I wasn’t willing to make a bold prediction on the GM bail out, and I still won’t. I saw it as a difficult decision. But, I also live in the rust belt and I knew that allowing GM to go under would be devastating to this region, hurting everyone from parts suppliers to health care providers. In hindsight, I think they made the right (if politically unpopular) call.
I expected the chorus of certain doom and definitive statements from the Right, because if there’s anything Grover Norquist knows, it’s the auto industry. GM was Obama’s First Katrina. It might have been his second. I can’t keep track.
“This is somewhere in between Baghdad and fixing the flood in Louisiana,” Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, said, comparing the GM decision to major stumbles by former President George W. Bush. Obama “has decided to take this over. He now owns it.”
I have to say, though, I was a flat-out pissed to see what may be my least favorite cable tv guest, even-the-liberal Robert Reich, emerge as one of the bailout’s biggest critics.
I thought his alternative proposal to the Obama solution was laughable, including as it did vague plans to “retrain” and “relocate” workers.
Cash could be used to retrain car workers, giving them extended unemployment insurance as they retrain.
Fabulous. I’m still not sure what a “car worker” is, but blithely tossing out “retraining” is easy, so I’m not surprised.
And then there’s this:
But US politicians dare not talk openly about industrial adjustment because the public does not want to hear about it.
Really? Who are these cowardly and loathsome “politicians” who dare not talk about “industrial adjustment”? Are any of them named Bill Clinton?
Would that Reich had been such a vocal critic when he actually had some power. No matter! He’s had all these bold and brilliant ideas all along, he just never implemented any of them, you know, when he was in charge of labor policy.
When conservatives needed a stick to bash unions with, they reached for Reich, so thanks for that, Robert. What we really need in this country is another fake-debate where we add up union workers hourly pay and benefits, and insist that’s their wage, although that math only applies to blue collar workers. We don’t do that addition when we talk about white collar workers. Ever.
Can I put Reich in the George Will category of credibility if he doesn’t revisit this issue?
Will sneers at “the automotive engineers in Congress,” though apparently his own automotive engineering sensibility towers above Motor Trend. Why has he been been denying us his expert automobile criticism?
Kryptik
I love how the ‘narrative’ continues to treat “Unions” like some giant monolithic beast controlling the shadow gov’t of the country. Honestly, when was the last time the Unions actually helped sway a debate or an election, compared to say…corporate money, astroturfing, and career lobbying.
Unions are toothless in this country, and yet they’re still one of the go-to Boogeymen to help distract from the fact that Neoconservatism and Corporatism already own this whole fucking country lock, stock, and barrel. Enjoy your Neo-Gilded Age. Fuckers.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
And in the face of conservatives criticizing the creation of “Government Motors,” the good people of Michigan decided to vote in a slew of Republicans who would never have supported the auto-industry bailout. I suppose they will shamelessly take credit when the US government sells its shares of GM and makes a profit. And no one will call them on it.
Unabogie
Nothing gives me more pride in my country than the fact that an American car company made a kick ass green car that simultaneously helps solve global warming and makes George Will look like the douche he is.
So much win in one car!
Mr Furious
Automobile Magazine announced that the Volt is the “2011 Automobile of the Year” yesterday as well.
I’ve driven the car, and it’s everything Motor Trend (cited in that story) claims:
Dave
I still don’t understand why the Democrats don’t push this harder. GM has the Car of the Year in the Volt, completely pushing the Nissan Leaf off the page. Chrysler sales are up 17% so far this year after four straight years of declines. And Ford benefited from keeping suppliers in business to keep their run of success going.
At every level, US Government involvement in the Big Three was a success. So why on Earth are they not talking about it??
chopper
FTFY.
Maude
Has Reich been paying any attention to the blocking of UI lately and the possibility that it may be blocked again?
NAFTA and the wonderful training programs that came with it.
Has Mr. Reich talked about that?
One of the best statements on training people who have done jobs like car workers, construction worker to use computers was made by Mario Cuomo. He basically made the point that it was a bit like teaching a fish to ride a bicycle.
Robert Reich has been negative about Obama for some time.
He’s never worked a blue collar job in his life, I bet.
The magical world of training is a hoax. There have to be jobs and the companies should be doing the training.
Clinton had said his foundation would set up training programs. Training for what?
The GM IPO may go well and bring the borrowed monies back to the US, Canada and the unions.
Kay
@Mr Furious:
George Will knows baseball and cars, because he’s a Real American :)
Linda Featheringill
Is the govt going to include their shares of GM in the IPO?
I’d really like to see the govt make a profit off of this “investment” in US businesses. And if this turns out to be the case, I want to engage in a lot of “I told you so.”
Hah.
Dave
@Linda Featheringill:
The government is selling about a third of their shares so they don’t depress the price too much.
Odds are they won’t break even, but it’s possible. Even so, they should make back the money that the government injected into GM in 2009 over the upcoming years.
Mr Furious
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):
Michigan Public Radio had a story on the potential expiration of long-term unemployment benefits for 180,000 people in MI who have been out of work for 99 weeks.
You KNOW what the GOP response to THAT will be… “Fuck those young bucks.”
Let’s not forget that if it were up to the Republicans in DC, GM and Chrysler would be out of business right now, making the situation here infinitely worse than the clusterfuck it is already.
Despite all of that, the fucking moron voters in this state just handed the Republicans the Governor’s office, the State House and Supreme Court as well as a some new GOP U.S. Reps. Plus, we will be redistricting and losing a U.S. House seat.
Can’t say “Fuck the South” anymore now that the stupid is everywhere.
Kay
@Maude:
It was just silly. He’s pushing retraining while pointing to the national unemployment rate.
Where did he expect the car workers to move, and what were they supposed to train for? Health care? People with employer-provided health insurance (like union workers) provide the revenue for health care jobs. I think if the manufacturer goes, those jobs go too.
burnspbesq
I read Steve Rattner’s book about a month ago. I found the case he makes for the bailout compelling. Anyone who doesn’t needs to explain why Rattner is wrong.
Elie
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):
Absolutely. Go figure. No good deed goes unpunished. Think of all the people who still had jobs in the industry who would have been out on their heads… I wonder how many of them voted for republicans…
Comrade Javamanphil
Somewhere between 1,800 and 1 million people died as a result of the US Government bailing out GM? I had no idea.
Edited to correct the low end of that range.
Zifnab
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):
This.
I can at least wrap my brain around southern guys from Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama opposing the auto bail-out. They claim dozens of Japanese car assembly plants to their name and could have leveraged some benefit from domestic auto collapse. But why oh why are folks in Michigan and Ohio – folks who benefited most from the auto bailout – lining up to slit their own throats? This, I will never understand.
Mr Furious
@Kay: How the fuck are auto workers supposed to “move where the jobs are” when they can’t possibly sell their homes (if they still have them).
Kay
@Maude:
Good for you for bringing up Canada.
Kryptik
@Kay:
They’d better retrain for something, I guess, since if they dare to ever become unemployed, good luck getting anyone to take a chance on them: Job Seekers Find Bias Against the Unemployed.
Employers not hiring unemployed workers…simply because they’re unemployed. Rationale: “If you’re such a good worker, why don’t you have a job?”
Zifnab
@Elie: Think how many lost their jobs in the ’08 crash and were getting by purely on extended unemployment. I can’t wait to see how Dan Coats, Mark Kirk, and Rob Portman vote on unemployment benefit extensions.
Then maybe we can hear how a massive wave of poverty sweeping the Mid-west is all Obama’s fault.
stormhit
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):
Except they did support the bailout.
Kay
@Mr Furious:
It was just infuriating to me, because if we don’t have an “industrial policy” (and we don’t, other than trade and deregulation) shouldn’t Reich sort of explain why he didn’t get on that, when he had the opportunity?
I just can’t personally imagine doing all this pontificating from afar. It’s not something I would do.
Silver
We don’t do that addition when we talk about white collar workers. Ever.
We do if they happen to be people who work for the government. Only salaried employees though, never contractors.
Mr Furious
@Zifnab:
Tell me about it. This state was already screwed, it’s about to have gasoline poured all over the fire now as well.
I will say that Republicans and the press in Michigan blaming Jennifer Granholm for everything from NAFTA to sunspots didn’t help matters.
While much of the Granholm-bashing was unwarranted, I don’t think she was much of a Governor, or helped her cause much, but backlash against her and apathy in Detroit after the whole Kwame thing were definite factors.
Elie
@Kay:
Oh Kay, now there you go again, thinking…
I am just completely incredulous at the failure of so many so called knowledgeable people to follow their logic through to the underlying people economics. Jobs invariably feed other jobs which in turn all support the economy. You cut a job and that person cannot buy groceries, pay the rent/mortgage or buy health care either.
I got into a tought argument with a guy who is a GM auto purchaser about why the government helped out GM. He also cited “retraining and people moving” — as though that could easily be achieved and then to what?
Its clear that some just don’t even care enough to think through cause and effect and basically are able to screw the little guy to make a larger point. There were right wing and left wing people during the health care debate who were willing to let people “do without” for a theoretical point on policy/ideology.
Remember, it was the idealist, Marat and not the so called sadist, the Marquis de Sade, who carried out the bloody French revolution based on ideals rather than humanistic concerns…. not all the people who share similar values share similar humanity it seems…
burnspbesq
@Zifnab:
If it happens on your watch, you get blamed, regardless of whether you actually are responsible. Always been that way, always will be. It’s stupid, but it’s not going away.
change
GM will end up owned by the Chinese lock, stock, and barrel. It’s already started with SAIC’s stock buy.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
@stormhit: Thanks for correcting me on that. I’m letting my annoyance at all things Republican obliterate common-sense. It makes sense that Michigan Republicans weren’t against the auto industry bailouts the way other Republicans were.
Bill H.
Robert Reich is a complete idiot, and I have no idea why anybody listens to him any more. Especially after he touted the plan for the president to “place BP into receivership” for the Gulf cleanup; something that the president does not have the power to do to a domestic corporation, let alone a foreign one.
Tom Betz
@Zifnab:
What I’m hearing from those parts is that Independents and the Democratic base simply stayed home, and the Republican loony base turned out big-time.
Et voilà! Loony republicans win.
Kay
@change:
What do you care, change? Conservatives have been bashing the US auto industry for my entire adult life. You should be thrilled about China.
It’s a conservative dream, for manufacturing. Low wage and powerless.
stormhit
@Zifnab:
Again, because this didn’t really happen. For one, much of MI has always been red. A Republican winning Stupak’s seat was entirely predictable, for instance. And as I hinted a second ago; every national MI Republican supported the bailout. While it may be true that nationally this is far from the case for the party; that’s not an easy argument to make in a local election.
Governor-wise, anyone running as a totally sane sounding moderate Republican always has a good chance to win here. So that result wasn’t shocking.
The total turnover in the state legislature was disappointing; but again, not surprising. Granholm has received tons of blame over the past 8 years, but she’s never controlled both houses. And as you can probably guess, the Republican led house has done nothing but obstruct and pass tax cuts in those 8 years. They were predictably rewarded for this as people were sick of the government appearing ineffective and thus blamed the party of the Executive. Sounds familiar.
trollhattan
I confess to having been in the “well, we’ll never see that money again” camp with several of the bailouts, including GM and especially Chrysler. GM may well prove me wrong, which is a very good thing. Chrysler still has a miserable vehicle lineup and I don’t know whether the nation is ready to embrace the Fiat 500. I do know we’re not all lining up to buy Jeeps just to help them out.
Still, one for two ain’t bad and anyway, GM is a much bigger fish than Chrysler. When you look at the vast network of support industries intertwined with the automakers it’s pretty obvious why the bailouts were required during a time the economy was in a freefall.
If the Republicans were to get a do-over they’d probably still approve the bailout, but under the condition that they all had to move to the Confederacy. Take that, unions!
Dennis SGMM
Post-NAFTA, when the U.S. started hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs, the pols all kept making the same soothing noises about retraining. Bush pere started the nonsense, Bill Clinton perfected it, and the emessem never bothered to ask just what fucking jobs were available in the rust belt or the rural South for those were retrained. Add to that the fact that Congress never quite got around to funding an effort sufficient to the task and you have a classic bait-and-switch. Reich played his part in it, too, so his current stance is just another sign that he is one of the major assholes of our time.
Linda Featheringill
@Elie:
de Sade actually harmed only a few people.
He wrote some dirty books, though.
trollhattan
@Kay:
Don’t forget: no pesky environazis!
Dennis SGMM
@trollhattan:
Regarding Chrysler, someone posted a quoted from a stand up comedian here around the time of the bailout. It was (Paraphrasing), “You know why Chrysler is going under? Because they build ugly cars that nobody wants.”
I’d love to have a Fiat 500 Abarth. A Jeep, not so much but, then, half the town thinks that I’m gay because I drive a Miata. LOL!
change
@Kay:
I care because we’re wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars on a bailout rather than just letting them go Chapter 11 outside of the government. In the latter case they would have been bought by the Chinese, too, but in the route we chose we’re going to get the same end but spending a lot more time and money on it.
Check it out:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/11/saic-buys-1-of-gm-gets-keys-to-world-markets-thrown-in/
They’re already planning made in China Chevys for South America!
Bill
Wait, now you hate Robert Reich?
So let’s see, Reich blogs about GM taking bailout money and laying off massive amounts of workers anyway, says things like “Having General Motors or Chrysler cut tens of thousands of jobs in order to be eligible for a government bailout reminds me of “saving” Vietnam by bombing it to smithereens. Aren’t we giving these companies billions of taxpayer dollars to save jobs?”
In other words, things I can imagine most of the people here saying, in other circumstances.
There’s got to be some explanation, this is just odd. Unless… ah.
@Maude:
Bingo.
And thus he must be turned into a monster.
Wish him into the cornfield, John! Quickly!
Mr Furious
@stormhit:
Yet they still all got to run against the government, and the Democrats let them. If your Republican opponent supported the bailout, fine, but they will now contribute to a GOP House in DC that will bend Michigan over, it’s your job to drive that point home.
The media—led by NPR/Michigan Radio—treated the race for Governor like a done deal a year ago. Ann Arbor-based Snyder got annointed Governor as soon as he won the primary. The words “Massive Underdog” were grafted to Andy Dillon’s name.
Thankfully Snyder’s pretty much a Democrat compared to the other GOP candidates that ran, but I don’t expect him to resist much coming from a right wing-dominated House.
ChrisS
Globalization saddens me.
It had serious promise if implemented correctly. There would winners and losers in the US, the winners would compensate the losers, and everybody would be better off.
Unfortunately, the winners said, “Fuck OFF!, I earned this money and I’m going to keep it. You should blame the unions and government – if it weren’t for them, we’d have been able to keep your jobs here.”
And of course, we know who everyone listened to.
trollhattan
@Dennis SGMM:
The Mini remains popular in my neck of the woods, so I don’t know why the 500 couldn’t do similarly well if they gave it the Mini/Scion treatment and didn’t roll it in with a sea of Ram trucks and PT Cruisers and Calibers.
It’s been decades since I drove a Fiat, so here’s hoping they’ve done some of those quality control thingies.
Kay
@Bill:
You won’t address the substance.
The substance is this: 1. will Robert Reich revisit his hasty criticism of the GM bail out if it turns out okay for workers, and 2. will Robert Reich explain why none of his bold and brilliant ideas on industrial policy weren’t put into place when he was in charge?
Because if he won’t, he’s about as credible as George Will.
Jamie
Strangely, Obama seems completely unaware that there is a mini-industry focusing on his political destruction and negating any of his accomplishments.
4tehlulz
@Kay: Why are you responding to an agent of the People’s Liberation Army?
redoubt
@Bill: Don’t hate Robert Reich; just that on this he’s wrong. This is 1990s “lean and mean” corporate thinking, and it was just as wrong then.
When you have closed all the plants, broken all the unions, laid off all the workers, destroyed all their pensions, and “privatized” Social Security–what do you do then? Where do people go? Are they just supposed to go drown themselves?
Bill
@Bill H.:
Like others who made that argument, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Here’s more on the subject.
angler
@Bill: Agreed. This is just nutty. Yes, Reich = George Will. Have at it with the usual arguments.
Dennis SGMM
@trollhattan:
I drove FIATs in the Sixties. Even the smallest of them (The frog-eyed 500) was fun to drive. You’re right about QC though: back then, if you wanted to learn about auto repair then you could drive a FIAT.
Edit: FIAT was an acronym for “Fix It Again, Tony.”
PeakVT
I don’t think the government will make a profit on the deal, but saving hundreds of thousands of jobs will definitely keep revenues higher and costs lower for years to come. But that’s way too complicated for a wingnut, so don’t try this argument at home.
Kay
@angler:
Do the subsequent facts change his argument? In other words, does what actually happened in BP or GM matter?
Because, ya know, they should.
Bill E Pilgrim
Oh sorry, something lopped off my name in the prior two posts. Bill = me.
Bill E Pilgrim
@redoubt:
I don’t agree with you. It’s not saying that the corporation will do better if it sheds workers.
That’s what “lean and mean” meant.
Also your mild, if completely mistaken, IMO, critique, is not what I’m reading in some of the other comments, e.g. now Reich is “an idiot”.
Kay
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I don’t think he’s an idiot, but he is an expert, right? So if he announces the GM bailout is “off the rails” as far as workers in 2009, and that turns out not to be true, he should address that, right?
Or, if he announces that the best way to recoup losses in BP is to seize the company, and that turns out not to be true, that losses are recouped without that, he should revisit, right?
Or, does he just move on to the next critical analysis? Because that’s punditry. Where statements disappear two hours after they’re made, and there’s no subsequent follow-up or fact-finding.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Kay: I see. And you’ve addressed the substance, have you?
As credible as George Will. That’s your idea of a rational, substantive comment.
I’m sorry, it’s just becoming more ridiculous here every day.
As far as a direct answer to what you call the substance (aside from the part about how he’s as credible as the extreme right wing lunatic George Will because you disagree with one policy comment of his) will he address this?
A) I don’t know.
I’m not just being snarky, I don’t understand how my lack of being able to answer that means to you that “I won’t address the substance”.
Perhaps Reich will. Perhaps he has. You might go look.
To put it as plainly as possible, Robert Reich is more credible than George Will. That’s my opinion. I find yours absurd, and that WAS the substance of my post.
ruemara
@Kryptik:
Add in older, browner and wrongly gendered and you have my 2001-2010, with the latest kick in the gut happening yesterday. And I seem to be far, far too experienced. This will comfort me when I move into my car and return my beloved kitty to the shelter in a few months. I can’t understand any worker voting republican, the consequences have been far too shitty for this sort of delusion.
Mark S.
@Kryptik:
God that’s fucked up.
chopper
@Bill E Pilgrim:
wow, what a substantive comment.
as to your issue with the Will comparison, she originally asked if she could put Reich in the same bin as Will if he doesn’t revisit the issue. that’s why she was asking if you think he would do so, because that’s what the comparison hinges on. in other words, if reich watches GM come back on top and doesn’t come out and say ‘yeah, i was wrong about that’ then his credibility on GM is about as good as Will’s.
you appear to have completely missed that bit.
AliceBlue
The comment about the people of Michigan lining up to slit their own throats reminds me of a conversation my husband had with a co-worker. Mr. AliceBlue is a civil engineer who works for a large company with branches all over the country (and a few in other countries). In the past few years, the company has been concentrating more and more on “heavy civil” projects–roads, bridges, dams, power plants–because the demand for residential and commercial high rise buildings has diminished.
Anyway, this co-worker at one of the branches in Florida was bragging about how he had voted straight Republican in the midterms and how there was too much government involvement in everything, blah, blah, blah. Mr. AB listened calmly and said “you do realize that most of the work we’re doing relies on government money don’t you?” Dead silence on the other end of the line, then “oh, I didn’t think about that.” That brings me to the point. People simply don’t make connections and they don’t think. I don’t know what, if anything, can be done about it.
El Cid
Anyone remember how de riguer it was under Clinton and before and after NAFTA / MFN China to talk about how manufacturing jobs were the past, and American workers would soon be retrained for some sort of new high tech industries which somehow the 3rd world couldn’t do, and also have a glorious future in financial innovation?
I do. Reich was of that vintage.
Kay
@El Cid:
Everyone thought that. It was unanimous.
I think the problems in this country have been a long time coming, and both Republican and Democratic Presidents (and their respective cabinets) didn’t address them, and I think it is cowardly and an act of bad faith to pretend otherwise.
I expect every Carter-era critic and every Clinton-era critic who was in power to begin there. With what they did or didn’t do. Before they get to any analysis of what someone else did when it all came crashing down.
I know conservatives won’t do it. I expect liberals to do it.
scav
Nancy Smash! (So not all bad today. via TPM)
debbie
GM wasn’t particularly generous to the government in its prospectus for the current IPO.
But where would they be today without the government?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/11/04/131074939/3-strange-things-about-the-gm-ipo?ps=rs
ruemara
@debbie:
Government is bad, m’kay? Until we need a bailout, then it’s ok.
Just Some Fuckhead
I really like Robert Reich but “job retraining” is code for “we have no fucking idea what to do”. The blue collar jobs that are left out there don’t require a retraining program. They just require someone to be able to work for little more than minimum wage.
Dennis SGMM
@Kay:
I take it that you mean the government types who were working hard to make everyone hold still while their jobs disappeared.
On my own hook, I made he transition from top paid machinist to entry level IT person around 1992. I was able to do so because we had some money saved, much of my work had to do with programming CNC (Computer Numerical Control) machines, and I’d been a computer hobbyist for some time. Few of my fellow machinists had none of those advantages. Moreover, a substantial number of them were in their late forties or early fifties – not the best time in life to start at the bottom.
The high tech jobs were a lie from the get-go. Any worker who bought into it did so because hoping for that was better than admitting that they’d just been fucked.
aliasofwestgate
Regarding michigan?
yes, it was definitely a case of the local dems and indies staying home. i wasn’t one of them, so my facepalming at the results was a given. I did my thing and voted. We got steamrolled, and the constant stream of hatred for Granholm’s administration and anything she did really didn’t help matters.
She was a good governor, but not a spectacular one. Either one was going to draw GOP fire. I think MI will get by, but its going to be very rough going for the next several years. We were one of the first states to crash, and we’ll be one of the last to recover.
Riech’s an unmitigated arsehole, seeing as he doesn’t have family working those blue collar jobs nor has he ever worked one. I haven’t done factory work myself(my niche is in the healthcare industry), but i’d say at least half of my family HAS done work for the Big Three.
meander
A few weeks ago there was some trash talk on the front page about how the Volt’s fuel economy numbers were going to be far short of expectations — something like 35 MPG. But in MotorTrend’s car of the year article, they say the following about their real-world MPG tests:
El Cid
@Kay: Well, yes, there was pretty much a consensus among the powerful about this.
Plenty of people and groups dissented, but without effect.
And during this period, it was much more intense than the “deindustrialization” under Reagan because of the zoom in the high tech computer and internet industries and the related bubble.
But, of course, also because fuck workers, if retraining doesn’t lead to new jobs which may not exist, too fucking bad.
Origuy
@Zifnab:
Those plants in the South use suppliers who would have gone out of business if GM and Chrysler had gone under. Prices for US-made Hondas and Toyotas would have gone up as parts once made in the US would have been imported from Japan and Korea. Some of those plants would have closed eventually.
change
@meander:
You know what else one Motor Trend Car of the Year?
Totaly failures like the Chevy Citation, the straight-to-rental snooze that was the ’97 Malibu, the Chevy Vega, the ’92 Cadillac Seville…need I go on? The award is a joke, given to whoever advertises the most.
Oh, and on that note, the Chrysler K-cars also won in 1981 after Chrysler was bailed out the first time. They’re some of the crappiest small cars ever made.
Andy K
@Tom Betz:
That’s about it.
Fact is, over here on the west side of Michigan, barely anyone was effected by the bailouts. What GM plants there were weren’t coming back; and, despite the hue and cry about parts suppliers, they actually aren’t effected hugely by a downturn in new car sales: They can just switch over production to older parts, which are in demand as people try to keep their older cars running.
El Cid
@change: Motor Trend has never been the most discriminating at awarding the Car of the Year, particularly when that manufacturer has the heaviest advertising.
change
@El Cid:
If anything its a bad omen more of than not…though they’re not as embarrassing as Car and Driver is with their boner for all things BMW.
change
Oh and I have nothing personal against Detroit, I just know that there are too many car companies in the world and the long-term trend is towards consolidation. Chrysler is already pretty much owned by Fiat, and GM will end up with the Chinese (SAIC).
In 30 years there will be only seven independent car companies left in the world–Toyota, Volkswagen, Ford, Nissan-Renault, Fiat, Hyundai, Tata (from India) and SAIC. Every other brand will either be extinct or owned by one of the ones I listed. Basically one brand for each major automotive nation, excepting the bizarre Franco-Japanese Nissan/Renault.
The GM bailout just wasted money postponing the inevitable. China is already their most important market, yes, it has become more important than North America to GM.
goblue72
Reich is a smart lawyer who’s pulled off the con of convincing the public that he’s a trained economist by publishing a bunch of books with economic sounding words in the title. He’s like every other neoliberal lawyer who bought the free trade line that GATT would lead us to a Ricardian paradise of comparative advantage where 1st world countries got all the high paying “value added” jobs whilethe developing world did all the crappy manual labor stuff.
This is what you get when eggheads who never had to use their hands are in charge. Me, I’d rather listen to engineers like Andy Grove at Intel and Alan Mullaly at Ford (formerly with Boeing) who recognize that countries with factories are the ones who also get to keep all the engineering, R&D, and other jobs that keep companies (and countries) competitive.
For every Apple job in Cupertino, there are 10 Apple jobs in China.
Mr Furious
@meander: We tested a Volt aggressively over a 3-day period at my job, and I know one particular day’s worth of testing was 180 miles (with no charging) and used 4.1 gallons of gas. That’s 44 mpg under heavy and atypical use that even included track time.
Most drivers will recharge the car at least 3 or 4 times in that period, and probably would have used a gallon or two over 180 miles.
change
@goblue72:
A lot of Ford cars are actually Hecho en Mexico, amigo.
shecky
Robert Reich added to enemies list… check!
goblue72
Change, you really do insist in continually demonstrating that you were the guy in class voted least likely to succeed. Your arguments boil down to “well, since we can’t keep ALL the jobs, we shouldn’t try to keep any of them” – which is the kind binary thinking that morons engage in.
change
@goblue72:
The job of a CEO isn’t to create jobs in one particular area, its to make a profit. Mullaly makes more money by making the Fusion and Fiesta in Mexico (especially since they’re popular in Latin America).
You want an example of a car company that, after being taken over by the government, was told its mission was to “create jobs” instead of make money?
British Leyland. They ended up being liquidated.
goblue72
@change: What are you even talking about? What the does the “job of a CEO” have to do with having a national industrial policy that favors keeping manufacturing in the USA instead of letting the Chinese take it all?
I swear you are just 2.0 upgrade to the Brick Oven Bill Right-Wing Nutjob Emulator. Either you are a Grade A moron or a really good AI running out the basement of MIT Media Lab.
Bill H.
@Bill:
Have you actually read the 1990 act? I have. It’s a very long read. He can take control of the operation: the well in question and the operating grounds. He cannot “place the corporation into receivership.”
If an oil well fails in Oklahoma, he cannot assume control of Texas oil fields just because they belong to the same corporation. He can only assume control of the failed well in Oklahoma and the assets which are attached thereto.
The example that Reich cited was a nuclear reactor failing. At Three Mile Island the NRC took over operation of the reactor. It did not place the power company into receivership, it did not assume control of the power company, and it did not take control of any of the power company’s other operations. It merely took control of the failed reactor until the emergency was over and then returned control of the reactor to the power company.
Bill H.
@Bill:
From Reich:
That is sophistry and bullshit. A corporation is not “a collection of contracts.” It is a single entity with multiple owners. The stock certificate represents a share of ownwership, but it is not a piece of the corporation.
Bill Cole
@Mr Furious:
You mean in the Democratic primary? Simply not true.
Dillon lost the primary to Virg Bernero because he was Snyder-Lite: a corporatist moderate running as a Democrat instead of as a Republican. People who wanted a corporate manager as governor chose to vote in the GOP primary for the guy who made a better case for his competency: Snyder. Bernero was always a “Massive Underdog” to Snyder because he was always a placeholder generic candidate: the only legitimate Democrat in the primary, running for a job that no smart politician could want. He never made an argument that could win back the people who bought the Snyder argument that a corporate manager would be a good governor, and Snyder doesn’t inspire the sort of horror-driven voting that got Granholm re-elected and would have doomed Hoekstra.
I voted for Bernero in the primary and general, but both were almost entirely tribal gestures. I don’t think Michigan is going to be any worse off with Snyder, and it is hilarious to watch the wingnuts’ heads exploding about his anti-partisanism.