First Read on the tax issue:
For the White House, the upside of this tax battle is that it elevates Boehner, and they hope it also draws more attention to the tough New York Times front-page story on the man who might be speaker. (“He maintains especially tight ties with a circle of lobbyists and former aides representing some of the nation’s biggest businesses, including Goldman Sachs, Google, Citigroup, R. J. Reynolds, MillerCoors and UPS,” the paper wrote yesterday.) But the spat also has a potential downside for Team Obama, in that it makes Boehner look like he’s the one who is compromising.
The only way Boehner and the Republicans could be cast as compromising while the White House is rigid and uncompromising would be if we lived in a country where the media had completely fallen down on the job and failed to accurately point out that the Republicans have opposed everything the Democrats and the WH have proposed for two years and then voted “No” on a straight party ticket for 99% of the votes.
In other words, it is probably inevitable that Boehner will come out looking like the one who is compromising.
meh
of course they will – now that they have the house back, and have to, you know, govern, they will all of a sudden be incredibly amenable to “middle of road, commonsense bills that we can all get behind.” Then 2 years down the road they will say, “Look what a great job we did governing…bringing the President around to our point of view – see how WE compromised? Just imagine how much more compromising there will be if you give us a GOP president, you betcha”
Plus Boehner is tall, and tan, and white, and not shrill like the Dems – he comes out looking like the good guy in all this.
Omnes Omnibus
@meh: They don’t have the House back. Let’s not buy into that inevitability BS.
meh
@Omnes Omnibus:
mhmm – hope for the best but plan for the worst.
NonyNony
If the Republican Party were full of sane people then yes, this would be a “win” for the GOP.
Of course, where that the case, then finding compromises in the last two years would ALSO have been a win for the GOP. And yet at every single turn the GOP leadership have refused to find compromise. Almost as if they DON’T in fact think that being perceived as compromising with Obama is a good thing.
Being perceived as compromising with Obama is a way to shrink the “enthusiasm gap”. Making the base less enthused about turning up at the polls to vote for the GOP is a good thing for Democrats, no matter how the morans in the DC Press Corpse want to spin things.
ETA: In fact, thinking about it I can’t think of a better win for the Democrats than if the press corpse spins the narrative that Boehner is compromising with the Democrats. Enough play in the press and he’ll have to walk it back, which makes things even better for the Dems.
This is full-on win for the Dems any way it gets sliced. Stupid press corpse.
BTD
I understand your point – but to be seen as “the compromiser” is not the be all and end all you think.
IF Obama’s middle class tax cut is enacted, Obama will be the winner – the strong leader.
Boehner will be the loser.
This does not hurt Obama or the Dems at all – except with David Broder I suppose.
cmorenc
How many times over the past year and a half has a key GOP legislator pulled the scenario of:
1) publicly announcing their willingness to support an Obama-Administration proposal, pending details;
2) hemmed and hawed about coming through while the “details” are being purportedly negotiated;
3) in the end, withdrawing/withholding their support and voting with the GOP anti-Obama-anything block.
You betcha this will wind up just one more Lucy and the football shtick.
BTD
@NonyNony:
Good point on the shrinking of GOP enthusiasm.
Ash Can
Because whenever the legislative Dems acquiesced to what the Bush WH wanted, it made Team Bush look SO bad, don’tcha know.
Seriously, whichever of those morons wrote this can go eat shit and bark at the moon.
Bob L
In Wingnut land compromise means Beohner is a surrender monkey and has Dijon Mustered on his FREEDOM burgers. Remember all the GOP congress critters primared for voting for TARP because they foolishly didn’t want the economy to implode?
You know, the ultimate irony in the media narrative is since they have proclaimed GOP control of congress a forgone thing in November that most of the teatards may have become convinced Beohner is Speaker of the House right now and become disillusioned with his lack of success in pushing the Right’s agenda. If Wingnuts can think Obama’s policies caused a recession started a year before he was even nominated stranger things have happened.
Zifnab
I’m more curious how the actual tax debate will pan out. I don’t see a lot of good reasons for the Republicans to vote for a Middle Class Tax Extension Bill. At least, not before Nov 2nd. They can shoot down Obama’s Bill and run all the live-long day screaming, “Obama is going to raise your taxes! He lied about the $250k thing! Tax and Spend! Tax and Spend!”
I don’t know how well it will work, but it definitely seems right out of the GOP play book. Unless the Democrats hand over a major concession or three, there’s no reason for the Republicans to vote with Democrats on tax cuts.
joe from Lowell
Don’t be such an Eyeore. How did the narrative over the financial regulation bill work out? How about Joe Burton’s apology to BP?
When the White House and the Congressional Dems get behind a push to call out the Republicans, it generally works.
BTD
@joe from Lowell:
I agree.
Steve
No one cares about the meta. No one is going to vote for the GOP because “that John Boehner seems so reasonable, he’s a compromiser!” If Obama fights to get something for the middle class and gets it, Democrats take the credit. No one except maybe a Beltway pundit is going to give the credit to the GOP on the grounds of “they didn’t block it from happening after all.”
Southern Beale
Remember kids: it’s ALWAYS good news for Republicans! Always!!
I’ve gotten to the point now where I just turn it all off. Hubs had TV on MSNBC this morning and it was Chuck Toad and Savannah Whatserface. The graphic said “DEMS DOOMED.” Jesus fucking Christ.
It would be lovely for the Democrats to score big victories in November just so we can hear the media moan “how did we get it so wrong?” But you know what? It will just be reported as more good news for Republicans, like it always is.
Remember how Obama winning the Nobel Prize was good news for Republicans?
Zifnab
@Bob L:
Wingnuts think Obama caused the recession and 9/11 happened under Clinton. They think the Iraq War was working out great until Pelosi took office in ’06. And they think tax cuts reduce the deficit.
There are many stupid things that Wingnuts believe. But they only believe them because they get told by their wingnut media feeders. Unless you can convince Rush, Hannity, and Beck to start hating on Boehner, the wingnuts will believe the sun rises in the west and sets in the east before they swallow the idea that Boehner is responsible for anything.
Martin
As a point of optimism, I’m seeing more and more references to ‘Obama Tax Cut’. It’s a fair criticism of the Dems that they keep referring to ‘extend the Bush tax cuts’ rather than just calling them the ‘Obama tax cuts’, but that’s starting to change, if very slowly. That the DNC doesn’t have ‘Support the Obama Tax Cuts’ plastered across their front page speaks volumes.
I can’t really fault the media too much for using the terminology that both the Dems and GOP use.
Darius
@BTD: Agreed. No matter how much the media may try to dress it up for the Republicans, the underlying narrative will be “Obama got what he wanted, Republicans caved”.
b-psycho
Anyone else think it’d be funny as hell if after all the assumption that Boehner would be Speaker after the elections, he instead turned off enough teabaggers in his own district to lose?
dmsilev
Of course, the GOP Senate still wants to give money to millionaires:
I think Democrats should call the bluff. Bring up a tax bill which includes continuation of the Bush-era rate cuts in the lower brackets, but lets the top rate bracket (the over $250K) revert to Clinton-era values. Let the GOP filibuster it. Hell, have cloture votes on it once a week for the next seven weeks.
dms
Nom de Plume
@joe from Lowell: Don’t be such an Eyeore.
I originally read that as “Eyesore”.
But I agree with your conclusion. What makes me very nervous about this whole thing is that it is common-sensical (i.e., a “no-brainer”) for the Dems to continue on their present course. The polls are all behind it, it is a winning election issue, and most of all, it’s the right thing to do.
As I said, that’s what makes me nervous about Dems holding the line on this.
chopper
sounds like someone hasn’t been paying any attention. since when does a gooper looking like he’s ‘compromising’ with obama go over well with the GOP base?
i’m amazed at the media’s (and others’) insane penchant for making every single thing ‘trouble for obama’.
ChrisS
The GOP hasn’t done shit to this point, except piss and moan about how the Democrats can’t fix the mess George Bush and the republicans created.
The GOP’s election slogan is always, “The Federal Government is Mismanaged, Corrupt, and Overbearing, So Elect Us and We’ll Prove it!”
NonyNony
@b-psycho:
It would be fairly awesome if Boehner were to get kicked out of his seat. Normally, given the district he’s in, I wouldn’t give it a shot in hell of them electing a Democrat. But it sure as hell would be hilarious, and given that this is one of the weirdest fucking election cycles I’ve ever witnessed I’m not willing to say “never gonna happen”.
martha
@dmsilev: I also think, that solely from a visual perspective, the more that Mitch McConnell’s pasty white old doughy mug is plastered on our teevee screens, the better for the Dem’s cause. (I can, and do, always turn away or turn it off…) Not to get all critical of a person’s looks or anything, but just sayin’…
Mark S.
@dmsilev:
That’s what I would do. Make McConnell explain why he’s opposed to tax cuts for 98% of the country.
Chris
See, in media-land, when Republicans compromise, it makes them look magnanimous and bipartisan, while when Democrats compromise, it makes them look like unpopular losing wusses.
Nom de Plume
@Zifnab: Wingnuts think Obama caused the recession and 9/11 happened under Clinton.
I think their actual orthodoxy on 9/11 is that “there were no terrorist attacks under President Bush”. Of course, that’s an implied condemnation of Clinton, but then again, so is everything. Unless it was Carter’s fault.
cleek
the GOP base is probably already as motivated and happy as it’s going to get. but the primaries are over. now they need to work on the rest of their constituencies.
jl
Why does Cole read meta narratives written by what could be five year olds playing political version of army man in the backyard? It upsets him so, and puts him into bad moods.
If the administration holds that cheap two bit hood Johnny Bones to his word, and makes a good honest case for voting to get rid of the Bush II tax cuts for the rich, no one will care who the silly media claim is doing the best Kabuki political theatre performance.
I think the voters will care about whoever is sincerely advocating and getting good policies enacted.
Bones can vote for it, and be seen following the sensible lead of the administration, or vote against it and be revealed insincere hypocrite and inept operator.
For some reason ‘gracious’ and ‘chivalrous’ ol’ Schieffer decided to go rather mildly after Boehner, and Boehner looked pretty bad at times (unless hypocrisy and fumbling improvisation at trying to pretend to make sense makes a person look good).
I hope some makes a clip of Johnny Bones trying to explain his tobacco money connections for the election.
Violet
When compromising=giving in/betraying core principles, then a Republican being seen as the one who is compromising isn’t a bad thing. That’s how the wingnuts have been defining compromise for the last few years “(I’m proud to be the Party of No!”). Reap what you sow, etc.
joe from Lowell
@Nom de Plume:
Hey, now! I’m not calling our beloved host ugly; just pessimistic.
ricky
Compromise? Jokeline was just on CNN. He reports he met with a group of Swampland readers. Seven or eight first responders from suburban Michigan. (This stretches his credibility back to its ususal elastic point).
Jokeline reports they are mad at Obama for bailing out people on their mortgages. They are mad at people walking away from bad mortgages. They have mortgages higher than the value of their houses.
These are government employees with jobs obstensibly because of the Obama bailout of state and local governments.
Danton
Boehner’s party is the minority party. It’s out of power. He’s supposed to compromise.
Sheesh… contemporary traditional journalism is ridiculous.
goblue72
I utterly fail to see how this isn’t a slam-dunk win for the Democrats. Let the GOP run on tax cuts for the rich.
Of course, I therefore fully expect the Democrats to cave and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Midnight Marauder
@cleek:
Bigots? Assholes? Propagandists?
ricky
Hasn’t anybody noticed that Boehner is already heading for the exit on his great compromise. He misspoke hissef as they say in my parts.
Omnes Omnibus
@Midnight Marauder: No, I think it is rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.
Zifnab
@dmsilev:
I can’t imagine a better use of the Senate’s time. Consider it a prelude to 2011. Of course, this assumes the Senate is composed of people with spines, which it is not.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Southern Beale:
Our contemporary political press are liars without a trace of shame or remorse. We have always been at war with Obamasia. I speculate that there is a sort of political law of conservation of mendacity, such that on a global per-capita basis the amount of lying in the world is more or less constant. Since the USSR imploded and Pravda/TASS/etc went out of business, the Russian have been slacking off. So naturally our press have taken up where they left off. Plus ca change…
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@ChrisS:
I have a more colorful version:
“Electing Republicans to run the govt. is like hiring angry Vegans to run a steakhouse. The inevitable result is burnt meat, hungry customers, and money missing from the cash register.”
chris
@Omnes Omnibus: UDA MAN! or WOman…
Midnight Marauder
@Omnes Omnibus:
And we certainly can’t forget about tricks, marks, mark-ass tricks, trick-ass marks, skeezers, skanks, skig-scags, and scallywhops.
Omnes Omnibus
@chris: Man. Not that there’s anything wrong with it.
steviez314
You have to admit…
This is EXCELLENT NEWS FOR JOHN McCAIN.
Omnes Omnibus
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: And tears. There have to be tears.
meh
@Omnes Omnibus:
You forgot the PUMA’s and firebaggers
Omnes Omnibus
@meh: I mentioned nitwits, halfwits, and dimwits.
MaximusNYC
Personally — and much to my surprise — I think the WH is playing this issue just about pitch-perfectly. Here’s Gibbs’ latest repetition of their very well-honed line:
http://twitter.com/PressSec/status/24123585244
This is exactly how I would have told them to say it. They’ve found something that resonates with the public and puts the GOP between a rock and a hard place.
Ignore the media gasbaggery about how this could be a “win” for Boehner and the GOP. That Politico BS doesn’t really matter outside DC. The public solidly backs Obama on this (as Gibbs’ link above, to Gallup, demonstrates).
Allison W.
stop conceding the game before it starts. Every time, every thing is a win for the GOP. enough already.
Bob L
@Zifnab: Remeber how Rush hated on the Republican congress in the ’90s, called them the Republicrats or something like it and screamed every time Newt compromised with Clinton. Rush & company are conservative purity trolls. They have to have their purity to keep their ratings.
If the kumbayas start up just watch Rush & co start having a hissy.
SIA
Has anyone mentioned this? MSNBC and little Luke Russert are running a big fluff piece on Boehner and his modest upbringing. WTF. We can haz our own network pleeze?
danimal
It looks like some progress has been made on the 2011 Bush tax hike/Obama tax cut issue, but I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m guessing that Boehner cut a deal with McConnell that the Senate would kill the Obama tax cuts so that vulnerable GOP House candidates could take a popular position on taxes if they have a need to blow smoke in voter faces.
If the Senate holds the line, every Republican in the House could vote for the Obama tax cuts without any danger of them becoming law.
debbie
Watching a few talking-head shows last Friday and Saturday, it seemed like conservatives were making Boehner their newest talking point. With almost identical words, the conservative pundits pointed to Obama’s abuse of John Boehner during his press conference — Why would he be picking on this poor little guy who no one had ever heard of.
The only people who hadn’t heard of him were the ones who weren’t listening. He’s been vocal and up front for weeks now.
BGinCHI
The Dem compromise on this, if they have to, is that they’ll extend the idea of “middle class” to earners under $300,000.
When the GOP says no, ask what number they think defines the middle class.
That's Master of Accountancy to You, Pal (JMN)
@Mark S.:
The problem is that you’re also going to get Evan Bayh, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu and probably others explaining why they are taking the same stance that the Republicans do. Your strategy only works if the whole party is on board, and I don’t think that they are.
Bob Loblaw
While you dumbshits were too busy worrying about “who won the morning” based on a quote by a man with no legislative authority whatsoever on a Sunday morning show nobody outside of the DC area watches, another Senate Dem broke ranks again.
It’s our good pal from Connecticut. Quelle surprise.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/us/politics/14cong.html
Try paying attention to the chamber that actually matters, and less on the orange boogeyman…
cat48
Cantor has already came out against Boner’s “compromise.” The Daily Caller said “he caved!”
@Dogsdoingthings
Dogs who believe that mainstream political commentary is fueled by the tears of PUMAs.
Mike in NC
@SIA:
Fluffy indeed: shared a house with 10-12 brothers and sisters, worked his way through college, etc. Disappointed that they didn’t claim he was born in a log cabin, walked ten miles to school every day, and taught himself to read by candlelight.
Trying to picture Orange Boner in a stovepipe hat…
kindness
Why do Democrats need to be seen as compromising on this issue?
I just don’t get that part.
Mark S.
@Bob Loblaw:
If only we didn’t take our eyes off the ball, we could’ve stopped this!
You are one odd concern troll, Loblow.
srv
Why is this so hard for them to find talking points? The rich have had their tax cut and have parked their money – trickle down hasn’t worked, and this economy proves that.
Just say “instead of extending a tax break to the rich who are NOT reinvesting in rebuilding America, it’s time for the middle-class to get their fair share”
I know, they’ll never say this because we just have two parties of the rich.
kindness
@Bob Loblaw: Maybe you should switch to decaf.
Martin
@Bob Loblaw: Good for him.
Truth is, Dems can’t lose on this issue. If there’s an impasse, you let the cuts expire in full and then introduce a new bill that would set the cuts at the levels that the Dems want. So long as Dems don’t lose the Senate, it puts the GOP back in the position of saying no to tax cuts.
cat48
Obama is talking to a massage therapist right now at his lawn hall meeting. He’s told them that Boner & McKonel are blocking tax cuts……
He’s obviously ignoring Loblaw for some reason!
Ash Can
@Bob Loblaw: “Senate Dem.” Uh-huh.
quaint irene
Well, I know what the wingnuts would be moaning. ‘Voter fraud! Cheaters! Acorn strikes again!’
eemom
@ricky:
that’s what I said earlier. Everyone is acting like this is some sort of republican 11-D chess, and the fact of the matter most probably is that no-Boner Just. Fucked. Up.
chopper
@Mike in NC:
apparently, his family was so broke they lived on nothing but carrots.
BGinCHI
@srv: Agreed.
Also, how about someone on the TV news machine drilling into the demographic of the top 2% of earners.
Could it be that they aren’t all suffering small businessmen and women? How about some bio pieces on the fabulously rich and unproductive?
Allison W.
Just saw an abc news brief (NY) and the anchor says the GOP will block Obama’s middle class tax cut bill if they don’t include tax cuts for the wealthy.
Don’t see how that makes boehner looks good. no mention of a compromise. I don’t think anyone watching that would see the GOP in a positive light.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Mike in NC: And yet he has no concept of how other people in the same situation might have to cope. How he cannot feel that he got lucky getting out of his situation, and that others might need help, totally escapes me.
I remember my childhood so well that I drive my wife nuts buying nearly everything from a kid that comes to my door.
quaint irene
Wow, what a shocker; Lieberman voting against the Dems. And he hasn’t been a Democrat since 2007.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@chopper:
FTW!
I was going to say: “judge the man based on the content of his character, not the color of his skin”, but given the content of Boehner’s character, carrot jokes are doing him a kindness.
SiubhanDuinne
@SIA #51:
Hadn’t heard that. Yuck. But of course what’s iinfuriating is that the wingnuts — and a fair number of mainstream, also too — promote the idea that MSNBC is the *exact* left-wing equivalent to Fox, and that Keith Olbermann *all by his lonesome* balances out Rush, Beck, Hannity, Fox & Friends, and Coultergeist put together. So anything in the Li’l Luke fluffer that’s even remotely critical of Boehner (IOW, factual) will be framed as a liberal left-wing lamestream hit job on the Man of Orange.
(How are you, by the way?)
BGinCHI
@chopper: LOL.
Wascally wabbit.
FlipYrWhig
@chopper: I thought they all had to take second jobs at the Wonka factory.
licensed to kill time
@chopper: Hahahahahahahaha!
I actually had a friend who turned orange from drinking mass quantities of carrot juice. It can happen!
SiubhanDuinne
@chopper #69: Anybody know how to get coffe out of a BlackBerry?
Allison W.
@Bob Loblaw:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!! omg!! breaking news!!! Dude, that news is like DUH!! the only surprise is that you think that’s news.
SIA
@Mike in NC:
Heh. You forgot walking ten miles to school in the snow.
Bob Loblaw
@Mark S.:
Or just exposing your hypocrisy.
It’s kind of tough to bash the Cokie Robertses of the world on one hand, and then play their little air-headed game with the other.
OMG, did Boehner gaffe? lulz, he fucked up. What are other Republicans saying? What are Democrats saying about Boehner? What are Democrats saying about what Republicans are saying about Boehner? What are Greg Sargent and MSNBC saying about what Republicans are saying about what Democrats are saying about what Republicans are saying about what Democrats are saying about John Boehner? And his gaffe. Which is election changing I tells ya! What’s the White House saying? How are they playing it? Who will be seen as the compromiser? Is being seen as the compromiser good or bad here?! Is this 11-D chess? Will this drive a wedge in the Republican caucus?! What’s the narrative, I need my narrative!
Meanwhile, the Senate is in no particular condition or hurry to deal with this bill for the next several weeks, thus making all of this completely fucking irrelevant to anything. But it sure is fun to play pundit.
@Ash Can:
I should have used an asterisk. A gross oversight.
General Stuck
The good news of Boner’s gaffe, is it stirs up the already boiling pot of 11 d chess both sides are trying to play for voters sympathies, and increases the likelyhood nothing is passed as now wingers scramble to avoid being seen by Rush as pro Obama compromizers, which will be, contrary to CW, a victory for dems and Obama.
Who can then point again to gooper obstruction, and in Jan. will submit his own middle class tax cuts that are more targetted to dems wishes, with Obama’s stamp on them. And dare the wingnuts to block those.
Boner will just claim Obama used some sort of idjit ray on him and out popped the truth. And will continue the wingnut ‘no” to Obama jihad by voting no for something the wingers have no end game control over. Expiration.
Mark S.
@Bob Loblaw:
If you haven’t noticed, this is mostly a political blog. If these things don’t interest you, and they don’t interest most sane people, fine, go read something else.
As for the substantive issue, here are my preferences in order:
1. Let the Bush tax cuts expire.
2. Extend the Bush tax cuts for the 98% of people making less than $200,000.
.
.
.
989,995,062. Extend the Bush tax cuts for the top 2%.
Nick
@joe from Lowell:
Worked out fine for them, they’re still polling well enough to be favored to take back the House, while liberals are still bitching and moaning neither FinReg nor the BP shakedown were enough.
Nick
@Mark S.:
why make Mitchell do it, when he’s got his lapdog Mark Knoller from CBS doing it for him on Twitter;
Must be good to be able to call the Republican Senate Leader by his first name.
Nick
Jake Tapper goes there
Wrongly implying Obama’s plan is more expensive that the Republicans plan, leaving out that the Republican plan is $700B PLUS $3 trillion. Hinting that maybe we should just extend it to the rich and no one else?
Let the media liberal punching begin!
Bob Loblaw
@Mark S.:
But you’re completely misreading the politics. Christ, Stuck’s comment is on of the most on-point in the entire thread, and when does that ever happen?
The only bad outcome for Democrats is if their Senate caucus refuses not to allow top 2% rates to be cut in this session. That’s all you need to focus on. If the Dems hardline on the permanent extension for the “middle class” rates (and then some, but that’s a different story) and get sixty votes before November, fantastic. They can run on that. If they don’t, they can let the whole thing expire and pass their own identical package next session after the election. Unless Republicans control the House, in which case, they’ll still have had the Republican opposition to the permanent extension to have used in the election anyway. So if they lost even with that issue to wield, they were never going to win anyway, so who gives a fuck?
It doesn’t matter. The only people who matter are eight to ten Senators on the Democratic side, who if they want the complete extension badly enough, can get it this session and fuck everything up for their party. They’re who you need to focus in on. The only way for the Dems to screw this up is if they do it to themselves.
Mark S.
@Nick:
Ha! There was some tool from the Cato Institute or somewhere like that who was proposing just cutting taxes on the rich and raising everybody else’s. It’s good to see even the liberal Jack Tapper finds that to be an intriguing idea.
geg6
I’m with Mr. Marshall here:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/09/political_campaigns_often_include_inflection.php?ref=fpblg
Jamie
Well here’s hoping the downside of planning your victory parade before the actual contest will rear it’s ugly head.
Mark S.
@Bob Loblaw:
They can? They’ve got 60 votes for that? They got a majority in the House? Obama could still veto it.
Tax Analyst
@Midnight Marauder:
Nick
@Mark S.:
When left with the choice of suck it up and extend tax cuts for the rich for a few years or let everyone’s taxes go up, they’ll choose the former. The Republicans know that and that’s why they have the leg up.
Plus, like I said, the media is on their side.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@geg6:
Shorter version:
Blue Dog Senate Dems to the House Dems: drop dead, it must suck to be you.
General Stuck
@Mark S.:
Po loblolly, he so wants to be cool, but is dumb as a sack of hammers and changes his story about every thread. Previously claiming, since Obama had decided to make the middle class tax cuts permanent, it was a done deal. His, evidence, a think tank wonk paper, and because Obama had it in his budget proposal. The one that congress wipes it’s ass with and then makes it’s own budget.
SIA
@SiubhanDuinne: Hey SD! The Little Luke piece on Boehner was amazing – made ol’ John sound like Abe Lincoln. I don’t see Fox doing a fluff piece on say, anyone on the left. Nauseating! And OMG the Morning Joe folks really were promoting extending tax cuts for the rich. Andy Card blatantly lied about most people in small business make over 250K a year. RIIIIIGHT. Grrrr.
Anyway, I’m well, thanks for asking. Too much travel, too much to do, you know the drill!
BTW I LOVED your Peggy Dowd PdDoPhile bon mot yesterday. You are so good!
Allison W.
@Nick:
I’m not reading that the same way. looks like he’s saying that the GOP proposal (keep the cuts for the wealthy AND middle class) is unsustainable. then again it is Tapper so yeah you’re probably right.
daryljfontaine
@Allison W.: My read is: Top 2% want 19% of the tax cut pie? Hell no you can’t.
D
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
Yep, you’re so clearly right. Congress has secretly been waiting to raise taxes on every American. During a recession. This is all a ruse. There is no support for permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts for 98% of taxpayers. It doesn’t exist.
It is a done deal. There is no dissension in the party on the 98%. None. It will pass, if not this year, then the next. With or without the temporary extension for the top wage earners. The Democrats would sooner light themselves on fire en masse in ritualistic suicide, then get stuck with an effective 3.7T tax hike on all Americans before 2012. Because they won’t be able to spin that one, even if it’s actually the Republicans’ fault.
You don’t actually understand what it is you argue about do you? It explains so much.
Mark S.
@General Stuck:
What’s weird is he thought your comment was spot on and mine was apparently stupid, but I think we’re kind of saying the same thing.
@Nick:
Maybe, but I think the public is more on the side of the Dems. People who aren’t doing real well don’t really give a fuck about tax cuts for the rich. Well, the teabaggers do, but they aren’t most people.
SIA
@SIA: oops, should be PeDoPhile!
General Stuck
@Mark S.:
@Bob Loblaw:
Loblolly above is now even using winger terms like letting the temp Bush tax cuts expire as “raising taxes”. And the rest of it is blithering idjittery, that possibly his head just exploded.
edit – and I think we were saying about the same thing, that apparently does not compute on planet loblollipop./
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
The word ‘effective’ has a definition in the English language. Learn it.
Allison W.
How the AP is reporting it:
So long as its clear what Obama is proposing.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw: This is politics moran. The dictionary in use is the perception edition, that mostly matters how a situation or issue is perceived and therefore framed. Republicans want America to perceive the expiring tax cuts as tax increases, and dems want the country to see them as temp and going back to the Clinton era level of prosperity. And everyone perceives you as a fish out of water on politics and swallowing whole the wingnut dictionary.
General Stuck
@Allison W.: So many idiots out there. Senate wingers cannot block something that doesn’t exist. a tax increase. They can only sit by and wank themselves into a lather that Bush’s ill conceived gift to the rich temporary government sugar tit tax cuts will expire on it’s own accord. You would think our msm masters would figure this out by now.
rikyrah
methinks Orange Julius just stepped into it.
they wanna to puff pieces about the ‘ possible New Speaker’, then get ready and the WH needs to unload on him.
a straight up or down vote on the middle-class Tax Cuts.
plain and simple.
separate them.
make him PROVE IT. he won’t, and here we go – another commercial for the DNC.
Admiral_Komack
@cmorenc:
Word.
I don’t care what Boner & the Republicans say; just watch what they do.
General Stuck
More shocking news!! Oh noes, wingnuts come out for the rich. Nothing will get passed
Thank you Mr. Sunkist.
Mark S.
@General Stuck:
From your second link:
Ohhhhhhh Fuck you with asiangrrl’s entire repertoire of rusty pitchforks. Really, people making over $250,000 a year have been hit hardest by the recession?
How do these motherfuckers win? Who would vote for such a lying amoral asshole? These people are fucking sociopaths.
General Stuck
@Mark S.:
I dunno, scratches head.
RalfW
Greg Sargent is saying that the Dems might not put up a vote in the House to force the GOP on record as favoring the rich, via splitting the middle class and rich tax cuts.
If the defeatocrats can’t even catch this softball tossed by the Orange One, then I may just have to vote for this fat, dorky looser who cannot possible beat Keith Ellison.
FlipYrWhig
@RalfW: I keep telling everyone that the conservative Democrats are the reason we can’t have nice things. Whenever you want to rail at “The Dems,” imagine all those annoying Blue Dogs stamping their little blue feet, because that’s probably the reason Stupid Thing Du Jour is happening.
General Stuck
@RalfW: Whether dems call a vote or not, they win. And wingnuts are now in a full on civil war with part of the House tea tard wingnuts demanding no compromise with the Obamunist, and the other half hiding under their desks for fear of having to vote no on ANY tax cut. Why spoil that fun, and only a short time before the election. I suspect they will in the end call for mc only tax cut,@General Stuck: that if it passes, will be doa in the senate and nothing gets passed, and Obama will announce the new OBAMA mc tax cuts after the old ones expire in Jan. and dare the wingers to block those unless the rich get them too.
People underestimate how much the core dem caucus despised these tax cuts when they happened, and no less now. It was an ideological slap in the face to dems belief in progressive taxation when the second and third ones were added, tilted toward the rich, and having to be done thru reconciliation in the senate.
The rich tax cuts are dead, it’s just a matter of when, and dems also getting hammered for the deficit, and this includes blue dogs, are not all that thrilled with extending the middle class ones, at least the way Bush constructed them. But current politics suggests they should be extended, or new ones developed by dems and Obama, and is common decency for folks whose wages have been stagnant from 30 years of supply side trickle down bullshit wingnut philosophy.
But when the economy improves, everyone will need to ante up to pay for all our shit.
Nick
@Mark S.:
We’re a really stupid knee-jerk conservative country and they have the force of money and communications on their side.
I’m surprised they sometimes lose.
chaseyourtail
CNN was doing it earlier…John King and Wolfie were totally trying to make Boner look like the reasonable, good guy who was going to have to compromise with the stinky, unreasonable Obama Administration…it was extremely barf worthy, but not surprising.
I don’t even watch CNN anymore, but I flipped it (regretfully) there for a second and saw this crap…ugh, ugh, ugh.