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You are here: Home / Politics / Get up, get into it, get involved

Get up, get into it, get involved

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You read this blog, presumably, so you already know that I’m a misanthropic agoraphobe. I don’t like calling strangers to tell them to vote and I certainly don’t like knocking on strangers’ doors and telling them who to vote for.

But I did some phone-banking last night for a nearby Democratic Congressman, Dan Maffei, who is facing a challenge from a teahadist (I think Maffei will crush her, but who knows in this environment). You can do this, too, as unpleasant as it is.

The people in the Peter Daou/FDL wing of the blogosphere are often very good about doing all this shit, to their credit. There’s no reason you can’t be too.

If you’re in or near a competitive district or state, then get up, get into it, get involved, like the man says.

Reader Interactions

134Comments

  2. 2.

    JPL

    OT…“The latest candidate to jump into the U.S. Senate race here in South Carolina is Nathalie Dupree, best known as a Southern cookbook writer and celebrity chef.”

    Shoot, she’s better than Alvin and who wants shut the government down DeMint.

  5. 5.

    Robert Waldmann

    Yeah show those firebaggers that Balloon juicers can work even harder for Democrats than they can.

    Petty rivalry aint pretty, but competing in get out the vote efforts is more constructive than complaining about who is whining more about sniping and backstabbing in the circular firing squad (just try to call up a visual image of that metaphor when you are tired of cold calling).

    I’d do it myself except I don’t live in the USA. Oh an I have a bad back and the sun was in my eyes.

  7. 7.

    geg6

    Been doing it for weeks now for Sestak and Onorato. They tried to make me do it for Altmire, too, but I told them no fucking way. And since I’m a volunteer, that they couldn’t fire me. Tee hee.

  9. 9.

    Brachiator

    But I did some phone-banking last night for a nearby Democratic Congressman.

    Good on you, mate.

    OT: See Rahm Run:

    President Obama will give his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, a send-off Friday as Mr. Emanuel officially announces his departure from the West Wing to run for mayor of Chicago, officials familiar with the decision said.
    __
    The two officials, who declined to be named in advance of the official announcement, confirmed that Mr. Obama plans to name Pete Rouse, a senior adviser, to replace Mr. Emanuel. Mr. Rouse has been at the president’s side since Mr. Obama arrived in Washington nearly six years ago as a senator, serving as his chief of staff.

    Also, too, RIP Tony Curtis.

  11. 11.

    Lev

    I’ve been calling for Jerry Brown, Barbara Boxer and pretty much the only endangered Dem Rep in the state, Jerry McNerney. He’s one of the good guys, a non-Blue Dog in a 50-50 D-R district who didn’t sign the tax cut letter to Pelosi and voted for HCR and cap-and-trade despite representing a marginal seat, plus he knows quite a bit about energy and he’s a science/math guy by education and training. Actually, you guys might consider putting him on your ActBlue thingy up there. The more guys like McNerney survive the election, the better off we’ll be.

  12. 12.

    Pam C/femlaw

    You can find OFA phonebanks and canvasses all over the country for GOTV to the voters we most need to reach this cycle.

    my.barackobama.com

    And you can call online from home call.barackobama.com

    Because the OFA wing of the nonblogosphere is pretty good at this too. :-).

    And thanks so much for making calls – every one helps.

  13. 13.

    Hugin & Munin

    I see that the Juicebagger class clown is trying to do something constructive for a change.

    Protip: Try not to insult or belittle the people you are trying to motivate. Tends to work better than the usual MO.

  14. 14.

    Mark S.

    What the hell kind of article is this? I guess Eliot Cohen decided to pretend what various people (such as Mullah Omar) think of the book, such as:

    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: “I come from a culture that understands storytelling. The president’s advisers do not understand that a convincing tale can have only one plot. They say, on the one hand, that this book shows the president as brilliant, in command, dominating — and then they tell a story of his military boxing him in, denying him any real choice, until he yields to their wishes. I believe the latter story. I do not know how smart he is, but I know that he cannot impose his will. They think he is wise; I think he is weak.”

    Netanyahu agrees with his colleague’s assessment.

    Cohen congratulates himself for penning “the following fictional interior monologues, as plausible as any recorded by the author of “Obama’s Wars.” Who in God’s name thought this would be a good thing to publish?

  16. 16.

    Mark S.

    @valdivia:

    From the bottom of the column, he’s a professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University. At first I really thought these were quotes from Woodward’s book.

  18. 18.

    Earl Butz

    I prefer to sit in a corner and cry about the myriad ways that Obama has failed me. It’s less effort and the self-pity makes me feel really good and self-righteous inside.

  22. 22.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Is it the imagined menace on the left that is going to cost Democrats in November? Or is it the fact that Obama lost independents? Just asking.

  23. 23.

    Martin

    We’re working to unseat our congressman, a birther-curious Randian. I don’t think we’re going to win, but we’re at least going to make him work for it. I like our candidate a lot (family friend), so this is doubly easy to do.

    We’re also working to flip a state assembly seat from R to D. This we’re pretty sure we will win (the teabagger opponent vanished from view a few months ago) and boosting the number of Dems in the state legislature is hugely important.

    I’ll jump in for Brown and Boxer if things look tight, but right now they appear to be in good shape.

  24. 24.

    Redshift

    Hear, hear! As a non-agoraphobe, I’ve been out knocking doors for several weeks now. I need to do a bit more work in getting my neighbors off their butts to help me, but every bit counts.

    And to repeat something I’ve mentioned in some previous threads, don’t sign a volunteer sheet or call/email a campaign and then sit back and wait for them to ask. Find out where a campaign office is and just go. If they don’t call you, it doesn’t mean they don’t need you. Remember that every campaign is a short-term organization put together on the fly mostly by volunteers, and lots of stuff falls through the cracks.

    Plus, if you show up on your own, you’ve already made a contribution to the campaign by saving them the trouble of having a coordinator contact you. And when you volunteer, be sure to have your calendar with you so you can schedule your next day, and make that same contribution again!

  25. 25.

    geg6

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I’d say neither. It’s the Blue Dogs in both houses of Congress that may have cost the Dems the election. If not for them, there would be a lot more for the left-leaning Indies to be feeling warm and fuzzy about.

    And I think that anything said about polls of Indies these days has to take into account the huge number of Republicans who are either Teabaggers who don’t want to be called Republicans even though they are and actual Republicans who are too embarrassed by their party to call themselves that.

  26. 26.

    suzanne

    I’ve been volunteering all summer for Harry Mitchell (AZ-5… he’s the dude who sent J. D. Hayworth packing) and, more recently, Terry Goddard, who would love to send the illustrious Jan Brewer directly into retirement. Harry’s not *quite* as progressive as I’d like, but is a good guy… taught government and civics at a local high school for years before becoming the principal. Then was the mayor of Tempe, then a state senator. Terry is our current AG, and a former mayor of Phoenix. Have met them both personally, and will be very disappointed if at least one of them doesn’t pull it out. I figure this is what I can do ILO donating cash.

  27. 27.

    Redshift

    @Martin:

    We’re working to unseat our congressman, a birther-curious Randian. I don’t think we’re going to win, but we’re at least going to make him work for it. I like our candidate a lot (family friend), so this is doubly easy to do.

    Definitely a worthwhile effort. One case I’m familiar with — Tom Davis retired largely because he had a challenger in ’06 who did a lot better against him than anyone expected (or than anyone had previously) and he saw the writing on the wall. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

  28. 28.

    Paula

    @Joe Beese:

    Wouldn’t Znet be a more hospitable place for you?

    Just sayin’. I mean, you can do what you like but you don’t have to waste your time @ Balloon Juice.

  29. 29.

    Punchy

    While we cant get great HCR, got watered down FIRE reform, and will never get climate-change legy, at least Congress is serious about……..THOSE LOUD COMMERCIALS! Unfuckinreal

  30. 30.

    Davis X. Machina

    misanthropic agoraphobe

    Reminds me of the joke about the dyslexic agnostic, who stayed up all night worrying if there really was a dog….

  31. 31.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    It’s independents. I don’t take the imaginary menace on the left very seriously, I just want to give them credit for generally working hard to get candidates elected.

  32. 32.

    Comrade Kevin

    You know what’s a pretty good indicator that someone is an obnoxious, hypocritical twit? When they use the “word” “protip”.

  33. 33.

    ChrisNYC

    I canvassed in NY-01 last weekend. If the Dems lost the House on the basis of a NY seat, I’d be pissed.

    Anyway, it was great, heartening — but, then, I actually like talking to people about their votes. Dems are going to vote there. A couple of independents volunteered that the Tea Party people were scaring them — the GOP had a nasty primary in the district. I also met this little old lady (grandmother to a couple of sisters living together and raising their kids) who sends OFA $25 a month. Highly recommend it.

  34. 34.

    Ranjit Suresh

    Got to love how Rahm is abandoning ship just before the mid-term elections. Of course, we’re not supposed to blame him for anything. He’s obviously done a stellar job as chief of staff, which is why he’s not sticking around for the fall-out when the Republicans seize control of Capitol Hill.

  35. 35.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Is it the imagined menace on the left that is going to cost Democrats in November? Or is it the fact that Obama lost independents? Just asking.

    It’s mostly independents. In many cases, the Democrats are still underwater without the enthusiasm gap. For example, Feingold is being slaughtered, but close the gap he’s tied. He shouldn’t be either.

  36. 36.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @geg6: So Blue Dogs are going down. Is it because of the old adage that if you get to choose between a Republican and a Democrat that votes like a Republican, the voter will generally choose the real deal? I know in my district Glenn Nye is probably going down. His voting record over the last two years was pretty much straight Republican.

    ETA: I should point out the only reason he got elected in his reliably Republican district is because Obama brought out a lot of new, first time, particularly African-American voters that voted D down ticket. We’ll prolly see ’em again if Obama runs in 2012.

  37. 37.

    MikeJ

    Even if you live in a safe CD, don’t forget the statehouse. Local candidates for the lege need all the help they can get, and one person can have a big impact. I’ve been negligent this year (so far), but in years past I’ve personally talked to significant percentages of voters in a LD. Most state governments are even more dysfunctional than DC. Help send the least bad person to the capital.

  38. 38.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Nick:

    For example, Feingold is being slaughtered, but close the gap he’s tied.

    Yeah, but it doesn’t make any sense that the imagined villains of the left would be refusing to vote for Feingold, of all people.

    It makes more sense that it’s the Obots causing all this pain. They’ve been complaining about Feingold for a while now (and bitterly in some cases) because he has opposed Obama on a few key things. And let’s be honest, a lot of Obots won’t be voting because Obama isn’t actually on a ballot.

  39. 39.

    KG

    Ok, here’s one for you folks, I’m in California-42, Gary Miller (one of the most corrupt bastards in Congress) is the incumbent. He’s actually got a challenger this time. But I’m pretty sure, reading the guy’s website that he’s a Democratic version of a Tea Partier. Other than moving (which I plan on doing by the end of the year), what the fuck?

  40. 40.

    R-Jud

    @Ranjit Suresh:

    Got to love how Rahm is abandoning ship just before the mid-term elections.

    … because he wants to be the mayor of Chicago. Had Daley not announced he was quitting, Rahm would be sticking around. At least for a bit longer.

  41. 41.

    geg6

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Well, based on my own district, my Blue Dog (Jason Fucking Asshole Altmire) will probably win in a landslide. But the population demographics here kill any chance of ever getting a true liberal or progressive.

    You’re talking about a place with a majority population over the age of 50, a college graduation rate of less than 30%, and a high school dropout rate of about 40%. Beaver County is more like the Pennsylbama parts of the state than you’d expect for a place less than 30 miles from Pittsburgh. Anecdotally, I am over the age of 50 and find that I’m usually the youngest person at my polling place during primaries and mid-terms.

    It’s weird because when I was younger and the steel industry still existed in a big way here, this was a pretty damn liberal place. And the old Teabaggers who have now dragged us so far to the right were the people who were voting for those liberal Dems back in those days. But once Reagan got elected, these people miraculously became Reagan Democrats even though it was Reagan policies that killed the industry here and caused them to lose their jobs and pensions. I attribute it to racism and fear. They loved them that welfare queen rhetoric.

    The Teabaggers are strong here. But Jason Altmire panders to them as if he was Rand Paul, so I expect him to win.

  43. 43.

    Origuy

    @MikeJ: Next year is redistricting; the state legislatures will be drawing the lines for state and congressional districts. This will have a big impact down the road.

  44. 44.

    Nathanael

    Maffei’s very much worth supporting, thank you.

    Agreed with everyone else who says state legislatures are crucial due to redistricting.

  45. 45.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @R-Jud: Emmanuel won’t be going away in any case. He is Obama’s friend and Obama respects his opinions, for better or worse.

  46. 46.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Yeah, but it doesn’t make any sense that the imagined villains of the left would be refusing to vote for Feingold, of all people.

    Because it’s not, it’s moderate Democrats causing him pain, it’s the centrists you people seem to think don’t exist. I’m sure more Democrats will be “standing on principal” once Feingold and Grayson are begging Obama for an ambassadorship in January.

  48. 48.

    geg6

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    You know, I think Emmanuel is an ass and a really, really bad politician, but I can see why Obama likes him and values his point of view. Doesn’t mean he’ll listen to his strategery, but I think he might have some insights worth listening to.

  49. 49.

    Admiral_Komack

    Warning: Off-topic.

    Michael Wolff’s article and my response:

    http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/555/what-do-we-do-with-barack-obama.html

    “Who likes the president?”

    I do.

    I voted for an adult, not a drama queen.

    Thanks to the President, we have health care reform, financial regulation reform, help for small businesses, student loan reform, for starters.

    I knew when he was elected, it would not be easy.

    But he has been successful.

    But I am sorry you are dissappointed.

    Perhaps if you use a shovel, and put your back into it, you can dig through that pile of shit called your article, and uncover that pony you thought you were promised.

    Thank you for your time.

  50. 50.

    slag

    I don’t like calling strangers to tell them to vote and I certainly don’t like knocking on strangers’ doors and telling them who to vote for.

    I’ve found calling people to be much less enjoyable than knocking on doors. Knocking on doors brings me further into neighborhoods that I’ve often just passed through. I’ve found it interesting to see the huge diversity of doorsteps out there in the world. This surprised me.

    It takes all kinds, I guess, and being a serious misanthrope, myself, I never thought I would prefer knocking doors to calling people on the phone from the comfort and safety of my humble abode. But it is the case.

    So, if anyone out there hasn’t yet broken the wall between the yammering about the state of the world today and the putting your feet on the ground trying to actually improve the state of the world today, then you should! You never know what you’re missing until you try it.

    ETA: This is a good panel discussion from the Applied Research Center: http://www.arc.org/content/blogcategory/63/203/. I found it very informative and worth the time.

  51. 51.

    Pennsylvanian

    Honestly, phone banking really isn’t intimidating and can be very rewarding. 99% of people are nice or at least civil, even if they don’t like your candidate. It feels good to connect with voters out there who ARE serious about voting and support your candidate. Also, you never have to look back and say, “I should have done something”. I’ll never go back to that after Bush-Gore.

    Grab a mop, people!

  54. 54.

    KCinDC

    In DC, we have no voting representation in the Congress that likes to overrule our local laws (especially when it’s controlled by Republicans), so our DC for Democracy group hesitates not at all to get involved in races outside of DC. After careful consideration, we’ve decided the most effective use of our efforts is to take trips on October weekends to Pennsylvania’s 7th congressional district, the one being vacated by Joe Sestak for his Senate run.

    There we can simultaneously help Sestak (Senate), Onorato (governor, which is important for the upcoming redistricting), and Lentz (House). For more information, see our site, and if you’d like to throw us a few bucks to help pay for the trips, we’ve got an ActBlue page for that.

  55. 55.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Nick: Are you shitting me? It’s the steely-eyed realists that Obama has been pandering to that are leaving Democrats high and dry? Jesus.

  56. 56.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    It makes no sense to say that Democrats of any stripe are causing this pain, IMHO. Every poll I’ve seen says it’s the swing in indies that is hurting.

    A fucked up economy makes indies vote against the party in power. This stuff isn’t that complicated.

  57. 57.

    martha

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Um, it’s not the Obots or the lefties up here that are causing Russ pain. It’s that he’s running against a guy who married a billionaire’s daughter and he’s spending the fortune to buy the seat for the old fart billionaire. And the teabaggers. And cheeseheads can be just as stupid as other people. Morans.

  59. 59.

    Kerry Reid

    Canvassed on Sunday for the straight Dem ticket. People weren’t horrible (given the lingering Blago damage we’re contending with), and a few were really happy to find out that vote by mail is a whole lot easier in Illinois now.

  62. 62.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Are you shitting me? It’s the steely-eyed realists that Obama has been pandering to that are leaving Democrats high and dry? Jesus.

    Seeing as the Democrats up for reelection have fucked Obama over repeatedly for the past two years, why does this surprise you?

  64. 64.

    FreeAtLast

    Forgot to mention that there a special 2:1 matching contribution program until midnight – at least for Sestak, maybe for some others as well.

  66. 66.

    Paula

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    It’s interesting that you make a conversion from “centrists” to “the moniker that you give the people on this board” just because they don’t agree with you on strategy.

    But, categories are slippery like that, eh? Choose what definition you want when convenient.

  67. 67.

    skippy

    balloon juice giving daou/fdl some credit for something good? is there ice skating in hell now, as well?

    seriously, that was big of you, dougj, good on ya.

  68. 68.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Paula:

    But, categories are slippery like that, eh?

    It was you fucks that invented the categories. I’m just taking it to its illogical extreme for giggles.

  69. 69.

    Paula

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I’d believe that if I thought you had a sense of humor.

    Why do you spend so much time here if you think it’s such fuckery? Don’t you have to go defend the Progressive Cause ™ against the mindless hordes or something?

    EDIT. Oh, ooops, is that what you think you’re doing here? Awwwwww ….

  70. 70.

    Bob Loblaw

    @Nick:

    I still don’t understand this conflict. So they picked Rahm Emmanuel to be their boogeyman in the White House? He was only the fucking Chief of Staff, aka the second most powerful person in executive governance. He’s in the room for every single decision made.

    You, and others like you, picked Jane Hamsher as your monster under the bed. She runs a blog.

    She runs a blog. What’s next, saying Bob Kuttner is worse than Joe McCarthy?

  71. 71.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Paula: Why don’t you make a list of who is allowed to comment here and what they are allowed to write? That will make it easier for all of us.

  73. 73.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Paula: If you can’t handle disagreement, maybe it’s you that should move along. As early as I can remember (going back to sometime in 2006) this place has thrived on disagreement.

  74. 74.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    @skippy:

    My view of the FDLers is more benign than many others around here. I know a lot of these people in real life and they are very committed to their cause. I just don’t agree with them on a lot of important issues.

  78. 78.

    kay

    I just think about how disappointed Republicans will be, and that’s motivation enough.

    But I’m shallow. You-all are good government types :)

    This is good news.

  79. 79.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    @KDP:

    I doubt that many really want to see Republicans take control of Congress.

  80. 80.

    John Cole

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Are they an imagined menace or are they taking down the President? They claim both on different days. The latest Daou piece had them taking down the President.

    It’s so difficult keeping up with you true progressives and your positions.

  81. 81.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I know in my district Glenn Nye is probably going down. His voting record over the last two years was pretty much straight Republican.

    Peninsula in da houzze! Nye isn’t my Rep but I get his ads. He sucks on a stick. But I’ve got Wittman, so I’m no better off.

  83. 83.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @John Cole:

    Are they an imagined menace or are they taking down the President? They claim both on different days.

    Well, obviously we have some work to do in the monolithic messaging department.

  84. 84.

    FlipYrWhig

    @DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.: It just seems kind of, well, stupid, to conclude that if what you really want is stronger, ballsier liberal/progressive/left politics in this country, that the way to accomplish it is to do whatever it is that FDL and PCCC think they’re doing. Being pushy and impatient is fine; being pushy and impatient _and never claiming victory_ strikes me as a dead end.

    With the health care bill, for example, it seems like the liberal critics _could_ have said, “It wasn’t everything we hoped, but look at what we fought for and managed to get into the final package,” like the Sanders stuff and the larger low-income subsidies. “Our efforts made the bill better, and you can thank us later.” Instead Jane wants to keep saying that it sucks, was weak, was a debacle… what purpose does that serve, either for advancing the issue or for advancing your own clout?

    IMHO the sad fact is that there aren’t enough self-identified liberals to stage a palace coup to take over the Democratic party, and even if there were, the media that desperately wants to prove it’s not liberal would never allow a hypothetical Liberal Tea Party to get any traction. Your choice for the foreseeable future is to have a smaller, purer party that doesn’t control anything, or a bigger, squishier and indistinct party that fights with itself a lot and occasionally patches together a majority. I’m not sure it’s possible to make a Democratic party that is simultaneously bigger and more liberal.

  85. 85.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @FlipYrWhig:

    ith the health care bill, for example, it seems like the liberal critics could have said, “It wasn’t everything we hoped, but look at what we fought for and managed to get into the final package,” like the Sanders stuff and the larger low-income subsidies. “Our efforts made the bill better, and you can thank us later.” Instead Jane wants to keep saying that it sucks, was weak, was a debacle… what purpose does that serve, either for advancing the issue or for advancing your own clout?

    Maybe they think it sucks, was weak, was a debacle?

  86. 86.

    General Stuck

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Well, obviously we have some work to do in the monolithic messaging department.

    You are doing your part dude, as we once again descend into another fuckhead angst thread. Are you trying to boor us into submission?

  87. 87.

    Suck It Up!

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    It makes more sense that it’s the Obots causing all this pain. They’ve been complaining about Feingold for a while now (and bitterly in some cases) because he has opposed Obama on a few key things. And let’s be honest, a lot of Obots won’t be voting because Obama isn’t actually on a ballot.

    complete nonsense. you true progressives shamelessly contradict yourselves and think no one notices. Obama’s supporters have been telling YOU folks to get over your disappointments for a few weeks and support the Democrats, even the blue dogs. Now you have some nerve to write this trash that WE are the ones causing pain for Feingold? We’re the ones that are going to stay home?

    My only complaint that involves Feingold is the pass he gets from progressives when he doesn’t fall in line. Total hypocrites.

  88. 88.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    You are doing your part dude, as we once again descend into another fuckhead angst thread. Are you trying to boor us into submission?

    Sorry, Stuck. It wasn’t my intention to upset your boorishness. Perhaps you should look into cleek’s pie filter so it doesn’t happen again. Obviously I cannot tell when I’m crossing the line.

  89. 89.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Suck It Up!: Why would so called true progressives fail to rally to the cause of true progressive Feingold? That doesn’t even make any sense. Clearly it’s you folks failing him.

  90. 90.

    General Stuck

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    nah, don’t believe in pie filters, I do have a rubber mallet to brain myself with to regulate the drool factor after reading your comments. I will just have to suffer like everyone else, until the firebagger shift changes. Carry on soldier.

  92. 92.

    FlipYrWhig

    Damn, FYWP ate my comment.

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Maybe they think it sucks, was weak, was a debacle?

    Even so, if your primary purpose is building a movement, you’d be better served claiming victory than bashing the final result. I’m sure pro-lifers want more sweeping language than Hyde or Stupak, but they got to claim a victory in HCR by pushing that without Stupak they wouldn’t vote for the bill. (The pro-life rank-and-filers who weren’t satisfied with Stupak’s language and called him a baby-killer made themselves look totally deranged.)

    If FDL and PCCC wanted to increase their (perceived) influence, they’d talk about how it was because of them that the bill was as progressive as it was, not keep arguing about how the reason why it’s so weak is that other people didn’t try hard enough to make it better. Save that for your internal discussions. Using your platform, when you have one, to complain that Democrats keep spitting in your face… that doesn’t seem like a smart use of time. And, likewise, when more mainstream Dems have an opportunity to make their own case, it’s not a smart use of time to complain that FDL and PCCC keep spitting in their faces. It may be _true_, and satisfying to vent about, but it doesn’t seem productive.

  93. 93.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @FlipYrWhig:

    It may be true, and satisfying to vent about, but it doesn’t seem productive.

    People are weird like that. I’ve been saying for a year or more now that it doesn’t seem productive to keep bashing on our own side here but you can see all the good that is doing.

  94. 94.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Just Some Fuckhead: What I take away from the struggles of both Feingold and Grayson is that it seems like being a “bold progressive” isn’t a guaranteed ticket to electoral success. A lot of people in the blogosphere appear to have convinced themselves that it is: if stick up for progressive ideas, show that you’re a fighter, people will rally to your banner, right? How come that’s not working there?

  95. 95.

    General Stuck

    it doesn’t seem productive to keep bashing on our own side here

    I tend to view it more as a bottom, than a side.

  96. 96.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @FlipYrWhig:

    How come that’s not working there?

    According to the prevailing wisdom here, true progressives aren’t supporting true progressive Feingold. Can it be more complicated than that?

  97. 97.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I don’t think blog commenters snarking at other blog commenters is the same discussion, though. I feel like I can bitch at Glenn Greenwald or Greenwald fans or Hamsher or Obama or whoever because, hey, who cares, I’m just a guy… anyone who wants to bitch at me is welcome to do that too. What bothers me more is when people from the blogs bubble up into the pundit clerisy and keep doing the same thing. Adam Green from PCCC going on Lawrence O’Donnell and complaining about how Obama didn’t pressure Snowe, Collins, and Lieberman with the “bully pulpit”… what purpose does that serve? Maybe I have a weird double standard, but I think I see a difference between how major players should behave in public and how the rest of us should behave wherever we feel like behaving.

  98. 98.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    According to the prevailing wisdom here, true progressives aren’t supporting true progressive Feingold. Can it be more complicated than that?

    Is that really the prevailing wisdom here? I thought the prevailing wisdom was that locking down the support of “true progressives” isn’t going to be enough to win elections. Or maybe that’s just my view.

    ETA: I figure both FDL/PCCC/Greenwald people and “Obots” both still support Feingold, but the not-too-tuned-in people who may have voted for Obama in ’08 but don’t tend to pay that much attention are not that strong in support and not that likely to show up. Which was the risk everyone always raised, including the Hillary people, about the sustainability of Obama’s youth-and-minority coalition.

  99. 99.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    So this is revenge for crossing Obama?

    What is your sick obsession with Obama?

    It has nothing to do with Obama, it has to do with policy. Feingold single handidly forced the weakening of the financial reform bill because he wouldn’t vote for CLOTURE. Why are you surprised Democrats aren’t excited about him?

    But that’s your logic, mine is at least half the Democratic Party is to the right of even me, and in a state like Wisconsin, that means people like Feingold go down because locking up your “base” isn’t enough to win an election unless you’re in Vermont.

    He can stand on principal all he wants and be proud of 45% of the vote he gets, all while Ron Johnson is voting to fuck Feingold’s “base” in the ass nice and hard.

  100. 100.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Is that really the prevailing wisdom here? I thought the prevailing wisdom was that locking down the support of “true progressives” isn’t going to be enough to win elections. Or maybe that’s just my view.

    Maybe I’m delusional. It seems to be a recurring theme here, and the WH has slapped out at the left a couple, three times now. Maybe we’re both right and “true progressives” are screwing all the candidates except the ones they aren’t.

    Anyway, Nick (who has been spot on about a couple other important things like Jews controlling the media and America being a center right nation) says it’s center/moderate Democrats causing all the problems.

    I honestly don’t know who to believe any more. I’ve come a long way from the “John Said It, I Believe It and That Settles It” days.

  102. 102.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I don’t think blog commenters snarking at other blog commenters is the same discussion, though. I feel like I can bitch at Glenn Greenwald or Greenwald fans or Hamsher or Obama or whoever because, hey, who cares, I’m just a guy… anyone who wants to bitch at me is welcome to do that too. What bothers me more is when people from the blogs bubble up into the pundit clerisy and keep doing the same thing. Adam Green from PCCC going on Lawrence O’Donnell and complaining about how Obama didn’t pressure Snowe, Collins, and Lieberman with the “bully pulpit”… what purpose does that serve? Maybe I have a weird double standard, but I think I see a difference between how major players should behave in public and how the rest of us should behave wherever we feel like behaving.

    It seems bassackwards to me.

  103. 103.

    General Stuck

    @Mark S.: Currently, or after 2008 and leading up to it, the independent numbers are skewed toward the GOP, as many moderate fiscal conservative types re registered as indies from being pissed at Bush. Indies number one issue has always been spending and budget based issues, and that is why Obama has made gestures to console them. Like the Debt commission and other stuff.

    I don’t know very much about Wisconsin politics, but the upper mid west has always had a frugal streak of conservatism, I think. And indies, true non aligned swing voters, and the GOP leaning ones are likely giving those bad numbers to Feingold.

  104. 104.

    Nick

    @Mark S.:

    Feingold’s problems are with independents (40-51), not Democrats (80-11) or liberals (82-15).

    We all agree with that assesment, what we’re saying is the type of argument people like Fuckhead are making, which is “stand for progressive, consolidate your base and you win” isn’t true, and this is proof of it.

    Your base isn’t enough to win an election, you need to win Indys too, sometimes that means moving to the right, running as “Republican-lite”

    fucking deal with it.

  106. 106.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Nick:

    Your base isn’t enough to win an election, you need to win Indys too, sometimes that means moving to the right, running as “Republican-lite”

    But they DID THIS, Angry Nick. Each and every time. So your strategy – the one that was actually employed – doesn’t seem all that incredible now either, right?

  107. 107.

    General Stuck

    @General Stuck:

    But a genuine wildcard does exist for this election, and even folks like Silver acknowledge it, and that is poll answers are one thing, and stepping into the voting booth is something else. Indies are pissed at the huge budget deficits and the lack of robust job creation and slow economic recovery only reinforces what these people to tell pollsters that they support republicans now.

    But when voting day approaches, the reality of the choice , that are mostly what elections are about, will intensify, and will indie’s anger at democrats and Obama exceed their mistrust and recent memory of failed GOP governance?

    Nobody knows the answer right now, but likely voter numbers are now moving towards dems, though, while enthusiasm for voting is still on the GOP side. But on voting day the past months of campaigning and ad wars and the like will give way to viewing life on the other side of the election. And who is trusted more, or less, as it were. And while polls of enthusiasm and preference have thus far been better for goopers, when you dig into the internals of these polls, they have also consistently have repubs as even, or more often below dems in who voters trusted to fix things, or govern. It is an odd disconnect that casts doubt over the GOP wave meme, though they will still pick up most of the southern blue dog seats they lost last time. The others have a big wildcard hanging over them.

  108. 108.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @FlipYrWhig: I dunno. It just seems like to me we get in all these circus like contortions by insisting everyone is in some kind of group and is operating according to the norms of some random high profile members of said group.

  109. 109.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Nick: I would amend that to say that it depends on the meaning of “base.” I don’t think you can win elections very reliably by concluding that the base is “liberals” or “progressives” and working to impress them. To put it another way, some of the Democratic base isn’t liberal, and you might have to engage the non-liberal base too.

  110. 110.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    But they DID THIS, Angry Nick. Each and every time. So your strategy – the one that was actually employed – doesn’t seem all that incredible now either, right? .

    no, it’s working for some, not for others, because Independents have either moved so far to the right since 2008 or they just don’t think Republicans are that radical.

    I’m not saying my theory works, I’m saying yours doesn’t either, otherwise Feingold would be cruising to reelection.

  111. 111.

    wmd

    @FlipYrWhig:
    FDL regularly touts the victory of Student Loan reform getting done in the reconciliation fix to HCR. And FDL did help on that, but the heavy lifting was done in the budget resolution’s reconciliation instructions.

  112. 112.

    Nick

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I don’t think you can win elections very reliably by concluding that the base is “liberals” or “progressives” and working to impress them. To put it another way, some of the Democratic base isn’t liberal, and you might have to engage the non-liberal base too.

    A non-liberal base!?!?! YOU SPEAK TREASON!

  113. 113.

    eemom

    Wow, General — looks like Fuckhead just can’t quit ya.

    Looks like he’s even resorted to a sort of fuckhead-esque attempt at reasonable argument to hold your attention.

    Sheeyit. Whaddya DO to him?

  114. 114.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Why would so called true progressives fail to rally to the cause of true progressive Feingold?

    You tell me.

    They’re not, there’s the ONLY ONES rallying to the cause, which is why he’s losing.

  115. 115.

    General Stuck

    @eemom:

    It does look like a semi serious attempt at debate, doesn’t it.

    Let’s hope it lasts.

    edit – and I dint do nothin’, cept be my usual charming self

  116. 116.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Nick:

    I’m not saying my theory works, I’m saying yours doesn’t either, otherwise Feingold would be cruising to reelection.

    No, you did say your theory works, when it clearly isn’t. And you said mine – or rather, the one you characterized as mine – doesn’t work, despite never having been tried.

  117. 117.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    And you said mine – or rather, the one you characterized as mine – doesn’t work, despite never having been tried.

    Oh so Feingold isn’t standing up as a true progressive? Wake up, it’s being tried right now, in Wisconsin, in Orlando, Florida, in Charlottesville, Virginia, in Manchester, New Hampshire, and it’s NOT working.

  122. 122.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    But your strategy isn’t working in many more places, right?

    Actually, Republican-lite candidates in swing districts/states are, for the most part, winning or treading water, so neither strategy is working well, but in the last two cycles, more “Republican-lite” candidates won than “true progressives,” which is how we got the majority we got.

    But this is getting ridiculous. Democrats stand up for their principles, they lose, they don’t, they lose, but if you’d rather than lose and stand on principle, then admit it, but stop pretending its some sort of electoral exiler because its not.

  123. 123.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Nick:

    But this is getting ridiculous. Democrats stand up for their principles, they lose, they don’t, they lose, but if you’d rather than lose and stand on principle, then admit it, but stop pretending its some sort of electoral exiler because its not.

    If yer gonna lose anyway, you might as well stand on principle. You got nothing left to.. erm, lose.

  124. 124.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    If yer gonna lose anyway, you might as well stand on principle. You got nothing left to.. erm, lose.

    Well good, at least we can put to bed this bullshit of “Americans will vote for Democrats if they stood up for their principles”

  125. 125.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Nick:

    Well good, at least we can put to bed this bullshit of “Americans will vote for Democrats if they stood up for their principles”

    That was your construct, not mine.

  126. 126.

    Nick

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    That was your construct, not mine.

    Well in a month, I’ll have the electoral evidence to back it up, but even then, you’ll probably still believe it to be true.

    “if only Feingold did X”

    Or my favorite, from Greenwald, Obama is causing Feingold to lose.

  130. 130.

    eemom

    Jeez, John, we’re trying to reward good behavior here.

    Fuckhead has been — well, as close as a fuckhead can get, to a perfect gentleman, in this thread.

    He has restricted his expressions of disdain for other commenters to a level that almost qualifies as subtlety.

    Now you come along and clonk him over the head without a trace of positive reinforcement.

    I’m beginning to think you don’t actually WANT a blog where everyone discusses things politely and reasonably.

  131. 131.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @eemom: Thank you for the gracious endorsement, eemom. I know you’d have me shot dead already if I was a Palestinian but it’s nice to have you on the side of us firebaggers. :)

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