Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

This blog will pay for itself.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

This fight is for everything.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

No one could have predicted…

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Open Thread: “Recession? What Recession?”

Open Thread: “Recession? What Recession?”

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Another not-so-respectful note, from Tim Heffernan at Esquire, to our Galtian masters of the financial universe:

Just a brief observation: as I write, the Dow is up one hundred fifty-plus points on the day, to something over 11,100. It is up more than 4,500 points since its recessional low point — 6626.94 on March 9, 2009 — or nearly 70 percent in less than two years. I am just guessing here, but I would bet that it has never achieved that much growth in that short a time in its history.
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In any other climate, investment banks would be crowing over their profits, and politicians would be stampeding to the microphones to claim their share of credit. But this is a recession (okay, officially it no longer is one, but as with obscenity…), and there is no advantage to bankers or politicians in pointing out the blindingly obvious: that the economic health of this country can no longer be gauged by the height of the Dow. Bragging about massive profits and fat returns at this point would be vulgar, if not outright suicidal.
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Still, it bears pointing out that Wall Street has figured out how to make money — megatons of it — in the midst of an economic disaster, and that the method does not involve job creation. Remember, too, that the Dow measures expected future value, and it is signaling that the future value of American corporations is skyrocketing at a time when 17.1 percent of eligible Americans are out of work or working reduced hours. The unemployed who are pinning their hopes to the GOP and its corporatist platform might want to ponder that for minute or two, and ask whether — to update the old saw — what’s good for Goldman is good for America.

Reader Interactions

57Comments

  2. 2.

    Mark S.

    As someone was saying the other day, at least with GM you knew what they made. I don’t know what the fuck Goldman does, and I’m not sure if our lives would be any poorer if Goldman all of the sudden disappeared from the face of the earth.

  3. 3.

    arguingwithsignposts

    that the economic health of this country can no longer be gauged by the height of the Dow.

    Note: it never could be measured by the height of the Dow, except by lazy stenographers in the business press.

  4. 4.

    Davis X. Machina

    On the on hand, my 403(b) is considerably healthier than it was.

    On the other hand, there’s no conceivable way in hell I can leave it untouched till I’m 59 1/2, if I’m laid off in the spring and have to draw it down to, oh, I don’t know, eat and stuff.

    Which seems likely.

  6. 6.

    Daddy-O

    Goldman is in the kleptocracy biz. And business is GOOD.

    What’s good for America is good for Goldman, but not necessarily the other way around. And what’s bad for America is even BETTER for Goldman…

    The 1% of the super-rich who own 34% of all wealth in this country will be with us always, Republican Jesus says…

  7. 7.

    Brachiator

    the economic health of this country can no longer be gauged by the height of the Dow. Bragging about massive profits and fat returns at this point would be vulgar, if not outright suicidal.

    I stopped paying attention to the DOW around the time that I noticed that market rallies often were seen as a reaction to companies becoming “more efficient” by merging and laying off workers.

  8. 8.

    BR

    As I mentioned in another thread a few days back, a large part of this is due to The Fed.

    They’ve been pouring electronic money into the financial system on a weekly basis – on the order of tens of billions per week. They are buying US treasuries and preannounce which they’ll be buying. The big banks borrow from the Fed at 0% interest, buy treasuries that yield 3.5% and then sell those back to the Fed and pocket the profit. Then then either give these out as bonuses or use that profit to borrow more money from the Fed to then buy up stocks (some of which are derivatives). But the money isn’t real.

  9. 9.

    MikeJ

    @arguingwithsignposts: This goes back to a discussion last week, “why I hate APR’s Marketplace.” When a company lays off 50,000 workers causing the stock market to go up and then they play “We’re in the Money” I want to kick everybody associated with the show in the nuts, or other genitalia they may have.

  10. 10.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    We have been detached from reality for too long to return to it without some major disaster, and I mean major. Extreme suffering, death and destruction on an unimaginable scale. For too long the measure of our economic well-being has been how well the top earners are doing, all the while everyone else just quietly suffers to make ends meet. We have now arrived at the point where the rich are angry because they view themselves as the real people who are suffering, that they alone matter and everything else pales beside them.

    All the rich have left is to stir up hate and discontent against the ‘Other’, and this ‘other’ gets the blame for all that ails the ones they riled up. All the while the rich are quietly (and not so quietly) doing everything they can to put themselves back in power so they can finish wiping the country out. Right now, Republican supporters are little more than useful idiots, many working hard to to be as useful as they can so they can get in on some of that rich-guy-shoveling-out-the-cash- action out there before it dries up.

    Too many in our government believe that if the rich are doing well then everyone else will do well. They have lost touch with the country they sought to represent, all they want to do is profit. One way or another, that is all they are looking for. They have sold out to the highest bidder and the voters have lost. Problem is that too many voters are too damned stupid to see this for what it is.

  13. 13.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    Still, it bears pointing out that Wall Street has figured out how to make money — megatons of it — in the midst of an economic disaster, and that the method does not involve job creation.

    Our Lords and Masters will create jobs* as soon as every person in America personally thanks them for being rich and not a minute before.

    Or something.

    Someone go ask Rich Person Expert A. Sullivan what the hell we’re supposed to do.

  16. 16.

    MikeJ

    @Jamie: The stock market going up has nothing to do with profits, merely with the expectation that you’ll be able to find a sucker who will pay more per share than you did.

  17. 17.

    Jewish Steel

    @Sly:

    I saw this earlier. Pretty sweet.

    Some commenter mentioned that he had mastered the keeping of a straight face while O’Crazy flounders and spews. So Kung Fu Master is a pretty good characterization but maybe Zen Master is better.

  19. 19.

    jrg

    The unemployed who are pinning their hopes to the GOP and its corporatist platform might want to ponder that for minute or two, and ask whether — to update the old saw — what’s good for Goldman is good for America.

    I’m convinced that a lot of people who vote for the GOP do so simply because it’s a form of affirmation that makes them feel better about themselves… Kind of like going to church, or attending a white power rally. It brings a feeling of superiority without them having to do anything to achieve it. Economics has very little to do with it.

  21. 21.

    burnspbesq

    Not everything bad in the Universe can be laid at the feet of Goldman Sachs. Rahm is responsible for some of it.

  22. 22.

    Sentient Puddle

    If there was any justice in the world, this realization would be the final stake in the heart of trickle-down theory.

    ETA: @Cris: Could always go with “You Never Give Me Your Money”

  23. 23.

    Mike in NC

    17.1 percent of eligible Americans are out of work or working reduced hours.

    The GOP has a fix for this: 25-30% unemployment in 2011, and no benefits for the lazy, greedy proles.

  25. 25.

    Davis X. Machina

    The GOP has a fix for this: 25-30% unemployment in 2011, and no benefits for the lazy, greedy proles.

    Watch the Tories in the UK.

    It’s Thatcher in ’79, Reagan in ’81 all over again — ‘You guys jump first…’

  31. 31.

    mclaren

    …the Dow measures expected future value, and it is signaling that the future value of American corporations is skyrocketing at a time when 17.1 percent of eligible Americans are out of work or working reduced hours.

    No, the Dow is signaling that the future value of American corporations is skyrocketing because 17.1 percent of eligible Americans are out of work of work or working reduced hours.

    Dig it: the more American jobs U.S. businesses ship overseas, the more profit U.S. businesses make. Therefore the logical and necessary end result is that to maximize profits, American businesses must ship all American jobs overseas. Leaving no jobs for Americans. And therefore no tax base. And therefore no revenue.

    If you deduce that the elites who run American society haven’t quite thought this whole thing through, you’d be correct.

  32. 32.

    Dennis SGMM

    You have to look at things the right way: I for one get a lot of satisfaction from knowing that if my income is averaged with that of, say, Lloyd Blankfein, then our average income is billions. That’s why we should be so very, very grateful to the rich.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    OT: Hang on to your wigs and keys, folks, a major media outlet has done something unstupid:

    NPR Ends Analyst’s Contract After Comments on Muslims
    By BRIAN STELTER
    Published: October 20, 2010
    NPR has terminated its contract with Juan Williams, one of its senior news analysts, after he made comments about Muslims on the Fox News Channel.

    long fucking overdue. Get ready for some epic pity-partying that is gonna make Ginny Thomas look like Gary Fuckin’ Cooper, as Tony Soprano called him. The whole Fox line-up will come together as one to condemn this violation of the First Amendment.
    ETA, from the NYT article”Alicia C. Shepard, the NPR ombudswoman, said at the time that Mr. Williams was a “lightning rod” for the public radio organization in part because he “tends to speak one way on NPR and another on Fox.”
    Ms. Shepard said she had received 378 listener e-mails in 2008 listing complaints and frustrations about Mr. Williams.”
    Is that all? Barely more than one a day? Half of those were mine.

  37. 37.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus: Shockingly enough, he agreed with everything Bill O’Reilly said. IN this case about Muslims being terrorists, and he took it a step further and pretty much declared us to be at war with all Muslims.

    Mr. Williams also made reference to the Pakistani immigrant who pleaded guilty this month to trying to plant a car bomb in Times Square. “He said the war with Muslims, America’s war is just beginning, first drop of blood. I don’t think there’s any way to get away from these facts,” Mr. Williams said.

    SO that hump who forgot his keys and tried to blow up Times Square with some Coleman propane? He declared us at war with several billion people from Indonesia to Senegal to Keith Ellison

  38. 38.

    Davis X. Machina

    I’m so old I remember when Juan Williams was black, and a liberal.

    Now get off my lawn.

  40. 40.

    Dennis SGMM

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    SO that hump who forgot his keys and tried to blow up Times Square with some Coleman propane? He declared us at war with several billion people from Indonesia to Senegal to Keith Ellison.

    As if good ol’ American racism and nativism ever needed a more substantial excuse.

  41. 41.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Dennis SGMM: Fox Pup Juan Williams and smarmy PUMA Scott Simon, a Saturday morning combination that makes me hope for some Journey on the Geezer Rock station

  45. 45.

    El Cid

    It’s actually quite sad that capital is still restrained by the presence of consumers. Perhaps someday the owners of capital will finally be free of the burden of such a large population of people who get in their way of shifting capital back and forth in profitable transactions, transactions which in no way need to be tied to some sort of old-fashioned ‘commodity’ or ‘property’ or identifiable ‘service’.

  47. 47.

    Martin

    @MikeJ: Yeah. Corporate profits really aren’t suffering here, as evidenced by the market performance.

    Government isn’t the entity that needs to bail out the economy, business is.

    I have some Apple stock. I’ve done alright by them, but they’re bringing in $20B in profits per year. I can’t see that number and not see 300,000 jobs that could have been made (at the US median income, including benefits). That would be enough to reduce the California jobless rate by 15%. The largest state in the country. The 3rd highest unemployment rate in the country (12.5%). Just one company. Toss in Intel’s $12B and Google’s $10B, and California’s 3 biggest companies could reduce the state’s unemployment rate from 12.5% to 9%. 700,000 really good jobs, and the only people that would be impacted would be investors. For crappy jobs ($12/hr + benefits!), they could reduce the unemployment rate in California by 50%. Minimum wage, no benefits, they could wipe it out completely. 3 companies!

    Sure, those investors are a lot of retirement funds and such, but still. US businesses are sitting on a LOT of cash to fix the economy.

  49. 49.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    I think it would be cool if some multimedia genius on the left would put together a video compilation of corruption with the backing tune being Action, by The Sweet. The sounds of “Liar! Liar!, Liar!’, the cash register cha-ching  and the “you bled me dry, with your insatiable greed” all seem a good fit.

  52. 52.

    morzer

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/20/beck-koch-chamber-meeting/

    Worth reading in full, if rather horrifying to contemplate.

    ThinkProgress has obtained a memo outlining the details of the last Koch gathering held in June of this year. The memo, along with an attendee list of about 210 people, shows the titans of industry — from health insurance companies, oil executives, Wall Street investors, and real estate tycoons — working together with conservative journalists and Republican operatives to plan the 2010 election, as well as ongoing conservative efforts through 2012. According to the memo, David Chavern, the number two at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Fox News hate-talker Glenn Beck also met with these representatives of the corporate elite. In an election season with the most undisclosed secret corporate giving since the Watergate-era, the memo sheds light on the symbiotic relationship between extremely profitable, multi-billion dollar corporations and much of the conservative infrastructure. The memo describes the prospective corporate donors as “investors,” and it makes clear that many of the Republican operatives managing shadowy, undisclosed fronts running attack ads against Democrats were involved in the Koch’s election-planning event

  55. 55.

    Mark S.

    “I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot. You know the kind of books I’ve written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

    Well, Juan, now you know how your Fox News colleagues feel when you walk in a room. They get worried. They get nervous.

  57. 57.

    Waynorth

    Pump and dump, pump and dump. It’s what they do. It’s like being on a roller coaster, and as sure as you’re alive and reading this, the belly-dropping downslope is coming.

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