This seems like good news:
ABC News’ Matthew Jaffe reports:
Massachusetts Republican Scott Brown today voiced his support for a stand-alone repeal of the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy, bringing the bill one vote over the 60-vote threshold that it will need to reach if and when the Senate votes on the measure in the coming weeks.
“Sen. Brown accepts the Pentagon’s recommendation to repeal the policy after proper preparations have been completed. If and when a clean repeal bill comes up for a vote, he will support it,” said Brown spokesperson Gail Gitcho.
Brown’s backing means that – on paper – supporters of the repeal have 61 senators in favor of the bill. On Wednesday Republicans Olympia Snowe of Maine and Lisa Murkowski both announced their support for the stand-alone repeal. The House passed the clean repeal on Wednesday and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has vowed to bring it to a vote in the Senate before the end of the year.
That reminds me. I need to call the clowns in Manchin’s office and ask them if he has had enough time to figure out what West Virginians think about the repeal.
*** Update ***
Just got off the phone with them and “while Joe thinks it should be repealed, he doesn’t want to do it with our troops on the front line.” In other words, he is still playing games.
I basically then went into five minute spiel about how I’m pro-choice, Joe is pro-life, but I supported him anyway, that I know he is going to vote the wrong way on anything related to energy or coal because this is West Virginia, and I supported him in the election anyway, and that I know he is going to vote a lot of times in ways that upset me. But this, I told him, is a bridge to far, and that Manchin needs to stop playing games, act like an adult, and support the repeal. I then told him that it was absolutely absurd that he needed more time to hear what West Virginians think, since he has lived in West Virginia his whole life.
The guy was very nice despite my speech.
Tom Hilton
I think it’s actually going to happen. And much as it pains me to say this, I think Lieberman deserves a lot of the credit if/when it does.
Edit: Also credit to Pelosi and Hoyer for racing the stand-alone bill through the House. And I think the President deserves a hell of a lot more credit than he’s been getting or is likely to get, for doing the legwork necessary to get the military leadership on board.
Comrade Jake
I think Reid knows what color dress Lucy is wearing:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/will-the-senate-have-time-to-repeal-dont-ask-dont-tell.php?ref=fpb
Jim C.
Agreed. Joe would earn a lot of credit for this one.
But man, this would be one heck of a cherry on the legislative cake of the last two years. This has been an amazingly productive congress, even allowing for all the legislation that died in the Senate.
Sentient Puddle
Y’know, Scott Brown claimed to support repeal when the defense authorization bill was going up for a vote, and he ended up voting against it.
Zandar
And I’m taking the opposite position of Tom there. I think this is a ploy, I think the rest of the Senate Republicans will run out the clock on this, the vote will never happen, and Lieberman, Brown, Snowe and company can say “Well we would have voted for it but there just wasn’t time. Blame Harry Reid and the Democrats.”
And another two years pass on this before we even can consider another shot at doing something 70+% of America wants to do.
Ana Gama
Sully has a post up on Lieberman’s role, titled:
“Joe Lieberman, Civil Rights Hero”
And the first sentence after that is:
“That woke you up, didn’t it?”
some other guy
My guess is that the football will be pulled away after the House Dems pass the tax cut compromise bill.
The Senate has made clear they won’t take up DADT until the tax cut bill is passed, adding pressure on the House to pass it ASAP. Once that’s done, Brown and/or Snowe and/or Collins and/or Murkowski will find some reason to change their mind just like they always do.
Bulworth
I assume there are various conditions such as needing to hold a vote for a variety of other bills first, such as a continuing resolution to fund the government, ensuring the tax bill is passed in the House, raising the debt limit, etc.
Zifnab
I might have to check a history book on this one, but haven’t we had troops on the front line since we stormed Normandy? I don’t think “I’m for repeal, just not in my lifetime” is a valid political stance to take.
peach flavored shampoo
This is great news for John McCain, who will tell us on Sunday just what a staunch supporter of DADT repeal he’s been.
Hawes
Yay, we have a victor in Harry Reid’s War on Christmas! Gay soldiers!
Culture of Truth
“while Joe thinks it should be repealed, he doesn’t want to do it with our troops on the front line.”
“Never. Is never good for you?”
mr. whipple
Well done, John.
eric
just think, if this had been done by executive order, we would not be at the precipice right now…..hmmm, this looks like an epic few hours of MegaObot vs. FirebaggerZilla on whether there will or wont be a vote. I vote for those helpful yellow subtitles.
Just Some Fuckhead
What do West Virginians think about DADT repeal? I remember some years back talking to my West Virginia relatives about gay rights and they just giggled uncomfortably and changed the subject.
ETA: Oh yeah, and now they think I’m gay.
BGinCHI
The Manchin excuse is so brazenly stupid and illogical I can’t believe you didn’t drive your phone down there and try to stick it up his ass.
“When the military is done fighting then we can let those fags prance around, like Doris Day or something.”
What a fucking profile in courage and enlightenment.
And for the record, I’m guessing the GOP will run the clock out and then claim they would have passed it. If only… Gosh, we’re real sorry.
Joseph Nobles
We will always have troops on the front line. So Culture of Truth is right. That line will be the go-to line for bigots for the rest of the existence of the American empire.
Ash Can
I agree; hats off to Joe Lieberman for what he’s done to get DADT repealed. Credit where credit is due.
Comrade Dread
Pretty simple. They’ve already said they won’t do anything until the Tax Cuts bill passes, so run out the clock while the House debates it, and then blame it on House Democrats for not being speedy and bipartisan.
Rhoda
They have the time and Harry Reid has no excuses. Let’s have the vote and we’ll find out if we can get to 60 then and there…either way Joe Lieberman has been a huge part of this as has the President and Sec. Gates and Adm. McMullen.
Nellcote
@Ash Can:
I’m paranoid enough to suspect he’s manipulated the vote so he comes off as a “hero”. He’s up for re-election in ’12 and Conn. hates him.
BGinCHI
Kirsten Gillibrand has a piece up at HuffPo title “Tell the US Senate Not to Go Home Until DADT Is Repealed.”
She’s getting pretty surprising. I like her moxy.
Now if she would only punch Joe Manchin in his nutsack.
jrg
What the hell is he doing undermining a war presnit during war time, anyway?
comrade scott's agenda of rage
John:
Welcome to the world of “Democratic Senators Who Are Actually Old School Moderate Republicans”.
We have one here in Misery, McCaskill. She stinks. I’ll hold my nose and vote for her sorry ass in 2012 but won’t give her a dime of my money or time.
Joseph Nobles
And, no, that statement of Brown’s means doodly-squat. “If and when it comes up for a vote”? That’s the question. Will he vote for cloture? I’m glad to know he and Collins will vote for it once it’s past that hurdle. Will they vote to get it past? Neither have yet said they would. Lucy saying if and when Charlie Brown’s foot connects with the football, she will let it go isn’t saying she won’t pull the ball away before his foot makes contact.
MobiusKlein
@eric: executive order vs congressional law. Showdown at the SCOTUS, Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY! Tix on sale now.
or two laws enter, one law leaves.
Comrade Javamanphil
Plenty of time and yards left to fumble this. Never underestimate the Senate Democrats and their ability to screw up a no-brainer.
Stefan
Just got off the phone with them and “while Joe thinks it should be repealed, he doesn’t want to do it with our troops on the front line.” In other words, he is still playing games.
A few responses:
1. What better time than when our troops are on the front line?
2. Umm, when aren’t our troops on the front line?
3. So when the War on Terror (TM) is over, which is…never, basically. So Joe thinks it should be repealed, just that it should be repealed at some distant receding point in the future which we will never reach.
4. When it is ever the wrong time to do the right thing?
David Hunt
@John Cole, top
Sorry about what you’re dealing with in terms of Senate Representaion, John. At least as a Texan, I don’t have to be disappointed by BS games like that. I get my bigotry open and honest from my Senators.
Just Some Fuckhead
I think while the troops are on the front line is the perfect time to do it. Think of the show they could put on and here at Christmas too.
cleter
I imagine that Olympia Snowe’s copy of the bill will be printed in the wrong font, or have the wrong kind of paperclip, and she will sorrowfully vote against it.
Karen
Has Lisa Murkowski been declared the winner? Joe Miller is STILL fighting it.
I’m surprised that there haven’t been death threats against Scott Brown because he’s more liberal than a centrist Democrat. Or at least efforts from the Massachussetts Republican party to use some trumped up reason to get Scott Brown impeached.
Skepticat
Just got off the phone with them and “while Joe thinks it should be repealed, he doesn’t want to do it with our troops on the front line.
Please consider getting back on the phone and asking why he feels we should have fewer troops rather than more on the front line, or anywhere else.
agrippa
John Cole, you did a good job of getting your point across.
The issue is in doubt whether he will do what is right.
Sweet Fanny Adams
Not believing those lying congressweasels until this actually happens. As others have already said, “we’ve been down similar roads before”. I’m hoping that they stay true to their word this time, but I’m (sadly) not too optimistic :-(
The Grand Panjandrum
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Chin up! At least they don’t think you’re a Republican. That would be an insult.
DS
Wow. What, exactly, does Manchin support that you agree with? It doesn’t seem like very much.
gnomedad
@Joseph Nobles:
We can have out rights back as soon as no one on the planet is even thinking about terrorism, also, too.
sacrablue
John,
You should call Manchin’s office back. Tell him to talk to Ben Nelson. Even he has a sense of responsibility when it comes to civil rights. I think he needs to be guilted into this. At what point are you strong enough to stand up to the ignorant bigots and do what is right? Does he really want to perpetuate the myth that the majority of his constituents actually are the hillbilly stereotype? Tell him to grow a pair!
change
DADT will remain the police of the US military into the distant future.
No repeal is going to happen, liberals, we’re going to run out the clock on the insane duck session.
MikeJ
@DS: Reid for Majority leader. Or more accurately, a Democrat, any Democrat, as Majority leader.
Linda Featheringill
@Tom Hilton:
I agree. I think that Obama had something to do with that.
FormerSwingVoter
@Comrade Jake:
From the way TPM is talking, it actually looks like Reid may pull away the football. “Herp, not enough time left ’cause I want my two weeks off! Sorry, gayfolks! Better luck next time!”
Jim C.
@sacrablue:
Are we sure that it is a myth?
TooManyJens
Funny how DADT discharges tend to wait until after the person is no longer in a combat unit. It’s almost like gay and lesbian servicemembers are not detrimental to combat effectiveness, and they are in fact valuable members of the unit.
Corner Stone
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Why Do All These Homosexuals Keep Sucking My Cock?
Kryptik
@Sweet Fanny Adams:
This. As so much that has been promised, I’ll believe it when I see it, because this Senate has been a bunch of moral cowards and moral cretins.
Zandar
Repeat after me:
Republicans will never let Obama claim a clear win.
This will not happen.
Corner Stone
@DS:
Cole was distracted by all the broken glass he was crawling over.
lol
@DS:
He thinks Democrats should run the Senate and that alone makes him better almost any Republican.
change
BTW, the tax/spending bill was just pulled from the floor of the House.
Seems like your wings were clipped yet again….
Buck
@sacrablue:
The bigotry is way too ingrained I’m sure.
My thoughts are that John should visit Manchin’s office, run a finger deep up Joe’s nose, and swing him about the room for a while.
But that would be wrong, wouldn’t it?
eemom
why IS Manchin taking this position, given that the repeal has support among most Dems and even some repubs? What would he gain by voting no except pissing off people in his own party?
Is it because yes, he does know what WVians think and he believes the
rednecksconstituency are against it?It is because it’s his first “big” vote and he’s a nervous little chickenshit?
Other….?
Omnes Omnibus
@FormerSwingVoter: I don’t see how you can possibly get that out of the linked article.
cleek
@Zandar:
this
the GOP will pay no price. the failure will be blamed on “The Senate”; and the Dems, being nominally in control, will receive much of the anger.
Odie Hugh Manatee
This is one of those issues that I will wait and see the results on. Right now all you are getting is the pregame show. I am betting that the goalposts will be revved up and moved while someone drags out the pretty tombstone they made for the bill. It fails for whatever reason, Liebermann get his cred back, along with a few others, while everyone is angry at whoever was designated to drag out and plant the tombstone.
Rinse, repeat.
I’ll believe it when I see it passed and handed to Obama to sign.
lol
@eemom:
He’s waiting to see which way the wind is blowing.
My guess is he’s willing to be vote #60 but not vote #59 or vote #61.
stuckinred
@Tom Hilton: He needs to do less leg work and more footwork, like putting his foot up the ass of the Commandant of the Marine Corps for running his fucking mouth.
Chyron HR
@change:
Oh, GOP, you so crazy.
Zam
@Just Some Fuckhead: Don’t feel bad, my mother thinks I’m gay and has since i was 13.
Fitzwili
Call Harry Reid’s office. I just got through, twice, which is unusual. Tell him you want DADT repealed immediately, that he has to find the time, even if the Senate stays in session longer. His office number is 202 224 3542. Remember that Tim F said calls really did help pass Health Care.
TooManyJens
I just got off the phone with Mark Kirk’s Springfield office and was told that people in Illinois should definitely be calling the Springfield or Chicago offices instead of DC. They just have all the comments dumping to a voice mail box at the DC office — the staffer told me that they’re having such an influx of calls that “we could staff it with a hundred people.”
He said that Kirk hasn’t decided how he’s going to vote yet (yeah, who knows). So if you’re in Illinois, call Springfield at 217-492-5089 or Chicago at 312-886-3506.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Thanks Cole.
Israel called, they say you’re full of shit.
jsfox
@change:
No a test vote was pulled. Predictions are still that it passes sometime this afternoon.
change
We just can’t afford these kinds of distractions when we’re at war.
You can be gay and in the military as it is, anyway. You just can’t broadcast that fact to everyone and cause undue distractions.
Of course this doesn’t matter to the far-left: they see the military as just another organization than can impliment their social engineering through, instead of an organization that is there to defend us one the front lines from the enemies of western civilization.
Comrade Mary
I don’t think this is going to happen. I don’t think there is any damn way the GOP will go along with this. When you have 9/11 responders and their families blaming the Democrats for the death of the 9/11 Health and Compensation Act, you know how the messaging machine works. The GOP can stop anything and not pay the price for it.
God DAMN it, what does it take for national media to repeatedly and clearly point out GOP obstructionism?
Buck
I hope there won’t be any more dentist appointments mucking things up…
Tom Hilton
@Karen:
Right, but she’s the incumbent so it doesn’t matter for purposes of this session.
TooManyJens
@Comrade Mary: Unfortunately, it would take our national media — “reporters” and owners both — not benefitting from the upward distribution of wealth that takes place under Republican rule.
meh
it won’t pass. It won’t happen. They simply don’t have the time to pass the omnibus spending bill, debate START to the GOP’s liking and then pass DADT repeal. Between getting START passed and getting DADT repealed, which one do you think they are gonna do?
FormerSwingVoter
@Omnes Omnibus:
My bad. The post I was looking at seemed more pessimistic than the one linked.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/12/so_is_dadt_history.php
Still, that could be an overly pessimistic take.
change
@meh:
Exactly. At least one liberal is in touch with ‘reality’.
Chris
Jesus Christ, what a sack of bullshit. I’m not blaming the guy, I know he’s just reading from his script… but to the scriptwriters, can ya try a little harder than that?
Kryptik
@Comrade Mary:
Oh sweet Christ, it never ends. We are just plain fucked.
gnomedad
@TooManyJens:
Done. Thanks for the info.
Dennis SGMM
OT: Tax law prof worries that the terminally ill rich may off themselves to beat the reinstatement of the estate tax.
Rather, the concern is suicide. Many among the several thousand wealthy people who would die of natural causes in 2011 already know that that outcome is highly likely. They are the people suffering from stage four cancers, advanced congestive heart failure, and other terminal conditions. It is not fanciful to imagine that several hundred, or even a few thousand, people in this group will give serious consideration to ending their lives in ways that will benefit their heirs financially.
Talk about going Galt.
Tom Hilton
Haters & doubters: wev. Maybe you’re all right and I’m wrong, and maybe not; I just find reflexive cynicism painfully boring.
All I’ll say here is that this is a hell of a lot more plausible than passing HCR was after Brown won, and we did manage to do that.
meh
@Comrade Mary:
They never will for this simple reason:
an anology: My 2 year old doesn’t want us (his/her parents) to eat dinner in a restaurant of their choosing. We (his/her parents) are hungry as we haven’t eaten all day. My toddler throws a fit in the restaurant, throwing the dishes, shrieking, yelling, generally being a 2 year old.
The other patrons in said restaurant aren’t looking at the 2 year old and saying “How come you are keeping your parents from eating?” They (the vast majority of other diners) aren’t looking at us (his/her parents) and saying “Wow those poor parents.” Well, maybe a few, but not many. The vast majority are looking at the parents saying “WTF, why can’t you control your child?”. We get blamed for the tyrannical behavior of a toddler. Anyone that has a two year old, or had one, knows how they can be, at times, utterly uncontrollable short of 4 point restraints and Thorazine. The adults get blamed, because really, who’s gonna blame the kid for being a kid?
Bottom line is the majority of people don’t understand how government works, the minutia of it that is – procedural, etc – and have no interest in it. They want to know why their taxes are going up and why they are losing their job. The Democrats “run government” according to ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/FOX etc so they must be the ones to blame…
Barb (formerly gex)
@TooManyJens: It is also interesting how DADT discharges drop during times of war. Apparently he’s accusing the military leadership of deliberately weakening the troops by allowing gays to serve when we have troops on the frontlines.
fasteddie9318
If we waited until the troops were no longer “on the front line”–well, aside from the fact that we’re always going to be at war with Eastasia so that’s never going to happen–Joe’s mouthpiece would probably say at that point “while Joe thinks it should be repealed, he doesn’t want to do it when the troops aren’t in combat, since there’s a risk that problems could suddenly arise once they do have to go back into combat, and that’s too great a risk to take.” Bigoted troglodytes like Joe just rationalize their bigotry based on whatever details are immediately at hand. Consistency is irrelevant.
Kryptik
@meh:
The kid at least has the actual excuse of being a kid. The GOP are acting like we’re the naive children and they’re the strong, manly, burly adults, and then they end up pitching the fucking plates and manage to shift the blame to the ‘kids’.
fasteddie9318
@Dennis SGMM: Wait, is he saying that a year-ending mass suicide amongst the parasite class would be a bad thing?
TooManyJens
@Dennis SGMM: I think he overestimates the number of people willing to shave time off of their life so that Junior can inherit $50 million instead of $35 million. And even if he’s right — people with priorities that fucked-up should not dictate national policy. (Yes, I understand that they do, but they shouldn’t.)
SiubhanDuinne
O/T:
RIP, Blake Edwards (Pink Panther series, Victor/Victoria, husband of Julie Andrews). He provided an awful lot of movie-going pleasure.
Barb (formerly gex)
@Tom Hilton: Except that the right can not afford to alienate their anti-gay religious base, even if it means alienating their pro-gay constituents. Those people are not going to leave the GOP because gays can’t serve in the military. The base gives the corporate lackeys the votes they need and they donate a crap ton of money and GOTV efforts.
IOW – there is very little cost to the GOP if they derail this, especially now that it is stand alone. Hypocrisy never hurts their campaigns. There is a big cost to the GOP if they allow this, I think.
In fact, I think this is precisely why this issue cannot move despite study after study, numerous foreign examples, and massive support from the President, the Senate, Congress, the military, and the American citizenry.
We truly are a Christian nation. We certainly don’t seem to be much of a republic or democracy anymore.
TooManyJens
@Barb (formerly gex): That sounds like a lovely letter-to-the-editor in the making.
Comrade Mary
Here’s a phrase I never thought I’d say or write: Lieberman is right.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Dennis SGMM: I can’t wait for the first blogger to blame the passing of some rich git on Obama Assisted Suicide!
change
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:
In the end, the GOP always wins. We’re the winners in politics, Democrats are the losers. It’s the party of Reagan vs. the Party of Dukakis, Mondale, and Kerry.
AAA Bonds
I’m about done with my sympathy for the small gaggle of whining homophobes in uniform. Grow up and get over it.
There is one major difference between this and racial integration of our forces: by the time we get around to ending this form of segregation, acceptance of gay and lesbian people will have become so mainstream, so long beforehand, that the hold-outs will have little excuse based in upbringing or morality. It will just be fear, fear and hatred.
I do not want any cowards toting guns, not in the military that works for me and the rest of my countrymen. I look forward, honestly, to the dishonorable discharges we probably have ahead.
J sub D
I’m cautiously optimistic.
The caution is largely due to the legislative genius that is Harry Reid.
Fitzwili
@meh
You may be right, however there is still the small chance that you are wrong and they will hold a longer session to accomplish DADT repeal. It takes 3-5 minutes, tops, to call Senator Reid or your own Senator’s office. Isn’t the small chance worth three minutes of your time? If there ever was an opportunity for it to pass, instead of being repealed through the courts, it’s now.
stuckinred
Hold tight, don’t respond to the vermin, it will go away.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
In other words, not while it would take even one atomic particle of courage to make the vote.
What a pathetic weasel.
ruemara
@Dennis SGMM:
I wish they would. Especially the Koch Brothers.
stuckinred
Strap it on, here we go again.
Mike M
The referee will blow the whisle before Lucy has the chance to pull away the football, or at least that’s the plan. Republicans are doing their best to run out the clock in the Senate, so that neither DADT repeal or the START treaty come to a vote. Kyl has already started the noise about Reid and the Democrats having no respect for Christians by planning to hold these votes so close to the holiday (or by threatening to extend the session into the next week).
Republicans will say anything or do anything to limit the number of legislative accomplishments of the Democrats and to weaken Obama. The public be damned.
Corner Stone
Ron Fournier just said that if Obama is pissing off both the left and right then he is exactly where he needs to be.
Q’uelle soooprise.
Legalize
They’ll try to kill it by demanding that it be put up for a vote before everything else, and draw the debate out so that Reid can’t get to anything else. Thus, forcing Reid to pick and choose his priorities. We may get DADT repealed, but likely at the response of the omnibus bill and START. Either way, Reid needs to force the fucks to stay in Washington until the term is expired. Don’t reward the shit-heads.
Anya
It will pass. They are running out of an excuse. I think Harry Reed will schedule a vote, if not he will be blamed.
stuckinred
@Mike M: Right on top of the news from yesterday.
The Dangerman
Why didn’t the House tie this “stand alone” to taxes (i.e. pass the tax and DADT repeal on the same bill). That should force a vote this year.
I’m agreeing with the “run out the clock” strategy for the football being pulled back; the Right’s base will go ape shit if DADT goes down.
Kryptik
@Anya:
Which is precisely why the GOP are gonna pull the football yet again. Who do you think always gets the blame when they pull this shit? Not them.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
@meh: The DADT vote can happen if people call and put pressure on both Dem holdouts during the last vote and the Republicans obstructing. Even if the news media won’t advertise Republican obstructionism, those of us who see it can call them and let them know that we are quite aware of what they are doing and we won’t stand for it.
fasteddie9318
Oh man, this pie filter is fucking genius. Thanks to cleek!
Dennis SGMM
Having served in combat with gays, I am at a loss to understand just what the anti-repeal people are on about. Do they think that the gay men will dress up like Liza Minelli and belt out show tunes under fire?
celticdragonchick
I really do appreciate what you have been doing for the GLBT community on this, John. I should have said that sooner.
change
@stuckinred:
Another 9/11, and I seriously think we should consider taking out some Islamic religious sites, starting with Mecca.
Shalimar
@Comrade Javamanphil: I’m all for blaming Senate Dems when they can’t come together on something and end up failing to pass legislation that should have passed or been stronger. Health Care was an example. But how in the hell have Dems done anything wrong in this disaster? They are in unison except for Manchin, who is rightfully catching shit from constituents like Cole who helped put him in office. Focus your anger on Republicans where it belongs. If this doesn’t pass, it will be because they are lying duplicitous scumbags, not because Obama or Reid didn’t do what they should.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m surprised you didn’t play the “A-list political blogger” card. I certainly would have. Do you know who the fuck I am?? would start every conversation.
FormerSwingVoter
@Dennis SGMM:
That’s a lie! There are no gays in the military, because if there were, they’d be having gay sex all over the battlefield!!11one
[/wingnut]
fasteddie9318
@Dennis SGMM: Either that or they’ll be busy trying to fuck you in the ass while you’re trying to return fire against the enemy. The conservative view of gay men is not unlike the fundamentalist Muslim view of men in general. For Islamic fundies, women are supposed to cover themselves because, in essence, men can’t control themselves and will spend all day trying to hump any woman who shows her hair to them; likewise, according to conservatives, gay men are so unable to curb their impulses that even taking live fire in a combat situation won’t stop them from trying to fuck their squadmates.
WyldPirate
@Corner Stone:
Pissing off both the left and the right, huh?
Well, Obama did have a meeting with the ex-Triangulator in Chief last Friday.
I[m not looking forward to the country being drug further to the right, but it looks like that is what the next two years will be about.
kay
@Legalize:
START is a treaty, so they need 67 votes for passage. They’d be crazy to delay that until such time as they have 5 fewer Democrats (next session) particularly as they have begun debate. Not smart. START delayed is START denied. They have at most ten Republicans. He’ll never get to 14.
I don’t think Reid is going to allow himself to be put in that position. If he does, he’s scuttling START.
Punchy
Not a Bombpop’s chance in hell this passes. The bill have a few words missing, or the color will be wrong, or Snowe will suffer a paper-cut trying to read it, and will begrudgingly have to vote against it. Just you watch.
fasteddie9318
@change:
Really? Apple and pecan I can see, but I’ve never been a big fan of rhubarb.
lol
Protip: When discussing DADT with family wingnuts, get them to talk up the Israeli military and how awesome they are for kicking Arab ass.
Then note that gays have been serving openly there for years.
burnspbesq
@some other guy:
There’s a way for Obama to squeeze them if he chooses to.
He can call them out, and say something to the effect that “You’ve said that this bill is good for our soldiers, seamen, airmen, and marines. Your leadership is refusing to allow the bill to be voted on. Which matters more to you: our troops or your leadership?”
I think you and I both know the answer to that question, but it would be nice to make them say it out loud.
stuckinred
@Dennis SGMM: The problem is that these chickeshit, chickehawk republican motherfuckers don’t want to have openly gay troopers reinforce the fact that THEY ain’t fighting for shit.
burnspbesq
@MobiusKlein:
Nice to know somebody else remembers those old radio ads.
Dennis SGMM
@fasteddie9318:
You’re right. And if I recounted my direct experiences to the anti-repeal people they would probably respond that my squad mates weren’t really gay.
burnspbesq
@Comrade Mary:
Who is this Lieberman guy, and where has he been for the last 20 years?
Comrade Mary
Sweet fucking Jesus.
I’m going out for a bike ride.
mds
@meh:
Given DeMint’s tantrum about how sacrilegious it is to work the week after Christmas, probably neither.*
@kay:
Actually, Senate Republicans are scuttling START. There’s been plenty of time for them to vote on this, if Republicans had stopped endangering national security just because they’re greedy, petty little nihilist shits. And just like with everything else, I’ll believe that there are currently the votes to pass the Ronald Reagan Nuclear Security Treaty II** when I see it. Last I checked, DeMint was forcing the entire omnibus budget bill to be read out loud. What do you think his START vote priorities are?
*I’m totally using that one on my boss, since like most Americans, redstate or bluestate, I don’t get the rest of the year off.
**This might have been a slightly more obvious way to make the point than calling it “new START.”
ChrisS
So basically they give billions of dollars of money we don’t have to the wealthiest 1% of Americans and in exchange we get another year of life support for the American work force and queers in the military.
Sounds like a helluva deal. I wonder how they decided which republican senators would fall on their swords to get this passed. “C’mon Scott, we get a ton of cash, let some fags in the military to shut them up and, well, you’re probably not going to win in 2012 anyway.”
Brachiator
OT. Now it’s on like Donkey Kong. The states are going to save the citizens from themselves by making sure that they are not burdened with health insurance (20 states ask judge to throw out Obama health law).
The other states involved in the lawsuit are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.
kay
@mds:
Well, sure. I don’t pay any attention to them because I can’t do anything about that. I just think Leiberman is being dishonest. It’s a sort of power play, boldly call on Reid (publicly) to change the order, except he doesn’t have the courage to admit what he’s calling for is not “both” but “one or the other”. Again, if that’s what he wants, okey doke, that’s valid, but let’s be grown up and admit we can’t have everything with his plan.
Lieberman knows Reid won’t have 14 votes (for 67) after this session with no leverage (tax bill) and 5 fewer Democrats. It’s okay that he’s acting as an advocate, but it would be nice if he’d tell the truth. Pushing off START to next session is dooming it. Just say it, instead of blowing smoke up our ass.
Calouste
@change:
I realized there is a use for change’s posts after all: they are perfect for Talking Points Bingo.
A Ghost To Most
@change:
ftfy.
Hogan
If that was the worst speech he’s heard today, he’s having a really good day.
Joseph Nobles
I must apologize to Lisa Murkowski. She has said that she would vote for cloture after the tax cut legislation is done and the continuing resolution is on a “glide path.” So her weasel words are not about cloture, but about continuing to enable the Republican obstructionism.
change
@Calouste:
I prefer to play liberal bingo.
change
@A Ghost To Most:
Timothy McVeigh was not a Christian.
A Ghost To Most
@change:
No True Scotsman, asshole.
change
@A Ghost To Most:
No, moron, he himself said he was an “agnostic” and said “science is my god”.
4tehlulz
lol “we”. The closest you’d get to joining the U.S. military is logging on to an America’s Army server.
Chyron HR
@change:
Somebody’s defensive. Where exactly were you when McVeigh and his Original Tea Party Patriots were hatching together their scheme to save America from the evil of a Democrat in the White House?
Mnemosyne
Follow the link that change has to his side’s bingo card. It’s seriously the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen. No wonder he can’t think in anything but slogans.
A Ghost To Most
@change: McVeigh said a lot of things (including a belief in your sky fairy), such as this from wiki “McVeigh professed his belief in “a God”, although he said he had “sort of lost touch with” Catholicism and “I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.”
In action (including OKC) he sided with (and took his marching orders from) known Xtianists (Aryan Nation, KKK, etc/.). Actions are what matters.
Thanks for playing, asshole.
change
@Mnemosyne:
It’s pathetic because that’s all the arguments you have. They all boil down to:
1) Something for Nothing
2) Class Envy
3) Taking America Down a Notch
4) The Race Card
The “progressive” platform in a nutshell.
change
@A Ghost To Most:
Actually, he may very well have had a connection to Muslim terrorists in the Phillipines. Google it.
4tehlulz
@change:
Laurie Mylroie. HAHAHAHAHA
You really are a cartoon.
kommrade reproductive vigor
@Dennis SGMM: Among other things. I saw it on JMG (I think) but some fReichtard group is claiming it will lead to cross-dressing. Also what fasteddie said.
In these dipshits’ tiny brains DADT is the only thing keeps the men* who go through the same training and do the same jobs as teh str8 soldiers from expressing their TRUE, dress wearing, show tune singing, mass raping natures in check.
*And women, though as always the bigots seem to be more concerned about pen !s owners.
[Getting one’s pen! s caught in the spam filter is painful.]
licensed to kill time
change gets its ideas about “progressives” right from Rush’s nutsack.
Hob
I seem to remember being told that we’re all on the front lines of the War on Terror. So to avoid disrupting our war efforts, Congress really has to stop passing any laws that might affect any of us in any way.
Chyron HR
@change:
Remember that Tea Party rally when you guys started cheering at the very mention of McVeigh’s name? That was classic.
But who can blame you? After all, those kids he killed shouldn’t have been in sociaIist government-provided day care to begin with.
A Ghost To Most
really fucking reaching, now, asshat. Are muslins also responsible for your hemorrhoids?
Don’t you have a cross to burn, numbnuts?
change
@Chyron HR:
Remember when liberals said after 9/11 that we brought it our ourselves and it was just our “chickens coming home to roost”?
Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)
if they’re gonna pull the football away, then we might as well cancel the vote.
4tehlulz
@change: Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are liberals? WHO KNEW!
Tom Hilton
@Barb (formerly gex): It may die because Republicans run out the clock, but it won’t be because Republicans fear a backlash from the Christianist right.
While liberals are motivated by the desire to accomplish things, rightists are motivated by grievance. This is reflected in very different responses to failure: liberals tend to be demotivated by it (or they get angry at their own side, or both), but rightists end up more motivated than ever because failure feeds their sense of grievance. Republicans would face no backlash to speak of if DADT repeal were to pass.
Chyron HR
@change:
Nope.
You understand that the rally I’m talking about actually happened, right? It’s not like when you come in here sobbing and soiling yourself and shrieking at the liberals in your head who support right-wing religious fundamentalists.
Svensker
@A Ghost To Most:
Why yes. Yes they are. Another reason to bomb Mecca! Or the fabric store. I’m not sure which…
Svensker
@change:
And they were right, too. Now, we’ve let loose a whole bunch more chickens that will want to come home eventually — the genius of the war monger mind. I know if I were an Iraqi, I’d be fucking pissed.
A Ghost To Most
@Svensker: win!
mds
@Brachiator:
Oh, the irony in that article. It burns:
Yes, the federal mandate is an unconscionable breach of the Constitutional limits on government power, because it … er … threatens the money states already receive from the federal government to provide health care. So this is basically the Republican fuckwit attorney version of “Keep government out of my Medicare.”
Whoa. Most of those states are already run by reactionary dumbshits, but it’s a shame that all it takes is a Republican Attorney General in Colorado, Washington, and Pennsylvania to get the state involved in stupid, frivolous lawsuits.
Mnemosyne
@change:
No, those are the arguments the voices in your head tell you we’re making. They don’t actually bear any resemblance to reality.
Though given that most Republicans insist that Photoshopped pictures of the Obama White House with watermelons planted in the front yard are totally not racist, I have a sneaky feeling that we have slightly different definitions of what “racist” is. You think racism is any criticism directed against white people; we think it’s taking racist imagery (like the stereotype that African-Americans like watermelon) and applying it to the first black president.
Mnemosyne
@mds:
Pretty much. It’s like when the governors of Wisconsin and Ohio canceled their high-speed rail projects and then argued that they should get to keep the federal money for unrelated projects because of the law of “finders keepers,” I guess.
They really become more and more juvenile every day.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Dennis SGMM:
Well if they did, the enemy would be faced with a stark choice: flee in fear and confusion or switch sides and join us! Because seriously, what kind of steely tough [email protected] would it take to pull off Liza under fire?
change
@Mnemosyne:
Lighten up and learn to take a joke. You used to draw George W. Bush as a chimp, and call Reagan a senile warmonger for God’s sake.
burnspbesq
@Dennis SGMM:
I assume you remember the Python sketch.
“SQUAD! CAMP IT UP!”
Just Some Fuckhead
@Brachiator:
Now it costs about $10000 to deliver a baby. And that’s best case scenario, no complications. So about $1000/lb in the judge’s case.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Tom Hilton: Perhaps. Although they have other incentives for running out the clock, I truly believe that it is important to them, during the campaign season, not to have voted for that lest they be primaried.
Dennis SGMM
@burnspbesq:
One of my favorite bits. It still makes me laugh.
Hogan
@mds: You’d be surprised how many of those attorneys general were running or are about to run for governor. By which I mean you would not be at all surprised.
Hob
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: There goes a man!
Dennis SGMM
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
I watched “The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert” on DVD the other night. I’d say that Terence Stamp’s character could pull it off.
A Ghost To Most
@change:
you’re the fucking joke, troglodyte.
Chyron HR
@change:
Meanwhile Republicans call Obama a Nazi and a racist and a fascist who wants to kill grandma and…
Bingo.
Scott P.
That’s how the system is supposed to work. Who cares if Lieberman is doing this so he can get re-elected? The fear of losing an election is supposed to spur politicians to do the right thing.
Tom Hilton
@Barb (formerly Gex): The overwhelming majority of Republicans in both houses would definitely be punished in a primary for voting for DADT repeal; that’s a different thing from being punished for failing to stop it. And it only takes 2 or 3 Republican Senators to achieve repeal, and at least two (Brown and Murkowski) have strong incentives to vote for repeal (Brown because he wants to win in a liberal state, and Murkowski because any future career depends on peeling off enough moderates/independents/Democrats to outweigh the Teatards who will never ever vote for her). Edit: and whatever Susan Collins’ incentives are, she already voted for cloture on it so she would get no advantage out of voting against it now.
Now, running out the clock is a huge obstacle to repeal. The Christianist right, as far as I can tell, not so much.
Hob
@Scott P.: If Lieberman gets re-elected by doing one good thing, and then has six more years to do the same shit he always does, until he starts worrying about the next election and does one more good thing… well, I’ll still be glad about those good things, but I hope the voters of CT are smarter than that. Lieberman has proven himself again and again and again and again to be untrustworthy, and the only reason I feel a little optimistic about him following through on this right now is that the election is more than a year away.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@HOB
@Dennis SGMM
You guys are so awesome!
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Tom Hilton: I guess I am now confused. You agree that the GOP would be punished if they vote for this, yet you are optimistic this will get done? Which Republicans will voluntarily vote to get punished by their constituents? We don’t get a vote on this unless that happens.
Calouste
@change:
Sure, making fun of people’s personal characteristics and people’s racial characteristics is exactly the same.
Tom Hilton
@Barb (formerly Gex):
I thought I explained it pretty clearly, but here goes another try:
1) Most (but not all) individual Republican Senators or Representatives would be punished if they voted for DADT repeal; but
2) that “not all” part is important, because it only takes three Republicans to pass repeal; and
3) for at least two Republicans (Brown and Murkowski), the incentives run the other way (as I explained above), and a third (Collins) has already voted for it so she’s already earned the Christianist right’s hatred on this.
Also important: I don’t agree that “the GOP would be punished” if it passes. If repeal passes, they’ll just raise money on it for generations to come–just like Roe v. Wade.
Mnemosyne
@change:
Ladies and gentlemen, I call BINGO! It was the “can’t you take a joke” part that put us over the top.
Now who wants to be the one to break it to change that his hero died of Alzheimer’s disease and was, by definition, senile by the time he left office?
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Tom Hilton: I get it now. Well, I concede that I tend toward pessimism. It’s nice to know there is a realistic route to passage, I guess.
tomvox1
Well this can’t help and will be a potentially oh-so-easy-excuse for any squishy “moderate”…
Ron Wyden Undergoing Prostate Cancer Surgery, May Miss Votes
But you know, Ron Wyden’s cancerous prostate is also somehow Obama’s fault if DADT is not repealed…
TuiMel
@lol:
I think Manchin is a blockhead. I saw his round of questions with Gates and Adm. Mullen. Not impressed – like Jeff Sessions not impressed.
pattonbt
This won’t get passed for a couple of reasons, but one, stated above, the Republicans will simply not let Obama have a clean win. That’s it. There are enough tools in their bag to pull this off. The Republicans are letting Brown and the Maine twins make some nicey nicey statements so they can get some protection in their states and keep the illusion going that the Republicans “can be reasonable”.
The second reason this will not get through is that the Republicans also know they will pay no price for blocking it. None. Letting it pass is lose lose for the Republicans. If it passes, there will be a big sigh of relief on the left that something good got through clean and pure (i.e. no compromise, etc.). And it will ease the base a bit and put the Dems on a bit more of a sound footing. The Republicans can not have that. All it takes is one fuckwit in the Senate and game over. And the Republicans have a ton of fuckwits gleefully willing to play that role.
Now I will gladly be proven wrong. But my hopes, they ain’t up.
4tehlulz
Cloture votes tonight on DADT and DREAM per TPM.
TuiMel
@Dennis SGMM:
Perhaps they are worried about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKL8w-_zC_s
Nazgul35
I think it’s too soon to use African-American troops with Tojo and Hitler still on the march…
daveinboca
Manchin is my favorite Demonrat and y’all can go pound sand on the DADT repeal. Looks like you spermburpers and sodholes can unite on this. Hope the GOP holds back the START treaty if the fag-dyke bill passes.
Tom Hilton
@daveinboca: Don’t take this the wrong way, Daveinboca, but I hope you die a slow painful death from cancer and roast in hell for all eternity.
But only after seeing everyone you ‘love’ brutally slaughtered.
And having your dick cut off.