Tbogg finds McMegan revisiting the Hayekian principles that led her to support the Iraq War so strongly:
Here’s a taste of some of that reasonable tone, from the Jane Galt days (via Gin and Tacos):
Finally, he (Iraq War opponent James Galbraith) blathers about a possible nuclear holocaust as a result of this invasion, a subject on which he — and I — are thoroughly unqualified to comment. I will nonetheless point out that a scenario in which North Korea nukes us or one of their neighbors in order to revenge Saddaam seems slightly less likely than my winning Fear Factor Miss USA. Then he announces that he has proven — through the miracle of economic science! — that the only solution we can afford is, surprise, the one dictated by Galbraith’s brand of warmed-over 50’s liberal internationalism.
If by “reasonable” you mean “acting like a condescending asshole”, then I guess she’s right.
These shitheads — she’s far from the only one and she wasn’t even especially bad as war bloggers go — who drove our country into the ground are never, ever going to apologize. Not about this, not about the next disaster they help facilitate.
Mike Kay (Team America)
She must be referring to John Edwards shameless, sickening, despicable, lied filled, disgraceful, blood thirsty, warmongering floor speech calling for invasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY6BZgkI0kI
Steeplejack
Dude, linky no work (“via Gin and Tacos”). You fix.
Turgidson
As Dennis G. (I think) pointed out in the Barbour-is-a-racist-scumbag thread, the only real crime is having the shrill temerity to point out how wrong these twits are on everything. Not the Very Serious wrongness itself.
freelancer
We know you’ve apologized, again and again, but this post is begging for someone to go diving into your archives. So you might not be one of “those shitheads”, but were you not a condescending asshole to the anti-war left?
Comrade Kevin
Your Gin and Tacos link comes back to Balloon Juice.
The Grand Panjandrum
Gosh I don’t remember any Republicans questioning the patriotism of war opponents, do you? I mean they would NEVER do that, would they? Say it ain’t so!
The Grand Panjandrum
@freelancer: You might have a point if this were a post from Cole. (Of course, DougJ could be a spoof. One never knows, does one?)
DougJ
@freelancer:
I wasn’t blogging then and I opposed the Iraq War.
Dollared
They don’t remember their feelings being hurt. So it couldn’t have been bad, reallllllyyyyy…
DougJ
@Comrade Kevin:
Thanks, I fixed it.
freelancer
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Oh, fuck me. I read this as one of Cole’s “I’m taking blogging off today” marathon posts. Too late to request deletion. Oh well. Live and learn.
Apologies to DougJ.
agrippa
There were no WMB in Iraq. No casus belli.
It was the height of folly to think that there were. I knew that there were no WMB.
Iraq was in a box, and no way out. Every time Saddam Hussein stuck his head out of the box, just hit hm over the head. Problem solved.
Note: none were found.
And, Iraq is a charnel house.
Pure folly.
TooManyJens
There’s nothing nasty about calling war opponents “objectively pro-terrorist” or the “Hate America First crowd.” Why would you think so?
Cermet
This country has been dying economiclly since the sixties (our advantage of being the only economic super power after WWII that wasn’t badly damaged by the war was squandered by the Korean and Vietnam wars.) Raygun and his morning in amerika cost us far more in the long term and bushwhack the boy toy finished the raygun disaster of destroying our economy. These asswipes now want to argue whether people were being nice in the Iraqi war buildup? 100,000 Iraqi’s (or more) died, far more injuried, their country destoried , we are now a dying superpower and that is what worries them?
The Ithacan
Empires need war the way people need vitamins.
The Villagers won’t apologize because they were “doing the right thing.”
These Imperial wars actually were necessary just not necessary for the reasons the elite punditocracy was claiming as a causus belli.
The Grand Panjandrum
@freelancer: You did notice that “DougJ” hasn’t denied he’s a Cole spoof. Hhhhhmmmmm …. has anyone ever seen those two together? I’m not saying he IS a spoof I’m just saying he hasn’t denied it.
jrg
Yes, because the Iraq occupation was just as much Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton’s fault as it was Dubya and Cheney’s. And Code Pink was burning Ted Nugent CDs while war supporters were being arrested, also, too.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe this shit? Why does McArdle even have a job?
pragmatism
ooooooh dougj, hipster mcsuderman is totes gonna take off his glasses and beat you up. don’t go near the cato bike rack!
Turgidson
@jrg:
Of course the Iraq disaster was Clinton and Carter’s fault. Just as things that happened before Obama was elected or took office were his fault. Duh.
handy
Yeah, Cole was pretty snotty, among others. I suppose “both sides” got pretty testy in the run-up. In any case, McMegan is being pretty disingenuous here, but really, who the hell cares? It’s not like she’s going to apologize for being a such a cheerleader for an obviously illegal, unnecessary immoral war.
Because that would be the reasonable thing to do, now that we all know what we do. And she’d get raked over the coals, too. Deservedly. Like our aforementioned blog host gets on occasion.
The Ithacan
Smedley Butler’s “War is a Racket” puts it this way…
“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. … I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. … Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
beltane
I would love to write a screenplay about of group of elite pundits (Sorry, Megan, you’re not at that level) that are trapped at a Wall Street bankers weekend house in the Hamptons. It will take them a few days to realize they are trapped, and are being held as attractions in a kind of freak show which is when the hilarity ensues.
We need an American Luis Bunel to chronicle the banality of our overlords’ evil.
The Ithacan
From the wiki…
Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940),
nicknamed “The Fighting Quaker” and “Old Gimlet Eye”, was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I. By the end of his career he had received 16 medals, five of which were for heroism. He is one of 19 people to twice receive the Medal of Honor, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal and the Medal of Honor, and the only person to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
When some people attempt to tally up the “nastiness” associated with the Iraq war and the first thing they think of is the civility (or lack thereof) in debating the topic, rather than say the monstrous piles of living, breathing human beings who were turned into charred corpses as a direct result of the war, then I feel that I’m on reasonably solid ground in calling those people sociopathic assholes.
But then maybe I’m just nasty that way.
Cacti
At least we can take comfort in the Democratic Party being right all along.
Imagine if we had topped the 2004 presidential ticket with two supporters of the Iraq War Resolution.
bkny
uh, shouldn’t that be ‘avenge’ … ;-)
also, too, the nyt has a very unflattering photo of john kyl on their front page. he looks like he’s gonna cry that the votes are there for the start treaty.
DougJ
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
There’s that too But even by their own sociopahtic lights, they’re still lying about this tone they think was so important.
Ann B. Nonymous
Molly McButter is playing with her imaginary friends again: Ophelia the bunny, Winston the bear, and Dweezil the icky icky hippie (actually a repurposed GI Joe COINTELPRO doll), who has been very very naughty. Would you like some asparagus tea, Ophelia? Would you like some asparagus tea, Winston? With a little whiskey? just a drop, though. But you, Dweezil, no tea for you, you dirty second hander who went to Berkeley and never said why I waited YEARS for you God damn you I hate you I hate you I hate you Peter’s away after New Year’s.
The Ithacan
Also from the wiki…
Fascinating.
Crusty Dem
While her work is generally noted here for mathematically inaccuracy or general stupidity, I’d say that “acting like a condescending asshole” is the proper tag for McMegan. Though I might eliminate the “acting like” part..
And considering that BJ is pretty much condescending asshole central (I include myself in this), that’s quite an accomplishment.
Mike in NC
@The Ithacan:
Yeah, sure, but Joe Scarborough and Mark Halperin and all the other Villagers would just tell you Smedley Butler was shrill.
The Ithacan
The most charitable view would be that Mc Megan is disabled as a result of her Hashimoto’s thryroiditis.
Symptoms include…
Crusty Dem
FWIW, McMegan’s awesome 2003 anti-anti-war post criticizes Alterman for suggesting the war in Iraq could cost trillions. Favorite McMegan quote (wherein she does some calculations to determine the peak possible cost)? “it would take us over 10 years to get to $2t, thus meeting the ‘trillions’ criteria. Which is madness.”
There it is, possibly the only non-culinary McMegan quote with which I agree. What can I say, I love pink Himalayan salt and $300 drip coffee makers…
Roger Moore
@Dollared:
You have it backward. She remembers her feelings being hurt back then, which is why she thought of the debate as being acrimonious. Now that she looks back, she can see that the anti-war writers weren’t as bad as she remembered them. What she’s failing to notice is just how bad she and the other pro-war writers were.
lamh32
Will this help save face for Manchin?
Manchin Apologizes For Missing DADT Vote To Attend Family Christmas Party
Turgidson
@Crusty Dem:
Good point – condescending dickishness is about 50x harder to deal with when the person exuding that attitude is an ignorant fucking moron. Most of the condescending assholes here at least have more than 2 brain cells to rub together and can string together coherent thoughts.
McArdle, tragically, does not reach those lofty heights. She’s just a stupid twit.
Mrs. Peel
Claiming something was “Done by both sides” is the new wingnut meme for saying “it was totally our fault but you’ll never get us to admit it.”
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Ann B. Nonymous:
Now that’s some quality snark. I might have to put more of that on my Xmas list.
beltane
@The Ithacan: That is a very elitist sounding metabolic disorder. I’ve never heard of a RealAmerican with this syndrome. Fancy pre-existing conditions must be what separates the libertarians from the regular conservatives.
Judas Escargot
@jrg:
Ms. McMegan at least had a few short-term gigs post-MBA, which makes her accomplished by glibertarian standards.
Most of the current young right-wing crop hasn’t accomplished… well, anything, outside of blogging.
freelancer
@Turgidson:
from Griftopia:
Protect the Tone and the Narrative at all costs.
salacious crumb
my worry is that when the new Republican majority comes to House next yr (and their increased numbers in Senate) they and their corporate pud whackers in the media and think tanks are gonna up the ante and threaten to shut down govt if Obama doesnt go do everything short of actually carpet bombing Iran. And one can forget doing ANY negotiations with the Palestinians. bad as things are, things are gonna get much worse in the Middle East. Either Obama folds or government shuts down.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I just remember all protests and criticisms of shrub and the war being met with howls of Anti-Patriotism. Dark times…
MattR
So, the main article at CNN.com currently has this paragraph as a teaser.
I am wondering if Al Qaeda gave up on that plan because they realized that our reaction would have been “again? get those mexicans to wash their hands.”
@Crusty Dem: Which is worse: “It won’t cost trillions” or “The idea that we will be there for ten years is madness”?
The Ithacan
@freelancer
Tone— Genuflection
Narrative— Triumph of Truly Worthy
bkny
@The Ithacan: jesus… all for separate actions.
Dr. Squid
Yeah, because dropping a dime to the FBI on anyone opposed to the war is really reasonable.
Boudica
Hey! I have Hashimoto’s. It’s no excuse for her lack of cognitive skills. (And I can’t believe I have something in common with her.)
Roger Moore
@bkny:
Not to take anything away from Butler, but they were not nearly as strict about the criteria for giving the Medal of Honor back then. According to his Wikipedia article, he tried to give his first MoH back, claiming that he hadn’t done anything to deserve it. The citation for that medal certainly doesn’t look like anything that would qualify for the MoH today.
Chris
The only conservative blog I remember from that time was Bill Whittle’s. He took down all his essays in the meantime, but here (http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/02/confidence-part-iii.html) is a guy who reproduced some of it. Relevant excerpt; after calling the force behind the war protests “lousy stinking commies” and explaining why he revels in the phrase,
Look at the protest signs shrieking WELLSTONE WAS ASSASSINATED! and ONLY SOCIALIST REVOLUTION CAN END IMPERIALIST WAR! These people are not protesting the war in Iraq. What they are interested in is crippling the US. […]
These people are political, economic and cultural failures. They are losers. But they have a secret weapon. If they cannot attack us head on, in open daylight, then perhaps they can erode, decay, and rot our moral foundations slowly, imperceptibly. And they are doing this. And it is succeeding.
If large numbers of our own people can equate The President of the United States with Adolf Hitler, if we actually believe the US is the source of all the misery in the world, if we despise ourselves and our history and expect to be praised for it, if strength and morality and sureness of purpose can be openly mocked as ridiculous anachronisms, if our institutions can be spat upon, our flag burned and our ethics slandered – if all of this can happen, in public, and we simply accept it, then something is indeed very wrong with our foundation and we had better start paying attention to it right quick while we can still save the building.
I also recall him accusing us of being funded by North Korea, though it’s not linked to here. It goes on. It’s not like there was that much more civility.
Keith G
Damn it Doug, don’t be so hard on Megan. If it weren’t for all those libertarian English majors telling us how to think, where the fuck you we be?
joe from Lowell
I was called a traitor.
I was told I hated my country.
I was told I sided with al Qaeda.
I was told I supported genocide and torture.
I was told I was a racist who didn’t think Arabs were capable of democracy.
I was told I celebrated news of young Americans dying violently half a world away.
Like Haley Barbour remembering segregation as “not that bad,” McMegan finds the debate surrounding the Iraq War to be “reasonable” because she was on the giving end.
Amanda in the South Bay
You need a new tag for unapologetic Iraq War types-something like “motherfucking cumwad,” “shitstained fuckface,” etc.
Zuzu's Petals
@TooManyJens:
How about those French “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” ? You know, the ones who turned out to be so sensible after all.
Anne Laurie
@joe from Lowell: __
Bingo. We need a tag for this particular brand of apologetics, because there’s gonna be a metric shit-ton of it during the next 18 months or so.
Tonal Crow
@Cacti:
And imagine if we hadn’t.
Francis
It’s been said about other people, but it applies to her too:
She can’t spare a hand to help others; she needs both for her social climbing.
joe from Lowell
@The Ithacan: I always found it sadly ironic that Butler’s book came out just before the war – World War II – which was so dramatically not cut from the same cloth as the imperialist wars he was criticizing, and as a result, we then went back to waging “splendid little wars” on behalf of America’s economic elite without his book having any effect whatsoever.
Dollared
@freelancer: Wow. Great quote. I’ll add to Taibbi’s fear that the Narrative might break: the fear that in some ways the media was the night watchmen that fell asleep and let the thieves steal all the money the villagers had saved. They really don’t want to face that.
Maude
@Anne Laurie:
There’s already a tag for them. Republicans.
joe from Lowell
There were people who supported the AUMF because they wanted to give Bush more hand in getting Saddam to comply with the disarmament regime, and who didn’t actually understand his intentions.
Which is a bit naive.
But it raises an interesting counter-factual:
It’s early 2002. Kabul has fallen. Bush then uses the enhanced prestige we gained from 9/11 and from routing al Qaeda and the Taliban to get an effective inspections/disarmament regime re-instituted in Iraq, but his ambitions in Iraq were limited to that. Instead of the Iraq War, he keeps his eye on the ball in Afghanistan, sending all the troops needed to Tora Bora, finishing off the Taliban/al Qaeda forces there and killing or capturing bin Laden and Mullah Omar and leaving no reason to linger in that country.
If he’d done that, he would be remembered as the great foreign policy president who put Saddam firmly back in his box, got the inspectors back into Iraq, destroyed al Qaeda and the Taliban, strengthened our relationships with our allies, and set the stage for all sorts of further foreign policy victories.
But he didn’t, because he just isn’t wired that way.
matoko_chan
Yup.
and the conservitards are so motherfucking stupid that they dont see that Assange just junk-punched America in cyberspace i-den-ti-cally to how OBL junk-punched us in meatspace.
Conservatism– where even the smart people are retards.
Nutella
What @joe from Lowell said.
And they’re not going to apologize.
They’re going to prove they were right all along by getting us to invade a fifth country (Iran) to go along with Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and Pakistan. Only by keeping the momentum going can they look forward, not back to the next fun little war.
While cutting frivolous luxuries like Social Security.
Svensker
My favorite part of the Jane Galt quote:
.
Can’t decide whether this is hilarious or makes me want to kill myself. Or maybe kill Jane while laughing hysterically.
I won’t link, you have to scroll down from Doug’s link.
matoko_chan
@joe from Lowell: nope. because that fucking WEC retard Bush was so motherfucking STUPID he thought that when muslims were democratically empowered to vote they would vote for westernstyle jeebus-democracy.
Jokes on him.
History will laugh at Bush.
We spent a trillion dollars and 5k american soljah lives to slaughter 140k muslims and make another islamic state with shariah in the constitution where a WHOLE LOT MORE muslims hate americans.
not to mention A-stan.
joe from Lowell
@matoko_chan: There’s that, and there’s also the way he thinks that national security in the 21st century, after 9/11, is a lot like Risk.
Even after 9/11, Republicans still think that our central national security interest revolves around hostile states. Once we’d captured Kabul, Shrub just didn’t think very much about bin Laden anymore. Which is good, because there was some really important work to be done changing the regime in Iraq.
lol
@Tonal Crow:
Imagine if the Professional Left thought a co-sponsor of the Iraq War was the *real* liberal in the 2008 primary.
Zach
It sort of still blows my mind that 90% or more of folks who run things in this country didn’t believe their lying ears when Hans Blix said he had essentially unfettered, no-notice access to all of Iraq, looked wherever we told him to look, and found nothing. McArdle may find the tone reasonable in retrospect, but even if that were the case (and it wasn’t), that wouldn’t mean that the period was characterized by actual reason.
Does anyone remember how, when Blix delivered his interim report a few weeks before the invasion, all of our attention was diverted to some remote-controlled airplane that Saddam was obviously gonna gift to bin Laden stuffed with anthrax?