In his interview of Carl Paladino, Rick Sanchez spent a lot of time discussing mosque construction in Manhattan, but here’s the most interesting part for the libertarians who endorsed him: he wants to use the right of eminent domain to seize the Burlington Coat Factory and turn it into a 9/11 memorial. He also believes that government has the right to declare that any building that was touched by dust from the 9/11 site can fall under eminent domain.
We will declare it, under the law, to be a right which is within the definition of public use. As long as it is within the definition of public use, which includes the zoning restrictions, then we would have a right to use eminent domain to place such a restriction over all the properties in that area.
Since he has also pledged to cut taxes, Medicaid and the size of government, our precious freedom won’t be endangered. (CNN won’t allow embedding of their interviews, but the first part is also worth watching.)
jibeaux
He would change his tune if any of the strip clubs right around Ground Zero were more accomodating of equines.
El Cid
I thought that in Libertopia, there were no “public use” areas or items.
Dan
Little did the terrorists know that by knocking down the world trade center they’d be turning the entire financial district, the center of american commerce, into a memorial. this is beyond their wildest dreams.
cleek
the terrorists hate us for our freedom to persecute unpopular religions.
beltane
Even my mother’s apartment in midtown got a coating of dust from 9/11. I don’t think Manhattan (or Brooklyn) property owners will find Paldino’s proposal to be very amusing.
I think the victims of 9/11 deserve a better memorial than the old Burlington Coat Factory located on one of the areas drearier streets.
beltane
@El Cid: Maybe there are no public use areas, but there are also no private use areas unless you are a member of an officially state approved religion.
Anya
This guy looks creepy and he is a dirty old man. How can anyone vote for him. I am just shocked that New York has that many clueless voters. I hope he gets trounced in the general. Whenever I see his campaign slogan, “I’m Mad Too, Carl!” I feel like throwing up. I am glad I live in an area where I do not have to see it.
The Republic of Stupidity
Perhaps Carl would like to see some sort of memorial stable built on the site…
Srsly… this brings to mind a hoary tale told about LBJ in his earlier years, when he was in a close race for office.
Lyndon reportedly suggested to his strategists that they start a rumor his opponent enjoyed sexual congress with his barnyard sows. Replied one stragtegist, “Jesus, Lyndon, we can’t call him a pig farker…”
Said Lyndon, “I know, but we can make him deny it…”
If Paladino’s opponent doesn’t use that bit of of, uh, ‘autobiographical info’ against him… on the other hand, for all we know, Carl is PROUD of that story…
Scott
The only good thing about the Paladino campaign is that they haven’t even started making embarrassing gaffes yet. Horse porn and racist e-mails are just the tip of the iceberg — I’m expecting some really nuclear fuckups between now and election day…
Bulworth
Conservatives are for less government, except when they’re for more.
phillip anderson
It’s baffled me since he rolled this line out 6 weeks or so ago. I’m not surprised he would say this. I mean, he’s not an ideologue, he’s a fucking nutjob who will do or say (or spend) anything to get what he wants. What has driven me nuts is that this “proposal” of his is so utterly at odds with the rest of the dog and pony show that he (and he rest of the teahadists are) trying to hustle and no one has said a fucking word about it. Maybe someone should ask him how such nonsense squares with the rest of his “limited government”, tenther-ish world view.
RSA
Touched by dust? In one of John Allen Paulos’s books, he calculates the probability that he’s breathed in one of the molecules of air that Julius Caesar exhaled when he died. (Or something along those lines.) Will 9/11 building restrictions apply to the entire world now?
beltane
@The Republic of Stupidity: One thing that can be said about New York Dems is that they have learned how to play dirty. I look forward to Cuomo’s attacks.
@Anya: They are mad, in the same way the Mad Hatter was mad. A mere governor cannot cure them of their madness.
John S.
All conservatives belong to Howard Beale.
jibeaux
@The Republic of Stupidity:
O/T, but I once heard on the radio some tapes of LBJ on the phone — as president — ordering more custom made jeans, explaining in some detail how the seams on regular jeans rubbed his balls the wrong way. As presidential material, the man was unique.
dmsilev
Didn’t the dust cloud extend for miles? And given that there are already multiple mosques in Manhattan, wouldn’t some of them have been coated by said dust? Since the mosques didn’t vanish in a matter-antimatter explosion during said coating, I think we can conclude that the debris cloud was not in and of itself inimical to mosques.
Shorter: Paladino can go suck a horse’s dong. I understand he is already in possession of some visual guides as to the necessary technique.
dms
Michael
Does this mean that the teatards/conservatives/libertarians are going to stop whining like a bunch of pathetic little bitches about the Kelo decision?
Cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy are a feature in conservatard thinking.
Kirk Spencer
@RSA: It would tend to justify actions against Iran, now wouldn’t it? (/snark)
jibeaux
@Michael:
I’m a liberal, and I thought Kelo bit it, hard.
Zuzu's Petals
I’m stunned to hear Paladino launched his campaign with a clip of Howard Beale’s “I’m mad as hell” speech, and can’t believe it’s become his campaign motto.
Or should I say I just can’t believe anyone is that unaware that Paddy Chayefsky was writing satire. I imagine he’s having a great belly laugh at Paladino’s expense right now, wherever he is.
Omnes Omnibus
@beltane:
Mercury poisoning?
El Cid
From commenter Amir_Khalid on a thread early this morning:
The Portland Press Herald apologized for printing a cover story about local Muslims celebrating Eid-al-Fitr because so many people were traumatized about 9/11.
Cowards. Asshole fucking cowards.
The way it should have read.
“Dear readers:
We are sorry that many of you are anti-American chickenshit chauvinists. Any of you who feel so traumatized about 9/11/2001 that you get to discriminate against Muslims as opposed to all religions can go crawl under a fucking rock and die, and fuck you and your ‘trauma’.
Sincerely, The Editors
PS Also, too: Fuck all you shits.
beltane
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s as good an explanation as any. They are not angry at anything in particular, they are just mad.
peach flavored shampoo
From what I’ve seen/heard of this clown, it appears that he put an extraneous “l” in “public”
gex
@Omnes Omnibus: Many raised during the era of leaded gas and lead paint.
The Republic of Stupidity
@jibeaux:
Didn’t he have some visiting official meet w/ him whilst Lyndon was ensconced upon the commode?
And then, there’s always the famous appendectomy scar photo…
jibeaux
Ok, just read this at TBogg and giggled.
The Republic of Stupidity
@beltane:
Then mebbe they can give some lessons to the rest of the party…
jwb
@El Cid: Hopefully, since this happened in Portland the editors will get serious blowback for their cowardice. If I was living in Portland, I would definitely write to the editor calling them on that bullshit.
On the other hand, this is one place the conservatives and teabaggers are much better organized than the left: manufacturing large numbers of calls and letters to politicians and media outlets. It’s an element of basic politics that the left just doesn’t do very well (though my impression is that the left is for some reason better at corporate boycotting).
PaulW
If hypocrisy were a felony most of the self-declared libertarians would be on death row.
It’s amazing how they’re all for their utopian ideals like “personal liberty,” “right to property,” “no government intervention” but when something abuses their sensitive nostrils they jump straight for the very weapons that shouldn’t exist in their perfect little world.
They call themselves libertarians because it’s so flashy and savvy to do so. But stuff like this – calling for “eminent domain laws” to be used to stop the building of a Muslim Pool Hall, for God’s sake – exposes these libtards for what they are: hard core Conservatives trying to trick voters into buying their ass-in-lion’s-fur act.
Real libertarians, when you think about it, won’t even be involved in federal politics at all (Real libertarians would have gone Galt and retired to some small town where their talents would be truly appreciated and accepted).
So, to Paladino, to Rand Paul, to the other well-coiffed preening libtard bastards out there: go to Hell.
The Republic of Stupidity
@El Cid:
And just think how many of those writing letters to the editor to protest the Muslim celebration actually had to put down their Double Downs to do it… too… also…
TR
OT, but CNBC’s moronic Trish Regan is on MSNBC insisting that the rich need a tax cut because they spend the most — even with Chuck Todd pushing back hard, citing Mark Zandi and Moody’s, and his co-host pushing back hard, citing the CBO — all of them saying that tax cuts for the rich are the least effective way to boost the economy — she’s just going ahead, pushing the retarded Rick Santelli line about how the rich are the key to everything. What a fucking moron.
beltane
@The Republic of Stupidity: Chuck Schumer was very successful during his tenure at the DSCC. Things have gone to crap since Menendez took over.
Kryptik
So does this mean if Paladino wins, they’re going to seize everything at least south of NoHo and make it one giant ‘National 9/11 Fuck All You Muslims Memorial Pit’?
beltane
@Kryptik: That means they’d have to get rid of the NYSE. Hmmm….
chopper
now that’s a horse of a different color!
just wanted to say that.
morzer
@Kryptik:
I believe a number of fire-fighters and cops might have breathed in the dust of 9/11. Where’s their fucking national monument status, Paladino?
BruceFromOhio
@Dan: This.
These fucking maroons play right into Atta’s cursed objective, and worse, do so happily, willingly.
May they all rot in the filthiest depths of the lowest of Hells, Gaia help me.
Carnacki
For someone to publicly share the racists photos and bestiality video and believe that is acceptable behavior makes me fearful of what goes on in the recesses of his mind that are even more disturbing and that he hides.
daveNYC
I imagine that anyone who owns property in lower Manhattan or in Brooklyn Heights is pretty psyched to hear that the state should use it’s authority to grab any of their property if they do anything that the state doesn’t like.
It’s annoying enough for people when NYC steps in, but at least that’s the city, there’s some amount of loyalty to the city. Not so much love for the state level government.
Linda Featheringill
Is it true that Palladino is a member in good standing of the American Taliban?
morzer
@Linda Featheringill:
Hard to tell under the white hoods.
Bob In Pacifica
Funny. I thought eminent domain was the first thing that a libertarian would be opposed to. You know, the government seizing your property.
I guess this has been discussed to death, but really, what do these teabaggers really stand for except anger? I mean this is just the latest okeydoke to squeeze more out of the regular folks, but the regular folks are supporting eminent domain so that some Muslims can’t build a mosque at an old Burlington Coat Factory? And this guy Paladino is a real estate guy?
aimai
@phillip anderson:
“Dog and Pony Show?” Did I miss that email?
aimai
morzer
@Bob In Pacifica:
No, libertarians are opposed to the seizure of rich white folks’ property. That’s when it becomes an issue.
NonyNony
@PaulW: I mostly agree with your sentiment, but I take issue with this:
I will admit that I don’t think I know what a “real libertarian” is, even though a couple of decades ago I considered myself a libertarian (nowadays I’d go by “civil libertarian” if that weren’t just rhetorical gibberish to avoid the term “liberal”). But by this I infer that you mean Rand-inspired libertarians. And those folks are just authoritarians who are embarrassed by their authoritarianism because they live in the USA and our national myth demonizes authoritarianism. Randian libertarianism is just a way to dress up authoritarianism with a new vocabulary to make it palatable for folks who were raised on stories of the Founding Fathers throwing the King of England out of the country.
But I would never expect a Rand-inspired libertarian to divorce themselves from politics at all. The whole parable of John Galt is just a fantasy to justify authoritarianism – that society is beholden to the “Producer” class (i.e. the capitalists who “earned” their money by picking the right parents to be born to) and that the “Leeches’ should just do what they say because the “Producers” are the only people worth a damn in the world and the “Leeches” should be happy that the “Producers” even allow them to work in their factories. With the added touch that the fantasy allows them to project themselves as members of the “Producer” class – even if they work as a professor at a state university and are the most obvious example of a Randian Leech in the country. As long as they acknowledge the caste system and work to maintain it, nothing else matters.
Ahasuerus
@gex: You may have intended that comment as snark, but it does provide the germ of an interesting hypothesis…
colleeniem
@El Cid: I just moved to Portland, and 2 days ago recieved an offer for 6 mos delivery of the PPH. It would have been good for my job (being informed) I literally had it in my bag to mail out–I just threw it away and sent an email telling them I did so. I am so sick of such cowardice.
ETA: suck=such
Ahasuerus
@beltane: New Jersey FTW!!
Yougoddaproblemwiddat?
cleek
@Bob In Pacifica:
they want to take America back from the liberals, who are responsible for Every Single Thing they don’t like. they’re a seething mass of ignorance, entitlement, anger and nostalgia.
liberal
You don’t need to go that far to see that so-called libertarianism is incoherent on freedom. Just take its view on land in general. It’s clear that modern libertarians are nothing more than crypto-feudalists.
As one of my favorite blog commenters put it most concisely:
Hugin & Munin
Cleek: Wait, you’re saying that they are Nixon voters? Holy 1968, Batman!
I guess this is the farce go-round.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ahasuerus: Mad as a hatter had a scientific explanation.
norbizness
Kent: And the results are in. For Sideshow Bob, 100%, for Joe Quimby. 1%. And we remind you there is a 1% margin of error.
liberal
@PaulW:
As I just posted, even if they’re opposed to eminent domain, the ideals of “personal liberty” and “right to property” are in grave conflict when “right to property” includes land, as opposed to things that are the fruit of labor.
liberal
@jwb:
Perhaps. But remember, organizing protest is a collective action problem. The rightists in the US have a much easier time solving collective action problems, because the rich provide them funding and things like TV networks and radio talk shows to direct them.
jonas
Having recently moved to New York, I’m excited how this fall’s governor’s race is just going to be so full of winning moments.
I’ve been trying to think what this all would look like if it was the far left bringing Teh Crazy on like the Tea Party is this election season. We’d have a woman named Gaia Gardenpeace — a bisexual living openly with three partners, two male, one female — running for governor of a major state on a platform of forbidding all forms of animal husbandry and balancing the state budget with the use of astral crystals or something; around the country, hard-core, unreconstructed communists campaigning in fatigues and balaclavas would be running for Congress promising to abolish the defense department and nationalize major manufacturing and energy concerns; All Democratic candidates for nationwide office would have to be unapologetic 9-11 truthers who vow to “get to the bottom” of the massive corporate-capitalist/CIA conspiracy responsible for everything wrong in the country. The endorsement of the Black Panthers would be a highly sought-after prize.
And the media would treat all of these figures extremely seriously, invite them on Sunday morning talk shows, etc.
John S.
@cleek:
That’s also a very good description for our poutrage friends on the left:
Our fringe are also motivated by ignorance and anger, they just have a very different way of showing it. Teabaggers lash out at those they deem to be their enemy, like an abusive husband. Firebaggers turn their ire inwards, lashing out at their friends and themselves, like an abused wife.
cleek
@Hugin & Munin:
precisely.
conservatism is the same as it ever was: resentful, ignorant and convinced there’s a glorious past we could return to once the liberals are out of the way.
Kryptik
@beltane:
But then where would our Goron Gekkkos go?
@morzer:
Most of them weren’t ‘Real Americans’ don’cha know. In fact, quite a few of them were MOOSLIM, if you can believe that! Thus, it’s probably best they were all thrown into the foundations of the new Memorial Pit altogether. You know, remind everyone that only Real America can lay claim to 9/11. Something like that. Being as incoherent as these assholes takes more effort than I realize.
RSR
idiot…there already is a 9/11 memorial (my sister-in-law works for the foundation)
http://www.national911memorial.org/
Woodrowfan
Does that mean no mosques to the east of the Pentagon either?
Woodrowfan
@The Republic of Stupidity: That was, I believe, a staffer…..
Kryptik
@jonas:
Hahahahahaha…oh, naivete…
Linda Featheringill
@NonyNony:
Rand as authoritarian.
Interesting. I haven’t read Rand in a long, long time. I might have to think about that idea for a while.
MLE
And he apparently has a rather incorrect view of what eminent domain even is. Any property can be taken (with just compensation or course), for public use. It does not matter what happened before the seizure (like dust falling on it), just what happens afterwards (must be for “public use”). Though most of us will recall the furor over Kelo, so even that really doesn’t matter much.
El Cid
@colleeniem: You love the terrorists and shari’a law and want to have their babies.
Linda Featheringill
I wonder how much of what now passes for Conservatism is also authoritarianism?
Hugin & Munin
Everything I needed to know about Rand I learned from Robert Anton Wilson.
Telemachus Sneezed, anyone?
Ahasuerus
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, Hg toxicity. I was referring to the hypothesis that the decline in violent crime over the past few decades was at least in part a result of removal of leaded gasoline and it’s resultant heavy metal toxicity from the environment. As I recall this hypothesis will get some test data in the near future as some country recently phased out leaded gasoline (sorry, can’t find the link and don’t remember the specific country).
NonyNony
@Hugin & Munin:
Now, if you want to talk about Robert Shea/Robert Anton Wilson libertarians, that’s a completely different story.
If Hagbard Celine turns out to be the ultimate force behind the Tea Party movement, I will not be surprised.
Anya
@The Republic of Stupidity: Andrew Cuomo better be forceful with his attacks on nutjob. He did not mince words when he was ridiculing Barack Obama during the 2008 primaries so I expect some creative viciousness from him when it comes to this sleazy teabagger.
slag
The Republican paradox in a nutshell.
I’ll be honest. I don’t care about this guy–he’s going to lose. What I do care about is how we so often overlook this paradox when Republicans are going on and on about FREEDOM!(!!) in their complaints about Democratic policy initiatives. The irony couldn’t be more glaring and yet it’s constantly ignored in favor of the time-honored “Republicans = limited government” narrative. Incredibly annoying.
Martin
@Linda Featheringill: All of it, as far as I can tell.
Can we start a campaign for Paladino to seize the Federal Reserve building in NYC? It’s also in the dust cloud and contains victory gold from countless Muslim nations. Any reasonable person would realize that the gold bars have Allah Akbar stamped on them and are sitting in preparation for when Islam finally conquers lower manhattan.
El Cid
Summaries and more debate about the Afghanistan Study Group Report arguing that the continued US presence [in anything like its size and scope] is both harmful to Afghanistan and not assisting the declared US interest in preventing Al Qa’ida training bases from reforming or a complete Taliban takeover, here and here, from a couple of the Study Group’s participants, which include regional and military / security experts.
wasabi gasp
What can you say about a fella who already fucked the horse he rode in on?
Hugin & Munin
El Cid: How can they be experts if they aren’t telling me what I want to hear?
Svensker
@El Cid:
That is really discouraging. Some days, it’s hard to keep the chin up.
Cris
As NonyNony says, people in favor of personal liberty use the term “civil libertarian.” The problem with these other guys is that they don’t use a qualifier, and they should. They’re market libertarians — they only believe government should stay out of the boardroom, but they’re happy to install it in the bedroom.
Cris
Teabag Mindfuck
jonas
@Linda Featheringill:
It is now a truism that for modern American conservativism, no expansion of government or level of debt spending is too much as long as the policy or project involved is somehow punitive towards poor and/or brown people. To wit — billions of dollars to provide affordable health insurance to average folks: a totalitarian abomination. Billions of dollars for intrusive, abuse-prone law enforcement and surveillance to catch poor migrants trying to find a job and feed their families along the Mexican border: spend, baby, spend!!
Luthe
Does the horse-fucker even know how zoning regulations and takings law works? It is complicated as all hell and there are volumes of case law devoted to the very subject.
@MLE:
Not so much. Public use, yes, but public use that is in the public interest^. A municipality can declare it is going to knock down all the buildings it thinks are ugly and put parks on all the vacant lots, but it’s not in the public interest to have half the city destroyed. Also, targeting a specific building for eminent domain seizure because you don’t like its current use borders on spot zoning and definitely meets the “arbitrary and capricious” standard. A judge would issue an injunction against the city so fast that the ink wouldn’t even be dry on the city’s paperwork.
^The justification of the Court in the Kelo case was that by taking the land and giving it to a private developer, the city was furthering the public interest by generating jobs and increasing city revenue. I think the developer also had to provide some amenities like parks as well.
Also, I remind everyone that there is a federal law prohibiting discrimination in zoning based on the religious affiliation of the proposed use. It was heavily pushed by the Christianists and signed by President Clinton.
/current planning student taking planning law
MattR
@Martin:
This is a good start, but I can’t believe you forgot to mention the UN as well :)
ricky
@wasabi gasp:
Awesome.
Remember November
@RSA:
I was touched by dust that, day does that make me emminant domain? What about the Century 21 Building? Can we turn that into part of the memorial?
Palamino needs to be put out to pasture.
Martin
@MattR: The UN is all the way up on 42nd street. I know that all good Christians on earth were technically covered by the dust cloud (I think that the 9/11 dust cloud and Jesus looking over us from heaven are now synonymous), but I haven’t seen any of the detailed wingnut maps go so far as include 42nd street on them. As the wingnuts expand, so will my schemes.
Gravenstone
Given Paladino’s apparent admiration of bestiality, and Rick Santorum’s seeming deathly fear of the same, perhaps someone could introduce the two gentlemen to each other. If we’re really really lucky, they’ll annihilate during the handshake and resolve a world of problems.
whetstone
Oh, mistermix, you’re so naive. You should really be reading Reasonable Libertarians like Steve Chapman. They’ll tell you the real deal.
See, it only starts with the racist mouthbreathing hypocrites. Once America realizes they have a really good point, all the sensible people will be like, “can I have this tea without the side of drooling xenophobia?”
Fuck it: if it doesn’t matter what else your candidates think as long as they want to destroy Medicare and unions, why not just elect mental patients? (Ones on private health insurance, of course.)
The Bearded Blogger
@whetstone: Glibertarians could rationalize the holocaust.
whetstone
@Luthe: “Does the horse-fucker even know how zoning regulations and takings law works? It is complicated as all hell and there are volumes of case law devoted to the very subject.”
Well, he’s a lawyer who runs a development corporation and who’s also in a firm that specializes in… wait for it… corporate and property law.
So, yeah, I’m assuming he knows exactly how hard it is to do what it is he plans to do, and what a dick move it is to do to a private property owner.
My guess is that he’s just bullshitting. But who knows?
jl
Looks like the GOP party fight is over, at least the fun bits we can see on TV. I read this morning that Rove has bowed and scraped to Rush, and loves them crazy teapeeps winning primaries and spreading the nutso.
Oh well, fun while it lasted. GOPers fight funner than Dems.
Dr. Psycho
@Anya: “I’m Mad Too, Carl!”
Well, at least he has correctly identified his natural consituency: the mad.
TooManyJens
@The Republic of Stupidity: Google “LBJ ordering pants”. It’s priceless.
Cris
@Dr. Psycho: “We’re all mad here.”
Older
@wasabi gasp: Wasabi Gasp FTW!!
Older
@El Cid: I’ve been waiting for someone to ask, but I guess I will have to do it: If the events of 9-11 have so traumatized people that they can’t bear to be reminded that some folks have holidays around that time of year, why is it that Muslims have been celebrating Eid-al-Fitr all these years since the towers went down, and there hasn’t been all this outrage about the awful traumatic effect before now?
Are they all complete idiots? (Yeah yeah, I know.)
Fax Paladin
@Older: Ramadan and Eid-al-Fitr are set according to a lunar calendar, so the date varies widely in the Gregorian calendar. This is the first time since the attacks that it’s fallen in this time of year.
TooManyJens
@Older: Eid moves around the (Gregorian) calendar; it hasn’t fallen this close to 9/11 since, well, long before 9/11.
This in NO WAY means that it’s OK for people to freak out about the newspaper’s coverage, but it does explain why this particular issue hasn’t come up before.
Stefan
Paladino vowed to kill the Islamic center near Ground Zero by using the state’s eminent domain power to seize the property—not exactly a small-government approach. With his incendiary rhetoric and fondness for racist jokes, he exemplifies the ugly side of the movement. But he would not have won the primary without his demand to curb public employee unions and slash state spending. It would be a great thing if sensible, temperate, consistently libertarian citizens would mobilize en masse to force similar changes today. Until then, the tea party will have to do.
Hitler vowed to cleanse Germany of the Jews by using the state’s eminent domain power to seize their property—not exactly a small-government approach. With his incendiary rhetoric and fondness for racist policies, he exemplifies the ugly side of the movement. But he would not have won the chancellorship of Germany without his demand to fight Communism and provide for full employment.
It would be a great thing if sensible, temperate, consistently conservative German citizens would mobilize en masse to force similar changes today. Until then, the Nazi Party will have to do.
Uloborus
@Cris:
‘This is an interesting conversation for people who aren’t crazy.’
El Cid
@Older: I’m too traumatized by 9/11 to talk about Muslims.
pseudonymous in nc
Fuck me, and forgive me the Godwin, but the Koch-sucker glibertarians really do think that they can use the ‘baggers in the same way that the reactionary monarchist DNVP thought that they could use the Nazis.