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53Comments

  6. 6.

    BGinCHI

    It IS time to get serious about the deficit!

    Has anyone tried scolding it, or sending it to its room without dinner? Well, first let’s get it into a good school and buy it a car and make sure it has a new computer. And clothes from A&F. Probably also a trip to Europe with friends.

    Then, seriously, it’s time to be firm.

    Tough love.

  7. 7.

    GambitRF

    Keep in mind, this the same dude who did an interview with Ezra Klein during the health care debate and made it sound like he had no idea how health care in other countries worked until reading the book he was reading at the time, spoke glowingly about how health care worked in France, and then said that he didn’t support the public option.

  9. 9.

    Tom Q

    Along the same lines: does anyone doubt that, in Beltway terms, Bowles and Simpson accomplished everything they wanted yesterday? All the coverage — including the main headline in today’s NY Times — refers to their proposal as the Commission Report. And Village reaction is near rapturous — “finally, a realistic appraisal”.

    In my view, this has alot to do with the venomously slatned coverage of the past two years. Official DC wants our government to do precisely what David Cameron is doing in Britain, and Obama’s case — however muted — for something more progressive needed to be demonized to make it happen.

  10. 10.

    Kryptik

    @Tom Q:

    That’s what this was all about. Gaming the refs, stacking the cards ahead of time so people could get to call Dems and Obama specifically raging commie anti-American economy destroyers, oh, and they hate the rich too.

    The problem is from the reactions so far, it’s gone precisely to plan. Even if this isn’t the official commission finding, and despite prominent Dems pushing back on it, this will be the only thing the public and the media will care about and if it’s deviated from, you’re ‘SELLING OUR CHILDRENZ FUTURE OUT!’

  11. 11.

    jcricket

    Combine this with the Anne Applebaum article about Alaskan’s fiscal hypocrisy and you get our country’s basic problem. First we have the people who’s only “seriousness” about the deficit is how serious they are in expanding it to help the rich/corporations or screwing over the already screwed (everyone not rich already). Then we have all the people who hand the mantra of “fiscally serious” to Republicans, who have zero fiscal credibility at all.

    Bush Tax Cuts + Wars/Uncontrolled Defense Spending + Medicare Cost Growth + = 99.9% of the problem.

    As Kevin Drum pointed out, anyone not spending 99% of their time on Medicare Cost Growth and increasing government tax revenues is a FUCKING LYING DEFICIT INCREASING UNSERIOUS MORON (maybe he didn’t use those words).

  12. 12.

    ricky

    In the midst of talk by southern R’s of secession, can you think of a better time to discuss consolodation? Can anyone
    other than a grain elevator make an argument that the Dakota’s combined deserve two senators, much less fouras seperate states?

  15. 15.

    General Stuck

    Red state senators? What are you going to do? I would like to see them all retired, or get them out of the dem caucus and let a deep red state like ND elect a real republican, to keep things honest. Trouble is, dems would lose the senate most likely, so, what are you going to do?

  17. 17.

    Mnemosyne

    @Tom Q:

    In terms of publicity, I think you’re right. Whether that’s actually going to work to pressure the other commission members to do what Bowles and Simpson want to do, I’m not so sure. If nothing else, the big egos might be kind of pissed off at being upstaged.

  18. 18.

    Napoleon

    Awesome, just now I got a fundraising call from the DCCC or some such and reamed the woman on the phone and told her (a black woman no less) that Obama is a clown who is doing nothing to stop the gutting of SS and now appears ready to sign on to the Bush tax cuts.

    Great timing!

  19. 19.

    JPL

    What happened to Conrad and his charts? He was opposed to the Bush Tax Cuts because they were going to bankrupt our country. I watched the Senate hearings and my memory has faded but Conrad indicated they were not sustainable.

    pfffft

  20. 20.

    evinfuilt

    @BGinCHI:
    Really good article, sadly all I’ve seen on cable (while at the gym) was about how out of control the deficit is, and how we need to make sacrifices to SS and welfare to save us all (and not even mentioning that the recommendation is a Reagen redo, cut taxes for the rich and replace it with regressive payroll taxes.)

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    @Napoleon:

    Awesome, just now I got a fundraising call from the DCCC or some such and reamed the woman on the phone and told her (a black woman no less) that Obama is a clown who is doing nothing to stop the gutting of SS and now appears ready to sign on to the Bush tax cuts.

    Er, no, Axelrod said the same thing the administration’s been saying for weeks and HuffPo decided to boost their page hits by touting it as something new. See Greg Sargent’s corrected post.

    Why do we keep falling for these stupid media tricks over and over and over again? Why?

  23. 23.

    El Cid

    The deficit is only formed by spending, and the revenue side of the balance does not exist. The federal deficit is a magical object, which cannot be aided by increased revenues, unlike businesses or personal budgets.

  24. 24.

    Napoleon

    @Mnemosyne:

    If the quotes in the HuPo piece are accurate that is not what the Admin has been saying all along. Axelrod is just trying to spin what he said.

    Obama is a disaster for working people and he really needs to go. If you can not draw the line at lowering SS (already one of the weakest programs in the industrialized democracies) and state that you are simply going to veto any budget busting extension of the upper class Bush era tax cuts they you are simply doing nothing more then what makes Grover Norquist happy (at least coming from a Dem).

    Obama is incompetent.

  25. 25.

    BGinCHI

    Here’s the shell game.

    You cut taxes on the rich and then through massive spending (war, etc.) you run up a big deficit. Then, when the other party gets into power you scream about said deficit, ignoring your role in creating it. The design for eliminating it? Hack away at the very people who were left out of the largess when you ran it up in the first place.

    Bottom line: the rich benefit when the deficit goes up and the rich benefit when the deficit goes down.

  26. 26.

    Corner Stone

    @Napoleon: Mnemosyne will never believe we are indeed going to be extending all levels of tax cuts.
    Not even if she put on her little unicorn PJ’s and sat down at the WH in front of Obama and he said, “I agree we need to extend all tax cuts”. At which point her little brain will give a tiny “Erk!” and she’ll shake her head a little back and forth and will then come back here and scream at you that, “Of course we’re going to extend all levels! You idiot! It’s what President Obama has been saying all along! Because mumble mumble argle bargle!”

  28. 28.

    Napoleon

    @BGinCHI:

    Bingo,

    And it goes much farther then that. My fav is an example I have used here before, NAFTA. When it came up there was all the talk about passing this big jobs training bill at the same time to help workers adjust.

    NAFTA passed the training bill was deep sixed and the rich got their investment opportunies and the middle and working class got lower wages.

    That is why even though I actually pretty strongly support free trade in theory I can not imagine ever supporting one in practice ever again unless whatever it is that is suppose to help the ill effects of the trade agreement passes before the trade agreement.

  34. 34.

    Corner Stone

    @Napoleon: I don’t know what ultimate statement Krugman is alluding to here but if it’s that President Obama isn’t being clear on these issues then I am confused.
    What did Krugman expect President Obama to say about a report issued by co-chairs that he himself selected?
    And regarding the tax cuts, those will be extended for all levels. Krugman has to know that as well.

  35. 35.

    Napoleon

    @Corner Stone:

    And regarding the tax cuts, those will be extended for all levels. Krugman has to know that as well.

    What alternative reality does this “wisdom” come from?

  36. 36.

    Mnemosyne

    @Napoleon:

    If the quotes in the HuPo piece are accurate that is not what the Admin has been saying all along. Axelrod is just trying to spin what he said.

    That’s what it comes down to, isn’t it? IF the HuffPo quotes are accurate.

    I was able to point out to Corner Stone the other day that the AP flat-out misquoted Robert Gibbs during a press conference, something I was able to verify by looking at the transcript. So what is your basis for declaring that the HuffPo must have quoted him accurately? Past performance by the HuffPo?

    Personally, I don’t trust the HuffPo as far as I can throw them. They printed nothing but misinformation during the entire health care debate, and I absolutely do not trust them to be accurate on anything anymore. YMMV, of course.

  38. 38.

    Mnemosyne

    @Corner Stone:

    Mnemosyne will never believe we are indeed going to be extending all levels of tax cuts.

    I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m not going to take it as a matter of faith like you do.

    Of course, if it turns out that I’m right and you’re wrong, you’ll be coming back to apologize, right? Oh, no, you’ll just pretend the whole thing never happened and find something else to pin your faith on.

  39. 39.

    Corner Stone

    @Mnemosyne:

    Of course, if it turns out that I’m right and you’re wrong, you’ll be coming back to apologize, right? Oh, no, you’ll just pretend the whole thing never happened and find something else to pin your faith on.

    Unlike you, I don’t lie my ass off at every opportunity. And when I said I thought there would be 90,000 troops in Iraq at the deadline and was wrong, I said so on at least two different threads. And when I lost a bet to You Don’t Say I paid up and posted proof of it.
    Unlike in your twisted dome, I don’t have a problem with admitting error.

  41. 41.

    mds

    I’m cribbing some of this from the Orange Forces of True Evil, who got it from the petulant, whining Cerulean Cherub who’s about as funny as Letterman, but what the fuck.

    From the WaPo:

    The leaders of President Obama’s deficit commission on Wednesday offered an ambitious plan to rebalance the federal budget by curbing increases in Social Security benefits, slashing spending on most federal operations and wiping out more than $100 billion a year in tax breaks for individuals and businesses.

    From Fox News screen headline:

    Obama Debt Panel Eyes Cutting Social Security, Home Deduction.

    From USA Today:

    Obama to Congress: Stop shooting down deficit proposals

    “Before anybody starts shooting down proposals, I think we need to listen, we need to gather up all the facts,” Obama told reporters.

    He added: “If people are, in fact, concerned about spending, debt, deficits and the future of our country, then they’re going to need to be armed with the information about the kinds of choices that are going to be involved, and we can’t just engage in political rhetoric.”

    […]

    The commission proposals — outlined here by USA TODAY’s Richard Wolf — drew fire from many of Obama’s fellow Democrats, including outgoing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    […]

    “We’re going to have to make some tough choices,” Obama said. “The only way to make those tough choices historically has been if both parties are willing to move forward together.”

    Yes, how disappointing that Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Schakowsky indulged in such political rhetoric by shooting down this bundle of thieving horseshit.

    Look, even if President Obama was actually chastising all those Republican politicians who presumably have been engaging in political rhetoric and shooting down proposals, the only critics in the article are Democrats. So regardless of intention, it certainly comes off looking like he’s upbraiding his own party again. All of that against a background of the media outlets, including Fox, making sure that everyone “knows” it’s the Obama deficit commission behind these draconian proposals, not just two off-the-reservation co-chairs. Can we at least entertain the notion that this deficit commission business and the way it’s been handled are something of an own goal?

  42. 42.

    Corner Stone

    @Mnemosyne:

    I was able to point out to Corner Stone the other day that the AP flat-out misquoted Robert Gibbs during a press conference, something I was able to verify by looking at the transcript.

    Both the AP and Reuters reported the same quote, and neither sourced the other. They both also didn’t cite the press briefing you keep referring to as the origination of the material.

    ETA and further, I haven’t seen Gibbs or the WH Press report a retraction or clarification of that quote. If they have I can’t find it.

  43. 43.

    Mnemosyne

    @Corner Stone:

    Great, so that means you will come back and apologize to me if you turn out to be wrong, correct? Because, weirdly, you’ve never managed it before.

    If I turn out to be wrong, I will apologize to you, even though I know you will insist on being a total fucking asshole about it.

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    @Corner Stone:

    Both the AP and Reuters reported the same quote, and neither sourced the other. They both also didn’t cite the press briefing you keep referring to as the origination of the material.

    So you’re still maintaining that there was a different press briefing the same day where Gibbs talked about the same thing with only one word’s difference that just happened to not be put up on the White House website?

  45. 45.

    Judas Escargot

    The only thing that could ever destroy America: A ruling class that loved its bank accounts more than its country.

    A ruling class chosen (or at least tolerated) by its own citizens.

  46. 46.

    Mnemosyne

    @mds:

    Look, even if President Obama was actually chastising all those Republican politicians who presumably have been engaging in political rhetoric and shooting down proposals, the only critics in the article are Democrats. So regardless of intention, it certainly comes off looking like he’s upbraiding his own party again.

    I didn’t realize that the president had written the article.

    It’s so weird how we all realized during the Bush years that the media was flat-out lying to us and making shit up but somehow that awareness went out the window as soon as Obama was elected. Did we really think the media was going to immediately change their ways and only report the truth?

  47. 47.

    Corner Stone

    @Mnemosyne: No jackass, stop putting words in my mouth. Both AP and Reuters reported a quote by Gibbs, neither credited the other and neither said “At today’s WH Press Briefing” that you keep referring to.
    I’m not claiming anything beyond that so stop lying.

  48. 48.

    Corner Stone

    @Mnemosyne: Why the fuck would I apologize to you, you recalcitrant liar?
    If the tax cuts are not all extended I’ll be happy to say I was wrong.
    But I ain’t fucking apologizing to you for shit you lying scumbag.

  49. 49.

    Napoleon

    @Corner Stone:

    The Dems control the WH and both branches and extending them takes affirmative action. There is absolutely no reason why it should. At worse if the Dems are not incompetent and ball-less (a big if) the tax cuts all expire.

    To me voting for that tax extension is no different then disbanding social security or the voting rights act, because at the end of the day they lead to that result. If Obama allows an across the board permanent extension or 2 year extension (as opposed to perm for the middle class 2 years for the rich) as far as I am concerned he just killed the New Deal and Great Society and undid 75 years of progress in this country. It is literally the type of vote that if every other vote in the career of that legislator was exactly as I would have voted I would still max out in my contribution to his opponent in the next contested and I would vote for every one of his or her opponents from then on out. That includes Obama, and that is even if he runs against Palin.

  50. 50.

    Mnemosyne

    @Corner Stone:

    Yep, that’s pretty much what I thought — even if you’re wrong, you’re going to somehow maintain that I was the one who was actually wrong, because shut up, that’s why.

    Smooches!

  52. 52.

    Corner Stone

    @Napoleon: If, by some happenstance, the tax cuts expire during this lame duck session, when the Republican House puts together a new bill to extend or make permanent all tax cuts do you believe the Senate will not pass that package, and if so the President will veto it?
    Because to me, this is it. The lame duck session is the D’s last chance to take this issue. They should have done it months ago but right now is the last chance they have.
    If they do not put forward a bill to make the middle class tax cuts permanent (or at the very least extended), and separate the rich tax cut part then the first thing the R House will do is propose the whole ball of wax becomes permanent. And it is IMO that will also pass the Senate and there is no way President Obama will veto that. If he vetoes then he may as well start looking for a new place to work in 2013.
    Unfortunately, I see very few signs the D’s will make the stark bright line clear and push for only middle class tax cuts. IMO, we will see a proposal to extend all levels.

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