ‘last 24 hours’ we find that there was a riot after an Earth, Wind, and Fire concert in Fort Collins on Saturday, and the teabaggers think they’ve got a shot at the CO-3 congressional district.
Omnes Omnibus
@soonergrunt: I sometimes get mocked by younger relatives and friends for carrying a map on trips and using it for route planning. You know, we have a Garmin, why would we need it. Of course, karma works out such that the Garmin goes Crazy Eddie, or there has been construction that changed the roads and the GPS hasn’t been updated to reflect it, etc., and I get to feel superior.
Zach
@greennotGreen: “Bah! You started my Monday off on a really sour note.”
Humming the song on the way to the bus this morning (using public transit; obviously a socialist and not the song’s target) I realized the chorus ironically lifts its melody from “American Idiot” …
newsouthzach
@soonergrunt:
Looked at DAGR. Want want want! 90 second cold start is spectacular!
Also, too: 1m accuracy in Southern hemisphere would be sweet. Too bad I’m not DOD-affiliated.
Chad N Freude
@New Yorker: This is Disneyland. You may leave in a bodybag anyway.Note that the cause was not the victim, but a park attendant.
pto892
I’m all for rescuing people who really need rescue-but the problem is that wilderness newbies often lack judgment and can’t distinguish between inconvenience and a real emergency. I’d like to think that I know the difference, but the reality is that SPOT sells their device as giving someone emergency help at the push of a button. That gives people the assurance to try to do something that they would never try otherwise, such as hiking through the Grand Canyon. That’s a stressful hike even for the experienced, but there’s no real easy way to check and see if a group is actually qualified to perform such a hike. I’m surprised that this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often, but I am surprised that the Grand Canyon group wasn’t told emphatically the first time to get their butts out of the canyon because they’re too stupid to backpack. They must have really sweet talked the first and second response teams which surprises me-those people are usually hard core and know their stuff.
soonergrunt
@newsouthzach: The only way you’re going to get DAGR is by joining the Australian or US military. You might be able to get your hands on Polaris Guide, though. It’s DAGR without the COMSEC, anti-jam, and P(Y) code hardware.
My little Garmin E-trex Vista Hcx does a great job.
Is there an accuracy differential between the northern and southern hemispheres? Is the CEP higher in the southern hemisphere, and do you know why this might be the case?
ChrisB
The thing about that article was the incredible sense of entitlement some people had. That one group that called because their water was too salty treated the Forest Service like concierges.
J.W. Hamner
You guys all sound really hardcore. I’ve only ever hiked in the Northeast, so I imagine I don’t really have a concept of what stuff you guys do is like… our mountains are like 1500 feet… max. You’d have to be extraordinarily stupid to get to a place where you needed to be rescued or sleep for the night… though I’m sure it happens.
As far as technology and the outdoors… I GPS all the hikes I go on these days… I like to have a record and then I can synch up all the pictures I take based on time. I think that’s a pretty cool technological development.
Zach
@J.W. Hamner: Go hike the Whites and you’ll get it.
twiffer
i don’t do much beyond dayhiking, and i still make sure i have trail map and compass. even though i find it unfathomable that people do, somehow, get lost in the woods in CT. honestly, pick a direction, walk in a straight line and you’ll hit a road in a hour or so.
GPS is cool and useful (if you know how to use it), but you always need a backup. it’s just sense.
i am by no means an expert, nor would i consider my usual hikes to be anything beyond a moderate difficulty level. the highest point in the state is 2380′. it’s hilly and there is plenty of talus to twist an ankle on, particularly if you are in the basalt ridges; but other than the occassional bear, timber rattler, copperhead or stupid hunter, not much to worry about out there. still, i know that anytime i go hiking i should:
– tell someone where i’m going and give an ETA for return
– bring more water than i think i’ll need (not having enough water is inexcusable, given that nearly any pack you buy these days has a hydration bladder)
– bring something to eat, even if it’s just going to be an hour; jerky, trail mix, granola, even a power bar. have food
– wear good boots, that are broken in. blisters suck. a pair of light hikers is not going to run you more than a pair of sneakers and will be just as comfy. myself, i prefer a more solid boot, but that’s just me. i like plenty of ankle support and i like knowing they’ll last forever. oh, and gore-tex, damn it. wet feet suck
– compass. bring a compass. map too, if you have it, but make sure you have a compass.
– bring a fleece or light sweater. you never know, and that’s why you have a pack.
– bug spray and sun screen.
– wear a hat
– bring your phone
– bring a pocket knife
there is probably stuff on my mental checklist that is missing. but even for the shortest hike, i make sure i’ve got basic preparedness covered.
newsouthzach
@soonergrunt:
Well, seeing as how joining the Aussie military would entail giving up my US citizenship, and joining the US military might well entail a one-way ticket to Kandahar, I’ll stick with my civilian GPS. The Vista Hcx is my handheld of choice, too, FWIW. Not particularly suitable for marine applications, but it gets the job done on land.
CEP is generally higher in the southern hemisphere for the simple reason that the GPS constellation is focused on the northern hemisphere. Most of the time it’s acceptable down here, but the GDOP can get pretty high if there are only a few satellites above the horizon. The Flinders Islet accident I mentioned upthread was directly attributable to a big GDOP leading to large CEP not reflected on the GPS readout, plus the human error of blindly trusting the GPS. See http://www.cyca.com.au/sysfile/downloads/CYCA_Flinders_Islet_Internal_Inquiry_Report.pdf for a bit more.
Honestly, I don’t know why commercial GPS recievers don’t put at least a 1-sigma circle down on their plots. It would be useful, and could help prevent that sort of accident. But, as I said at #4, human stupidity generally reigns supreme.
Ugh, probably bedtime. Happy hour stretched into happy hours, then we won a big bar tab at trivia, and I had been simultaneously posting from my iphone and betting the ponies. I’m going to pay for this tomorrow for sure.
Alwhite
Firesign Theater had a bit with a line that always tickled my fancy as it highlighted a certain sort of American exceptionalism “In America, where you can pee in the stream.”
These guys just wanted to take it to then next level.
newsouthzach
@J.W. Hamner:
You can get yourself in plenty of trouble up in the Pressies. Take it from me — I’ve done SAR up there. Mind you, I was basically a pack mule for the real first responders, but I’ve seen quite a bit of it. I think a lot of it is to do with the fact that New Englanders rarely see anything above treeline, and so don’t respect the fact that going above treeline can be a BFD.
@twiffer:
You’d be surprised how hard it can be to walk in a straight line without a compass. You’d also be surprised how hard people find it to do things like follow water, or even just walk down a ridge line. In New England, it’s pretty hard to follow a stream terribly long without running into a road or some sort of habitation.
catclub
@debbie:
“The Parks Service ought to create a brochure of commonsense tips that’s handed out at the park entrances. And then ban any violators from the park.”
Of course, if they could enforce it the parks would be empty.
I would be willing to bet thay have already done the first part –
multiple times. If the fourth paragraph awards a dollar to anyone who gets that far, they would spend about $100 a year.
catclub
@Walker:
” ‘The SPOT people offer rescue insurance as part of their package of services.’
How does that work without bankrupting the company? ”
The people who think ahead enough to buy a SPOT system are those who will be less likely to need rescue.
I think SPOT ain’t cheap.
catclub
@Alwhite:
Firesign Theater had a bit with a line that always tickled my fancy as it highlighted a certain sort of American exceptionalism “In America, where you can pee in the stream.”
Wasn’t that an ad for Bear Whiz Beer?
I always thought they were poking fun at Coors – taste the Rockies- made in Golden, Colorado.
R-Jud
@Omnes Omnibus:
This is a constant struggle between me and my brother-in-law. We have a good road atlas and use the Web to check for construction or traffic issues before we go. We’ve yet to get hopelessly lost, even on back roads in the rain or snow.
He relies on his sat nav, and has nearly driven into a river, wound up on entirely the wrong side of London, and headed south for half an hour when he knew he should’ve been going north, just because the sat nav insisted.
newsouthzach
@catclub:
SPOT is apparently some sort of alternative to the 406 MHz beacons that go on the COSPAS-SARSAT system (which is free, BTW); they make their money by selling $100/year subscriptions to a service that few will use. I suspect it would be a simple matter for them to turn around and reinsure the SAR liability. If you really want to tweet your location constantly, buy a SPOT, pay the subscription, and stay in the damn city. Serious outdoorsmen will pay the couple hundred extra dollars upfront to get a 406 MHz system with no subscription fees.
Omnes Omnibus
@R-Jud: Our Garmin, which usually works very well, once tried to send us from a hotel in Beverly, MA to the waterfront in Salem, MA (a distance of 5-6 miles at most) by way of Seattle. A quick reboot fixed it, but map awareness meant that I noticed that directions putting us on I-95 were suspect.
pto892
@catclub:
SPOT isn’t cheap until you need it.
Seriously, the SPOT receivers can be had for $100 or so with rebates and sales. My wife got mine for basically free at Best Buy because it was the low end model. It’s the services that cost-SPOT includes messaging and 9/11 services as part of the receiver cost for one year. After that you pay. Extra services also cost, such as GPS tracking and rescue insurance. The rescue insurance is meant to cover extraction costs for backcountry rescues that aren’t covered normally, many local governments in the US West are cash strapped and charge for rescue services. I doubt the rescue insurance will cover idiot usage, such as salty water replacement services.
pto892
The SPOT also offers convenience, it’s small and light and runs for a year on a pair of lithium AA batteries. I have no idea how big one of the 406 mhz systems referred to by newsouthzach is, but the SPOT is light enough to ride in the map pocket of my Osprey to not bother me. I try to keep my pack weight below 35 pounds, and anything large and heavy isn’t going with me unless it offers some real value.
ricky
Why doesn’t the ban on pets on trails in National Parks apply
to people with equal IQ’s?
scav
@Omnes Omnibus:
And in that short description, let us count the possible sources of possible error (at a minimum):
1) GPS locational error (linked to all the basic satellite availability and processing to translate the signals into a location;
2) the actual digital map that makes the basic coordinate location provided by the satellites into something more potentially useful — which is a real bucket of worm because the quality of these is highly variable — you may not want to know how many of you have been driving along routes based on hastily copied paper maps that came out of govt. offices for planned (of variable vintages), rather than actual developments — oh, and you may not want to think too hard about how splicing all these individually sourced and purposed maps together into a so-called seamless national map is attempted in this environment of doing everything faster and cheaper;
3) the routing software that assembles the actual route suggested — which, because of the processing time, desired response time and machine size is very probably using heuristic solution methods, not that you can guarantee an optimal solution anyway;
4) the wetware that assumes you can turn off what Omnes Omnibus called map awareness because of the existence of digital chips.
Although to be fair, the idiots described have always been with us, I grew up in an area where my dad (on the volunteer S&R) would haul out the bodies of people that thought they could climb scree slopes in high heels, or would use the signs warning of avalanche areas as quicky sleds. Such idiots are now just turbocharged, bionic idiots with the ability to broadcast their idiocy earlier over a wider area.
Oh, and I didn’t even properly get into the problem that the digital map needs are so much more complex and time sensitive than the paper ones, so building them at all is more compicated but I figured I’d ranted well over and above what any sane person would take. I’m just in digital cartographer withdrawal, sorry.
PhoenixRising
NPS doesn’t enforce the ban on dogs off leash, so banning dumb visitors is probably beyond their mandate.
Seriously, in one week in July: Family of three (mom, dad 10 year old boy) hiking at 8000 feet with no water, no map, no compass, street shoes, no bear spray. Then they let the boy swim 100 feet below a huge waterfall. Not wade, swim…under the curtain.
Family of 4, dad washes himself in this lake with a bar of Ivory soap and a bottle of Head and Shoulders, 200 yards from a dump station with proper septic and fresh water on tap. Tells me that’s how they did it in Boy Scouts in 1974.
Minivan from IL herded the herd of bison off the road, resulting in the van being charged and gored.
And that was just one week. I met my friend’s family, 3 kids under 15, at the Grand Canyon in March and just about lost it. Said to the 11 year old, “This is not a ride. I didn’t change your diapers to have you disappear in a flume of dust 400 feet below the rim.”
The kids don’t know any better, and I’m convinced that the adults are brain injured from the overuse of gadgets.
JCT
@PhoenixRising: I just read the thread and was composing my comment in my head when I got to yours and lo and behold, I was about to write the same thing, basically.
We hit one National Park a year and never, in my life, have I seen such idiotic behavior. I actually have a small compilation of pictures that I have taken of tourists doing unbelievably stupid things and keep threatening to make a web site with them.
Lets see:
— long ago we decided that Yellowstone must have a max IQ for entry as we have seen numerous numbskulls walking right up to an enormous bison, running after a big male moose and my all time favorite, running alongside a road trying to get a better look at a large grizzly bear running in the brush.
— lots of idiots getting way too close to thermal pools
— last summer at the Great Smokey Mountains took a great shot from the safety of my truck with a *long* telephoto of some aspiring Darwin award winner running up to take a picture of a nice mama bear with his P&S. With 2 little baby bears trailing behind her. Brilliant.
I must say, however, similar to PhoenixRising’s waterfall observation, NOTHING makes people forget all common sense like water. Especially waterfalls. Was at Yosemite last month and besides all the idgits on hiking trails with slick rock wearing flip-flops (facepalm), people seemed entirely oblivious to the relative ease with which you can fall off these cliffs and die. At the top of each serious waterfall there were these signs in all different languages reminding people that if you swim in the pools above waterfalls you have a good chance of going over the edge and dying. So of course we saw tons of people doing just that. Made me queasy just to watch. My favorite was the couple standing on the very edge of Nevada Falls (oh, just a sheer 300-400 ft drop) and leaning over to take a picture. He was about 6-2 and she was 5-3 at best. But not to worry, as he leaned over she held on to his belt……. that one freaked me out so much I didn’t even bother to take a pic of them for my collection.
Sigh.
BrYan
@BrYan:
I think I know what it is now, apparently Colorado is letting people mail in their ballot. I think the worry is the Swarthen Hordes will now be able to express political opinion.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/11/colorado-voters-mail-it-in/
evinfuilt
@pto892:
Iodine tablets never run out of batteries, and don’t clog up. I’ve never gone hiking without a small jar of those and magnesium bar and knife (my full kit has a few more important items as well, all put in their own pouch that moves from the day pack to week long pack.)
The most important things you can take with you on a hike are so small, so cheap, and so rarely seen :( Its like common sense, its a rare site.
Last months issue of Backpacker has an article from someone who’s worked as a Park Ranger all her life. Wish I could link to it, but their website is so lacking in magazine info. But its a great read to see the horrors they all go through.
evinfuilt
@catclub:
Bear Whizz Beer, sounds like the drinking water in Golden. God that stuff is horrible, run-offs from all those abandoned mining facilities upstream. I miss the city, but I don’t miss the water.
Then again, at least they’re nice enough to put out warnings for when the drinking water isn’t safe.
pto892
@evinfuilt: My day pack contains the following at all times:
compass
water purification tablets
6 feet of duct tape wrapped around a cardboard scrap
large outdoor 3 mil trash bag
appx 20 feet of 1/8 inch nylon cord
small first aid kit (which has iodine, benadryl, motrin, bandages, etc)
fire starting kit
led clip light
whistle
That’s besides whatever clothing and raingear that I pack for the day. I also always carry a small multitool and a pocketknife on my person. The one thing I have noticed over the years is that casual hikers never carry enough water, and they are not prepared for sudden changes in the weather. A day hike can kill you just as quickly as a back country expedition.
Backpacker is a great magazine, I have read the article you’re referring to and thought it was quite informative. The NYT article that sparked this comment thread is on Slashdot and Fark too, lots of good comments in both places.
twiffer
@newsouthzach: precisely. CT was basically clear-cut for farming, then reforested after people realized you could grow crops in the midwest without first reaping a crop of stones. it’s now 70ish% forest. still, i think nearly every trickle was dammed at one point for a mill. walk downhill, follow water, reach civilization.
twiffer
@scav: garmin maps likes to try and route people over a bridge that has not existed for at least 2 decades, when directing them to my parent’s house.
Alex
In Britain, the traditional version of this is the guy (it’s always a guy) who builds a boat in his garage, to some design he pulled out of his arse, and takes to the North Atlantic. Some of them get surprisingly far offshore (the UK SAR zone covers most of the north-eastern Atlantic) and the inevitable search-and-rescue involves a Nimrod reconnaissance plane (like a P-3). More often, they result in repeated callouts a few hundred yards out of harbour. It’s the end of August, there’ll be one in the paper soon enough.
No charge is made; I’m ambivalent about this. I don’t like the idea of billing the shipwrecked, but people will do incredibly stupid things and those Nimrod hours mount up fast. Similarly, British mountains have a reputation for killing experts – not as high as some places, but short days and wicked weather. Having grown up in the dales, I find it pretty hard to be sympathetic to the fucking fool who has a crack at Ben Nevis or Scafell or wherever in December in a T-shirt (it’s happened – the Fort William mountain rescuers publish an annual log, which is full of black humour.
“NOVEMBER 12: Hillwalker became cragfast on Ben Whatsisname, thought he was 10 miles away on Meainn Theother, wearing “I Ran The World” sweater. MRT called for, RAF Sea King heli called for but returned to base after air miss, Navy Merlin called out, Police and Fire called out, Nimrod called out, National Rescue Coordination on alert 17 hours. Despite extensive search on foot in 2′ of snow, 50 mph blizzard, dog walker found body at dawn.”
However, the NYT article does make very clear that living in a country where they just send you the damn bill for the medics and the heli hours etc etc doesn’t actually stop the fuckers from doing it. Which is a problem for libertarians.
JGabriel
Alex:
It’s also a problem for making a charge over it (whether civil, criminal, or financial). It provides no deterrent.
It’s just one of those things that falls under the category of helping those desperately in need. That the emergency is of their own making doesn’t really change the calculation.
.
scav
@twiffer: exactly. For a while a bunch of systems were routing people over a cliff near my mother’s (cliff face had eroded under the road, maybe in the 50s(?)) and you could see the the little road symbol hanging out over the ocean when you looked at the hybrid sat-map view. And then, the road arc she lived on had been flipped so they put her house symbol in the pasture across the street. My cousin in law argued all the way down the final street that the GPS system simply had to be correct and mom’s directions had to be wrong despite the visible evidence of cows.
scav
@twiffer: Oh, and if you’re still having that problem, looks like it would be in Navteq data and you can report issues directly to them. Navteq Map Reporter. I’m pretty sure they’ve improved their error handling processes recently.
J.W. Hamner
I don’t know if anybody is still looking at this thread, but just read a Slate article where Jack Schafer demolishes the idea that there is any evidence of a trend in more search and rescues due to technology.
What I found interesting was that there looks like there is actually a downward trend in search and rescues in the last 10+ years that’s sort of leveled off in the last few.