I blog with John and it’s a mystery to me:
Of course it wasn’t true that the health care bill would “bend the curve on this inexorable rise in health care costs.” But Axelrod’s efforts were largely successful, and in short order Olbermann, Dean and others were wilting under the onslaught and toeing the White House line.
[…..]People like Chait and Yglesias who have little or no experience in electoral politics might have an excuse for thinking opposition to the health care bill was a “marginal point of view” and a “counterproductive dead-ender stance,” especially if they were looking to the opinions of influential elites like Axelrod for their cues.
And it’s no mystery why freshly minted Democrat John Cole was cheerleading the comfortable familiarity of a Republican health care bill – after its passage, Nancy Pelosi quickly sent out an email bragging that its underlying principles were written by the Heritage Foundation, with the helpful quote that “Democrats have been less than true to their principles.”
Seriously, what is the obvious reason for John to have cheerled this destructive bill? Is it just because he used to be a Republican? Or is there a suggestion of something more nefarious here?
Help me out.
Xboxershorts
I don’t see the wreckage either. Clearly K-Thug thought it was definitely better than nothing and would actually save some money and improve coverage (albeit, not enough)
lol
lol at Jane Hamsher slamming people for not having any experience in electoral politics.
steviez314
I heard he snuck in a special rescue dog and overweight cat health care provision.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Hilarious. Is this meant to contrast with the vast experience of Herself, who took a roadtrip to Connecticut to get in the way of the Lamont campaign?
Strandedvandal
destructive bill?
DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s a strange accusation, I agree.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Because after being badly burned by ideology once before, he’s become a stubbornly determined pragmatist?
So what do I win, if this is the right answer? Half a loaf of bread would be nice. Better than nuthin’ – or so some people say, anyway.
Brachiator
Wow. So, John Cole is not ideologically pure?
steviez314
Or, he was obviously hypnotized (see 2 posts below).
Rob Roser
Orly Hamsher FTW!
Martin
Uh, where’s her proof of that? Or is her saying so proof? Both governmental and non-profit groups have shown that it will bend the curve. Not enough, mind you, but it does improve the situation measurably.
Oh, and holy fuck – I’m 3 miles from the ocean and it’s 105 fucking degrees out at the end of September. What kind of hell is this?
Dennis SGMM
“…freshly minted Democrat”
What’s the over/under on Cole crying himself to sleep tonight?
Ed Marshall
It’s John Cole is a crypto-republican mole. His Saul on the road to Damascus conversion didn’t take hold completely and thus he was drawn to the evil health care bill instinctively because it was partially drawn using ideas from the Heritage Foundation. Any true
Scotsmanliberal would be out-i-say-out-fucking raged that we didn’t reduce the HMO’s and insurance companies to smoldering ruins when we had the chance.Dave
Yeah, why let reality get in the way when you can be ideologically pure and scorch the earth.
I’d like to see Jane tell families that are benefiting from the first round of changes to health care that they should have never been.
Obama helped get a health-care bill passed that did more to set up a path to national healthcare for everyone than any other President has in our national history. And for that he gets slapped around by both sides of the aisle. Which probably means he did a damn good job.
Maxwel
WTF!?! I thought the HC bill was really popular.
The Other Chuck
Maybe because he knew this was the best we were going to get?
The firebagger opposition comes down to one thing: the mandate. When you look at the fee compared to what the insurance companies are gouging us for, it doesn’t look like all that much to pay for in return for cutting the balls off those for-profit death panels. This is just the first slice.
Hamsher wanted everything, wanted it now, and was willing to elect republicans who promised to take everything away in order to get it.
stuckinred
@Maxwel: Not with Jane.
Violet
You forgot this part:
John wasn’t on JournoList, right?
Jane’s got her facts all mixed up.
stuckinred
@Violet: it’s the meds and all that maui wowee
someguy
I hear that Cole is traveling around with several young male companions and soliciting donations from followers in what he characterizes as “Muscular Warrior Liberalism.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dennis SGMM:
Hammy Jane must read the blog, she knows all about his fresh mint mojitos
Joey Maloney
@Ed Marshall:
Foghorn Leghorn FTW!
Violet
@someguy:
Cole travels with bitches and one male companion. A fat, fluffy one who rules the house.
JGabriel
TPM: Dems Blamed For Co-Opting ‘Tea Party’ Label To Split Conservative Vote
B-b-but, I thought Tea Partiers were INDEPENDENT. You mean their votes are not equally up for grabs by Republicans and Democrats?
I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!
.
arguingwithsignposts
John Cole is now a member of the Juice Box Mafia. Who knew?
Keith G
I think Jane is an enemy combatant.
LGRooney
She’s taking a real page from the Heritage Foundation handbook, i.e., just making shit up to prove one’s point (with the added benefit that John, her severe critic in the health-care debate, will feel the jab at being branded a neophyte anything).
Poopyman
Well, the gist of the FDL post is intended to take down Axelrod, and Jane is pulling in as many smoking guns as she can find and/or -make up- allude to. Cole is just one of a number of innocent bystanders in her blast zone.
Give me a minute and I’ll find a few more metaphors to torture.
Ed Marshall
She can’t read the internals on the poll she is waving around because it doesn’t say what she thinks it says, but she is the political genius.
Eric F
I guess we got dog whistles on the Left too, ’cause I don’t understand half the shit she writes. I always feel like I’ve walked in on a half-over conversation.
Or maybe she’s just batshit crazy…
Joe Beese
It’s no mystery to me. Cole is a devoted water-carrier for whichever Dear Leader he happens to believe in at the time. So if Obama is served by cheerleading for an insurance company bailout, Cole will happily get out the miniskirt and pom-poms.
And today he beats his breast about Obama murdering American citizens and cries, “How could this have happened?!”
Poopyman
@Violet:
Correct.
Ohhhhhh, you could put it that way, I guess.
beltane
Umm, Jane Hamsher is the same person who called BooMan a “troll with a blog” and who thought a teabagger/progressive alliance would be the bestest thing ever. Anyone who was all hugs and kisses with Grover Norquist has no standing to be questioning John Cole’s motives with regards to HCR.
eemom
don’t look now y’all……..but that “Balloon Juice”? It’s a COOKBOOK!
And we’re in the Veeeeaaaaal Pen……!!
Downpuppy
We all know where the John/Jane war is heading.
All we can do is pray that the cameras stop while their clothes are still on.
Lowkey
@DougJ:
Stop looking for deep-seated reason from Hamsher. It will give you the brain cancerings.
You’re welcome.
LGRooney
@Poopyman: JC dared to criticize her! Nothing innocent about him in her eyes.
And, I don’t care how much my literacy is endangered by your writing!
Ed Marshall
@Joe Beese:
Thank you for the firebagger to human translation. It makes my head hurt trying to read Jane Hamsher.
stuckinred
@eemom: You know what I like best over here? I haven’t read that insipid fucking “K” word in 6 months!
David
True progressives get their talking points from Grover Norquist.
Culture of Truth
Sellouts to TEH MAN:
Obama, Axelrod, Rahm, Sebelius, Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Kucinich, Olbermann, Chait, Matt Y, Cole and Zippy the Wonder Horse.
electricgrendel
OH MY GOD! This place is doomed! Someone has caught on to John Cole’s love of pom-poms, bloomers and short skirts!
Steve
The quote about Democrats being less than true to their principles, by the way, comes from an E.J. Dionne op-ed that was quoted in Pelosi’s email. It ends like this:
Not really the harshest indictment of the Democratic Party I’ve ever read, even from a progressive standpoint.
david mizner
Oh, come on. It’s clear what she’s saying: it’s no surprise that a person who was a Republican like ten minutes earlier would like a Republican bill.
Just as it’s no surprise that most of Obama’s biggest boosters in the blogosphere are either New Republic Democrats and former Republicans.
But I, for one, thinks Cole isn’t the Bot that people claim. Downthread he says what Obama is doing is “evil.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Culture of Truth: also: Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown, Sheldon Whitehouse, Barbara Boxer, Barbara Mikulski, Dennis Kucinich, Sheila Jackson Lee, Jan Schakowsky, Pete Stark, Henry Waxman, Diana DeGette…..
Poopyman
And I did not get my Open thread, so this headline will have to be buried here:
“Tycoon who took over Segway firm dies in freak accident after riding one of the machines off hillside and into a river”
He seems to have been a pretty decent guy and his death is a tragedy, but still I’m visualizing Wiley Coyote when I read that article.
(ETA: H/T to Tengrain for this one.)
Amanda in the South Bay
@Martin:
I hear ya, the forecast for Mountain View is 93, and it supposed to be 86 today in the city. When its 86 in the city, you know you’re fucked anyplace else.
beltane
I’m glad the post is titled “Axelrod stabs Rahm”. It wouldn’t be a proper FDL post without someone getting stabbed in the back. Sorry there was no mention of shit sandwiches being served under the bus in the veal pen though.
Corner Stone
@beltane: BooMan is a troll with a blog.
No one, ever, anywhere, has sucked the dongle of the Obama Admin as hard and as consistently as BooMan.
Lab Partner
@beltane: Jane’s still pissed she couldn’t strong arm John into a 3way with her and Grover Norquist.
Rosalita
@Martin:
SoCal in the fall. I remember a Labor Day where it was 118…don’t miss that weather at all
eemom
hey, how ’bout we all go over to FDL and see how long it takes Jane and her Eunuch-In-Chief, “RBG,” to ban all of our asses?
The Other Chuck
@Joe Beese:
Yeah, he’s a cheerleader except when he isn’t. How dare he be inconsistent, why can’t he be a sychophant like all those other left bloggers.
stuckinred
@eemom: It looks like that punk Eureka Springs has dropped out over there?
Chyron HR
@Joe Beese:
But of course.
Which is central to your point also, too.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Remember, one day Balloon Juice showed up on Rachel Maddow. Has FDL?
jl
Hamsher obscures as much as she enlightens with the phrase “extremely unpopular health care bill”. IIRC, it is unpopular with a plurality because it does not go far enough to the so called ‘left’ (but is not ‘left’ at all IMHO, but merely does not go far enough in terms of responsible insurance regulation that we see in other countries, and for other lines of insurance in the US).
Were I the WH, I would take that as an opportunity to sell further progress on health care reform.
I do not remember the said Cole ‘cheerleading’. I remember him, along with Cenk Uygur, as being ex GOPers, so disillusioned with the whole process they began asking for a straightout nationalized system of some kind, for example, Medicare for all. Both were worried that the bill was dung, but the best dung we could pass. Uygur significantly more pessimistic.
I don’t see where Hamsher supports her assertion that the bill in its current form does not ‘bend the curve’.
Huggy Bear
Wow, that post sounds like it was written from the perspective of someone who spent a lifetime creating, enacting, and shaping public policy. Too bad she skipped all of the important stuff and just assumed that mantle by being a blogger. With that “always certain, never right” flair to the writing, she’s starting to sound like a Republican. I don’t know if she should change her name to Janeah Goldberg or McJane. Tough call.
mclaren
The HCR non-reform bill may have been destructive, but it’s just as true that we couldn’t sit by and do nothing. It was a case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
That’s still true. America has really painted itself into a corner on the whole issue of health care. It’s astounding and tragic, because national health care is a solved problem among all the other developed nations. Japan, Europe, Canada, you name it…they have solved this problem.
Yet here we continue to flail like insects stuck in yogurt. It’s pathetic, like watching a bunch of 3-year-olds try to write War and Peace.
stuckinred
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Oh yea.
Bob L
I must be reading another blog because I recall John being for HRC because it was the only bill that was going to get past the Blue Dogs in the Senate, as opposed to anything John really wanted. Now it turns our John is just a GOP plant to destroy the progressives like Obama.
Sloegin
Hell hath no fury like a firebagger scorned.
david mizner
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, Booman’s an embarrassment. It’s funny that this is one of Hamsher’s top alleged sins, being mean to Booman.
Hamsher’s record, compared to that of most progressive bloggers, is excellent. She was way out front in blasting the Catfood commission and she’s accurately predicted that a health care bill with a mandate and no PO would be politically unpopular.
gene108
What I think people fail to realize, which the folks at FDL have figured out, is if we stay home in enough numbers and / or vote Republican, the Republicans will enact the public option, which the people at FDL so desperately want.
Peter
Jane Hamsher doesn’t feel the need to make sense. She’s insulated in her self-constructed echo chamber and makes a living by vilifying anyone outside of it as ‘Them’, in opposition to the ‘Us’ within.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I seem to recall Hamsher being on TRMS back when she was a tad less drunk on her self-delusions
Lowkey
@Lab Partner: I smell it in the air of this thread, a new meme, a new tag…
“How Long Before John and Jane Bang?”
NOTICE: MUST CREDIT LOWKEY
TooManyJens
@david mizner:
Hush, now. People have a narrative to build. They don’t have time for confounding facts.
stuckinred
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: With a smirky-ass look on her face.
Dave
@Joe Beese:
Wait…you mean John supports Obama on some things and calls him out on others? Like a rational adult?? Heavens, no!!
Things would be much better if he just called Obama a Republican wanabee who got nothing done.
arguingwithsignposts
@david mizner:
I don’t consider that anywhere near one of her top alleged sins.
I’d consider co-signing anything with Grover Fucking Norquist to be her top not-alleged-at-all sins. And adding Cole to the JournoList when he explicitly stated he wasn’t on it is another one to add to the list.
Trying to go after Bernie Fucking Sanders is pretty high on the list too.
I think we could go a long way before getting into Booman’s fee-fees.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Sloegin:
Is there any other kind?
How can you enter the Kingdom of Heaven if you aren’t already wearing a crown-of-scorns?
SB Jules
It’s destructive?
Oh, I see, Firebaggers think it is. They’re destructive.
jl
If Obama is really playing 11 dimensional hyper chess, that is, if he were really really super smart. That is, if he follows my totally effing brilliant advice, then he would do the following.
Wait to see public response to benefits that are starting now, like no lifetime cap, no pre existing conditions for kids, children kept on parents’ policies until 26.
If public likes them, then start pushing for more reform, holding insurance companies responsible for not delivering on their promises. Of course without demonizing the poor widdle health care execs. Hate the game, not the players (which is economically the correct stance by the way).
I can say only one unambiguously good thing about the reform bill, but it is a big good thing: it pushes the US towards a more equitable and efficient system. The system is still unstable, and will tend to push individuals and small business out of the private market, and put pressure on quality of care for large group plans. But if enough people really value some of the new benefits, the only way to keep them is to return to HCR in a couple of years and agitate for either more competition from public plans, or real, serious Swiss style regulation of the private market (and Swiss style regulation would permit smaller scale regional entry by good public plans, BTW).
And hope that the public’s desire to keep the new benefits will be a bulwark against all the money and propaganda that the medical/financial/professional cartel industrial complex throws at the country. There might be chance to move towards a better, more stable system.
Edit: and push for construction of lots of cheap public primary care clinics as part of new stimulus.
arguingwithsignposts
I for one could do with a little less John/Jane/Grover/Whoever sexxxytime talk.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@Maxwel: Well, approval ratings(looking at Gallup or whomever) shows it to be a mixed bag. What’s also obvious is that people would have liked to see more. Meaning, that again, Congress is a behind the curve. I am not giving saying anything about the HCR/HIR one way or another, just pointing out what the polls say(that I’ve seen).
Poopyman
@david mizner:
That’s not one of her top sins in my book.
I used to read FDL fairly regularly, but since the election, more or less, I feel she’s gotten shrill, as have some of her other posters. I’ve seen less nuance and a much more strident partisan tone. And I don’t mean “partisan” equal “Democrat”. It now means “This is my opinion and if you don’t agree, screw you.”
She was dead on about the “veal pen”, the Catfood Commission, and other issues, but her tone is killing her credibility, IMO.
Culture of Truth
Bernie Sanders! [ whistles ]
this is bigger than I thought.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think the Lieberman in blackface thing was the first time I realized that the left blogosphere was suffering from what later came to be called ‘epistemic closure’.
Linda Featheringill
@Downpuppy:
Right! I was just thinking that they need to get a room.
Now, of course, John will have something to bitch about. Maybe I’ll watch TV tonight.
[Heh, heh.]
burnspbesq
@Martin:
Oh, and holy fuck – I’m 3 miles from the ocean and it’s 105 fucking degrees out at the end of September. What kind of hell is this?
It’s called September in OC. Just be glad you’re not in Brea.
Jay in Oregon
“Even the liberal John Cole…”
stuckinred
@burnspbesq: 75 in Athens!
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I guess she’s hoping that if she yells loud enough, people will get pissed off and elect more Republicans so that they will pass the kind of health reform she wants on the first try. Because we know it was people like John who kept Ben Nelson from thinking BIG.
taylormattd
@Eric F:
^This
Martin
@david mizner:
How is attacking a commission helpful? Ok, if the commission recommendations are accepted, sure, but that’s entirely different.
And so what if it’s politically unpopular. The GOP has been feeding the public politically popular ideas for 3 decades now. Guess what – it’s destroying the country. Sometimes politically unpopular is governmentally responsible. Or are we letting the Tea Party dictate what constitutes good policy these days?
slag
When I clicked that link, I honestly thought I was going to end up at either NRO or the American Spectator. How depressing is that?
Poopyman
@Linda Featheringill:
Yesterday he said he’d be blogging lightly today because he was having dental work done.
Looks like he picked the wrong day to give up the internets.
Jim
This is the same Hamsher who touts Bruce Fein around as an expert and is proud to say that he was REAGAN’S DEPUTY ASSOCIATE AG, PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE NIXON TO CHINA REDUX. But with you it’s “Oh, John Cole probably voted for Reagan, he’s clearly clueless!” Nevermind that Bruce Fein voted for Bush twice… he’s clearly a very important voice now.
srv
Why is it again that we expect Grover Norquist groupies to make sense?
taylormattd
@david mizner: And the biggest, most bitter booster of warmongering philanderer John Edwards shows up to claim only republicans and conservatives supported Obama.
Hey David, JRE LOST. St. John was a fucking phony that everybody who wasn’t involved in the left blogosphere hated. Get over it, and quit making common cause with PUMAs out of lingering rage.
Martin
@burnspbesq: I don’t ever remember it being anywhere near this hot, not without the winds blowing like a goddamn hair dryer, but it’s as still as a graveyard here.
Kerry Reid
@arguingwithsignposts:
Producing that piece-of-shit-on-celluloid known as Natural Born Killers was the beginning of the end. But I do think it’s great that, thanks to Jane’s indomitable political savvy (“Blackface! Who doesn’t love blackface?”), we get to savor the progressive agenda of Senator Lamont.
jl
@Martin:
How long have you lived in Southern California?
What you describe was so regular and expected by me, when I lived there, that I tried to get some time away from the place between the mid September and mid October.
Nick
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
You mistake her with being serious. If they passed health reform she wants, she’d be out of business.
She’s not smart enough or doesn’t have the ability to play the Jerome Armstrong “Obama’s too conservative, except when he’s too liberal” game.
stuckinred
@Kerry Reid: Adn don’t forget writing a book about how mean my man Ollie Stone was to her. Tropic Lighting baby!
bago
Is that a new relationship status?
Single
Married
It’s complicated
We blog together
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@stuckinred: 73 in Dallas. People are pulling out jackets here.
Linda Featheringill
BTW, I read some of the comments on FDL.
I’m not sure how to classify those people but they are not friends of mine. They are not comrades, either.
Tom Hilton
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Not since it became obvious to everyone that poor idiot Jane was batshit crazy. When she was pushing the public option she was on Maddow seems like twice a week or more, then when she went the Kill Bill route…oops, no more Maddow show for her.
the farmer
#62: she’s accurately predicted that a health care bill with a mandate and no PO would be politically unpopular.
Not really:
http://pollingreport.com/health.htm
*
arguingwithsignposts
@Linda Featheringill: you are much braver than I, comrade.
Earl Butz
@Martin: The hell that has me living less than a mile from the ocean, and had the high at 107.4 degrees at my house this morning. I don’t say this often, but thank God I’m at work.
BTD
I think it is an invalid point, but the argument is that fresh from being a Republican, Cole would be comfortable with a GOP-style health bill.
My comment assumes this is an honest question, not just an excuse to start a tit for tat.
bago
+3 mojitos
geg6
@david mizner:
And you forgot sucking Grover Norquist’s dick! Can’t forget that! That just seals her lefty bona fides!
Alice
Ugh, weird. I’ve never been part of the anti-Hamsher faction but her post really rubs me the wrong way.
Kerry Reid
@stuckinred:
Ah, I’d forgotten about that gem. If one didn’t know better, one might think that Jane’s political beliefs are formed by a drama-queen desire for vengeance rather than actually getting shit done. Seriously, does she have a single political victory on the scoreboard?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Totally OT: The owner of the company that makes the Segway died after falling off a cliff while riding one.
Edited: I originally said inventor, but that was wrong.
geg6
@arguingwithsignposts:
Word.
Just Some Fuckhead
The self-described “populist” was feeding dutiful JournoList scribes like Jon Chait, Matt Yglesias and John Cole cues to attack the “left” for raising justified concerns about both the bill
Et tu, John??
brendancalling
sigh.
as your resident firebagger, perhaps i can try to explain, although with the caveat that i am only trying to interpret.
I think what you have here is two things going on.
Number 1, jane is busting Cole’s balls, and why not considering he coined the term firebagger. John’s been a democrat for a year, maybe two. before that, a LONG time as a republican.
Number 2, it is no secret that the democratic health insurance reform is based on ideas the GOP proposed in the 1990s. Even Obama admits as much.
SO: jane is making fun of John, suggesting that, as someone not too far removed from the GOP (and as someone who was more of a 1990s republican than a 21st century republican), john didn’t see the same flaws in the bill that she did because in many ways he still holds some GOP ideas.
not saying that’s true or that i believe it, but that’s how I read it.
Also, Hamsher was right about the reforms, as much as no one wants to admit it.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
It sounds like Martin is somewhere on the Westside (lucky bastard) where, if fond memory serves me correctly, it was pretty unusual for it to get much above 90 thanks to the ocean breezes. I used to live in Mar Vista, two blocks from Santa Monica Airport.
Now I live in the frickin’ Valley where it’s going to be 10–frickin’–8 degrees today. Feh.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
Okay. Jane Hamsher is a self serving bitch who never had a useful thought in her fucking life.
The world’s greatest football radio announcer, Lon Simmons, who did the Forty Niners broadcasts for many years, used to say, when the Niners were losing three fourths of their games in the days before Joe Montana, “The only time the Niners are in real trouble is when they have the ball.”
The greatest enemy of progressive government today is not the Tea Party or the GOP, it’s the Asshole Left. This has been obvious for a long time now. Hamsher is one of the court jesters of that crowd.
stuckinred
@Kerry Reid: Beats me. All I know is they constantly tell her how pretty she is and how she’s the only one who tells the truth.
socraticsilence
@Martin:
A mandate was always going to be unpopular- but its also necessary- you know unless companies can exclude for pre-existing conditions.
stuckinred
@DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio: Speaking of bay area QB’s, George Blanda just died.
Tom Hilton
@david mizner:
Bullshit. What she predicted was that passing a bill with a mandate and no PO would be more unpopular than passing no bill at all. Does anyone seriously believe Democrats wouldn’t be in even worse shape if no HCR bill had passed?
Culture of Truth
He was not the inventor of Segway. He bought the company that makes and sells them.
taylormattd
@BTD:
Why would you assume that? It’s a snide, unecessary swipe in an acerbic rant. Given this woman sees fit to make common cause with the likes of Grover Norquist, she should be embarassed for this stupidity.
david mizner
@Poopyman:
That’s a fair criticism, but her tone is attributable in part to the vitriol and lies (she’s a PUMA, she teamed up with teabaggers to try to kill the health care bill) heaped on her, including in this thread. Her tone is genteel compared to the tone of her critics, who call her insane, racist, you name it.
By the way people talk about her, you’d think she hired Tim Geithner or escalated the war in Afghanistan or something.
But then that’s par for the course. If you’re a prominent critic of Obama, you’re going to get shat on, and the more you criticize the more you get shat on.
taylormattd
@brendancalling: you firebaggers joyously used the term to describe yourselves in your own comments sections before it was used here.
stuckinred
@david mizner: Fuck her, how’s that tone?
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@stuckinred:
Yeah I saw that. Even us Forty Niner fans admired Blanda even though he played for the hated Raiders. What a guy. RIP.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
I thought John was cheerleading the health care bill to move the Overton Window.
geg6
@david mizner:
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
She sucked Grover Norquist’s dick. In public. There is no amount of vitriol that can ever make up for that. And that, my friend, is no fucking lie.
slag
@brendancalling:
What exactly was Jane Hamsher right about that no one wants to admit? I’m honestly curious.
jl
@Mnemosyne: I lived on the Westside too. Yes it was unusual for it to get much above 90, but my memory is that it did do exactly that for at least a few days at least once a year, and almost always between mid September and mid October.
Miserable weather, especially when it was dead still, and going to the beach did not provide much relief.
Same weather pattern in Northern California, but we are tough as nails up here, yesiree, and don’t complain (and in SF, you are so glad to see the sun for the whole day for a whole week, you don’t complain).
Midnight Marauder
@brendancalling:
The rest is just too lame to even bother with.
david mizner
It’s funny that people are pretending that allying with Norquist for a specific cause is horrible or even unusual. It happens all the time, progressives teaming with right-wingers.
What people don’t like about it is that the target of this effort was Obama’s chief of staff — which proves my point. Her primary sin was to oppose Obama. It’d be nice if people could just admit that, but then if people could just admit that, this wouldn’t the blogsophere.
Martin
@jl: Since 91. Not forever, but I’m not new here either. 108 now. I’m really glad I don’t work construction.
stuckinred
Mr Cole haz arrived.
stuckinred
@david mizner: Bullshit
Corner Stone
@david mizner:
I’m just wondering how some of them feel about David Boies and Ted Olson?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@david mizner:
“prominent”? I thought we were talking about Jane Hamsher? @DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio:
I disagree with that. The Hamsherites are sometimes irritating, often comical, but there simply aren’t enough of them to make a difference. When all the screaming was over, did a single Democrat vote against the bill from the Left, so to speak? IIRC, all the Dem nos were from Blue Dogs. The real threat to Progressives comes from the Broderite-Blue Dog coalition.
slag
@david mizner:
Are you really this tired and cliche, or are you getting paid to repeat this asinine drivel?
licensed to kill time
@Earl Butz:
@Martin:
My house is on a small cliff right above the ocean, nothing between me and it, and it’s STILL hot as hell. It is weird, not a lick of a breeze. I’m used to the Santa Ana winds (well, as much as one can get used to them) but this is just downright odd.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
It hit 113 in downtown LA, a new record. So, yeah, this is a bit beyond the usual October heat.
Not to mention that we had one of the coldest Augusts on record and were on track for a cold September, so we haven’t had that usual slow buildup from 90 degrees to 100 degrees to 100+.
eemom
Look y’all, I know nobody listens to me — but when it comes to Hamsher being a total fucking fraud you really gotta trust Stuckinred. He personally oversaw her entire career on the blogosphere, and he knows whereof he speaks.
@stuckinred: Yeah, I haven’t seen that “Eureka” fella post in a while. Ditto with “Looseheadprop” — remember her? Another Jane-gem.
And then there was that “Biodun Iginla” stalker episode — boy did that make Jane look stoooooopid.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, trying to pick the most hateworthy between the Blue Dogs and the AssholeLeft is like trying to figure out which inflamed throbbing boil on your ass to lance first.
Martin
@Mnemosyne: I’m on the edge of Newport Beach now, and it’d get this hot 10 miles inland, but not here. The ocean would always keep us 10 degrees cooler *except* when the wind was blowing out to sea. Not doing that today.
Midnight Marauder
@david mizner:
Apparently, David, you missed the moment in time when Crazy Jane wrote an article entitled “Left/Right Populist Outrage Will Defeat Senate Health Care Bill.” Let’s take a look at some samples from this piece, shall we?
And, of course, the thrilling conclusion:
Please, david mizner, tell us about that “painfully obvious left/right transpartisan consensus” that is coalescing right now as the midterms near their home stretch.
EDIT: And photoshopping a picture of Joe Lieberman shucking and jiving in blackface is bound to get you labeled as a racist. Since, you know, most well-adjusted people avoid making unfathomably poor decisions like that. Since it could wind up having them being labeled as racial insensitive and all that. But I like how that is somehow just a ghastly occurrence for you, that people would dare label someone who unnecessarily photoshopped someone into having blackface as racist.
stuckinred
@eemom: He was weird. He sent me a key chain from Paris (or at least a Paris France key chain). I loved Christy., The Dragon and the Norske Flamethrower!
Ha. Biodun is still listed there!
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/author/biodun
asiangrrlMN
Seventy-plus here. Not happy about it–not happy at all. As for Hamsher, may I say that as a lifelong Democrat, I will take Cole and ED over her and her ilk any day of the month? One thing I appreciate about Cole is his ability to say he’s fucking wrong. And, I am a very progressive Democrat in ideas–it really fucking burns me up when the so-called progressive base hold purity tests–so fuck the shit that only centrists and ex-GOPers like Cole.
@jl: Uygur is an ex-GOPer? Why the fuck does that not surprise me? Just like Schultz, and to a certain extent, Cole. Loud, blustery, white guys who shout about everything. The reason I like Cole is because he recognizes when he’s being an ass and when he is wrong. Plus, he actually gives a shit about other people/animals.
@arguingwithsignposts: Ahem. Weren’t you supposed to post something for me?
Mnemosyne
@david mizner:
So was that why she called Erik Erikson an “honest broker” who deserved to be a CNN pundit? Just defending him as another honest Obama critic?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Corner Stone: Except this wasn’t Roosevelt teaming up with Stalin to defeat the Germans. It would be like teaming up with Japan because you don’t think the French are being aggressive enough.
brendancalling
@Midnight Marauder:
you sure that was cherry picked from FDL? cus i saw it here first.
again, I’m not saying i agree with hamsher (and john’s retort above shows the guy can speak for himself). I was responding to Doug’s “i don’t get it.”
@slag: “What exactly was Jane Hamsher right about that no one wants to admit?” the fact that the health insurance reforms have not grown more popular over time, and many democrats are running away from, not on, health insurance reform.
@taylormattd: indeed. I’ve always believed in taking unfavorable nicknames and flipping them into a empowering label. or as i like to say “you think i give a fuck what you think of me? kiss my ass.”
JPL
Why is Jane rehashing the health care bill now? Most of us think that just like social security and medicare it will be improved over time. The fact that insurance companies can no longer drop a person because they get sick is an accomplishment in itself. Is the bill perfect, no but if we keep electing democrats it will be improved upon.
When Christy left there was no longer for me to read the site. I guess I haven’t missed much.
When she wrote about the former republican John Cole, I laughed. Was it meant as a slur?
jl
@asiangrrlMN:
“Loud, blustery, white guys who shout about everything.”
That is the natural order of things, as far as us loud blustery white guys are concerned. It helps us get our way, and reduces the amount of diligence and hard work required in how we conduct ourselves.
You seem to have a problem with that. I’m shocked shocked shocked, disillusioned and crestfallen. Are you a communist or something?
Edit: Ooops. I am not cresfallen, I am outraged! For a moment there I forgot the loud white guy code of ethics. Sorry. Won’t happen again.
jl
@Mnemosyne: That is too hot for the basin. You win.
asiangrrlMN
@david mizner: That’s utter crap. I am a lifelong Democrat, and I would choose Cole over Hamsher any time. She is a Mean Girl who wouldn’t know what to do if she got her way on all the issues because then she wouldn’t be able to whine about how everyone is so mean to her. She is not the victim in this scenario, and she is not doing all this out of some purity of the soul. As for Norquist–I don’t care if it’s done all the time. I will call it out every time. To me, she is saying by any means necessary, and I simply do not agree with that.
And, I am fucking sick and tired of the so-called progressive mostly white base saying that anyone who likes Cole is a centrist or an ex-Republican. I have been a hardcore lefty all my fucking life, and you do not get to define progressive for me. You want to feel all holier-than-thou, go right ahead and nail yourself on that cross. Just don’t expect to get supported for it.
Jane Hamsher is a bitch (and it takes one to know one, so I know of which I speak) who is in it for the personal glory.
@jl: Damn right you forgot! No crestfallen for you, Sir! Nothing but blustery outrage for you! And, yes, I am a sociaIist. Why do you ask?
socraticsilence
@asiangrrlMN:
Seriously- she wanted to take down Bernie Sanders there’s literally nothing to add to that- she thought a self-described Socialist lacked the purity necessary to properly help the people- you know because he voted for HCR after he got millions for Community Health Centers.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
@licensed to kill time:
It’s not that odd. This is exactly the time of year that these heat waves typically come and set the highest temps of the year. The sea breeze breaks down and high pressure pumps up the temperatures. Seen it many times over there.
Santa Monica native, in case it matters.
jl
@asiangrrlMN: Ummm… I am not really a loud, blustery, white guy who shouts about everything, I just play one on blog comments.
You scared me, you meanie, so I will scurry away back to work…
slag
@brendancalling:
Wow. Really? This is what Jane Hamsher was right about that no one wants to admit?
No. I’m pretty sure this is what Jane Hamsher was right about that no one else gives a shit about. Wanna know what some people do give a shit about? Listen close, and I’ll tell you…
IMPROVING OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!
And HCR did that.
Democrats may be flailing right now, but it’s not because of HCR. It’s because they’re generally incompetent weasels who don’t do nearly the amount of good in the world that they should. But HCR was one good thing that they did. And they did it in spite of Jane Hamsher and her ilk. She’s on the wrong side of this and many other things.
arguingwithsignposts
Someone can correct me if i’m wrong, but wasn’t it in the midst of the health care debate that Cole busted his shoulder? And wrote a long post about how lucky he was to have health insurance, and single-payer would be the ultimate?
Did I just dream that?
brendancalling
@slag:
i think whether anything’s improved or not remains to be seen. health INSURANCE reform is not the same thing as health CARE reform.
i’ve experienced single-payer first hand, as my first-and-only-born is a canadian. when we passed health INSURANCE reform, his mom called up to poke fun. She compares our reforms to a retarded child learning how to use a fork, while other kids his age are working on reading and math.
So if you think HIR is great, that’s fine. me, I’m not too cool with further weakening reproductive rights. i’m not too cool with telling a sick woman who needs to enter the high risk pools “no abortion for you”, but hey if you’re cool with forcing women with AIDS to carry a baby to term, that’s your deal. I’m not too cool with subsidies that far so short of the mark that if my employer dumps our health insurance at work that I’ll have to take the IRS penalty, because i can’t afford to participate in the exchanges. I’m not too cool with high deductibles that bankrupt me when i sue the insurance.
but that’s just me. if you think these are good things, that’s cool. But hear, let me tell YOU a secret. Listen close and i’ll tell you:
I DON’T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK.
socraticsilence
@arguingwithsignposts:
No, no that didn’t happen see um… he was telling us to fight against Bernie Sanders and work hand in hand with Grover Norquist right I mean that must have been John.
Lab Partner
Because it is personal with her. Because she wants to say “I told you so” over and over and over again. Because, deep down inside, she cannot ever forgive that people would not accept her dogmatic vision of health care politics, much less accept, for the time being, a compromise. She posted some words on a blog and thought the world would change. When it didn’t she didn’t adjust, she dug in deeper.
As political players change and health care events unfold we will continue to get updates from Hamsher telling us how stupid we were to disagree with her. And she won’t stop updating us until she either has everybody agreeing with her, or until she has burned all her bridges and nobody is listening to her.
slag
@brendancalling:
Awesome. We’ve found a point of mutual agreement. I feel like we accomplished something here.
arguingwithsignposts
@david mizner:
Who’s pretending. It *is* horrible, and it *is* unusual for progressives to team up with Grover Fucking Norquist, who is one of the root causes of most of what ails the U.S. in terms of fiscal matters at this point in time.
I don’t care if she was partnering with Grover Fucking Norquist to adopt legislation to save kittehs and puppehs, because somewhere in there, Grover Fucking Norquist would be looking for a way to drown them in a bathtub.
Jamie
Hmm, part of the reason we don’t have a good health care system now is some folk like Jane made their ideal system the enemy of an improvement on the present system (which is what Obama passed).
Marmot
@david mizner:
Aw, what the heck.
No. Flat wrong. Teaming up with Norquist is a bad idea all the time, anytime.
And, “if ‘people’ could just admit that”? Who’s that?
arguingwithsignposts
@asiangrrlMN:
Just noticed you showed up. Went to ER this morning about 7 am.
I have a possibly fractured radial head fracture on my elbow (x-rays unclear, but “abnormal”). I have to see an ortho doc on Wednesday for probably more x-rays. arm in a sling, pain meds, stayed home from work today.
Left Coast Tom
@brendancalling:
I voted for Single Payer when it was on the ballot in California in the 1990s. I was one of less than 25% of the public who did that.
How about putting Single Payer back on the ballot in some reasonably blue state and actually getting popular support for it, then come back with that topic.
BTD
@taylormattd:
Why would I assume that? Cuz DougJ is a pretty sharp guy. I find it hard to believe he does not understand the argument.
arguingwithsignposts
@brendancalling:
He says at the end of a lengthy comment in reply to a comment on a blog. oh, irony, we hardly knew ye.
martha
@asiangrrlMN: You go girl. Purity tests are pure, unadulterated BS. It’s only 64 in Madison, you’ve be happier here today!
Marmot
@brendancalling:
Uh-huh. But you appear to have been pretty cool with the idea that — in the absence of your favorite reform plan — health insurance costs would continue to skyrocket, leaving millions more without coverage with each passing year of debate.
Just what is your objection to passing an imperfect reform and fixing it later? I’m assuming here that the odds of being able to fix it later are better than the odds of your favorite reform becoming law. Feel free to disagree.
DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.
@BTD:
I’m not 100% sure what Hamsher is implying. Is it the JournoList angle or just that John used to be a Republican? Is she saying John is a mole?
Lauren
@eemom: “Ditto with “Looseheadprop”—remember her? Another Jane-gem.”
Looseheadprop turned into this.
brendancalling
@Marmot:
hey marmot?
“But you appear to have been pretty cool with the idea that—in the absence of your favorite reform plan—health insurance costs would continue to skyrocket, leaving millions more without coverage with each passing year of debate.”
<a href="http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-09-26/health/ct-biz-0927-open-enrollment-20100926_1_john-vlajkovic-annual-worker-tab-premium-and-out-of-pocket-costs"/ya don't say:
So please, spare me the happy crappy about insurance costs continuing to skyrocket, because even with the insurance reforms, they are skyrocketing. And, we’re seeing some companies pre-emptively drop their child-only policies. And we’re seeing drug companies jack prices to get ahead of the game. Nifty how that works when a for-profit enterprise is left to run the health “care” system.
My objection to an imperfect -reform-and-fixing-it-later is that these things typically DON’T get fixed. The PATRIOT Act was going to fixed. Warrantless wiretapping was going to be fixed. Please, spare me the bullshit about fixing things, because we both know there’s no guarantee of that. Shit, even the “fix” to medicare part D is so weak as to be practivally meaningless: seniors get a whole $250, a monumental FIVE PERCENT, toward a $5000 donut hole. Wheee, we’re riding high now!
Go play your game of punch the hippie with someone who doesn’t hit back: I’m not taking lectures from someone who’s cool with setting women’s rights back a half century as a price for possibly-cheaper insurance. what does that say about you?
Aside to left coast Tom: I actually support those efforts to establish single payer in the states. We have a similar effort underway in PA (healthcare4allpa). I believe there’s a movement in Oregon.
Sapheriel
the bullshit about the heritage foundation and principles is complete and utter fucking quote-mining. actually, it’s worse than that. there is no bragging, heritage is not mentioned in the email part that came from pelosi, but only in the quoted op-ed, and only in connection with the insurance exchange, which i don’t think constitutes the whole bill.
but hamsher turns that into “Pelosi: Heritage Foundation Designed Health Care Bill”. what an asshole move.
Parrotlover77
the firebagger are approaching a point of insanity that nearly surpasses teabagger! the comments on the fdl article sound like a republican parody of firebaggers. its like a right wing guy started doing a stephen colbert schtick of the fdl crowd, but thought, nah not crazy enough, so he took some shrooms before his next blog comment.
i was at a house party for my local congrssional rep last night (woot brad miller nc-13) and he was bombarded with fdl talking points. he would then point out the actual law (such as financial assistance up to 3-4 times the poverty rate, the facts of the high risk pools, limits on fees, expenses, and so on) and then that would be followed with, “how come i never heard about that before?”
AGH! thanks fdl, for keeping our side as ignorant and infllamed at our reps as the average teabagger.
awesome!
Odie Hugh Manatee
beltane:
Fix’t?
Watch out peeps, Calamity Jane and her Ass Hamsters of Doom are on the warpath! Clench ’em if ya got ’em because once they get in they burrow deep and then dynamite is the only thing that will dislodge them.
Malron
It fascinates me that Jane Hamsher even has a following when you observe how woefully incompetent her writing skills are. Her posts are full of accusation and hyperventilation, but very little accreditation.
Malron
I hereby certify that anyone who uses the term “punching hippies” in a blog post or comment be relegated to the dustbin of idiots.
asiangrrlMN
@arguingwithsignposts: OK. Possible fracture is much better than broken. Keep me updated, please, and take it easy.