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You are here: Home / Sports / An Addendum to My Concerns About Russia Hosting the World Cup

An Addendum to My Concerns About Russia Hosting the World Cup

by | 88 Comments

This post is in: 

There was some skepticism about my concerns regarding the selection of Russia for the 2018 World Cup in my post yesterday and, while I linked to this article at the end of the comments section, I assume that most of you might have missed it as the post went to page 2 shortly after my comment.

The preparations for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi and the issues raised in the article should have given FIFA pause; assuming that they even bothered to investigate. Here are, to me, the two most stunning comments:

”Yes, there is thieving and swindling because this has been going on in Russia since time immemorial and will probably go on for ever,” wrote Georgy Cherdantsev, a commentator, in his blog. ”[But] the idea that we shouldn’t have the World Cup because all the money will be stolen doesn’t stand up.”

Even though a chunk of the estimated $50 billion price tag for the tournament might disappear into corrupt officials’ pockets, it would be impossible for them to steal everything. The stadiums and other infrastructure would still be built on time, he said.

and this:

Though it did not advertise the fact to FIFA before the vote, the Kremlin is aware of the pitfalls ahead. When Russia learnt that its World Cup bid had beaten England’s, Arkady Dvorkovich, a top aide to the President, Dmitry Medvedev, pointedly made a plea to anyone who would listen: ”Let’s do it without kickbacks.”

It reminds me of my favorite quote from Huey Long when he was governor of Louisiana: “We’ve got the roads in Louisiana, haven’t we? Some states only have the graft!”

Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I wasn’t extolling the virtues of Qatar yesterday. I just believe that Russia’s selection is far more disturbing.

Reader Interactions

88Comments

  1. 1.

    Yutsano

    Arkady Dvorkovich, a top aide to the President, Dmitry Medvedev, pointedly made a plea to anyone who would listen: ‘’Let’s do it without kickbacks.’‘

    And they say the Russians are humorless. Half of what kept the Soviet Union going was corruption. The fact that three fourths of Russia runs on it now should surprise no one. I’m willing to bet a few rubles greased a few palms along the way to the winning bid.

  2. 2.

    cmorenc

    I sure hope FIFA can keep all the referees and players not merely totally above-board from being corrupted, e.g. by Russian mafia for gambling-fixing, but totally above suspicion. It’s hardly unknown for players in eastern European countries to shade games corruptly for exactly that reason.

  4. 4.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: Three, technically, but yeah. Plus I got the day before Christmas Eve off, so that was kinda sweet. I’m exhausted though and I think I might go full blown hermit after work on Friday. After I get my co-workers drunk first though.

    Do you think old man Randinho will mind if we play on his lawn?

  5. 5.

    Calouste

    You’re surprised that Russia got the right to host the 2018 World Cup and that there will be corruption going on?

    Did you miss the story in May that the Chairman of the FA said that Spain asked Russia to help them bribe the referees and in exchange Spain would help Russia win the right to host the 2018 World Cup?

    Let me see, where are we now?

  7. 7.

    Yutsano

    @Calouste: Hush child! There is no corruption in soccer just like in America there are no cats!

    @asiangrrlMN: I think we run around the lawn as long as we want. Preferably naked. No flash photography please and thank you.

  8. 8.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Yutsano: I saw nekkid, and I’m all in!

    And, there is corruption everywhere. This kinda reminds me of the IOC and all the graft they get from the cities who host the Olympics. It’s not shocking at all.

  9. 9.

    Dennis SGMM

    I am shocked, shocked, that FIFA, renowned as it is for transparency and fair dealing, would even consider Russia as a site for the World Cup.

  10. 10.

    mclaren

    Even though a chunk of the estimated $50 billion price tag for the tournament might disappear into corrupt officials’ pockets, it would be impossible for them to steal everything. The stadiums and other infrastructure would still be built on time, he said.

    Was this comment made about Russia? Or about America?

    At this point, it’s hard to be sure.

  11. 11.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: It was really funny when after we invaded Afghanistan and pretended to give a shit for a short time before Iraq the military folks were shocked at the large amount of corruption present among the local governing bodies. The Afghans didn’t understand what the big deal was, as what we call bribery they’ve called doing business for thousands of years. Their government has always been for sale like that.

    It is very hard to type with a kitten attacking your arm.

  15. 15.

    Calouste

    @Yutsano:

    Want to have a solid, high-interest investment? Brazil is 7/2 at the moment to win the 2014 World Cup. 350% in 3 1/2 years is a nice return, and about as save as treasury bonds.

    Harry Reid can actually do some good and get his online gambling law through. I’d drop a few hundred on Brazil.

  16. 16.

    mclaren

    “They can’t steal all of it” joins that stirring endorsement from the Reagan era to justify appointment of a corrupt hack: “He hasn’t been indicted yet.” Along with “We’re not bankrupt yet!” these should be the new mottos on our currency.

  17. 17.

    Ija

    FIFA itself is too corrupt to make a big deal about Russia’s corruption. Why is Sepp Blatter still there? Isn’t he and his family like the grandaddy of all corruption?

  18. 18.

    Andy K

    @mclaren:

    I should just ignore you, but….

    Relative to most of the other candidates, the US doesn’t have to build a shitload of stadiums and infrastructure to host the World Cup- we’ve got the ability to handle the visitors, and we’ve got existing, FIFA-approved stadiums to handle events of this scope. The way I heard it a couple of years ago, we were fallback option #1 for WC 2010 had South Africa been unable to get their shit together and build the stadiums and infrastructure on time (and they were behind schedule for quite some time).

    Russia’s got a lot of concrete to be poured and rebar to be…rebarred?….And that’s easy pickins for grafters anywhere, let alone a country known for its graft.

  19. 19.

    Andy K

    @Calouste:

    Brazil is 7/2 at the moment to win the 2014 World Cup.

    I like (1982, dammit!) predict Germany to win it at this point. That young team looked damned good this summer.

  21. 21.

    Yutsano

    @Andy K: @Calouste: I sense a possible disagreement and potential discord. Which is why I will throw caution to the winds and predict Espana.

    @asiangrrlMN: Hehehe. I had that thought originally, but figured it would be too predictable.

  24. 24.

    Yutsano

    @Andy K: At this point I’m just making conversation more than anything, but I bet Spain could possibly repeat their triumph. Soccer seems to be a sport with no homefield advantage really, so it becomes a matter of grooming your native talent. Which makes Qatar very odd as a choice.

    @asiangrrlMN: I thought about going with FH #1’s country just to be argumentative but I also would like to be taken seriously on occasion.

  25. 25.

    ldrks

    If we had two world cups in Mexico (a country with a similar reputation for corruption, and GDP per capita), we can have a World Cup in Russia. At least Russia, as opposed to Qatar, has over a half-million citizens, and actually plays/likes the sports, is in an area that has never had a world cup, has been successful in the world cup (as the USSR at least) and has a viable league. That’s not to say that there isn’t a real downside to a Russian World Cup (civil rights, England technically had by far the best bid), but it’s a lot less suspect than Qatar.

  26. 26.

    Yutsano

    @ldrks: Also, though this may have changed: Russia has an HIV travel ban. China had to lift theirs as a condition of getting the 2008 Olympics, I wonder if similar pressure will come into play here.

  27. 27.

    burnspbesq

    Just wondering … If you had bet 10 pounds on both Spurs and Shaktar Donetsk winning their Champions League groups, could you buy the entire country of Qatar?

  30. 30.

    Andy K

    @Yutsano:

    …I bet Spain could possibly repeat their triumph.

    Yeah, don’t get me wrong- they very well could. But other than the age factor, there’s this: Traditionally, the relationship between the Catalans on the team and those who consider themselves Spaniards is very tenuous. That I didn’t hear about players waving the Senyera after Euro ’08 or WC ’10 was pretty amazing. I don’t know how long that unity can last.

  31. 31.

    Yutsano

    @burnspbesq: Depends. Are you including the oil rights in that as well?

    @asiangrrlMN: Am I solid on that fact? No. Teh Google says it’s still in effect though I bet IOC leans on Russia like they did China.

  35. 35.

    Tattoosydney

    @Yutsano:

    I thought about going with FH #1’s country just to be argumentative but I also would like to be taken seriously on occasion

    How do you write manic laughter? We got no chance.

    Brazil all the way!

  36. 36.

    Yutsano

    @Tattoosydney: You just want a good excuse to show off your linguistic skills and get drunk out of your gourd on caprinha. Not that these are bad things mind you.

    Buona notte. Pistachios are teh nom.

  38. 38.

    Calouste

    @Andy K:

    We’re not talking about the merits of the teams in this thread. We have a 5-time World Champion that fairly dramatically didn’t win the Cup at home when it was held there a lifetime ago. That’s just not going to repeat itself, it’s really bad marketing.

  41. 41.

    Tattoosydney

    @Yutsano:

    FYWPDIAFYFPOSF.

    Sim. As caipirinhas são muitas boas e muitas alcoólicas. Gosto muito das caipirinhas e dos homens brasileiras. Nom.

  43. 43.

    Tattoosydney

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Fuck You Word Press Die in a Fire You Fucking Piece of Shit Fucker.

    Missed an opportunity for at least one more “F” in there I suspect.

  47. 47.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Tattoosydney: Ah. Yes. I missed the one fucking. If you want more fucking (and don’t we all), then you could say, Fuck You Fucking Word Press Die in a Fucking Fire You Fucking Piece of Shit Fucker.

    @burnspbesq: Goooooal! I think that’s more appropriate. And, I’m still laughing my nonexistent ass off.

    @arguingwithsignposts: Digging the first tune so far. Ooh, it’s a bit tricky in the second minute. And, glad to see you and The Somebody are still together. How’s your arm? Lady Smudge is so beautiful. And, yes, my thoughts are a jumble right now, why you ask?

  48. 48.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Tattoosydney:

    Fuck You Word Press Die in a Fire You Fucking Piece of Shit Fucker.

    Fuck You Word Press Die in a *fucking* Fire You Fucking Piece of *Fucking* Shit Fucker.

    Feel your inner South Park, TS.

    ETA: I see Big Rusty Farm Implements beat me to this, so ignore as required.

    Update IIXVIIILMVI: W00t, time travel!

  51. 51.

    burnspbesq

    It is often said that in New York, there has never been a single yard of concrete poured that met specifications.

    I expect the same will be true of all of the construction in Russia for the World Cup. It’s the easiest way ever discovered to improve the profit margin of a construction project, and the cost of bribing building inspectors is de minimis.

    And it’ll all be fine until a chunk breaks off and falls on a little kid’s head.

  54. 54.

    Yutsano

    @burnspbesq:

    It is often said that in New York, there has never been a single yard of concrete poured that met specifications.

    This would explain why the brand-new Yankee Stadium is falling apart less than a year after its grand opening. And yes I do enjoy that sweet schadenfreude mightily.

  55. 55.

    Anne Laurie

    I’m waiting impatiently for the guys at Exiled Online (who got their start in journamalism writing about corruption in Russia) to weigh in on this. Not that Mark Ames (or Matt Taibbi) are necessarily going to be right, but I’m sure they’ll be entertaining. Hmm, wonder if Taibbi will get to cover the venue for Men’s Sports?

  60. 60.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: Wild Ginger and the Pacific Science Center. And yeah it’s a tourist trap, but the Space Needle really is worth seeing from the top platform. Plus they have a wonderful (pricey) restaurant up there. Gas Works Park, Experience Music Project, Pike Place Market, Capitol Hill, yeah, we got a few things hiding out in the rain up here.

  62. 62.

    suzanne

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    You are all cudlips. Wallah, I hate you all. The OOOD is WAI. Naow! /matoko_chan

    That was spot-on.

    I’ve figured it out: matoko_chan is a LOLcat addled by the fumes from the meth lab.

  64. 64.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: Oh dammit. Too late for me to delete too. Sigh. I’ll just have to live with the consequences and be somewhat satisfied that it’s night shift so the damage will be minimal.

  65. 65.

    Paula

    Re South Africa: the actual investment by the government (hence the people) turned out to be far more than the original estimates and despite the massive profits that companies like Coke made on the event, little of it actually went back to them. Now the same thing is happening in Brazil …

    I had no real objections to Russia given that they’ve hosted and will host international competitions of this size @ least a couple of times before, and I also have a hard time believing that any bidding nation and their private sector corporate enablers are going to be strictly above board about this shit. But from the OP it sounds like a similar thing to RSA and BRZ is going to happen/is happening in Russia — in which a relatively small group of people profit from this massively expensive undertaking but regular people get squat in return for their investment.

    And as for Qatar — yay for money that will have all those fancy stadiums as large and as cool as you want. But how much you want to bet that those bid funders will want to foist as much of the actual cost of the tourney onto the regular folks. What’s their average yearly income, exactly? Also, I’m pretty confused as to why Qatar had to present the bid all by themselves. I mean, even Spain, Portugal, Holland, and Belgium felt like they were stronger on their combined bids just because, hey, land!! Different places for people and stadiums to go!

    I think it’s important for the ME to be able to hold an event of this type, just like it was important for the Americas and African countries to be able to hold their first WCs. But it would be four straight world cups of worrying whether people would actually build stadiums, then worrying about filling them up, and finally worrying about their future use and the long-term effects of the debt on the host country. NOT FUN.

  68. 68.

    Yutsano

    @suzanne:

    I’ve figured it out: matoko_chan is a LOLcat addled by the fumes from the meth lab.

    And it’s awake. You’ve been warned/titillated.

  70. 70.

    asiangrrlMN

    @arguingwithsignposts: True. I would much rather do that than watch a chick flick or a dick flick.

    Oh.mah.gah. I am choking on my laughter. If I didn’t know better, I would suspect that you ARE MC. We are all cudlips now!

    @Paula: I love how you can go from this nuanced account to this:

    Taibbi writes about soccer?
    Remind me to stay the fuck away from it.

    Heh. And, no. He used to write about the corruption in Russia.

    @Yutsano: You talking about MC or the sprog of suzanne?

  71. 71.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: It took me a sec to figure out how the sprog fit into that, then I read what I wrote and it made a bit more sense. I suppose I could be sarcastic and say yes, but I really really wanna see bebeh pics.

  73. 73.

    Yutsano

    @asiangrrlMN: Go lay down hon. I’m going to bed now anyway. suzanne and the space alien can manage things in the interim. Plus I really need to get to Friday. Tomorrow is nothing but paperwork day. Woot.

  74. 74.

    Paula

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I mean, I have reason. Have you ever listened to left-leaning people go off on soccer and politics and … It was really clear they were just taking what they “knew” about global politics and transposing onto an arena that is substantially different?

  75. 75.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Paula: Yep. mclaren was doing it earlier upthread. I wasn’t being snarky when I said I liked the way you jumped from one to the other. I thought it was excellent.

    @Yutsano: I think I will after taking a bath (hopefully, I won’t fall asleep). Night, all.

  76. 76.

    Calouste

    @Paula:

    Really, Brazil is not going to have to worry about filling up the stadiums. If they make tickets available at a reasonable price for the locals.

  77. 77.

    trizzlor

    I remember hearing a talk on Russia after shock-therapy which described a “corruption fee” of 10% on any imports and exports; so if you wanted to make money overseas you had to guarantee at 20% profit right out the gate – that’s a fine way to keep investments at home.

    Also, Sochi is beautiful.

  78. 78.

    Andy K

    @Paula:

    I wouldn’t expect that from Taibbi. He played professional hoops in Russia and Mongolia, and he worked in Russia as a sports journalist in Russia before founding The Exile. I’d expect good, offbeat and insightful from him…If he wants to risk ingesting polonium.

  79. 79.

    Richard

    I have to say the original article written for the London Telegraph was a pathetically bad example of journalism. I do have to ask if anybody commenting on this site has actually been to Russia?

    I have been there a number of times over the last two decades, and have to question the veracity of the article.

    Now I’m not going to say there is no corruption in Russia. That would be stupid, but tell me does the United States not have it’s own problems with the mob?

    Take for example the story of the murders that the article brought up; what did it have to do with this article? It was a tragic murder, but are we saying there are no murders in America? This particular murder took place over two hundred miles away from Sochi. Are we actually saying Washington DC could never hold an event because a criminal gang in Baltimore or Philadelphia committed a murder?

    Or take the example of the cost of roads; the high cost of roads in Russia has a number of factors, again corruption does lend to some cost, but also they wrap the cost of purchasing and clearing the land into the costs. In addition if anyone has been to Russia, you know the land in a great deal of the country is soft marsh and tundra. Constructing roads in places where permafrost is prevalent means you have to dig deeper and set thicker foundation, all of which leads to greater costs.

    Again I am not stating that there is not corruption or graph in Russia. The country has come a long way since the mid 1990’s, but it still has a long long way to go. But I would ask you to consider, while the article linked to was from Australia, it was written by the London Telegraph, and I can tell you that Britain is pissed that they lost to Russia. They are sure that they had the best presentation and bid, but lost misrably. The British tabloids are now lashing out at Russia.

    I would also council taking the Wikileak cables about Russia with a grain of salt. A large number of the Russia centric reports are from when the Bush administration was in charge. Dick Cheney absolutely hates Russia, and was striving to make Russia enemy number 1 again. I’m not saying the messages from US diplomats were false, but let’s just say there would be no damage to one’s career for a Foreign Officer to focus more on things that would paint Russia as a corrupt state controlled by the mob, and just skip those signs that Russia is improving.

    Last, if you look historically at articles written in Great Britain about Russia, you will find similar journalism, and I mean going back to the early 1800’s. There has always been a rivalry between England and Russia that has tainted the news paper coverage.

    Again, yes there is corruption in Russia. Yes the country has a long way to go, but Russia today is very similar to where South Korea was in the early ’70s. It is not the best place to be, but it is improving, and actually making remarkable progress.

  81. 81.

    Dan

    Was in russia in 2005. we were having a conversation with some russians in their mid 20’s about the situation in the US. Drug policy came up and the russians were shocked that you could be thrown in jail for drug possession. “don’t you just pay the cops?” they asked.

    Same thing for college. Tuition isn’t bad but you need to pay the equivalent of thousands of dollars to someone at the school to make sure you’re application is accepted.

    One night we were walking home from a bar minding our own business. Cops stopped us, patted us down, went through our wallets and told us to go home. We got back to the hotel and $50 was missing.

    These are just some examples from a two week trip. I was also told that there’s a big problem in russia where pieces of real estate are often sold multiple times. The owners then find out they’re not the only ones who think they own the property.

  83. 83.

    vanya

    Randinho,

    You are simply a Russophobic a-hole with, apparently, very little appreciation of Eastern European football. Sorry to be so blunt. Russia has been in love with football since the end of the 19th century. Some of the world’s greatest footballers have come from Russia – Lev Yashin, Oleg Blokhin, Eduard Streltsov, Valery Voronin, etc. Teams like Spartak, Zenit and TSKhA have legacies that compare to any major team in Western Europe. What is the USA to that? And Qatar is simply a joke. Corruption in Russia is a serious problem – but crime is far worse in Brazil or South Africa. Russia will pull off the World Cup and deserves to host it.

  85. 85.

    Paula

    asiangrrlMN: was thinking the exact same thing.

    Calouste: I hope so! I also hope that FIFA doesn’t repeat the mistake of assuming that everyone has access to internet and makes all of these tickets available online, as happened in SA (according to a freelance journo I spoke to, anyway).

    Andy K: Damn Putin! Seriously WTF is up with that guy? He’s fulfilling every lame stereotype of evil Russian overlords we have.

  86. 86.

    Randy Paul

    @vanya: Vanya, this is your first and only warning. Don’t come in and call me or anyone else names. I provided an opinion supported by evidence. If you can’t keep it civil and address the issue on the merits don’t comment.

    I’m well aware of the Russian/Soviet football tradition and I’m not disputing it, so your comment regarding that is irrelevant. That’s simply not the issue here and attacking me for bringing up unpleasant facts doesn’t change the facts.

    As for Brazil, I hasten to point that Rio de Janeiro staged the Pan American Games in 2007 without incident. That helped them in getting both the WC and the 2016 Summer Olympics. Let’s see how Russia pulls off the Olympics in Sochi in three years. They have an excellent winter sports tradition, but that hardly guarantees success in staging the Olympics

  87. 87.

    vanya

    Randy,

    If you can’t see how terrifically insulting your posts are to Russia and Russian people in general, I’m sorry for you.

  88. 88.

    Randy Paul

    @vanya: As opposed to calling me an asshole. Your lack of self awareness is a thing of wonder.

    I didn’t insult the Russian people and it’s really rather narcissistic of you to believe that if you are offended by the fact that corruption is widespread in Russia (as attested to by some Russians), then I have “oofended the Russian people.” I merely presented some facts and facts are troublesome things.

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