Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

This blog will pay for itself.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

This fight is for everything.

So many bastards, so little time.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

You are here: Home / Economics / Free Markets Solve Everything / Lay right down in my favorite place

Lay right down in my favorite place

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I’m visiting family, watching “The Closer” against my will, but I liked this Obama clip:

And it made me think of this:

I don’t know, it feels awful to talk about Labor Day today, everything in our national discussion is about how to fuck over working people, how to give more money to the Galtian geniuses who engineered this awesome economic expansion.

Reader Interactions

166Comments

  5. 5.

    Larry Signor

    everything in our national discussion is about how to fuck over working people, how to give more money to the Galtian geniuses who engineered this awesome economic expansion

    Chestertonian in your eloquence, Doug. Have you been skoolin’ Erik?

  6. 6.

    Corner Stone

    I don’t know. Not all hope is lost. Chad N Freude feels we can make hopeful dialogue with those who want to destroy us.
    So I guess it’s all good.

  7. 7.

    Larkspur

    Is it okay that I still like Obama? Because I do. I don’t worship anything or anyone. I just like the guy.

  8. 8.

    John W.

    Take a drink every time you see a violation of a suspect’s constitutional rights on the Closer, you’ll be passed out in no time.

    I’ll spare the longer rant on this subject for another time.

  11. 11.

    Veritas78

    Wrap your heads around Petraeus warning our fundies not to burn the Koran — it really is time to go.

    Thank you, George W. Bush (and Dick & Tony), for the Iraq War. You finally ended our ability to fuck with whoever we want.

    Yep, time to go. Let’s all go get our cape refitted. And try not to nuke Iran on the way out, okay?

  12. 12.

    Villago Delenda Est

    I’m not buying it.

    If Obama fires Emmanuel, Geithner, Summers, and Bernake, and then nationalizes Goldman-Sachs and confiscates every dime from their executives, then I’ll believe.

    Not a nanosecond before.

  14. 14.

    Cris

    Just don’t think of it as Labor Day, and it works just fine. This is Labor Day (United States), explicitly designed to separate the American worker from the concept of international solidarity.

  19. 19.

    Mark S.

    What I learned from watching Tyson:

    Iron Mike had gonorrhea when he won his first title against Trevor Berbick.

    Just thought I’d share.

  20. 20.

    Comrade Mary

    Thanks for the video of a young and beautiful Jim O., Doug. And that’s also a nice view of a young and beautiful James W. behind him, who just recently gave up his day job to work with Iggy again.

  22. 22.

    Steeplejack

    @John W.:

    Let me know when you want to blow, because I’ve got your back. Almost all the cop shows have become little meta-odes to the police state and its minions. Criminal Minds is the worst to me. Your mileage may vary.

  23. 23.

    goblue72

    Here’s what you need to know about Obama – if we were in the middle of the Pres. McCain administration (heck, if we were in the middle of the Pres. H.R. Clinton administration), there’d be one American auto company (Ford) left – maybe. GM would have been busted into pieces and sold to the Japanese. Chrysler would have been ever worse off than it is. And UAW would have been no more.

    On this Labor Day, recall back when saving the American auto industry using TARP funds was being debated – recall how all those GOP senators from the South were more than willing to toss the American auto industry onto the pyre, in the feeble, whoring hope that the Japanese would open a few more auto plants in their backyards. (NON-union auto plants, I might add).

    Remember all that – remember all those working class workers in Michigan and elsewhere who still have jobs because of what this man did. Remember that we actually still HAVE an American auto industry in this country because of what he pulled off. (all those good paying, manufacturing jobs we all like to complain about not having anymore of – well, he saved a WHOLE bunch of ’em). Remember that when you want to complain and moan because Obama didn’t gift wrap a magical wish-granting pony to you for Christmas.

    We are at war with a political enemy composed of racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic, corporate-whore monger TRAITORS who would gladly grind the American worker into dust for 30 pieces of silver. And who just so happen to control a large swath of the mass media.

    Think about that when you feel like sitting out the election in a hissy fit.

  25. 25.

    angler

    Not sure where the dog reference originated. Harold Ford used it an ad in his failed 2006 campaign.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyKcIbdSZgc&feature=related

    It didn’t carry the day because calling the other team meanies isn’t a criticism to them, it’s a compliment. Saying FinReg was the baseball bat to their gonads won’t cut it because it wasn’t.

    Go right after them, straight at them–what Bush did, what the 2009 GOP’s obstruction cost, and what price they will extract from working people if they win more in 2010. Maybe throw in, we tried to play it their way and now we play it your way.

    Nothing to lose but the Congress. Two months is a long time.

  28. 28.

    DFS

    @Mark S.: It’s not as effective unless you use Iron Mike’s own words: he was “burning like a Good Humor in July.”

    That’s one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen.

  29. 29.

    Frank

    @Larkspur:

    Is it okay that I still like Obama? Because I do. I don’t worship anything or anyone. I just like the guy.

    Same here. I will do whatever I can do to re-elect him in 2012. Obama has done whatever I expected him to do and then some. It is the idiots in congress I have a problem with.

  30. 30.

    mr. whipple

    @morzer:

    If anyone would like to actually see what Obama had to say in the whole speech,

    It’s also rerunning on cspan at 11:30.

  31. 31.

    John W.

    @freelancer (itouch):

    Apparently, that belief – true or not – justifies any type of unconstitutional scheme any writer can think of.

    @Steeplejack:

    Amen. Law and Order was the best – the original not the spin offs – but that was just often in pursuit of drama in the second half hour. At this point, I can only watch procedural shows that are explicitly outside of the law (shows like Leverage and Burn Notice, and to a lesser extent supernatural shows like Doctor Who and Supernatural. At least they’re honest about breaking the law – they treat is with more reverence than TV detectives)

    Glad to see I’m not alone here.

  32. 32.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @morzer: Do you know that? I have here in my hand a list of 205—a list of [unicorns] that were made known to the Secretary of [Unicorns] as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the [Unicorn] Department.”

  36. 36.

    Larry Signor

    I still remember the day the CIA murdered Che, six months before the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. That was a year and a half after Malcolm X was murdered. John Kennedy was murdered a year and a half before Malcolm X. Times are tough today. I have to believe we have been through worse and our humanity survived. So I believe it will, again. We are a tougher crowd than we have ever been.

  38. 38.

    burnspbesq

    He hasn’t yet failed up on the scale of George W. Bush, who went from failure in the awl bidness to failure running the Texas Rangers to failure as Guv to failure as Pres. But Richie Farmer, who was a starter on the Kentucky team that lost to Duke in the most famous college basketball game ever, is a candidate for the Republican nomination for Lt. Gov of Kentucky.

  45. 45.

    Mark S.

    @DFS:

    Shit I missed that line!

    That was a good doc. It’s scary how good Tyson was in his youth. It’s amazing how much he sucked towards the end.

  46. 46.

    Allison W.

    Newser: “Combative Obama Attacks GOP”

    The media demands that the president be more passionate yet when Obama gets fired up and calls out the GOP, he’s called combative, and angry.

    Saw a clip today of Rick Sanchez asking a Republican guest if Obama was too personal in his attacks – wtf? hmmm, lets see: the GOP questions his citizenship, his patriotism, and his religion and its pffft. Obama calls out boehner on his own words and Sanchez asks if it was too personal?

  47. 47.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Am I the only one who, before clicking through to this thread, thought the title was a reference to tunchlilyrosie snagging John’s La-Z-Boy, and that there would be pictures?

    Just me, huh?

    Guess it’s a generational thing . . . .

  48. 48.

    stuckinred

    @Larry Signor: I feel the same way. I was on an arty field problem in Korea when we got the news of MLK. Bobby was killed when I was in training to ship out to the Nam a few months later and then one of my best friends was killed with the Marines up north in November. I was so fucking angry when I came home I really thought this country was going have armed conflict. This shit sucks but it’s nothing like that was. . .IMHO.

  49. 49.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Allison W.:

    Saw a clip today of Rick Sanchez asking a Republican guest if Obama was too personal in his attacks

    Wasn’t Obama talking about their votes and actions as elected public officials? I don’t think Rick really understands what “personal” means. Maybe the tazer rattled his brains.

  54. 54.

    Chad N Freude

    @Corner Stone: I guess this means I’m becoming famous on this blog. You all can discount the cryptic reference, I seem to have unintentionally hurt CS’s feelings in another thread.

  55. 55.

    Martin

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hey, it’s not their fault they voted the way they did. Blame Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Paine – they set the standard here, and Obama is a big black dick for talking smack against the founders.

  58. 58.

    Steeplejack

    @John W.:

    I agree with your second point, too, which I almost started to make in my previous post. I like Burn Notice, The Mentalist, etc., because they are explicitly outside or semi-outside the lines. That black guy on Criminal MInds violates people’s rights (and roughs them up) just asking where the copier machine is, and the token black FBI guy on Lie to Me is almost as bad. Give me Psych, White Collar and Human Target any day. And also The Good Guys, which is extremely funny. I think it’s coming back this fall.

    I just started watching Leverage, and the jury is still out for me. (On whether I like it, not whether it’s part of the all-suspects-are-perps, cops-can-do-whatever-they-like genre. It’s not.)

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m watching Who Killed the Electric Car?, in accordance with my will. Boy do I hate Arnold Schwarzenagger.

  64. 64.

    Chad N Freude

    @Martin: Not so. He says a lot of stuff that sounds defensive when I try to talk to him about Winning Friends and Influencing People.

  66. 66.

    John W.

    @Steeplejack:

    Exactly. I like all those shows in theory, those in practice can’t stand a few (Leverage’s writing is very hit and miss, and the Mentalist just completely ripped off Psych).

    But in terms of outside the lines … exactly. Couldn’t say it better myself.

  70. 70.

    Nick L

    @stuckinred: @Larry Signor:

    I dunno, guys, I think the state America is in now is, broadly, worse.

    It’s true that there hasn’t been a political assassination in quite some time, and that less Americans are dying in war than in Vietnam. But much of that is because war itself has changed – the Iraq War was in many ways bloodier for Iraqis than Vietnam was for the Vietnamese, and that’s blood which is entirely on our hands. Likewise, Afghanistan is a relatively low-intensity war as far as wars go, but it’s still one of two wars of choice we’re fighting simultaneously. I also feel that, along with the continued trauma of 9/11 and political ruthlessness of the Aughts GOP, they’ve torn the country apart far more savagely than Vietnam ever did.

    Speaking of the GOP, I’m quite concerned that they may be heading down the road of fascism. This is probably unfair and hysterical, but when I read about Gingrich blasting NY officials for not blocking the mosque, the silence among GOP leaders regarding the Quran burning, the ignorant fearmongering and blatant lying, and the rampant corporatism, I do begin to worry. Coupled with the rise of an anti-Islamic far-right in Europe, I fear that things could get very ugly very quickly. At the least, it’s certainly bad for the formerly proud intellectual tradition of American conservatism.

    And then, of course, there’s the economy. 9.6% unemployment doesn’t do it justice; what we’re really in is an inhomogeneous depression, with some places (like the Dakotas) being at more-or-less full employment, while other places (like Detroit) are above 15% unemployment. For the first time since the 20’s/30’s, we’re in an economic situation that’s a result of rapid detrimental structural change.

    Also, our media is beyond atrocious, our culture is in many ways vapid and inane, our politics is the worst it’s been since Reconstruction, etc. etc. etc.

    But it’s not all doom-and-gloom. A list of things that give me hope:

    – Obama. I firmly believe that he’s the best president we’ve had since FDR, that his policies have helped the US economy and US foreign policy transition as smoothly as possible to a post-American Empire, has vastly improved the federal government after decades of sclerosis and dysfunction, and that he’s the only figure that could keep the country together as well as it has. It’s worth noting that he is, by a large margin, the most trusted and favorably-viewed politician in the country. The US is in a period of permanent, irreversible decline, and there’s nobody I’d rather have at the helm than Obama.

    – America is still the #1 destination for immigrants (alongside Canada), and mosque-fearmongering aside, is still in many ways a friendly place for Muslims. This is good for our culture, good for the long-term economy, and good for the country.

    – Much of American culture is still quite rich – television, literature, music, and art are as good as they’ve ever been, even if there’s some prevalent dreck out there. (people who say that music was “so much better” in their decade of choice should really go back and listen to the top 10 lists from those years)

    – Even though things are pretty rough for America right now, the world is more peaceful and prosperous than it’s ever been.

    – Democracy has, against all odds, survived in much of Africa.

    – America’s definitely been in worse places before – the Civil War comes to mind – and we can make the best out of this.

  71. 71.

    Kristine

    @goblue72: Thank you for this, because all I’ve been reading today is how Dems suck and we’re going to lose the House and Senate and Darryl (sp?) Issa will be sending fleets of trucks to the WH for to pick up the subpoenaed documents and it will be Speaker Boehner. And it will get worse from there, but I can’t bear thinking about it to type it. And I think I need to get some sleep. But thanks again for the righteous rant.

  75. 75.

    soonergrunt

    Hey, all.
    I’m just going to check in briefly here. I’ve been taking care of some family business and some thing around the house for the last few days so I have been offline.
    As you all know, I’ll be indisposed on Wednesday. I’m dealing with a few other things tomorrow, and checking into the hospital tomorrow afternoon. I am really not looking forward to this. Assuming that everything goes well, I should be home Saturday or Sunday.
    Please take no news as good news, as my wife doesn’t have much use for this internet stuff except to pay the bills and so forth.
    I’ll appreciate whatever prayers, good thoughts, positive energy or whatever your personal beliefs permit, and I’ll catch you all on the flip side.

  80. 80.

    Chad N Freude

    I don’t want my ongoing dialogue with Corner Stone to become a thread hijack. Could one of the front-pagers put up BJ Politeness Finishing School post?

  81. 81.

    Steeplejack

    @John W.:

    I started watching The Mentalist before Psych, but I can see your point. And I agree with you about Leverage. My only exposure is the marathon that was on whatever channel yesterday, and it was very uneven.

  86. 86.

    Keith G

    @soonergrunt:

    I hope all goes fantastically. I miss your regular commentary.

    I have been quite busy with some unexpected tasks and missed your latest update. Can you send a link my way?

  87. 87.

    Allison W.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Wasn’t Obama talking about their votes and actions as elected public officials?

    While commenting on boehner’s own words, Obama joked that boehner “thinks” he will be speaker in the next Congress.

    Poor widdle boehner waah.

  88. 88.

    Chad N Freude

    @soonergrunt: I’ve been reading here about your situation, and I haven’t commented before now, but if you don’t come out of this okay I will be VERY angry with you. Beware the Wrath Of Me!

    Yeah, I know, making bad jokes is a cover for fear. OK, I’m worried about you, man.

  95. 95.

    WaterGirl

    @morzer: I am trying to figure out whether I have network connectivity issues or if cspan and youtube all have crappy video of the speech. Is anyone else having issues with the quality of the video of the speech?

  98. 98.

    goblue72

    @ruemara: My rants are public domain, copyright-free, just like the good Lord above intended.

    Seriously, if all these firebaggers, DailyKosbaggers, leftier-than-thou nuts took half-a-minute to take a breath, one might actually be surprised at how much progressive legislation was passed in the teeth of a completely unified, batshit insane, traitorous mofo-ing opposition on one side while our own caucus has half its members bought & paid for by the same corporate leeches that drove our economy into the ditch.

  99. 99.

    Mike in NC

    Dems suck and we’re going to lose the House and Senate and Darryl (sp?) Issa will be sending fleets of trucks to the WH for to pick up the subpoenaed documents and it will be Speaker Boehner.

    Oh for Christ’s sake, give it a rest already. I worked in DC back during the Gringrich/Armey/DeLay era when the media was sucking up to those clowns and a wingnut in my office used a memo pad referring to the “Permanent Republican Majority”. She was also working on Phil Graham’s presidential campaign. So how many of those assholes are still in office? How did that play out?

    Whatever meager gains the GOP makes in an off-year election will be offset when they march off a cliff, as they always do. Just give the bastards enough rope to hang themselves.

  102. 102.

    gwangung

    Seriously, if all these firebaggers, DailyKosbaggers, leftier-than-thou nuts took half-a-minute to take a breath, one might actually be surprised at how much progressive legislation was passed in the teeth of a completely unified, batshit insane, traitorous mofo-ing opposition on one side while our own caucus has half its members bought & paid for by the same corporate leeches that drove our economy into the ditch.

    Don’t we all forget that those bought and paid for members are pretty much Republicans driven out of the GOP by the wingnuts? And taking on those members means that the Democratic party is changed—that any progressive agenda is going to be executed more slowly and more haltingly than most people think?

  104. 104.

    WaterGirl

    @soonergrunt:

    I’ll appreciate whatever prayers, good thoughts, positive energy or whatever your personal beliefs permit, and I’ll catch you all on the flip side.

    If this is multiple choice, I’m going with all of the above. Have been sending you all of the above for the past few days, but if you haven’t been receiving them from all of us we will just have to try harder.

    I think you are doing an amazing job of handling this situation.

  105. 105.

    suzanne

    @soonergrunt: Oh, one other thing. May I recommend buying lunch or bagels or something for your surgical team and nurses? When I had surgery a few years ago, I brought some bagels and cream cheese or something. As I was being wheeled out, the nurse who had assisted on the surgery thanked me, and said that half of them hadn’t gotten to eat breakfast BEFORE CUTTING MY NECK OPEN AND STRETCHING MY NERVES AND TAKING STUFF OUT. Scared the piss out of me. Call me crazy, but I want the people who are quite literally holding my life in their hands to be firing on all eight, yanno?

    I also drew an arrow and wrote “operate here” on myself with a Sharpie marker. But I’m paranoid.

  106. 106.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @soonergrunt: You may add me to the long list of friends and admirers and fellow Juicers who are thinking of you and sending the purest of healing energy your way. Looking forward to seeing you back here, healthier than ever, in a few days.

    @thread: I watched POTUS’s sppech to the Milwaukee AFL-CIO on C-SPAN just now. That’s the guy I worked so hard for in 2008. He was Fired Up and Ready to Go! And when he’s en fuego like that, there’s *nobody* who connects better with a crowd. Yeah, I know labor is his base, but damn, they sure did love them some Obama today!

    It’s nice to be an Obot. I love that he ran on stage with his shirtsleeves rolled up. I love that he went off-script, very effectively, a few times. And my heart just melts whenever he gives that cute little chuckle always followed by a big grin. Despite everything, I’m very proud that he’s my President right now.

  107. 107.

    jl

    @soonergrunt: Good luck, soonergrunt. You will be in my thoughts. Been hiking in mountains for a week and am full of hopeful, tranquil, thoughts that I will send your way.

  108. 108.

    RalfW

    @goblue72: Abso-fricken-lutely. Can’t say it better, so I’ll be a bore and repeat it, ’cause the truth is good to hear from time to time:

    We are at war with a political enemy composed of racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic, corporate-whore monger TRAITORS who would gladly grind the American worker into dust for 30 pieces of silver. And who just so happen to control a large swath of the mass media.

    So, kudos to Obama this Labor Day. Coulda been worse is tough campaign platform. Hope he finds a few more “like a dog” lines/moments.

  110. 110.

    jl

    After being in the Sierra for a week, I want to turn around and go back.

    Went to Devil’s Postpile to hike out of their for Labor Day weekend, because we thought that would be a not crowded place. That was a big mistake. Everyone who was not hiking in Yosemite was hiking out of Devil’s Postpile.

    Edit: Nice speech by Obama today. I hope he keeps it up nonstop until and after election day.

    Edit edit: Also, good, by God, I went to Bodie. Or is it goodby God, I went to Bodie? Either way, best dang ghost town I ever done seen. Amazing.

  111. 111.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @General Stuck: You’re more than welcome! For anything in particular, or just thanks in general?

    (“In general,” heh.)

  112. 112.

    Yutsano

    @suzanne:

    I also drew an arrow and wrote “operate here” on myself with a Sharpie marker. But I’m paranoid

    Whether you are paranoid or not is between you and your mental health professional. THIS IS NOT A BAD IDEA. I have a friend who’s a surgeon, he’s usually an exhausted internist, and when you consider the odds of the person cutting you open is an internist on a 30 hour stint are pretty high, any preventative measures are just damn smart. In fact they are supposed to mark you up according to the ordering physician’s notes before they lay another hand on you. Another good tip is to make sure your surgery department follows checklists. A lot of doctors don’t like them, but hospitals that have instituted mandatory surgical checklists have seen their medical errors go way down.

    @soonergrunt: Kick ass and take names soldier.

  113. 113.

    jl

    @suzanne: Saw your comment via Yutsano. Thanks for the tips, that I will remember to bring snacks, and mark myself, if I ever need an operation.

    And yeah, I would like to believe that US surgeons and nurses would be well rested and fed before they cut someone open. But probably unlikely. Putting exhausted hard working people in impossible situations is how we do medicine in the US. The insane US medical doctor superhero ethos is partly to blame, but the for profitization of US medicine deserves a big chunk of blame as well.

  114. 114.

    db

    You know, DougJ, your post of Iggy made me think that with a liberal-conservative translator:

    Woodstock=GoingGalt

    F@%* it… I am going to swim naked in some mud.

  115. 115.

    HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist

    @jl: Bodie is the best dang park in California. We go there just about every year. I love the Eastern Sierras. If you can ever find the time and money to stay in the June Lake loop just south of Mono, I highly recommend it. Aside from just being gorgeous, it makes me want to learn how to fish for trout…

  116. 116.

    FlipYrWhig

    @goblue72:

    while our own caucus has half its members bought & paid for by the same corporate leeches that drove our economy into the ditch.

    No, see, if Obama really wanted to get things done he’d simply use arm-twisting and primary challenges against, like, 100 candidates, so all he really would have to do is find 100 candidates more progressive than the incumbents and more likely to win in their districts, and because he doesn’t do that, like LBJ would have, it proves he’s corporate, man. And also he likes to assassinate people and you may be next.

  118. 118.

    Zuzu's Petals

    @jl:

    Edit edit: Also, good, by God, I went to Bodie. Or is it goodby God, I went to Bodie? Either way, best dang ghost town I ever done seen. Amazing.

    Also the official gold rush ghost town of California.

    It was going to just be the official ghost town period, but the Calico special interests kicked up a fuss, so Bodie is the official gold rush ghost town and Calico is the official silver rush ghost town.

    Seriously, it’s true.

  120. 120.

    Bob Loblaw

    @goblue72:

    (heck, if we were in the middle of the Pres. H.R. Clinton administration)

    Really? In your hard charging Democratic unity speech, you just relitigated 2008 why? The Secretary of State has a secret desire to obliterate the UAW? This is how you see the world?

    The further and further we get away from it, the more and more I see how counterproductive that primary was. It just turned people paranoid at every turn. Somebody inside the party is always out to get you. So keep circling the wagons, and above all, protect the narrative. Narrative uber alles.

  125. 125.

    roshan

    Sooner, you fucking asshole, take care of yourself. I just couldn’t bring myself to say it nicely but, yeah, take care of yourself. I’m an all round pathetic person.

  126. 126.

    Bob Loblaw

    @Yutsano:

    He said Hillary Clinton would have thrown GM to the wolves. Why? On what basis? Couldn’t tell you. What does that aside have to do with Republicans? Wasn’t that supposed to be the point of his post? It’s apparently not Us vs. Them. That’s not good enough. It’s Us vs. Them vs. Other Them. In a post about Democratic unity. Apparently I’m the only one to find this paranoia weird…

  127. 127.

    Yutsano

    @Bob Loblaw: So you choose to focus your outrage…on a paranthetical. The substance of the comment was relating to a McCain administration. Okay then. The point is missed, and it wasn’t by me.

  129. 129.

    Bob Loblaw

    @Yutsano:

    And yet, the paranthetical specifically equates a hypothetical Republican and hypothetical Democratic administration. Isn’t that Balloon Juice’s cardinal sin? Where were the people screaming Naderite at such a ridiculous statement?

    Do you want people pledging to help the party because you agree with its (broadly stated, if not unanimous) platforms, or because it helps Obama personally? Because the motivations are very different, and help to explain so much of the acrimony this site devolves into on a daily basis.

  130. 130.

    jl

    @Zuzu’s Petals:

    “Aside from restaurants, RV hookups and gold-panning lessons, there is an array of special events at Calico–Civil War reenactments, a chili cook-off, a Wild West parade and the National Gunfight Stunt Championships.”

    And Calico also has a rock shop. With an owner. Who apparently is alive.

    (edit: quoted from your link)

    What kind of ghost town is that?

    But, more power too Calico if they arranged for CA to have two official ghost towns. I guess we have one official real ghost town and one tourist trap ghost town.

    As a Californian, I have long been jealous of the bigger and sillier tourist traps along the old route 66 in other states. We need to step up in that department, so glad to hear about Calico.

    BTW: ghost town fans should check out Columbia state park if they are going by Sonora. That is a good ghost town too. It’s been thoroughly restored though (probably had to be due to the wetter climate, or it would be a pile of debris by now).

  131. 131.

    Yutsano

    @Bob Loblaw:

    And yet, the paranthetical specifically equates a hypothetical Republican and hypothetical Democratic administration. Isn’t that Balloon Juice’s cardinal sin? Where were the people screaming Naderite at such a ridiculous statement?

    Ummm…what? No it does not say that Clinton would have acted in the exact same fashion as McCain in all instances. But again you’re arguing what is more or less a throwaway line. IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

    @roshan: The wan wan part is very cute, mostly because it’s childspeak more or less. If anyone is curious, the “adult” word for dog in Japanese is inu.

  133. 133.

    gwangung

    And yet, the paranthetical specifically equates a hypothetical Republican and hypothetical Democratic administration.

    No, it doesn’t.

  134. 134.

    Yutsano

    @Cain: Just out of curiosity, do you know where Zell’s is in Portland? It ranks as one of my favorite restaurants there. I tried it while visiting with a friend and liked it so much I insisted on going back later when we met up with other friends. Of course that was just an awesome trip all around anyway…

    @gwangung: Grazie mille! I thought that whole damn argument was on crack anyway.

  135. 135.

    Cain

    @stuckinred:

    @John W.: When the cop breaks the fingers of the kid for stealing the car I guess it wasn’t “procedure”.
    Reply

    It’s sharia law, just like Obama promised!

    cain

  137. 137.

    Cain

    @soonergrunt:

    I’ll appreciate whatever prayers, good thoughts, positive energy or whatever your personal beliefs permit, and I’ll catch you all on the flip side.

    Good luck, my man. You’re on the side of angels.

    cain

  138. 138.

    Mark S.

    @Yutsano:

    I disagree. It was an unnecessary swipe at Hillary.

    Everybody’s been ornery as hell today. Except me, I’ve been all sweetness and light.

  139. 139.

    Cain

    @Yutsano:

    @Cain: Just out of curiosity, do you know where Zell’s is in Portland? It ranks as one of my favorite restaurants there. I tried it while visiting with a friend and liked it so much I

    Hey – can’t say I’ve ever been there. Google tells me you might mean “Zell’s Cafe”? I’ll have to try it. There is a lot of good food around in that area.. not so much where I live. The suburbs have none of pdx’s culture unfortunately. Strip malls, and corporate offices and what not. Sad, really.

    Now if they would only do a punjabi indian roach coach… mmm..

    cain

  141. 141.

    Yutsano

    @Cain: Heh. There’s a Punabi restaurant right across the street from my new job. I haven’t gotten the chance to try it yet and may not in the immediate future as I will only get half hour lunches during training and I’m trying to economize some until the paychecks roll in steady. But if it’s anything like the Pakistani place I ate at in Phoenix…I may just have their to-go menu handy in my desk. :)

    And Zell’s is a definite try. Half their options are vegetarian/vegan (but they’re not afraid of the meat), the menu rotates constantly due to seasonality, and they bake these scones on premises that are to DIE for. If I get down that way again I’m going there in a heartbeat.

  142. 142.

    Platonicspoof

    __
    @soonergrunt:

    I’ll appreciate whatever . . .

    I’m hoping you’ve already gone to bed and you’re getting rested up,
    but take care, and if you can find a tube to the intertrons in the hospital, a little early news would be very good news.

  143. 143.

    goblue72

    @Yutsano: Some people miss the forest for the trees. And some people like Bob go to the forest, take some really good drugs and get lost in the woods for a couple of days. My only advice to Bob is to drink a glass or two of water, take a multivitamin and sleep it off.

  144. 144.

    Yutsano

    @goblue72: This:

    I disagree. It was an unnecessary swipe at Hillary.

    was a much more succinct and effective criticism than what Bob proposed. But I suppose that’s the difference between reasonable discussion and keeping score.

  145. 145.

    Bob Loblaw

    @goblue72:

    You accused the Secretary of State of a ravenous anti-labor bias that would have cost this country hundreds of thousands of jobs. I’d assume this means that you consider her manifestly unqualified to handle this nation’s international trade policy and are seeking to have her removed from office before she can harm the American worker any further, right? Because that would be the intellectually honest thing to do. Z follows X by way of Y, after all.

    Unless you weren’t being intellectually honest. But if that’s the case, then why should anybody be listening to anything else you have to say? Tighten your fucking game up before you go running your mouth next time.

  146. 146.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @soonergrunt:

    I hope everything goes extremely well and I will keep you in mind. Here’s to everything going well and a quick recovery.

    /tip of the drink to ya!

    OHM +3

    Seriously, take care and hope all goes well!!

  147. 147.

    Sly

    @goblue72:

    (heck, if we were in the middle of the Pres. H.R. Clinton administration)

    Though this is purely speculation on my part, I hold that an H. Clinton administration would function, in the majority of respects, exactly like the Obama Administration and would have similar policy victories and failures. The differences would largely be optical, minor, and center around (some) slightly different personalities in the West Wing. Likewise, I thought the intraparty vitriol was pretty fucking stupid, even though I thought the extended primary season worked out rather well for Democrats in general.

    Some just can’t forgive her for the AUMF vote, which became the cardinal sin of Democrats, and the only evidence one needed that someone was a DLC/Rahm!/Corporatist/Warmonger asshole, sometime in the the beginning of 2003, when a largely conservative Democrat named Howard Dean got the anti-war left all riled up. I imagine its the very same people who are regurgitating puerile tripe like “Graveyard of Empire!” in conversations on Obama/Afghanistan.

    @soonergrunt:

    I’ll appreciate whatever prayers, good thoughts, positive energy or whatever your personal beliefs permit, and I’ll catch you all on the flip side.

    May your doctor(s) be supremely competent and well suited to the task ahead of them.

  148. 148.

    Laertes

    Thanks for that clip.

    It still just makes me happy to listen to that man speak, and know that he is the President. I’ve got to remember to savor this more often.

  149. 149.

    Yutsano

    @Sly:

    May your doctor(s) be supremely competent and well suited to the task ahead of them.

    IIRC the VA/military is handling the vast majority of Mr Grunt’s medical needs, and whatever else you may think of the military their medical staffings are some of the best in the world bar none. When my dad was a sailor I got some of the best treatment by some of the most competent physicians out there when I was younger. So that part for me at least is not a concern.

    @Laertes: Obama just needs to talk more. Period. Lots of folks disagree with his policies but when push comes to shove they all LIKE him immensely. The more he can be shown speaking and relating to people the better it gets.

  150. 150.

    Mark S.

    @Sly:

    I agree entirely. Both of them are middle of the road Democrats. I honestly don’t know if Hillary would have had more or less success getting health care passed, but aside from that, I can’t think of a major issue that she would have handled much differently than Obama has.

    I voted for Obama in the primary but would have had no problem if Hillary had gotten the nomination. It was very gracious of Obama to make her Secretary of State.

  151. 151.

    Yutsano

    @Mark S.: My main opposition to Hillary was the fact that I wanted to break the Bush/Clinton string and get some fresh faces in the White House. Well I got a few starting with the head cheese but there were also some Clinton redux folks in there as well. It’s an ugly part of our politics that when the opposition party regains control of the WH they are expected to return some of the old staff into new positions. Sometimes this makes sense since you want some experience there. But other times I wish we would just clean slate every person for once.

    And I think Hillary is in a position where, if she can’t be President, she can still make her mark on the country and on history. So essentially Obama gave her what she wanted even if it was technically a consolation prize.

  152. 152.

    NobodySpecial

    Here’s what you need to know about Obama – if we were in the middle of the Pres. McCain administration (heck, if we were in the middle of the Pres. H.R. Clinton administration), there’d be one American auto company (Ford) left – maybe. GM would have been busted into pieces and sold to the Japanese. Chrysler would have been ever worse off than it is. And UAW would have been no more.

    Full quote to emphasize that whatever GoBlue is selling, it sure looks like he’s equating the outcomes from a McCain administration with a Clinton administration.

    Perhaps instead of trying to snark, GoBlue could actually clarify that they meant that if Clinton were President, all that would happen or not.

  155. 155.

    MJ

    @soonergrunt:
    Keep your head up Soonergrunt! Our prayers are with you and your family. You have orders to report back here as soon as you are feeling better.

  157. 157.

    thalarctos

    @suzanne: When I had some fluid drawn off my lung a few years ago, my surgeon friend (not doing the cutting) rehearsed me:

    “What are you in here for?” “To have fluid drawn out of my lung.” “No, not your ‘lung’; always your ‘left lung’. Drumbeat repetition on every occasion, to drill it into their minds.” And that was a surgeon telling me to do that.

    Here across the pond there’s a big scandal in the news about a child who was supposed to have a bad kidney removed. (yes, you know what’s coming…) The surgeon took the good kidney out instead, by accident. The parents kept saying they thought it was the other side, but weren’t listened to.

    What I’m saying is, you’re not paranoid, and if I ever have surgery again, I’m going to draw a map, diagram, and flowchart on my body for the surgeons.

  160. 160.

    Frank

    @gwangung:

    And taking on those members means that the Democratic party is changed—-that any progressive agenda is going to be executed more slowly and more haltingly than most people think?

    You do realize that most of those members come from red districts? Would you rather have Republicans?

    Without their votes, we wouldn’t have HCR (just like in 1994). Without their votes, we wouldn’t have Wall Street Reform. Without them, there probably wouldn’t even have been a stimulus bill to start with or it would have been much smaller.

  161. 161.

    WereBear (itouch)

    Best to soonergrunt!

    I like HRC very much, and her administration would have in no way resembled a McCain one. However, I don’t think it would be as successful as Obama’s has been. In many ways this would have been Clinton redux, and the same old crap would still be recycled endlessly.

    I’ve noticed that the right wing basically leaves her alone now. WTF? I thought she was everything that was wrong with Western Civilization to them?

  162. 162.

    AxelFoley

    soonergrunt, I don’t know you, but if the folks here vouch for you, you’re an ok joe in my book. Prayers with you, my friend.

  164. 164.

    Frank

    @WereBear (itouch):

    I like HRC very much, and her administration would have in no way resembled a McCain one. However, I don’t think it would be as successful as Obama’s has been. In many ways this would have been Clinton redux, and the same old crap would still be recycled endlessly.I’ve noticed that the right wing basically leaves her alone now. WTF? I thought she was everything that was wrong with Western Civilization to them?

    I thought she ran a terrible campaign and based on her campaign I would never have voted for her in the general if she had beaten Obama. For example, she took things Obama said totally out of context and accused him of things he never said, such as his speech about Reagan. And her idea of gas tax holiday seemed to be just about getting cheap votes on a proposal that made no sense whatsoever.

    That said, I’m very impressed by her as Secretary of State. She is finally showing that she is a team player and good at it. I do hope she runs in 2016 as she now has earned my vote. I even hope that Biden resigns before that election so that Clinton can replace him and have an easier campaign in 2016.

  165. 165.

    Remember November

    If by chance the GOP retakes either the House or Senate- I don’t think they can do both, and play Walmart roll-back the American people will suffer while the GOP passes out checks on the House floor to whiny Wall St. pacs. You know they will, in defernce ot their paymasters. Also, too should that happen the Dems should quid pro quo and bukakke their own obstructionism, and point pack to the last 20 months.
    If they don’t they’re just abused spouses.

    People forget WAll St is dependent on publicly traded companies. If they bet against themselves, that is a short stack powderkeg that’s gonna go boom real quick.

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