I don’t know when 9/11 become a sort of holiday, but it certainly is one now. Is there any precedent for this? Was December 7 ever treated like this? When my WWII veteran grandparents and high school teachers mentioned it, they always seemed sad. I can’t imagine them or anyone else buying VIP tickets to celebrate the day with tv hosts and half-term governors.
Reader Interactions
191Comments
Comments are closed.
Ohio Mom
In my kid’s junior high school, everyone was supposed to were red, white or blue today. I sent him in wearing a tie-dyed shirt. Can’t know if anyone there understood the reference (DFH).
salacious crumb
I mentioned this in the previous post comments, but did anyone notice that even Roger Cohen of NYT has come out against the mosque? thoughts?
NobodySpecial
Thoughts from Roger Cohen? You run with that, dog.
morzer
I imagine that sooner or later the tides of history will reduce 9/11 to just another day in the calendar. Patience, patience.
Katherine Hunter
i remember Pearl Harbor and how the ladies of the neighborhood learned to can so i canned all the tomatoes in my garden / i thought we were going to have a war effort as we did for WW2 / when President Bush told us to shop i bought 400 daffodil bulbs and planted them as my personal memorial to the victims of 911 / all our “holy days” usually turn into buying something / why not 911 / shop till you drop / i still use this time to harvest and put food by for the winter to come.
the stupid, it burns
soonergrunt
9/11 is wingnut christmas. It was everything they ever dreamed of, and the fact that most of the victims were liberals from the east coast and New York City only makes it all the more important to them.
If you go back to 2005-2006 timeframe, and re-read the stuff they were saying, especially in the lead up to the mid-term elections in ’06, you’ll notice an almost wistful quality to some of it, and posts, particularly at Red State and other wingnut gathering places that borders on hoping for another attack.
There is something seriously wrong with these fuckers.
DougJ
@salacious crumb:
Terrible! I hate when people compare 9/11 to Auschwitz, it’s unbelievable. Where do you even start? I’m staying away from writing about it because it was so terrible.
Sarah in Brooklyn
I was a block away from the towers on the real 9/11. Nine years later, I feel nothing. Whatever was important about that day has been hijacked by idiots. I’m going to go for a bike ride and pretend it just fucking Saturday.
MikeBoyScout
Festival! Festival! Festival!
h/t Moosilini
Davis X. Machina
@soonergrunt: An unhealthy fascination with ‘smiting’, going back to Vacation Bible School days, is my guess. “Let’s play Israelites and Amaleks….”
Yutsano
December 7th was the birthday of one of my exes. The only one I would consider taking back too.
Now a little more germane, here’s a thought: if we REALLY want to respect the victims of the aftermath of 9/11, how’s about we stop framing it as the worstest day evah and we will never recover and just go back to paying silent respect at 9:34 AM then going on with our day? I recall an interview with a 9/11 widow when asked what she wanted it was just to get back to a normal life and to stop being venerated just because her husband died. I should have known things would get overhyped because it’s falling on a Saturday but jeez the grifters aren’t done milking this yet.
And I bet Bible Spice doesn’t say word one about the 9/11 victim money being held up in Congress by her peeps.
@soonergrunt:
And they’re about to get the keys to the kingdom again. FUN!!
jacy
I remember in junior high we had a girl who’s mother was Japanese. She happened to be absent one day in December and our gym teacher, who was a stereotypical poster boy for fat, obnoxious gym teachers, asked her, “What, did you do, take Pearl Harbor day off?”
Luckily, she was popular and well-adjusted and just laughed in his face.
Ah, yes, the good old days, when life was like an unintentionally offensive sitcom.
soonergrunt
Oh, and one more time, due to the fucking filter that cannot tell one word from another (and apparently doesn’t get checked):
SSG Giunta will be awarded the Medal of Honor by the President on behalf on Congress at a White House ceremony to be scheduled later.
schrodinger's cat
This country changed after that fateful day in September and not in a good way. The way the Republican party has milked this tragedy is truly despicable.
Southern Beale
So, what books are YOU burning to celebrate the holiday?
:-)
JWL
“I don’t know when 9/11 become a sort of holiday, but it certainly is one now”.
No it’s not.
To be sure, it will forever be a national remembrance. As is proper.
Right wing assholes will attempt to make hay about it from here on out, that’s all. Just like they do about everything else of national import.
DougJ
@soonergrunt:
I’ll clean the filter, I’ve been locked out almost all day.
Mike
@soonergrunt:
9/11 is wingnut christmas.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/cheney-waits-until-last-minute-again-to-buy-sept-1,2521/
Violet
When I was in college, one of the fraternities had an annual Tora! Tora! Tora! party on December 7th. They served kamikazes.
Davis X. Machina
@Southern Beale: DIckens’ Our Mutual Friend. Nothing really wrong with it, but it burns for hours, and I want to smoke a turkey.
Linda Featheringill
@Katherine Hunter:
And how is the daffodil patch? It can still be a memorial. And some of those puppies live a long time.
Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall be taken advantage of.
Poopyman
@schrodinger’s cat:
The way this country let them milk it is truly despicable. I’m looking at you media/entertainment complex. 9/11 will remain a holiday as long as the Beck/Palin/Gingrich axis of evil is given play in the media.
Hey Sooner, howyadoon?
Linda Featheringill
@DougJ:
Twas a part of my Masters work in History.
Some things stain your being if you even talk about them.
Nine eleven we can talk about.
Violet
If you think 9/11 is bad this year, wait until next year. It’s the 10 year anniversary and it’s on a Sunday.
El Cid
Wonkette is always snarking about going out to celebrate 9/11 day and buying presents and so forth.
freelancer
@soonergrunt:
BAMF
schrodinger's cat
@Violet: It will be a circus with the all the Republican Presidential hopefuls out doing each other in sheer wingnuttiness.
Poopyman
Somebody better go check on Cole. I’m sure he’s overjoyed that the ‘Eers just scored a field goal and are now down only 14-6.
In the 3rd quarter.
Against Marshall.
Colleen
Just watch, next year on the 10th anniversary there won’t be as much hoopla as this year. Next year is not an election year.
Linda Featheringill
@Violet:
There is a reason why “frat boy” is an insult.
Violet
On the first anniversary of 9/11 I was on a ferry between Washington state and Victoria, Canada. They gave us all carnations and at the moment in time that the towers were struck they stopped the ferry and we had a moment of silence. Then everyone threw their carnations overboard. And then a pod of orcas appeared by the ferry and swam next to us for awhile.
It was pretty moving, actually.
El Cid
Also, The Onion has a special 9/11 day retrospective on their coverage.
There’s this sadly timely piece from September 26th of 2001.
Unrelatedly, there’s also this:
The picture alone is a masterpiece.
Mike Furlan
@schrodinger’s cat:
I’m sure that the Republicans are hoping to milk it for the next 600 years and more, like Serbian nationalists have been milking their defeat in the battle of Kosovo ever since 1389.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo
It will become our defining historical moment, defeat by the evil Muslims. Which will call for revenge from now till the end of days.
El Cid
@Violet: Remember, a bunch of geese flew over Glenn Beck just as he started Beckfest 2010. He felt it was a blessing from God. Apparently geese are cheaper to get than a pod of whales.
MikeBoyScout
On a serious note…
I’m sitting here on the west coast watching the Snooze Hour and they have some panel at 15 past the Snooze Hour where they are saying “Nine Eleven” every 30 seconds.
Does it appear to anyone else that nine years later the fact that so many are obsessed with that day is prima facie that bin Laden was a strategic genius and beat us in one fell swoop.
El Cid
I’m sorry, I have to share some of Wonkette’s “Twas the Night Before 9/11“:
There’s more. Though I think they forgot Fourthbranch.
morzer
@El Cid:
It might be irrelevant here, but when my wife and I got married, a pair of red-tailed hawks appeared over the town hall. We thought it was rather a nice omen, despite our relatively dovish dispositions.
MikeBoyScout
Back to humor… as it is the only way for me to get thru the stupidity.
Who is more qualified to be the Patron Saint of 9-11?
a) Rudy, Subject – Verb – 9/11, Giuliani?
b) William J. Casey?
El Cid
@morzer: I’m not snarking on all such things, just the silly Beck thing.
Poopyman
@El Cid:
SiubhanDuinne
For those of us who were actually around on 2001.09.11, the day will likely always have a resonance. Pearl Harbor happened just a few months before I was born — as a youngster I was definitely aware of it, and I still notice the date in the corners of my mind, but the truth is my generation has no first-hand experience of *that* world-changing life-shifting day. Fifty or so years from now, maybe sooner, I doubt many Americans will give 9/11 more than a passing thought.
To go back to the (implied) question of the thread: is there some specific way we *should* appropriately pay tribute year after year? I’m good with a few moments of silence, a wreath-laying à la Memorial Day or Veterans’ Day, and I will expect (and welcome) more substantive observations next year on the 10th anniversary, but otherwise I’d feel wrong turning it into a typical “Monday holiday” with towel sales and backyard BBQs as the primary attraction. But at the same time, I don’t feel inclined to go into deep mourning or solemnity.
Me, tomorrow? Car to the shop in the morning for what I devoutly hope will be a simple and inexpensive repair; the first of three Saturday “get organized” workshops in the afternoon; and a birthday party for a friend in the evening. IOW, it’s a Saturday. But I’ll pause to reflect shortly before 9:00 a.m.
El Cid
@MikeBoyScout: Anyone know where to find that video — maybe it was the Daily Show — where the 2008 Republican nomination debate was edited down to just every time each said “9/11” or terror or Al Qaida or bin Laden or whatever?
morzer
@El Cid:
No, never thought you were, mio Cid. I was simply amused by our human tendency to read so much into the activities of innocent creatures.
Mnemosyne
@El Cid:
Ah, now I understand why people were making Fabio jokes — I missed the goose part.
One can only hope they all let loose on his car at once.
Restrung
my #/## remembrance: Went to see hot new terrorists Jay and Silent Bob a few days later. When commander W said “go shopping” I bought a DVD player.
edit: geez, that sounds kinda dickish. I /could/ share more. not going to.
El Cid
@SiubhanDuinne: I think it’s a tough question. Many people might want to somehow commemorate it but not have to think about it all day.
DougJ
@SiubhanDuinne:
I think a moment of silence is appropriate. I realize moments of silence seem a cliche but I think they’re the right way to reflect on tragedy in a ritualistic way.
dmsilev
@El Cid: Because if there is one thing that there’s a shortage of, it’s Canada geese…
Someone sane should tell Beck that the only thing geese flying overhead signifies is that somewhere in a fifty mile radius there’s an un-crapped-upon swath of grass.
dms
Mnemosyne
@morzer:
Endangered species (liberals and red tailed hawks) making a comeback?
What do I know from birds, though — for a while there, I kept having blue jays follow me around so they could mock me, and we don’t get many of them in Los Angeles. It was very strange.
Svensker
I just got off a work chat board where theoretically civilized Americans were talking about how horrible it was that those barbaric Afghans were offended by the called-off Koran burning and how Christians never did anything horrible to other people like those awful Muslims.
How can people be so absolutely blind? Sorry about all the dead children, eh?
Daddy-O
The ‘holiday’ that 9-11 has become is obscene, and one of my personal pet peeves. For the last three years, at my regular posting site, I’ve asked people, in derision of Rudy 9iu11iani and now the Teabaggers: Where’s the party this weekend?
December 7 was NEVER celebrated. It was like most Veteran’s Days or Memorial Days…if there was a planned ceremony for the military, the utmost respect and reserved attitudes were on display only. Silence, downturned frowns, a remembrance.
These fucks are SICK.
Keith
I think by definition it’s when Glenn Beck takes it over for one of his money-making god/guns/gold rallies. I’ve come to the conclusion that he has adopted the WWE/UFC PPV model where he tries to have a big event monthly to bring in an additional revenue/visibility stream. I can’t wait for Beck to take back Halloween to its original roots – a holiday where our Founding Fathers wanted to dress like pagan demons to remember the role Jesus played in the creation of Article II of the Constitution.
morzer
@Svensker:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,716858,00.html
Interesting response from the daughter of Terry Jones. He seems to have an intriguing past as well.
Daddy-O
@morzer: I have NO DESIRE to reduce 9-11 to just another day in the calendar…
You’ve got a lot of nerve saying that. I don’t scold perfect strangers very often, but unless you just put your foot in your mouth, morzer, I’d have to say you have just a WHIFF of concern troll about you, trying to trick an unassuming BalloonJuicer into agreeing with this.
Violet
@El Cid:
I didn’t know that about Beck and the geese. I paid zero attention to his Teabaggerstock.
What I thought was really cool about the ferry trip was that the ferry people thought to give us flowers and have a moment of silence. It was a public ferry with both Americans and Canadians on it, and yet they still felt it was important to stop for a moment to honor those who lost their lives. When the orcas appeared at the end of the moment of silence it was really cool and life affirming. The whole ferry was kind of quiet and sad and then these glorious creatures appeared and we were all excited to see them. Life does go on.
Anne Laurie
@soonergrunt:
That would be the timeframe when someone (Charles Pierce?) suggested we start calling it Magical Pony Day, because the neocons & security-statists had managed to find the pony of the dreams buried in a Kilimanjaro of manure. Not that people like Rove, Cheney & Kristol didn’t enjoy every minute they got to roll around in that manure…
MikeBoyScout
@42 El Cid:
I remember it, but my googling couldn’t find it quickly. Pretty sure it was up on Youtube.
morzer
@Daddy-O:
You think we should continue to fetishize a day when 3000 people died and the US lost its collective shit? That’s pretty damn silly, frankly. We’ve seen days commemorating more significant events vanish into insignificance, and no-one cares. If 9/11 fades from the national memory, and becomes another day along the way, that would be a good thing for all of us. So, no, I am not going to listen to your scolding on this issue, unless you have something more incisive to offer.
jl
“I don’t know when 9/11 become a sort of holiday,”
As far as I can tell, it become one this year. Previously it has been a day of somber national remembrance, which as another commenter said, is what it should be. As is December 7, and Veterans and Memorial Days.
“but it certainly is one now.”
There is certainly is a midterm election in two months, and the day falls at the beginning of the campaign season.
I think this year’s disgraceful circus is because a certain ruthless political faction wants to use the day like a hammer to make campaign lawn signs.
It will be interesting to see what they do next year.
eemom
I think one can debate the best way to remember 9/11, and I am on board with a moment of silence. And of course the tragedy has been infinitely, obscenely exploited, from the Iraq war on down to ex-mayor Ghouliani.
Rude Pundit had a great, typically Rude Punditean piece last year about the “skull-fucking” of 9/11.
Until this Beck-Palin idiocy, though, I’ve never felt that anyone was making a “holiday” out of it.
Daddy-O
@morzer: My harsh, my bad. I don’t know you; others here obviously do, and after I finally read through all the comments, now I understand that you are not a Concern Troll. Please excuse me.
I don’t fetishize 9-11. But…the very thought of just forgetting about it is nonsense. We don’t forget about Gettysburg; we don’t forget about Pearl Harbor; and I never forget April 30. Why? That’s the last day of the Vietnam War…
Sure, maybe 300 years from now, we’ll ‘forget’ about 9-11. But wouldn’t some conservative asshole just love to see sixteen comments, all saying in some misinterpreted but inflammatory way “We need to forget 9-11”?
Villago Delenda Est
I ask my parents (both were in their twenties/teens at the time of Pearl Habor) about this once, and they both indicated that there was nothing like what I have come to call “The Wallow”; Americans bemoaning that the United States is the only country that has ever been attacked from the air, ever, in the entire history of mankind.
Daddy-O
@morzer: Maybe you could give me an example of a remarkable day in U.S. history that has faded in importance. Not trying to continue an argument, I’d be glad to agree with you.
MikeBoyScout
JFK 1960 Speech at the Houston Ministers
On Sept. 12, 1960, presidential candidate John F. Kennedy gave a major speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, a group of Protestant ministers, on the issue of his religion. At the time, many Protestants questioned whether Kennedy’s Roman Catholic faith would allow him to make important national decisions as president independent of the church. Kennedy addressed those concerns before a skeptical audience of Protestant clergy
If there is to be some sort of memorial to those who were killed in the attempt to divide this nation and the world on September 11th 2001, let’s take time to look back 50 years when leadership in the face of bigotry and prejudice was confronted head on with dignity, courage and intellect.
demkat620
@El Cid: But Uncle El Cid, how does it end? Please! PLeeaaasse! PLEASE!
morzer
@Daddy-O:
Do you really think that the absence of those 16 comments would stop the right-wing crazies from inventing them? Hell, we’ve seen them frame ACORN, Shirley Sherrod.. you name it, they’ve faked it or twisted it. We can’t avoid discussing issues just because the nut-jobs are listening. If we do that, it’s game over, and all that remains is to start dumping our unsuitable books and looking for a National Greatness Church to attend.
You say we don’t forget about Gettysburg. Well, I suspect quite a few people couldn’t even tell you the year when the battle was fought As for the end of the Vietnam War, again, I would bet that a good number of younger people haven’t the faintest idea when the war ended, and would struggle to say why it happened at all. Maybe it’s just me, but I think that history is something that turns to myth very quickly in this country, and so we never learn the lessons from it that we should.
Violet
@Daddy-O:
Seriously? You’d edit yourself in the comment section of a blog post because a conservative who might, maybe, possibly happen upon it could perhaps misinterpret it? Really?
There are lots of reasons I might edit myself in the comment section of a blog, but doing it to ward off misinterpretation by mythical conservative readers isn’t one of them. I listen to enough right wing talk radio to know they just make shit up to suit whatever their theme of the day is. They don’t need to read anything in the comment section of a blog to talk smack about anyone left of Attila the Hun.
Daddy-O
@Villago Delenda Est: Another reason 9-11 is so remarkable is: It launched not one, but TWO wars, one of them a complete fabrication. For many other reasons, most of them being the atrocities of the Iraq Invasion, 9-11 will be forever entwined with both wars.
And both wars are unwinnable, expensive and have ruined our world leader status.
Maude
@Daddy-O:
December 7th is rarely mentioned now.
They changed Armistice Day into Veterens Day.
The media forgets about Korea entirely. There’s a new book on the Korean war that’s just been published.
The problem I have with how they are going about 9/11 is that the haters are hating and the Repubs need an enemy. They have made Obama the domestic enemy, but they need a foreign one to keep things going.
9/11 has become a look at me event for people like Beck, Palin and all the other crazies.
Daddy-O
@Violet: Apparently you guys haven’t seen the ‘scandals’ that are suffered by blog owners from their comments…Kos, et al, have been excoriated by conservative asswipes for their commenters.
“Forget 9-11” is a perfect meme for them to grab and run with. No, I wouldn’t EDIT my comments, but I’d be careful HOW I said something. There is a difference, just like there’s a difference between fetishizing 9-11 and remembering it appropriately.
We really don’t have an argument here, unless you’re unaware of comments scandals. Of course, they’re bullshit, a tempest in a teapot, conservatives looking for a weak spot and pouncing on it. But why give them the ammunition?
jinxtigr
She had me before even starting the poem :)
As to 9-11: did Kristallnacht become a holiday, too?
MattR
@Daddy-O: I would have to use one of your examples, Gettysburg. In addition to not knowing the year, I would bet that the vast majority of Americans don’t even know which part of the year it occurred in. And they don’t know the Gettysburg address beyond “Four score and seven years ago”
eemom
Jake Tapper called — he’s preparing a tweet about this thread.
scav
Remember the Maine!
Remember the Alamo!
Ok class, put down your pens and lets check the dates you’ve all written down.
Violet
@Daddy-O:
The bombing of Pearl Harbor, Washington crossing the Delaware, Gettysburg, the Defense of Fort McHenry (the basis for the Star Spangled Banner), V-E Day. Should I go on? Those are important days in our history, yet they’re not routinely celebrated by any large number of people, if at all. Probably most people couldn’t identify all the dates, and a significant number couldn’t identify any of the dates.
Just Some Fuckhead
9/11 should be forever known as the day the Republicans proved inclusively they are incapable of running government.
Daddy-O
@morzer: No one forgot the lessons of Vietnam. Poppy Bush certainly didn’t; he got the fuck out of Iraq as soon as the gettin’ was good. George W. Bush didn’t forget the lessons of Vietnam; he never learned them to begin with, and even if he had, he would have invaded no matter what.
This country got a very good lesson from the Vietnam War. It took Old Man Ronnie to reassure Americans that it was all right to kill brown people again.
Villago Delenda Est
Off the top of my head, Gettysburg was fought over in early July of 1963, but to be more precise, I’d have to head to wiki and look it up.
Most wingtards wouldn’t bother to do even that. The only reason they can remember 9-11 is because it’s number one on their speed dials.
eemom
@MattR:
I think it was April. Or maybe that was Appomatox. (sheeyit, most Americans, including me, don’t even know how to spell Appomatox.)
“…..our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation.” Also too.
morzer
@Daddy-O:
Speaking for myself, I’d rather die on my feet than on my knees. The right-wing crazies will regard you as tainted by association anyway, just for being here. Are you going to give them a victory by censoring yourself, in the belief that it would stop them attacking you or us? If you truly think that you should abandon your freedom of speech on a pseudonymous blog, out of pure fear, that’s one of the saddest things I’ve heard in years.
jl
Washington’s and Lincoln’s birthdays lumped together for a convenient three day weekend.
Villago Delenda Est
Appomatox, April 1965. The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down (and all the people were singin’).
morzer
@Violet:
I thought Reagan crossed the Delaware, shortly before becoming Emperor Ronaldus Magnus. Was I wrong?
Restrung
srsly? Nobody talks about Dec 7 1941. Except on 12/7 every freakin year? You don’t listen to Eichten.
Daddy-O
@Violet: Gettysburg occurred on the Fourth of July and the days before and after it. People may not remember the date, but they remember the battle and the speech, especially.
Pearl Harbor Day is still remembered by MOST Americans. They may not know the exact day, but it’s not that hard to remember.
The other days you mentioned pale in comparison with 9-11. They just don’t match up.
Look; this isn’t really an argument, is it? Do you guys even THINK this country will forget 9-11 in even a hundred years? Unless an even bigger terrorist attack comes? Even if one does, 9-11 will always be the first.
soonergrunt
The thing that people need to do, whenever somebody brings it up tomorrow, is to say that we need to take a moment to remember the victims of republican/neocon incompetence. If they had done their jobs, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, but “Bin Laden determined to strike in US” was an historical document, and the NSA were only covering their asses.
I fucking hate these people with a passion that most of you would find frightening.
Villago Delenda Est
@morzer:
Ronald Reagan did liberate Buchenwald, Auschwitz, and Dachau, and drove home to his home in Hollywood the same evening.
Daddy-O
@morzer: ha ha
That was right after Ronnie came down from the mountain with the Ten Commandments…oh, wait, that was Charlton Heston.
He had a .22 rifle hidden in that big stick he carried around…
Daddy-O
@soonergrunt: I remember 8-06-01, myself…guess I’m just good with numbers and dates.
morzer
@Daddy-O:
Yes, in an hundred years, I suspect 9/11 will indeed be largely forgotten. Not many young people now remember VJ Day or VE Day. Not many could tell you when Vietnam happened. Many would have trouble explaining who the Founding Fathers were beyond a handful of names. You may remember a good deal of history, but there are many people who neither do, nor see much reason to care about old bones and bygone days. Look at how the Republicans routinely peddle lies about the Founding Fathers and the Constitution.
Violet
@Daddy-O:
You’re kidding right? These aren’t “scandals.” They’re ridiculous ginned up fake controversy. Stephen Colbert did a whole segment on the idiocy of it. He posted on the Daily Kos and then blamed Markos for his post. And that was at least two years ago.
So what if blog owners have been excoriated by conservatives for things people say in their blog comments. So freaking what? Are you seriously telling me that you’ll edit what you say because some conservative might get their knickers in a twist about it? Holy crap. Are you that scared of what they think?
There’s also a difference between reading a comment correctly and misinterpreting it. No one here had advocated what you are suggesting. I’m starting to think you are repeating the whole mantra so it shoots up google or something.
You are right; they are bullshit. Why care what conservatives think about comments in a blog post thread? Like I said upthread, they make shit up to support whatever their issue is at the moment. Witness the Ground Zero Mosque, which isn’t at Ground Zero and isn’t a mosque. But that didn’t stop them. If they want to accuse the left of hating 9-11 or something, they don’t need the comments section of a blog to do it. And if they happen to stumble across this thread, the only person who seems to be mentioning forgetting the whole thing is you.
Joel
@soonergrunt: My thoughts exactly.
“Wingnut christmas” should be one of the tags here.
MattR
@Daddy-O: The actual battles of Gettysburg were July 1-3, 1863.
And in case anyone is interested, the Gettysburg Address was given November 19 of that year.
Daddy-O
@morzer: No, no, no. I’m not afraid of wingers…I guess I’m not making myself understood.
My original assumption that you were a troll was my own fantasy, and mistake. Are you even aware of the comments scandals I referred to earlier? They happened. They will happen again. Of course, it’s jackals making a mountain out of a molehill. Of course, I respect your right to have any opinion you have, including the attitude that you can’t wait until 9-11 fades from memory. That wasn’t my later point.
What I said is true. Some RedState stalker hanging out here could take your comment and make a scandal out of it, if they were so inclined, out of context, etc. It’s just a possibility.
I didn’t come here to make an enemy. Please excuse me if I’ve offended you, but what I’m saying is true. It MIGHT happen. But that doesn’t mean you should ‘watch what you say’. And it only makes them look like the monkeys that they are.
MikeBoyScout
A reading from the Holy National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States according to Tenet.
8.1 THE SUMMER OF THREAT
As 2001 began, counterterrorism officials were receiving frequent but fragmentary reports about threats. Indeed, there appeared to be possible threats almost everywhere the United States had interests-including at home.
…
The Drumbeat Begins
In the spring of 2001, the level of reporting on terrorist threats and planned attacks increased dramatically to its highest level since the millennium alert. At the end of March, the intelligence community disseminated a terrorist threat advisory, indicating a heightened threat of Sunni extremist terrorist attacks against U.S. facilities, personnel, and other interests.
…
Tenet told us that in his world “the system was blinking red.” By late July, Tenet said, it could not “get any worse.
The Gospel of National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
eemom
actually the closest parallel to 9/11 is the Oklahoma City bombing, and I believe that date is given some official recognition, at least in that city.
I assume no one is suggesting there is something wrong about similar solemn remembrances of 9/11. That is just plain decency to the victims and their family members. This did in fact happen not so long ago, and the tragedy is very much alive for those people.
Daddy-O
@MattR: Thanks for the correction. I appreciate it. And I’m not even sure what the point is any more, so there’s hope for the entire country forgetting all about 9-11…
;-)
morzer
@Daddy-O:
Cheer up, Daddy-O. From this day on, I declare that September 10th shall be commemorated as Daddy-O day. I can’t swear we shall all remember it religiously, so you better go and do something heroic and memorable.
Sly
There are two kinds of holidays: federal holidays and federal observances. The main distinction between the two is that government employees get the day off on federal holidays (or holiday pay if they are essential) but don’t on observances. D-Day is a federal observance. 9/11 (or Patriot Day) was made a federal observance on Dec. 18th, 2001.
We don’t actually have national holidays, where everyone gets the day off or gets added pay, because Congress doesn’t have the power to create them. It can only designate holidays for federal employees. It’s not actually federal law that everyone gets Memorial Day or Labor Day off, it’s just that every state has made them holidays. Thats why South Carolina didn’t recognize MLK Day until 2000.
MikeJ
@Sly: Isn’t Patriot Day only celebrated in Mass, the most patriotic of all the states in real America, celebrating when we shot at the English?
Daddy-O
@eemom: There are so many occurrences on and around April 20 because it’s Hitler’s birthday, it’s hard for me to NOT remember that date.
It’s a damn shame 4/20 just had to be Hitler’s birthday. THIS 4/20, that is…
;-)
morzer
@MikeJ:
No, silly. It’s the day when Tom Brady was born and Three Wise NFL Commissioners brought him gifts as a star shone.
Daddy-O
@Sly: I love it when I get reality-based information! I know you were responding to someone else, but thanks, Sly.
Daddy-O
@morzer: How about I quaff a cold one? If not memorable, at least pleasurable. And it’s the only thing I’m up for at this point.
Thank you for the honor! I respect your mocking. I’m sure YOU’LL never forget this day!
;-)
Violet
@Daddy-O:
I disagree. I bet most people couldn’t tell you in which season of the year Gettysburg took place, let alone month and date. You’d be lucky if more than half know is has anything to do with the Civil War and even luckier if they know that Lincoln gave a famous speech about it.
I disagree. I think younger Americans barely know what it is, let alone in what month it took place. Americans suck at history. Most Americans can’t even place the Civil War in the right half of the century in which it took place. You really think they know what Pearl Harbor is? Besides a Jerry Bruckheimer film?
I don’t think the country will completely forget it, no. But it will fade in significance. Years ago both Washington’s and Lincoln’s birthdays were celebrated. Now it’s “President’s Day.” Both V-E and V-J Day were celebrated in the past. Now it’s “Veterans Day.” Things change. People move on. If we have another civil war or are attacked by China or a rogue country manages to set off a nuclear dirty bomb here, 9-11 will seem less significant than it does now.
MattR
@Daddy-O:
link
morzer
@Daddy-O:
Hmmm Daddy-O’s Cold One Day. It might be a tad hard to arrange a full-blown ceremony. On the other hand, people round here do like to remember Sam Adams as a Brewer and Patriot, and in that order.
Violet
@Joel:
Agreed.
jl
“On the other hand, people round here do like to remember Sam Adams as a Brewer and Patriot, and in that order.”
Sam Adams played football? Whaa?
It was more like rugby back then, right?
Daddy-O
@Violet: O-o-o-kay, Violet, I give! Uncle! Now will you please let me get up? You’re crushing my face.
;-)
It COULD happen. There’s nothing we can do about it. And if it did happen, it might happen if, let’s imagine, morzer is a concern troll looking for someone to agree with him that we should forget 9-11. That’s all I meant. I was defending myself by explaining my thought processes in detail. I’m new here; I don’t know 90% of the names. I was wrong, and I already groveled.
You are right about this: There’s no reason to edit oneself in a comment. But making ones’ self perfectly clear is difficult on the Internets Tubes.
morzer
@Daddy-O:
Bad, naughty, wicked Zoot!
Mnemosyne
Of the people arguing that the date of 9/11 will be forgotten as surely as the dates of Pearl Harbor and Gettysburg have been forgotten … uh, have you noticed that the date is right in the name of the event?
Pearl Harbor was never known as “12/7.” Gettysburg was never known as “7/1.” But this big event has never been known by any name other than the date it happened.
It’s far more likely that people will forget exactly what happened on 9/11 but will remember the name “9/11” for at least several decades to come.
Violet
@Daddy-O:
Making oneself clear is a big challenge on the intertubes, you are right about that.
When a wingnut troll shows up here trying to start something, they usually get a smackdown. It’s happened before and it’ll happen again, I’m sure.
Sly
@MikeJ:
I think that one is called Patriots’ Day.
The 9/11 observance was originally called “Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of the Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001,” but that’s kind of hard to fit on a stamp.
Daddy-O
@Violet: Observed. They were observed, not celebrated. As my wife might say at this point: We’re arguing about arguing, aren’t we?
I never said most Americans remembered the exact dates and such. But Pearl Harbor is a lot closer to young people than the Civil War.
And this isn’t about young people; it’s about ALL of us, old included. As Americans age, the sane and intelligent ones DO learn more about history. Why? They experience more of it in their own lifetimes! And, most Americans end up learning a lot more about history later in life. That’s why biographies of Presidents are usually pretty popular–Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, Washington and Adams, FDR and even Eleanor have had best-sellers written about them in the last fifteen years or so.
I sure as hell hope I’m coming across as a nice guy, because I’m trying as hard as I can.
Violet
@Mnemosyne:
They’ll remember 9/11, but will they remember 2001?
Mnemosyne
Also, too, people may not remember the exact dates of Pearl Harbor or Gettysburg, but they remember the event because there’s a national park at the site of each of them.
Cynicor
This is the year in which the GOP has decided to whip up so much anti-Muslim sentiment and caused so many protests, book burnings, and mosque descrations that they’ve turned what should be a solemn anniversary into Kristall-Light.
mclaren
9/11 is a big celebration because it was the day the constitution ended and democracy went away in America.
All the muggers with badges party hearty to celebrate 9/11. They love it. They toast the hijackers and hope for another attack. The DEA, the CIA, the DIA, the TSA, the NSA, the FBI, the DHS, every one of these gutless rule-crazed power-mad punks raise their glasses and give thanks to Bin Laden and his crew for giving every moustached mirror-sunglassed taser-toting shiny-boot-wearing coward with a badge the right to sadistically beat and tase and choke and pepper-spray and shoot any American at any time and get away scot free by uttering the word “terrorism.”
The smell of burning corpses from the Twin Towers is sweet sweet perfume to the far-right totalitarians who now rule America. And they do rule. The DHS and CIA and NSA are the real power in the U.S. of A.: presidents come and go, but the totalitarians are forever.
Zuzu's Petals
Well for those so inclined, there’s this:
National Day of Service
It came out of the efforts of at least one 9/11 family, even if it eventually became “official.”
MattR
@Mnemosyne: I was using the fact that most people don’t know the date (or can even come close) of the Battle of Gettsyburg is proof that the event is not remembered as a major event in American history. Obviously, people will always know the date that the 9/11 attacks occurred on, but how much else will people remember 25 years from now? Will they stop for a moment of silence at the times of each of the four crashes? Probably not even for the first one.
(EDIT: Can everyone name the location in Pennsylvania where Flight 93 went down?)
Mnemosyne
@Violet:
Probably not, but that’s kind of the point: you don’t have to have an exact date to commemorate an event. Otherwise, those two national parks should have vanished into the ether, right?
As I said, datewise 9/11 is a special case because I can’t think of any other significant event in American history that has been named after the date that it happened.
eemom
So……who wants to talk about what they were doing on 9/11?
fasteddie9318
@MattR:
Vicksburg fell on July 4. Amazing to think that four days changed the entire course of that war.
Daddy-O
@Mnemosyne: Exactly. And 9-11 just also happens to be a synonym for ‘dire emergency’.
bin Laden was no fool, fuck that he was/is.
Mnemosyne
@MattR:
Of course it’s remembered as a major event — even the least-educated American has probably at least heard the name “Gettysburg.” You didn’t have a bunch of people on here going, “Gettsyburg, what’s that?”
It’s not memorialized as a major event, though. I would argue that very few things are. The Fourth of July, maybe, but even that didn’t happen on 7/4.
I think people who have vivid memories of the event will remember it for a very long time, the same way that people older than me will always flash back to Pearl Harbor on 12/7 or the Kennedy assassination on 11/22. But I don’t think it will become a permanently memorialized event.
stuckinred
I haven’t been able to connect to BJ for 2 days. I’ve tried every kind of cache and flush stuff and nothing. I just hit a neighbors wireless and it worked. Suggestions?
mofo
On 9/11:
I always recall the American orchestrated coup in Chile, overthrowing a democratically elected government, and leading to the death or disappearance of thousands.
I always recall the Attica inmates negotiating with NY State as their massacre was being prepared.
I also always recall the terrible attack on the WTC.
My DFH mind just works like that.
Violet
@Daddy-O:
I think the point is that as time marches on, what was a really big deal becomes less so and people remember it less and less. 9/11/2001 is still so recent that it’s a big deal and people remember where they were, how it felt, etc. Pearl Harbor is far enough away that the majority of people living now were not alive when it happened. That makes it less real and something you study only in books.
Although @Mnemosyne has a good point that both Gettysburg and Pearl Harbor are national parks, so they’re the kind of places you might get dragged to on a family trip and when that happens, it becomes a lot more real.
I think the issue is more about how 9/11 is remembered than whether or not is is remembered. Turning it into wingnut Christmas is offensive. But it’s still very close and raw for many people, so not observing it is equally offensive. There’s a balance and as far as I can tell, the Teabeckistan version of remembering it is a lot more about trying to capitalize on it for political (and grifting) purposes than actually honoring those who lost their lives.
MattR
@eemom: Oversleeping. My mom called me and said something about not trying to drive into Manhattan because a couple planes crashed into the WTC. I thought she meant a couple prop planes hit each other and glanced of the building so I raced to get ready for work. I did not realize exactly what was going on until I turned on the radio in the car on the way to work. (I had moved out of NYC into Northern NJ on Sept 1 because my roommate was getting married and moved out and I finally found a job – but it was in New Jersey)
(EDIT: And while I was getting ready for work, my mind was completely focused on the Broncos victory over the Giants the previous night and the injury that Ed McCaffrey had suffered)
MikeBoyScout
@119 mclaren:
Spot on.
Daddy-O
@MattR: Maybe they don’t remember the battle, but they remember the speech, because most kids learn it in elementary school even today.
And this isn’t about how many people remember or if it’s half of Americans or whatever. It’s about what most intelligent and historically-minded Americans know and remember. I won’t accept the argument based on what YOUNGER Americans remember or know NOW. They will LEARN as they age.
I know I did.
morzer
@stuckinred:
Pay your Internet provider? Check your router? Make sure you are actually getting a signal? Sometimes we have to call Comcast and get them to hit refresh, so to speak.
stuckinred
@morzer: It’s only Balloon Juice??
jl
The official name of 9/11 is Patriot Day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Day
That is slightly different than Patriots day for Lexington and Concord
The official name of Dec 7 is National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.
And end of the Korean War was the National Korean War Veterans Armistice Day on July 27 each year, then something happened to it, but I don’t know what because the wikipedia article on it was deleted, and a search doesn’t bring up an obvious review article, but it is still around: Obama proclaimed one this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_observances
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-proclamation-national-korean-war-veterans-armistice-day
But I think Mnemosyne is right, anyone who remembers them will think of them as 9/11 and Dec 7.
I hope 9/11 is always kept as a day of national remembrance, or mourning, or prayer and fasting, as long as the country lasts, in memory of the importance of electing responsible and competent people to high office (and the danger in not doing so), as well as in memory of the many innocent people who died.
But as ‘Patriot Day’, that seems inappropriate to me. As does all the irresponsible stuff being done this years, which as I said I think is mostly a campaign year stunt promoted by an irresponsible political faction, and shameful one.
Violet
Okay, the site is totally fucked for me. I’m out for the night unless someone can fix it.
FWIW, I think it’s mofo’s post @ 128 that did it. There’s an unattached hyphen.
Daddy-O
@mclaren:
Nation of sheep
Ruled by wolves
Owned by pigs
–button on my raggedy straw hat
stuckinred
I dropped acid for the 1st time in Seattle, got on the bus with my buddies back to Ft Lewis. We got back and were trippin like mad and the barracks were lights out so we went in the laundry room with a radio. Bobby was killed in LA that night, I’ll never forget that.
MikeBoyScout
9-11, the birthday of our Project for a New American Century.
“Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor.”
Sing Along with Neil & the vocoder … Transformer Man.
Daddy-O
@stuckinred: If you haven’t already, try unplugging the router and/or wireless transmitter for 30 seconds. Might work.
MattR
@Daddy-O: They know the event happened, but they don’t commemorate the date. I expect the same to happen with 9/11. Obviously the date will be remembered and will make it more likely that it will pop into people’s heads, but in 25 years I don’t think there will be major ceremonies covered by all the networks like we will have tomorrow.
DougJ
@stuckinred:
Your IP is in the firewall. My work IP is too. It’s why I only post at night now.
morzer
@stuckinred:
Have you tried using a different browser? Some sites work well with one browser, not another.
Joel
@eemom: I was in Sweden. Watching from afar was a surreal experience. The international phone lines were tied up for hours.
Church Lady
was flipping through the channels and ran across a special on 9/11. Watching the film clips and listening to people recount the horror of that day bought it all back to me. I was so scared, watching it happen on TV, because my little brother’s studio was downtown and his subway stop was at the WTC. My Mom, my sister and I were all frantically trying to reach him, to make sure he was ok. He wasn’t answering his phone, so all of us were freaking out. It turned out that he had the day off, and was on a golf course in New Jersey. When I finally heard from him, I just started sobbing, I was so relieved that he was ok.
I turned off the TV, because I was starting to cry, remembering. I thought I’d go online and do a little reading, and started off here. Big mistake.
Doug, sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t. But this time, I really, really think you are a fucking asshole.
mclaren
@DougJ:
Oh, Dougj, Dougj, Dougj…have you not heard of anonymous proxy servers?
A VPN to an anonymous proxy server — my kingdom for a VPN!
Yutsano
@eemom: Asleep. My roommate screamed up the stairs crying that the world was going to hell in a handbasket, then went to campus to commiserate with friends. I listened to the radio and didn’t even bother with attending class that day. Hard to see how you can go to an Islamic history course on a day like that. Needless to say it was canceled all week and we talked about nothing else for the next two.
MattR
@Joel: That is actually how I felt watching it from Jersey. There was nothing that I could have done, but I still felt like I should have been there for my friends who still lived and worked in Manhattan.
celticdragonchick
@morzer:
Here in the South, I can say with some assuredness that nothing about the “War of Northern Aggression” has been forgotten.
Read Confederates In The Attic some time.
bago
Knock knock.
Who’s there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
*gasp* Am I thought you’d never forget.
Mike in NC
@Church Lady:
And as always CL, you’re a sniveling piece of shit. Go figure.
morzer
@celticdragonchick:
Politely rolls eyes in your general direction.
DougJ
@Church Lady:
I’m sorry to have denied you the natural inclination to rock out to Lee Greenwood and relive the excitement.
bago
And. Not am. Stupid bus.
celticdragonchick
@MattR:
So there are no such things as major events in US history since many people are historically illiterate? I don’t reallty think you mean to imply that, but it kinda come out that way. Gettysburg actuakky is a pretty freaking major event, and most people have heard of it, even if they cannot pin down the date.
With two wars attached to it, and the “War on terror” likely to go on for the rest of our lives…I’d say it isn’t goingto be forgotten any time soon.
I agree with you there.
Shanksville. Remembered it in 5 seconds and looked it up to confirm. I was right.
celticdragonchick
@morzer:
Why the eye roll? It (the Civil War obsession here in the South) has me mystified. I was born in California. I do Revolutionary War re-enacting, and we leave the “Silly War” people to their own devices. They take it waaaay too seriously.
morzer
@celticdragonchick:
Well, it’s hard not to roll eyebrows at the Southern syndrome you describe. I was polite out of good nature and respect for you as a fellow-goddamn librul.
Violet
@celticdragonchick:
My experience is different from yours.
MattR
@celticdragonchick:
I agree. I meant remember like commemorate but I was very imprecise.
The flipside of this is that while people might know that the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand started World War I, they don’t remember the details of why he was killed.
Violet
@celticdragonchick:
A very high percentage of southerners don’t participate in any war reenactments, Civil War or otherwise. A lot of them just aren’t that interested in the Civil War at all. Anyone who goes to the trouble of participating in a war reenactment is obviously rather interested in that particular war. They would be a significant subset of the general population.
Mnemosyne
Random thought: anyone who thinks that our reaction to 9/11 was uniquely irrational needs to read Strawberry Days or one of the other many fine books about the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII.
We may have mostly repressed the memory of that racist freakout as a society, but it sure as fuck was there at the time, and pretty nakedly, too. At least in 2001 we primarily focused our rage and hate on people living outside of our borders instead of our own citizens.
Violet
@MattR:
I do! World War I has always been a subject of fascination for me. But the larger population probably doesn’t know much about it.
scav
@Mnemosyne: whereas now we’ve moved to stage #2, only more as a staged media-politico event.
“Demonize your neighbors and fellow citizens for fun and profit!”
Cliff
@El Cid:
How ’bout this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4jQw9lLzs
Jackie
With sincere respect to those of you whose lives were directly touched by this because of where you live and people you know who were involved either in New York or Washington or Pennsylvania. But I live in Chicago and nobody I love was involved. It was a horrible day and a terrible and crazy thing. I am sorry for the senseless loss and sorry that my country lost it’s shit. Being afraid right after is perfectly understandable but I’m not traumatized 9 years later. If you weren’t directly involved why would you be? The idea that you were frightened by something that long ago and can’t deal with it by now should have triggered a mass run on psychiatric services. Why isn’t everyone across the country still horribly traumatized by Oklahoma City? I truly don’t understand the difference. I can’t put my finger on the right words but it seems like people deliberately whipping themselves up and picking at a wound so that it won’t heal.
auntieeminaz
@soonergrunt: I am SO happy to see you posting! You are such a voice of reason and it is great that you continue to contribute to the discourse.
Mnemosyne
@scav:
The weird part is that stage #2 is coming so long after stage #1. FDR signed the internment order in February 1942, just over two months after the attack. It’s nine freakin’ years later and now people are flipping out?
Gee, I wonder if it could have something to do with the black man in the White House? Nah, that’s crazy talk.
scav
@Mnemosyne: exactly — that and they’ve found out that they need bigger and bigger hits of the crazy and panic to get the same 24/7 media coverage filled.
Zuzu's Petals
@Church Lady:
Why, because he doesn’t understand why a day of sadness should be treated like a money-making festival?
Sorry to hear the day brings such painful memories for you, but you might have noticed several folks here have their own memories of the day. How about dialing the pomposity level down a notch, eh?
celticdragonchick
@morzer:
LOL! :)
celticdragonchick
@Violet:
Well, okay, I guess.
We have different experiences.
Zuzu's Petals
@MattR:
I seem to recall there being a moment of silence at some point on Veterans/Armistace Day, I think to commemorate the time the armistace was signed. Or something along those lines. Years and years ago.
HRA
It’s late in the day and I did not take the time to read all the comments. I will just give my answer to Doug’s question along with a personal story about Pearl Harbor.
Pearl Harbor according to my elderly relatives who lived through the day and beyond into WWII was never treated as is 9/11. It’s not that they were not spurred to patriotism over it. It’s that it was done with the enlistment of one in the US Army Air Force and the work of the other as one of the women working in a factory producing tanks for the war. The celebrating, they vehemently agree, was for the end of the war.
I have a daughter who was born on 12/7. The day came when she learned about it in elementary school during a history lesson. I always asked the children “what did you learn today”. She fairly bristled with the reply – “Why did you have me on such a horrible day.”
El Cid
@Cliff: Oh, you’re right — that was the RNC convention. At the Republican nomination debate in 2008 it was all “Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan…”
Anne Laurie
@celticdragonchick:
__
Or, as the saying goes: “It’s called the Society for Creative Anachronism, not the Society for Compulsive Authenticity!”
Anne Laurie
@Zuzu’s Petals:
__
“At the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour.” No, I was not there personally, but 11/11 is my birthday, which is why I remember Wilson’s quote.
The Spousal Unit’s birthday, incidentally, is 9/11…
Zuzu's Petals
@Anne Laurie:
Ah, thanks for verifying. Glad to know I wasn’t imagining things.
Interesting birth dates. In 2008 my DiL went into labor on 11/10, which turned into 11/11, and finally 11/12 when my granddaughter was born. For awhile I thought I was going to have a Veterans’ Day grandbaby, but she wasn’t quite ready.
Yutsano
@Anne Laurie: Heh. I knew I liked you for some good logical reason. Greetings fellow Scorpio.
asiangrrlMN
I was living in the East Bay. I just woke up to go to the bathroom, and my housemates were talking excitedly with the TV blaring. I thought they were watching a movie, but they weren’t. I was up in time to watch the second tower fall.
I never felt the shock most other people say they felt, and I started to fear for this country once all the rhetoric got going and people started gauging you by whether you wore a flag pin or not. The meaning of the flag changed for me, and in a negative way.
@soonergrunt: I can’t tell you how happy it makes me to see you post.
Zuzu's Petals
@asiangrrlMN:
My clock radio went on at the exact moment GWB was announcing that terrorists had struck the World Trade Center. It was surreal.
I was a state worker with an office across the street from the state Capitol. They sent us all home a couple of hours after I got there.
asiangrrlMN
@Zuzu’s Petals: Holy crap. That has to be a very weird way to be awoken.
OT: I have been practicing your parallel parking tip. I have managed to combine it with my own way (herk and jerk), and I am 60% of the way there. Parallel parking is much less stressful for me than it used to be. So, thanks!
Amir_Khalid
When the news broke on the TV here. I’d just got home from work (Malaysia is 12 time zones away from NYC) and I was waiting for The West Wing to come on. They interrupted the broadcast to show live video: the Twin Towers with smoke pouring from them. I watched the Towers go down. I guess that’s how a lot of us outside the US saw it happen.
Right now, I’m playing Springsteen’s LIve in Barcelona DVD. Into The Fire has this beautiful prayer for the dead of 9/11:
May your strength give us strength
May your faith bring us faith
May your hope bring us hope
May your love bring us love
bjacques
I was having dinner…in BERLIN!
Seriously, I was bored and channel surfing that afternoon, here in Amsterdam. Got CNN and wondered “WTF?” The first thing I thought was that it was a real accident like the B-29 that hit the Empire State Building in 1945, but then the second plane hit. After the shock was the sinking feeling that we were so fucked, having already had to apologize for a stolen election, eight months of noxious wingnut triumphalism and saber-rattling at Saddam Hussein.
So Pammycakes’ trainload of WTF hitting a tank truck of Goddammit appears to feature only one remotely A-list wingnut in the flesh, and he’s a furriner. Dutch wingnut Geert Wilders, leader of his own party, is gonna be in NYC mouthing off and embarrrassing the Dutch, while his fellow travelers back home try to form a government 3 months after national elections.
In June, the popular vote divided neatly among four established parties, two left-wing and two rightwing, plus that of local wingnut Geert Wilders. Since one of the rightwing parties, the VVD, barely got the most votes, they get the right to put together a government. They will NOT work with the pvdA (Labor), which got the next biggest vote, by one parliamentary seat. Instead the VVD want a purely rightwing government with the Christian Democrats and Geert Wilders’ PVV as partners.
The VVD want to privatize everything and bash immigrants. They did plenty of that when they were in government a few years ago. Various Dutch politicians have been tapping into popular resentment and fear of Arabs since about 2001, and have gotten good at it. A half-crazed Dutch Moroccan who killed a filmmaker for insulting the Koran a few years ago also played into the right’s hands.
You know how cool and tolerant and slackful the Netherlands is supposed to be? That reputation took a big hit in the last years, and you can kiss all of it goodbye if the VVD and PVV get the government they want. Happily, it’s all still up in the air. Wilders is so offensive that a few CDA’ers won’t play along, so no majority. Yet.
The saga continues, while Wilders taunts the CDA for not getting their act together (kinda true, but for good reason) and traipses off to America too waltz with Pammycakes. The CDA leaders put up with it because they want to stay in power so badly they can barely contain their drooling. The VVD leaders are smugly sure of getting in.
The Dutch government went along with Bush on Afghanistan and Iraq. A VVD-PVV-CDA coalition would be equally likely to join in whatever a Republican congress or *shudder* President got up to.
So 9/11 sucks here too.
Carol
@Violet: Another factor that might alter the trajectory of rememberance is the existence of tv imagery. Except for those who were there, few people saw Gettysburg or Pearl Harbor. They heard about those events as when they were over via telegraph, photo. But millions of Americans just watching the morning news saw it live as it happened, so I suspect that the memories will be more indeliable.
But even here, time marches on-people have other things to do and other things to mourn. Once the memorial is built, the tenth anniversary passed, and the survivors start to die off, things will begin to inevitably fade away.
El Cid
For some people, they feel like they need a community remembrance. Even more so perhaps many of the most direct victims. Me, I prefer thinking about it and trying to comprehend the event at the times which seem more natural and related to other events or thoughts. In other words, not necessarily this date.
Katherine Hunter
linda :
the daffodils arent in a patch / they are distributed around the property and they naturalize so they have multiplied and continue to be a memorial / no doubt about it / smile
batgirl
@Church Lady: My sister worked across the street from the WTC and her subway stop was in the WTC. Like every morning I woke up and turned on the radio. The first plane had just hit. I couldn’t register what they were saying so I got out of bed and went to turn on the TV. I picked up the phone to call my sister. I got her secretary who told me she had talked to her and that she was actually walking to work that morning when the first plane hit. She saw it hit and called into the office and they told her not to come in.
I finally reached her at home where we both watched the second plane hit and the towers come down. I didn’t get off the phone with her all morning. She was freaking out. We called my parents in Vegas and woke them up to let them know she was okay.
Then we learned our other sister was up in the air in a plane on her way from NYC to Detroit.
It was a hellish morning for my family as well but unlike the families of those who died, we were lucky and both my sisters were safe. And I find this spectacle around 9/11 disgusting.
Yes it should be remembered, best IMHO with a moment of silence across the US where everyone stops what they are doing (possibly with sirens).
Church Lady, I almost never agree with you and on this I really, really think you are a fucking asshole. DougJ isn’t trying to make light of 9/11 but of the truly American fucked-up way we seem to “celebrate” it.
Zuzu's Petals
@asiangrrlMN:
It was surreal. Talk about being jolted 100% awake.
Re parallel parking: yay, every little bit helps!
Admiral_Komack
@eemom:
Working, and trying to comfort my sister (via telephone) who was watching the reporting on television at home.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Way late to this thread but
It still is. Here on the left coast the news stations remember it every year and often do feature stories on the survivors and their ceremonies. Possibly it’s that more survivors live on the left coast, possibly it’s that east coasters don’t consider anything that happened west of the Mississippi as having had any historical significance, but it is definitely remembered even all these decades later.
ThresherK
Wingnut Christmas? How about Wingnut Brigadoon: The one day each year that the mythical New York City rises up out of the mist into RealAmerica™’s consciousness?