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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Sunday Morning Open Thread

Sunday Morning Open Thread

by John Cole|  September 5, 201010:06 am| 85 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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It’s Sunday, so you know what that means: CBS Sunday Morning and the obligatory Frank Rich link (this week he rips into Obama over the war).

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Previous Post: « Early Morning Open Thread: Poe’s Law
Next Post: Atheists and Agnostics in Foxholes »

Reader Interactions

85Comments

  1. 1.

    quaint irene

    September 5, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Has McCain finally taken the day off? Ya know, for Labor Day and all.
    Cause bloviating on any talk show he can IS his job.

  2. 2.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:13 am

    @quaint irene: No, he was on Fox News with Chris Wallace this morning, according to my broadcast TV guide.

  3. 3.

    RedKitten

    September 5, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Fucking mice. First I had one in my car, and now this morning we wake up to find droppings in the house (due to an improperly latched window screen.)

    It’s still warm out, why can the little fuckers not stay outside?

  4. 4.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Well, for me, Sunday morning means a bright sunny day, damn fine coffee and an omelette that makes me feel 39 again.

  5. 5.

    Punchy

    September 5, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Ah…the Sunday that feels like another Saturday.

    NFL! NFL! NF….wait a minute….uh, nevermind. Dammit.

  6. 6.

    jwb

    September 5, 2010 at 10:20 am

    I thought Rich’s article was excellent, but I do wish that he’d focus attention on the goopers and their media enablers until the election.

  7. 7.

    DougJ

    September 5, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Watching Amanpour. They should have had the guy who played Blair in “The Queen” do the interview though, I like him better than the real Tony Blair.

  8. 8.

    Alwhite

    September 5, 2010 at 10:21 am

    I was a little disappointed with the story on “reality” TV. The information I really was hoping they would provide was why the shows stopped filing during the writers strike. Seems to me if you are filming real life you don’t have writers.

  9. 9.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:22 am

    David Gregory is telling me that the reason Democrats are in such trouble, especially with independents, is that they failed to work in a bipartisan fashion.

  10. 10.

    Alwhite

    September 5, 2010 at 10:22 am

    @DougJ:

    Yeah, but then again I like pyorrhea better than Tony Blair.

  11. 11.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:24 am

    @El Cid:

    Does he do this while sucking on the hookah, or afterwards?

  12. 12.

    DougJ

    September 5, 2010 at 10:25 am

    @Alwhite:

    At some point I would like to do a “what’s the deal with Tony Blair” thread so I can read what our UK commenters have to say about him. I don’t understand him, somehow. He’s so good at talking, but his decisions are mostly idiotic.

  13. 13.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:26 am

    @morzer: David Gregory needs no chemical assistance to be flatly idiotic.

  14. 14.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 10:27 am

    @Alwhite: Sarcasm, right? Reality shows, reflecting the reality of carefully edited 30- or 60- minute (less commercials) planned story arc segments, are a form of fiction.

  15. 15.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 10:28 am

    @El Cid: But doesn’t he have great hair?

  16. 16.

    Cat Lady

    September 5, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Finished watching Season 1 and Season 2 of The Wire last night that I got for my birthday. Wow. I know everyone but me has seen it pretty much, but I just couldn’t have imagined how good it is. I’m running out soon to get the other seasons, but one at a time. So many good lines, but so far this exchange was my favorite:

    Cop to Bodie: You’re stupid.
    Bodie: I ain’t stupid.
    Cop: Nobody thinks they’re stupid. That’s part of the stupid.

    Words for our age, and especially for David Gregory, apparently.

  17. 17.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:29 am

    @El Cid:

    Well, I thought he might try the buffooning under the influence defense (BUTI) AKA as ignorant while on crack (IWOC).

  18. 18.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 10:30 am

    @El Cid: The reason a wrecked car is in trouble is because it failed to work in a bipartisan fashion with a brick wall.

  19. 19.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Oops, I should mention that Gregory is interviewing David Plouffe.

    Coming up is Kendrick Meek and, presumably not at the same time, Marco Rubio.

  20. 20.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:33 am

    @Chad N Freude: Many liberal extremist Democrats advised avoiding the wall altogether, but a gathering number of conservative Democrats advocate still hitting the wall, but maybe not straight on.

  21. 21.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:33 am

    @El Cid:

    “Mr Meek, are you behind in the polls because you refused to campaign with Marco Rubio in a bipartisan fashion?”

  22. 22.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 5, 2010 at 10:34 am

    @RedKitten: Apparently you and SamKitten and MisterDaddyKitten aren’t the great mousers that your handles would imply. MOUSEFAIL.

  23. 23.

    numbskull

    September 5, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Via Atrios, best of the web this morning:

    The thing about Britain is that their debate is closer to the real meat and potatoes of what this argument is all about.  Ours is frustratingly diverted into “Like or Dislike Obama” or “Is the Tea Party Racist” and other tangential questions./blockquote>

    Britain makes it clear: it’s really about social democracy vs. neoliberalism.

    It is important that [Open Left] understand this.  This is the debate that is barely allowed to be mentioned on our side of the pond but it’s the crucial distinction.

    When Paul Krugman argues for Keynesianism he’s taking the social democratic side of this argument.  But he’s not allowed to say so, or at least not willing.

    The mistake of our side in the past period was in not understanding how strongly our opponents believed in the other side of this argument. It was indeed their central rationale.  It wasn’t “just politics”.

    continued at

    http://www.openleft.com/diary/20040/great-comment-on-neoliberalism

  24. 24.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 10:35 am

    @El Cid: Using a nuclear option could reduce the wall to a speed bump.

  25. 25.

    numbskull

    September 5, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Best of the morning’s web, via Atrios:

    The thing about Britain is that their debate is closer to the real meat and potatoes of what this argument is all about.  Ours is frustratingly diverted into “Like or Dislike Obama” or “Is the Tea Party Racist” and other tangential questions. Britain makes it clear: it’s really about social democracy vs. neoliberalism. It is important that [Open Left] understand this.  This is the debate that is barely allowed to be mentioned on our side of the pond but it’s the crucial distinction. When Paul Krugman argues for Keynesianism he’s taking the social democratic side of this argument.  But he’s not allowed to say so, or at least not willing. The mistake of our side in the past period was in not understanding how strongly our opponents believed in the other side of this argument. It was indeed their central rationale.  It wasn’t “just politics”…

    Continued at:

    http://www.openleft.com/diary/20040/great-comment-on-neoliberalism

  26. 26.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Economist David Zandi is explaining on Face the Nation that the Bush Jr. tax cuts should be renewed for the wealthiest because “high income households are psychologically very very fragile.”

    Wow. I’d say “you really, really have to be shitting me.”

  27. 27.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:40 am

    @El Cid:

    Well, there is Paris Hilton to support his case. Has he cited her yet?

  28. 28.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:40 am

    @morzer: “There are a lot of independent voters who want to see the Democrats taking on more Republican ideas.” [Strangely enough, not a real quote.]

  29. 29.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:41 am

    @morzer: He doesn’t need to. He himself is doubtlessly rich.

  30. 30.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:42 am

    @El Cid:

    Cluelessly rich, more like.

  31. 31.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 5, 2010 at 10:42 am

    @El Cid: I thought the wealthiest were the wealthiest because of their almost superhuman abilities and work ethic. This does not square with a description of the wealthiest as “psychologically very very fragile.”

  32. 32.

    Suffern ACE

    September 5, 2010 at 10:43 am

    @El Cid: Then I think we should raise those taxes as a character building exercise.

  33. 33.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:44 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: We know that though they are superhumans who create matter and energy out of nothing, they are psychologically very fragile, because whenever people say something negative about the super-ultra-rich they exclaim that they feel so oppressed that they may not be willing to continue making themselves even super-ultra-richer.

  34. 34.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:45 am

    @Suffern ACE: For your extremist, partisan aim for experimentation, you threaten destroying all our golden eggs and omelets.

  35. 35.

    morzer

    September 5, 2010 at 10:47 am

    @El Cid:

    You, sir, shall get my psychologically fragile omelette when you pry it from my cold dead stomach!

    Yum fucking yum!

    Damn fine coffee.

  36. 36.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 5, 2010 at 10:48 am

    @El Cid: Well, as it so happens, I am willing to accept that risk.

  37. 37.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:49 am

    @morzer: Yes, but in order to get that omelet, you had to break a few eggs.

  38. 38.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 10:51 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: That is why you are an extreme Communist partisan (and not the temporarily good WWII type who we had to help destroy and jail as the war was ending & afterward) and you would destroy America by making the super-ultra-rich feel bad. How dare you, sir! The Founding Fathers didn’t want people like you to do that to the infinitely rich, otherwise it would have been in the Constushun.

  39. 39.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 5, 2010 at 10:52 am

    @El Cid: Oooooh, salmonella risk; be careful.

  40. 40.

    Corner Stone

    September 5, 2010 at 10:57 am

    @El Cid:

    Many liberal extremist Democrats advised avoiding the wall altogether, but a gathering number of conservative Democrats advocate still hitting the wall, but maybe not straight on.

    I remember being told that even though the car was headed for the wall, nothing could be done to change course.
    Ostensibly everyone was in the back seat.

  41. 41.

    arguingwithsignposts

    September 5, 2010 at 10:57 am

    @Chad N Freude:
    Obama could just bust through the wall with his Bully Pulpit ™ – ramming it down the wall’s throat.

  42. 42.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 5, 2010 at 11:00 am

    @El Cid: Can’t wait to see the Bobblehead Translation of the FTN interview.

  43. 43.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:01 am

    @El Cid: What is that, satire? We who live in Greater Los Angeles have been having the McCourt divorce war shoved in our faces by the LA Times and less respectable media for weeks now. The psychological fragility of this couple fighting over ownership of the Dodgers and $1,000,000/month lifestyle maintenance for seven mansions is terrible to behold, and we would fear for their sanity if they had any to begin with. (The link offers a good 30-second summary. Fun fact: Her lawyer is David Boies. Yes, THAT David Boies.)

  44. 44.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 11:03 am

    @Chad N Freude: Yes it was snark. There is no serious way one needs to discuss a nation’s economic policies on the basis of the delicate theoretical feelings of the most rich.

  45. 45.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:03 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Think of brilliant mad scientists.

  46. 46.

    bemused

    September 5, 2010 at 11:03 am

    @Chad N Freude:
    And he can dance!

  47. 47.

    Suffern ACE

    September 5, 2010 at 11:04 am

    @El Cid: This extreme communist notes that it appears to be the well-heeled owners of the Post and the WSJ who are most bent out of shape by our deficit, so much so that they can’t stop talking about it. I am assuming that they will rest much easier knowing that their taxes are going to help eliminate that deficit. Since it will be a wash, the well heeled can go back to their other obsession, which is bitching about how the poor are living on easy street.

  48. 48.

    Mnemosyne

    September 5, 2010 at 11:04 am

    @Alwhite:

    I was a little disappointed with the story on “reality” TV. The information I really was hoping they would provide was why the shows stopped filing during the writers strike. Seems to me if you are filming real life you don’t have writers.

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    No, but seriously, I knew some writers for reality shows. They’re all scripted. Every single one. I’m still shocked that the producers of “Real Housewives of DC” didn’t get charged with anything. You think the Salehis came up with the idea of crashing that reception at the White House by themselves? But plausible deniability came to the rescue once again.

  49. 49.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 5, 2010 at 11:04 am

    @Chad N Freude: Dr. Emilio Lizardo?

  50. 50.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:05 am

    @El Cid: I meant Zandi, not you. Sorry for lack of clarity.

  51. 51.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    September 5, 2010 at 11:06 am

    My favourite chaplain moment in the Army was when I came out as trans, and after spending the weekend in the hospital for suicidal ideation having the obligatory talk with the BN chaplain, he tried to impress on the need for me to follow Jesus, put my faith in Dog, blah blah blah. I actually rolled my eyes at him-I suspect he knew he wasn’t going to get his message across, but had to do it anyways. Plus I got to tell him to politely bugger off when he straight out asked me if I was gay.

  52. 52.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    September 5, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Eek, wrong thread!!

  53. 53.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:07 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes, and Lex Luthor, and Dr. Frankenstein.

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne

    September 5, 2010 at 11:09 am

    @numbskull:

    Well, to be fair, you’ve got the word “social” in “social democracy,” which means you’re really secretly talking about sociaIism, which means the right-wing hordes have to veer off into screeching about how Communists Islamofascists Are Coming To Kill Us All! and can avoid the entire discussion.

    It would be nice to live in a country where the political class was actually capable of discussing the problems we face without latching onto buzzwords to derail the entire conversation, but I don’t think I have sufficient marketable skills to emigrate.

    (I’m trying Yutsano’s trick for typing The Forbidden Word — let’s see if it works.)

  55. 55.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Tony Blair on Amanpour: All the utter bullshit propaganda used to launch the Iraq war was justified because I was a decision maker.

  56. 56.

    4jkb4ia

    September 5, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Did you read Taylor Branch today!? Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

    Key paragraph:

    When it came to politics at the rally, Mr. Beck always stopped short, perhaps because his new framework points directly away from anti-government orthodoxy. Washington and the founders established freedom by upholding experimental government against those who would tear it down. Lincoln saved the Union from deconstructionist zealots. Dr. King’s dream speech, from patriotic and spiritual ground, appealed unreservedly for the nation to “rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed” by passing a civil rights bill to end segregation.

    Kristof was also very good.

  57. 57.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 11:12 am

    @Suffern ACE:

    Since it will be a wash, the well heeled can go back to their other obsession, which is bitching about how the poor are living on easy street.

    The important thing is that assistance to the poor and middle class, in fact the very weakness of policies to punish them for even surviving, is harmful to the incredibly delicate, glass flower-like sensitivity of the super-ultra-rich’s feelings.

  58. 58.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Tony Blair: George Bush Jr. was dumb but decisive. Though I liked Bill Clinton better because he talked gooder.

  59. 59.

    4jkb4ia

    September 5, 2010 at 11:13 am

    @numbskull:

    Absolutely.

  60. 60.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:15 am

    I think we should start a charitable organization to raise funds for maintenance of the fragile psychological health of high income households. They are clearly a repressed minority in need of both government and charitable assistance.

  61. 61.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 5, 2010 at 11:15 am

    @El Cid: One of Bart Simpson’s blackboard writings was “I will not torment the emotionally frail.”

  62. 62.

    Corner Stone

    September 5, 2010 at 11:16 am

    @numbskull: I read that this morning as well.
    Did you draw any conclusions from that piece?

  63. 63.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:17 am

    @Mnemosyne: I missed this. What’s the trick?

  64. 64.

    El Cid

    September 5, 2010 at 11:19 am

    @Chad N Freude: Look, just because you absolutely and without challenge dominate corporations, their investors, think tanks, political institutions, lobbyists, politicians, broadcast and printed media, and cultural institutions is no reason to think that you aren’t oppressed.

    Occasionally laws are passed and rhetoric is spoken which mildly rebuke you, often with few consequences, and this is just like suffering as a Jew in Nazi Germany. And frankly they can’t take more such torture any more than children can survive without food. I mean rich kids, of course. We need to cut school lunch programs so as to teach discipline.

  65. 65.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:21 am

    @Mnemosyne: Any chance of getting the drooling right to start inveighing against social networking websites?

  66. 66.

    demo woman

    September 5, 2010 at 11:22 am

    @DougJ:

    Watching Amanpour. They should have had the guy who played Blair in “The Queen” do the interview though, I like him better than the real Tony Blair.

    Pierce Brosnan did a fair impersonation of the British PM.

  67. 67.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:25 am

    @demo woman: Better than fair. That was an excellent movie, but some commenters here refused to see it because it was directed by Polanski.

  68. 68.

    Larry Signor

    September 5, 2010 at 11:29 am

    In a recently released Galling Poll, 19 super-rich Americans were surveyed concerning their psychological-financial attitudes. All expressed optimism about their financial futures, citing the rising unemployment rate among poor Americans as proof that the massive wealth transfer now under way will continue. This fact has contributed to recent market euphoria where thousands of 401k investments that had been looted in the recent dip were restored to record values for the new owners.

  69. 69.

    Maude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:37 am

    The actor who played Blair was wearing more lipstick than Helen Miren.

  70. 70.

    numbskull

    September 5, 2010 at 11:39 am

    @Corner Stone: I have to say I posted it because it has been my assessment since before the ’08 elections, actually, since ’06. But, whaddyagonnado? I phone banked, canvassed, held in-home get-togethers, etc. to elect Democrats and Obama, mainly as a “least of several bad choices.”

    I don’t agree with the many (some here) who say that we got the most that was possible for each of the legislative “victories” of the past two years. The final bills were always going to be just a smidge to the right of whatever was going to be originally proposed. Starting from center-right just means that we ended up with rightwing retreads.

    Cole, god bless ‘im, and many others here find some solace in the assumption that Obama and the Dem leadership always started with as much as they thought was possible to get. That’s not entirely how DC works; it’s valid only to a degree.

    In the end, for what it’s worth, I agree with Atrios/Open Left/etc. that what was proposed was proposed precisely because the end result was what we actually got.

  71. 71.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Well, at least the high income households don’t have to worry about this:

    For many unemployed workers, jobs aren’t coming back

  72. 72.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 5, 2010 at 11:49 am

    The English language just cracks me up sometimes.

    I was over at Media Matters for America, and I swear it took me about 5 minutes to make sense of this headline:

    *Fox News bullies organized labor in run-up to Labor Day*

    I was reading the subject (Fox News) as a modifier, a present-tense verb (bullies) as a noun, and an adjective (organized) as a past-tense verb. So what I was getting was “The bullies from Fox News sorted, arranged, and neatly shelved hard work.” It was incredibly disorienting, trying to make sense of it, like being in the middle of an Escher staircase. A verbical illusion.

    I guess I’d better get me some coffee NAOW.

  73. 73.

    Corner Stone

    September 5, 2010 at 11:51 am

    @Chad N Freude: Structural unemployment.

  74. 74.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 11:53 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Ambiguity is our Mother Tongue.

  75. 75.

    arguingwithsignposts

    September 5, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    @Chad N Freude:
    FSM, that is so depressing. Couple that with this (via GOS) yesterday: Nevada going bust, and I need another cup of coffee. Or something stronger.

    Looks like the glibertarians are going to get their paradise after all.

  76. 76.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts: USA, Leader of the Free Third World.

    ETA: The strikeout font is way too weak. FYWP.

  77. 77.

    Admiral_Komack

    September 5, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    @jwb:

    I didn’t.
    What I took from it was “gee, Obama isn’t emoting again”.
    And since the New York Times did all they could to get this country into that quagmire, Frank Rich needs to drink a hot, steaming cup of “Shut The Fuck Up!”
    (After 2 comments, the NYT shut down the comments section of Rich’s column, the weaselly fucks).

  78. 78.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    @Admiral_Komack: Don’t blame Rich for the NYT’s editorial misjudgment.

  79. 79.

    Turbulence

    September 5, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    DougJ, John Cole, and others: help me out here. Why do you watch the sunday shows on TV?

    I mean, you’re all very well informed about politics and policy. Certainly better than the moderators or the vast majority of guests you see on the sunday shows. Most of what you see just enrages you because the stupid, the stupid, it BURNS. So what are you really getting out of it? It seems like such a waste: you’re smart folks but you intentionally expose yourself to beltway stupid every sunday. Wouldn’t it be more pleasant to just attend a liberal church? Then at least you’d get some good recipes….

    I’ve seen you do these threads for years and I’ve always been meaning to ask.

  80. 80.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    @Turbulence: Not only is Balloon Juice the Most Depressing Blog on the Internet(tm), it is also the Most Masochistic Blog on the Internet(tm).

  81. 81.

    master c

    September 5, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Sunday shows are like a cute relic now. Never watch, like to read about them if it takes less than 45 seconds.

  82. 82.

    Origuy

    September 5, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    @Chad N Freude:

    I missed this. What’s the trick?

    Using a capital i instead of a lower case L in the word sociaIist. In the font that the Balloon Juice stylesheet is using for comment text, they are almost identical. The capital i is a few pixels shorter. (IlIlIl)

  83. 83.

    Chad N Freude

    September 5, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    @Origuy: Thanks. I would be embarrassed to tell you the first thing that occurred to me when I read “a few pixels shorter”. But I’m going to start using “a few pixels shy of an l” when I read about someone saying something stupid.

  84. 84.

    asiangrrlMN

    September 5, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    @Chad N Freude: So that’s why I like it so much!

  85. 85.

    Jane2

    September 5, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    @DougJ: Here’s your explanation from one of the Empire’s outposts.

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