All that remains now is how Obama will get shit on by the professional left for this accomplishment. “But what about ENDA!”
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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / DADT Repeal Passes 65-31
shortstop
I seriously cannot believe Manchin used the excuse of a family party for his non-votes. Amateur hour.
Ana Gama
TPM says Manchin had a holiday party to attend, so sorry, no voting today.
shortstop
And I am absolutely thrilled to have this bullshit legislation killed daid.
JenJen
Oh dear gawd re: Sen. Manchin. Just like Cole called it; Amateur Hour. Oy.
Nice vote, Sen. Voinovich. I might even send you some flowers or something.
ChrisS
SO you have any examples of the professional left shitting on Obama for this? Or is this just another example of, “Some democrats say …” journalism?
Glad to see this place has its priorities straight.
Dr. Squid
Probably a “He took too long” or some other such codswallop.
Yutsano
@JenJen: Reposting this up here just cuz I feel like it. :)
When the Dawg gets home, I’m giving him a big long ass lip lock. In public. And neither one of us does PDAs. That’s how relieved I am over this.
suzanne
Can y’all in WV repeal Manchin yet? What an unbelievable loser.
KRK
Woo hoo!!
P.S. Hey, Walnuts, could you be any more of a LOSER?
hildebrand
So, can we now say that the last two years have been actually pretty good? Or do we still have to shit all over Obama?
JGabriel
Hooray! Huzzah! One more injustice down, one million three hundred ninety seven thousand four hundred and thirty-one to go!
Doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy this one though.
Symbolically, it’s nice that it passed with just over 2/3 of those who voted (i.e. 65 out of 96).
.
Shade Tail
And don’t forget that even though Obama was personally responsible for not getting it done before, he’ll deserve no credit for success now because SHUT UP, THAT’S WHY!
Jay C
REPEALED~!
And finally – FINALLY! – ONE piece of good political news that we cannot, even in jest, construe as “good news for John McCain”
Fnck him, the miserable old hypocrite…..
Loser!
timb
@ChrisS: we’re all positive the chip on your shoulder will begin bitching at any second….oh, hold it , you just started
askew
This is really a historic vote. Thanks to Obama, Reid, Pelosi and Lieberman for their tireless work in getting this accomplished.
And kudos to Lisa Murkowski for being the only Republican Senator to vote the right way on DADT repeal and the DREAM act.
In the end, the frustrati will claim all the credit for DADT Repeal passing and blame Obama for not doing this on January 21, 2009. But, this group is getting more and more irrelevant by the day, so who cares what they think?
Jade Jordan
Shi***** on Obama will be reserved for his trying to kill social security with his payroll tax deduction. Social Security is going broke so let’s put in less money.
Tax cuts for the rich, Ignoring the unemployment problem, letting people lose their homes in foreclosure while you give banks all the free money they want.
There is plenty to shi* on Obama for. DADT all we can say is what took you so long?
John Cole you Obot! Tunch is the only thing that keeps me here.
Maody
most excellent. such a good day with another paving stone down for civil rights.
Mike Kay (Team America)
Fucking Obama! This is his fault!
This never would have happened if he only listened to the grassroots and signed an EO during the inaugural address! When will he fucking learn to listen to the netroots!
But seriously, to all you assholes who stupidly screamed for an EO since day one, I say, fuck you.
Obama > Professional Left™
Rationality > Hysterical Freak Outs
Maude
@Yutsano:
You can breath a sigh of relief.
Blue Neponset
As part of the professional left let me say good job to President Obama and Senators Reid and Lieberman. It is good to see the Democrats can win one once in a while. All it takes is an overwhelming public disapproval of the policy, a blue ribbon commission and two years.
JenJen
@askew:
Seconded.
The Grand Panjandrum
If only Obama hadn’t persuaded Harry Reid to make nice with Joe Lieberman. We could have kept our ideological purity!
ETA: Cole, I can’t find the post, but I do recall a certain someone predicting that Lieberman might lead the way on this one. Take a bow. Good call.
Fax Paladin
So who are the two Republicans who voted for repeal but against cloture?
hildebrand
@JGabriel:
Oh, but many will try very hard.
This is a bittersweet day – DADT repealed, Dream Act killed (for now). Nonetheless, we must celebrate that the foolish DADT is finally dead. Another moment when equality actually gets a bit of a boost. That is never a completely bad day.
MikeBoyScout
WHERE’S MY PONY???????
seriously. x-mas is almost here!
LTMidnight
Hey John
Isn’t it time to serve Joe Beese that that plate of Crow with a nice slice of Humble Pie?
long ago
“DADT Passes 65-31”
your post headline is backwards, right?
or you mean “dadt REPEAL passes”.
In any case–yes, great news. And another amazing legislative accomplishment from Obama.
And another pay-off from not kicking Lieberman out of the tent when everyone else–myself included–felt like kicking him as hard as we possibly could. Here too, Obama’s long game paid off.
rob!
The Republicans managed to piss off Hispanics and Gays in one afternoon. Nice job, fellas.
Peter
I’m glad HuffPo is actually acknowledging it. Remember when FinReg was passing and the front page was nothing but fucking Tiger Woods?
TR
@hildebrand:
Well, if you’re inclined to judge a presidency by its actual “accomplishments” and “achievements,” then yes, the last two years have actually been incredible from a liberal perspective.
But if you have your head up your ass and want to imagine an alternate universe in which President Nader would’ve accomplished so so much more, then no.
Three-nineteen
I actually cried when I saw the Senate had voted for cloture. I think I was so convinced that nothing would go right the rest of this year, I was shocked into that reaction.
Did this actually get two more votes than the cloture vote? Who voted for this PM that voted against/didn’t vote this morning?
Redshift
I was watching on C-SPAN, and after Reid announced the upcoming schedule after the vote, including McCain’s proposed START amendment, McCain could be heard complaining about the Senate not being in order. Imagine, a slight hubbub and people milling around after a historic vote, and people don’t immediately stop to listen to the announcement of your bullshit amendment!
It was truly an “old man yells at cloud” moment.
MazeDancer
Rachel Maddow gave President Obama props live on MSNBC after the repeal. It’s possible the President is going to get some credit. Hard as it is, many of us are thanking Joe Lieberman. Some Obama doubters may change their ongoing five finger salute to Mr. Obama to a thumbs up on this historic achievement.
ChrisS
Hey, I didn’t fire the first shot.
If John wants to turn this blog into pet pictures and a giant circle jerk, I don’t give a shit, it’s his place, but let’s not pretend he doesn’t enjoy trolling. Just calling it for what it is.
Nethead Jay
@Fax Paladin: Burr and Ensign.
Jay C
@Fax Paladin:
Richard Burr (NC) and John Ensign (NV)
Three-nineteen
@JenJen: It’s a lot easier when you don’t have to worry about campaigning for five years, isn’t it?
newhavenguy
I think we have to consider Obama and Reid’s strategy on this vindicated, no? This is preferable by far to an executive order, or waiting on the courts to act.
It will be interesting to see if they get any credit for this from their loudest DADT critics. Damn, credit is due: this is one thing they played perfectly. And a big policy win, too.
licensed to kill time
Did McCain go all splutter-splody on the teevee? I hope so, that hateful old fart.
I’m happy that people will not have to hide part of themselves to do the job they volunteered for, and will no longer have to live in fear of being ‘told on’. It’s a Good Thing.
barbara
Ensign and Burr joined the 6 other Republicans — amazing, huh?
lamh32
@Jade Jordan:
Dude DADT was on the books now for 17 years. How many Dems campaigned on overturning DADT? How many of the same Dems who voted to repeal DADT also voted or supported voting for DADT implementation 17 years ago. Brought into existence by a Dem President, who Dems now loves.
A little perspective is in order. “It only took 2 years” come on dude, that’s just petty…PERIOD!
Yutsano
@licensed to kill time:
It didn’t cause him to stroke out and turn into a vegetable unfortunately. That would have made my Saturday even more sweet.
Jo
Nope, credit to Obama for working this through. I think he embarrassed himself a bit when his rhetoric didn’t match the perception of his passion, but it’s almost done now.
DADT still exists until the service chiefs and the folks at the 5-sided monument to Murphy’s Law “certify” how implementation will happen which should take, I think, about six months by statute, and then another 60 days … so perhaps eight months before a Gay/Lesbian servicemember can come “out” with no fear of reprisal. That constitutes actual light at the end of an actual tunnel, and one Obama can take credit for putting there.
A day that the Senate truly stood on the correct side of history.
Chat Noir
@Redshift: Yeah, that’s when I turned off the teevee. What a bitter old dirt-bag. Talk about going beyond the sell-by date.
Look forward to seeing President Obama sign this legislation!
Allan
This is a Big Fucking Deal. Thanks to everyone all around.
Blue Neponset
We should also thank Nancy Pelosi. As usual, she did what was asked of her to get this done.
JGabriel
@licensed to kill time:
Yes, CSPAN-2 is still cleaning their camera lenses.
.
D. Mason
Wow, it’s about time and aside from being long overdue, this is a truly rare thing. Something which truly has no down-side happens so rarely in government, it’s impressive to see.
kdaug
Wait, wait, wait – this repeal was originally attached to the defense spending bill. It failed in the senate, was split off into a separate bill, passed in the house and now in the senate.
So, for all the (justifiable) hurrah – we still don’t have a defense spending bill for the next year? Do I have that right?
Shade Tail
@ChrisS #34:
Shorter: I don’t like John Cole using his blog to call people out, so I’m going to get self-righteous and pretend to be a victim.
shortstop
Susan Collins just used the press conference to “remind people that it was a Democratic president who signed DADT into law.” The ballz.
RinaX
@newhavenguy:
I’m guessing no. I suspect that by the time the actual signing is done some new outrage will have taken hold.
JGabriel
long ago:
John Cole, long ago is right. You need to add Repeal to the post title.
.
licensed to kill time
@Yutsano: And a fine old eggplant he would make, too.
Pete
WHY HASN’T OBAMA SIGNED THE BILL YET?
#outrage
Ellie
So Wyden was able to make it even though he had final testing for his cancer surgery, yet Manchin blew off doing the people’s business for a holiday party. Compare, contrast. Jesus, what a loser.
Redshift
@kdaug: Correct. Republicans have filibustered a defense appropriations bill in the middle of a war with no apparent political consequences.
Sigh.
Maude
@Chat Noir:
When Obama signs this, it will be a sweet day.
lamh32
@shortstop:
Thx Susan for doing it too. Yes it took Dem President Obama 2 measly years to do this, but 17 years ago, it was Dem President Clinton (and many of the same lawmakers) who introduced this law to US. Some rabid Obama-haters though seem to want to forget about that.
Yutsano
@licensed to kill time: Dammit, I like eggplant. Walnuts can just morph into a green pepper. And watch helplessly as Cindy divorces his ass and finds greener pastures just like he did to his first wife.
@Maude: You altered your joke I noticed. It took a couple of glances, but I saw what you did there. :)
shortstop
@Yutsano: The day is young. With McCain, anger seems to be cumulative, so I’m thinking tonight is going to be a rough one for whomever happens to be sharing whichever house he’s in.
PanAmerican
The lame asses excuse of the moment is “no true progressive would want anything to do with Obama’s killbot factories….”
Who needs to hippie punch? These holier than thou progressive clowns flop more often and with more histrionics than the Azzurri.
Allan
State of the Union address, January 27, 2010
Citizen_X
If you want to be an asshole about this–and I most certainly do–you can think about it this way:
Mike Kay (Team America)
This is a great day, indeed. DADT is now in the trash heap of history. Of course until President Palin asks the GOP controlled House and Senate to bring it back. But until then…
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
OBAMA!
amk
More good news.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/17/105503/obama-administration-issues-science.html
shortstop
@lamh32: Thanks schmanks. She said it in response to a legitimate question about why so many Republicans voted against it. The part of the “This is Clinton’s law!” she forgot to mention is that, stupid as it was, it was a fucking compromise between allowing gay and lesbian soldiers to serve openly and the GOP’s preferred stance of continuing to kick them out on any whim.
Rather than owning up that her party is on the wrong side of this, she’s pretending that the Democratic party has been just as bad as the GOP on this issue. That is unmitigated bullshit.
JD Rhoades
Richard fucking Burr voted for repeal after voting against cloture.
Ah, well, a vote’s a vote.
Yutsano
@shortstop: Considering both his wife and his daughter were firmly in the repeal camp, I’d be camping extra police outside his DC residence just to watch for domestic abuse complaints. Fortunately both can outrun him.
jcricket
I will enjoy this moment, and thank the Democrats (and few Republicans) who finally, finally made it happen for all the brave gays & lesbians who serve this country, but were forced to lie and/or hide their orientation to do so. Shame on us that it took this long, but thank G-d we’re finally here.
Democrats aren’t perfect. In fact, most of the time I think they (we) suck – but these are the times I’m glad I’m a Democrat. You know that if Republicans were in charge this would never happen, or it’d be over-turned if GW were in the WH.
My only sadness is that Dems in Congress didn’t push more hard fights like this earlier, on tax cuts, the DREAM act, ENDA, etc. – I think the election would have been a lot different if all of us had more examples of what a Dem congress can really accomplish.
shortstop
@ChrisS: What would happen if you didn’t snap at every piece of bait like a goggle-eyed trout?
jon
Gitmo is still open. Cheney is still free. Global Warming is still happening. Corporations are still cheating. Tax traitor!
/flamingcaninepond
Ana Gama
@Ellie: Not to mention that Joe Lieberman worked on the Sabbath.
Jay C
@kdaug:
Technically true, but I’m guessing that now that DADT is (mercifully) out of the way, Congress will do as it usually does with defense spending, and pass the bill overwhelmingly.
Side question: besides Manchin the Courageous, anyone know who were the other three Senators not to make the DADT-Repeal vote?
licensed to kill time
@Yutsano: Okra, I should said okra. Slimy mucous-y gag me old okra.
If you claim to love okra, then maybe this instead.
{{ Warning! Possibly NSFW despite being a vegetable pic }}
eta: curses! forbidden p-word in link!
Mike Kay (Team America)
I turned on Fixxed News and they’re not saying a word about the repeal.
Instead they’re talking about…. wait for it…. pending terror attacks on the US and earmarks. I am not joking.
amk
@ChrisS: Please take your childish “he started it first” whinefest back to the firebagging sites.
Mike Kay (Team America)
@JD Rhoades: so you’re saying he goes both ways
Rock
A minor victory like this that is won by huge concessions to conservative and financial interests in this country doesn’t change Obama’s impeachable record on constitutional rights nor his caving to Republican desire to undermine social security and progressive taxation. He’s a bad president whose saving grace is that a Republican president would be worse.
shortstop
@Yutsano: It’s really his household staff I’m worried about. I doubt Cindy and John have been in the same building since the 2008 election, and Meghan probably doesn’t come around much either.
lamh32
@shortstop:
I’m sure she did, but just cause it came from Collins trying to save face, doesn’t mean it’s not an authentic statement.
My response is more to a commenter upthread who said that it took Obama 2 long years to finally repeal DADT. As if 17 years ago, DADT hadn’t been introduced by a Dem President.
For some, ignoring that fact, makes it even easier to shit on Obama even when there is an obvious victory to celebrate (as opposed to shitting on him when he really does needed to be shtted on)
I’m not endorsing Collins in anyway. Her and her Maine sister bugs me to no end.
Edit: an example of the people who just want to shit on Obama even when an obvious victory should be celebrated is 2 comments up from mine
Anya
Great day for human rights. All of those who worked on this deserve praise, including Lieberman.
What a difference a day makes, it was only yesterday that TPM was telling us that the White House is delaying the DADT repeal vote in favor of the START Treaty ratification vote.
lol
@Ana Gama:
Sullivan: “[R]ecall who decided it was much better to keep him in the fold than expel him. Meep meep indeed.”
amk
Sully
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/12/obamas-long-game.html
shortstop
@lamh32: We’re of the same mind. I’m just bitching at Collins’s gall.
Litlebritdifrnt
@shortstop:
I just wrote that very point (prior to DADT it was courts martial and dishonorable discharges) while DADT was shitty policy it replaced an even shittier one. As I have said in the past I was always torn on this because while I think gays should be able to openly serve the logistics of it are going to be a nightmare. (Barracks assignments etc.,) The military are going to have to come up with some incredible, fine line, policies in order to make it work in the real world. I do not envy the person given that task.
ChrisS
@Shade Tail:
Well, unlike Cole, I voted for Gore and Kerry. And Clinton twice. On top of that I voted for Obama in the primaries and the general.
Yep, I’m a hater.
Fax Paladin
@Jay C: Bunning, Gregg, and Hatch. (Returning the favor for those who answered my earlier question..)
MattR
@JGabriel: IIRC, technically DADT is an executive order designed to deal with how to implement the legislative ban on gays in the military so today’s votes neither passed nor repealed DADT.
Omnes Omnibus
@ChrisS:
So did I. What’s your point? You can now be the purity police?
JGabriel
Mike Kay (Team America):
That won’t happen. Even in the event of a Palin presidency, she wouldn’t have enough votes in the Senate, nor would she be able to get the backing of the Joint Chiefs, who are happy to get rid of the administrative hassle of DADT.
.
Karyn
@Pete: If only this were a funny joke and nothing more. I just weeded out some more whiny ‘progressive’ concern trolls from my Twitter feed because they instantly started in on how it wasn’t time to celebrate because it was questionable whether Obama would sign the bill. They can’t seem to help themselves – it’s like anti-Obama Tourette’s or something.
TooManyJens
@Jade Jordan:
Anybody who can look at the state of the United States Senate and still wonder, “what took you so long?” is a fucking idiot.
amk
@ChrisS: You left out “I’m smacking him now for his own good”. The I-voted-for-him-canvassed-for-him-worked-my-ass-for-him has become stale. So many thousand did those things too.
Mike Kay (Team America)
@lol: yup. remember the meltdown, especially from you know who.
once again the self important vaunted bloggers didn’t foresee the wingers using the filibuster to block everything, necessitating keeping joementum. And yet they constantly say, “if obama only listened to us.”
licensed to kill time
My comment at #75 is sadly stuck in moderation, all because of a suggestive vegetable photo link that was on the FRONT PAGE at TBogg’s the other day!
I know it’s because of the pe-diddly-nis word, but release me!
Peter
@Rock: Wow, that didn’t take long. I was sure the first would be WyldPirate, though.
MattR
Re Palin – A new ABC/Wash post poll shows that 59% would not consider voting for her for President.
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Rock: MINOR victory? Fuck you, you bigoted piece of shit. I’ve watched good men and women die who would have given anything to see this day. I served with men and women who performed with honor and grace while the country they volunteered to die for treated them like some kind of disgraceful secret. This day is a phenomenal step forward, not for President Obama or the Democratic party, but for the United States of America and the human race. Of course, if your capacity for thought and moral imagination is limited to the inside of your own eyelids, I suppose this does look like a MINOR victory. I’ve just used up all the outrage I care to feel on a day like this, responding to your sorry, shriveled-soul bitch ass. We now return the rest of you to your well-deserved celebration.
Suck It Up!
@lol:
this. of course.
Martin
So, based on Joe Beese and a number of the other’s comments regarding Obama’s support for this bill, I expect he would veto this given there isn’t enough votes to override it.
Neil G
@askew: Yes, they are. I do not believe Obama is even trying to pay attention to their whines, anymore. Polls show they are an isolated minority and a number of them will always vote–and they will always vote Dem–so who cares. Notice, it’s not a question.
Cermet
@Blue Neponset: A big SECOND to that.
Ruckus
@lamh32:
Not to get too over the top here but before this piece of crap law what happened to anyone in the military that was gay or even accused of being gay? IIRC they were booted out with a dishonorable discharge. Yes this was not much better and was abused but it was a little bit better. Could Clinton have done better? I think so. But it was at least a first step. This was the last, long, long over due step, and I am glad like many others that Obama got it done correctly, by repeal, not by fiat.
JGabriel
@MattR:
I used to think that too, but, nope, it was legislative.
So nice to use the past tense on that one (even if it’s technically a few day early).
.
Resident Firebagger
Obama is a long ways down the list of people who deserve credit for this. Others have mentioned Reid and the handful of R’s who did support DADT repeal, and they should be praised, but let’s face it, nothing at all would have happened if (most of) the military hadn’t been on board. They had to have their process, but in the end they did the right thing.
So if you insist on celebrating the fact that openly gay people can soon be fed into our war machine, I’d say you should start by thanking Gates and that crowd…
Maude
@Yutsano:
I was so afraid of giving offence. I am tired and I could see a real fail in my effort.
Ellie
@Ana Gama: Indeed. Credit where credit is due. Even though his default is “sanctimonious prick,” Lieberman has been on the side of the angels on this one.
J sub D
As I said before –
+1 Dems.
This is not to be construed that I’ll join the party.
ruemara
@Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:
Amen. Preach, my brother.
MikeMc
@Resident Firebagger: Wasn’t it Obama that green-lit the study in the first place?
amk
@Resident Firebagger: And you can start by thanking the President making Gates and that ‘crowd’ do the study in the first place.
You’re planning on voting for that tundra trollop, aren’t ya ?
Omnes Omnibus
@Resident Firebagger: Walk on.
MattR
@JGabriel: I don’t think that is right, though common use of the term has ended up with it encompassing both the legislative ban and Clinton’s executive order detailing how to enforce the legislative ban. I had previously looked through the legislation, specifically Section 571 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1994, and there is no reference to the idea of DADT.
Suck It Up!
@Resident Firebagger:
and you can thank Obama for not making an enemy of Lieberman.
Cermet
@Litlebritdifrnt: What are you thinking? Really – I’m not trying to insult you but are you saying that gay service members must be segregated from straights? That is so silly that I can’t believe that is what you mean – even most people below sixty could care less if they are at the gym showering and some members around them are gay and you think modern teens give a flying shit?
Nick
@Resident Firebagger:
Firebaggers are such fun. They like to remind everyone that the President hired Tim Geithner and thus he’s a corporatist, but now we’re supposed to act like Robert Gates and the Pentagon is an entity onto its own. Once in which the President has no influence in.
Angry Black Lady
i fixed the title.
now let’s figure out how to keep hating Obama!
GO TEAM!
Chyron HR
@Suck It Up!:
Now that I think about it, remember when Lieberman thought he was going to be McCain’s running mate, but McCain picked a mentally handicapped woman instead? I wonder if that played any role in his pushing for the repeal that McCain so opposed?
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
Finally! I’m so happy. And McCain can go die in a fire right now. Ensign though – I’m still surprised at his yes vote. Guess there are more GOPers who want to be in the right side of history on civil rights than I thought.
(edited for confusing Ensign and Vitter)
Angry Black Lady
@Allan: duh and/or hello?! we’re having a strategy session to morph our obama is teh sux0r narrative.
assimilate.
Ana Gama
The one person who gets continually left off the “Thanks!” list is Congressman Patrick Murphy of PA. He got the legislation through the house twice, and lost his seat in the process.
Yutsano
@Angry Black Lady: Resistance is indeed futile.
Ruckus
@Cermet:
This.
I was trying to find a nice way to ask the same question.
Has anyone here had someone make a pass at them? I hope that you’ve made it to adulthood with that happening at least once. Done well it feels good. So how is it different if it is a gay person? Answer, it is not different. No difference whatsoever. If you are not interested a simple no works great. And if it goes any farther without your consent? I believe we have laws for that, no matter what the sex of the parties involved. I’m sure some of the females here have extensive experience fending off bad advances, maybe it’s time the males learned what that is like.
asiangrrlMN
You know what? Fuck all the nay-sayers here and elsewhere. I’m just fucking glad this piece of nightmare shit legislation is dead.
@Yutsano: Give him another for me. Thank god.
@Ruckus: I would add, if you’ve ever been to a gym or health club, the same situation occurs in the locker rooms. Besides, where would they put bisexuals like me? Oooh, I could get my own room!
Rock
@Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:I said the victory was minor because Obama’s overall record on civil rights is abysma. DADT clearly should have been repealed. So clearly, what with support from the SofDef and polls showing strong support for repeal. It was so clearly wrong that it’s infuriating that it was made so difficult to do.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@shortstop:
HAH! I have been trying to think of that sentence all day, since DougJ invoked the large cat that’s smaller than it thinks it is. Well played.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
@Rock: Oh fuck off.
asiangrrlMN
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people): Seconded. The very fact that it was so difficult to repeal makes it not a minor victory.
gwangung
@Rock: Yes? And? Just who made it difficult?
(And given that DADT was such a “slam dunk”, isn’t the shennanigans surrounding it kind of a flare-lit tip off that things aren’t as easy they seem to be? Given what the opposition is doing?)
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I was once offered money and a place to stay in Amsterdam by a guy. I was apparently a very good looking guy at age 20. I finally convinced him that I was extraordinarily well off and that I had a reservation somewhere. He was quite persistent. As you can tell, I survived the experience.
Maude
@Rock:
abysma?
Yutsano
@gwangung: Yer gonna cornfuzzle the child with all yer fancy talkin’ there. Gotta keep it simple or they just refuse to get it. Children are used to simple answers and getting their way. It’s a wonder we don’t eat our young.
toujoursdan
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Yes, because we all know that gay people are sex fiends who can’t control ourselves and have to be segregated from those poor vulnerable heterosexual soldiers lest our overpowering lust gets the better of us and we leer, come on to them and rape them in their sleep.
Even though foreign militaries, college dorms, gyms and other institutions have integrated openly gay and straight people for decades without any serious problems, those poor, vulnerable, yet macho, brave U.S. soldiers obviously are too dumb to cope.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Well, OK. Generally, I assume folks to have at least a room temperature IQ.
gwangung
Oops. Dupe. FYWP.
But seriously, DADT repeal as much of a slam dunk as anyone can think of. And it still felt like pulling teeth without novacaine. Why would anyone think passing anything more controversial would be easy?
Jay C
@Nick:
A bit ungrammatical, Nick: but it may come as a surprise to you that as far as political matters are concerned, yes: The Pentagon IS an entity “onto” its own: and has been virtually since the end of WWII.
+
toujoursdan
@Jay C:
So you agree that DADT couldn’t have been successfully overturned by executive order?
lol
The new narrative:
Obama repealed DADT because he wants gay soldiers to die for Israel.
Yutsano
@gwangung: I used to agree with that presumption. Then I discovered the Interwebs. How naive I had been.
How’s the play coming BTW?
Maody
@Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion: Thank you, Right Rev.
Anya
@Resident Firebagger: This much hate is not good for the soul. You are in a McCain territory. Walk away before it consumes you.
Sly
LBJ deserved zero credit for pushing through the Civil Rights Act because it was merely the right thing to do.
Allan
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):
That’s been tried at least three times so far, without success. Time to switch to a different strategy, possibly a stake through the heart or ritualized beheading?
Jules
Yes We Can
and
This IS a big fucking deal….
Triassic Sands
DADT — a death worth celebrating.
I wonder if the Nasty Old Man will try to cause more trouble (maybe incite rank and file violence) just to prove himself right. What a despicable POS.
Jay C
@toujoursdan:
No, I think the policy could have been changed by EO: but, as a matter of policy – and needless to say, a matter of politics, the Obama Admin’s approach (making sure the DoD and the Pentagon brass and Congress were behind Repeal, or at least not actively opposed – and then doing it via legislation) was, IMO, the better one.
Of course, it would have been even better still had it been done a year ago, but hey: better late than never (which would have been the case in a McCain Administration)….
Nick
@Sly:
also because it took a year, so clearly it wasn’t important to him, and he allowed Senate Republicans to weaken the bill instead of “fighting” which he obviously didn’t do since only one Southern Dem voted for it, also this too.
Sly
@Triassic Sands:
On one of his next five or six MTP appearances, after it has become apparent that the military isn’t experiencing a mass exodus of soldiers who don’t want to risk catching the gay, McCain will solemnly declare that he really supported repeal all along. He just wanted to make sure the process went smoothly.
Cermet
@Allan: Sorry but that method is reserved for cheney the walking dead and eater of children’s hearts/blood- McPain just needs to be sent to Gitmo (but no torture – he’s suffered that once already.)
Sleeper
As one of those embittered firebaggers who are the cause of all of the President’s problems, I’d like to congratulate him on his part in ending DADT. I didn’t agree with the cautiousness, I think he could have suspended enforcement of it while also pursuing a legislative solution (others will argue that an EO would have sucked the oxygen out of any Congressional action, and maybe they’re right, I don’t know), and I wish the Obama Administration would decisively embrace gay marriage as much as it’s embraced gay service in the armed forces. But today’s achievement is a big win both on policy and on politics, and the President deserves credit (not all of it, but certainly not zero credit either) for helping get this through.
For people saying that this is only possible so we can help feed gay soldiers into the war machine, well, there’s an element of truth to that I’m sure. Crisis has a way of making people see how stupid their prejudices are. World War II helped to end segregated service when white soldiers and officers began to see how effective their black counterparts were in combat. I can disagree with our involvement in Afghanistan while still applauding a gay American’s right to enlist and serve there should he or she wish to do so.
Anyway, my two cents. Let’s stop the infighting for at least a day? How about that?
Yutsano
@Sleeper:
Agreed. Have a cookie!
amk
@Sleeper: Very nice try. Give an offhand approval and “shall we not along” end. Where were you when such calls for get along were made by the ‘centrists’ and ‘obamamots’.
J.W. Hamner
I refuse to be anything other than upbeat, I am just thrilled that justice was finally done for our gay service members.
arguingwithsignposts
@Sleeper:
This is Balloon Juice, Sleeper. Not. Gonna. Happen. :)
lol
@Sly:
SPOT. ON.
NAIL. HAMMER.
D-Chance.
I seriously cannot believe Manchin used the excuse of a family party for his non-votes. Amateur hour.
Hey, it worked for Dopey-Changey last week when he ran away from his job, didn’t it? Only bad side-effect: it reminded us of when we had a REAL president in office.
Robertdsc-iphone
I’m glad it’s done.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: Dude yer harshing my mellow. You can still haz a cookie though.
Sleeper
@amk: Telling people to shut up isn’t the same as asking them to get along. And that comment is directed at my own side as well.
We disagreed on the strategy but agreed on this goal. Let’s acknowledge that, applaud that it was achieved, and try to move forward on gay rights. It would be great if this victory spurred Obama on to fully endorse gay marriage, so that’s something the left should press him on.
agrippa
Well done, WH and Congress!!
Sleeper: people have a right to their opinion and they will disagree.
If I think that you are not making sense, I may decide to tell you that. Or, I may let it go.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Finished a third draft and am sending it out. Started a new play, and discovered I need to go back and do a fourth draft.
Sigh.
gwangung
Frak, yeah.
And folks may still disagree on tactics and strategy in the future, but we gotta remember we’re still after the same damn thing.
dadanarchist
You know, John, I have no problem with your criticisms of the Democratic hardliners (they are hardly “the Left” – we have no substantial Left in this country), but your repeated invocation of that turd of a phrase, “professional left,” is grating. I’m sure that’s the way you intend it, as a provocation, but this is pure Frank Luntz territory, a meaningless focus-tested phrase vomited out by political hacks and apparatchiks. I read this blog because I appreciate your honesty and thoughtfulness.
Thus I find your use of that phrase frankly disappointing. It belongs in the Balloon Juice lexicon along with all the other Orwellian bullshit, not in steady rotation in blog posts.
Maybe I’m missing irony or something…
LikeableInMyOwnWay
It is important that the record of this thread contain this speech from John McCain today, as the vote neared:
You can say what you want about the cowardice of Manchin, and we have … and we can say what we want about the creepiness of John McCain, and I have, at length (I despise the man at a deep level, as most of us do) ….. I just don’t know of any way to process his remarks today. The idea that this man could have been president …. what can you say about it? It’s mind boggling.
amk
@Sleeper: “We disagreed on the strategy”. Really ? Given the amount of vitriol thrown at Obama, Reid etc. who by the way kept telling you all that they are on it ? Even Maddow came out and said the President took a lot of abuse for his strategy from the firebaggers and graciously accepted she herself was wrong and fully credited this DADT repeal to the President.
And yet here you are with your qualified nonapology and passive aggressive shite (“As one of those embittered firebaggers who are the cause of all of the President’s problems”), expect us obamamots to sing kumbaya with you.
gwangung
Dammit. I sure as hell will…as long as everyone remembers that disagreements about tactics does not make people enemies. Remember the lesson.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Cermet:
No I am not saying that. What I am saying is that just as the military would not put a male and a female together in a two person room, nor will they be able to put two gay men or two lesbians in the same two person room. It may very well be as simple as putting a hetro male and a gay male in a two person room etc., I don’t know. I am just saying it is going to take some very subtle chess playing on the part of those that make the decisions as to sleeping arrangements.
jaywillie
@Resident Firebagger: wow…Firebagger is such an accurate name.
The President promised this; he promised to get it done this year in the SotU speech. He spent the last two weeks working the phones of undecided senators to help make it happen.
A lot of people deserve credit for getting this repeal through; that includes the President. That you cannot include him in that list just goes to prove how out-to-lunch the rigidly ideological left has become.
And really…you say the Dems and GOPers who voted to repeal deserve praise and then add:
So what exactly is good enough for you?
Litlebritdifrnt
@toujoursdan:
Sheesh talk about being misunderstood. You do know that they do not have co-ed barracks right? Unless I am mistaken males and females are not allowed to share a room in college dorms. I spoke nothing about segregation. See my post above.
amk
@gwangung: Nope, primary obama crowd intent upon derailing this president even now are no different from the teabaggers. So no touchy feely from me.
jaywillie
@Sleeper: thank the Flying Spaghetti monster he didn’t adopt the strategy of the Firebaggers (you know, the clowns who threatened to primary Bernie Sanders if he voted for HCR and thought it was good politics to attack Lieberman’s wife during that debate). And you’re yet another Firebagger who turns around and criticizes the repeal as being motivated by feeding the war machine with gay soldiers. I hate to break it to you – gay men and women were already dying for our country as members of the armed services.
If you’re sincere about backing off the in-fighting, I think that partly includes the Firebaggers getting a grip and not having a hysterical meltdown every time this President does something and beginning to acknowledge what progress has been made these last two years.
Progress in this country has always taken time; it has always been a multi-generational fight. Equality for African-Americans took until the 1960s and continues to this day; enfranchisement of women was an idea promoted at the country’s founding but didn’t happen until the 19th amendment in 1920; unemployment insurance and retirement insurance were first popularized in this country in the late 19th/early 20th centuries (TR’s Bull Moose campaign was essentially the forerunner to FDR’s New Deal) but it still took 30/40 years to lay the foundation, a foundation that was expanded over subsequent decades.
Progress never comes easy or overnight in the United States. Start recognizing that and the ideological left will start realize a lot more political success.
Yutsano
@gwangung: It’ll get done. Or you’ll die and leave it unfinished and your proteges will declare it your magnum opus and take up the honor of finishing it for you. Hey it worked for Mozart. :)
And you don’t call the football game on one play in the third quarter. That’s why it’s called long ball. Fancy way of saying THIS to your other comment.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Oh, it’ll get done. If it doesn’t get picked up elsewhere, I’ll produce it myself. Should get it going soon, though, before my intended lead actress gets too old (or starts having babies)(doing shows is TOUGH with young kids!).
John - A Motley Moose
@Ana Gama: Another one that isn’t getting the credit he is due is Carl Levin, the head of the Senate Armed Forces committee. He had more to do with the final repeal than Lieberman, but because Levin isn’t a prima donna that has to get in front of every television camera he sees, Lieberman gets the credit.
Yutsano
@gwangung: Damn that dreaded heterosexual reproduction! Always seems to get in the way of things.
Malron
@D-Chance.:
Yeah, hiding in your senate chambers and not doing your fucking job and then blaming it on a family party is exactly like bringing an ex-president in to sub for you at a press conference so you can attend a family function. I’m guessing the “D” in your handle stands for “Dick.”
In other words: fuck you.
dadanarchist
Uhm, did you read what Sleeper wrote? Or just switch immediately into attack mode?
Sly
@jaywillie:
Considering the nom de guerre? President John Edwards.
Tattoosydney
@Yutsano:
I wrote a magnificent octopus once.
Cermet
@Litlebritdifrnt: Really? Why?
As for your belief that gays/military will have problems, when soldiers are in battle, males and females currently are expected to share sleeping areas when necessary and I’ve rarely heard that is a problem.
I’ve been around gays (knowningly) since a teen (nearly fifty years) and the thought that any of them would hit on me didn’t ever occur to me – why would it? I wasn’t gay and knew that there was near zero threat from anyone who was gay. As such, I’ve shared sleeping quarters, showers and many other aspects and never, once either worried about it or was ever hit on.
It is total bullshit to worry about it and the military will never require seperate quarters – that would be saying woman can’t sereve because in battle, seperate but equal dosen’t exist so, since all men are rapist, woman are always attacked and rape. Please, that strawman was disproved back in the sixties (but strangely, some people still say gays can’t teach children! – please what AO’s.)
You need to talk to some of your gay friends – while they’ll laugh at your fear’s, once they realize you are serious, they’ll set you straight (I think that might be a pun … .) Really, ask and they will tell.
DPirate
@Jade Jordan: She got arctic exploration.
amk
dan choi is not happy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lt-dan-choi/congress-repeals-dadt_b_798695.html
What a great spokesman for lgbt cause…. Sheesh, how much more mealy mouthed you could get…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Sly: I quit reading FDL when Christie left (I hope she’s doing well) and every third commenter was given front page privileges, but I don’t recall them being necessarily pro-Edwards. I think the ideal fire-bagger president is a hybrid of Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, who gets elected by winning the eleventy hundred electoral votes of the Left Blogosphere and doesn’t let technicalities like “the Congress” and “the Constitution” get in the way of promulgating enlightened edicts that everyone (Jane Hamsher gave the keys to her blog too) supports.
General Stuck
This repeal gives me a happy. That is all
Yutsano
@Tattoosydney: I’m hoping at some point you’ve eaten one as well. Mmm…tako.
Sly
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Subtle chess playing by straight men who hold all the assumptions and hangups about gay men that many straight men carry around, you mean. Along with all the unaddressed narcissism that those things generally entail.
Which leads me to conclude that the biggest problem that this will produce is this: all the bruised egos of straight male soldiers who are constantly told by gay soldiers that they actually don’t want to fuck them.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Cermet: Did you even read my response? The military will not put two people of the opposite sex in a two people room. Period. The equivalent would be putting two gay people in a room together. Jebus christ on a pogo stick you people who claim to be so intelligent are so dense sometimes. I said in my other response that the solution would be to put a hetro guy in the same room as a gay guy.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Yup. (Now, I shouldn’t mention I have a total, very sexual crush on her–mostly because I know I couldn’t stand living with more than a week. But she’s a total sweetheart who’s capable of more than the vamp roles she’s done so far…)
alwhite
why so much anger, particularly ‘preemptive’ anger. This is a win for the good guys why can’t we just enjoy it? After 8 years of none, there have been too few of these the last two and I suspect a whole hell of a lot fewer for the next couple of years.
I reserve the right to bitch about Obama & about the Blew Dogs in days to come because I expect more from my party and my government. But I understand reality means not getting everything you want when you want it. It would be a whole lot better if we just agreed to ban all the ‘fuck yous’ and agreed that we have to keep fighting and demanding more from politician.
Now I am pissed because you clowns have me sounding like a cross between David Broader and those no label morans.
Yutsano
@gwangung: Meh. Talent and personality often aren’t in the same package. I’d just watch out for the stiletto heels as she walks over you on her way up her career path. Just from that small description she sounds like that type. But a sexual dalliance…it can’t hurt nothin’ could it?
lol
@amk:
“Compromise bill”?
[insert quizzical-dog.jpg]
Anya
Lt. Dan Choi
How has the President politicize the repeal of DADT in the past two years? Are we sure Lt. Choi is not part of the Log Cabin Republicans? Also his assertion that the gay rights movement is fighting for integrity and dignity as apposed to previous fights for civil rights, is weird. All civil rights movements fight for the same thing. Second, as I recall some people who were not satisfied with the pace of change were comparing DADT repeal to the racial integration of the military under President Truman. I don’t get what he is trying to say here.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Oh, no, I totally mean it that she’s a real sweetie. It’s just that she’s a great friend, but she’d be a terrible lover/significant other for ME. Love working with her, love hanging out with her, but we’re skew planes as far as personalities go–no point of connection.
Mnemosyne
@alwhite:
Because we just spent at least three months (and probably more like six) being told that Obama secretly opposed DADT repeal and would never let it pass because he was a bigot who hates gay people.
When people throw completely unfounded insults like that around and then the thing that they swore up and down would never happen because Obama hates gay people actually happens, I think a little gloating about how people like Oscar Leroy and joe beese were 100 percent wrong is in order.
amk
@lol: I know. What can one say ? Probably Mr Choi plans to chain himself again to WH fence, come monday ? What a freak. No wonder the army kicked him out.
Yutsano
@gwangung: Gotcha. The sexual dalliance part still holds though. I guess unrequited lust is a good muse come to think of it. Lord knows I get enough of that.
amk
@alwhite: It’s not pre-emptive anger. It’s gloating with pre-emptive dismissal of these asshats.
Cermet
@Litlebritdifrnt: Yes I read it and assume (and still hope) that you understand putting gay people together in the military generally never results in sexual attacks, period.
While putting young teen males and females together is a bad idea, I have zero concern that the same problems occur for gays.
Sorry, but the sexual dyamnics are vastely different. First, males are generally too equal in strength for an unwilling male to overpower and rape a fellow gay male.
Same for most females even through I’ve never heard of that occuring for females (not that it hasn’t but it must be very rare never to have heard of it all these years.)
Your fears are groundless – the military will not require that you will have to state that you are gay and hence, can never share a room with another gay. Also, I’ve been in the military (as an officer) and only for training did I ever share a room alone with a fellow officer. Generally, most enlisted share rooms with many soldiers, not just one. In the field that differs but you really think that during war and in the field soldiers will be paired to avoid two gays being together? Not likely and no matter, this is a strawman argument. The issue is not an issue – again, ask your gay friends and they will assure you that is not and won’t be a problem.
lol
Here’s the bottom line:
The Professional Left advocated Obama execute the same strategy Clinton did in 1993 where the result was the “compromise” of DADT.
Obama followed his own strategy and the result has been the actual repeal of DADT with the entire military leadership on board for instituting integration.
It’s just another example of the Professional Left preferring the supposedly strong political optics of waving your dick in public over actual results.
Angry Black Lady
@amk: Why does Obama hate intelligent design? He’s up to his old tricks again!
gwangung
@Yutsano: Yeah, I do have daydreams. She DOES rock a pair of stilettos. (Of course, there’s her fiance to think about…who I ALSO like as a friend…).
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well I’m at best average looking and I’ve been hit upon as well. Thanks, no, I’m not gay is all the answer it’s ever taken. I’ve seen many more women have to almost forcefully turn away morons who can’t get the message that they are not anyone’s gift to women.
@Cermet:
Once again you beat me to the punch. And stated it very well.
This is a non problem. Period. There have already been gay people serving in our armed forces for as long as the country has existed. And in our gyms and schools and churches and congress and where you work. And that doesn’t count all those other countries with human beings in them.
Anya
@amk: I see you already posted this. Strange isn’t it?
Yutsano
@gwangung: The layers keep getting deeper…I wonder if there’s the germination of a play here regarding unobtainable women and the Northwest Asian community. I’m just throwing things out there, I’m sure you get your inspirations from many other sources.
freelancer (itouch)
@amk:
He’s almost gone the full Sheehan.
amk
@lol: Makes you want to chain yourself to the WH fence, doesn’t it ? The nutroots have completely made the term progressive as toxic as libruls. Any sane politician will think twice in seeking their chest thumping ‘endorsement’ in future. What a fickle buncha children.
rikyrah
the President’s strategy turns out to have been the right one. if he had done what the outraged left had wanted – Executive Order – that could have been overturned by an unfriendly President. this is law. it’s done. over. period.
Jay C
Not a good day for Sen. McGrumpypants: in addition to the DADT Repeal slipping by him (on its own legs or not);
Senate votes down McCain amendment to START Treaty
More “NOT Good News for John McCain” – what a fine day…..
amk
@Anya: Strange? It’s fucking outrageous given his false accusations. What an uncouth man, gay or not.
amk
@Angry Black Lady: Yes. That’ll be next right wing poutrage, I’m sure. A country full of morans from both left and right doesn’t truly deserve this man.
Anya
@Jay C:
Why do they turn everything into Dem v. Repub? Is it hard to state the fact that if Mcbitter’s ammendment had passed then we have to renegotiate the treaty with the Russians?
@amk: I was more shocked than outraged. The whole rant seems really out of place and weird.
freelancer (itouch)
@amk:
Well, Sully did report that he underwent a nervous breakdown and had himself committed. Huffpo shouldn’t have been publishing him.
Personally, I thought Choi lost his mind and the high ground when he chained himself to the fence. At that point, he was no longer the face of DADT and in the eyes of the public, he became a member of the loony left.
Anya
@Yutsano: Didn’t his wife change her stand and say she supported her husband’s position.
Mike in NC
@Jay C:
Expect to see him blubbering on ‘Meet the Press’ tomorrow now that Orange Boehner and Voinovich have made it acceptable for Republicans to weep in public, sober or not.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: I thought the same thing. Can you imagine the screaming tantrum that woman had to endure?
Yutsano
@Anya: I think she found herself stuck in a hard place between her husband and her daughter so tried to split the difference. The fact that she failed mightily isn’t all that relevant. But she did lend her image to a cause, that says more to me than mere words.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Every time I see her, I wonder what does he hold over her? I doubt that any normal human being is able to love such an unpleasant man. He must be blackmailing her with something.
Tattoosydney
@Angry Black Lady:
Because if god designed everything, then he designed gay people to be gay, which means gay people are good, and Obama hates the gays. Ergo. And ibid.
Steaming Pile
And if I were the President, I would wait until Christmas Eve to sign it in the Rose Garden. An important piece of legislation such as this deserves an equally prominent and easily memorized date of enactment.
FWIW, I would not have bet actual money on this particular thing getting done in the lame duck. I would say this is nothing short of a miracle. I wonder how many souls had to be sacrificed, so to speak (see ‘tax bill’), to get this mission accomplished.
AAA Bonds
John, this would have been a great time for you to have exercised a teensy weensy bit of self-control. Instead, you’re frothing all over yourself, once again, inventing things out of whole cloth to attack imaginary enemies.
Just chill, all right?
ReyOfLight
I can understand Obama-hating from the evil dark side (Repubs, teabaggers, Blue Dog Dems, etc). But hate coming from so-called progressives? They probably aren’t really progressives at all, and should be ignored. Probably teabaggers disguised as liberals. Anyway, to those who say Obama is way down on the list of people to thank for the death of DADT, what, are you on drugs? He is the number ONE person to thank. Do you think for one minute that the chain of events that led us to today would have been set in motion if Obama had not directed it? Just because he’s not out there screaming and shouting for the cause doesn’t mean he isn’t working it behind the scenes. Get a brain people. Do you think the Chairman of the JCS or Secy of Def Gates would have testified in support of repeal if Obama hadn’t signaled to them that’s what he wanted. Do you think we’d be where we are with a President McCain? And to those griping about how long it took, two years is a like a nanosecond when it comes to correcting injustices like this. Hell, it had been in place 15 years before Obama even stepped into the WH. STOP. THINK.
AAA Bonds
Although I do get a good chuckle out of the bizarre collective delusion of the existence of a “Professional Left”, it’s good to remind everybody that you don’t have to invent insidious Reds in order to promote your own point of view. In fact, it’s kind of kooky and off-putting.
Nor do you have to listen intently to the White House Press Secretary and then parrot everything he or she says, just because you like the guy in the White House.
Malron
@Anya: I’m trying to understand why someone is putting a microphone in front of a guy who just a few days ago admitted he had to be committed for having a nervous breakdown. Talk about an unreliable source.
ReyOfLight
@lol: Well said. How do we get the Professional Left to start reflecting our views, rather than undermining our cause with their delusional, impractical rants. Maddow, Olbermann, Schulz — you’ve been warned. Stop attacking the President.
lol
@AAA Bonds:
You haven’t been over to DailyKos today, have you?
For every post celebrating the repeal, there’s two saying “Fuck you Obama”.
See also Choi’s bizarre rant a Huff Po posted above.
Malron
@AAA Bonds: Excuse me, Mr. Denial. When Gibbs threw out the reference to the “Professional Left” many so-called progressives embraced it like a badge of honor. Yet, if John mentions it he’s creating imaginary enemies? Gofuckyourself much?
AAA Bonds
@lol:
Yeah, no, I don’t care about Blog Warz. You can find people on DailyKos who think fluoride is a space alien plot.
@Malron:
So somebody made something up, and then a few people said, “that’s us, we’re that”, and that explains left opposition in the country? Probably not. Although your attitude certainly demonstrates the appeal of that idea to certain people.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Nooooo…..not the Northwest Asian community…just me.
I need to work through my self indulgence phase before I circle back…
Tattoosydney
@Steaming Pile:
That would be disrespecting one of the two holiest of holidays for Christians and the families of all of the Christians in the US, not just the Christians themselves but all of their staff.
Heathen sinner.
AAA Bonds
The true story is that “Professional Left” was cooked up in a board room in the White House as a means to slander fellow Democrats for very obvious political purposes. Every time it’s repeated in a derogatory fashion, whoever says it is acting as a robotic limb of the White House press machine.
And, I mean, you can support the White House, but please, don’t just submit to their media angling.
Admiral_Komack
Joe Manchin Skipped DREAM And DADT Votes For A Christmas Party
Jillian Rayfield | December 18, 2010, 5:42PM
After the Senate broke a GOP filibuster on Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell earlier today, Sen. Joe Manchin released a statement saying he had concerns about the “timing” and “implementation” of a repeal.
But it seems he took even more issue with the timing of the vote itself, seeing as he skipped the vote altogether to attend a Christmas party.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/joe-manchin-skipped-dream-and-dadt-votes-for-a-christmas-party.php
Chickenshit motherfucker.
Tim
Okay, I have been hugely disappointed in and disgusted with Obama over many issues, but regarding today’s vote and the soon to be end of DADT, I say KUDOS, sir Mr. Obama to you and your staff and all others who were behind this victory for civil rights.
That said, I hate that ANYONE, gay or straight, wants to be in the military, but we have the right to serve our masters in the MIC war machine, same as anyone else. :D
Brachiator
Well, I had errands to run, but when I heard that there was going to be a final vote today on DADT at around 3:00 pm, I made sure to keep my portable radio handy to check what was happening.
I am so happy with the result. It is simple justice.
gwangung
@AAA Bonds: Um, no. It may make you feel better, but…no.
AAA Bonds
All of that said, what I actually stepped in to say is that this is a great victory for America and for the cause of human rights.
It’s too bad John couldn’t get two sentences in without attacking the activist groups who helped make this possible.
Everyone likes to quote that FDR story about “make me do it” – and that’s exactly what happened here. Obama wanted to do something; activism in the courts made him have to do it.
It’s a team victory – and splitting it down the middle is going to get us killed in 2012.
amk
@AAA Bonds: I guess if Rahmbo’s definition of the left is used here, you’ll have fainting spells right in front of our eyes.
Yutsano
@gwangung: Paranoia. It’s not just for breakfast and tin foil hat wearers any more.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@AAA Bonds:
Maybe. Or maybe it was an off-hand remark made by a frustrated operative who works long hours, and has been desperately flogged for months by people who think imagined persecution makes them much more important (and interesting) than they are.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
…and since no one can accuse me of stirring up shit when the shit is already stirred, I found this pretty funny
Manic Progressive vs. Obama Supporter
Didn’t JC coin “manic progressive”?
Malron
@AAA Bonds:
You need to be sharing your smugness and nuggets of wisdom at the blogs that are still attacking the president even after he’s achieved what they swore was the most important thing on his plate, not lashing out at John and the rest of us for pointing out their bullshit.
Bmaccnm
“Hey, it worked for Dopey-Changey last week when he ran away from his job, didn’t it? Only bad side-effect: it reminded us of when we had a REAL president in office.”
The fuck are you on about now?
ReyOfLight
The strategy that Obama put together with Mullen and Gates — to undo DADT through the legislative process after obtaining buy-in from the military — was the right one. That is clear now. All the doubters owe Obama and apology. And need to stop their complaining. Get behind the president. We succeed when we stick together.
amk
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: IIRR it was on the wrecklist at gos under the meme punch the DFH or some such silly meme. So, no thanks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Bmaccnm: A couple weeks ago, Bubba came to the White House to voice his support for the tax cut deal, after they answered some questions, Obama left him at the podium in front of the reporters for a while. I figured it was a Xmas present for the old attention junkie. Only one thing he’d have wanted more.
ReyOfLight
To all the real progressives, please ignore the Obama haters — even those claiming to be progressives. They are there only to divide and disillusion us. But we are many and we are strong. And the more we support the president and ignore the distractors (including the whining Professional Left) and haters, the more successful we’ll be going forward.
Bob Loblaw
@Steaming Pile:
That’s retarded. Quick, what day was the fourteenth amendment ratified?! Without google or wikipedia.
Oh wait, nobody cares. Because what mattered is that it got done, not that people threw a supez sweet party afterwards over it.
I’m shocked to see the way cynicism ebbs and flows online. I would have thought more people would have caught onto the mysterious coincidence tying the Republican votes together, especially after the Burr vote.
Something about a date on a calendar, and an event that took place, something like that.
I know people like to idealize legislating into an epic battle of justice and tenacity, but the truth is far bleaker.
As long as the Democratic caucus kept their shit together since the Armed Services committee vote (and they did, as they’ve done more than was expected in the last two years, so congratulations are in order), the bill was a cert. That’s what’s so fucked up about the state of the Senate, right there.
gwangung
Well, actually, ANY strategy that undid DADT was the right strategy. I think people forget there are usually multiple roads to victory…
pattonbt
I am absolutely enjoying eating my plate of crow this morning here in Australia! I was convinced this would not happen. I assumed Lucy (the Republicans) would pull the football once more and we would be left flat and disheartened again.
So to all the Congresspeople, Senators, Defense Department personnel and the Obama Administration for pulling this off (Democrats AND Republicans).
This is a rare, clean, win-win win. I am truly happy today. I am also happy to the McCains of this world butthurt and left on the side of history. An appropriate caption for McCain “Bigoted old man surprised rest of world not old and bigoted”. Suck it McCain and haters.
It’s days like these that that last little sliver of optimism that is buried deep behind my wall of cynicism enjoys the sunshine. It was a long and frustrating ride, but the ends are worth it.
Cheers everyone.
Mike Kay (Team America)
@AAA Bonds:
geez, the day isn’t even over and revisionism is already occuring. the court case was superfluous.
your argument would make sense if Obama started his efforts after the court case, but that is just not the case, as he started ball rolling two years, long before the lower court ruling in september.
It is obama called for the repeal within year’s end during January’s state of the union address. It is obama who crafted the military review that destroyed homophobic myths. It is obama who kept Gates and Mullen and Lieberman in the tent when the netroots wanted them out. And it is obama who recognized the lasting value of overturning the ban though legislation, versus judicial fiat.
activist deserve credit for a variety of reasons, but don’t make it sound like obama was dragged into this at the last second when this has been in the works since his election.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Cermet:
Again Jeebus on a Pogo Stick I am not talking about sexual attacks, I have never been talking about sexual attacks, I have been talking about two people living together in the same room having sex. Be it male and female or two gays, THAT is what I am talking about. There is not an instance where the military will put a male and a female in a room together because the chances that the “friendship” turns to something more is there. That is the same with two gay people. The chances that the two people end up “being more than friends” is there. I am living in a world where noone ever saw “When Harry met Sally” good gawd.
Here is where I am coming from okay? (Full disclosure) When I joined the WRNS I did my basic training and then went to HMS Pembroke for my Writers training. I was in a “mess” with 20 other girls. We had a Chief Wren who was in charge of us. She had her own room at the end of our mess. She was gay, pretty much everyone knew it. She would arrive at our door at 5pm every night and stand there because that is when we would all come back from class and get undressed to change and go to dinner and then the club. Three months after I graduated she was found in bed with an 18 year old student. I have no idea if the student was gay or not, I have no idea if the Chief’s insistance at standing at the door when we were getting undressed was sexually motivated, what I do know is that it made me feel VERY uncomfortable.
I am sure that people here would have a problem if a female officer were able to walk into a shower full of male recruits and stare. I am simply talking about logistics here.
Mike Kay (Team America)
BREAKING NEWS
CNN is reporting that there has been a nation wide run on crow.
bon appetite
LTMidnight
@Mike Kay (Team America):
And Humble Pie is currently selling better than Pumpkin and Apple Pie combined right now.
burnspbesq
@LTMidnight:
Don’t forget the fava beans and Chianti.
burnspbesq
@PanAmerican:
“These holier than thou progressive clowns flop more often and with more histrionics than the Azzurri.”
ROFL. Well played, sir. The Ultras light flares in your honor.
burnspbesq
@jon:
All of that is true. I don’t see anyone suggesting that there isn’t more work to be done. But tonight, we party.
johnny walker
“I’m so sick of all this trolling that I continually incite!” — Cole
Man you really just can’t help yourself.
—
In much more important news, happy DADT repeal everyone. POTUS and plenty of others deserve a pat on the back for this one: Lieberman(?!), Reid, etc. Reid’s prior vote that ultimately failed is being framed in some stories I’ve read as successfully exerting pressure to get the thing done. Something to think about.
fraught
@Omnes Omnibus: “very good looking and extraordinarily well off.” Don’t care how old you are now, what are you doing later?
burnspbesq
@pattonbt:
Good on ya, mate. Hopefully you get an equally big plate of English wickets for dessert.
KDP
@gwangung: I wish you the best on your literary endeavors and pass on the following via a FB post from Gary Farber Important notes on literary legacy with accompanying simple form. You may already have taken this simple cautionary action, but if you haven’t then you may want to protect your legacy. Totally OT, but ….
Also, happy DADT Repeal Day. I like to think I played my own very, very minor part by calling (and encouraging others to call) the Senate Armed Service Committee offices when there was talk of removing the language from the military spending bill. That bill may not have passed cloture, but its demise resulted in this stand-alone repeal.
Also, I think time has come to push for revisions to Senate Rule 22. No more minority rule for either side. Up or down vote to debate.
johnny walker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, it’s more likely the Whitehouse Press Secretary probably just said something off-the-cuff. Those folks aren’t exactly known for coordinating their message before speaking or anything.
slightly_peeved
I live in a country that’s far, far left of where the US is, where over 90% of the population vote, and where due to the lack of a filibuster our government actually functions.
And I think a lot of the people who are disappointed in Obama even in the cases of successes such as this could not name a political leader in the world they’d be happy with. As soon as they went to another country, and started delving in to the negotiations and machinations inherent in any politics, they’d find something to get pissed off about.
So congratulations to Obama and all those Democrats who keep trying to make a unworkable system work.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Litlebritdifrnt: The reason they currently won’t put men and women in the same barracks is because there would be virtually no way of keeping them separated at night. The hormones in the military are pretty high because of the age of the people involved. This involves a group of people where both sides are willing (not everyone, but as the group grows large enough, the probability of a man and a woman wanting to have sex would quickly approach one).
The difference with gays and lesbians is that even if one of them wanted to do it, the other half in the group would be heterosexual and would be opposed to it. And that will either stop it or the person will get discharged for sexual harassment.
To make your analogy correct, gay men should not be allowed to bunk together, especially by themselves. Though having a barracks with gays and lesbians would cut down on military costs.
snarkyspice
@Resident Firebagger:
Oh dear … there’s no hope for you is there? Your short life is destined to be lived in a state of anger and disappointment and then you will die and it will all mean nothing. I hope you’re really young, because if you’re middle-aged and still acting this way, well, that would be a real tragedy.
KDP
@Litlebritdifrnt: I know what you meant after the first clarification. Some people just want to argue for arguments sake.
Hal
@ChrisS
ummm….You said in another thread…
Ron
@lamh32: Saying “Clinton introduced this law” is a pretty weird interpretation of history. In the end, yeah, it was his bill, but he came into office and said he wanted to let gays serve in the military, and Congress went apeshit and the only thing he was able to do was put in DADT which (for those of us old enough to remember) was an improvement over the status quo.
Ron
For those who think John is just hippie-punching with his snark, I point to the very first post that shows up if you go to firedoglake whining that the administration hasn’t yet committed to immediately ending all investigations and discharges under DADT.
patroclus
This is wonderful news! Kudos to all who helped make it happen!!!!!
Tattoosydney
@Ron:
This.
We had a state premier here many years ago who was a master of the long game. He wanted to decriminalise gay sex, but knew it would be difficult, so first he amended the Ant-Discrimination Act making it illegal to discriminate against gay people in work, housing, sale of goods…
Even though gay sex was still a criminal offence, the change in the law lead to such a ridiculous and unsustainable position legally, morally and practically that criminal law reform almost had to happen, and did a year later.
DADT was awful and wrong, but it gave the argument for equality an inherent absurdity (gay people can serve but only if they shut the hell up) to build itself around.
I don’t know if Bill Clinton is as good a long term player as Nifty Neville, but I’m prepared to consider it.
The Raven
It’s not dead yet, you know. It won’t be dead even after Obama signs the bill. Obama, the Secretary of Defense, and the Joint Chiefs still have to certify “That the implementation of necessary policies and regulations […] is consistent with the standards of military readiness, military effectiveness, unit cohesion, and recruiting and retention of the Armed Forces,” and then there would still be a sixty-day waiting period. They can still change their minds. I hope they don’t. Hope and change…I think I remember something about those things…
Meantime, DADT is still in effect. Watch the news and check with Servicemembers Legal Defense Network for updates.
Tattoosydney
@Tattoosydney:
FYWP not letting me edit. Yes, the Ant – Discrimination Act. We had many problems with ants being refused service in bars. Bugger.
The Raven
We corvids are circling…
Croak!
pattonbt
@burnspbesq: I’m in Perth as well but not off to the test today, but have to say I haven’t really warmed to cricket too much. But it would be nice for the home team to do well.
Ron
@The Raven: Yeah, that’s true. But it would be pretty bizarre at this point for any of them to say “We’re not ready” when they’ve all been on the record saying they are.
Triassic Sands
@Sly:
You could be right.
Jaim
John McCain will go down as our version of Orville Faubus.
What a bitter, petulant little husk of a human being he is.
Don K
I would say “what about ENDA?” except I’ll defer to the legislative judgment of the leadership that this is what they could get this year and be pleased that we at least got a win. I recognize that the rest of the wishlist has to wait for another year (or decade, maybe).
I’m retired but have a partner, so full DOMA repeal would benefit me most. Having said that, I’d prioritize ENDA first because it would most benefit the largest number of my brothers and sisters.
By the way, this is one hell of an afterglow…
dadanarchist
This.
FlipYrWhig
@AAA Bonds:
The actual true story is that “professional left” actually refers to the _professional_ left, not the left, on account of the presence of the adjective “professional” modifying the word “left.” If you are not paid for your left-ish opinions, you are not part of the professional left. Declaring yourself a member of the “professional left” because you post comments to a blog is like declaring yourself a New York Jet because you said “Brady sucks” on a Yahoo football discussion board. Get over yourself.
Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom
@Sly: Heh!
Sister Inspired Revolver of Freedom
@Admiral_Komack: I salute your command of scathing epithets, sir.
The Raven
@Ron: “Yeah, that’s true. But it would be pretty bizarre at this point for any of them to say ‘We’re not ready’ when they’ve all been on the record saying they are.”
Sure. Still, there’s always “The Republicans made me do it” (mommy, mommy, it’s his fault) or “see what the liberals made me do” or …
MaskedBandit
Personally, ENDA could have benefited me more directly than repealing DADT. Neither my partner nor I are involved in the military services, but my partner was laid off the Friday before Thanksgiving for being in a gay relationship with me. He was fired without option to rehire for this offense. From speaking with several lawyers, there’s nothing we can do about it. While Ken kept his facebook page posts and information private, the public profile still listed that he was in a relationship with a man. He has since completely privatized his facebook page, but the damage is done.
I do not blame Obama or the Democrats for this. Republicans, however, do earn my ire, as this sort of crap is exactly the sort of thing that they support whole-heartedly. God’s punishment against those not pure enough, delivered by Man’s hand and order.
We don’t have any legal options to pursue against his previous employer. Fortunately, my job is secure for the foreseeable short-term future, so we’re not in danger of losing our house or having no Christmas presents.
Actually, we’re thankful for the state that we’re in, and have been donating as we can to help others less fortunate.
Back to DADT, I am actually very pleased that it did get repealed. While I do not directly benefit, it is invaluable for the partners and spouses of those in the military. That, by itself, is enough: the repeal is worthy legislation. Those couples will still suffer from DOMA, and I’ll be interested in the contortions that politicians will make trying to keep DOMA while minimizing the damage DOMA does to benefits, support, and recognition of same-sex military couples. I hope that the political contortions lead to the destruction of DOMA entirely.
I feverently hope that DOMA gets repealed, but it’s not something that is politically possible yet. Too many who bitterly cling to a god who somehow magically believes the same things they do. The Democrats did well with their short time with the Senate and House, although the gleeful obstructionism from the Republicans brought the tension to a horrible pitch.