I’m waiting for the first principle supporter of personal liberty at Reason to talk about how great this is:
Alaska Dispatch founder and editor Tony Hopfinger was grabbed and handcuffed by a private security detail working for U.S. Senate candidate Joe Miller on Sunday while trying to ask the Fairbanks Republican questions following a town hall meeting at Central Middle School in Anchorage on Sunday.
Hopfinger was reportedly pressing Miller on whether the candidate had ever been reprimanded for politicking while working at the Fairbanks North Star Borough in 2008. Alaska Dispatch and other media have sued for the release of records related Miller’s time at the borough. Various accounts of what happened next generally agree on this course of events:
- Two or three bodyguards told Hopfinger to stop asking questions and to leave the building.
- Hopfinger continued to ask questions while apparently videotaping the candidate.
- Bodyguards told him that if he persisted they would arrest him for trespassing, but refused to identify themselves to Hopfinger.
- Hopfinger asked why he was trespassing, as the event was at a public school. Seconds later, he was then put in arm-bar and later handcuffed and sequestered at one end of a hallway for at least 30 minutes. He was told, “You’re under arrest.”
- Anchorage Police arrived on the scene shortly after.
Here’s video of these rent-a-cop whack jobs in action, harassing a reporter who is interviewing Hopfinger about this:
TR
The Tea Party has to destroy freedom in order to save it.
Sue
“Don’t taze me, Bro!”
MikeJ
If they can make a citizen’s arrest, can I give them a citizen’s tasering?
polyorchnid octopunch
He wants to be the first to ride the “I’ve got mine (own private army) so fuck you.”
John Bird
It’s the essence of the American dream, to become The Penguin on the old Adam West Batman Show.
“GET ‘IM BOYS!”
West of the Cascades
All of those boys would look right at home in SS uniforms and/or brown shirts.
Davis X. Machina
I’m sorry, Mr. Hopfinger, but in America you don’t have the right to be wrong. You have the right to be right. And to praise Jesus!
BGinCHI
I’m starting to think we’re going to have to pull this country over and beat Alaska’s ass.
jon
What’s a Teabagger doing having his event at a public school? Never mind the question of whether or not it was a public forum, but why would someone like him support such an institution when there are many private places in which to hold events. Either he’s a hypocrite or he’s just a jerk who doesn’t want to support private businesses. My guess? Yes.
El Cid
Let’s say that it’s a private event and they can ask you to leave. Can private employees (legally) not just ask you to leave but physically remove you? Is there any provision where they can handcuff you?
[As far as them acting or looking like dicks, I don’t so much mind when, say, concert security looks the same. And I have seen physical ‘force’ or whatever used to keep crazed idiots from leaping onstage.]
bozack
It’s privately employed bodyguards, not the feds. This was a great patriotic detention. The undesirable element should have been held until he publicly admitted his grievous sins against the Alaskan people.
KG
my favorite part of the whole story is that despite renting out a room at a public school, and posting a public invitation on the internet, the
thugssecurity officers said it was a private event and he was trespassing. my second favorite part of the story (that’s not really part of the story) is that according to 538, this is turning into a legit three way race at the moment.celticdragonchick
He needs to have pepper spray or something similar at any event, and other reporters should do so as well. We are seeing that tne notion of an independent press is under attack, and that reporters in this country are being physically assaulted.
Ash Can
@TR:
Yep.
licensed to kill time
Welcome to Tea Party Gulag, citizen.
dmsilev
Per TPM, Miller seems to think that for border security, we should be looking to East Germany as a role model. Perhaps he thinks the Stasi are also worthy of emulation?
dms
celticdragonchick
@El Cid:
Even better…can you use potentially deadly force to defend yourself if you are being assaulted and threatened with false imprisonment?
El Cid
@jon: It’s the one time that actual value has been added to a school. Their visit there was a gift of an appearance by Real Murkins.
eric
AP (Alaska) Not even the genius of Turing or Tarski could delve so deeply in the logical underpinnings of our three-dimensional reality. Now, just weeks away from America’s mid-term 2010 elections, logicians around the world are crowing about the new fundamental law of logic: If GOP then Godwin. “It truly is remarkable that something so remarkably powerful has remained hidden for so long, but with the emergence of Tea Partiers, logicians everywhere came to the same conclusion, thus avoiding the need for any peer-reviewed publication,” said Wilhelm von Wilhelm of the International Federation of Logicians.
freelancer
Obama’s a communist, sockalist, fascist! In fact, everyone I don’t agree with is a Marxists. They’re ALL Marxists! That’s why we need to keep sending manufacturing jobs to China and why we should adopt East Germany’s border security measures.
Someone call Jeremy Renner, my head’s about to asplode.
@dmsilev:
terrorist fist-jab.
El Cid
@celticdragonchick: I wouldn’t actually be surprised if private hired security guards could tase you without consequence to them.
Mark S.
False imprisonment? I’m pretty sure he could sue the living shit out of Miller.
El Cid
@freelancer: Also, Obama’s so-called “Justice” Dept (i.e., ACORN mafia) is now imposing Sha-na-na law in Tennessseeeee.
Violet
This jackbooted thug thing is terrible and is getting a lot of attention (as it should), but Miller’s comments about East Germany being a role model really should be getting the most attention.
Miller thinks a former Soviet bloc country that built a wall to keep its people in is the country we should be emulating? So much for Reagan and his “tear down this wall” attitude. That GOP is no more.
KG
@El Cid: generally speaking? Not really. There is the shopkeeper’s privilege which is more a defense to false imprisonment (allows a store owner to hold someone until the police arrive if they believe the person is shop lifting). The use of force in defense of person or property varies from state to state (obviously, if someone is threatening to burn your house down, you’re response can be different than if a dude is standing on your lawn smoking a cigarette).
Ash Can
@Violet: The lunatic right has come full circle — they’ve become what they hate the most.
R-Jud
@freelancer:
SNORT.
But didn’t you know? He has said he’s not the Tea Party candidate. AK Muckraker’s got the e-mails to prove it.
Loneoak
If Hopfinger knew his Internet Traditions (TM), he would have shouted “Dude you have no Koran!” at the rent-a-gestapos once the police freed him.
I hope they sue the hell out of Miller and his mini-militia.
Violet
@Ash Can:
They have become what they
claimthey hate the most. I’m not sure they do hate it. I think they’re happy to trash the Constitution and people’s rights, so long as “their side” wins. Nevermind the country. The collective good is for pussies.El Cid
@KG: I’ve seen scenarios where some dude started yelling shit in a store, and the security guys just did what the Miller guys did in terms of surrounding & isolating, and just repeatedly asking him to leave, though quietly, and the manager informing the guy he had 30 seconds to leave voluntarily from private property or the police will be called to remove him. I think the guy left, or maybe I stopped paying attention at some point.
I sure as hell don’t remember these big burly store security dudes (apparently this group was all into body-building) pushing the guy anywhere or threatening him with handcuffs.
Again, I’ll still guess that tasers will soon be allowed.
El Cid
@Ash Can: What do they hate? They’ve always loved force and oppression. Just not by soshullist gubmits. It’s not the force and violence.
kdaug
Man, this is full of win that I’m contractually obligated to drink some Canadian whiskey before commenting.
Violet
Oops, that “claim” in my comment was supposed to be in italics, not strikethrough.
John PM
@West of the Cascades: No kidding. Nothing like shaved-headed youth to give one the feeling of thuggery. And this just after we were discussing Bob Roberts and The Dead Zone in an earlier thread.
Redshirt
As always with the Wingnuts, “Projection” is the guiding principle. When they tell you the Dems are coming for you with their “Jack-Booted thugs”, what they mean is, they are.
Projection seems to work with everything the Repuglican party is up to these days.
celticdragonchick
@El Cid:
Then it may be time to start making sure there are consequences.
Anybody asking questions of Joe MIller should have an inconspicuous backup person with Grizzly Pepper spray.
El Cid
@Loneoak: “Go fuck yourself Mr. Cheney!“
Splitting Image
Does the dumbass not even know which part of Germany the illegal immigrants were trying to get into?
El Cid
@celticdragonchick: That’s not how it would work. If you’re the security dudes for the powerful and conservative, the use of tasers would be approved. If you attempt in any way to defend yourself as a citizen or activist or journalist or in some way a librul, you will be arrested and charged.
Tulip
The Drop Zone (the business behind Miller’s private security) was a sponsor of Palin apologist and former radio host, Eddie Burke. The DZ bragged to patrons about their security squad being littered with former Blackwater operatives. Not disclosing full names and a preference for cash transactions were commonplace.
I also think McAdams gets a big win for tweeting this:
“@JoeWMiller – in case you were unaware, the Constitution also applies to reporters.”
from the Mudflats via Crooks and Liars
Ajay
This is completely ok because only an unpatriotic, Un-american blogger was arrested. Real Americans want it this way.
Freedom is never free.
Violet
@Tulip:
Scott McAdams is awesome. I think I need to send him a few more bucks. I really hope he closes strong and wins this thing. He seems like a really good guy, from everything I’ve seen. Plus it seems that Alaskan voters really like him, now that he’s been getting out and meeting people around the state. Go Scott!
El Cid
@Redshirt: Remember, the patriot militias had to provoke a martial law crackdown (i.e., blowing up the Murragh Federal Bldg) in order to save us from the imminent government oppression.
Likewise, we need to raise the retirement age and cut benefits now for Social Security or else it won’t all be there in the future for those recipients.
Cris
I took my niece to a hardcore/emo show a few years back, where the acts on stage were openly praising the security, and chastising the crowd not to disrespect them. “They’re here for your safety, you nitwits!” was the general tone from the stage.
Now, an old-schooler of my generation would probably shake his head in sorrow at this story, lamenting the voluntary capitulation of supposed “punks” to the security state. Personally, I found it kind of refreshing that the younger generation can tell the difference between oppression and prevention.
BGinCHI
Has David Broder pointed out that “both sides are doing this” yet?
Obviously reporters are arresting GOP candidates and holding them until they talk. David Gregory, for example.
freelancer
@El Cid:
The Sharia fear is so stupid and hyperbolic as to be point and laugh hilarious to me.
It’d be like in the Eighties, if someone made the Sign of the Cross in public, wingers would audibly scream, and, with urine-soaked pants, run shrieking “OMFG! Irish Terrorists!”
Soup! We’re gnashing our teeth over fucking soup now…
BLAAAARGH!
Paris
You know who else used a private militia of jack booted thugs?
Chuck Butcher
Putting your hands on someone is risky business, it can pretty easily be construed as an assault when not under an official flag. There is typically a concept of reasonable response to assault, that really varies by state and situation. While I don’t know AK law, I’d guess that whatever level of violence was required to prevent or stop an assault is legal.
I’m not a newspaper editor, there’d have been a real fight with little concern on my part for their health outcomes.
jl
I hope the reporter can sue for false arrest, and does so.
Meanwhile, I am wondering if the glibertarians at Reason have had anything to say about this stuff yet. Anyone know?
Mortgage foreclosure uproar sweeps up Northeast Ohioans
Published: Sunday, October 17, 2010, 6:00 AM Updated: Monday, October 18, 2010, 8:37 AM
Teresa Dixon Murray, The Plain Dealer
Michael and Pamella Negrea have never been late on a mortgage payment in the 15 years they’ve owned their home in Eastlake. But they’ve been foreclosed on three times.
Martin and Kirsten Davis, meanwhile, lost their home in Cleveland to foreclosure two years ago. The reason: a mess that started when they accidentally paid 14 cents too little on their monthly payment.
And Michael Rendes of Berea had his mortgage sold last year to Bank of America. The bank foreclosed on him in November, after insisting for months that it didn’t hold his loan and wouldn’t accept his payments.
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/10/mortgage_foreclosure_uproar_sw.html
The New Tax Man: Big Banks And Hedge Funds
By Fred Schulte and Ben Protess
Huffington Post Investigative Fund
Nearly a dozen major banks and hedge funds, anticipating quick profits from homeowners who fall behind on property taxes, are quietly plowing hundreds of millions of dollars into businesses that collect the debts, tack on escalating fees and threaten to foreclose on the homes of those who fail to pay.
The Wall Street investors, which include Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase & Co., have purchased from local governments the right to collect delinquent taxes on several hundred thousand properties, many in distressed housing markets…
In many cases, the banks and hedge funds created new companies to do their bidding. They gave the companies obscure, even whimsical names and used post office boxes as their addresses, masking Wall Street’s dominant new role as a surrogate tax collector.
In exchange for paying overdue real estate taxes, the investors gain legal powers from local governments to collect the debt and levy fees. At first, property owners may owe little more than a few hundred dollars, only to find their bills soaring into the thousands. In some jurisdictions, the new Wall Street tax collectors also chase debtors over other small bills, such as for water, sewer and sidewalk repair.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/18/the-new-tax-man-big-banks_n_766169.html
MERS-y, Mercy Me: The Sewer Drain at the Bottom of the Housing Market
By: David Dayen Sunday October 17
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/10/17/mers-y-mercy-me-the-sewer-drain-at-the-bottom-of-the-housing-market/
Edit: all found in a very brutal minute reading Atrios.
John Bird
@John PM:
It’s so weird. I always thought that the Dead Zone was one hell of a fantasy in American politics. I agreed with one of King’s own characters in the book – that after Nixon, we’d never accept an up and coming political movement that included brownshirts of any description.
Ah, well. All it took was FREE MARKET PHILOSOPHY.
gbear
Remember, all you folks in AK who can’t vote for a D, it’s
L-I-S-A M-U-R-K-O-W-S-K-I
L-I-S-A M-U-R-K-O-W-S-K-I
L-I-S-A
M-U-R-
K-O-W-
S-K-I
Nylund
The right wing sites are also pushing this story, only in their version, Hopfinger was the first to start pushing people around and the security guards had no choice but to restrain him. In his, they chest bumped and pushed him first, prompting him to push back.
Personally, I think Greedo shot first.
In all seriousness, I’d bet my life savings that the hired guards were the first to get physical. It doesn’t matter though, the wingnuts will claim otherwise and CNN will stick to its, “viewpoints differ” routine in the name of impartial objectivity over truth.
Timmy Mac
I do notice they’re a lot less inclined to “arrest” people when an actual cop is present.
Midnight Marauder
@Nylund:
In all honesty, it’s pretty irrelevant whether or not Joe Miller’s Goon Squad got physical first. They possessed no legitimate authority to detain Hopfinger. None. At all. Whatsoever.
Unfortunately for them, a reporter was trying to do his job, only to be impeded by a security force that had not a single credible reason to even be at the event in question.
LanceThruster
Soon, every tin-pot hopeful will want their own Praetorian Guard.
debbie
@ Violet:
I think what he really admires is that their way to keep anyone from escaping was to shoot to kill.
Dan
There’s at least an argument that what they did to him constituted kidnapping. That’s not to say they’ll go and criminally charge the security company, but a civil suit for unlawful detention would probably be successful. I don’t know what kind of agreement the campaign had with the company, but I wonder whether they could go after the campaign too.
Meanwhile, i think this does a nice job of crystallizing the tea party’s conception of libertarianism — freedom for like-minded individuals, no freedom for everyone else.
El Cid
@Cris: The entire last few songs of a concert by a big name group I attended was fucked up because some jackass somehow jumped on stage and basically shocked and pissed off the band, who never really regained their flow after that. I hope his friends or whatever beat the ever-living shit out of him for fucking up the last god-damned section of that show.
Jason Smith
Hey all,
Working for Scott McAdams and he told me to drop by and thank you all for the great support through ActBlue. You guys have given almost $7,000 through the Balloon Juice account, which is amazing.
I am told that Tunch has maxed out to the campaign but Rosie still has a long way to go. We respect our feline overlords here.
Jason
KCinDC
@gbear, we don’t want *too* many people voting for Murkowski, though. Ideally Murkowski and Miller will split the Republican vote very close to 50-50 and allow McAdams to win with 35-40%.
jl
@Midnight Marauder: The news story I read at Talkingpointsmemo said that in Alaska, private security firms have broad powers of ‘citizen’s arrest’.
This will an interesting case to follow. The thing was a public event held on public property, so seems to me that the evidence should be pretty strong that the reporter ‘started it’ for this to go away.
El Cid
@jl: That’s a good point to make. If they’re authorized by state laws to do what they did, or if it comes close, I guess there’s little to be done, except wait for yet another Joe Miller moment of stupid.
Bubblegum Tate
@Redshirt:
Remember when teabaggers were freaking out that Obama was going to have his own private Gestapo (which we non-crazies know by their more traditional name, the Peace Corps, or, more recently, the Ready Reserve Corps)? Good times, good times….
TCG
At least Joe Miller is smart enough not to let these security guys dress in brown.
Smooth move on Miller’s part.
j
Not an expert by any means, but every one of those goons all look like they were born with fetal alcohol syndrome.
And what is the deal with the white ear pieces? Is it meant to make them look “important” as opposed to “stupid”?
jl
@El Cid: But did you watch that clip? They look like thugs and act like thugs. Unless I missed something their bossman yells at people that they are ‘breaking the law” without explaining anything else in order to intimidate people.
Hey, can I do that if I make a citizen’s arrest? What right do these skinheads in suits have preventing the stuff from being filmed.
Did these guys tell the reporter he was ‘breaking the law’ by asking this goon Miller questions he didn’t like at a public meeting on public property?
I don’t know what the deal is in Alaska. I guess it matters what the state law says, and what the local political muscle wants to do and what it can get away with. Having lived up there for awhile and having quite a bit of family up there tell me the gossip, I suspect the second is the more important. No offense to old time Alaskans, but I seen things up there.
Edit: I am not a lawyer, but am wondering if they had the right to basically act like law enforcement in authority at a public meeting, when according to TPM, Alaska law gives them authority to make citizen’s arrests, not run the place. I didn’t read that they were recognized as officers of the law in any sense.
It looks to me like they were trying to control things under the color of law. Which might be OK up there, but I would not want to live in a state that allowed that kind of thing.
El Cid
@jl: I’m not objecting that they acted like dickwad thugs, and would explain nothing. I was just noting that it’s possible (I have zero knowledge) that their actions, however thuggish, might have been legal.
AhabTRuler
@El Cid: Hey, I shared the stage for 5 seconds with Bad Brains, and HR didn’t even hit me with a mic stand. ‘Course, I knew enough not to fuck with the musicians, other than to give HR a pound, and then it’s back onto the crowd with me!
OTOH, I have also had bouncers think it’s a hoot to haul people over the rail by their nuts, so it breaks both ways.
Dan
Seems the key question is what the conduct was on the part of Hopfinger that would give security the right to make an arrest. The fact that the police got there and ordered him released suggests that they didn’t think he had done anything criminal.
A shoplifter can be detained by private security if they are spotted stealing something. This guy was just asking questions at a public forum.
El Cid
More freedom of speech, and getting back at those fucking Commie progressives inspired by Teddy Roosevelt.
Yes, but corporate mining barons are people too, and trying to stop them from completely dominating state politics and making states into their cesspools of exploited labor are just part of the normal to & fro of politics.
El Cid
That Commie progressive Teddy Roosevelt on how to crush the freedom of corporate people, 1910.
Such dangerous subversive extremist partisan soshullist anti-success rhetoric would never be tolerated today, on either side of the political aisle.
Midnight Marauder
@jl:
Except, again, there was never any act of wrongdoing, which is still a necessary component for a citizen’s arrest to be a legitimate act, as opposed to a bunch of clowns falsely imprisoning someone for exercising their basic rights. The entire reason Hopfinger was “arrested” and detained was Joe Miller’s Goon Squad’s insistence that Hopfinger was “trespassing.” At a public event. At a public school. That was announced online. And open to everyone to attend.
Even for a citizen’s arrest to take place, there still needs to be an initial act of wrongdoing, which is most certainly NOT the case in this instance.
Lynnia
Obviously Miller needs to take more lessons from the Chinese. Remember this from the 20th anniversary of Tiananamen Square? (Go to about 1:07) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGHd2bPn4ZU
tofubo
come on, they’ll obviously paint this as the freedom to arrest and detain people @ your whim
check the Constitution, under Article 1, Section 2, under the “cus i fucking said so provision” written in there there abouts, too, also the freedom of speech means the stifling the speech of other freedom lovers, just talk to edith
jl
@Midnight Marauder: By ‘started it’ I meant that the reporter did something illegal, like assault someone. By ‘started it’ I did not meant that the reporter merely made a nuisance of himself (at a public meeting on public property) by asking questions that Miller did not want to be asked. So I think we basically agree.
If it is the latter case, I hope that security outfit is sued out of business.
JITC
What’s up with the actual cops in this? Why did they back up the private security thugs? One actually claims Joe Miller “rented” the entire school (unlikely) and that such renting prevents reporters from attending the event and even being in areas having nothing to do with the event.
This is all weirdness.
jl
@JITC:
“This is all weirdness.”
This is Alaska!
Litlebritdifrnt
“skinheads in suits”
Nailed it right there.
Midnight Marauder
@jl:
Indeed, we are definitely in agreement on this issue. And fortunately, it just keeps getting better for the people on our side of things. Apparently, the good people at DropZone Security Services (aka – Joe Miller’s Goon Squad) don’t possess a business license. It expired at the end of 2009.
Good one, Joe Miller.
Florida Cynic
@Litlebritdifrnt: My thoughts exactly.
Bill Murray
When was Arizona in the Sovier bloc? or is Joe Arpaio the new Erich Mielke?
Bella Q
@Midnight Marauder: Interestingly, someone at maybe Mudflats pointed out that the business license for Joe Miller Law Firm expired in 2005, so apparently it isn’t such a big deal in AK.
Bella Q
@Bella Q: It seems to be true link to AK commerce site
AxelFoley
@BGinCHI:
Quote of the night! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
PanurgeATL
@Nylund:
Only too glad to open this can of worms again, but this is why I’ve always favored hippies, as annoying as they can be, over punks. For all their aggression, punks don’t seem any more useful to me than hippies, and punk made a home in rock’n’roll for the get a haircut you DFH stance at exactly the wrong time, for which it still hasn’t really atoned. The punk world is marginally more desirable than the “square” one, but not by that much.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Bella Q: Requiring a valid license is such a soshulist Kenyan thing. Patriots know better than to support their own oppression.
Jim Pharo
It’s funny to hear you guys talk about “no legal authority” and “sue the shit out of Miller,” etc. That was the old America you remember from your youth. Today, we no longer have the “rule of law,” so jack-booted thugs are free to take any actions their paymasters desire.
Still, it’s sort of cute that you remember the old days…
JRon
Those are hired private guards.
So any harassment from them is Libertarian-approved.
djheru
@Ash Can: Intelligent, compassionate humans with well-developed reasoning abilities? That I wouldn’t mind so much…
LanceThruster
@Midnight Marauder:
Beeznees lie-senz?!? We don’t need no steenkeen beeznees lie-senz!
That’s for dirty f#cking heepeez!
Ummmmmm......
Interestingly, it seems to be largely (but not entirely) unreported that two of the security dudes in question were active-duty military personnel, moonlighting by working for a private security company.