Yet another angle on the Cadell/Schoen disaster, from someone who’s paid to examine the media. Tom Scocca, in Slate, on “Two Full-Time Obama Opponents [Who] Say Obama Should Pledge Not to Run Again“:
… This is bilge. Fred Hiatt, the insufferable editor of the Post’s opinion pages, seems to believe that people hate his section because he has clung with fearless integrity to his support for invading Iraq—WMD or none, operational ties between Saddam and al Qaeda or none—and because the section’s overall politics are to the right of the beliefs of the average reader of the Washington Post.
__
Actually, the reason some of us despise Hiatt and his section is that he consistently chooses to print dishonest garbage, composed by disingenuous partisan hacks, lobbyists, or lobbyist-hacks. The Post opinion section is not a place where serious thinkers work through the issues of the day; it’s where professional propagandists float their newest lies, slogans, and unsubstantiated nonsense, to see if they can get them to bob into the political mainstream.
[…] __
If Schoen and Caddell are not insincere, they are an embarrassment as political experts: hostile to our system of government, ignorant of how it works, and thoroughly unacquainted with history. And that’s the charitable view. The uncharitable view is that they do know better, and they’re pretending not to. So which is it, Fred Hiatt? Did you want to print this piece because it was stupid, or because it was dishonest?
Scocca’s whole post is a wonderful, succinct, link-intensive summary of the whole dishonest, disingenuous mess.
Consider this an open thread.
different church-lady
IT’S NOT A FREAKIN’ MULLET!!!!
Meh
Btw – The Walking Dead might be entering “Best Show On TV” territory
Lancelot Link
Dishonest OR stupid? Why not both?
beltane
“Fred Hiatt” and “fearless integrity” do not belong in the same sentence. The only, and I mean only, thing the Washington Post is good for is to make the New York Times look good in comparison.
WereBear
I believe this is what they are reduced to; screaming that the right thing to do is for Obama to defeat himself.
I find their Zenlike pronouncements to be suspect.
Loneoak
Where did Scocca come from? Was he on the intertubes before he ended up at Slate? Because his analysis is so friggin’ good I can’t believe I’ve never come across him before he ended up at Slate.
sukabi
I’ll go out on a limb and say he printed it BECAUSE it was Stupid AND Dishonest.
Linda Featheringill
What is this clamor for Obama to withdraw this early in the game? Do they think that he is unstoppable otherwise? What are they afraid of?
I will assume that these guys have not been smoking the funny stuff and actually have a reason for saying all of this nonsense. What is it?
Silver Owl
It’s the usual substandard conservatives that can never ever be wrong because they exist. America raised some seriously piss poor adults this era.
MikeJ
@Loneoak: He’s good enough I can’t believe he’s at Slate. Has Slate ever not sucked? I remember when they sold printed copies at Starbucks and it sucked then,
arguingwithsignposts
As someone who’s paid to examine the media (at least in part), I concur with Scocca on this. Fred Hiatt is a douchebag of the highest order. And if I ever meet the man, I’ll say it to his face and consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunity.
beltane
@Linda Featheringill: The reason is money. The only question is who paid these particular whores to perform this particular trick.
KG
I simply refuse to accept that this column was even printed… though, I’m not entirely surprised by it. Shortly after HCR passed, I was at an MCLE event and was sort of engaged in a conversation with a couple of movement conservative types (one is a friend that I can honestly say is a wingnut, the other was a very conservative law prof). They were both convinced that: a) Obama didn’t care about being reelected; b) Obama was going to lose reelection because of HCR; and c) Obama was some how defeated.
It was surreal then. It still is.
Chris
“Did you want to print this piece because it was stupid, or because it was dishonest?”
As above: Yes.
And I wouldn’t bet against Hiatt having some equally inappropriate third reason, such as Schoen/Caddell paid him. (No, seriously, since we all know what the Post’s journalistic-integrity standards are, I think it’s actually pretty plausible. Though it’s also equally plausible that Hiatt would do it for his own personal “Fuck Democrats and everything left of David Broder” glee.)
Mnemosyne
@Linda Featheringill:
Honestly, it sounds like the typical DLC/Third Way bullshit: give up before you even start.
JAHILL10
@WereBear: It think you’ve hit it. I think they are deathly afraid that Obama will beat whatever wingtard they put up in 2012 like a drum and are therefore advising him to take himself out of the running. Brilliant!
Suck It Up!
I was just reminded of the time during the Dem primaries when the Clinton’s suggested that Obama, who was leading, should just give up and take the VP spot.
aaah, good times. good times.
Loneoak
@MikeJ:
Agreed on Slate suckage. I hadn’t read it in a year or so until BJ’ers started linking to Scocca, and I still rely on ya’ll to tell me when to wander over there.
Still haven’t read WaPo or Politico in over a year, I am proud to say.
JWL
I just turned on the TV. Eagles 45, Redskins 21.
The Washington Redskins, folks. As of today led by the the 35 year old Donavan (Guaranteed $40 Million for the next five years) McNabb. Donavan McNabb, benched two weeks ago by Mike Shannahan for reasons known only to himself, God, and Dan Schneider. And not necessarily in that order.
asiangrrlMN
Gah. Blargh. Ugh. I cannot even…ugh! My head, it ‘asplodes. You know the one thing that made me smile tonight? A lengthy convo with my brother in which he recounted how he schooled a Republican friend on the lies that the GOP is spreading. My brother who voted for W. both times (“moral” reasons, read, Christian) and Obama this last election. When asked by his friend at midterm, “You’re voting Republican, right?” He told her, “NO!”
He went to the GOP website to look up something she had told him she’d read, and he said, “It’s a lie. They printed a lie. Why would they do that?” He said they were doing a disservice to the country. I tried to explain it to him, and this is what finally got through, “The GOP is in it for power and to win. They don’t care if they screw the country. He could begrudgingly accept that.”
My little boy is all grown up! I’m telling you this to let you know that people can change.
asiangrrlMN
Decided to make this a post of its own. Yes, it’s THAT special.
Oh, and in case you missed it from last night (since this IS an open thread), my Halloween costume. This is how I look normally (on the left).
Andy K, if you’re out there, you WILL be amazed!
me
The Washington Post still owns Slate right?
Svensker
@JWL:
Michael Vick is playing the game of his life. He is an amazing athlete and a really good quarterback. And he is a piece of scum and should not be allowed in the league. I watched a bit of the game only because I was hoping he would get injured and be out for his career. And that McNabb would win. Guess I’ll have to wait for both. But won’t watch anymore.
BGinCHI
You are all stuck in your reality-based worlds.
Caddel and Schoen are making their own reality! Suck it, fact-centered, capable-government fetishists!
Mnemosyne
In honor of this morning’s Maru video: Keaton in a very tiny box.
RinaX
Eagles 59, Redskins 21, and still 5 minutes left in the third.
I want to see how far this goes.
Anya
I have nothing to say about Hiatt and his vapid and dishonest opinion pages.
In another news, it looks like Peter Daou took time from his Obama bashing and is suing Arinna Huffington. Apparently, Daou and his friend proposed to Arianna Huffington and her business partner that they start a site that steals its content from everyone else.
Mark S.
Scocca gets to the heart of the idiocy of this column:
There’s a reason why people generally hate concern trolls more than the garden variety ones.
suzanne
@asiangrrlMN:
They can, but they usually choose not to. And it depresses the snot out of me. Because whatever they’re wearing makes them look fat and changing would be well-advised. :)
You Don't Say
@RinaX: This is insane. 59-21 in the third!
forked tongue
Erm, so said some Stalinoid hack at Slate. To get the full story, we turn to our expert panel composed of Jonah Goldberg,, David Broder, and Juan Williams. Starting with you, David, do you think this column was exceptionally brilliant, or just based on obvious common sense?
suzanne
So the fetus is already being a little shit. I had to go in for my weekly bio-physical profile, and the little sprog would NOT WAKE UP. Sonographer had me roll over, pose in different positions, buzzed my stomach with this thing that made the world’s most obnoxious sound, and she refused to wake the fuck up. Finally, she gave up.
So I got dressed and left. I wasn’t even out the fucking door, and she woke up. Little shit.
MikeJ
I’ll re-pimp: Name that tune at Cleek’s with special guest DJ.
Lolis
Shouldn’t McConnell pledge not to run since he declared his primary goal was to make sure Obama lose his re-election? I don’t see how this country or Obama can trust him to act in good faith. Step aside for the good of America, Mitch.
asiangrrlMN
@suzanne: Yeah, I know. It helps that my brother is frighteningly smart and into social justice, anti-big business, and approves of sociaIist healthcare. He finally realized that voting on one or two issues is NOT the way to get things done. He is running around telling everyone that the Republicans lie. He’s more unreserved about voicing his opinions (I’m more reticent in real life), so he’s ruffling feathers. I approve.
@Mnemosyne: Keaton is really, really, really cute. He’s just a doll.
danimal
Obama lacks the consent of the governed? With, what 45% approval ratings? C’mon now, y’all can do better than that, can’t you?
suzanne
…aaaaaand for the day’s most depressing story.
***sob***
Ash Can
@suzanne: I recall going for an ultrasound one day after work, with Bottle Rocket running laps inside of me. The doctor and technician remarked on how active he was, and I came clean and fessed up to the two boxes of Milk Duds I had eaten at work after lunch. Since this wasn’t something I did often, the doctor laughed at me instead of slapping me silly.
Anya
@Linda Featheringill:
I am more interested in this growing Dem clamor to constantly be yelling at Obama and saying or implying that he is a coward, failure, lacks courage….. It’s obvious that we are our own worst enemy. These old clowns don’t matter. They are fraud and everyone knows it. The asshole who printed their crap knows it. Our side is the one doing the real damage. They are either obstructing, running away from the President or they are attacking him constantly, while adapting right wing slanders. I am not worried about those old clowns who sold their souls long ago. Instead, I am disillusioned with our party.
J. Michael Neal
I come at this operating on several premises:
1) The entity that consumes a product is not necessarily the customer for that product. The customer is *always* the entity that pays for a product. Always. If you are consuming something and you didn’t pay for it, you aren’t the customer.
2) Corporations always, and individual people usually, care what the customer thinks and whether it is satisfied. They pretty much don’t care at all what anyone else thinks. So, if you aren’t the customer, they don’t care what you think of the product, unless it affects how the customer thinks about the product, and only to the extent that the customer cares.
3) Newspapers and television stations aren’t paid for by the consumer. This is true even of cable/satellite channels until you reach the level of straight subscription services like HBO. You aren’t the customer. The advertisers are the customers.
4) The interaction of #2 and #3 mean that the Washington Post doesn’t care what you think of their product. They care what the advertisers think of their product, because the advertisers are the customers. Guess who their customers are? Pretty much the same crew that kept contributing to the Chamber of Commerce leading up to the elections.
5) In the case of the post, it’s even worse. The part of the company that makes the real money is Kaplan, particularly the for-profit university arm. When you look at where that money comes from, the students are not the customers. Most of them are receiving financial aid in various forms from the federal government. That means that it’s the federal government that is the customer, so the Post company cares a lot what the federal government thinks.
If the federal government is displeased with the product, as the Obama administration is, that’s a problem for them. With any other customer, the only option for mollifying the customer is to alter your product in ways that the customer wants; it’s then up to the company to decide whether or not it’s worth it to them to make those changes. (I’m leaving ad campaigns to change perceptions out of this, and thinking of changing the perception of the product as being the same thing as the product. For these purposes, I think it works.) When the customer is the government of a republic, it opens up another option: rather than change the product, change the customer.
It appears that the Washington Post Company has decided to go with the second option.
RinaX
59-28. Redskin comeback?
RinaX
@You Don’t Say:
It’s amazing that neither team has sat their quarterback. McNabb was just signed to a 5-year 40mil dollar deal today. I’d have him on the bench, especially considering that it’s raining. Vick as well, quite frankly.
Okay, the Eagles have Kevin Kolb coming out.
No, wait, it’s still Vick.
You Don't Say
@RinaX: They were just talking about it, that Vick is probably loving it too much to come out.
I’ve never really played sports and this is probably why: if I were Shanahan I’d hand my earphones to an assistant and say ‘See ya tomorrow.’
Lev
Does Scocca want to get Froomkinned? It’s like that Larry Sanders show when Larry keeps making fun of the network and they keep screwing with his show in retaliation. Scocca better send up Hank Kingsley with a gift basket to make up…
Davis X. Machina
Wrong thread…
CircleSquared
@sukabi: Not much of a limb, sukabi, but your heart (and steel-toed boots) are in the right place.
GregB
It should be noted that Doug Schoen and Pat Cadell are anagrams for Pusillanimous Dinkwhistlers.
junebug
@Svensker:
So, you allow no redemption. The boy who is now a man grew up with the police allowing dog fighting. It was no big deal.
Rail on against him. He has said and is actually working to become a better man. Rail on.
It serves no purpose, but if you don’t forgive, I guess that means something?
Nick
@Svensker:
but he makes people money, so its ok.
honus
OT, but I’m just wondering, since it was such an issue with Pelosi, if anyone in the media will be checking next January to see if Boehner is using a government jet?
Yutsano
@honus: IOKIYAR. His jet could be gold plated and run on harp seal baby entrails, and he’d get celebrated for it.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Yo. How you be, hon?
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: Bleah. Weird day at work, kinda pooped.
I absosmurfy heart the beehive!
morzer
@junebug:
And if we do not find his repentance, or his punishment convincing or adequate – are we obliged to forgive Vick’s vile crimes just because of your implied disapproval?
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Hope your stalker is leaving you alone. Thanks! My hair was an event in and of itself.
morzer
@Anya:
I believe that many of the Blue Dogs have a quiet, carefully unstated racism and misogyny behind their facade of “Democratic” deficit hawks, and they have been just waiting for a chance to do Obama down. In this context, I find it interesting that Lee Atwater made the explicit connection between Republicans talking about abstract, financial issues, and what was really being said:
Interesting to see how many of these financial issues supposedly motivate the Blue Dogs – and yet how consistently they betray their own few miserable principles time after time.
gwangung
@morzer: The natural question is, “what would satisfy you? And does it allow for redemption?” Is your stand for justice, or for vengeance?
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: More or less he has. Just the occasional random text that I can ignore rather easily. My idiocy for handing over my number so easily, but at least he can’t just randomly haunt me at my desk anymore.
Admit it: the pain was worth the payoff. I’m not suggesting you do your hair that way again…but it was worth it. Next time though the dress shall be red.
morzer
@gwangung:
Are you so sure that justice and vengeance can be separated into clean and neat and distinct things? You would agree surely, that doing justice requires a degree of “vengeance” whether on one’s own behalf or that of others? Furthermore, why should it fall to those who find Vick’s punishment inadequate to defend their view, rather than those who indulge his crimes because he is a successful NFL quarterback?
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Yeah. An occasional text is manageable.
Hair: Oh, it was totally worth it. My hair was the talk of the party. People kept touching it because they couldn’t believe it was all mine and that it was real.
As for the dress, my initial dress WAS red. However, it did not allow for my impressive bosom. Alas. I will get it fixed as it’s actually pretty cute.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN:
I THOUGHT I remembered the colors right! All of a sudden you’re in sea foam randomly. (Which was a very 60’s color, I’m just making a point here.) It was still rather fetching. One minor point: long white gloves a la Jackie O. They were all the rage when my mom was in high school.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Yes. The dress was red. This was actually more fitting (pun semi-intended) as it was a house-dress. Gloves: Huh. All the pics I saw were of the short lace gloves–which is what I had. I thought the elbow-length ones were more for glamour girls than housewives. Then again, I had a damn cigarette holder and a martini glass, too. Next time: I cannot forget the pearls!
P.S. And, I don’t think there will be a next time. If I dress up again next year, it’s going to be MUCH less complicated.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: I’m thinking Xena. Yes, anything to get you in a leather bodice I wholeheartedly approve of.
PanAmerican
It won’t be a real live liberal progressive. They know the score. It will be some greedhead like Evan Bayh or Heath Shuler. They’ll get a bunch of sketchily sourced cash and Joe Trippi’s hard workin’ white guy talking points. Pretty standard GOP ratfucking – but none of that will stop the poutrage left from jumping on the crazy train.
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle
@junebug: How long have you been here? Do you realize in what high esteem pets(specifically dogs and cats) are held to around here? Do you see the button for the Balloon-Juice store on the upper right of this page? Do you know where any profits from all sales go to?
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: I actually thought about her for this year! Or, Callisto. She’s haaaaawt, too. However, as Xena has dark hair, I should stick to her. And, start getting into shape NAOW! My tagline for this year was, “I WILL make pie. Don’t think I won’t!” Next year, it’ll be, “Wanna see my chakram?”
mak
Nice rant by Scocca. Actually, not quite a proper John Coleian rant so much as an an extended contemptuous muttering under the breath, like some guy sitting next to you at church railing against the Pope, occasionally spitting on you.
I’ll go back for more.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: Ooh baby. I need to go fan myself now.
Question for you hon: is it fair to mock on a troll who is already consumed by self-parody as it is?
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: It’s ALWAYS fair to mock a troll–whether it’s wise or not, is another matter. Sometimes, mocking them only emboldens them!
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: Hehehe, once again you gets the magic comment square.
BruceFromOhio
@Svensker:
This was a hot topic for a long time. If you commit a crime, get convicted and serve your sentence, what then? Can your peers, your community, your fellow citizens continue to punish you? Absolutely, ask anyone convicted of a felony in their teen years. And justifiably so, you can hit the sex-offenders database 24-7 to scope who’s in the neighborhood.
So my question is, how long do you punish someone for their crime? And why?
I take exactly the opposite stance from you. I think what Vick did was heinous and reprehensible, and he deserved a stint in the joint. Now he has the opportunity to not only make the world a better place, he’s an example to anyone else who wants to go down those roads. I haven’t clue if he learned his lesson, only time will tell. I’m willing to give him his shot, it’s his to fvck up. Or not.
rickstersherpa
The context of this column and others like it, as well as the content of some actual “news” stories and analyis in the WaPo is that for the last six months Kaplan’s fraudalent practices as on-line education “provider” have been revealed and the Obama Department of Education has been trying to slow down the Federal gravy train if they don’t correct their problems with actually giving their students an education worth more than paper the credit is printed on.
If you keep printing the torturer Theissen, Krauthammer, and George Will, well, Caddell and Schoen fit right in.
Kryptik
Glbleh….
And it seems Obama learns the exact wrong lessons of the last few years, blaming himself personally for not only the losses but for the tone in Washington, by….being too headstrong and not cooperating enough with the GOP.
Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant. We’ve got our own president hippie punching HIMSELF now. Fuck this shit.
Svensker
@junebug:
I’m all for redemption. And if he has truly seen the light and changed, then he should be out working to stop other people/kids from doing what he was doing and be a huge actor in animal rescue. Not on my TV making trillions of dollars. His “payment” seems minor compared to his crime.
Koz
It’s because the idea that Obama might actually accomplish something useful the way he’s gone about things to date seems so improbable at the moment that people have to come up with something, eg, Caddell and Schoen.
Koz
“And it seems Obama learns the exact wrong lessons of the last few years, blaming himself personally for not only the losses but for the tone in Washington, by….being too headstrong and not cooperating enough with the GOP.”
Well, yeah. He pushed through the health care bill in defiance of what the people wanted or were willing to accept. What do you want?