Here’s your “Bernie Sanders has more stamina than I do” open thread. TPM is streaming Sanders’ filibusteresque speech. He’s been going for almost seven hours. Whaddya think?
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by Imani Gandy (ABL)| 313 Comments
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Here’s your “Bernie Sanders has more stamina than I do” open thread. TPM is streaming Sanders’ filibusteresque speech. He’s been going for almost seven hours. Whaddya think?
Comments are closed.
Omnes Omnibus
I listened for a while; he was on fire. What brought this on?
Jeff
I’m loving it!
carlos the dwarf
Bernie Sanders is the awesome grandfather I never had.
MikeBoyScout
Of course he’s great. Sanders is a bona fide socialist.
The Dangerman
Doin’ it old school; I like it. Should be mandatory part of filibuster.
Actually, I’m hoping that the Dems go kinda nuclear, change the filibuster from 60 to 55, then pass middle class tax cuts, DADT, and START … and go home. I’m also hoping for a Playboy Playmate riding a Unicorn under my tree at Christmas.
TheMightyTrowel
His brother is a green party city councillor in Oxford where I live – he’s not my rep, but i feel warm and fuzzy thinking about how my city elected a Sanders.
jinxtigr
I’d like to know too. He’s my Senator, I’ll keep voting for him, he’s very on top of things but I don’t think him infallible. If he’s doing this it’s for a reason and it might be a very good reason or it might be a mistake.
Only straight-up socia1ist in the Senate, I think- and recently gave a speech on income inequality that was phenomenal. I tweeted him and told him not to fly in any small planes. I was serious :)
ruemara
Love him. This is ridiculous. What’s the Senate alternative plan? What can pass? I don’t want tax cuts for the rich either. I just don’t know what the Senate passing alternative is right now. And the House bill that was sent earlier will expire, so they can’t vote on it. Where was all this fight earlier in the year, why haven’t they been pushing Reid on filibuster reform? This just makes me sick.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Well, I think that the idea that after four years of paralysis and filibusters in the senate, it’s really great that the best these idiots can give us for Christmas is another filibuster and the promise of some more paralysis. Thanks, so much.
And I think that if the Dems in congress had done their jobs the last four years, we wouldn’t be in this fucked up situation in the first place. These assholes could not manage their own caucus, and now they want to blame the White House for “not standing up for them?” Fuck ’em.
c u n d gulag
Uhm, maybe my political compass is off, but, wasn’t it the point to have the RepubliConfederate Party filibuster this, and not a member of the Democratic Caucus?
Oy vey, and aye-yai-yai!!!
Does any Democrat know how to play this ‘Politics’ game?
Don’t answer that!
Democrats – when there’s a gun fight, come armed with a rubber spork.
Yeeeeeeeeesh…..
j
Why doesn’t he just Twitter it in, like that nitwit from the North? You betcha, also, too.
J/K
General Stuck
Gotta love Bernie. I don’t agree with him on everything, but most things. No votes scheduled till monday when a cloture vote is scheduled for obama’s deal, I think. If Bernie can keep it up till then and beyond, I want what he’s having.
K siraw, whatever will be , will be.
Stooleo
Bernie Sanders, filabusting like it wasn’t fucking nothing!
Dee Loralei
D.Aristophanes over at Sadly, No! Has an interesting and thoughtful take on the entire tax package. The link is on the right of the page, for the folks who aren’t Sadlynaughts.
And I love Bernie!
joe from Lowell
Shiny, sparkly thing for people who want politics to be like the GI Joe cartoons.
Old man talks a lot, while the Senate calendar slips away.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@c u n d gulag:
It’s more like the Republicans know they don’t need a gun, they bring the spork. The Dems think it’s a gun and run away.
The biggest problem with the USA is the Democrats. We all know — hell, even the GOP knows — that Republicans are crazy. We’re supposed to be the sane ones. But we can’t lead our own coalition.
Obama is exactly right to distance himself from these sorry lying self-protecting losers. Best thing he has done in a while.
alwhite
The place I work runs Bloomberg TV all day in the lunchroom. I was passing through a little while ago & they mentioned Sanders. Indicative of the quality of modern ‘journalism’
“What is Sen. Sanders saying about the tax bill?”
“Right now he his complaining about his cell phone service, apparently they don’t get good coverage in Vermont”
Way to cover the real story there Skippy!
mistermix
http://isberniestillfilibustering.com/
Linus
I love that Bernie is doing this. But unfortunately the Senate wasn’t going to vote for anything until Monday, anyway, so it appears that it is all only for show.
Just Some Fuckhead
We are all socia1ists now.
water balloon
What’s this about the senate calendar? The Republicans are filibustering everything, nothing’s getting done anyway.
EdTheRed
Hah-hah! Yeah! So many confusing things out there!
Softail
I for one welcome our new socialist overlords
Suffern ACE
@alwhite: Fox was covering the important story of a swimsuit designer found dead in a hotel.
tfitz
It’s about time, we need much more of this. Get off your couches, turn off the TV, get engaged and pay attention.
BR
Gotta say, yesterday I was thinking eh, I guess the deal is barely okay.
But listening to Sanders and reading what I’ve read today, there’s just no way to see it as anything but crap.
And never mind that Mark Penn is now shilling for the deal.
mr. whipple
@Linus:
Got the fund raising email from Bernie yesterday. I’ll temper my cynicism over this move by sending him some coin, but c’mon….
Alison
I’m loving this and am glad he’s doing it…and it’s such a serious subject…but I can’t stop myself from wondering about the bathroom issue.
I mean. Really. How does that work? Depends? A jar under the podium? Amazing muscular control and an exploded bladder in three days?
jinxtigr
Looks like what broke Bernie is the prospects of even bigger tax breaks for the rich. Huh. I’m not sure whether he’s helping or hurting anything, but I can see why he snapped. I’m guessing he thinks he can stop it by filibustering it? Interesting.
Rugosa
If the “tax breaks for the rich” are not extended, they expire — when? December 31st? Think he can talk until then?
I wonder how many senators are actually in the chamber? I wonder how many of them realize how this is going to sound in foreign newspapers….
Nellcote
I love Bernie but where was this drama 2 months ago? I still haven’t seen the congressional dems Big Plan that Prez Obama apparently screwed up by making a decision without them. The “middle class” tax cut was already fillibustered 2 weeks ago.
Parrotlover77
Bernie Sander is awesome. I’ve found that when he makes a point I disagree with, I really do need to step back and reevaulate my position because a lot of the time he brings up an angle to an issue I had not thought of.
That said, I have looked at the compromise, read Sanders’ position, look at the compromise again, continued to listen ot Sanders, but I just don’t think this is the issue for him to do this on.
I’m not happy about billionaires holding America hostage for tax cuts either, but the compromise is pretty positive, IMHO. The stimulative funding and tax breaks attached to it are great.
I really think they should just pass this damn thing and move on.
Where I would really, really, like to see Sanders kick it old school is over defense authorization after DADT is eventually taken out of it. I would stand behind him on that because there’s really not much of a downside. The military will still keep kicking — it’s an unstoppable machine. But the message it would send would be tremendous. Sure, Republicans would bring up their terrrrrrism strawmen, but somehow I don’t think that would be very useful (politically) against a Sanders.
So, anyway, this is one of the few times I think Sanders isn’t doing the right thing. Remember, he was in the Pass The Damn Bill camp with healthcare, so this is a little surprising.
I’m sort of wondering what sparked this as The Issue To Fillibuster for him. The eleven-dimensional chess player in me is wondering if Obama and Sanders planned this all along to make Obama look bipartisanny to the media while Sanders became The Enforcer to try to bend the compromise back the other way. But I just don’t see either of them farting ponies yet, so it will remain an eleven dimensional theory composed entirely of dark matter and dark energy.
scav
It may be a fili-event but it’s public, it’s theater , it’s political, it’s shambling and silly and grand: it’s somebody stopping and pointing out that the emperor and his court have no clothes and are prancing about congratulating themselves on their sense of style.
BR
Oh, and if you haven’t called your senators / congresspeople, call them.
And the Congressional Black Caucus has proposed a better bill, and I’m sure Sanders has in mind what a better bill would look like as well.
andynotadam
I’ve been listening to him for a couple hours. His outrage is righteous and he is right to be outraged.
I was initially open to the deal and I thought it was a great way for Obama to spend the next several days beating the Republican’ts (Republiwon’ts?) over the head over their going to the mat over tax cuts for the richest 1% all else be damned. Sadly, the president went back to his office all huffy, and it took the Dems in the house to grow a spine.
Now I’m thinking Harry should go for an up or down on the House cuts for the 98% only and, when that fails to win 60 votes, let all the tax cuts expire (and a pox on all your houses). How much worse can it get?
Martin
@ruemara:
There isn’t one. They have the House bill, and Obama’s, but that’s it. If there’s discussion on a compromise outside of the WH, nobody is mentioning it from what I’ve seen.
Not that I blame them – the current climate is such that any hints of a plan get greeted with full-on rebellion from both sides. It’s kind of cool, actually.
Zifnab
We need to clone him and run him in every state.
Kristine
Go Bernie!
In other news, I want to report that IE 8, my day job browser, hates BJ even more than IE6 did. Up until today, every time I opened BJ, IE complained that it had to readjust the page in order to open it. I’m not techie enough to figure out what it had to do.
Today, I couldn’t open BJ at all. It either crashed IE8 or IE8 just shut it down and took me to the previous page I had been viewing.
No issues with Safari or FF.
TooManyJens
@joe from Lowell:
They weren’t taking any votes today anyway, so he isn’t burning up time that they would otherwise be using to pass bills.
The shit he’s saying needs to be said. God knows there’s no other way to get anyone to listen to it.
If they think they can get a better deal, they should go for it. If that fails, I think they need to suck it up and vote for the deal that’s now on the table. That’s what I’ve been telling my congresscritters.
BR
@Parrotlover77:
The one major thing that I didn’t think enough about that Sanders is very right about is that it’ll be damn near impossible to ever end these tax breaks if we extend them now. They’d have been in place for about 12 years at that point, extended two times, and the pressure to continue them during the 2012 campaign, with a GOP house, will make it virtually impossible. And the estate tax bit, and the payroll tax holiday – those will become defacto permanent as well, which means we’ll have to fix the funding gap for Social Security somehow, and I’m sure the GOP will push to “reform” it.
Michael
God in heaven, this is stupid.
The unemployed need relief now, not later.
The progressive preeners (the EmoProgs) from heterogenous places like Vermont are going to ensure that the first people the angered-to-fascism unemployed blue collar white guys are going to go after in the Sarah Palin Administration are…
…wait for it…
going to be the progressive preeners.
I think I want to make sure that I’m out in front of the crowd heaving a few bricks through Alan Grayson’s, kos’ and slinkerwink’s windows.
Jamie
Talk, Bernie, just keep talking! I wonder how long he keeps it up?
RosiesDad
I’m as agnostic as you can be but let me just say, “God Bless Bernie Sanders.” It may be hours spent in futility (I’d like to see how many Senators are actually in the chamber; I suspect the room is near-empty) but as an act of courage and principle, his speech today is huge.
We deserve a chamber full of Bernie Sanders and instead we’ve got one of him among a room full of ass clowns.
TooManyJens
@andynotadam:
A lot of people can’t afford to find out the answer to that question.
@RosiesDad: I’ve been listening for five and half hours and have barely heard any response in the chamber, so I think you’re right and there are probably five people there. But, you know, we’re here.
Sentient Puddle
I didn’t even realize that no vote was planned until Monday. That leads me to become entirely ambivalent about what Sanders is doing. Now I know it’s all show.
And it leaves me sort of amazed that a lot of you are all gung-ho about it.
Rugosa
These t-b’s are supposed to help with job creation. This is not an experiment — they have been in place for several years, and the unemployment rate has consistently increased. Why are they pushing to continue a scheme that has been such a miserable failure?
jl
I think we need a better compromise on the failed GWB tax cut for the rich, and on extension of unemployment insurance.
If Sanders’ stunt (I don’t think his filibuster is actually blocking anything) and the House Democrats’ revolt gets us one, that I like them.
I care not whit for the empty political gaming talk fest going on everywhere, it seems. Even on the good news radio station here, all I heard was interview after interview about symbols, and messages, and end games, and posturing, and all this nonsense. Usually given by some politico reporter, who either would not or could not ever answer a question of substance, just emit politico BS. It was Kabuki press coverage.
Parrotlover77
@BR: I just don’t agree with that. I don’t see the two year extension lasting longer than maybe one more two year extension. There is no such thing as permanent tax cuts (or tax hikes, for that matter). Look at the history of the income tax. It changes all the time.
I do think that it’s fiscally irresponsible to continue the tax cuts (all of them) long term, but in this recession, the middle class cuts are probably a fairly worthwile investment in the short term. And the tax cuts for the rich, while morally reprehensible, don’t really cost all that much.
Anyway, we’re fighting over fairly small potatoes here. The tax plan that Obama, the House, and Sanders really want only saves like 200 billion over the lifetime of the extension. It’s a lot of money, but it’s miniscule compared to the defense budget (which is every liberal’s favorite punching bag, mine especially). It’s really not a whole lot more saving than earmark reform.
And we all agree we need to basically spend our way out of the recession right? If not, then your point is more valid, but I’m not super-concerned about the deficit right now. In two or three years, I might be, but not right now.
BR
@Sentient Puddle:
I had the same initial reaction, and then I realized – this is important. Bernie Sanders is the top topic on twitter right now, and CSPAN is barely able to keep up with the traffic of people watching. And Sanders keeps reminding folks to call their senators. That means that a lot of folks hear good arguments and get reminded to call their senators to improve the bill.
Skepticat
I don’t know enough to make an intelligent comment on whether this will make any positive difference, but I’m happy to at last see someone on this side do something to put his mouth where our money is.
ruemara
@BR:
Oh what’s this? Point me to a link if you can, I’d like to have a gander at an alternative.
jl
@Sentient Puddle: If Sanders is making good points, providing evidence, and good arguments, and it helps push the public debate towards dealing with the substantive points (rather than politico style nonsense), then I do not think it is all show, even if his filibuster is not blocking an important vote.
mr. whipple
I’m wondering, if there was a real vote on this thing now, whether he’d vote for it. He said he wouldn’t vote for HCR, too.
If he caves, will there be renewed calls to primary him?
TooManyJens
@BR: Exactly. He’s trying to get people engaged, and it sounds like he’s having some success.
BR
@Parrotlover77:
I don’t see how that’s going to happen – the GOP will have even more power for the next two years, and Dems will be running for cover even more. The GOP will hold everything – the debt ceiling, etc. – hostage until they get a deal, and if Obama gave them a deal now, why wouldn’t he do it two years from now?
duck-billed placelot
This ‘compromise’ destroys the funding system for Social Security. Think a pay roll tax holiday won’t become permanent? Think a Republican (or, hell, any) Congress will actually divert enough general funds to cover the gap? Sure will be easier to fix Social Security when it’s going broke in 5 or 10 years instead of some unfathomable time in the future…
This is not a suck-it-up-and-help-the-rich-too vote. This is a vote about whether Social Security is actually secure.
BR
@ruemara:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/congressional-black-caucus-offers-progressive-friendly-tax-cut-proposal.php
Not sure where the details are, but I’m sure they’ll be up on their webpage at some point.
MBunge
@BR: The one major thing that I didn’t think enough about that Sanders is very right about is that it’ll be damn near impossible to ever end these tax breaks if we extend them now.
At any point, Congress could pass a tax increase on the rich without touching the existing tax rates on everybody else. Or they could pass a permanent tax cut for every body else and then let the tax cut for the rich expire. There is not a damn thing stopping the Dems from doing that now and there wasn’t a damn thing that stopped them from at least trying to do it for the last 4 years.
The problem is that Sanders’ peers and the Dems in the House are fuckin’ cowards who want the tax cuts to magically disappear while they can deny any responsibility for it. Which means they are also stupid, because they’ll be blamed for it no matter what.
Mike
General Stuck
@mr. whipple:
I don’t think you can primary a soshulist. I think you send them to Siberia, or at least Buffalo.
BR
@MBunge:
Well, Sanders will still be right, but maybe because his peers are cowards.
Curt
Keep up the incredible effort Senator Sanders! We should all express how supportive we are of his efforts. The “Deal” is not good. There is no way the Republicans would have stopped unemployment. They just threatened not to extend benefits until after the top 3% got their tax breaks renewed.
ajr22
Bernie filibuster>>>Stackhouse filibuster
Emerald
I love me some Bernie Sanders but I gotta ask:
If Bernie gets what he wants and kills the bill, and all those unemployed are cut off from their income, and everybody else’s taxes shoot up and that kills the recovery . . .
Will Bernie take his share of the blame?
On the other hand, this new stimulus–more than we got in 2009–can kick the economy into gear and help the Democrats and Obama with re-election. Otherwise . . . well, I won’t speculate.
mr. whipple
@General Stuck: I thought the gulags were in the Northern Kingdom?
BGinCHI
Compare this to Tea Partiers shouting down people in wheel chairs, or Senators like Coburn who can’t even put two sentences together.
I agree that this is not going to singlehandedly solve the UI extension problem or keep the rich from getting a tax break, but the left needs to do something that wakes up the voters outside the crazy 28%.
People need to get angry and vocal and stop taking what the GOP is shelling out.
Maybe it starts with one old man talking in a room.
Observer
Bernie is showing Obama and the other hapless Dems how to be passionate about something and, literally, stand up for what you believe in while gracefully and politely trashing the other guy, all the while not worrying about what some people will say about him.
In other words, he’s acting like a Republican.
Good stuff.
BR
@ajr22:
That’s what came to mind.
Alex
The Democrats did vote for tax breaks on sub-$250,000, completely by itself with nothing else. It was filibustered by the Republicans.
Zifnab
@Emerald:
Damn that Bernie Sanders, for opposing extensions to UI! Damn him and his socialist, anti-UI policies!
:-p If Bernie Sanders successfully filibusters the Bush Tax Cuts, it will flood the US Treasury with new revenue. More than enough revenue to extend UI.
If the Senate puts up a UI extension bill, Bernie Sanders will vote in favor of it.
So I don’t think you can blame Bernie Sanders for ending UI benefits. That fault lies squarely with the Senators that oppose UI extension legislation.
Emerald
@Curt:
Nonsense. They want the economy to stall until they’re back in power. The only way Obama loses is if the economy is still bad in 2012.
The Republicans are quite happy to see the unemployed out in the cold. They care about one thing: their billionaires and their corporations and screw the rest of us.
Parrotlover77
@BR: I think we have different definitions of permanent. As I said before, I see a possiblity of another extension in 2012. After that, I just don’t see how. The Republicans of today will not be electable in 10 years. Their support only exists in the oldest age group of whites. That’s it. They are a significant group now, but they are all on the Mobility Scooter Sidewalk to Hell. Certainly by 2016, the rabid attack against taxes should have settled down, especially since by then the economy will be in an uptick. By 2020, this will probably all seem pretty ridiculous.
It really is a perfect storm right now against raising taxes. We have unprecedented abuse of Senate rules, the worst recession since The Depression, the most insane opposition party maybe ever, and Skating With the Stars is a teevee show people actually watch. It’s truly a spectacle.
We’re going to look back at political freakout in 2010 a lot like we look back at the home bomb shelter silliness from the 50s/60s.
Alex
@Curt:
Unemployment benefits have already been blocked by the Republicans. They ran out two weeks ago.
Zifnab
@Emerald:
Damn that Bernie Sanders, for opposing extensions to UI! Damn him and his soci alist, anti-UI policies!
:-p If Bernie Sanders successfully filibusters the Bush Tax Cuts, it will flood the US Treasury with new revenue. More than enough revenue to extend UI.
If the Senate puts up a UI extension bill, Bernie Sanders will vote in favor of it.
So I don’t think you can blame Bernie Sanders for ending UI benefits. That fault lies squarely with the Senators that oppose UI extension legislation.
General Stuck
@BGinCHI:
What will come next year from the teabag goopers in the House will likely piss off Elvis, and he’s dead, maybe.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
We are nine minutes from him doing this for 8 solid hours and he looks and sounds fresh as a daisy. I need a nap just from watching him!
BR
@Parrotlover77:
We have other, bigger problems headed down the pike by then. (Major energy crises in the next 5 years.)
BGinCHI
@General Stuck: I too hope that the entertainment factor ameliorates the wrecking of the country factor.
I’m also counting down till when that criminal who is the Guv of FL goes to jail for looting the state.
Remind me to act surprised when it happens.
kdaug
The point isn’t to hold up the legislation, the point is to – perchance – shame a couple of other senators over to your side.
That, and the clips for oppo campaign ads against the Scrooge’s.
Martin
@Sentient Puddle: Well, something new may happen here. The debate before the public for the last decade has always been between either some far-right douchebag and either a center-right or center-left President or someone representing that position. (Not claiming that Bush was center-right in his goals, but he gave the appearance that he was – Presidents just do that.)
For the first time in quite a while, it’s a debate before the public between the left and the center-left, with the right largely shut out. Any guesses what the discussion on the Sunday shows will be? Do you think Sanders is now more or less likely to be invited on one to take McCain’s seat?
Grandstanding usually gets rewarded in DC.
But this is what I was referring to the other day when I said that policy is influenced by politics. Sanders won’t have any direct effect on the outcome with this effort – he didn’t stop anything from happening or force anything to happen. But he sure as hell is changing the politics of the situation, and that will change the landscape and may make this easier to resolve, or harder to resolve. But it’s a change in the dynamic when it appeared that everything was at something of an impasse.
This is good. We should welcome this kind of tear through the status quo.
Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther
Also, not for nothing, but I’m a little worried for his bladder.
Sentient Puddle
@BR and @jl: Public opinion is already clear on what to do with the tax cuts. What you need to do is figure out a way to make Senate Republicans stop being gigantic asshats. And on that, I fall on the cynical side about people taking to Twitter doing anything.
The Dangerman
Haven’t watched a minute; is he getting food? water? piss breaks?
If no to all the above, I’m impressed; else, not impressed at 8 hours. Call me after about 12.
Parrotlover77
@duck-billed placelot: Social security hasn’t been “secure” (as in, completely isolated from other stuff) since Reagan (probably earlier). The government is just one big general fund and has been for a long time. Sure, Republicans will get all whiny about social security funding in years to come, but it won’t go anywhere. If anything, I agree that Social Security should stop being a special fake-untouchable fund. Why can’t it be subject to defecit borrowing like the rest of government. It’s more important than most of the shit we get in debt for.
Fuck that. We need to stop pretending that Social Security has some sort of special untouchable fund, when it doesn’t. Maybe the tax holiday (which is actually a fairly progressive maneuver) is the kick in the nuts we need to stop the social security funding theater.
Nellcote
@TooManyJens:
One could say the same about Prez Obama’s plan. 11D chess!
BGinCHI
@Emily L. Hauser/ellaesther: At his age he’d probably be thrilled if he could pee.
He should also talk about how delicious VT cheddar is made. This could get educational.
BR
@Sentient Puddle:
My hope is that more folks have become aware of it, and called their senators, etc. After all, we’re a nation that only pays attention to spectacles. So maybe this spectacle will draw attention to the issue.
KDP
@The Dangerman: I’ve been watching for the last 4 hours. No breaks, he is finally starting to repeat points I heard at noon, PT.
@BR: Called my senator, called the White House, even called Sanders VT office.
BR
@BGinCHI:
Seriously. Vermont cheddar is unbelievably good. So much better than any cheese I’ve had anywhere else. I’m sad that I no longer can get it cheap now that I’ve left New England.
Parrotlover77
@BR: You see crises. I see opportunity. You make a valid enough point that shit could get pretty hairy though. But at least I don’t think we’ll be worrying about tax rates like we are now.
Sentient Puddle
@Martin: If the show can manage that, then sure, it’ll be a good thing. As a crude barometer, let’s check tomorrow through Monday to see how prominently this story plays on the major mainstream media.
Parrotlover77
@BR: You see crises. I see opportunity. You make a valid enough point that shit could get pretty hairy though. But at least I don’t think we’ll be worrying about tax rates like we are now.
BR
From twitter:
Angry Black Lady
every tea party supporter should be forced to watch this. why the hell are they supporting the extension of tax cuts for the wealthy? because it’s the american dream, baby! they too might be able to move on up to that lear jet in the sky.
SectarianSofa
@BR:
OK, so you care, but what about the people who watch Fox news? I’m pretty blasé about the whole thing. It’s just preaching to the choir, or to those who want to hear.
RAM
Rich people got four tax cuts: Income tax cut on their income below $250,000; income tax cut on their income above $250,000; inheritance tax cut; and Social Security tax (on which they already pay a tiny fraction of what someone earning $40,000 a year pays) cut for the next year, and probably forever. The inheritance tax cut, too, is forever, and it’s looking very likely the income tax cuts will be as well.
Meanwhile, singles earning $20,000 a year and couples earning $40,000 a year got a tax INCREASE.
And to top it off nicely, the FICA withholding decrease is the proverbial camel’s nose in the tent, which may well lead to the destruction of Social Security.
Looks to me like extending unemployment benefits was done largely on the backs of the working poor which, for a Democratic President was, I must admit, a heckuva job of negotiating.
BR
@SectarianSofa:
Not really. I don’t think it’s the choir anymore. I think there are folks who are watching for the spectacle. And they might learn something in the process. He’s doing something that’s rarely done, and even if it’s symbolic, twitter is melting down talking about Sanders.
Parrotlover77
@Zifnab: Yes and no. The compromise has UI extension. So by fillibustering, he is, in fact, preventing it from passing. Sure, it’s wrapped in a turd sandwich, but never-the-less UI is part of the deal. I still maintain that the compromise is more good than bad.
I don’t think Sanders will block it to death, though. He knows what’s at stake. He’s just doing his full court hail mary endzone basket to home base at the buzzer with the bases loaded to see if he can eleven dimensional up some additional liberal rainbow unicorn ponies.
jo6pac
We need to send him a Thank You.
Nellcote
@Martin:
Well, at least McCain isn’t on again:
Meet the Press: Austan Goolsbee, Michael Bloomberg, Rep. Weiner, Fmr. Rep. Harold Ford Jr., Savannah Guthrie, Paul Gigot
Face the Nation: David Axelrod, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, Howard Dean
This Week: David Axelrod, Salam Fayyad, Tzipi Livni, Gordon Brown
Fox News Sunday: Reps. Ryan, Van Hollen, Justice Stephen Breyer
State of the Union: David Axelrod, Sen. Durbin, Reps. Cummings, McDermott, Dennis Blair
Mark S.
I noticed a new tag:
Where did that come from?
Zifnab
@Parrotlover77:
The SS Trust is full of Treasury Bills. So long as we keep making payments on our Treasuries, Social Security debt remains solvent.
The SS Tax is paid out of employee salaries. So long as we have employment in this country, SS has a revenue stream.
One reason SS has survived Nixon, Reagen, and two Bush Presidencies is because it was built strong.
Nothing is untouchable, but few programs are more untouchable than Social Security. One more reason why Democrats need to stand firm and resist the urge to cut away at the program or raise retirement limits or cut benefits. Social Security is only as strong as the 41st Senate Democrat.
kdaug
@Sentient Puddle: A fucking show that a more than a few people are paying attention to, as opposed to the normal audience for Senate floor speeches, saying what needs to be said.
Don’t matter much on the procedural impact. The message is out.
gleek
@RAM:
This 1000x times. Fuck this compromise.
@ Parrotlover77
You seem pretty attached your terrible argument, but it’s a logical fallacy so you should probably give it a rest.
sab
I’m sort of an oxymoron (a progressive tax accountant) and I’m furious with Sanders and other progressives. It’s obvious that Obama has had people crunch the numbers, and that nobody in Congress has. I hate deficits too, but if Obama’s compromise doesn’t go through, people at the median income (about 40,000) are going to get absolutely clobbered. The rich can afford to pay more taxes because they have more money. If you’re making 50,000 and this deal falls through, you’ll probably have to pay 2,000 or 3,000 additional federal taxes. That’s coming out of your food budget, or your vet bills if you haven’t already eaten your cat, or your dental bill (no check-up this year) or your ophthamologist (if you squint hard you won’t need a new eye-check and new glasses to do the job that you can’t do if you can’t see).
I don’t even know where to start on venting about rich Senators who think it’s more important to punish gazillionaires than to help the vast majority of the electorate that doesn’t make over 50,000. Let the rich bozos get their tax break for two years if that’s what is necessary to let everyone else get a breather in the middle of this no-longer-recession when we have 9.8% unemployment. The rich will pocket their money. Everyone else will spend it, which will benefit other non-millionaires. Obama has his eye on the economic ball. I wish other employed people did as well.
Parrotlover77
@Zifnab: I’m not so sure. I think it has survived, because Republicans know it would be political suicide to touch it. Despite that, it has been touched. It’s been borrowed against, ages have risen, payments have gone down, all in the name of solvency 50 years in the future when the general budget isn’t solvent now. It’s all theater! Social security exists and continues to exist because it’s popular, despite all the fearmongering and dissecting from the money party.
Zifnab
@Parrotlover77:
The 13-month extension is no extension at all. When we hit the debt ceiling, we’ll just gut some social program – food stamps, social security benefits, health care funds – to make up the difference.
Sanders refuses to rob Peter to pay Paul. He’s playing the long game.
Admiral_Komack
“Fuckin’ Congress! How does it work?”
Well, you take:
1 Congressperson or 1 Senator
Hook them up with:
1 page and/or intern
and make sure the cloakroom is empty…;-)
burnspbesq
Not so sure about the article, but the photo kills.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/12/what-marriage-equality-wont-do-ctd.html
Bullsmith
Bernie used to run, and win, as a bona-fide self-declared socialist. He dumped the label, but he kept his integrity.
TooManyJens
@Mark S.:
http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2010/11/left-eats-itself.html
Bullsmith
I’m in moderation for saying Sanders has integrity?
tworivers
The dude is kicking ass. Yeah, it’s probably political theater, but he’s presenting a pretty compelling and cogent case re; the shafting of the Middle Class and the destructive stranglehold that big business has over the country right now.
If that makes it way into the MSM at all, he’s accomplished a lot imo.
Parrotlover77
@Zifnab: That’s happening no matter how the tax debate turns out. If the >$200,000 tax cuts were magically taken out of the bill, I’m pretty sure Sanders would vote for it. I’m not sure it would pass with the conservadems, but maybe it would. Let’s say it would. Okay, now we sitll have a UI extension. So what happens now when we hit the debt ceiling, which we will regardless of what happens on the compromise bill? Same shit, different toilet paper.
Suck It Up!
The Sunday line up is practically all Democrats. for the past two years, it has mostly been Republicans. Now that the party has apparently turned against Obama (that’s the narrative anyway), the MSM wants to listen to Democrats. I’m hoping they use their appearances to trash Republicans the entire time, but they won’t get invited back if they don’t go along with the narrative.
Zifnab
@Parrotlover77:
Borrowed against with Treasuries. I consider that a safe asset. What’s more, the interest paid into Social Security has generally been helpful in keeping it solvent.
Greenspan and Reagen did raise taxes and cut benefits back in the early 80s. That’s the only time I can remember SS being hit, and by and large it was a small hit.
Parrotlover77
@Bullsmith: Nope. As much as I’m ragging on him in this comment thread, I am 100% convinced he is America’s Best Senator. But that’s because I have this crazy ability to not have to agree with politicians 100% of the time.
And if he did this sort of thing on defense spending bills? Shit, I would give him a handjob on the floor of the senate!
TooManyJens
@Bullsmith:
Did you happen to mention that he’s a soshulist, only spelled correctly? Because that’ll do it.
Peter J
@Alison:
The Stadium Pal.
David Sedaris doesn’t approve of it though…
BGinCHI
@BR: Great. Now the WI people are gonna freak out.
Relax, cheeseheads.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
@Suck It Up!:
Well good for them. Obviously most people here are buying their narrative, so their ratings should be good on Sunday.
Mission accomplished. See, all that’s necessary for MSM to be loved by progressives is for them to agree with progressives. We are nothing if not totally fair and driven by principles. Amirite?
Now me, I am a tough sell. I agree with most progressives on policy, but I also think progressives can’t politic their way out of a used rubber with a GPS and a cell phone and a roadmap and Serpa guide.
BR
@BGinCHI:
Sorry WI folks, VT cheddar is way better. And it’s better than OR cheddar. And pretty much any other cheddar.
Parrotlover77
@Zifnab: It doesn’t matter what mechanism they use — the point is that the politics of Social Security is not in the magic of its funding (something only an accountant can appreciate), but in the magic of the fact that old scooter riding white people like it and don’t want to see their benefits cut. If it was an unpopular program, the Money Party would have no trouble deconstructing the eleven dimensions of trust funds you seem to think protect it.
brendancalling
i think he’s the only honest man in washington dc.
god bless him, if there is a god.
AAA Bonds
Owns.
Matt Taibbi was pretty spooked when the guy made it into the Senate and began talking like a Senator; I think Sanders is doing his part to earn back some trust.
uila
If you find yourself annoyed or mystified by Sanders’s stunt, then you are fucking clueless. Last I knew, there is a perfectly legit middle class tax cut bill that passed the House. Have Senate Dems even acknowledged its existence? You’d think it would at least be good enough for a cloture vote to put GOPers on record as opposed. Yet we hear crickets. If I didn’t know better I’d say Senate Dems looove the millionaire tax cuts. There’s never been any intention to let them expire. Thats also why that stupid White House chart stacking up the bennies is such self-serving bullshit. It’s a codependent relationship, and Dems are the enablers. The “compromise” deserves all the scorn that it gets.
BGinCHI
@BR: If you’ve never been to the Tillamook factory, I’d withhold judgment. Pretty great stuff.
Come on WI! Put down your excellent craft beers and give BR hell! No, stop flipping around, the Packers don’t play on Fridays.
MikeMc
I’ve been out all afternoon. What’s Saunders filibustering?
Ozymandias, King of Ants
Question: How do they keep quorum? That’s needed, isn’t it? And given that (a) Sanders is an independent, and (b) Sanders caucuses with the Democrats, is he considered a Democrat or a party of one for the purposes of the Senate rules?
BR
@BGinCHI:
I actually was eating some Tillamook earlier today. Still got nothing on VT cheddar. (And I’m not even from VT.)
AAA Bonds
@MikeMc:
Since floor debate doesn’t begin until Monday, the story as I understand it is that he’s not technically filibustering anything.
BGinCHI
Click over to HuffPo and read the headline and then what it says under Sanders’ picture.
You will want to murder the lot of them.
JasonF
@The Dangerman:
To the contrary, this is exactly why I don’t want “real filibusters” from the Republicans. Sen. Sanders is getting a fair amount of coverage as he’s explaining why tax breaks for millionaires are bad policy, and that’s awesome. But the last thing I want is for Jim DeMint or whoever to get up on the Senate Floor and spout Cato Institute talking points onto CNN for hour after hour after hour. The liberals in the Senate are bad enough at pushing back on right-wing arguments — there’s no need to give the right an open mic and guaranteed news coverage.
mr. whipple
Last weekend. Filibustered.
BGinCHI
@BR: Syrup: maple or cane?
Now we’re in the weeds.
uila
@BR: With all due respect to the Senator, VT cheddar is average at best. WI pumps out the most consistent quality cheddar, but the best of the best comes from NY. Everyone knows that!
Martin
@RAM:
A little simplistic. The proposal reduces the maximum deduction to 28% so AGI will increase for anyone taking large numbers of deductions. They may not pay a higher rate, but they have to pay that rate on more income – theoretically as much as 7% more. Since the deductions are the best dodge that the wealthy have, this is not insignificant.
AAA Bonds
@BGinCHI:
He knows how to play the media that matter to his supporters. But I agree, no one should believe anything Arianna Huffington says or writes.
scav
@Admiral_Komack:
or not even necessarily that, if it’s a airport bathroom.
BR
@BGinCHI:
Maple.
BGinCHI
@JasonF: Seriously? You think he could even do it? I doubt it.
Plus, unless Fox is showing it the slackjaws won’t tune in for that kind of thing. Unless he did it from Dale Jr’s 88 car.
Odie Hugh Manatee
I’m fairly conflicted about this whole mess. While I don’t like to see more people suffer, and we have a shitload of people suffering right now, I am sick and tired of the rich walking away with the lions share of every fucking thing and our pols helping them get it while getting their cut of the share. A hell of a lot of those out there suffering right now are many of the same people who voted in the assholes who made this mess what it is.
Maybe it’s time for the chickens to come home to roost, time for them to pay the piper. I have a feeling that all we are doing with this bill is putting a band aid over a deep wound that will be fatal if not properly treated.
If it passes, it passes. It will delay suffering a bit longer for some, offer no relief for others, make some feel a little bit better and make a few ecstatic. If it doesn’t pass, then that’s good too I guess.
I’m just sick and tired of being held hostage by the rich.
FormerSwingVoter
@duck-billed placelot:
Or we could use the opportunity to raise the cap on payroll tax while keeping the reduction permanent. Strangely enough, increasing the cap from $108,000 to $250,000 would raise almost exactly enough money to permanently lower the payroll tax by two percent. And then we can whip out all those scary timelines showing how much quicker Social Security will start running a defecit without a change in taxes.
“Obama wants the rich to pay their fair share for Social Security, America’s most successful public program. Republicans want to destroy it. Who are you siding with?”
TheMightyTrowel
@uila: I’m going to have to contradict all of you and say that, while I grew up eating VT cheddar in my small New England home town, actual Cheddar from Cheddar, Somerset is far and away the best cheddar.
MikeMc
@AAA Bonds: Is he going to keep going until Monday?!
Loneoak
Oh no, he’s concluding just after I started streaming.
Trakker
I’m in awe of this gutsy fighter. I will write his name in for President in 2012. Can we clone him?? Go Bernie!
Looks like he’s about to finish up.
Jules
@uila:
Where have you been?
They not only acknowledged it they were unable to even get it passed a filibuster vote on Saturday…which is when Obama stepped in and made a deal.
Martin
@uila: Surely the largest dairy state (California) should show up in that analysis.
magurakurin
My problem with this is that it will only further muddy the water concerning the misuse of the filibuster. Even people at places like this think he is filibustering the bill. He’s not. He’s not obstructing the vote, and he is going to vote for cloture if Republicans eventually do filibuster the bill. But if they do(and Demint says he will) no one will dare call it a filibuster. The latest cloture vote on the Republican filibuster of DADT was described by Greg Sargent as the “bill not passing by a 57 to 40 vote.” But that isn’t what happened. What happened was a cloture vote to end the Republican filibuster of the bill failed at that number. There never was a vote on the bill because….IT WAS FILIBUSTERED. But no one will say it.
And here is Politico’s further lying on the whole issue
Key phrase of bullshit in there, “it’s rarely implemented.”
WRONG.
It’s implemented all the fucking time. There are hundreds, yes hundreds of House bills that never saw the light of day in the Senate because they were filibustered. And because the hope of a successful cloture vote was so dim, the Senate didn’t even bother to try and end the filibuster. The majority just agrees to assume they will lose the cloture vote and move on.
I love Bernie Sanders, but he is muddying the water here. The filibuster is the key problem in the Senate. And this fake, albeit interesting, filibuster today only confuses things more. Witness how many comments about “this is how it should be done,” and “old school,” but that is all crap.
THE REPUBLICANS FILIBUSTER ALL THE TIME. The real way, the way it has always been. Mr Smith goes to Washington is a movie. See the most recent vote on DADT for the reality.
mr. whipple
Bernie stops in time for Mathews, Olberman and Rachel’s shows.
BGinCHI
@uila: Now we’re getting it. Come on, cheese people, stand up for yourselves!
Cliff
Wait!! What?! its over?
not one democrat in support. I’m pissed.
BGinCHI
@BR: I await some southerners to rebut that. My GA friends love their cane syrup.
NobodySpecial
@Rugosa: Failure for who? The rich and their enablers? They’ve made out like bandits.
You know, for all the boohooism lavished on the poor over this bill, in large part they’re going to see a tax increase out of this thing. Plus don’t forget in 13 months, they’re going to not fund UI again without some other disgusting attachment to it, and the poor will get shafted again in some more predictable way.
FlipYrWhig
@duck-billed placelot:
Progressives used to love the payroll tax holiday. Especially Robert Reich. Yes, he wants to protect funding by tinkering with the cap, so it’s not the same as this proposal as I understand it.
But the way people are reacting to the phrase “payroll tax holiday” and calling it a Republican idea… well, it wasn’t a Republican idea last year, or even this past summer.
General Stuck
Once democrats in congress leave the high ground and crawl down into the pits of hell with the wingers, then I just hope we don’t hear any knashing of teeth at the ugly, and shaky puddings from liberals that no adults are minding the class room.
It is coming to a theater near you, and fairly soon. One side of the knife fight always gets to pick the ROE and level of political warfare, if they want to bad enough. Once the gloves come completely off, the dems, you won’t recognize them. Bernie is just introducing the next phase of our two plus century cold civil war. I know, I know, dems are cowards and Obama is weak tea. The wingnuts are serious this time, and dems will turn when there is no more wall left to back up against. Betcha!
Martin
@FormerSwingVoter: Actually, they need to raise the cap to $250K and keep the rate the same to keep Medicare afloat for probably the next 5-10 years until ACA can do its thing for costs.
AAA Bonds
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
What I am wondering is: at what point did it become universally immoral to refuse to play ball, at the expense of good things, in order to win better things in the near future?
We can have a moral debate about this, but not every principled refusal to compromise on a bill is the same as, say, turning over the White House to Bush in 2000.
This is a widely-used political tactic that, sometimes, effectively gives up very-short-term gains for much larger gains both in the short term and long term.
It is usually risky, and one may consider it cynical, or even heartless, but it’s not necessarily wrong – and it goes without saying that it’s not always unwise.
People just tend to dismiss it out of hand among Democrats nowadays, just like expanded executive power. Neither of these things is necessarily illiberal, and it may be to the greater benefit of the unemployed that this deal does not go through.
This debate needs to happen, not just get shut down.
Todd
@Trakker: If you really want to support him and you agree with the theme of his speech you should make the effort to call your Senators. I know it’s after hours now but I managed to call and leave a message (I think) on my two Senators’ office phones. I will definitely make the effort on Monday to call in as well.
MikeMc
Why did he do it?
BGinCHI
@TheMightyTrowel: Good cider from Somerset too. Goes great with cheese.
Great, now I’m starving. This blog needs a food cart.
Observer
@FormerSwingVoter:
Well sure.
Someone could make a TV ad that says that. But they should probably ask Obama who he’d be siding with first….
Alison
Much applause.
That was a pretty cool fucking thing to see.
Jules
Just a reminder folks the House sent a middle class tax cut bill to the Senate.
The Senate voted on Saturday…they could not even get it passed a cloture vote.
Same thing for a bill that raised the limit to one million.
DADT was treated the same way.
THIS is why Obama made a deal…..
uila
@Jules: I’d appreciate next time if you wouldn’t let your facts get in the way of my indignation! Thanks for the correction…
Suffern ACE
@BGinCHI: That, dear sir, is the work of the professional left. It really is all about them.
BGinCHI
@magurakurin: You could have just said Politico Fucking Sucks and spared us the “Bernie is wrecking everything” concern trolling.
Martin
@JasonF: I don’t think you realize just how stupid these guys look when they don’t have the Fox anchors there to prop them up and keep them on message. Let DeMint ramble for 4 hours on national TV. He’ll look like he’s off his meds after about 3 minutes.
Having an unfiltered debate is something the Dems should never, ever be afraid of.
BR
@Alison:
Agreed. I haven’t watched a compelling political speech like that since the Obama of 2008.
I’m ashamed to admit I watched Sanders for a couple of hours today…
AAA Bonds
@MikeMc:
My guess is that he’s specifically NOT filibustering the deal, but IS doing something that major media outlets simply can’t ignore, to carry the progressive message in detail and total to America as a story unto itself (rather than a story about Obama, or about the lame duck Congress, or the Republicans).
Trakker
@Todd:
Todd, I called them yesterday, but I’ll be sure to call Bernie’s office and thank him (if I can get through!)
BGinCHI
Plaudits to Bernie!
Let’s at least acknowledge some potential consciousness-raising, and a bit of shaming for his colleagues. Even if this thing passes and it does some, good, the big fights are still down the road.
Backbone needed.
Slapping a DeMint or McConnell would really help. Even if it’s just one of those gentlemenly slaps.
Ozymandias, King of Ants
@AAA Bonds: And just in time to capture the weekend news cycle. Smart.
General Stuck
@Jules:
Obama is in a no win situation here, either way he breaks a campaign promise. He chose to honor the one to those who mostly voted for him, the middle class, and poor. It is imo, likely not the best choice for the country long term, and he has to eat his long standing promise to make the rich ante up more. It is but one battle, of many more to come with the plutocrats, and I have never been prouder of the dude for taking his lumps and opting to put the less fortunate first. The deal also keeps a lot of cash in the economy right now that is needed to help it recover. The rich will still be rich, and Obama retains complete control over these tax cuts long term, whether he wins reelection, or not.
Alison
@BR: Why ashamed? Unless you mean, like…instead of working. Which hey, same here – of course where I work, half my coworkers were watching too. Yay for working in the journalism industry :P
maus
@jl:
Yeah, but how are we supposed to make the media care?
MikeMc
@AAA Bonds: Thanks for your help! How do you think the news outlets will cover it? How will they, i don’t know, condense it down?
WyldPirate
@FlipYrWhig:
Flip, Your argument would have merit if we had a functional Democratic Party and President that wasn’t going to lose the Senate in 2012 (not like they have it now).
This “holiday” will become permanent. They won’t get it back to previous levels That weakens SS funding in the long-term and lends credence to the Rethug argument that benefits need to be cut further–or the program eliminated.
I’ve got to say that it is a goddamned shame to see that Obama is putting up more of a fight against his own party than he did against his opposition.
I mean seriously, he pulls in Clinton to come in and speak as to what a goddamned good deal this is? Fiirst, that’s fucking lunacy, because it’s just like borrowing $1500 per capita per year from the Chinese and others with a very large junk of it going to the uber-wealthy.
Why the fuck couldn’t Obama get their shit together and show enough intestinal fortitude to make the argument against this shit before the election. I’ll answer my own question–they are cowards and fuck-ups.
edited to correct my math and some punctuation/grammar
cyntax
Yep, nice to see someone standing up for progressive values and giving the bobbleheads something real to talk about.
Omnes Omnibus
@BGinCHI: Look, BR is simply so wrong that it is not worth the effort. Plus, BR is limiting the talk to cheddar; Wisconsin produces a wide variety of excellent cheeses.
Nellcote
@Martin:
Aside from mac&cheese, who needs cheddar?
Cowgirl Creamery FTW!
scav
@MikeMc: NYT’s is actually not too bad: Sanders Rails Against Tax Bill — For Hours and Hours
Odie Hugh Manatee
@AAA Bonds:
I’m just sick and tired of seeing people just limping along, making it from day to day. I grew up poor, dirt poor, so I know what it’s like to be on food stamps and fighting to find a good job to fees your family. I watched my Mom do it with seven kids her ex left her with. I know how depressing it is to see others who are doing just a little better for themselves and thus not caring about those less fortunate, even though they are one accident from being in the exact same position.
People are happy to live in the little worlds they have created it but too many resent any encroachment of reality into it. When shit stops working their worlds fall apart, bringing reality to them hard and fast. I think more of these ‘little worlds’ need to be shattered with a dose of reality to get these people to wake up and stop sleepwalking through life.
tworivers
@maus:
I went to the ABCNews website towards the end of Sanders’ speech and there wasn’t any mention of Sanders at all on their page. It’s as if it didn’t happen. F#ckers.
So then I sent them a message and asked about their editorial decision-making. I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for a reply
cyntax
@WyldPirate:
Yeah, did anyone take the opportunity to ask him WTF he was thinking with that repeal of Glass-Steagall?
SectarianSofa
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
If change was dependent on this one bill, I’d say stick for principle. But it is going to take a whole lot more to free us from rule by the rich. Anyway, what’s the opposite of plutarchy?
j
@Emerald:
Not at all. McConnell and John Boner were on the committees that wrote the expiration date into law. They both voted “Yea” for it and Bush signed it into LAW.
So, as of January 1, 2011 the tax increase becomes known as the “McConnell/Boner TAX INCREASE of 2011”.
Having the Multi-Millionaire,Media actually do their jobs and call it that…
Well. we all know how that will work out.
scav
@Nellcote: you’ve clearly never had a real cheddar.
AAA Bonds
That Bill Clinton rubbish was for the birds, too.
Points, strategy-wise, for the attempt to use a media-beloved, highly popular figure to respond to Sanders before the weekend was out. I’m guessing that everybody in Washington had some inkling of what Sanders was going to do today, and of who was going to help him out.
But I agree with Alex Pareene – the current Democratic President leaving the White House briefing room to the last Democratic President, as he makes the case for the bill alone, comes across as supremely weird. I know a lot of people like Clinton; I don’t, but I get it. I know it makes sense to deliver him as the second punch in a one-two. But not like that, it doesn’t, unless they’re writing off Obama as a public figure a la Dick Cheney, which makes little sense.
If they needed to hijack the media, there had to be a way to do it that didn’t look like a United Russia rally with Clinton in the role of Putin.
BGinCHI
@Omnes Omnibus: You are preaching to the cheese-eating choir.
MikeMc
@scav: I’m wondering if they’ll cover him fairly, or make him look like an unstable old man. You know what I mean? They treat Obama like shit because they think he’s a socialist. How will they cover an actual socialist?
Caren
No, Obama made the deal behind closed doors BEFORE the votes. The Republicans felt totally safe blocking it knowing that the “compromise” was coming.
WyldPirate
@cyntax:
I hope historians hang this all around Clinton’s neck. It was the most damaging thing he did to the country along with NAFTA.
This is one of the biggest reasons that I was furious that Obama brought that sorry cocksucker Larry Summers onto his economic team. Summers was a disaster then and he is now and isn’t worth the powder it would take to blow his arrogant ass to hell
Summer’s gems on Glass-Steagall and Enron
SectarianSofa
@BGinCHI:
Pretty sure he’s getting some vermont industry money to come in here and say stuff like that. It’s the only way it makes sense.
AAA Bonds
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
To me, it seems like we’re not properly debating whether this deal is overall a good thing for the unemployed. The White House talks asserts that extending benefits is a good idea for economic recovery (undoubtedly true); the left points out broken promises on taxing the rich (which are real and were broken).
However, the White House is also stating that it’s compromising not based on the math for the unemployed (how could it be?) but because the Republicans are obstinate that the tax cuts remain.
Assuming the White House statement is more true than tactical (and that’s not a given), it seems to follow that extending unemployment benefits while extending the tax cuts MIGHT POSSIBLY be worse for the unemployed, and the economy, than a lull in benefits and an increase in taxes.
BGinCHI
@SectarianSofa: We really need to be careful or Big Cheese is going to take over everything.
They already have ballgame nachos. What’s next?
jinxtigr
From the Times-
YES! Scorn for lazy weak republican fat cats :) Make them look like the wankers they are!
Mnemosyne
@BGinCHI:
But I still wish someone in Congress had done this BEFORE the midterm, when it actually might have saved a few Democratic seats. I’m still pissed off that Barbara Boxer was one of the chickens.
And if a crazy astronaut driving to kill her boyfriend was able to figure out how to put on an adult diaper, Bernie probably did, too.
gizmo
Bravo, Bernie! He’s showing our putz of a President that sometimes you have to dig in and fight. Let’s force Mitch McConnell and his band of cadavers to explain why tax cuts for the richest 1% are necessary.
WyldPirate
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Nicely said and this shit has and is happening as we speak.
There are millions of people who lost the savings in the only asset that they really had–their homes. There are millions of people who have lost jobs that will never recover or never have a job as good as the one they lost again. There are millions of young college grads that are going to be yoked with obscene amounts of debt and don’t have the income or jobs to even pay it off.
There have been plenty of “realities” that have been shattered, OHM. But they are the wrong ones. It’s like a war, the poorest of the citizenry in a war zone who are unable to flee always get hurt the worst.
General Stuck
@Mnemosyne:
Bet I know where he got it/
Odie Hugh Manatee
@AAA Bonds:
My gut says that this bill is bad for us and shouldn’t be passed. My heart says pass it to alleviate some of the suffering out there, however temporarily.
Right now my gut is winning the argument.
However, if the bill passes the House and Senate, I will not be angry with Obama if he signs it. He would be in a suck situation where if he vetoed it he would get the blame when everything goes to shit.
It’s not his fault, it’s the shitty congress we voted in place and the Republicans.
me
David Brooks likes the deal. Who would’ve guessed?
MikeMc
@AAA Bonds: Actually it’s pretty smart. You have the last 2 term democratic president since FDR endorse your plan. That shit was planned. Plus, Clinton is no close ally of progressives. Makes Obama look in the middle. It was for moderates.
eemom
I haven’t read ALL the comments, but for anybody who is dissin’ on Bernie Sanders — what the FUCK, people?
I get that you think the deal ought to pass…….but how can you not respect what this man is doing?
Exactly what self-serving ulterior motive do you attribute to him?
Look, just because we’re jaded, cynical, beaten-to-the-ground realists, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get on our feet and applaud when SOMEONE behind a Washington podium actually speaks truth to power, for fucking once.
BGinCHI
@Mnemosyne: Yes, absolutely. That would have put the fight and the facts on some front pages.
Better leadership, please.
eemom
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I’m with your gut.
AAA Bonds
@MikeMc:
I specifically addressed all of that in my comment. It’s still a bad way to do it.
Suck It Up!
Have we all been living in the same country for the past 2 years? Why does anyone think this will make it to a wider audience? the people watching this are people who are already paying attention. Even if it makes it on cnn or msnbc it is still preaching to the choir. GAH!! You can appreciate what he’s doing, but don’t think for a second that this is going to start anything. I’d like to be proven wrong, but I’m not.
and that bill from cbc? spare me.
MikeMc
@gizmo: Then what? This shit is weak. If Saunders had any balls he’d be doing this on Monday…not Friday.
Nellcote
@AAA Bonds:
But dealing with the unemployed involves more than just extending UI benefits. There are also extensions of credits from the StimBill in the plan.
FlipYrWhig
@AAA Bonds:
Seems like a low threshold for what constitutes “supremely weird.” Who’s saying it’s to counteract Sanders, anyway? Why wouldn’t it be part of a press to show that the compromise is something Democrats should get behind? All hands on deck and all that.
BGinCHI
@Suck It Up!: Cynicism is free, and worth what you paid for it.
Just congratulate Bernie and enjoy it right now. It’s not a policy position.
Comrade Luke
@eemom:
Totally agree.
People constantly complain about how Republicans win on messaging, and here we have a guy who went on the floor of the Senate and spent the entire day to set the record straight, and the reaction here is “meh”.
This got noticed by a lot of people, many of whom took the time to listen to what he was saying. The fact that those people gained a little knowledge about what’s actually going on sure sounds like a benefit to me.
Dennis SGMM
The compromise reminds of those scenes in some movies where the hostage-taker tells the hero cop; “Gimme your gun or the hostage gets it.” In this case, the cops hands over his gun and then perp then shoots him and the hostage.
Nellcote
@scav:
If VermontCheddar is “real” cheddar I have it all the time at work. Maybe I’m just bored with it.
TooManyJens
@JasonF:
They already have that. Our illustrious media cover every word Sarah Palin farts onto Facebook. At least we can make them work for their obstruction, and make it more obvious.
Rugosa
@NobodySpecial:
The argument I hear most often is that if the rich (business owners) are allowed to keep more of their money they will expand their businesses and hire more workers. This has been a failure — the rich have got to keep more of their money but that does not seem to have created more jobs. Most of the people I know who are lucky enough not to have been laid off are expected to do more work in the same number of hours. And these days, who’s going to complain?
Decreased tax rates for wealthy people do NOT result in more jobs.
MikeMc
@AAA Bonds: Sorry, AAA Bonds. I’ve been drinking wine…out of a box! Shits gettin’ fuzzy!
AAA Bonds
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m saying it’s to counteract Sanders, if you’re asking who’s saying that, and obviously having former President Clinton speak in favor of the bill isn’t supremely weird. It’s posting him alone in the WH briefing room that’s weird. It’s a captive audience, for sure, but it challenges Obama’s stature.
BGinCHI
@MikeMc: Seriously??
Jesus.
AAA Bonds
@Nellcote:
Agreed. The point still stands.
Suck It Up!
Should that be your head says the bill is bad?
I’m going with my heart.
RoonieRoo
Okay, Bernie’s speech was awesome. But what is really cheesing me off right now is the media outlets reporting it are calling it a Filibuster.
It was NOT a filibuster. Cripes it was a 8.5 hour rant, a great rant, but just a rant.
It did not prevent a vote on the bill he is ranting about. It’s not a filibuster.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m gonna put petty personality conflicts aside and emphatically endorse eemom’s comment and Luke’s follow up comment here.
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM:
Perhaps. Not compromising would remind me of those scenes in some movies where the hostage-taker isn’t really a hostage-taker, he’s just a heavily-armed maniac who wants to kill people.
FlipYrWhig
I hope the coverage of the Sanders speech is something like “Sanders rails against economic injustice” rather than “Disheveled Senator has big mouth.” When Weiner spoke out, all the coverage was of his tone, none of it about the bill or the ideas behind the bill.
SectarianSofa
@Comrade Luke:
But this *isn’t* a win on messaging. Repubs get their message on the Sunday shows, evening news, CNN, and on their own channel. That’s messaging. As wonderful as Sander’s sentiment is, it isn’t a win on messaging. This isn’t a college debate. The person with the best points doesn’t automatically win. In fact, usually doesn’t win. Haven’t we learned that about the GOP and messaging since at least Reagan?
Mnemosyne
@WyldPirate:
Because Obama didn’t realize how deeply invested the Democrats in the Senate are in their desire to NOT be seen as doing the president’s bidding. He treated them like 5-year-olds and, hey, look, suddenly Sanders and Landrieu (!) are uniting to oppose Obama’s plan.
It’s stupid as hell, but if playing the opposite game with the Democrats instead of the Republicans makes them get off their asses and do their fucking jobs, then I’m all for it.
Damn, that was a lot to type on an iTouch.
freelancer
Comrade Luke:
Not true.
I’ve been losing my shit cheering him on all day. And I’m not alone.
Someone on twitter wrote: “Mr. President, please go listen to Bernie Sanders. He sounds like you used to.”
Damn straight.
gizmo
Sanders Washington phone line is completely tied up and the mailbox is full. He’s getting flooded with support.
stuckinred
Who the fuck keeps swiping my posts???
uila
@RoonieRoo: RE: “cheesing me off” – well done!
If there’s one thing we can all agree on, it’s that the world’s best “cheddy” is brat to us from the Farms of Hickory.
JasonF
@TooManyJens:
Sen. Sanders is out there every day pounding the drum for a more equitable tax system. Nobody paid him a damned bit of attention until he did it from the floor of the Senate. That’s because, notwithstanding the best efforts of our illustrious Senators, it’s still an important and prestigious place. Sure, the GOP will spout the same Cato bullshit they spout when they visit with David Gregory, but it will be Cato bullshit being SPOKEN FROM THE FLOOR OF THE SENATE, and that will give it an importance it doesn’t deserve. What’s the point of giving Jim DeMint or Tom Coburn or whoever this forum just so it can end in yet another 57-43 vote on cloture?
JimK
@SectarianSofa: You are a “Delight”.
AAA Bonds
@SectarianSofa:
I think it’s indisputable that Sanders shoved his way into the media’s clubhouse today, making the progressive position into a story in and of itself.
And, more importantly, attaching a single name and face to it, which the media has had a suspiciously hard time doing (“left-wing critics” in a media story usually quickly becomes one blogger and, if we’re lucky, a single sentence from a progressive Congressperson).
Does this mean it’s a win in any substantive way? No, we won’t know that until later. Nevertheless, it is now a story, and Sanders is personally responsible, using tactics that the Senate was designed to reward. Kudos to him.
SectarianSofa
@freelancer:
I’m sick with something, so I’m not in a cheering mood. So what’s the upshot of an awesome speech? Isn’t this catnip for some of our crowd, just like Rush limbaugh’s show is for his? Does Bernie get a multimillion dollar show on Clear Channel with lots of political clout now?
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
I think Sanders ought to be ashamed of himself [smirk] for turning the serious business of government generally [snort] and the world’s greatest deliberative body specifically [giggle] into a circus sideshow [stifled laugh]. It’s stunts like this [stifled guffaw] that make me lose my faith in government [can’t hold out much longer]. What kind of example does this set [sweet jesus…] for young people who may be pondering [scene from Chuckles the Clown’s funeral] a life of public service?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA………………….
Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Buddha, and Mohammed! I almost got through it! Go, Bernie go!
WyldPirate
@Mnemosyne:
this is what has made me so made me so furious at not only the Democrats but Obama. I particularly hold Obama responsible–he has the biggest megaphone in the country,
As I type this, I am listening to Sanders outline one of the “results” of Obama’s saving the auto industry–their new two-teired wage system at GM. Old workers starting at $28/hour and the new ones making $14/hr. This was negotiated by a gun held to the head of the UAW. That shit did not happen to the banks., They came out completely whole and aere richer and larger than ever.
Now tell me that Obama is really looking out for the “little guy”.
SectarianSofa
@AAA Bonds:
Well, as someone said, if all the Democrats had such backbone, that would be great. I’ll leave aside my other cynicism, since I’m clearly being Debbie Downer.
scav
@Nellcote: Could be. I’ve recently had some of the stuff aged in cloth when it’s all crumbly and can no longer distinguish the usual orange bricks from Velveeta.
SectarianSofa
@JimK:
Er, Ok. And you’re a ‘Cabbage.’ Did I miss something?
Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
Same difference. Any deal made with the Republicans has the life expectancy of a sandcastle. Thirty days into the new Congress they are perfectly capable of deciding that the deal will increase the deficit too much so S-CHIP, or the Department of Education, or some other damned thing will have to go lest they revisit the UI extension.
This deal also fails to help the 1.4 million Americans who are in Tier 5 and are now headed for cardboard condos.
Mnemosyne
@JasonF:
I know someone already said this, but I would pay cash money if DeMint or Coburn or another of the Repubs got their panties in a twist over the attention that Sanders is getting and tried to do the same thing. It would be comedy gold!
SectarianSofa
@WyldPirate:
Whatever. I’m an Obot, I guess, in that I’m more interested in small pragmatic victories than blaming the white house for not being omnipotent, omniscient, and infallible.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Suck It Up!:
My head is making my gut feel that way. :)
SectarianSofa
@Dennis SGMM:
Yes, but when the GOP does something, the media reports it. So if they abolish social security, it will actually penetrate the cloud-covered consciousness of public awareness at some point.
I also thought that was a positive from triangulation, if done well — MSM loves ‘bipartisan compromise,’ so when one party bilaterally screws something that had had some coverage and buzz, people might actually notice and hold them accountable. (Oh, now I’m the Pollyanna?)
SectarianSofa
@Mnemosyne:
Are there really any Republicans who could do something similar? Aside from kooks like Ron Paul, I doubt many of them even believe what they’re selling.
Mnemosyne
@WyldPirate:
Sorry, I’m still not getting why Congress’s cowardice is specifically Obama’s fault and not, you know, the fault of the people who actually did it. It’s weird how you constantly make excuses for Congress and absolve them of all responsibility for their actions. And, no, “Argle-blargle leadership bully pulpit” is not an explanation.
Why is the Senate not responsible for fuckups in the Senate?
Mark S.
@TooManyJens:
Thanks! I need to pay better attention; who knows what will be on the exam?
Dennis SGMM
@SectarianSofa:
Like they did for 2000-2008?
Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom
@andynotadam:
My thoughts exactly. Ignore them, and they will, literally go away.
Cain
@SectarianSofa:
Sorry, but when any Democrat gets up and speaks truth to power in the Senate, that is a reason to cheer. All of us are energized by someone who is willing to do that. So yeah, at least he’s messaging us and if it happens that the buzz he creates allows people who are independent to be curious on what he says then that is awesome.
Remember, the talk shows all are wired for Republicans. The more democrats that make themselves noticed the better it is. We can’t all just rely on Obama to do it.
Go Bernie!
cain
Cain
@Cain:
Oh yeah, fuck you Huffington Post. Ariana is as big a grifter as Sarah Palin. She had a link with a video showing Bernie Sanders reading from her book. Talking about being self serving.
cain
Dennis SGMM
@Cain:
I think that Sanders will be ostracized by his Democratic colleagues for failing to act like a battered spouse.
Mnemosyne
@SectarianSofa:
The flailing about as they tried to imitate Sanders and failed miserably is what would make it comedy gold.
Who knows, maybe that’s Sanders’ plan. Obama’s not the only one smart enough to play 11D chess.
DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective
@freelancer:
Yeah he sounds like Obama used to, back when Obama probably and foolishly believed that congress could get its act together if the Bushes and their toadies were gone. Obama was wrong, congress choked.
Only congress can pass a tax bill. Bernie is congress. So, work with your buds to get the bill you want. That’s what you are being paid for, isn’t it?
Heh. I think we know how that turns out.
If America wants a better congress, it needs to elect one. Electing a pile of shit and expecting an action hero to put on a cape and come along and save the country is just magical thinking.
SectarianSofa
@Cain:
Well, not to be a dick, but a reason to cheer is still not a win on messaging. Not saying it’s not good, but the whole point of Congress is to get things done. Talk shows *are* wired for republicans. Which is why the bar for effective messaging is so much higher for Democrats. That said, I’m happy with the progressive case being made — I hope it does get out there.
Mnemosyne
@Dennis SGMM:
Not if Landrieu is on his side, and I haven’t seen any signs that she isn’t.
Stupid iTouch battery is giving out.
Todd
@Trakker: Good on you.
Cain
@SectarianSofa:
I guess my point is that we should encourage anybody who gets up in front of congress and starts smacking people around. Grow a spine, put yourself out there and do it.
At least Bernie did that.. and you can’t fault that. Hopefully it will get other Democratic Senators to do something similar. It made me happy.. and it’s been a pretty shitty year for us.
cain
Cain
@Dennis SGMM:
That wouldn’t surprise me. We are democrats after all. Hell some people here were unhappy.. sheesh. No wonder we can’t do anything..someone is always pissed off.
cain
SectarianSofa
@Cain:
yep. was really hoping that the economy would improve before the mid-terms.
WyldPirate
@Mnemosyne:
Why do I hold Obama more responsible?
He is the head of the Democratic Party. This tax initiative was one of the cornerstones of his campaign and was to help finance HCR. His caving on this destroys his credibility to an extent. I think that he should have put serious pressure on the Senate members–his own and the Rethugs– that didn’t have the courage to vote last weekend on the tax cut extensions. It was a huge political miscalculation. Obama didn’t take advantage of his megaphone when it was available. He and the Dems did not run on the issue of economic disparity caused in part by this and the budgetary problems which were caused by the tax breaks. They had a cudgel that they did not use.
I could go on. You want more reasons?
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM:
Well, there are probably 30-35 progressive-ish Democrats in the Senate who are enjoying the spectacle — but the problem remains that there aren’t enough of them to actually implement the policies they favor.
FlipYrWhig
@WyldPirate:
What form would that “serious pressure” take?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne:
I should prolly go and update the “best thing that ever happened to me” thread.
FlipYrWhig
@WyldPirate:
They begged him not to. Imagine what the headlines would be if Obama extracted a vote on tax cuts before the election, Democrats lost the vote, Republicans then trotted out commercials savaging Democrats for voting to raise taxes by $700B (or whatever), and then Boxer, Murray, Bennet, and Reid all lost. That’s what they–the candidates themselves–feared could happen, because they wouldn’t be anywhere close to 60, because people like Kent Conrad were saying they supported extending _all_ the tax cuts.
I know you seized upon the portion of that NYT article that discussed the vicious cycle of Obama and the Senate deferring to one another, but the problem has to do with different blocs in the Senate being at odds with one another: progressives who weren’t up for reelection, center-righties who weren’t, and those who were up for reelection and worried about the results. (I feel like I saw a story that said even Feingold didn’t want to have that vote, but I don’t have a link.)
Personally, I feel like if you’re the president and power players in the Senate beg you to do them a favor, you should probably lean towards doing it.
agrippa
I agree with Dickspudcouchpotatodetective (256)
It is their job and Congress did choke. Basically from Jan 2009. Obama was wrong, if he thought that Congress would get it done.
They need to get their act together.
FeFiFo
Bernie had the top two trending tags on Twitter today. Phone lines tied up all day. Senate live stream crashed from the traffic. I don’t want to hear anyone say that his message wasn’t getting out there. And his message desperately needed to be said, out loud, coherent, fact-filled and absolutely filled to the brim with Truth.
Fuck the rich. Bernie brought class war to the Senate floor, and made it ok to finally mention in polite company. He’s got the top 2%’s number and called it out in front of God and Country. Bernie 2012 – its time for a REAL socialist in the White House.
SectarianSofa
@Dennis SGMM:
Yes, the people might actually notice and hold them accountable. What, no credit for my weasel words? ‘Might’ just doesn’t carry the non-weight it used to.
Dennis SGMM
@SectarianSofa:
No worries. I’m just convinced that the attention span of the American electorate combined with the media’s love for the Republicans means that the R’s will never be held accountable for anything.
John S.
In response to why CONGRESS didn’t bring up a vote, you blame the PRESIDENT?! There are only two people to blame, and neither is Obama. One is Harry Reid, the other is Nancy Pelosi. When you start with a conclusion (Obama sucks) and work your way backwards from there to fit reality to your pre-conceived notion, you come off as a putz.
Putz.
AAA Bonds
@agrippa:
How would that have worked, getting their act together? What should the Democratic leadership have done that the White House could not?
AAA Bonds
@John S.:
Why are they to blame? What should they have done to the right-wing opposition in the Senate? Why could they have done this when Obama could not?
John S.
What are you, kidding me?
THE PRESIDENT DOESN’T CREATE LAWS.
I don’t why so many people cannot get this shit through their fucking thick skulls. It’s fucking Civics 101. If a bill did not get brought up for a vote in the House and Senate, it is the fault of the Majority Leader in the respective chambers of Congress. It isn’t the fault of the head of the Executive branch for not stroking enough egos, using the bully pulpit or any other such bullshit.
And for fuck sake, Obama called for the vote to be held BEFORE the goddamn elections. Somehow, people either pretend like this didn’t happen or flat-out LIE and claim he asked them not to. Democrats in both chambers of Congress asked the leadership NOT to bring this up for a vote before the election because they were scared of it.
We have plenty to fault Obama for without pinning the pussy behavior of Congress on him, too.
John S.
What are you, kidding me?
THE PRESIDENT DOESN’T CREATE LAWS.
I don’t why so many people cannot get this shit through their fucking thick skulls. It’s fucking Civics 101. If a bill did not get brought up for a vote in the House and Senate, it is the fault of the Majority Leader in the respective chambers of Congress. It isn’t the fault of the head of the Executive branch for not stroking enough egos, using the bully pulpit or any other such bullshit.
And for fuck sake, Obama called for the vote to be held BEFORE the goddamn elections. Somehow, people either pretend like this didn’t happen or flat-out LIE and claim he asked them not to. Democrats in both chambers of Congress asked the leadership NOT to bring this up for a vote before the election because they were scared of it.
We have plenty to fault Obama for without pinning the chickenshit behavior of Congress on him, too.
SectarianSofa
@Dennis SGMM:
I am actually in agreement there. It’s bad enough that the legislative system is fubar, but when big media is so hopeless, I just don’t think there’s a lot of hope for progressive issues. Not now, anyway. I wish I knew what it would take to reverse that. (I mean, the usual fix, GOP in power and totally fucking everything, gets old fast. How many times are we supposed to repeat Ragnarok?)
mclaren
At this point in the movie, Marcus Licinius Crassus orders “Crucify them. Crucify them all.”
Suffern ACE
@John S.: How many times is he supposed to give the speech “I would like the bill on my desk before Congress breaks” without a bill actually appearing before people come to realize that Congress doesn’t have to listen to that speech.
SectarianSofa
I’m half-expecting someone to come up with, “Hey, don’t blame me, I voted for Nader.” (Because we all know that would have totally worked.)
agrippa
AAA bonds:
Write and pass:
a big stimulus
a strong financial reform bill
extend medicare to age 55.
What came out:
a stimulus that was too small
a reform bill that did not restore glass steagall
A HCR bill that you need a philadelphia lawyer to explain to you. expanding medicare would have bben much easier and simpler.
I think those were the big three reforms. If that had been done, a 63 seat loss would have been 25 or so.
chaseyourtail
A “socialist” filibustering unemployment benefits…only in America.
dogwood
I’ve read this blog for years but have never made a comment. I’m a liberal Democrat, but this was my favorite conservative blog back in the day. I’m a teacher who took a salary cut of $250/mo this year. If the progressives hold out I’ll take another hit after January. I’m lucky that I can handle this without disaster, but it will have an effect. I have had the same standing appointments at my beauty shop for 25 years. I will have to cancel them next month. The owner of the shop is a single mother barely hanging on to her business. What the Progressives are telling me is I should send the $150/month I spend at the shop to the Republican controlled House and that will be a big victory. A victory for whom? What do I tell the hard working woman who loses her shop at worst or lays off employees at best? Watch Bernie Sanders or read the Daily Kos; it’ll all make sense. Is that what I tell her?
Mnemosyne
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Like the iTouch is the only way I have of connecting to the internet.
jharp
Bernie Sanders is a national hero.
chaseyourtail
Sanders read from Arianna’s book? Well, that explains it all. He, apparently, has quite a bit in common with AH. Both are wealthy “progressives” and both are dismissive of the financial help the Tax Deal would provide to millions of jobless Americans living on the edge. It’s easy to live in your world of liberal purity when you don’t have to scrape together rent or make a mortgage payment each month.
I used to respect Bernie Sanders…until today. Now, I see that he’s nothing more than a grandstanding hypocrite.
chaseyourtail
@jharp:
Not to the people he’s trying to deny additional unemployment benefits.
eemom
I wish I had not returned to this thread.
eemom
@chaseyourtail:
you’re an idiot, if that’s your take-away from this.
And you’re a fucking idiot, for comparing Sanders to Arianna Huffington.
Yes, Arianna Huffington would TOTALLY stand on her feet for seven hours, red-faced, hot and uncomfortable, talking to an empty chamber about what a cesspool this country has become, and explaining WHY it is a cesspool.
Arianna Huffington wouldn’t even fucking wait in line to greet the Obamas at the WH Christmas party last week. She managed to cut in front of all the other emmessemmbots so she could hurry off to give a “speech” to a banquet hall full of other wealthy “progressive” fucktwats.
Did I mention you’re an idiot?
mclaren
@FlipYrWhig:
What form would that “serious pressure” take?
Oh, let’s see…Obama could threaten to massive fund primary opponents against Dems who refused to extend UI and he could threaten DOJ investigations of Repubs who refused to extend UI.
“Ooohhh…oooohhh…but that would be illegal!”
Bullshit. Change the record.
Explaining to a Republican senator that after the massive corruption of the Bush years the DOJ is going to make their lives one legal and FEC hell of corruption investigations, just coincidentally if that senator tries to defeat UI extensions, is merely a matter of coincidence.
Just the same kind of “coincidence” in which Dick Cheney invited the heads of major energy companies to meet with him in secret conclaves at the White House, then all of a sudden a while later we got the Iraq war. Nobody can prove anything. It’s just an interesting “coincidence.”
Just as it would be an interesting “coincidence” if the DOJ were to unleash FEC hell against all the Republicans who dared try to oppose UI extensions.
Y’know, you people just don’t have a grasp for how hardball politics works. People in power bribe and threaten and launch investigations against those who oppose them, and so far, for the past 30 years, it seems to be only republicans who’ve been playing politics like this. I say it’s about time Democrats starting playing politics that way.
Here are some other forms of pressure Obama could use: he could tell the Republicans he’s using a signing statement to withhold funds from all military programs with contractors in that senator’s state unless the senator comes around on UI extensions. If your constituents want to go broke and lose their jobs, senator, please vote against UI extensions.
And then Obama could inform the IRS that they need to start auditing the wealthy contributors to that senator’s campaign because Obama perceives a pattern of corruption there. Needs to be dealt with. Want to make those audits go away, senator? Vote for UI extensions.
Obama is the goddamn president of the United States. He can take those senators and do that scene from Casino “I got yer head in a vise, tough guy! Whaddaya think about that? I got yer head in a vise!”
mclaren
@eemom:
We wish you hadn’t returned to this thread too. Go scream your mindless insults somewhere else.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@agrippa: You know what? If the American people are not going to pay enough attention to realize why we didn’t get that stuff, then maybe this country turning third-world is what they deserve. I’ll be moving my family elsewhere.
Suffern ACE
@eemom: I thought the takeaway was, “Sanders gives speech and Huffington Post Makes It About Her Book.”
chaseyourtail
@eemom:
Typical nasty sancto-progressive response. My guess is that your sex life might need some attending to.
mclaren
@chaseyourtail:
eemom has nothing to contribute to this forum but hysterical f-words and crazed insults. Don’t expect anything from her but non-stop online Tourette’s Syndrome. She has no ideas, no suggestions, no logic, no facts, no proposals for progressive policy, nothing at all but frantic name-calling and demented obscenities.
Arianna Huffington has done some real good by creating a media alternative to the ongoing republican Fox News juggernaut with the Huffington Post. It may be a fabulous alternative, it might not reach as many people…but you know what? At least Arianna Huffington has put her money where her mouth is, and she’s out there, trying to make a difference. Whereas you, eemom, are just shrieking f-words.
chaseyourtail
@mclaren: Thanks, I see what you mean. I think the ignore button may be needed for eemom from now on.
chaseyourtail
@mclaren:
When was I shrieking f-words? Oh nevermind. I’ll add one more to the ignore button.
SectarianSofa
@chaseyourtail:
Really? Are you sure you’re on the right blog?
auntieeminaz
@John S.: It bears repeating.
SectarianSofa
@chaseyourtail:
And that’s even weirder. I expected sockpuppets, but not that kind.
auntieeminaz
@eemom: It needs to be said and I am glad that somebody is saying it. Too bad he is only preaching to the choir. Shame on the media for not paying more attention. I suppose they are distracted by Palin’s latest inanity.
The Raven
Notes: (1) Real socialism has not been heard on senate floor for at least two generations. I wonder what the public will make of it, or if the public will even notice. (2) Senator Sanders is tough. I couldn’t stand and croak for eight hours, and he’s just a year shy of 70. (3) If the Democrats go on making large concessions to the wealthy, in exchange for small concessions for the rest of you hominids, there will eventually be nothing left to buy more small concessions, and there will be rich and poor and little in between. Sen. Sanders gets this; Obama does not. I wonder who in the Senate actually gets it and who does not.
Croak!
colin
Bernie Sanders is a goddam American hero, right up there with Geronimo and Smedley Butler. The lion’s share of the “Greatest Deliberative Body on Earth” (truly a joke) isn’t fit to loofah his jock.
kimp
Just so you know, and it may have already been expressed-THIS is what a filibuster looks like, and it is beyond irony that this socialist actually has the courage of his convictions.All the Republicans have to do is threaten to have one, and the Dem’s cave every time.
kimp
@eemom:
That makes most of us.
Suck It Up!
@Cain:
She really is self serving. I couldn’t rolls my eyes hard enough when she volunteered to provide buses to the Sanity rally. She promotes exactly the type of crap that all those people at the rally hate.
Suck It Up!
I will say this again. Sander’s message will not get out to those who need to hear it. It’s not going to stop anything or cause any Republicans to get their act together and pass the middle class tax cuts only bill passed by the Senate. It is going to be heard and appreciated by those who are already following politics. Don’t care if the server crashed or the lines were busy, its the same people who follow politics.
Suck It Up!
@kimp:
The left has been pushing for a “real” filibuster because they have it in their heads that the Republicans would get tired and eventually drop it. What Sanders did today doesn’t prove you right. Sanders wasn’t even doing the filibuster on the day that the tax bill was being voted on.
you need to read up on some rules:
http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2010/01/live-filibuster-one-more-time.html
El Cid
@auntieeminaz:
Republicans only preach to the choir, and it seems to go well for them.
El Cid
@Suck It Up!:
Many may, but most I’ve listened to do not follow this logic, and instead believe that the major utility of insisting upon this sort of ‘filibusterish’ behavior would be to further expose such de facto filibusters rather than the quiet standard of refusing to vote for closure.
FeFiFo
@Suck It Up!: So start sharing it, sheesh. The man eloquently lays down exactly why this country has gone to hell for over 8 hours and you’d rather piss and moan about how none of the right people will see it instead of making sure they see it? Pathetic. Get off your ass and start forwarding the highlight clips that are going around.
Everyone I know regardless of political affiliation that saw Bernie yesterday agreed with him. The points he made sell themselves.
FeFiFo
@chaseyourtail: I’m on unemployment and going to run out in a few weeks, and he’s still my hero for getting up and explaining exactly why people like me are being forced yet again into giving millions of dollars in tax breaks to billionaires just so we can have a couple extra weeks of unemployment. Sanders isn’t the enemy here. We can have unemployment for the unemployed without extending the tax cuts for the rich – or could, if our Democratic President wasn’t such a damn sell-out.