Maybe it is just me, but it has been heart-warming the last couple of weeks to read my usual lefty blogs and notice a decided shift in tone. As we approach the gallows pole, it appears there is a certain amount of clarity emerging that has been absent the last two years. Maybe it was watching Christine O’Donnell flub questions about… the first amendment, or watching Joe Miller co-opt US soldiers to serve as his private goons to “arrest” citizens, or maybe watching Alan West’s Outlaw bikers rough up a 20-something in a park, or listening to Sharon Angle basically state “Mexican, Asian, you all look funny to me.”
I’m not sure what it finally was that changed things, but right now in the whinosphere, it is almost as if they recognize the Republicans actually are worse than the Democrats and that Obama isn’t history’s greatest monster. It is a refreshing change.
JohnR
Yeah; what a shame it’s not happening much in the general world, eh?
Zandar
I would like to think it’s the significant early voting numbers in places like Ohio that are giving people hope.
That’s me, a glass 1/6th full kinda guy.
cleek
Alex Chilton once said, when an interviewer asked him about all the great press Big Star’s second record had received:
“That’s great. But we’ve had critical acclaim before. I hope it sells.”
Bruuuuce
Speaking of blogs to read, here’s a recommendation for you: Stonekettle Station. Here’s the proprietor’s bio: “I’m a retired US Navy Chief Warrant Officer. Nowadays I live in Alaska where I spend most of my time working in my woodshop or fishing. I occasionally consult for the Military. I have delusions of becoming a full time writer – or conquering the universe, whichever is easier.” Well worth adding to the blogroll.
Maybe the shift in tone is due to people realizing that we might begin the long, slow slide back toward the Bush years. Or maybe it’s just that the rent’s too damned high.
DiTurno
No one ever disputed that the Republicans are much worse than the Democrats. The major beefs have been:
1. Obama’s approach in Afghanistan and Iraq have been virtually identical to Bush’s. That’s obviously a fact.
2. Obama and the Dems have shown a typical Democratic gutlessness. Yes, the ACA is a victory and yes, there was no chance whatsoever of passing single payer. But Obama’s unwillingness to fight for (for example) a Medicare buy-in was and is very disappointing. You need to throw your base a bone, not talk smack about them. Republicans understand that.
By the way, I haven’t seen any major liberals talking about sitting out this election.
steviez314
At least until Obama hurts my fee-fees again.
Benjamin Cisco
Nothing like impending doom to sharpen one’s focus.
Jamie
well, they better get the trains running on time if they win.
Kryptik
I just hope this shift is happening within the offices of the Dem strategists as well. Hunkering down in a defensive crouch only works if you’re planning on attacking sooner or later.
Keith G
An on coming chance of dancing at the end of a rope does serve to focus the mind.
Ash Can
Knock on wood.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Did anyone see todays xkcd? Table’s worth a thousand words I guess.
nepat
The mind always clears when there’s a gun at your head. See “A Good Man is Hard to Find” by Flannery O’Connor.
Steve
The story of the enthusiasm gap has been overplayed for a long time. Democrats are at normal energy levels for a midterm election. Sure, we’d love them to be super fired up in order to defeat the greatest threat ever to Western Civilization, but we’re talking about a long-established trend here. Average levels of turnout do not a story make.
The enthusiasm gap has always been about higher levels of energy among Republican voters, meaning that more of them have been telling pollsters they are dead certain to vote. If the GOP indeed manages to turn out their voters at much higher than normal levels, they will probably do quite well. I know the story isn’t particularly sexy when I put it that way.
BudP
In defense of Sharon Angle…She doesn’t see the world as black and white, she sees the world as white and non-white.
Violet
I really hope the Democrats surprise people. Of course if they do anything less than increase their margins in both houses, the idiotmedia will proclaim it a massive failure. But I’ve got hope they’ll outperform the dire predictions.
Guster
So the whinosphere actually doesn’t conform to my stereotype of it? Huh. Not sure how to proceed, here.
El Cid
I do think it’s a very difficult thing for people to figure out how to seriously and energetically push for certain policies or dissent against certain policies (or rhetoric, sometimes) of elected Democratic leaders when it always will be somewhat close to the next election and it’s always going to be seen as, and sometimes can be (and sometimes the opposite of) [being] objectively pro-Republican [in terms of impacts on elections]. Should anyone ever do that? If so how and when? I don’t think these things are clear to people.
pk
I don’t know. The voters have a choice between evil and corrupt vs cowardly and gutless.
I’m going for the cowards, hoping that one day they may grow a backbone. After all one can always hope.
tomvox1
Not so much for Glennzilla, who rather bizarrely came to the defense of the poor beleaguered Chamber of Commerce so he could attack the evil Robert Gibbs and dredge up shit from the Kerry-Dean primary:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/10/13/gibbs/index.html
Now, Greenwald tried to get back on the right side of things shortly thereafter by bashing everyone’s favorite piñanta, David Brooks, for one of his typically dumb and fact free columns about corporate money in campaigns. But honestly: the ax this guy has to grind with the Obama Admin will never be dulled. His demotivating efforts will never be assuaged by word or deed.
Then again, the guy has worked for/taken money from the Koch-funded Cato Institute, so we really should not include him in “The Left” at all, should we?
BrklynLibrul
The base is coming home. But I agree that we’re still looking at Speaker Boner and (more importantly) crazy Issa.
beergoggles
For all my bitching about Dems, I’ve been really happy with Pelosi and the House and it’s a pity that’s where we’ll be getting the most number of losses.
Other news from the batshit-insaneville that is John Cole’s back yard: Who knew blacks fought with the south in the battle of northern aggression?
soonergrunt
Oh, it will end and things will go back to normal in 5…4…3…
evinfuilt
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
lol, I had already started spreading it around before hitting Balloon-Juice this morning. I don’t think bloggers at HuffPost will like it.
Punchy
John….babe…its as if you came, sailed away, almost robotically. Having too much time on your hands, you picked up your pieces of eight, then decided that you were just fooling yourself. I’m surprised, a a blue collar man myself, that you didn’t just go completely renegade.
Guster
@beergoggles: Yeah, that hurts, punishing the people who did good.
Fergus Wooster
@pk:
This. Like Chirac/LePen – “Vote for the
crookhack, not the fascist.” Not terribly inspiring, but preferable to dancing at the end of a rope without music.Omnes Omnibus
@Punchy: Appalling!
kwAwk
Hmmm….. I wonder if Gibbs will give the professional left any credit if Dems do manage to do better than projected on election day?
Hedges Ahead
You know what would be great? Instant Run-off Voting. Then those left-of-Democrats could vote for your Nader/Kucinich/Paul/Donald Ducks, with the safe Democrat vote as their run-off selection. Sort of like an exit poll, but one where they’d actually count everyone. 3rd parties get numbers and, down the road, funding.
Seems like the boa constrictor of corporate control is already digesting the R’s, and working on getting its jaws up and around the D’s from the right. But with the either-or we have now, a vote for a LaFollette is indistinguishable from a vote for an Eisenhower (both of whom I believe would be D’s at this point?). Direct pressure on elected officials is hard, especially from the blogosphere. But elections matter, votes get counted and they mean a hell of a lot more than a Rasmussen poll.
From there it’s just one step to Australia’s system; mandatory voting with fines for ‘sitting out’. Of course voting changes are done at the state and local level, so I suppose that means calling up whatever attorney or car salesman you have for a state senator and asking them nicely to put their job at risk. Or writing letters to the Jan Brewers of the world, state Secretaries of State.
jayackroyd
The wingnut candidate handlers have kept the candidates away from open mikes in public forums, and FAR away from the non-Fox media. That is getting harder to do down the stretch, what with debates.
Also, the Democrats are gonna go negative,seriously negative, down the stretch. This is, first, to highlight the, errr, frailities John is referring to here, and, second, to drive down turnout–to dampen the enthusiasm of the “independent, lean-right” voters, moving them from “throw the bums out” to “they’re all crooks, it doesn’t really matter,” keeping them on the couches.
It works for Republicans.
I am not trusting “likely voter” polls, at all, for this one.
Corner Stone
@tomvox1:
No.
Jim Crozier
Ever heard the expression “a day late and a dollar short?”
A year late and about 100 million dollars short.
Corner Stone
@Guster:
Well if failed stereotyping has you stressed out, you can always relax a little and help me figure out what to do with all this extra straw I have left over from the hay bale rides.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@beergoggles:
This. She rocks. Once given a working majority in the House in 08 and an executive that’s not Argueably the Worst President Ever, she’s shown herself to be a monster Speaker.
I’ve always felt that her and Obama complimented each other, thus, we’ve had a list of real accomplishments. Too bad they were saddled with Neville Chamberlain over in the Senate.
JGabriel
John Cole:
Hey Renegade, you don’t have to live your life like a Refugee.
(Anyone who can make it through the first video has a stronger constitution than I. The second is still pretty good though.)
.
jayackroyd
@tomvox1:
There’s lots you can criticize Glenn for, but tribal is certainly not on the list. He doesn’t have an axe out for Obama. He has an axe out for authoritarian presidents who flout the constitution. That Obama fits that bill (as did Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy) does not make it about Obama.
August J. Pollak
Awesome, glad to hear through the power of blog posts that we’ve brought middle class white people back into the fold of the Democratic party. That was the major group we needed to carry us over the finish line last time around.
FlipYrWhig
But I’m still mad about Donnie McClurkin!
ornery curmudgeon
Or maybe you in this late hour sense the stupidity of attacking fellow allies and have adjusted your own famously self-adjusting worldview filter.
Sure, it’s hard to understand people being critical of a President without voting for his opponent. Oh, wait, no it isn’t. Pretend enemies on ‘teh Lepht’ were never a threat to Dems, so it’s safe to posture and claim correctness in something everyone already knew. That’s how the straw man thing works.
Could you offer a link to any of these lefty blogs, maybe give a little evidence to back up your useless point?
caune
I wish I could make myself visit some of my old liberal sites and see this phenomenon myself but I just can’t do it.
You’re it for me John….you and some music, home improvement and foodie web sites are it for me for the foreseeable future.
PaulW
@Punchy:
Domo arigato.
Oh Christ, get this Styx out of my brain! GET IT OUT! AAAAAAHHHHH (listens to Joshua Tree to restore sanity)
Kryptik
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
Not to mention that if she leaves, our likely next choice for Dem leader in the House is….Steny Hoyer.
Pleasant thought, huh?
Juicebaggers, ho!
Or maybe this was going to happen all along and you just have an ex-Republican’s intolerence for dissent.
Asshole.
LarsThorwald
To quote Frank Zappa, “Don’t fool yourself, girl, it’s going up the poop-shoot.”
Just between us already-planning-to-vote-so-our-comment-on-this-one-blog-won’t-suppress-enthusiasm types, let’s face some hard facts: Democrats are facing a real creaming here. A superb ass-kicking. It gives me no pleasure to say that, but all the happy talk of late that we have a chance to pull it out is just another way of maximizing disappointment.
I’m already looking ahead to next year, buying my Glenn Beck food insurance, hunkering down for the ideological electric boogaloo that will be coming out of the House, waiting for the Dems in the Senate to collapse and cave to House demands out of “bipartisanship,” and prearing for the President to triangulate Clintonian while we watch the economy grinder along like a steel sled on rusty train tracks to the ear-piercing tune of 9+% unenployment because Congress will be too busy dicking around to govern.
The Walking Dead premieres on AMC two days before the election. Fittingly.
Grab a shotgun, Bobby, and cover that window over there. They’re comin’. They’ll be comin’ from yonder over by the farmhouse, away from Tillman’s pasture, away from the road. Towards us. You see one of them, you wait, Bobby. You see one a them new zombie tea party Congressmen, you hold fast and wait. When they get close, close enough to smell, you grab little Penny and Sissy and you run everyone out to the truck and you start driving hard in the other direction. I’ll stay here while Angle and Paul and Miller and the like claw at the slats and moan incongruously for tax decreases and a lower deficit. You take everyone and you get, because we have hard times comin’ right along with those zombies, and you gotta look after your own now. You hear me, Bobby? They’re comin’.
PaulW
Seriously. Keep the Get-Out-The-Vote for Dems going. No sleep until we can be certain that the likes of Rick “1.8 Billion In Medicare Fraud, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU FLORIDA REPUBLICANS THINKING?” Scott won’t win.
Oh, and Vote for Crist.
Also, Trish Muscarella for Group 18, 6th Circuit (Pasco and Pinellas).
paradox
For what it’s worth, in my last infrequent blog post (I’ve been trying to stay quiet for a variety of reasons, not just loyalty to the spineless ones) I drew a correlation between stupid proxy wars (Pakistan) and deteriorating infrastructure. Had an empirical weave of literal explosions and flames. Not bad.
That I’m voting for the spineless ones straight as my sex life ticket like always.
‘n I told Attorney General Holder to kiss my tight white ass. He’s an asshole and a drug war junkie.
[shrugs] I even quoted John. Did I fuck up?
[stares]
nevsky42
BTW, our congressman, Tom Perriello (VA-5) crushed his opponent in yet another debate.
http://www.bluevirginia.us/diary/2040/perriello-romps-over-hurt-in-5th-cd-debate
To everybody in central VA, please consider supporting our congressman because he’s actually got an outside shot at winning this. It’ll be a question of whether our constituents actually want to have a congressman interested in public service and creating jobs for our district or if they want to screw themselves over to show Nancy Pelosi…something.
SteveinSC
@beergoggles:
Total agreement here. Obama and Emanuel and Axelrod and Gibbes have brought this poor pass upon us. The House Dems have done well, while President Harold “Bipartisan is my middle name” Ford have fucked the bunny. Obama has failed in proctecting civil liberties, pansied out on DADT, done nothing to punish the torture state, continued to wage grotesquely useless wars, pissed away opportunities for a green energy initialtive, all the while tongue bathing the oil companies. What better middle of the road, slightly right of center president could you want? And still the Repukes won’t let him in the Country Club. Let him be investigated for the rest of his lame presidency. The “drop-dead,” fall-back position is protect the Supreme court from more trash like Uncle Tom Thomas and Benito Scalia. So save the Senate at all costs and fuck Obama. And I say that as a member of the Obama Thousand Dollar Club, Buyer’s Remorse Department.
Joe Beese
http://www.chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html
Ajay
John,
I think you are dreaming. Its never going to happen. It will only get worse. I haven’t any signs of it.
The markers keep changing. Whatever their side does, no matter how egregiously offensive/illegal it might be, they will stick with it. As bad as Angle is, she is still tied/ahead of Reid.
chopper
too little, too late i’m afraid.
chopper
see what i mean, some of the crazy are just doubling down. there’s not going to be any ‘peak moonbat’ either.
Rosalita
@Punchy:
WIN!
chopper
@LarsThorwald:
i’m gonna haveta break down and get cable.
Bobby Thomson
Funny, I was just thinking this morning that it had been a long time since you had done of these counterproductive posts that only piss people off and don’t make anyone want to unite to your cause, and I was wondering if someone had clued you into the fact that you weren’t helping the team.
Question answered.
angler
The post could also be phrased “after two years of picking a fight with liberal Democrats I see that all of my predictions about their disloyalty to the party were wrong. Sorry about that.”
Juicebaggers, ho!
Bobby Thomson: Well, it was this or another breathless post about how we love/hate Andrew Sullivan.
So it goes.
cat48
@johncole
Also2, if your female and Clarence Thomas’ Teaparty wife decides she wants to demand an apology from Anita Hill; well if you’re female & lived thru that crap 19yrs ago, there should be NO enthusiasm gap! I’m looking for folks to drive to the polls myself!
Culture of Truth
Obama is gutless, unlike those brave bloggers!
Linda Featheringill
Maybe the whiners got a look at what was possible: Not a drift backwards into something like we had with Bush but falling headlong into something where the use of force is common and individual liberty is missing. Some of these people are fascist. Others are flirting with fascism because they think they can always pull back in time. [Sigh.]
Maybe Miller did the whole country a favor. Never mind who says what, the picture was clear: Suppression of anyone who is annoying [the press] or in the way [the child].
Better to come to one’s senses now than 2 weeks after the election.
John S.
Bullshit.
Anyone who tosses around the term “Dear Leader” and accuses anyone who defends Obama on any issue of being a cultist drinker of the kool-aid clearly has an axe to grind. Obviously, you haven’t been paying attention to Greenwald.
stuckinred
@chopper: This Walking Dead?
Ash Can
@chopper: Why bother getting cable? Just read through this thread. It’s brimming with walking dead.
waterballoon
Joe, is that rant supposed to convince someone of something?
Culture of Truth
continued to wage grotesquely useless wars
Don’t funding bills originate in Pelosi’s House?
The Grand Panjandrum
Some bloggers say … Come on, man. Links, my brother, links!
geg6
@chopper:
This.
I am completely convinced that the Tea Party and Hamsher/Greenwald fetishists are completely interchangeable. Not to go all Godwin, but it’s like trying to decide who was crazier, Hitler or Stalin/Mao?
Linda Featheringill
@geg6:
There were some differences between those guys but if you were a little guy caught up by the regime, it wouldn’t matter.
Which, I think, is your point. I agree.
Chyron HR
@angler:
Yeah, John. You better man up and apologize to
Mrs. Thomasthe True Progressives for letting them call you a sexist, homophobic fascist.Omnes Omnibus
@Joe Beese: You have convinced me. Nothing good has been accomplished by the the current Congress and the Obama administration. I will just sit on my ass at home on election day. When Republicans win control of the House and Senate, I will say to myself, “It doesn’t matter because the Democrats didn’t fix everything in two years and I realized that there were something that I wanted that they were not even going tory to do.” Then I will bitch for two years until the 2012 elections that Obama isn’t accomplishing anything and stay home again.
/dipshit
Oscar Leroy
@tomvox1:
That’s ridiculous. What he actually wrote, here in the real world, is A) criticism of the Chamber of Commerce is well-founded and B) Robert Gibbs is a hypocrite. Read it again and see.
Nonsense. My Congressman’s entire re-election strategy has been to turn out unenthusiastic/unlikely voters. He has gone from 10 points down to 4 points up.
@geg6:
LOL. So which one is Glenn Greenwald, Hitler or Stalin? Grow up.
Face
Over/under on first impeachment by the GOP House — March 2011. I’ll take the under.
Teabaggery going to demand it.
Oscar Leroy
@Bobby Thomson:
Haha! Yup, can’t have that here, can we? This site just gets funnier and funnier.
stuckinred
@geg6: Pol Pot
Ash Can
This is a good time to trot this story out again: The 111th Congress has been the most productive one in 45 years.
Pigs & Spiders
@Punchy, let’s live together.
Pigs & Spiders
@Punchy, let’s live together.
The Republic of Stupidity
@beergoggles:
From the article you linked to…
Masoff found her information on the Intertubes?
Well shit… that cinches it… it MUST be true…
soonergrunt
@geg6:
It’s one extreme vs. the other, or as my Grandma used to say, “six of one, half a dozen t’other.”
Oscar Leroy
@soonergrunt:
And as we all know, all extremists are wrong. Every truth is in the middle. “No president should lock people up without a trial or assassinate his own citizens.” Extremist!
Bubblegum Tate
Has anybody been keeping a master list of the crazy shit teabagger candidates have been saying and doing? Every election year has its share of amazing craziness, but this year has been way above and beyond, and I do hope somebody’s keeping a chart for posterity.
A month or so ago, one of the British papers published an editorial that said, “It appears as though the US is having a psychotic episode.” I haven’t heard a better summation of things.
SteveinSC
@The Republic of Stupidity: As a sometime Civil War reader, I have found that it is true that a very few blacks felt allied to the the south, or their Confederate “brothers” (know what I mean, know what I mean wink, wink, say no more), there is even one case in Northeast Tar Heel Land where a mixed race black man intentionally lead the perfidious Yankess on a wild goose chase and was shot for his troubles. At the 99.9 percent level this claim from Sons of Confederate Veterans types is thoroughly, most assuredly, bull shit. In fact, the remaining free people of color in Charleston volunteered to man the trenches or otherwise serve as soldiers and were firmly refused.
FlipYrWhig
Many Senate Democrats are conservative. They barely want _Democrats_ to win, much less liberals. I don’t understand why the people who are intent on hammering Obama over legislative ineptitude don’t lay that problem at the feet of the people responsible.
Then worry about the very important problem of a guy in Yemen and how the way the US wants to handle him means that OMG THEY”RE COMING FOR ME NEXT11!1one
Steve
@Oscar Leroy:
Maybe I fail at logic, but I fail to see how this rebuts the narrative of unenthusiastic Democrats. Is it your contention that this is the first midterm election where there are a significant number of “unlikely voters”?
To repeat my point, I am not claiming that there are no unenthusiastic Democrats, I am claiming that the level of interest among Democratic voters is completely normal for a midterm election by historical standards.
Juicebaggers, ho!
FlipYrWig: Sounds like you were happy under Bush.
soonergrunt
@Oscar Leroy: I never said that and I’ll never say that. I will say that there’s no functional difference between the firebaggers and greenwaldians and the teabaggers. None of them want anything to happen that’s not explicitly their own chosen course of action. Change the claimed goals and they all begin to look the same. And there’s that whole living in a democracy (or a republic if you prefer) that kind of requires society to at least try to get along with itself once in a while in order to succeed.
FlipYrWhig
@Juicebaggers, ho!: I don’t think I’d conduct the War on Some Terrifying Terrorizers the same way, but, here’s the difference: I don’t pivot from that legitimate complaint and source of genuine disappointment for civil libertarians and other principled people… to say that Obama wants to dish out “assassination orders” on “American citizens” in a manner that recalls G. Gordon Liddy talking about the Clinton ATF’s “jackbooted thugs.” That’s pretty much _Turner Diaries_ fanfic.
soonergrunt
@FlipYrWhig: This.
Omnes Omnibus
@FlipYrWhig: I’m sorry, are you trying to deal in nuance, subtle distinctions, and the avoidance of broad and inaccurate generalizations? That’s just silly.
FlipYrWhig
@Steve:
And, what’s more, it was widely predicted that Obama’s coalition, based as it was on first-time and irregular voters, _would be hard to keep together in the off-years_.
I think a better question to ask is, “If you want to say that Obama and the Congress have accomplished so much, well, why isn’t that showing up as _increased_ enthusiasm rather than a reversion to the historical norm?” And I do think that’s worth talking about, and that’s where disappointment/disgruntlement may come in again.
But the fact of the matter is that everyone _expected_ a drop-off, so we should be talking about whatever “enthusiasm gap” exists against that pattern. Has enthusiasm dropped _more_ than the drop you’d expect as a baseline? Or, the way I’d want to explore it, has it not increased as much as it should have after Obama and the Congress had a _more productive_ session than is typical?
bemused
@cat48:
But, but, Ginnie Thomas was just extending an olive branch.
Amazing how some “Christians” think extending an olive branch, peace, means the other party must apologize.
chopper
@Ash Can:
lol. well, zombie memes and manic progressives are entertaining but i like zombie movies more.
Cain
@Punchy:
You should have signed off with “domo arrigato”
cain
Cain
@kwAwk:
Of course not. We all have to thank the rich instead. I mean they need acknowledgement!
cain
Brighton
Obama is the worst socialist ever. I wish he was a better socialist.
Lawnguylander
@FlipYrWhig:
Be fair and stop building strawmen or something, it is an indisputable fact that they hate Lieberman, Lincoln, Baucus, etc. and do often lay blame for the nation’s problems at their feet. They will then turn around and criticize Obama’s legislative record by pointing out that he had a 60 vote majority in the Senate. That he only had that ever reliable majority for about 6 months is not worth mentioning. You have to give them credit for that kind of intellectual flexibility.
wrb
Too late
We’re gonna get the porn spectacular of the Huffhamwald congress and a recession that never ends.
If only Obama had closed Gitmo all by hisself.
chopper
@bemused:
it’s true, if by ‘olive branch’ you mean ‘baseball bat’ and ‘extend’ you mean ‘hit you with’.
Juicebaggers, ho!
FlipYrWhig: Link to Greenwald instructing readers to shoot for the head, plz.
morzer
Well, I’ll give the usual whiners and snivellers until November the 3rd, at which point I suspect that their Obama-bashing will recommence.
I agree with other posters that Nancy Pelosi deserves much more respect and affection than she usually gets. I would agree that Reid is a terrible retail politician – but, in partial defense of his Senate leadership, ask yourselves how you would handle a Senate that included Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, Lieberman, Bayh.
As for Obama, I think he has done some good things, including establishing a health-care bridge-head for further development, and that people haven’t realized just how much he has achieved in the face of a filthy economy and a small-town fascist GOP bent on obstruction and wrecking the country to regain power and backed by corrupt billionaires with the assistance of the Roberts right-wing clique. Naturally, his failure to change the world in 22 months is a terrible disappointment.
Omnes Omnibus
@Juicebaggers, ho!: WTF, over?
bemused
@chopper:
And of course, Ginnie meant no offense to Anita Hill. They never do no matter how offensive they are.
I would say it was remarkably stupid for Ginnie to bring attention to her husband’s sexist issues after all these years but all the rest of the tea party idiocies haven’t made enough americans wake up and turn away from the crazies yet.
FlipYrWhig
@Juicebaggers, ho!: I think anyone who talks about “assassination orders” against “American citizens” such that the handling of Awlaki (sp?) is a slippery slope to the government targeting anyone based on secret evidence… is whetting a _variety_ of paranoia that chimes with survivalist and militia rhetoric from the 1990s. I don’t read Greenwald regularly anymore, but I wasn’t talking about him in particular anyway.
FlipYrWhig
@Omnes Omnibus: Juicebaggers was upping the ante on a comment I made about how talk of “assassination orders” was Liddy-like.
Juicebaggers, ho!
Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. Plz try again.
brewmn
To jump in on the Greenwald train, at the time the Citizens United decision was handed down, he thought it was not much of a change from the existing system. Not a BFD at all. For him to now get all outraged about the amount of anonymous money being poured into elections indicates that he’s either a hypocrite who hates Republicans for doing what everyone would do if they could (maybe the anti-Greenwald can write a screed about GG’s disgusting deviation from principle), or he’s just too stupid to see that the current situation was inevitable after that decision.
Either way, it goes to the heart of my problems w/Glenn: he’s either so ignorant of or unwilling to acknowledge the fact that politics must be played, that his commentary is completely irrelevant to those of us trying to find a way forward in this fucked-up political world we live in. He’s the Bubble Boy from Brazil.
tomvox1
@Oscar Leroy:
Um, you read it again (emphases mine):
And GG’s “update” to same after belatedly reading the Think Progress report:
Who’s zooming who here?
FlipYrWhig
@Juicebaggers, ho!: Correct, which is why I think it’s bogus when wannabe lefties cite the handling of Awlaki as a sign that The Government can target anyone for any reason. I have no issue with criticizing the handling of Awlaki on its own merits.
FlipYrWhig
@brewmn: Lawyers and philosophy majors love to spot small contradictions. That’s why I think Greenwald and Matt Yglesias ultimately argue similarly, even though Greenwald has actual information and Yglesias just pontificates: they both are very sure that they can out-reason anyone else, and thus they never really have to reconsider their opinions, because they’re just that good at thinking them through the first time.
Randy P
@DiTurno:
Yes, they’re just exactly the same, except of course where they’re totally different.
Just like Democrats and Republicans are just exactly the same, except for where they’re totally different.
It’s obviously a fact that abandoning Afghanistan and starting an unprovoked war in Iraq to try to capture the oil fields for the use of US oil companies, is just exactly the same as withdrawing US combat forces from Iraq and returning the focus to Afghanistan and the Taliban.
You might not like Obama’s strategic approach to these two countries. But when he campaigned on turning the strategy around 180 degrees and then proceeded to do it, you can hardly argue that it’s just exactly the same.
Kabiddle
Amen
Linda Featheringill
@Brighton:
LOL! Interesting link, by the way.
Juicebaggers, ho!
FlipYrWhig: No, I did not up the ante, your failure of categorization occured when you tried to conflate those who advocate political and social resistance to the expansion of the National Security State and Executive power with those who advocate armed resistence against the state.
So again, links to progressives advocating armed struggle against the state, plz.
liberal
@John S.:
Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to commenters on this site, who behave exactly as Greenwald describes.
Juicebaggers, ho!
Also, apparently you have only a cursory understanding of The Turner Diaries and the militia movement. Dave Neiwert would like to have a few words with you.
Joe Bauers
@Joe Beese:
Sorry, but that guy you linked to is a stupid, childish asshole. Supporting Democrats literally makes me a murderer, but simply “not voting” washes his hands clean and he’s right with God? Fuck him. By his own logic, if he doesn’t organize an armed revolution to overthrow the government of the United States, then he’s giving his tacit support to the system, and he’s a murderer and a coward to boot.
Fuck that guy.
4jkb4ia
That’s very good. Maybe we can avoid the epidemic of finger-pointing between blogs if there are massive losses.
(Derek Jeter: “At this point they have just been better than us.” Combined with Feingold making progress in one poll and the rabid fans engaging in booing and leaving the stadium, there are things about which to be very cheerful.)
theuknownamerican
Its just a matter of time before the communist left is exposed for what it is. Don’t pin any hopes on a few futile attacks directed at current republicans. The gap is so wide that it is pointless and even if the democrats do win it will only be a matter of time before the tea party recharges and go after the big cahuna himseld BO.
Kevin
@Bruuuuce:
Thanks for the tip. I’ve bookmarked the site; he’s funny and refreshingly sane.
Elie
@caune:
I hear that — totally. Me too
FlipYrWhig
@Juicebaggers, ho!:
No, my categorization occurred when I spotted faux-radical poseurs who think that carping on blogs about the “National Security State” makes them Trotsky.
LTMidnight
@Oscar Leroy: @Bobby Thomson: And yet instead of seeing what john is trying to do, people just keep getting pissed off like good little Pavlov dogs.
John S.
@liberal:
I’ve been around this blog since 2003. I am well aware of what the majority of commenters are like. Very few are the reflexive Obots you and Greenwald seem to think are everywhere. If anything, there are more Greenwald worshippers than oBots around here. You seem to be one of them.
Either that, or you’re one of the countless trolls who have been a hallmark of BJ from the very beginning.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Yes, it is just you. I cruise through a variety of blogs, including yours and some in the “whinosphere”, and I’m giving it to you straight when I tell you that this blog post is chock full of figments of your imagination.
fucen tarmal
that’s it.
i am reporting this blog to nfl security. there will be no glorifying renegade, the theme song played at heinz for the steeler defense….that defense is criminal in intent, and the nfl will sell you pictures to prove it(true)
tomvox1
@jayackroyd:
I respect that, I really do. But taking money from a Koch-funded “think tank” like Cato, albeit for an ostensibly “Libertarian” cause, doesn’t make GG look too good, IMO. I mean if he wants everyone to be purer than pure, why not start with himself? Same goes for the Hamsher ties i.e. no shared money with FDL except when he obviously does, blah, blah, blah. He can parse it however he wants, but in this world ain’t nobody hasn’t got some stink on them. And his vendetta against all things Obama is looking pretty obsessive at this point. So it makes me wonder what his motives are sometimes, in a Greenwaldian, conspiracy-minded sort of way…
Mike
http://www.americablog.com/2010/10/obama-doj-asks-supreme-court-to-ok.html
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 20, 2010
Obama DOJ asks Supreme Court to OK summary extra-judicial detention
……
How is this not as bad or even worse than Bush?
FlipYrWhig
@Mike: You’re right, anything that comes from John Aravosis really is as bad or even worse than Bush.
tomvox1
@Mike:
Look, presidents almost invariably seek more executive power than they are explicitly granted, like a pitcher trying to get the ump to expand the strike zone. Sucks that Obama did not just willingly give up all the questionable tools left to him by his malignant predecessor but taking this detention strategy to the Supreme Court is the logical step for the Executive branch to try and defend its turf, especially during wartime. Any president would do this. Look at Lincoln suspending Habeas Corpus and FDR detaining American citizens of Japanese decent, for chrissakes. If you really give a shit about this issue, contact your congressional representatives. They are the ones with the power to constrain the executive through, you know, legislation banning this sort of extra-judicial detention of citizens. To expect Obama the President to willingly give up his power in the arena of national security is naive at best, particularly when he is probably briefed every morning on possible terrorist attack scenarios utilizing naturalized Americans as their facilitators.
bryanD
When Obama was escorted to the royalist-old money Bilderberg group’s confab in Chantilly, Virginia in 2008 (ritually bound and blindfolded?), Obama made certain commitments to tow the line or stay out of the way…..
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=af7_1212773440
….Obama’s first meme POST-Chantilly was …(you all remember!)….
” CAN I HAZ INTERNET?”
C’mon! Uncle Ben flashed before me. And his yummy and convenient rice product.
liberal
@John S.:
LOL. There’s a large number of Obots here.
More Greenwald “worshippers”? Hardly. A few people who support some of what he says.
As for me? I like Greenwald a lot, but am hardly a worshipper. E.g. I think he was decidedly wrong on Citizens United. But I’m sure you don’t understand the subtlety that I can agree with some positions someone takes and disagree with others.
Quiddity
Clearly the Republicans are worse, but that doesn’t mean that Obama deserves much acclaim for what he’s done (or how he’s done it with pre-compromises, bad messaging, waiting-on-Congress, etc.).
What I’m looking forward to, though, is John’s reaction when Obama’s Deficit Commission comes out with its recommendations at the end of the year. I hope I’m wrong, but reports are that it will follow the contours of what Sullivan wants.
Marc
And if they don’t Quiddity it’ll doubtless be on to the next outrage for the online Obama-haters. That’s the part which has gotten so annoying and predictable.
johnny walker
@Marc: Right. Much more annoying and predictable than — say — tarring leftbloggers for something that hasn’t happened yet.
@FlipYrWhig:
Yeah, very witty. Suppose you have any comment on the substance of the post and/or the point made by the person who linked it here?
goatchowder
is that… STYX??? Please, don’t.
DPirate
No, it’s just election time and everyone is seriously afraid their cash cow is about to dry up.
mclaren
@pk:
No, the voters have a choice between evil and corrupt vs evil and cowardly.
When Obama ordered the assassination of a U.S. citizen without trial and without charges and when Obama ordered the kidnapping (“preventive detention”) of U.S. citizens without a trial or charges and hurled ’em into prison cells forever without any release date and when Obama continued the appendix M of the CIA interrogation manual, AKA torture, at Bagram’s second secret prison, and when Obama signed off on expanding the Afghan war and when we’ve till got 50,000 troops in Iraq and the grunts on the ground say “nothing’s changed” and when Obama promised to end DEA raids on state medical marijuana dispensaries but instead he’s continued them without publicity…
…Well, at that point you have to admit that Obama has crossed the line over into outright evil.
Okay, John Cole, I’ll take the bait.
What the fuck is the difference between Republicans and Democrats anymore?
Republicans threatened to invade Iran: Democrats threaten to invade Iran, including Obama and his state department. What’s the difference?
Republicans cranked up the war in Afghanistan, Democrats cranked up the war in Afghanistan.
Republicans tortured innocent prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Democrats now torture innocent prisoners at the second secret prison at Bagram airbase.
Republicans illegally wiretapped Americans, Democrats continue to illegally wiretap Americans.
Republicans suspended the constitution and kidnapped U.S. citizens without a trial and without charges and threw ’em into a black hole beyond the reach of law, now Obama continues to suspend the constitution and kidnaps U.S. citizens without a trial and without charges and throws ’em into a black hole beyond the reach of law.
Republicans did nothing about massive Wall Street corruption and winked and nodded as corrupt bankers paid themselves billions in bonuses for destroying the life savings of working people, now Democrats do nothing about massive Wall Street corruption and wink and nod as corrupt bankers continue to pay themselves billions in bonuses for destroying the life savings of working people.
Republicans applauded as health insurers raised insurance premiums sky-high without limit and greedy corrupt doctors and hospitals and medical devicemakers jacked up costs to the stratosphere, now Democrats applaud as health insurers continue to raise insurance premiums sky-high without limit and greedy corrupt doctors and hospitals and medical devicemakers continue to jack up costs to the stratosphere.
Republicans treated the American public with contempt, took massive bribes, destroyed our civil liberties, continued the pointless unwinnable war against drugs, enabled corrupt conglomerates to steal our life savings and embroiled us in endless unwinnable wars…and now Democrats treat the American public with contempt, take massive bribes, destroy our civil liberties, continue the pointless unwinnable war against drugs, enable corrupt conglomerates to steal our life savings and embroil us in endless unwinnable wars.
So what the fuck is the difference?
Name me one significant policy that will be different if Palin becomes president as compared to President Obama’s policies.
One.
Name me one.
There isn’t one.
Obama loves the war in Afghanistan, Palin will love the war in Afghanistan. Obama has boosted military spending in the middle of a gigantic recession and he’s pledged to secure a steady stream of increases in the DOD budget for the foreseeable future. Palin will boost military spending and Palin will undoubtedly pledge toe secure a steady stream of increases in the DOD budget.
Obama has torn up the constitution and wiped his ass with it, Palin will tear up the constitution and wipe her ass with it.
Obama has ordered American citizens kidnapped and held indefinitely without charges, Palin will order American citizens kidnapped and held indefinitely without charges.
Obama has continued DEA raids on medical marijuana dispensaries (after promising not to), Palin will undoubtedly continue DEA rais on medical marijuana dispensaries.
Obama has expanded the war on drugs by ramping up military aid to Mexico, Palin do the same.
Obama has bailed out the fatcat bankers and done nothing to stop Wall Street corruption, Palin will undoubtedly give tons ‘o bucks to fatcat bankers and wil do nothing to stop Wall Street corruption.
Obama got a non-reform HCR bill passed that delivered the entire American population into the hands of corrupt monopoly health insurance cartels and he did nothing to insure cost controls, Palin will continue Obama’s policies of bailing out the monopoly health insurance cartel with a steady stream of government billions as well as enriching corrupt collusive doctors and for-profit hospitals and thieving bribing medical devicemakers.
So what the fuck is the difference?
If you vote for Palin in 2012, how will any policy change as compared to voting for Obama for a second term in 2012?
The rhetoric will change. That’s all. Obama has a gift for soaring visionary rhetoric — then he goes and orders the assassination of U.S. citizens without a trial and without charges.
The only difference between Obama and Palin is that Palin will fumble and stumble and bumble and bungle her lines. Obama will orate sublimely. But their policies are the same.
So why shouldn’t I vote for Palin? Why shouldn’t I vote for the “Rent Is 2 Damn High” party wackaloon as a write-in candidate at the next presidential election?
What’s the difference?
“Oooohhh, ooohhh, ooohhhh,” you squeal, “but the Republicans are worse than the Democrats! They’re WORSE! WORSE! WORSE!”
Yeah? How?
Torture? Democrats still do that. Extraordinary rendition? Obama still does that, he just calls it “preventive detention.” Assassinating U.S. citizens without a trial and without charges? Even the fuckin’ Republicans never did that.
But Republicans will start another war, you screech. They’re attack Iran! IRAN! IRAN! IRAN!
Whaddaya think’s gonna happen when the last U.S. troops pull out of Iraq, you fool? America always has to be at war somewhere nowadays, so the wars are forever. When one war ends, another one has to begin, so when the war in Iraq finally shuts down, Democrats will invade Iran — if the Democrats are still in power. If the Democrats aren’t in power, the Republicans will invade Iran.
Get a fuckin’ clue, Cole. America is under martial law. We’re a garrison state. War is the health of the state. From now on, America will always be at war somewhere against somebody. Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, who the hell knows. And who the hell cares? It doesn’t matter. America will always be at war, the TSA and the DHS will grow without limit, soon you’ll get stopped by a roadblack with DHS goons on your way to work and they’ll pull you out of your car and do a cavity search and body scan right on the highway with a portable scanner. Get used to it.
You no longer live in a democracy, you live under martial law in a military dictatorship. Hesitate to follow some DHS or TSA’s goons orders and he’ll taser you to death. You have no constitutional rights. So what the fuck is the difference whether Democrats or Republicans run things? There’s no difference. Democrat or Republican, it’ll be corrupt corporations and bribes and paramilitary goons demanding “Papers, please!” on every streetcorner and tasering you to death if you refuse and endless wars in third world countries and fewer jobs and less pay and high health insurance premiums every month. So what the fuck is the difference?
You could vote for Donald Duck and there won’t be any difference. So why should I even bother to vote? Much less vote for a Democrat.
P.S.: I’m going to vote for a Democrat, Cole, but the point is, it doesn’t make fuck-all difference. If Obama gets nominated in 2012 I’ll vote for him, but we both know he’ll just order more torture and more assassinations and more war and more bribes and kickbacks to Wall Street. So it doesn’t make any difference whether I voted for Palin or Obama, as a practical matter. Their policies are identical.
Mnemosyne
DADT. Or are you now going to move the goalposts and re-characterize that as not really significant even though half the liberal blogosphere is screaming about it because shut up, that’s why?
mclaren
@Mnemosyne:
“Significant,” kiddo. Significant.
Gay rights are certainly meaningful and without doubt more rights for gays will improve the quality of life of our fellow citizens. And that’s good news.
Let’s get real, though. DADT does not begin to compare with ordering the summary assassination or kidnapping of U.S. citizens without charges and without trial.
On a scale of importance from 1 to 100, DADT ranks somewhere around 20. Getting ejected from the U.S. army because you’re gay rates as an inconvenience. It’s ugly and disgusting, but not the end of your life.
The president ordering a paramilitary squad to murder you without a trial rates a solid 100 out of 100. When a SEAL team shoots you in the head with a subsonic smooth-bore integrally-supressed Sturm-Ruger .22 (the so-called “hush puppy”), that’s one helluva lot more than an inconveniece. When the last thing you see is your brains hauling ass toward the pavement, yes, ma’am, that is the end of your life.
CalD
Enjoy it while it lasts. People got short memories.
Mnemosyne
@mclaren:
In other words, you don’t actually give a shit about civil rights for anyone but the spiritual advisor to the 9/11 hijackers. Good to know.
The Raven
We corvids love Obama. He’s a cynical hypocrite like Reagan, who he admires. Obama never saw a bank or an insurance company he didn’t like. He’s feeding us really well in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, too. The Republicans will do an even better job of feeding us for a while, though, so some of us are for the Republicans.
Croak!