$1800.00 and one new head gasket later, I’ve been informed by the garage that the car ran fine in the shop, but then died on the test drive and they don’t know what the problem is- it isn’t leaking fluids, etc.
I’m debating going back to bed and spooning Lily, or drinking heavily. Or maybe the latter and then the former.
Cat Lady
No Polamalu on Sunday, either. Have a nice day!
Pangloss
What do you own, a Fiat?
Mudge
You need a “buy John a new car” donation campaign..or possibly one to pay the liquor bill.
C Nelson Reilly
Ouch!
The Moar You Know
John, I don’t pretend to know what your personal financial situation is, but I will say this: it’s time for a new car.
Factory new or a few years old to spare you the brunt of depreciation, but it’s time for another ride.
taylormattd
Ugh. Two things: (1) drink heavily; and (2) be wary of these people. You might need a second opinion of some kind, not that I know how you would go about doing that.
taylormattd
@Cat Lady: Ouch.
Earl in CA
new head gasket? those directions will lead down a regressive path of financial misery. the mere suggestion of replacing the head gasket without the option of dumping the vehicle is an indicator that your mechanic may be more in it for the money than the best value for you as a customer.
chopper
drink heavily. that will guarantee that the shop calls back and says ‘it’s fine now, you need to come out now and pick it up’.
cleek
1. start drinking
2. go get a new car
Justin
Spoon then drink, avoid the clink.
Drink then spoon, jailed real soon.
West of the Cascades
Why not do both at the same time?
jrg
Oh my God, the DADT supporters were right!
srv
Isn’t there some liberal enclave of WV that has public transportation?
What you own man, owns you.
And what cleek said. You want to stimulate the economy? Do your own part and buy a car.
licensed to kill time
Well, I suppose it’s marginally better that the car died on them rather than on you once you got it home.
‘Coulda been worse’ is always a helpful motto, at least in our house. We say it a lot just to keep our spirits up, followed by a rueful strangled
grimacelaugh.General Stuck
It was only my power steering pump that recently went out on the truck, so I don’t feel so bad, since I can still drive it with a little elbow grease. Bought myself a Haynes repair guide and plan an attempted a home cure, when the mood hits me.
MobiusKlein
Drink heavily enough, and you’ll be the one leaking fluids.
Politically Lost
I flogged a small nissan truck for 11 straight years until Thanksgiving weekend. It was time to let her go. She was a great little truck that I had literally taken to the Bonneville Salt Flats three times to use as a chase vehicle during the motorcycle race week. She’d do 110 on the salt.
But, as I said it was time to let her go. Cracked windshield, busted turn signal light, clutch about gone, the A/C made a long screeching sound every time it was engaged, the emissions would probably fail without extensive work, and I had to register it before the end of November.
So, I bit the bullet and bought the newest vehicle I’ve ever owned. A 2003 Tundra. It’s weird having a vehicle so nice, I’m not sure how to conduct myself.
freelancer
BOHICA
stuckinred
The head gasket was already done, not a lot to be gained by telling him not to do it now. Stopping dead has nothing to do with the head gasket, proly a fuel problem, filter or pump. Maybe electrical.
Rosalita
Definitely a shot of something and then doggie time. Won’t fix anything but you’ll be comforted.
Elizabelle
I bought a gorgeous older but new to me car on Craigslist last year. Had it checked out by a recommended mechanic and he commended the seller for taking “meticulous” care of the vehicle.
Haven’t had one problem with the car. Paid cash. Am a happy camper.
Also: bought my car 100 miles farther than convenient. It was better priced and a better car than what came up locally.
Sounds like you and your pets deserve a better ride.
Treat yourself, John! First to a mojito, and then do some economic stimulating on your own.
Gene in Princeton
Get a mac.
Buck
Sounds like it died once it got up to operating temp, which makes me think that some sensor or hose may have been left off or something. I’m sure it’s minor. Just an inconvenience.
Elizabelle
@cleek:
I see cleek beat me to it.
Pithily too.
stuckinred
@Buck: Yep, if it was headgasket related it would have never fired.
Mnemosyne
I’m starting to have the “buy or repair” conversation with myself. My car is 12 years old now, but it’s very low mileage (just over 80,000) and in pretty decent shape. It’s probably worth about $4,000 on the open market. It needs to have the front struts repaired at a cost of $1,300.
I think it’s worth it this time because everything else is in good shape (except the tires, but that’s a different issue) but every repair from now on is going to get the “do I really have to do this?”
Tsulagi
Okay, I’m trying not to laugh, maybe you’d feel better to hear “I feel yer pain,” but if you drop almost $2k in a shop and a week later you get a call “they don’t know what the problem is,” that’s generally not a good sign.
That sucks. Just shoot the fucker. If you lived a little closer I could loan you the hardware for that. Might even find you a few API rounds. Least I could do since it’s Christmas.
burnspbesq
@Politically Lost:
I bought a used car for the kid over last weekend. Less than 24 hours after I wrote the check, a brake caliper mounting bolt came loose and fell off, and the right front brake locked. Fixed under warranty and AAA paid for the tow, but still …
I still think I got a ridiculous bargain ($8K for a 1998 Audi A4 with every option Audi offered at the time, and only 61K miles and a spotless Carfax report), but … Even when dealing with a reputable dealer that you’ve dealt with before, caveat emptor.
stuckinred
@Mnemosyne: Have a “buyers check” run on it by a reputable mechanic as if you were thinking about purchasing it. They should be able to anticipate many problems, a compression test is crucial.
Cain
If they were asking to replace the head gasket I would just get a new car. There is no point after that. Who knows what else leaked into the car from there.
cain
stuckinred
@Cain: IT IS DONE.
Davis X. Machina
I think it is premature to rule out demonic possession.
LongHairedWeirdo
Well… first, isolate the car type, and the behavior. Then, see if you can find some car experts on the internet. Sometimes, you’ll find that the answer just pops up.
I had an Escort that would just suddenly die – only when the car was running for a time. A good friend on the internet instantly pegged it as a heat fatigued stator (part of the distributor). This isn’t something that “just” a mechanic would know – it’s something a Ford expert (or, any troubleshooting expert) would know, because they learned that the Escort had that problem.
burnspbesq
I also replaced my car (the lease on my Audi A3 was about to run out) at the same time I got a car for the kid. If you are in the market for a fun, economical smaller car, run – do not walk – to your nearest VW dealer and check out the Jetta diesel.
Buck
New or used- it doesn’t matter. Automotive woes happen to everyone.
I am 48 and have never owned a new vehicle in my whole life – up until about a month ago, that is. I bought a 2011 Cadillac SRX, and noticed a piece of plastic trim cracked on the interior of the right-rear door. And an ambient light wasn’t burning either. Turned out to be not fully plugged-in. And now my right-front wheel is losing pressure (very slowly – those are the worst).
Makes me ask, “What’s next?”
cleek
@burnspbesq:
i bought a used 2007 A4 convertible this summer – my first used car! but, given the price of the new ones (and the fact that they don’t make A4 convertibles anymore – gotta step up to the A5 for that), used was the only thing that made sense.
luckily, it’s a great car. and only 11K miles when i got it.
4jkb4ia
@Cat Lady:
If the Stillers were going up against a functional football team that might mean something. I will predict 7-0 Jets in a fit of bravado.
Cain
@stuckinred:
@Cain: IT IS DONE.
Pretty much. One mechanic said that about my car and refused to work on it. Too bad he was wrong in his diagnoses and I ended up getting work done on it somewhere else.
cain
donnah
Ouch, that’s sucky. Our van died the same day yours did, but we got off “easy” for $650 to replace the starter, fix an oil leak, and replace a rear tail light.
We’re heading for Beckley this evening to visit family for the weekend. They live down by Lake Stephen. It’s such a beautiful part of the country. I just hope the weather stays decent so we don’t get snowed in. It’s not supposed to snow until Monday…
burnspbesq
@cleek:
I loved my A3, and would have gotten another one if I hadn’t been a little budget-constrained due to the need to get a car for the kid. The difference between a Jetta TDI wagon and an A3 TDI, comparably equipped, is almost $7K.
Mnemosyne
@burnspbesq:
One of my friends has to commute from Laguna Niguel to Santa Monica 2 or 3 days a week and she just traded her old car in for the Jetta diesel. She loves it to death — if nothing else, she really appreciates that she only has to fill up once a week, not twice a week.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
Laguna Niguel to Santa Monica? Gah. I thought I had it bad going from Orange to Century City.
Jager
Don’t know what kind of car it is, but if the shop has computer diagnostic equipment designed for the make and model of the car, they should be able to find the problem in a few minutes. If they don’t good freaking luck, tow it to the dealer.
Seems to me you might be dealing with the kind of “Foreign Auto Repair” shop I stopped at in rural Maine in the 80’s. I had a 911 at the time and it developed a bad leak at the outlet fitting on the oil tank. The guy at the shop said I don’t know much about these “Poorchas” but my cousin has had a bunch of them Volkswagens, want me to call him? I fixed it myself by wrapping some thread into the threads of the fitting, made it home without any further problems!
p.a.
use teh google and plug in car type and problem. i was surprised how much somewhat helpful info i found on my recent car problems. oh, and i ended up in a new car.
stay away from her. she’s too good for you.
Corner Stone
Cole lives in a town of like 300. There’s no repair shop or bodywork place that can exist if they’re idiots or practice fucking their clients.
In a place like Houston, sure. You’ve got a million extra suckers who might give you a shot. In 300 person Podunkistan? You fuck Jimbob Willie Jr. over and every person knows it in about 45 minutes.
thomas Levenson
I see you $1800 and raise you $1200. My car went in two days ago for an oil change and a check on a presumably bad coolant level sensor.
A radiator, two sway bars and bushings, two gaskets and attendant minor stuff (and an oil change) later I’m up to 3K and counting.
Ho Ho F**king Ho.
Davis X. Machina
Seems to me you might be dealing with the kind of “Foreign Auto Repair” shop I stopped at in rural Maine in the 80’s.
Rural Maine, when not pickups, is all Subes, Saabs and Volvos, the latter, even 25-year old ones, are as common as dirt up heah. Audis, Porsches, not so much. My kid’s got a 240 that’s older than she is. The wife drives a 1996 850 wagon, that’s the family’s newest car and long-haul vehicle. Went to Pittsburgh in it over Thanksgiving.
Davis X. Machina
@thomas Levenson: Explaining quantum phenomena is a lot easier to anyone who’s ever owned an old car. The notion that the cost of a repair can only go up, and in $300 increments, with no intermediate levels of expenditure possible, is depressingly familiar to us who are nursing beaters…
Buck
When a post is waiting for moderation (WHY? I have no idea), does that means it’s pretty much gone for good?
I’m not typing all that again. Oh well.
John Cole
The car is having the repairs done at the dealership we have been buying subarus from for 20 years. They are competent, honest, and fair. I wouldn’t buy a car from anyone else.
General Stuck
@John Cole:
Allow me then.
Corner Stone is a flaming idiot.
There now, we have closure
Politically Lost
@burnspbesq:
I, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, was for six years a salesman at several of the local dealers. So, shopping/buying a car for me is a much different experience than for most. I generally walk into the manager’s office and shoot the shit for a while then ask them to bring up the vehicle I may be interested in on their computer. I can then assess what they paid, what was done in the shop, get a carfax, ask them to run different payment scenarios, etc.
The silver lining of being a car salesman is that I am now a consumer law attorney that sues dealers for fraud and lemon law stuff.
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole: Then how will you get a Saab?
R-Jud
@burnspbesq:
Ah, good. Another arrow for my quiver. “A car” is on the list of things to buy during 2011, and I am trying to bring the spouse around to a Jetta.
burnspbesq
You know you’re seriously in procrastination mode when you are reading Mel Kiper’s NFL draft speculation on espn.com in December.
I should just call it a day and make up the hours over the weekend.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Others were saying Cole had stepped in it on his choice of mechanics.
I stated my opinion that in small towns bad mechanics do not last very long.
What are you talking about Stuck? Just trying to stir the pot?
burnspbesq
@R-Jud:
You live in the UK, correct?
If I lived anywhere Skodas are sold, my Jetta TDI would be a Skoda Octavia RS wagon. Cool as shit and probably 4,000 pounds less.
Gozer
I brought my car to the shop a few months ago to fix an alignment issue and a few other problems. Nearly $1800 dollars later the car runs fine, but right before I picked it up the service head told me that I might want to have the fuel pump replaced. I declined and not 2 weeks later the pump died.
After banging on it a few times to get it running again I just had a parts outfit expedite me one and replaced it myself in about an hour. I don’t even want to know how much the dealer (BMW) would have charged me. Their service guys are good though.
R-Jud
@burnspbesq:
I do! We will check out the Skoda. If for no other reason than that my husband thinks it’s fun to say. Thanks!
Tsulagi
@Mnemosyne:
Main consideration is the miles, and how driven and maintained, not the years. 80k isn’t bad at all; I’d keep it.
$1300 for front struts? What the hell you driving? Or are you taking it into a shop in Beverly Hills that provides complimentary day spa services while you wait? Two years ago I bought performance front struts for a BMW M5 for $400. It’s a simple job; took about an hour to put them in.
Amazing what shops are charging and people pay. Get a shop manual for your car and a set of tools, it ain’t rocket science. Usually faster, less inconvenient, and always less expensive to do maintenance and simple repairs yourself than taking it into a shop or dealer.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Pangloss:
God, I had a Fiat 131 back in the day. Thanks for the PTSD flashback.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: My in-laws in Romania have a Skoda Octavia hatchback with the raised suspension and skidplates to deal with Romanias f-ed up road system. I drove it a bit when we were over there last summer. It is not a bad vehicle at all.
stuckinred
it’s only 6 bills more than I paid for raisin-dog trauma last weekend!
Tom Levenson
@Davis X. Machina: Yup. My car is a ’98 w. 113K miles (not that much considering.) It’s also a once zoomy convertible, which I justified to my spouse as being cheaper than therapy.
That’s true, still. But let me be the first to say that you never want to hear the words “rusted fastener” drop from your mechanic’s lips.
Which is to say that the quantum of repair is a bitter concept well understood in this household.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Nah, I’d say you are pretty much done.
negative 1
I hate to say it but twice I’ve had the same issue (blown head gasket) and twice I flushed $1,000 down the toilet trying to fix it. My boss’s husband is a mechanic, I told him this once and he said “That’s because when the head gasket goes the car is done. Just buy a new one.”
LIkeableInMyOwnWay
Well, I predicted $1500 for the head gasket (forgot about inflation though) but I didn’t predict the aftermath. When the repair guys tell you the car died and they don’t know why, that’s not really in their handbook of how to manage customer expectations.
I had a car for which the original new car dealer was stumped on a repair. Several tries, no fixie. The car only misbehaved at elevations above 3500 feet. The dealer suggested that I take the car to a dealer in Flagstaff, elevation 7000 feet, and leave it there and let them … uh … drive it around, I guess. How I lived or got around while they were doing this, my problem, as near as I could tell.
I said I would think it over. Following week, I traded the car into them for another car, and now it was their fucking problem. I told the service guy to try taking it up to Flagstaff if they had any problems with it later. Heh. Most satisfying trade in I ever made.
Jager
On the other hand: My neighbor is an old car freak, two years ago he found a 50 Mercury coupe parked in a steel building on a ranch in E. Montana (old car freaks divine these cars out, somehow) the car had been in the building since ’66. 61k on the odometer, no rust, the building was tight so no mice. They loaded it on on a flatbed and brought it to SoCal. he boiled out the radiator, changed the oil, put in new plugs, points and wires. Cleaned the carb, drained the gas tank, filled it back up and it ran like new. He did a brake job on it, detailed and waxed it. He has shown it as “survivor” in a bunch of car shows and place near the top. I’ve driven it and it drives like a, well, 50 Merc. The tube type AM radio sounds out standing and a three speed manual with overdrive is still a great transmission!
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Is this all you have Stuck, just hanging around flinging piles of your own feces at other commenters you don’t like, and grunting now and then. What purpose does that serve you?
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Touche! you little demon
stickler
Please, people, do some research if you’re contemplating buying used. One very important bit of advice: NEVER, EVER, EVER buy a used Audi. German engineers design those cars to run fairly well for about 50,000 miles. After that it’s going to be financial misery at every turn. Used VW’s can be pretty dodgy, too, as they’re the same company. VW Jettas, Beetles, and whatever else rolls off the line in Puebla, Mexico, just don’t have a good reputation at all.
But why in the hell would anyone buy used now? The 2008 crash killed new car sales, and everyone started buying used. Thus, the cost of a used car is higher now than it’s been in twenty years (relatively speaking). Meanwhile, the car mfrs. are still placing large piles of cash on the hood of new vehicles. Look for a Christmas deal.
Our host needs a new ride.
Francis
@burnspbesq: Wow, you do have it rough. What time do you do your commute?
(This is a piece of road I’ve gotten to know well. I’m commuting every day from Long Beach to Santa Monica College. I used to be a land use lawyer until that job got wiped out. Now I’m finishing up 2 semesters of chemistry to qualify to sit for the patent bar exam, then I hope to find work in a Century City law firm. If I get that job, do you want a car pool buddy?)
stuckinred
@Jager: Pictures? Check out this 42 Chevy Fleetline Aero used in La Mission.
stuckinred
@stickler: Cash for clunkers didn’t help.
Morbo
@John Cole: rehashing from the last car thread: my Subaru had the head gasket among other things go out a few years ago. $2300 later I had a new engine that lasted all of 6 months. The mechanics’ second fix stuck, but the exhaust died last year. Interesting fact about that year’s Subarus: they have two catalytic converters and two mufflers. So yeah, got a new (used) one.
Mnemosyne
@Tsulagi:
1998 Toyota RAV-4. It’s not the struts that are the problem per se, it’s that they’re leaking, so there’s extra stuff that has to be replaced beyond just the struts themselves.
burnspbesq
@Francis:
My kid goes to OCHSA. I usually drop him off at school between 7 and 7:30 and then head in. Once he has his license and a parking permit, he will be driving himself to school, and I may start to go in earlier ( I have this fantasy about getting up at 4, going to the gym, coming home to get cleaned up, and being on the road by 6).
I usually don’t leave the office before 7:30 p.m.
Jager
@stuckinred:
Man those cars were boats, weren’t they? Looks like its got every accessory known to man. Too bad the guy ‘slammed” it. If its got a “350 crate motor” in it with a late model automatic, I’ll puke!
I have a picture of the Merc taken when it was pulled out of the building on the ranch, but its on my other computer. He has a 50 Ford F-1 too. The F-1 was a Forest Service pick up in Colorado and they used it until the early 70s, still got the logo on the doors and the flathead runs like a charm.
Another guy a few blocks from me (this is SoCal, after all) has a 62 Imperial 2 door hardtop with a 440 wedge, cream with black leather interior…beautiful and it gets 8 mpg!
sixers
Had the same problem almost 3 months ago. The cars running great now after they dropped a new engine in it(3K). Work paid for it or I’d have a new car.
Francis
@burnspbesq: Once he’s driving himself in, join a gym in CC, get up at 5, hop on the road immediately. Park at Long Beach airport / meet me there. We’re back on the freeway in 2 minutes, in the carpool lane. We do the same heading home around 7:00.
(What kind of law do you practice?)
stuckinred
@Jager: Bad sleds, I guess they just started up after the war where they left off because demand was so high. My old man liked Mopar’s for some reason but we did have 56 Buick that had the same color scheme as that Chev. Here’s my baby, not all that classic and it does have a crate 350 but I couldn’t find a 283 when I lunched the old one!
stuckinred
@Jager: Breathe easy, “rebuilt 235 cid straight 6”!
stuckinred
Any of you gearheads know what the strange rear-view mirror set up is on this ride>
Jager
@stickler:
One of my friends is a retired car dealer. He now owns 3 big auto auctions (12-1400 units a week) he agrees prices are up, but not on everything. He was at his Phoenix auction a week ago and they sold a 2 year old loaded Escalade with 23k on it for 27,000…it was close to 60k new. Economy cars equal high prices, small suvs, etc. As you said VW’s Audis, cheap at the auction as are 911s, Cayennes, etc. BMWs, Benz prices are high. Know what he keeps to drive when he’s at his condo in Santa Monica? A two year old Malibu, he bought it at his auction for 11k, as he says, a great car for the dough! At his home in Phoenix he has a Bentley GT and a 740IL BMW, but he usually drives a a 3 year old Impala (once again from his auction) as he made all his money with Chevy stores!
Gus
@Politically Lost: Cheez, live with the cracked windshield, replace the turn signal light, replace a belt for the air conditioner. Okay the clutch sounds expensive.
Jager
@stuckinred:
I had my Corvette in for service and the dealership has a kind of speed shop parts department, they had a “crate” 283 in there for 1400, less intake, water pump and exhaust. The kind of engine you want to build something around.
Nice Chevy! Are those “baby moons” on your pickup? way cool.
My Dad was a car dealer, when I was in HS I had a black ’54 Chev sedan delivery, we bought at a state vehicle auction. I blew up the stock engine in 48 hours and one of the mechanics, tucked in a “gravel truck” six, 270 CID, with a cam, headers, three carbs and Mallory ignition, we put a close ratio cluster gear in the 3 speed and a Corvette clutch and pressure plate. There wasn’t a V8 around that could touch “The Hearse” up to 70mph, perfect for street racing! I dropped it 3 inches in the front and put chrome reversed wheels on it with baby moons in the center and of course it had a Sun Tach and a Hurst shifter! That old six sounded like a Jag XKE…shoulda kept it!
stuckinred
@Jager:Yea, in fact that was right after I had it painted and they were aftermarket baby moons. I now have early 70’s Nova Baby Moons with the bow tie on em, not many people recognize it but some do. It’s funny, I went to a bunch of Chevy dealers in Georgia and they all told me I couldn’t get a 283 and that they would not give me any warranty on a 350 because they didn’t come stock in the 66! I found a joint in Texas that offered a three year and what I paid in shipping a I saved in taxes it was a push. I’m trying to find the picture of the 56 Chevy Panel truck I owned once upon a time. Someone dropped a 389 poncho with an automatic in it and it never ran worth a shit but it looked good!
the panel shows up in this video at about 32 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkL_Xl5Qiuo
ChrisS
My neighbor, a WWII vet, had a late 50’s chevrolet pick-up that he had since it was new. I was in high school when the truck caught my eye, and he was in his late 70s and all he used it for was a quick trip to the bank and grocery store and driving out to his vegetable garden occasionally to harvest sweet corn (he had an acre or two of hobby corn that he would sell on the roadside, neighbors could pick as much as they wanted).
I was away in the AF when he passed away and his son sold the truck at an estate auction for a couple of thousand. The guy who bought it, gave it to his kid who promptly fucked it up by “customizing” it and wrapped around a tree a few years later.
I really wish I could have bought that truck.
I just bought a new Nissan Frontier that is pretty sweet – for a 270hp V6, it manages near 20mpg and even has a rumble to it. Though I figure I’ll have to mail in the keys once gas hits $10/GLN, it’ll be fun until then.
thomas Levenson
@thomas @Davis X. Machina: : For the record: the total came to $3132.09. The last three hundred was as DXMachina predicted, the quantum of repair — a little extra thrown in on the discovery of rusted solid tie rods.
I’m going to drink heavily from the moment my rescued little money sink comes to rest in the garage. Old Tennis Shoes, I’m afraid; can’t afford the good stuff anymore.
Kirk Spencer
@Tsulagi: And now for the counterpoint.
To totally care for my car I need to invest time in learning the techniques and skills plus money for tools. Time doing that is time I am not doing either earning money or enjoying myself. I don’t LIKE working on cars. I can do some basic maintenance but it is not a pleasure.
I have a specific example. I can pay for the oil and filter, change oil and filter, dispose of the oil, and clean up both myself and the inevitable spills on the ground. Total time about 45 minutes (including travel to dump the oil) and about $15 for oil, filter, and the waste oil dump.
Alternately I can take my car to one of the oil change jocks and get it done for about $25. I can drop it off, go over and do some paying work, and pick it up when I’m done working. My net cost, then, counting my earnings and the expense, is around $5.
So by taking it in I spent (net) less and I got to do something I somewhat enjoy while my oil was changed.
thomas Levenson
@stuckinred: Want. WANT
Politically Lost
@Gus:
My father in law said the same thing. His formula for car ownership is the thousand dollar a year rule. i.e. For every thousand the car costs then that’s how many years it has to last. If you spend a thousand on maintenance, then add another year.
That truck was $6,500 and lasted 11 years with minimal maintenance. Time to move on. Besides, it was so nasty inside my wife refused to get in it anymore.
Jager
@Politically Lost:
Geez, I don’t know how old your father in law is but with the average price of a new car well into the 20’s, I hope he buys a good one. On the other hand, when I was walking the dog this morning I saw a clean ’97 Explorer, 4X4, V8, with leather and all the goodies. The sign on the window said $3,900 or best offer. needed tires, though, about 600 for a decent set, put him at about 4 and half years.
Jager
@stuckinred:
The same guy who did your panel must have done my friend’s 41 Ford engine swap, bored out small block with all the speedy stuff…it would get up and go like hell to about 4000 rpm and then start to sputter and back fire…he worked on it for a year ran out of money and gave up, sold it to another moron, who wrecked it within the week.
As much as I like old cars, they weren’t worth a damn compared to the cars of today. When I was a kid in the 60’s a car was worn out at 45-50,000 miles, tires lasted maybe 5,000 miles, they needed to be tuned up every couple of thousand miles, even with cheap gas the mileage was terrible, they were hot, stuffy and sticky in the summer and cold in the winter, with really bad defrosters. The seats sucked, bad brakes, shitty handling. I learned my lesson when i rebuilt a ’68 Mustang GT, gorgeous car but until I redid the suspension, put disc brakes on it and modern tires (mounted on replica Halibrand wheels) it was virtually unusable for anything other than doing a cruise night. We drove it from Boston to Florida and I was ready to leave it along side the road in NJ and that was after I redid it for the 2nd time! When we got home, a guy traded me a year old Ranger XLT, 4X4 long bed for it, even up. The Ranger was a nice little truck.
stuckinred
@Jager: I bought my 66 25 years ago for $2500. Since then I’ve painted it , 2 trannies , wiring, seat covers, rebuilt the bed and had a new 350 ling block put it (I don’t have a garage so doing an engine was a problem). priceless
RosiesDad
@John Cole:
I sincerely hope that the cause of the car quitting is something minor (as many have noted, a faulty head gasket repair would not cause sudden shut down) but if it’s something more than that, it’s good that you have a long, trusting relationship with the people dealing with the problem.
RosiesDad
@Jager: 1959 Chevy Bel Air vs. 2009 Chevy Malibu.
I would have thought the Bel Air would fare better.
Jager
@stuckinred:
There seem to be enough motorheads on Balloon Juice to start a once a week “Top Gear” type thread (anyone see last week when Jeremy drove the 3 wheeled Reliant, 13 miles and rolled it about 10 times) you could be the editor!
Sko Hayes
@Kirk Spencer:
Amen. When I was in my 20’s, I had a little Dodge Colt that I rebuilt the engine in, with help from a roommate. It was interesting, took a couple of weeks, and turned out great.
I’m in my 50’s now, I would either need my current car (Ford Explorer) up on a rack just to remove the oil filter, or an extra joint in my arm to reach it from the top.
I whip it over to the shop, in an hour they can change the oil and rotate the tires, and it costs me about $15 (probably more because I shop while waiting on the car).
Not interested in “tinkering” anymore.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jager: There is an eclectic enough group of people on BJ that almost any topic will bring out arcane expertise and experience from the commenters. It makes this place fun.
stuckinred
@Jager: I love my hot, uncomfortable, cold, loud, windy 66 but it’s not my daily driver. I conned my bride into the new mill because she’s a fanatic gardener and I promised it would always be used as a truck first and foremost. On the other hand the old school Smithy’s steel packs sound incredible on the 350 and I get lot’s of thumbs up on the street. I’d have a Harley but, at 61, I need to be cool.
stuckinred
@RosiesDad: My 66 chev has a steel dashboard and the steering column will go right through the drivers chest in a head on. They make a u-joint, break-away column but it’s really expensive. I also run a single reservoir master cylinder and drum breaks. Speed on brother, hell’s only half-full!
Jager
@RosiesDad:
That nice little small block in the 59 would be right in the driver’s lap! The engine in the Malibu is designed to drop down in a frontal crash. Notice the way the new car is designed to transfer the energy of the crash up and over the passenger compartment. Kind of blows the theory that in the old days cars were big, heavy and safe! The only reason deaths are down on the highways is because the cars are safer, not because we drive better.
My high school girl friend Joanie drove one of those ’59 Chevys, a six cylinder, stick, Belair 4 door, titty pink and cream tu-tone! Nice big seats, the size of living room couches, with out seat belts as I recall.
stuckinred
@Jager: I didn’t need to see that! There is no way my Chev is safer except for the lap belts. Certain Chevy truck seats with built in shoulder belts will drop in the cab, hmmmm.
Jager
@stuckinred:
Better get a set of Simpson 5 point belts, with the drum brakes, you may need them! I love the old Smitty sound, especially with a small block Chev.
When I got my Corvette in 2007 (first American ride since the late 80’s) I hated the stock exhaust sound, I got a set of Borla’s for it, Mrs J almost shit a brick, “The car is brand new and you put new mufflers on it are you crazy”? Then a month later when she saw what the Borla system cost, she shit on my head again! She bitches about it all the time, because whenever I drive into the garage, the house shakes, on the other hand she loves the way Ferrari’s sound? One night we were driving home from dinner and she said (having had more than a few glasses of wine) “show me what this black bitch can do” I hit the “Competitive Driving Mode” button on the console, shifted into first at 40 miles an hour and pinned Mrs J to the seat, powerslid it around a sweeping lefthander (Tanner Foust would have been proud) and drove like that for about 10 minutes. When we pulled into the garage, she looked at me and said sweetly, “you really shouldn’t drive like that” leaned over and gave me a movie star kiss…its been 14 years and I still can’t figure her out. And I just can’t grow up, either!
Tsulagi
@Kirk Spencer:
And now the counterpoint to your counterpoint.
Granted good tools cost good money. But they’re an investment and they don’t really wear out. For a couple hundred dollars you could have a decent set for virtually all the repairs you’d do. Not talking an engine or transmission rebuild, just simple repairs of consumables like shock/struts, brake jobs, replacing an alternator, water pump, fuel pump, etc. The easy stuff. Doesn’t take a whole lot of time to learn the skills. If you have a shop manual for your car, can follow directions which usually includes helpful photos to clue you in, know the difference between clockwise and counterclockwise, you can do it.
You gave an example, here’s mine. A few years ago my BMW needed a brake job. Thought about having it done until I was quoted $1300 and change. With tax that would have been over $1400. Instead, ordered a package offered on ebay that included quality Brembo rotors, performance pads, sensors and caliper rebuild kits for a little over $400 that showed up at my door. The next Saturday taking my time I spent about four hours doing the job. Four hours saving about a grand, and knowing the job was done well and right.
Your example? If it takes you 45 minutes to change oil and filter, you’re doin it wrong. Or rather just slowly. And maybe your preferred speedy oil change place is different, but a lot of them cut corners. Cheapest filters and oil to save every 50 cents or a buck to add to their bottom line. You might even get the last guy’s oil. Recycling! And you can hope they remembered to tighten the filter in their need for speed. Didn’t for a friend of mine. He got to be a blue cloud on a freeway when his fell off and oil poured onto his exhaust.
My oil changes definitely cost more than $25. I use quality synthetic oil and filters. My car’s engine thanks me and it’s cheaper in the long run. Order online and it shows up at my door. Then I do the job when I want in less time than it would take me to drive to my nearest quick lube place. Dumping the used oil is easy in my state. Car parts places that sell oil are required to have tanks that customers can dump used oil into. On my way to someplace else, I can dump the oil in one of those.
RosiesDad
@stuckinred: There’s room for them and in these troubled times, less room for you. Drive carefully!
@Jager: Improvements in tires alone are remarkable. Think those old bias plies would have been stable cruising down the interstate at 80? But your point is well taken. No design consideration for crumple zones 50 years ago.
Jager
@RosiesDad:
You are so right!
I had a 69 Z-28 with those first generation “performance tires” on it, they lasted about 6,000 miles, they were figerglass belted wide bias ply. I switched to a set of Michelin radials…what a difference, they were so much better it was mind boggling. My Z would burn the original tires up from a dead start, with the radials, a little chirp and it was off we go!
Jager
@Tsulagi:
When I had a ’70 911T with the touchy carbs, I paid a Porsche mechanic $125. to teach me how to tune the car, what tools I needed, etc. After that a tune up cost me little or nothing. I did the brakes on that car and have replaced the pads on our AMG Benz. Haven’t had to do anything to the Corvette at this point except change oil.
Kirk Spencer
@Tsulagi: Let’s start with the anectdote. “You shouldn’t because I knew this guy who…” is a scare story. It might be true. It is not the industry as a whole. I’ve never lost the filter, never had the oil cap left off, never had an engine seize from old oil, not from any of these places.
Second, the brake job. I did a brake job about 20 years ago. Took me all frigging day, and I ended up with scrapes and cuts and bruises. I know that practiced people can do it in a handful of hours. I do not work on cars, I would not get practice.
Which brings us to the tools. I wouldn’t tinker on the car, tweaking it to get a few more oomphs. That means those tools you recommend would sit mostly unused; they’d darn well better last a lifetime. I have a lot of things laying around that I bought, used once, and never since. Let me correct that, I USED to have a lot of those things. My wife put her foot down, and now most are gone. Since I’d only do these things once every couple of years it would quite possibly require I purchase several of the tools over and over.
Look, I’m glad you enjoy working on your car and can afford the tools and such. You probably get as much charge as I do out of building and modifying computers and game machines. But in the end there aren’t enough hours in my life to everything I WANT to do, much less everything else on top of it. So I’ll pay to have my oil changed, and others will pay me to do research and to do computer maintenance, and we’ll all be satisfied with our lives.
Paris
Went to pick up my daughter’s Jeep with new universal joints and a brake line went when they tried to back it out of the garage.Better there than 2 minutes up the road. So I echo the ‘it could have been worse’ outlook. Its a ’96 so I probably should get something newer for her but too bad, we need a newer car first. Having a brake line go while you’re driving will be a good learning experience.
fucen tarmal
@John Cole:
my god, they are holding john cole hostage at the dealer, and attempting to ruin his reputation by starting rumors of santoriality.
have soros send in the swat team!
Corner Stone
@Paris:
***SPUTTER***
I lol’d my absolute ass off at that.
Corner Stone
@Kirk Spencer: I’m with you. I busted more knuckles as a 19 yr old replacing an engine+tranny than I ever want to remember.
Special tools, special knowledge, lotsa time. As a 19 yr old I didn’t have that kind of time. I sure as hell don’t have it now.
Not my idea of a good time. I’ve been trading money for time for the last decade, and I plan to continue doing so for the foreseeable future.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Over at our old house a neighbor of ours blew the head gasket on their 4 cyl. import and didn’t have the money to fix it or get another used car. I told him that if he was willing to help me that I would teach him how to repair it. He was pretty reluctant but he knew that I am an ex mechanic and have a nicely built Mustang with a very large engine that the factory didn’t put in it, so he decided to give it a shot.
It took about a week and a half to get done, parts cost was less than $200.00, resurfacing the head was another $50.00, for a total of less than $250.00. When we got done he wanted to know how much I wanted as he felt he had to pay me something for my time but I told him that he could do something nice for someone else when they were in need and that would be good enough for me. He thought I was nuts, as did his wife, but that really made their day. They were in a tight financial situation and it made me feel good to have helped people in need.
A couple of weeks later they came by and dropped off a small gift of thanks; a nice new glass pipe and small but very tasty bag of weed. They knew I was a medical marijuana patient so they though that small gesture would be nice. They were right! :)
John, did they do wet/dry compression tests before and after the head gasket job? Ask to see the results. If they didn’t do this then you are using a shop that doesn’t know their asses from a hole in the ground. Another thing is that when problems crop up after jobs like this it’s usually something they muffed up while reconnecting the systems (fuel, ignition, computer, etc). If you can get them to describe the problem in better detail (what were they doing when the car started cutting out again, is it flipping between run/dead or did it just drop dead? Did they test the injectors/fuel flow/pressure prior to reassembly? Replace the fuel filter? Were the chassis grounds removed for the repair and one not reconnected? Was it wet out when they tested it (looking for electrical connectors that the moisture seals may nave been lost on)?
Lots of little details in a job like this, any one of them can cause problems like this. Ask questions, get details! You are spending a chunk of change with them and you have the right to make sure that they know wtf they are doing.
Good luck and I hope it’s some small detail they overlooked.
Tsulagi
@Kirk Spencer:
On the anecdote, it’s not a “It might be true,” it’s true. I don’t manufacture scare stories. Anyway, he and his car survived. He quickly took the next off ramp and turned off the engine. No damage. Had his car towed home. Don’t think it’s all that unique. Don’t spend a lot of time seeking or talking about quick lube horror stories, but have heard more than one say, while it didn’t fall off, the filter wasn’t on tight enough and started leaking. Sure, though, 95+% of the time you’ll get what you paid for.
Anyway, it’s really different strokes for different folks. I do like the satisfaction of being able to be independent of and not at the mercy of a car repair purveyors: “Well, your flux capacitor zombied reversing polarity eating your car brains. That’ll be $3k for new brains with all work warrantied to get off the lot.”
While I’ll pay for quality, especially for materials, I can be a cheap bastard. When the SO wanted the second floor of our house remodeled to be our adult zone complete with hot tub in a second floor sunroom, a fireplace in the master bedroom, a media room, a dance floor, and other stuff, damn near shit my pants when I got the quotes. Told one contractor I just wanted a one-floor remodel, not an entire new house.
So I did it myself. Learned a shitload about carpentry, window replacement, flooring and more in the process. And with part of my mixed racial background being anal white German, I don’t accept anything done being much less than perfect. Which means it took me over three years to fully finish. While listening to the SO bitch about that and how many tools I’d bought along the way. Didn’t keep track of all the hours, but if was paid doubt if I was making minimum wage. But at the end did get a lot of satisfaction from it. To each his own.
Triassic Sands
John, be very careful of excessive alcohol, a dog, and a bed. The risks are biblical.
Jager
I read an article in Hemmings Motor News about the future of auto collection and restoration. The author said 50-60 years from now you may not see a perfect Ferrari 430, a BMW Seven Series or any car that would seem to be a candidate to become a collector car. Why? The electronics are too complicated to reproduce, they are constantly changing, there so many systems that are tied together; ABS working with active suspension, the transmission and traction control, engine systems that constantly monitor air temp and humidity…he said a BMW 7 has over 200 electric servo motors that operate everything from your seat to the heating and cooling system…much too hard to reproduce electronic parts, unlike making a new crankshaft for a 31 Packard or a suspension part for an Allard. I suppose my grandsons will be seeing the same cars that I see being sold today at the auctions I go to, resold again in 2070. Imagine what a nice 63 split window will sell for when its a 100 years old!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Tsulagi:
In one shop I worked at a new hire did an oil change and didn’t notice that the base gasket had stuck to the engine block. He was a young kid who had been hired to do the light duty stuff and was pretty green behind the ears. Old hands at this know that you always turn the old oil filter base up and check to see if the gasket is still on it. I always took it one step further and cleaned the base on the block, wiping a clean layer of oil on it prior to replacing the filter (wiping a thin film of oil on the base gasket first). He had put the new filter on tight, the old gasket was hardened and the engine was old (thus had lower oil pressure than a low mileage engine).
Luckily the owner didn’t get too far (three blocks away) before his oil idiot light came on. The guy was smart enough to pull over right away and he walked back to the shop to tell us what happened. I tossed some oil in the shop truck and we drove down to check it out. I saw where the oil was coming from and at first I thought he had not tightened it enough. I went to tighten it and it was really loose so I guessed that he had put it together with the old gasket in place. I pulled the filter, removed the old gasket (showing it to the owner and explaining what had happened), replaced it and topped off the oil. He drove it back to the shop and I pulled his idiot sensor, hooked up a pressure gauge and checked his oil pressure, which was fine (almost 35 at idle and 50+ at 2,500 RPM, which is good for an engine with with over 120,000 miles on it).
The owner apologized for the error, refunded the cost of the oil change, gave the guy some free future services and everyone was happy. The kid who screwed up was told what went wrong to get him set straight but he ended up being fired for other problems, like pulling two cars out of the shop with NO oil filter on them.
Shit happens.
w3ski
Sorry i got to this so late. Down with the dentist yesterday.
If the car is a Ford focus I know exactly what’s wrong.
When the engine goes there is considerable shrapnel kicked into the second plane of the intake manifold.
It makes no difference at idle or reving in the shop, but when you test drive it the second plane opens under speed and all that shrapnel goes right into the intake ports of your cylinder head. You now need a new engine. Their fault.
Sadly been there and done that
w3ski
JC
@Buck: Could be the computer. A lot of “sensor” problems trace back to the computer.