Late to the fair with this — anyone who cares has probably read the article already — but the Spousal Unit was tickled by James Gorman’s NYTimes article on “… Pleasure in Pain of Chilies“:
Late summer is chili harvest time, when the entire state of New Mexico savors the perfume of roasting chilies, and across the country the delightful, painful fruit of plants of the genus Capsicum are being turned into salsa, hot sauce and grizzly bear repellent.
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Festivals abound, often featuring chili pepper-eating contests. “It’s fun,” as one chili pepper expert wrote, “sorta like a night out to watch someone being burned at the stake.”
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In my kitchen, as I turn my homegrown habaneros into hot sauce while wearing a respirator (I’m not kidding) I have my own small celebration of the evolutionary serendipity that has allowed pain-loving humans to enjoy such tasty pain.
[…] __
… Dr. Rozin, who studies other human emotions and likes and dislikes (“I am the father of disgust in psychology,” he says) thinks that we’re in it for the pain. “This is a theory,” he emphasizes. “I don’t know that this is true.”
__
But he has evidence for what he calls benign masochism. For example, he tested chili eaters by gradually increasing the pain, or, as the pros call it, the pungency, of the food, right up to the point at which the subjects said they just could not go further. When asked after the test what level of heat they liked the best, they chose the highest level they could stand, “just below the level of unbearable pain.”…
“Just as I’ve always told you!” says the Spousal Unit, gleefully. “People who like spicy food are all masochists!”
I should explain that the Spousal Unit grew up in the boonies of Heartland America(tm), during the 1950s, among the descendents of Norwegians and Finns who were just as glad to trade concepts like ‘lutefisk’ and ‘fermented whale blubber’ for ‘Swansons’ and ‘Hellmans’. It was exciting when, shortly after his fifteenth birthday, the first foreign restaurant opened up in his town — they’d never had a pizzeria, or pizza, before. After thirty-plus years of cohabitation, I’ve gradually increased his culinary tolerance to the point where he can enjoy chain-restaurant chili and quite a respectable amount of garlic, but at heart this is a man who considers onions a spice, not a vegetable.
And he’s had an equally levelling effect on my palate. I grew up in New York City with a dad who was, to use a word not then in usage, a foodie. We didn’t have much money, but with dozens of Jewish delis and Italian red-tablecloth joints around our Bronx neighborhood, the fish markets surrounding his Port Authority job, and Little Italy, Spanish Harlem, (German/Russian) Yorkville, and Chinatown just a subway token away, exotic eats didn’t have to be expensive. I was (am) an inordinately picky eater, but I can honestly state that, for instance, I’ve eaten just about every form of salt-water seafood, usually in more than one preparation method (Hungarian jellied eels & Hong Kong-style fried baby elvers), and I just do not like the taste of fish. But I used to have a fairly high tolerance for spicy food, and now I can just about manage Mexican red enchiladas and “mild” at the average catering-to-white-people Indian restaurant.
So, chili-heads, tell us: Is it really about pain? Or are there tastebuds for flavors that just happen to edge up against pain-nerves?
djheru
It’s all about the endorphins. My favorite is to go work out really hard, then come home and have some scrambled eggs with sambal oelek drizzled generously on top. It’s one step below a bong toke.
Trinity
I love spicy food.
I am a masochist.
I never thought they were connected but whatevs…bring on the habaneros!
Oh…and this makes me giggle…MayorEmanuel on Twitter.
Benjamin Cisco
I don’t enjoy pain, so I’ll go with option B.
Nom de Plume
I don’t know about the pain part, but hot food definitely clears the head. Kind of like a hit of smelling salts. You’re wide awake after a habañero, I can tell you that.
Jules
Yorkville was not “German/Russian”
It was German/Hungarian. Take it from me, I was born and raised there.
twiffer
i like some spice, but too much. big fan of cumin and mid-level chilies. there are some very nice fruity flavors in inferno chilies like scotch bonnets, but i can’t get past the heat.
however, as the capascin is a defense for the fruit, it makes sense we’d evolve to get past it.
New Yorker
Both, as i definitely see spicy foods as a personal “how much can you take?” challenge. Plus, the endorphins that kick in (I call it the “pepper high”) after you’ve consumed enough.
Redshift
I think it can involve pain receptors without actually being about pain. There was a paper that came out a couple of days ago about how part of the experience of carbonated beverages is that they stimulate certain pain receptors.
Comrade Javamanphil
You can place me firmly in the pleasure in pain camp. If my eyes aren’t watering, there is not enough heat.
MAJeff
North Dakota hasn’t changed all that much. They’ve got an allergy to flavor in these parts.
I love the heat, but I’m not insane about it. I’ve pulled the macho “I’m a man and will finish this if it kills me” a couple times (Vindaloo in Amsterdam…holy shit), but I’m not the type that’s going to do “Hotter than Hell Night” at the East Coast Grill.
Kilgore Trout
My wife makes salsa using Ghost Chili from India:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20058096/
Good stuff, she uses 10 or 12 when making about a quart so I guess you can put us in the masochist camp.
Alwhite
It took me several trips to my favorite Indian place to convince them that I liked it hot. Most of this area is of the “UFF-DA that catsup is spicy” types. But its is not just the heat, I hate most chain/prepared stuff that just douse the thing in pepper for the heat. If you use good chillies & other spices the heat brings out a different level of flavor. Maybe its that the sinuses are all wide open & taking in the whole aroma.
JAHILL10
Husband likes to eat hot, spicy food til he sweats. I am of the mid-west “onions are spice”, hyper bland food upbringing. But I find as I age, my tolerance for hot food is increasing, just not to the level of Thai soup! It is the head clearing effect I enjoy the most. Wasabi especially is good for this: a blast, a gasp, and suddenly you feel like you have been awakened from sleepwalking. Wonderful.
Sentient Puddle
OK wait wait wait hold on a sec. As someone originally from New Mexico, one correction: it’s chile, not chili.
Now back to finishing to read the rest of the post…
ruemara
You deeply love your Spousal Unit. Because you’ll pry my garlic and varieties of spice out of my cold dead hands. Shichimi chili powder is the bomb.
Corner Stone
@Comrade Javamanphil:
Agreed. If I don’t have to stop and think about what I’m doing every couple bites then it is not hot enough.
But there has to be the flavor element too. White hot heat absent any remote taste is useless.
I want to taste what I’m eating then understand I may or may not burst into flames shortly after.
Alwhite
@Redshift:
I often wondered why flat soda does not taste as good as when it is bubbly – thought it might just be in my head. But maybe not & this might also explain why chillies affect the flavor more than I’d expect.
jacy
I just like spicy food. Not so much about the pain, but then I rarely find something that’s “too hot.” I find I often have cravings for hot, and the hotter the better.
There’s a taqueria down the road that makes their own tomatilla salsa that will literally eat through a Styrofoam container if you let it sit long enough. That’s my favorite. Also, nothing like a dab of wasabi to clear out the sinuses.
I’ m of Irish/Norwegian heritage, so not so much a genetic component, but I did grow up in Colorado, so I was exposed to lots of Hispanic food from a young age. As I’ve gotten older, my tolerance has grown, and sometimes it’s hard to find enough spice.
Kirk Spencer
An interesting paper I read years ago – and I can’t recall detail or I’d link – suggested it’s more “Hey y’all watch this”.
Which is done for the same reason male birds fluff their plumage, scream, and skirmish with other males. Demonstrating ‘toughness’, regardless of actual truth of the toughness, is an attraction device.
Yah, women do it too. But take another look at those ‘take the heat’ contests and notice the male to female ratio.
debit
I’m from Minnesota, so I grew up on bland white food: tuna in white sauce over eggs noodles, white bread, Miracle Whip, etc. And onion was a seasoning; onion salt, that is. So I didn’t really know from spicy when I finally made my escape to the big city. I am okay with mild to moderate, but take no pleasure in painfully spicy food. It just does nothing for me.
@ open thread: My son is getting married this evening. He and his fiancee have done almost everything on their own, but will need help setting up the reception hall, so I’m just killing time waiting for the call to action. And resisting the urge to go out and buy another gift. It’s like Christmas, that horrible lingering fear that haven’t done enough when in reality, I probably went overboard.
FlipYrWhig
There used to be a food truck in Philadelphia that sold Thai food, and they offered something called the Crying Tiger. They had signs up about how you were ordering at your own risk, no refunds, etc. I tried it once. It was really fucking hot. A friend watched me struggle with it and then said it really ought to be called the Weeping Caucasian.
Linda Featheringill
Endorphins definitely.
Also, as a person who is prone to depression, I have found that the hot stuff can help me break out of the dreaded black hole. The pain might be a part of that, although I am such a wimp that I REALLY dilute my peppers and so there is very little pain.
The food is interesting though and my focus is on physical sensation, which is probably what breaks up the Blue Meanies.
Alice Blue
I have a friend, Texas born and bred, who was pastor of a church in Iowa for a while. According to her, “these people think ketchup is a spice.”
Dork
Was at a Ale House in SoFla, and the ‘tender has this spice sauce in a dropper bottle, and the instructions were very firm: no more than one drop on “x” grams of food (dont remember what x was). Buddy (who claimed nothing can be too spicy) says screw that, demands the bartender put 3 drops on his next chicken wing. Needless to say, his face soon turns purple, and he’s chugging down every glass of water on the bar, no matter whose it was. Sweat just pouring out of forehead. No idea what that sauce was, but had to be something exotic.
lamh31
“Rep. James Clyburn Pushes Back Against Critics of Dems, CBC “
Not that some of ya’ll care, but he also gives a defense of the CBC too.
Tom Hilton
My dad: same background (Wisconsin/Minnesota). Couldn’t stand anything spicier than catsup.
Edit: My mom, on the other hand, grew up partly in New Mexico. ‘Nuff said.
I like spicy, but I don’t get into it for the pain; too spicy just isn’t enjoyable for me.
Chris Johnson
I’m gonna make my szechuan peanut chicken and rice tonight :9
Probably not all that hot by maso standards. It’s just stir-frying in hot sesame oil with black pepper added (need to get szechuan pepper, which isn’t really a pepper) and turning the leftover oil into sauce by adding peanut sauce and some peanut butter. If I balance and tame it just right it’s delicious AND my forehead sweats. Looking forward to eventually getting some hua jiao to make it properly… I think you’re supposed to use palm oil, hot peppers and hua jiao for a Szechuan hotpot…
Punchy
My dad was at a Japanese restuarant, and didn’t know the ultra-soopah-doopah wicked hawt peppers on his plate were meant for decoration only. He ate them instead, and was swiftly driven to the hospital in a state of shock. Dumbass.
Trevor B
I grew up in the four corners, around very spicy food. I love the spice can’t get enough, but Montana has the weakest food on the planet, no access to any chilies. Especially my favorite New Mexico Green chilies, if you get them freshly roasted they are very spicy. Dammit, now I am craving chilies.
scav
what might it mean that I’m a wasabi fiend (I’ll eat it straight up followed by a chaser of the ginger) but I’m not wild about chilies?
schrodinger's cat
First of all not all spices are hot. Cumin, coriander, nutmeg, cardamom to name a few. Flavor matters not the degree of hotness. Chillies I love the best, thai chillies and serrano peppers.
I have a collection of hot sauces at home, Sriracha, chinese hot chillies in oil, plus my personal favorite, ground chillies, cilantro and ginger chutney, great with sea-food! marinade for half an hour and put in aluminum foil and bake for 20 to 25 min at 450. Delicious and nutritious!
schrodinger's cat
@scav: There is two kinds of heat. One that comes from chillies, chillies taste hot when you are eating them, but spices that make up garam masala (black peppers, cinnamon and the like) are not hot in your mouth but once they hit your throat you feel the heat. Ginger and wasabi probably act the same way.
Moonbatting Average
@Sentient Puddle: This!
dave
Someone upthread mentioned the “Hell Night” at the East Coast Grill in Cambridge, MA. I’ve been a couple of times. The chef is great and the food is really tasty and well done. Most of it isn’t outrageously spicy. However, be forewarned, do not order the “Pasta From Hell.” It is i<a href="I like things spicy, but not overwhelmingly so. If you've ever tasted extremely mild salsa you will see how the missing heat could have brought out the very subtle flavors. Someone upthread mentioned the "Hell Night" at the East Coast Grill in Cambridge, MA. I've been a couple of times. The chef is great and the food is really tasty and well done. Most of it isn't outrageously spicy. However, be forewarned, do not order the "Pasta From Hell." It is incapacitating. “>ncapacitating.
scav
@schrodinger’s cat: ahh, whew, yes! it’s the up the back of the head straight to the tear ducts zing that I go for. Will have to go mainline more of those new alternatives.
ETA: Thanks for providing a line on those new sources!
Amir_Khalid
Here in Southeast Asia, food without spiciness is considered OK only for infants and Westerners. Curry with no “kick” is just not worthy of the name. Ideally, your mouth should sting afterward, at least a little and preferably a lot.
This applies even when eating Western food. At McDonald’s, we eat our fries with chili sauce. I put an absolutely insane amount of Tabasco sauce on my pizza. And I love the strong mustard that clears your sinuses and makes your eyes water.
Svensker
My Dad was a northwest Svensker who insisted that people couldn’t possibly like vinegar — they ate it on salads only to pretend to be sophisticated. He was serious. He also thought pepper was one of those tastes people faked liking, as well. My mom could sneak onions into some foods, so long as he couldn’t see them, but the only garlic in our house until the day my Dad died was the garlic salt that mom and I would sprinkle like mad all over our steaks.
schrodinger's cat
@Svensker: The only way I can stomach lutefisk is with lots of aquavit (sp?).
Tusz
I’m in a weird camp that views “spicy” as a flavor on par with sweet, sour, etc. A lot of places that have really spicy food don’t bring any other flavors to the table, and they end up not being as good for that reason rather than overpowering spice. That said, if you can make food that is complex and makes me sweat, I’d be a huge fan of your cooking.
Unfortunately, my love of the spicy stuff is directly contrasting with my roommate’s. If it’s hot enough for me to notice, it’s too hot for her to handle. This has caused problems in the past.
Marmot
Not to get tooooooo uppity about growing up on the Texas side of the Mexican border, but when I was a waiter on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, I was appalled at the number of people who’d ask, “Is the gazpacho soup spicy?”
Certainly you can get some exotic eats in NYC — but your dad did you a solid by not giving in to what is, at its foundation, a bland taste-inheritance. I’ve never seen so many chicken salad sandwiches in my life. (And what’s with calling Mexican food “Spanish,” anyway? Not you, Anne, but NYC.)
It’s the endorphins, like djheru said in comment 1, by way of the pain. But habaneros seem like a bit of a rookie move — too much heat for too little flavor. Maybe it’s a special-occasion thing. While jalapenos are generally too hot to eat directly, but when stuffed and grilled are just perfect. I like a poblano pepper or sometimes an Anaheim raw on a sandwich or lightly cooked — delicious!
scav
@Punchy: When I was a kid, we took my midwestern uncle on a tour of the various cuisines of SoCal: He was so proud of himself when he recognized the guacamole at the Sushi bar and dug in enthusiastically.
PurpleGirl
I can take and enjoy a mild level of chili. I have tried higher levels of hot, but know now what I can enjoy.
Once a blind date took me to a Mexican restaurant which I had suggested. They had a clear green salsa dip which packed a time-released hot bomb — it exploded as it went down your throat. Anyway, the chips and sauce are brought to the table and the date picks up a chip and dips into the sauce. He takes a large dollop on the chip and I tell him “you might want to try a small amount on the corner of a chip first, to gauge your tolerance. This stuff looks mild but has a bite.” “No,” he tells me, “I’m Italian and I know hot.” (Sure, I think… Mexicans invented hot.) So he bites the chip and I start seeing steam coming from his ears as it were, and he starts moving his hand to his water glass as I say “No, the margarita, you want the margarita.” The water does not help him at all.
It was our first date, I went out with him only one time more.
schrodinger's cat
@scav:
Any time scav! You will love my mom’s garam masala. So good, leaves a trail of burning lava as it goes down your throat.
For people who like garlic and chillies, you should try garlic chutney. Fresh raw garlic, hot red pepper powder, dessicated unsweetened coconut and salt to taste, use a blender or food processer, great accompaniment with any bland food!
kathleen
I live in Santa Fe, and driving north on Cerrillos Rd. in October is bliss. The roadside is lined with tents piled with burlap bags filled with green chile, flanked by 5 or 6 big ole’ roasters, going full-tilt-boogie all day. The aroma wafts through the air all day, every day…….
Green chile is indeed the nectar of the gods, and it is about BOTH the pleasure and the pain.
Sometimes I want just a “tch” of fire, with the emphasis on smoke and the piquancy – like in eggs. Other times it is ALL about the fire – like in a carne asada burrito. I want to burnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
I don’t know how I lived without green chile before I moved to New Mexico.
Now is the time that all New Mexicans stop at said roadside stands, buy said burlap bags full of green chile, have their preferred proprietor roast said green chiles, divide them up into gallon freezer bags, and fill every inch of available freezer space to get them through the coming year.
yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jacquie
@Comrade Javamanphil: Agreed with this. The best and most memorable meals I have had in my life have left me sobbing from the heat. I have been rapidly increasing my tolerance lately by mixing sriracha or sambal into every damn thing I eat. I highly recommend mixing it 50-50 with bottled ranch dressing. Mmmmm.
And yes, I am a masochist too. :)
mclaren
From hanging around people who grew up in the Southwest eating this kind of stuff, I have to believe it’s at least partly due to acclimation. When someone grew up eating ridiculously hot chilis they seem to develop a tolerance. I can’t even remotely stand to eat what most Texas or New Mexico dwellers consider “mildly spicy.”
Of course, even for Texans, there are different levels of spiciness. The Naga Jolokia pepper clocks in at more than a million Scoville units — twice as hot as the previous contender. Humans can’t eat something like that. It would send you into toxic shock.
debit
@scav: God, I love the ginger. I have friends who will just automatically pass over their ginger once our orders arrive because they know I’ll do the puppy dog eyes in tandem with a “Hey, you gonna eat that?” if they don’t anyway. It’s so good, and with a little sip of plum wine? Heaven.
Svensker
@schrodinger’s cat:
Most disgusting white people food ever (except perhaps for the rotted shark the Icelanders eat).
fasteddie9318
OT, but this is an open thread, apparently Rick Sanchez gave an interview on Sirius radio yesterday wherein he referred to Jon Stewart as a “bigot” and said that TEH JOOOOOOOS not only run CNN, but all major media. Did he get fired or something? Before yesterday, I mean. He’s a goner now for sure.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/01/rick-sanchez-jon-stewart-_n_746764.html
DMcK
Welp, looks like this thread is due for a contrarian corrective, as this here caucasian just does not understand the alleged charms of the heavy application of huge dollops of garlic, super-hot chilies, and the like, other than their appeal as a food fad for culinarily challenged Americans. The point of seasoning is to enhance and compliment the flavor of whatever you’re eating, not obliterate it entirely (and give you a spice hangover for hours to boot). Emeril can suck it.
kathleen
@Trevor B: you know, you can order green chile chicken or cheese tamales online from Posa’s (GOOD tamales) at
http://www.santafetamales.com
don’t deny yourself.
lou
Some poor, deprived people — like my BIL — have sensitive taste receptors and can’t abide the taste, or even the smell, of garlic. I pity them.
To me, spicy food is about the flavor. Habaneros have a distinctive, interesting flavor if you use them judiciously. I adore Thai food, kimchee and vindaloo. And I find that too many Asian restaurants just don’t believe you when you tell them you do like hot and spicy.
schrodinger's cat
@debit: Ginger tea is great when you have a cold, clears up the sinuses. This summer I made a ginger lime granita, wuz delicious! Next time I am going to spike it with some vodka!
Comrade Mary
I bought some wee bird’s eye chili peppers (aka “mouse dropping chili”) from a street vendor on Spadina in August and have used them in just about everything: various curries, Jamaican patties (Yum!), stir-frys, and scrambled eggs. They’re tiny but powerful, yo.
And I think it’s time for this classic:
Comrade Mary
@debit: Soulmate! I love pickled ginger, and when my guy and I make a stir-fry, he uses large, thin slices of ginger for flavour, but doesn’t eat it, so I just hoover that stuff up from both our plates.
scav
@DMcK: pish, there are the culinary carousels and the culinary roller coasters and some of us like the E-tickets too.
Legalize
I love spicy food, because I like food that has flavor. The smell and taste of strong spices makes my mouth water, which I think (although I don’t know for sure), that this stimulates my taste experience. I don’t know anything about taste buds or anything, but this is my perception.
I find that the vast majority of food I come across is either (a) comfort food, or (b) food calculated to appeal to the majority of people, i.e. largely tasteless. I don’t mean at fast food restaurants, but even at nicer restaurants and at dinner parties, etc. Salt seems to be the universal cure-all for lack of flavor, and I don’t care for salty food.
So, Mrs. Legalize and I add lots of spices and the things that go well with them to pretty much everything we cook. If it were up to me, jalapeno, onions, cilantro and lime would be in everything. I make salsa with tons of hot and sweet peppers in it. Same with chili. I like the sweet and the hot together.
EDIT: Plus, spicy food and cold, COLD beer go together better than anything.
Damn, now I’m hungry.
debit
@schrodinger’s cat: Oh, I shall try it, thanks!
And lest anyone think ginger does not have some heat, there’s the practice in the Arabian show horse world referred to as “gingering”. This process involves raw ginger root and the animal’s rectum or the underside of the tail. It will make even a dull, placid animal “fiery” in the show ring. Judges are wise to it, but it doesn’t stop some assholes from trying it anyway.
Tom Hilton
@fasteddie9318: Loved James Poniewozik’s Twitter response to Sanchez:
burnspbesq
I have a reasonable tolerance for spicy food, but I suffered an ignominious defeat recently. If you go to the halal food cart on the southwest corner of 53rd Street and Sixth Avenue in New York, don’t overdo the red sauce. You’ve been warned.
mclaren
@DMcK:
“Huge dollops,” that’s a developed and highly personal taste, but small amounts of even extreme spices add enormously to many kinds of foods. Small amounts of garlic tend to enhance flavors already there. Small amounts of chilis actually accentuate sweet tastes, something used to great effect in Thai and other Asian cooking. Small amounts of lemon and horseradish bring out other flavors like tomato or beef consumme which would otherwise be masked.
A tiny dash of jalapeno brings onions into sharp relief. Microscopic shavings of pepper or coriander greatly enhance the subtle flavor of fish, particularly roasted fish.
I’m not a big fan of emptying half a bottle of tobasco sauce into your scrambled eggs, but a drop or two does wonders to bring out the taste of meat and cheese in a ham-and-cheese omelette.
schrodinger's cat
I am pretty irreligious, bordering on agnostic, but when we lived in Maryland. I would go quite often to the Indian Temple in my neighborhood, to worship their food! Authentic south Indian vegetarian food, and much cheaper than restaurants.
I hope ceiling cat forgives me for my transgressions.
Legalize
@schrodinger’s cat:
Goddamn that sounds good! This particularly hot and humid summer has been the summer of vodka for me.
Laertes
It’s all about the endorphin rush.
Sentient Puddle
@PurpleGirl: Yep, that sounds about right. And I’d highlight for those who don’t know, water won’t do a damn bit of good for the spiciness. Go for the sour cream or order a glass of milk with the meal. Alcohol works as well, but I’ve gotten used to eating Mexican over lunch on a work day, and my superiors frown upon such drinks at said time.
It also reminded me of this video: Rob Stone vs. NMSU’s Chile Peppers
kdaug
For me it’s the selectively regional sweating – can’t think of anything else that makes just my eyebrows and nose sweat like habaneros.
Butch
We dug up some of the horseradish last night and ground it – you could hardly be in the same room when the food processor was running but it’s wonderful.
Now on the other hand….I remember as a little kid getting dragged to a church dinner and having two parishioners show up with pizza from a local restaurant. I had absolutely never seen anything so exotic.
Scott P.
You folks are all crazy. I don’t like hot food at all. Why eat something painful?
Comrade Mary
Yep. A mango lassi is also your best friend in the world.
schrodinger's cat
@Comrade Mary: Or even plain yogurt.
Comrade Mary
But a mango lassi has MANGO! Yogurt is functional, mango makes it heavenly :-)
gregw
@Comrade Mary:
Damn, I haven’t laughed so hard in a very long time. Thanks for sharing that.
WereBear
Mr WereBear loves Szechuan, asks the chef to “make my scalp sweat,’ but can’t handle Mexican at all, not even Jalepeno poppers without the seeds.
Both chiles, but different strains, obviously.
But in all other ways he has, as I tell him, “the palate of a six year old boy.”
Funnily enough, we grew up with MidWestern cooking, and both crave the spicy in our own ways. I love Southwestern, he loves Chinese, and we both love Thai.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
@FlipYrWhig: Hahaha – I loved that truck (at least if it’s the one that was near 36th and Walnut). I ordered the Crying Tiger just once and after the kind of brain-pain that usually comes from eating stuff that’s too cold decided never to try it again.
I cook with scotch bonnet peppers – love the combination of fruit and heat; there’s definitely a flavor there that transforms the dish.
schrodinger's cat
@Comrade Mary: You know what’s even better, mango frozen yogurt and mango ice-cream, also fresh mangos with whipped cream. Especially if you can get alphonso mangos from India
stuckinred
Back in the day we would eat raw jalepeno’s and wash em down with shots of Jack.
Comrade Mary
You are making me cry because peak alphonso mango season has passed here.
Also: you can make awesome mango-banana “ice cream” just by cutting VERY RIPE alphonso mangos and VERY RIPE bananas into small pieces, freezing them, then letting a food processor with some guts churn them into soft serve. If you like, you can add a bit of coconut cream or vanilla or both, or even just use bananas if you like.
Just be patient with the lumpy, grainy mess you get in the early stages of processing and let it keep churning. You end up with a miracle in your mouth.
Lysana
It’s the flavor and the endorphins combined with “Yes, I did it” for me. My favorite culinary torture is curry. Thai or Indian. Japanese can be fun but I think they go for the burn more than the taste sometimes.
And some of it’s acclimation. When I moved to CA from MA, Taco Bell had spice to it. Now I know better. LOTS better.
YellowDog
I too grew up in that part of the country. My father, who spoke primarily Finnish until he went to public school, believed that black pepper was all you needed (with lots of salt). He was like a vampire when it came to garlic. Fortunately, unlike your SU, I escaped and found delight in other cuisines. I had chicken Vindaloo the other night that was just right (with a Mango Lassi of course). And I have won a few lunches by drinking Tabasco straight from the bottle.
What’s the definition of ice cream? It’s the only thing that isn’t better with hot sauce.
Punchy
Someone’s got to do another post about the creepy MIchigan AAG. Just read the DKos thread (yes, now I must take a shower) and was directed to his CNN AC interview. Just fucking amazing how fucked up, unprofessional, and bigoted this fat fuck is. Stunned.
schrodinger's cat
@Comrade Mary: How I love alphonso mangos! let me count the ways…
Amir_Khalid
I was in a fancy-hotel restaurant in Singapore once that served local cuisine. The clientele must have been largely foreign; the sliced red chilis served as part of the condiments had been — OMG — de-seeded! There was no kick left in them! I suffered through an otherwise OK but terribly bland meal. It’s just not the same without that kick.
elmo
The hotter the better, definitely. Those “decorative” chiles on your Szechuan restaurant platter? I’ve eaten those. Plural. (it wasn’t pleasant, but I’m a showoff.) Everyone’s ideas are making my mouth water, thanks!
But I’m curious if this is only a Southern thing: I’m terrified of ordering spicy food in restaurants, because it is invariably also sweet. Is that just a regional thing (because it wasn’t the case when I lived in California)? Or is it a new fad, that I’ve just associated wtih the South because I’ve only lived here the last six years?
I hate sweet food that isn’t supposed to be dessert. Cake and pie are wonderful sweet. Meat and rice not so much. And I just can’t order szechuan chicken anywhere anymore because it’s always sweet.
Anyone else have this problem?
schrodinger's cat
@Amir_Khalid: What’s the point of deseeding chillies? Kinda like fat free ice-cream, me thinks.
Don SinFalta
My wife makes hot salsa professionally that has won a number of awards (Scovies, Austin Hot Sauce Festival, Houston Hot Sauce Festival). She uses a variety of peppers in her salsas, making liberal use of habaneros but no ghost peppers or anything like that. Our experience is that there are two overlapping categories of spicy food lovers. There are definitely those that are in it for the pain. We had a booth recently in the Houston festival, and the guy next to us won the award for super hot salsa. Many people who came to our booth asking for the hottest salsa we had shrugged ours off and moved to his for the real test. I saw one person who tried his stuff and said it not only cleared out his sinuses but gave him a nosebleed. I watched another as he failed the test and vomited out in the grass in front of their booth.
We cater to the other category, people who like spicy food with a blend of interesting flavors. Hot peppers definitely enhance the taste of foods with other spices in a way that makes the whole greater than the sum of the parts. I think this is the larger category of spicy food lovers judging by the volume of sales by the people in the “flavor” camp vs. the people in the “blow their heads off” camp.
As for the appeal of the heat per se, I definitely go with the endorphin theory. My wife is from Nepal, and she knew a number of people there who acted as though they were literally addicted to hot peppers. They were unable to make it through the day without them, and would do most anything to get them for every meal.
TooManyJens
@DMcK:
This is how I feel, too. I like a little spiciness, but as soon as it gets beyond a little, I can’t taste anything but OW. I don’t get the point, but I guess it just doesn’t work that way for everyone.
I do love garlic, though. I wouldn’t necessarily say the more the better, but there are dishes for which I have yet to find a garlic ceiling.
General Stuck
@Svensker:
Never met your dad, but every time you mention him, I think of setting the neighbors shrubs on fire with his little brass canon. That is all way kind of cool in my book and gives a smile.
kdaug
@kathleen: This. I’m in Austin. Got one half of my freezer packed with a case of roasted, double bagged green chiles, and the meal this week is Hatch Chicken Soup.
Fergus Wooster
@stuckinred:
Growing some in my backyard this year, and I’ve tried disposing of the surplus your way (substituting tequila for Jack).
Very stimulating going in, but pure hell coming out.
stuckinred
Rahm Emanuel gave a teary goodbye to his staff Friday morning in the Roosevelt Room, and in return received a dead asian carp.
Southern Beale
Nashville’s great culinary contribution is not, as some might have you believe, deep-fried fat balls. It is something known as Hot Chicken. It started here and it is a tradition here. There are quite a few restaurants that serve it, each claiming to have the “real” hot chicken recipe. If you have the time, I highly recommend Joe York’s 9 minute “documentary,” on Prince’s Hot Chicken Shack.
Prince’s is the best known hot chicken establishment in Nashville, it’s in a bad part of town which adds to the allure. The thing that makes it special is that the “hotness” is actually infused into the meat, it’s not just in the breading. My favorite hot chicken in Nashville was a place called Mr. Boo’s, sadly no longer here.
Anyway … as the documentary tells you, there is something addictive about the spiciness. It is, literally, like dope. You eat hot chicken on a Sunday afternoon at 3 pm and I guarantee you will be craving that spicy flavor at 3 pm the following day. There is truly an addictive element to it.
BeccaM
I like the taste — and the endorphins.
Eating ultra-spicy foods — including sometimes jalapeños straight from the jar, or whole with a dab of cream cheese — is one of the ways I deal with migraines.
For ordinary eating though, I have a preferred level of heat which is actually a couple steps below the max I can handle (which, according to my own spousal unit, is considerable).
I think this tendency for people to say they like stuff just about as hot as they can handle isn’t a mashochism thing, but rather a showing off. Like the person in the gym who makes a point of lifting more weight than is good for them, or bragging about running 10 miles every day.
stuckinred
@Fergus Wooster: Yea, I gave all that up many moons ago!
stuckinred
@Southern Beale: This is great!
Dennis SGMM
@Don SinFalta:
I’m with you. I enjoy very spicy food if the “hot” component plays a part in the spicing. Just plain hot doesn’t work for my palate.
Southern Beale
@stuckinred:
Wait until you eat the chicken! YUMMY!!!!
Corner Stone
@BeccaM:
Or it could be they really do enjoy their food that way, and prepare it the way they like it for themselves, in their own kitchen, with no one else around.
asiangrrlMN
Funny. I just finished eating hot chicken wings which the woman at my co-op warned me was burn-my-throat hot. I said, “Great!” And, the result? A pleasant tingle on my tongue. Tasty, but not that hot.
I love hot foods, and I am a masochist, but I don’t think the two are related. Hot foods sweat out the impurities and the complex flavors are marvelous. Plus, as someone noted upthread, wasabi is a clean burn. It sears your sinuses and then is gone. That’s nice.
Since I live in MN, it’s fucking difficult to find really spicy food. The only exception is a local Indian restaurant that serves fried chiles as an appetizer. The waiter told me it was really hot, and I assured him I could handle really hot (thinking he meant really Minnesotan hot). I ate three and had to stop. Afterwards, he told me that even Indians didn’t eat them. Thanks for telling me ahead of time.
Finally, my bro and I had a hot sauce contest for many years. Every Christmas, we would give each other a hot sauce, trying to outdo the other from the year before. I won with Da Bomb several years back.
However, apparently they’ve found an even hotter pepper than the habanero, so my brother emailed me with a link and said, “We back on?” Bring it, bro.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Kirk Spencer:
Ditto that. I’ve noticed that in this part of NM the locals who eat chile of one sort or another pretty much every day enjoy the flavors and aromas of the different varieties and sources but don’t care all that much about how hot it is so long as some minimal standards are met. The people who get all excited about Scoville heat rankings, etc. are pretty much guaranteed to be tourists who think they have something to prove. So there is definitely a macho aspect to it.
And what kathleen @44 said. The aroma of roasting chile is almost indescribably sublime. Fall would be my favorite time of year just for that, without anything else.
daryljfontaine
I have a taste for certain hot foods but I also have a threshhold. Subway as a chain switched from a milder giardineira with green olives and a variety of chopped vegetables to a full-on oil burn with almost nothing but peppers. I liked the former as a capper on a sandwich but the latter is nothing but heat; not what I want to be eating.
Horseradish as a topping for prime rib — didn’t know I liked it til I tried it.
Thai red chili sauce, very tasty with a nice heat. Pasta diavolo, just past my threshhold of enjoyably hot — at least in the places I’ve tried it.
Curries, I’ve had some spicy ones but probably not the Curries of Mass Destruction. I like what I’ve tried.
Spicy mustard and wasabi, all part of what I like to call Flaming Nasal Death — those are probably the closest thing to masochistic flavors I enjoy. There will always be that roundhouse kick to the sinuses which accompany such foods, but I still like the flavors.
I’m sure there’s a whole spectrum of heat flavors I’ve not been exposed to… my general rule is, I’ll try it once, responsibly, and know my own limitations.
D
Svensker
@General Stuck:
Awww. Yeah, Dad was cool, very eccentric and fun to be around. He was the kind of guy who was in the opera chorus of Aida and made himself a mosaic sundial watch (!) in authentic Egyptian colors as part of his costume. And when we went camping and fishing (which was every summer and in the far back of beyond, at least 50 miles from the other nearest humans ) would build a working hot water shower tiled with river rocks. But he didn’t like any food that had added flavors beside salt and sugar. Occasionally a bit of vanilla or cinnamon, but god forbid you should venture out as far as cloves or parsley!
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
@elmo: Then you’ll definitely hate peppadew peppers which are a combination of sweet and hot. First had them in a salad in South Africa and they tasted like a cross between sweet tomatoes and mild chiles. I love hot and sweet combined.
asiangrrlMN
@debit: Good luck, mom o’ the groom!
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people): OOOoh! That looks tasty. I like sweet/hot, too.
socraticsilence
Masochism’s a part of it at the upper end of the spectrum, but authenticity is also an issue, as is price- its cheaper to cook good spicy food than just about any other flavor variation due to the price of peppers (even ordering ghost peppers isn’t pricey for a college student).
tones
It is a tolerance thing, at first a little is enough , but if you eat it regularly you become immune.
Then hotter and hotter just taste the same as you get used to it – after a while you eat hot stuff but it is not so hot anymore.
asiangrrlMN
@tones: An apt parallel to tolerance in general of things outside one’s comfort zone!
Jay S
@schrodinger’s cat: We use citrus to cut the heat. You can add lemon or lime juice to the food to bring it back to a tolerable level as well as suck on them for quick relief. It’s probably part of the Margarita cure mentioned above.
I’ll go with the two kinds of heat eater theory. Pain showoffs and the flavor enhancers. Although the endorphin theory might add a third, where it ain’t the heat it’s the emotion.
Chuchundra
— Daniel Pinkwater “A Hot Time in Nairobi”
MolyBloom
I grew up near Hatch, N.M. (home of the greatest green chiles in the world). We now live in Seattle and just discovered that QFC sells Hatch green chiles. I bought 2 boxes of the stuff and roasted them over a weekend. What a great aroma!
You can freeze it in quart freezer bags and thaw them out as needed. I don’t know if I love the stuff because it reminds me of home or whether all those compounds give me a buzz AND clean my sinuses, but I feel great if I eat some everyday.
Also, finally found frozen red chile at Central Market. Velvet fire! Now if they could only sell Chimayo red chile in Seattle, I’d be in heaven.
kathleen
now I’m gonna have to make green chile stew this weekend.
evinfuilt
Let’s see, I’m English so I grew up on curries and vindaloo. My mother though is of Scandinavian descent, so I also do the heavy fat dishes and lots of salted fishes (my fathers side being Jewish agrees on all the salted fishes.)
I ended up being a foodie (I didn’t know offal was supposed to be gross, I mean doesn’t everyone eat tongue sandwiches??), and to me a real treat is something that brings just a bit of tears to the eyes.
I ended up spending a long time in Colorado, the Green Chilli they do there is to die for, and has turned into my ultimate comfort food. It seems its best when using New Mexico chilli’s. Now I’m in Texas and I can get even more authentic Mexican food, I never knew how good chilli and chocolate was till I had Mole, now I’m in love. Oh, and I trained my partner in making me some authentic English cuisine (yup, Indian food that burns your eyes before you even attempt to eat it.)
scarshapedstar
I’m from New Orleans. My idea of a good batch of crawfish is one where your lips are still burning when you fall asleep that night, and no matter how much you scrub your hands your eyes will burn if you touch them during the next 2 days.
I’m not sure if it’s about pain so much as the “eat to live” vs. “live to eat” thing. A meal is a meal, even a delicious one, but a really hot meal is an unforgettable experience. There are plenty of times when I wonder what I had for lunch, but if lunch was hot boiled crabs or crawfish, I don’t have that problem.
Jager
Not every Midwestern Norwegian has a taste for bland food,
my car dealer dad had a Norski working for him when I was a kid who completely disproves the rule. The old man would on occasion take me to breakfast before school to a little place a half a block from the dealership called Red’s Cafe, dad was a regular and we would sit in a booth in the kitchen. Red had been a cook in the Army in WWII and had been exposed to “heat” on bases in the South and Texas. Each table was supplied with various chiles, hot sauces and jars of peppers. One of the first times dad took me to breakfast I was about 9 years old and seated across from me was the old Norski salesman. Carl ordered “4 eggs, snotty and couple of dem hot sausages, then”. When Carl’s breakfast was served, the eggs were close to raw, he took the cap off the pepper blackened the eggs, threw on a handfull of green chiles and covered it all with a hot sauce Red concocted. With a slice of toast in one hand and his fork in the other he dug in. Carl noticed my eyes were as big as saucers, he stopped eating and said to me,
“yah know, sonny boy, my taste buds ain’t what dey usta be”!
scarshapedstar
@Jager:
Yeah, in fairness, I don’t think anyone can honestly describe lutefisk as “bland”. But it ain’t full of chili peppers, neither…
Will
@
This would perhaps make sense in the context of some group thing of young males, but some people really DO like things as hot as they can handle.
When I make a quesadilla at 2am crammed with Habaneros, who am I showing off to when I’m the only one awake?
kindness
Out of left field (of course it’s out of left field), I’d like to spread a little love for the SF Giants…..
We’re about to hit the playoffs for the first time since 2003 (I think). With the pitching we’ve got it may be time to jump on the bandwagon…
Go Giants! Kick Padre butt this weekend then keep kickin’ ass through October.
kathleen
@kindness: I am officially on the Giants bandwagon.
kathleen
@kdaug: forgot about the double bagged thingy….yup, gotta double bag. gotta.
Jager
@scarshapedstar:
My Norwegian Grandma made Lutefisk once a year, a Christmas bow to tradition. None of the kids would eat it so she supplied us with baked chicken smothered in cream. My dad and his sister would only eat Lutefisk with a pile of mashed potato, cream gravy and melted butter, apparently anything to cover up the taste. The old timers, however, would really get into it, of course they were big consumers of pickled herring, head cheese and just about anything that disgusted the children. I often wondered if they actually ate that shit when they were kids. I can’t tell you the number of times I was told by Grandma’s brother that Lutefisk was a big “treat”…opposed to what they normally ate on the farm growing up. Lets see, they grew up eating original free range chicken, fresh garden vegetables, eggs fresh from the chicken coop, farm raised pork and beef, fresh butter, smoked on the farm ham and bacon and all the food we revere today. WTF?
Corner Stone
@Will:
I sorta agree with others that there is a small number of people for who it’s about macho more than what they really like. But I think once you get past college age if you’re still torturing your taste buds on a dare or to impress someone then there are other issues to address.
I just happen to really enjoy food that is very spicy.
My grandpa used to pick fresh jalapeno out of his garden, slice it and eat it on a cracker with sliced cheddar cheese as a snack. Who was he impressing at 72 years old?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Corner Stone:
That’s one of my favorite snacks although I’m not much of a spicy food eater. Fresh jalapenos are very nutritious.
Will
That sounds awesome. Fresh jalapenos, yum.
One thing about peppers I’ve noticed is that over the past 4-6ish years or so, the hot peppers in grocery stores have gotten bigger, rounder, fatter, huger…..like they’re all grown in hothouses with growth hormones or something.
And….they often aren’t that hot anymore. I almost never buy jalapenos because the heat isn’t there in those fat jumbo versions.
My ‘standard’ one is serrano, but even those don’t seem as hot as they used to, so I’ve kicked it up to habenero for a lot of things.
I wonder if the heat level really IS lower, or if I’m just imagining it.
p.a.
I like heat-for-heat’s sake (NOT talking raw habanero here), but when done right, usually in my experience at good Thai restaurants, the heat seems to ‘open up’ the taste buds to make them more sensitive to other seasonings/flavors.
Corner Stone
@Will:
It really is hit or miss, even with the jalapenos I have grown myself.
Get a few that have good flavor and crunch but no heat, then bite into one that makes you run for the milk jug.
I’m sure it can be explained but I don’t have the answer. It’s why I always use several, just to be sure.
Corner Stone
@Just Some Fuckhead: Oh, get on with yourself you humorless ponce.
Yutsano
@MolyBloom:
Have you looked into Uwajimaya? I know they’re pretty good at stocking up on Asian foods of all kinds not just Japanese. The place is huge, I could get lost for hours in there.
And y’all made me whip out Gary Allan.
ignobility
I like food hot enough to turn my face red. It’s nice to have a little color now and then. Also, endorphins.
el loco
@mclaren: Finally someone that addressed the fact that hotness brings out a gamit of amazing flavors!