Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

75% of people clapping liked the show!

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Books are my comfort food!

He really is that stupid.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

T R E 4 5 O N

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

No one could have predicted…

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

… gradually, and then suddenly.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

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42Comments

  2. 2.

    JenJen

    As per usual, Taibbi’s take is the only honest one I’ve read in the past 24 hours. Love the way he totally takes down the tut-tut haughty response from our oh-so-ethical media.

    Of course, I’ve never made it a secret that I have a serious Taibbi-crush, and still fully expect for him to become my future ex-husband one day.

  3. 3.

    JPL

    Someone on TPM wondered about the legality of the NBC/MSNBC policy. The policy stipulates that you have to get permission first which means that the powers that be could refuse. As a company, I don’t think you can say yes to some donations and no to others.

  5. 5.

    The Dangerman

    I win the cynic of the weekend award; I now think it was all intentional.

    MSNBC just started a major marketing campaign (“lean forward”). They sure as hell aren’t going to piss off their top talent during such a campaign (i.e., risking KO saying “take this job and shove it”)…

    …but they sure are scoring a shitload of free advertising (and free verification they are the polar opposite of FOX, which raises money for the Right with regularity).

    I’m calling shenanigans.

  6. 6.

    Michael D.

    It might be stupid to suspend Olberman, but he really should have known better. I mean, I like Olberman. He is a liberal gasbag, and I am kinda on the side of liberal gasbags these days.

    But if the rules say you can’t make political donations, and you say, “fuck the rules” and do it anyway, you can hardly complain when there are consequences.

    And comparing MSNBC policies to Fox News policies is setting a desperately low bar.

    Olberman knew he wasn’t allowed to make political donations. He did it anyway. He said “fuck you” to his boss and got suspended, just like any one of us would at our jobs.

    Just because he’s on OUR side doesn’t mean he gets to play by different rules.

  7. 7.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    If they replace that segment with “Worst Playmate of the Year”, their ratings would go up.

    Just look at FOX.

    I wouldn’t watch in that case though. Or if they reinstate Olbermann but make him “show ankle”. Also.

  9. 9.

    JenJen

    @arguingwithsignposts: I read his pithy piece on “The Daily Beast” and was practically dry-heaving by the time I’d finished slogging through it.

    Taibbi’s piece is laser-aimed at people like Howie.

    ETA: That was weird. No idea why that double-posted, I only hit “save” once.

    Please don’t suspend me. :-)

  10. 10.

    JPL

    @efgoldman: The work rules clearly state that I have to disclose any political contributions.
    IMO, Disclosure is one thing, but permission before the fact is another.

  11. 11.

    Calming Influence

    The idea that a citizen of the United States has to ask their employer if they could “please sir” donate to a particular candidate IS insane.

    Suppose they say “NO!” – has Keith Olbermann’s free speech rights become less important than the free speech rights of the corporation he works for, who can donate a brazillion dollars?

    This deserves an all caps “WHAT THE FUCK?”

    Shit.

  12. 12.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @efgoldman:

    He was, after all, the only former ESPN anchor who wasn’t invited back for the network’s big anniversary celebrations.

    Given all the sexual harassment shenanigans ESPN’s developed a reputation for – and the likes of douchebags like Erik Kuselias – I might be inclined to say that’s a badge of honor.

  13. 13.

    Jrod the Cookie Thief

    @efgoldman: Yeah really! Silly librul outragoholics!

    Who cares that MSNBC is severely punishing the most outspoken liberal in the country for something their conservative babblers also did, as long as they can find some halfway plausible contractual justification for it? They have a contract, story over! Silly libs!

    And really, why should there be any outrage over something as silly as an employer dictating its employee’s politics? I, for one, am looking forward to the return of the company town. I look forward to a return of the good ol’ days when an employers dictated where its employees could shop, who they could associate with, who they vote for, where they worship, and every other aspect of their lives. Just like Jesus intended!

    Hey, if those ingrates in the old company towns didn’t want to be fully owned by their employers, they shouldn’t have signed that contract! Only a silly outraged librul would have an issue with that!

  14. 14.

    Calming Influence

    Next, Keith Olbermann and the rest of us are going to have to ask our employers if we can vote.

    Fuck that shit. I’m contemplating going Rogue Galt.

  15. 15.

    Davis X. Machina

    I stand with Coco KO!

    Let me know when it changes again. Sometimes I can’t keep up.

  16. 16.

    JenJen

    @efgoldman:

    KO has a long history of arrogance and burning bridges with his bosses.

    Yes, he does. And he’s the “talent,” not a producer, not an executive, not a staffer.

    My dad had a long and lustrous career as a radio DJ, and his own arrogance and history of burning bridges contributed to him moving our family all over the country (and even to Canada) during the height of his stardom (although radio format changes were far more responsible). Called him last night to ask him for his take on the KO thing, from his unique perspective. He said “Atta boy, Keith, fuck ’em, you’ll be back in a week, enjoy the time off.”

    I’m not saying you’re doing it, but do I get a kick out of KO being singled out as some kind of uniquely megalomaniac broadcast talent. Look at how many times Howard Stern “broke the rules,” for example. It’s just the way the talent rolls, and dollars to donuts Joe Scarborough is every bit the behind-the-scenes asshat that KO is rumored to be. His offscreen behavior doesn’t seem at all pertinent to the discussion, especially considering how common personalities like KO are in the media world.

  17. 17.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Jrod the Cookie Thief: Hear hear.

    What strikes me is not so much what a strict parsing of some arcane rules at MSNBC can reveal about this, but that non-conservatives are always flagellating themselves about the tiniest transgressions while FOX now consists of a number of candidate/pundits, not just donating to Republican candidates but running for office themselves while sitting in judgment in pundit land.

    “This just in: In the upcoming election, some say the candidate with the best policies is me, and that my librul opponent is scary scary watch out scary. More after this break…”

  18. 18.

    shecky

    NBC punishing Olbermann for donating to Democratic candidates is like Hugh Hefner fining the Playmate of the Year for showing ankle.

    Hefner did have a policy against Bunnies cavorting with clients in his clubs, which is defended by Hef himself in this long but fascinating old interview. This policy seems a better analogy that Taibbi’s. The video is worth watching in its entirety if just to be reminded what a smug and uptight prick William Buckley was.

    Olbermann has nobody to blame but himself. Maddow had a very eloquent and thought provoking tu quoque comment on the matter, but it was still fundamentally a tu quoque fallacy. Olbermann broke the rules and got spanked. He should have known better.

  19. 19.

    And Another Thing...

    Of course, rules are rules, but I’d be very surprised if the penalty is written. There were probably other ways to sanction Olbermann without a “suspension without pay.”

    It absolutely blows my mind that Griffin, as a business decision, would publicly suspend & humiliate is #1 show that leads into a 3 hour block of programming that does significantly better than Mathews, the lead in to Olbermann.

    Whatever the partisan politics aspects of the decision, it’s a terrible customer relations move.

    Of course Olbermann is being provocative, he’s paid to be provocative and that’s what’s built their ratings. And apparently Griffin & Olbermann have conflicts and both have big egos, well whoopdedo, name big time entertainment types who don’t.

    If I were Griffin’s boss, unless this is a larger NBC Universal major change of strategy, Griffin would be in BIG trouble. It looks like sometime Thursday, Griffin found out about the donations, lost his temper, and shot Olbermann (his #1 star talent) in a very public way. I think it makes Griffin look at least intemperate if not unstable. You build a successful show and then publicly smack your talent to show who’s boss? Man, that’s bush league behavior, and if that’s how Griffin rolls he’s in the wrong line of work, That might work in a locomotive factory but not in high talent/individualistic businesses like entertainment.

  22. 22.

    Maude

    @And Another Thing…:
    When MSNBC and NBC suspened Olbermann, the lawyers had looked at the paperwork for legality of the suspension.
    This is contract law.
    I can’t feel sorry for Olbermann. He made $8 million a year.
    Olbermann has a lawyer and you have not heard a whisper that Keith was illegally suspended.

  23. 23.

    Jrod the Cookie Thief

    @efgoldman: No, the things I hate most about right-wingers are their constant efforts to make the world a worse place for everybody except rich white males. I suppose their hypocrisy would make it onto my top ten list, but somewhere towards the bottom.

    Also, if you see no hypocrisy in NBC crapping on the liberal for something that their conservatives did without censure, then I don’t really know what else I can say to you.

  24. 24.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Maude:

    When MSNBC and NBC suspened Olbermann, the lawyers had looked at the paperwork for legality of the suspension.

    How convenient that the lawyers finished looking over the paperwork just in time for the Friday news dump.

  25. 25.

    Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)

    @efgoldman: Disclose or get permission for? There’s a difference and I’m curious which it is.

  26. 26.

    And Another Thing...

    @Maude: You totally miss my point. I’m not saying it was illegal. I’m questioning whether it’s smart, whether it’s a smart business or management practice with regard to managing Olbermann AND with regard to MSNBC viewers.

    It would prob be legal for ABC to stop showing it’s top rated prime time show for 5 episodes, because management is pissed at the star and find some infraction that they can use to suspend and financially penalize him. You know, I don’t think they would do that. Because it would be manifestly dumb.

    What’s legal and what’s wise are not necessarily the same thing.

  27. 27.

    JenJen

    @Maude: You know, good Employment Law attorneys rarely tip their hand publicly, and they most certainly don’t do it within a 24 hour window after their client was dismissed.

    I rather doubt KO would hire some schlub attorney, if he’s hired an attorney at all. For all we know, he was made an example of, and he’ll be back on air in short order. The fact that there has been silence from the KO camp is indicative of exactly nothing.

  28. 28.

    JPL

    @Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people): I understand that if the contract said ……… and Keith violated that contract, he should be suspended. I’m just not sure that MSNBC can seek permission to donate to a certain candidate. That indicates to me that they can say no. Under the Constitution, I’m not sure they can say yes to some candidates and not others. We all know Joe S gave campaign contributions and they were approved. If they required the hosts to disclose ahead of time that would be different. IMO

  29. 29.

    J sub D

    The whole kerfluffle is just bovine excrement.

    FOXNews/MSNBC/PBS/The Estrogen Channel Lifetime, et al are wasting their time if they think prohibiting donations from their news employees somehow is going to make them unbiased or make the viewers believe that either the network or its employees are unbiased.

    ETA I don’t like Olbermann but he’s getting screwed.

  30. 30.

    Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)

    @JPL: Maddow seemed to say that when Joe Scarborough was allowed to make those donations, MSNBC was under different management. In other words, the rules have changed. Did anyone else catch this?

  31. 31.

    And Another Thing...

    @JenJen: Your comments are right on.

    On Friday afternoon I got into trying to call MSNBC & complain, and then called NBC Universal, and they were getting blasted with complaints. Somebody on line started a petition that within about 4 hours had over 137,000 signees. Regardless of whether you think KO is a saint of an ego driven a&*^$@, MSNBC has created a totally self-inflicted wound. That’s just not smart business relations with your viewers/customers.

    And we haven’t begun to discuss Griffin making his network a widespread object of ridicule and additional controversy.

  33. 33.

    Maude

    @JenJen:
    He has a lawyer. A lawer vets the contract.
    He doesn’t need an employment atty unless NBC did something wrong to him.
    I’m not against Keith at all. He works in a cutthroat business.
    Nice to see you on here commenting.

  35. 35.

    Calming Influence

    @efgoldman:
    If you don’t become alarmed at some point, you become the frog in the pot of water slowly coming to a boil.

    There’s nothing about the United States that makes it immune to fascism or dictatorship. Believing that there is just makes us more susceptible.

  36. 36.

    JenJen

    @Maude: I’m more of the opinion that most of us are jumping to wild conclusions vis-a-vis the KO situation. Nobody except the immediate parties know what was involved, and everything else is just hypothetical. But fun to talk about!!

    As far as KO’s personal attorney vetting his contract (which he signed in 2008), well, things change over the course of a few years, and personal attorneys are one thing, while employment law attorneys are specialists that one retains after an event, not prior to an event.

    I only bring up the employment law thing because I found myself in a situation just a few years ago where I needed to retain one myself. Worth every penny, I’m here to tell you. And I had a contract, too.

  37. 37.

    Calming Influence

    Do any of you think it’s right that an employer can tell me, a citizen of the United States, that I can’t contribute to a political campaign, but my employer and the corporation he works for can?

    If yes, we’re fucked.
    If no, why the fuck would I be contractually required to tell them that I was making a contribution?

  38. 38.

    JenJen

    @efgoldman: The issue I take with what you’re saying is that NBC News isn’t just any corporation, and Keith Olbermann isn’t some mid-level manager selling paper products for Kimberley-Clark. He’s a public figure, an on-air talent. The fact that he’s the loudest (and most economically-successful, from a corporate standpoint) liberal voice in America makes this situation different from that of a cubicle jockey in Dubuque, Iowa, for example. It shouldn’t be lost on people, and it does matter.

    Yes, there are lots of employment constraints put on all kinds of people in all kinds of businesses. In fact, a lot of times, rules are broken in the workplace and those rules are overlooked or cast aside on a case-by-case basis. It happens every single day. It didn’t happen in this case, and a shitstorm of epic proportions has resulted, mainly because everybody knows who Keith Olbermann is, and what he’s about.

    I really think you’re missing some nuance here.

  40. 40.

    LindaH

    I don’t know what is going on. I do know that the suspension happened on Friday. I do know that if a lawyer is going to file suit, they will pour over the contract to see what if any recourse they have. I do know that courthouses close on Friday around 4:00 in my county and open around 7:00 on Mondays. Olberman and his attorneys may well have decided that MSNBC was well within its rights to suspend him. Or they may be deciding on the most effective legal and most importantly effective publicity campaign to fight this. If there is no suit or even saber rattling, then probably MSNBC was in the right, but not having an immediate response does not mean that KO is “going quietly into that good night”, either

  41. 41.

    Ron

    @shecky: Maddow’s response was not really about “Should Keith have been suspended” at all. It was a point about the fallacy of the equivalence of MSNBC and Fox as “just different sides of the same coin”

  42. 42.

    dhd

    You guys are all missing the real point here, which is that Taibbi said “retarded”. Therefore he is in favour of eugenics, just like Hitler.

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