I think a lot of the stuff is obvious, but I think it is even more basic than what people would have thought about her out-of-wedlock grandchild. IMHO, if Sarah Palin were black, we wouldn’t even be talking about her, because A.) statistically, there is a pretty damned good chance she wouldn’t be from Alaska, B.) she almost certainly would never have been elected mayor of Wasilla, and C.) if she had been elected Mayor, as a black person she NEVER would have survived these stories about the sports complex and her house.
Hell, survive? She’d probably be in jail.
The Grand Panjandrum
Isn’t having a child and a grandchild about the same age AND still being considered a REAL American by the family values crowd the epitome of White privilege? It makes almost as much sense as “keeping the government out of Medicare”.
Phil Perspective
@The Grand Panjandrum: You are right.
slag
“If you’re white and you don’t admit that it’s great, you’re an asshole!”
That’s exactly how I feel about every woebegone white dude I come across. Every single one of them. I don’t care how poor you are or feel, if you’re complaining about lazy, t-bone-steak-eating people getting your tax dollars and you’re white, you are an asshole. End of story. Asshole.
Mark S.
If Sarah Palin were black, her daughter probably would have been a better dancer.
geg6
Let alone that the 2008 GOP, Bill Kristol, and John McCain would have chosen a black woman as a vice presidential candidate.
Mark S.
@geg6:
Now that would have been mavericky.
Ash Can
This all makes me wonder something else: What if Michelle Obama were white?
Wile E. Quixote
The Republicans, the political party of dumb white trash who vote themselves rich with other people’s money.
Punchy
….and if my Aunt had balls, she’d be my transsexual Aunt. Or something.
Next, can we hypothesize what if Bush were a Democrat, Lance Armstrong was drug-free, and people eating and chewing apples at the next cubicle over isn’t really the most annoying thing EVAH?
RossInDetroit
@geg6:
Condi. Longshot but still possible.
cleek
what a wonderful world it would be
Zifnab25
Unless, of course, her constituency was also largely black. See: Marrion Berry, Al Sharpton, Charlie Rangel, Michael Jackson.
All involved in some scandal or another. All given knee-jerk pardons by their fan base.
Let’s not make the mistake of assuming Sarah Palin is immune to negative popular opinion. She’s just got her crew of fan boys, and that crew happens to have a big media microphone.
trollhattan
She actually reminds me a lot of Michael Steele. She sure has his mad fiscal skilz, although in his defense I don’t get the sense he’s a sociopath.
Mike E
“White people problems.” Louis CK’s bit on cell technology is also spot on: “It’s beaming your message into space, give it a second!” And: “We’re the worst people yet!” He’s a bit manic sometimes, but his shit is gold.
morzer
@cleek:
Are you Mika Brzezinski in disguise?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Let’s talk about John Boehner being both black and orange at the same time.
RossInDetroit
@slag:
I’m not religious but if there was a deity that I could thank for the unearned advantages that gender and race have given me I’d be on my knees morning and night. Life is far from perfect but it would have to get a whole hell of a lot worse before I’d complain.
Mike E
@Ash Can: The GOP right now would be pushing a constitutional amendment to overturn Loving v Virginia
The Grand Panjandrum
Somewhat related: Apparently those poor victims of hate are once again preparing for the fainting couch:
He’s referring to the backpack bomb found at an MLK parade route.
Dracula
What the hell happened to Zifnabs 1–>24?
cleek
@morzer:
i could be.
that’s the fun part of the internet!
Zifnab25
This is my iPhone alias.
slag
@RossInDetroit: I’m with you. Totally. Just admitting that it’s great really isn’t that hard. Too bad more people won’t do it, because there would be a precipitous drop in the asshole quotient in this country if they would.
I have a dream! And in my dream, a whole bunch of white people will one day suddenly stop being assholes!
daveNYC
Given the not-so-subtle racism on view at a lot of the teabagger events, this particular counterfactual is particularly silly.
RossInDetroit
Years ago a conservative college buddy was trying to convince me that minorities were taking over and marginalizing us.
DUDE! We’re white males.
We.
Run.
EVERYTHING!
No response to that.
erlking
@Mark S.: Fuckin’ mavericks! How do THEY work?
Rosalita
OT, but I have to vent. The local paper was tweeting Lieberloser’s presser. I can’t believe he had the balls to say this:
#JoeLieberman: “maybe JFK wouldn’t have fit conveniently into political boxes today either.”
Gah!!
gnomedad
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Butthurt is on Internet Time now. Can’t wait to actually be accused of something. Act fast or the actual victims will soak up all the attention.
geg6
@RossInDetroit:
Nah. She’s never won an elected office in her life and the whole lesbian thing would take her off the table even if the black thing didn’t.
Chyron HR
There’d be a banner ad on the side of the page saying “REPEAL PALIN?”
What’s up with those, anyway? Is that short for “Is there anything in the Constitution that says Congress can repeal a President? If so, please let us know. Very truly yours, Insane Right Wing PAC”
Morbo
WP, oh WP? Where are you to tell us why that Louis CK bit isn’t funny?
Omnes Omnibus
@Dracula: Have you ever seen The Prestige?
Villago Delenda Est
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
He’s a tiger?
He’s an Oregon State Beaver?
Barb (formerly Gex)
These are the people for whom values and morality are sticks to be used to beat the undesirables.
Wiesman
Every time one of my conservative friends says something about Sarah Palin now I just say:
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Mostly it’s just for me.
Chris
Not sure if I’m going to go all the way to that point, because I’ve seen white people reduced to begging-in-the-street utter poverty and I wouldn’t argue there’s that big a difference between them and their nonwhite counterparts. (Particularly since I think the average teabagger would be ready and happy to fuck over these people just so that he could also fuck over their black and Latino counterparts).
As a middle class white male, however, I will readily admit that I’ve got it bloody easy compared to… many, many others, and that those advantages were completely unearned. And for damn certain the average teabagger is either where I’m at or better.
Judy in SD
@morzer: Speaking of Mika Brzezinski this by Stephen Colbert is spot on and hilarious.
Nikki
So, does this mean it’s safe to say that the rules are different for white people who are considered attractive? Quelle surprise.
gnomedad
@The Grand Panjandrum:
The comments there are, um, interesting. An outside agitator cited a long string of attacks and threats against liberals and Obama,to which it was replied that his command of the facts was proof of his bias.
RossInDetroit
@geg6:
I forgot about the Condi gay rumors. I make a point of not paying attention to speculation about people’s private lives but I recall that being talked about.
It is a deal killer. The day the GOP nominates a speculatively gay African American female, Satan will lose a snowball fight.
freelancer
A nation of entitled whiners.
Villago Delenda Est
@Barb (formerly Gex):
The thing about the Puritans is that they fled “religious oppression” in England to start a new life of religious freedom in America.
Well, not really. Their problem with “oppression” was they were not the oppressors, which they proceeded to demonstrate with reckless abandon once they got past the initial starving on the beach stage.
So it is true with the most recent whining babies who are oppressed, the “Christians” in America, who are constantly being rounded up and put in camps for their beliefs by a bunch of jackbooted secular humanists demanding that they use their brains and think.
JRon
@Zifnab25: She IS the white Marion Barry. TNC made the argument many times in the past, and it still resonates.
Citizen_X
@morzer:
No. Too smart.
slag
@Chris:
Yes. There is. And your very next sentence partially illustrates why
The Bobs
You’ve framed it differently, but this is why I always say to people who speak approvingly of Sarah Palin, “Can you imagine what would have been said if Barack Obama had a teenaged daughter that got pregnant out of wedlock?” It just leaves them speechless, because they know very well what would have happened.
ruemara
@geg6:
Lesbian? She’s in a fantasy marriage with GWB. She’s not gay, she’s bloody pining.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
This.
Witness the conservative argument that God “isn’t allowed in our schools anymore” and help, help, they’re being repressed… because teachers are no longer allowed (I should say “expected”) to stand in front of the class and begin each day with an Our Father.
As if they would ever have stood for it for a second if any other religion were granted the same privilege in a public school.
gnomedad
Also, what if Tunch were a JRT?
James Hare
folks on that side would love a black woman with views like Palin. She would instantly absolve them of accusations of racism AND sexism (at least in their own minds).
Captain Haddock
If she was black the same people calling her an idiot now (rightly) would be calling anyone attacking her a racist.
YellowJournalism
@Judy in SD: My jaw dropped during that rant because it was just so, so perfect. “You know…news.”
I wonder if Mika saw it and nodded along the entire time.
Captain Haddock
I’d also add that is she were black Tina Fay wouldn’t be applauded for making fun of her painfully obvious shortcomings.
slag
@Captain Haddock: Asshole.
ruemara
@Captain Haddock:
Dude, if you think her shortcomings would have gotte her where she is, if she were black, you must smoking that haddock.
Chris
@slag:
Point to you.
And it’s also true that even among those poor, prejudices of “at least I’m white” variety can still form.
gnomedad
@Captain Haddock:
Just as the real and imagined shortcomings of the Obamas are off-limits.
suzanne
If Sarah Palin was black, she would be absolutely hated by the white community for having the temerity to own a gun.
RossInDetroit
@Captain Haddock:
Wholly false. For example the criticism of Kwame Kilpatrick, the former mayor of Detroit is coming from all angles and I have yet to hear racism cited as a cause.
The Moar You Know
She’d be enjoying a nice all-expenses paid trip to Gitmo as a “domestic terrorist”, complete with free waterboarding treatments, for the map targeting politicians and the “don’t retreat, reload” remark.
And polls would indicate 90+ percent approval for the government’s actions in sending her there.
Nellcote
@Villago Delenda Est:
I love that they outlawed Christmas.
Brachiator
@Chris:
Ya know, I don’t think this is entirely true. Here is an absolutely true story I saw with my own eyes. I am only sorry I didn’t have my camera with me at the time.
I was walking by the Abercrombie and Fitch store in Pasadena,California. Sitting near the store was an obviously stoned, grungy looking white guy and his girl friend. They were panhandling, and unlike some panhandlers, were not even singing or playing a guitar. Just asking for money. The guy was unsteady and somewhat incoherent. But had he been cleaned up, he would have looked like a seriously cute blonde surfer dude.
The manager of the store came out, looked at the guy, and said that he would think about offering the guy a job if he came back cleaned up, because he had that A&F look. I cannot recall now whether he gave the guy an actual application. What he did not do in any way, shape or form was to ask the kid and his girlfriend to move away from the store.
Actually, the Puritans fled England because they felt that the religious authorities there were not religious enough. That’s the whole point of being “pure.”
morzer
@Judy in SD:
That was my point of reference in teasing cleeka.. I mean Mika.. or do I?
Nellcote
If LaPalin was black would she be a gooper?
RossInDetroit
@Nellcote:
Only if there was a buck in it for her, which is unlikely.
eemom
we can haz “What if Sarah Palin had a dick?” thread plz? kthxbai
Common Sense
What if LBJ were black?
http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/lyndon-johnson-joe-haggar-lbj-orders-some-new-haggar-pants
RossInDetroit
How about:
“What if Sarah Palin were male?”
Who would she be?
If she were black AND male she’d be Michael Steele.
Chris
@Captain Haddock:
It’s an old thought; “OMG it’s so unfair that if anyone criticizes a black person they’re called racists!”
Sometimes true. The thing is, in my experience, that’s never deterred the actual racists from coming out in force. Accusations of racism, very often, aren’t so numerous because they’re being overused as a defense; it’s because there really are that many friggin bigots out there.
I would add that in my observation, Obama’s been far more reticent to use the “waaah, everyone’s mean to me because I’m black!” meme than Palin with the “waaah, everyone’s mean to because I’m a Real American!” meme – one with far less basis in history. Playing the victim card is her stock in trade.
Of course she’d be doing the same if she was black. But if she was black, that wouldn’t have gotten here anywhere near as far as it got her in real life, in which she’s white. Which is our whole point.
slag
@RossInDetroit:
George W Bush but without the fancy job titles. This game’s too easy.
Roger Moore
@eemom:
In that case, all of the right wing writers with suppressed homosexual desires would be talking about how rugged and manly she is. They’d be getting even bigger sparkles about the size of her rifle than they do now.
licensed to kill time
If Sarah Palin were black she’d declare a Day Drank Purple.
Tom Q
@Rosalita: I think Lloyd Bentsen would have the appropriate response to this.
Mark S.
OT–Jonathan Cohn has a good article on the constitutional questions surrounding the health care bill.
Allan
@Captain Haddock:
Obligatory FIFY. You’re welcome
The Moar You Know
@slag: Gotta disagree. I never got the same vibe of psychotic greed from Bush that she radiates in spades. He always has had people he could hit up for money – and they would just give it to him. That’s part of the bennies of being born rich. She’s having to extract it from one mark at a time, and is bitter and resentful that she’s having to run a con the hard way. Her followers sense that rage towards those who have it easier than she does, misinterpret it as populism, and send her money, not realizing that the moment that she hits the big time, she will gleefully sign the orders to have them all sent to the slave camps to build her a temple, or whatever her end goal in all this is.
am
If cheese was made of carrots I wouldn’t be fat.
General Stuck
If Sarah Palin would have been black, we would have Moonbeams instead of Starbursts, and Rick Lowry would be wasting away in an asylum somewhere, jabbering to his pecker.
RossInDetroit
@The Moar You Know:
SP VS GWB:
Reckless hawkishness – check
Dumb – check
Incurious – check
Disdain for intellectuals – check
Impulsive – check
The big difference is that for Bush, born to wealth and influence, success was basically his to lose. SP actually showed some ambition, if not actual hard work, in achieving some of her goals.
Another big difference; Bush seems to be content to let other people make decisions and feed him answers as long as he likes the results. Mavericky Sarah wants to run the whole show. Which is why hers is headed over a cliff at top speed.
Chyron HR
@Captain Haddock:
Sure! Because liberals are always accusing Michael Steele’s critics of being racist, right?
No, wait, that’s never ever happened. My mistake!
slag
@The Moar You Know: I concede the point about Palin’s psychotic greed. And while I’m not convinced that serving half a term as governor of Alaska and taking a ride on the McCain campaign gravy train counts as hard work, there is a class distinction between Palin and Bush that comes into play. She definitely comes off as more trashy and desperate than he does. At this moment in time, anyway.
So, then, I don’t know…Jerry Falwell?
JBerardi
I maintained throughout the entire Bush II presidency that, if he’d been born black, he’d be in jail instead of the White House, and I still think that’s true. I can’t really say that about Palin, however. It doesn’t go far enough. If Palin were black, I suspect she’d be actually dead by now.
Chris
@The Moar You Know:
Wow. I just realized that the whole psychology thing you just laid out is Nixon 2.0. Nixon was driven by the same rage based on the same things, and people were drawn to him for the same reason.
It seems so obvious, I feel like an idiot for not having spotted it sooner. Plenty of people have probably spotted it sooner.
Paris
if Sarah Palin were black … she would have been killed during a botched drug raid where no warrant was issued and no drugs were found.
The Dangerman
If SP was African American, her husband was African American, and they were known to be part of an active secessionist movement (AIP), well, they wouldn’t be shopping at Nieman Marcus (although, given her morals, I could easily see her trying to lift some nice threads).
Chris
@RossInDetroit:
I would agree with this too.
I know someone (a fairly liberal someone) who actually met George Bush in person for a couple minutes and whose assessment was that he wasn’t inherently a bad guy, and probably could’ve been a good one if he hadn’t surrounded himself with the wrong advisers. The stereotypical not-too-bright-guy who fell in with the wrong crowd but never fixed his life because, hey, the wrong crowd made things work out for him.
I don’t see any of that possibly applying to Palin, though.
SRW1
What 86 comments and nobody’s dared to say it:
Self-hatin’ Caucasian!
(with greetings to our self-hatin’ Jewish friends)
bcinaz
IF SP were black, I wouldn’t have a frickin clue who she is, would never have heard of her and she certainly wouldn’t be the public menace she is today.
Angry Black Lady
@Zifnab25: Two things: (1) Sarah Palin (and Michael Jackson) have no constituency — neither are politicians; (2) i’d like to read your statistical survey on the knee jerk pardons of black politicians/celebs by black people. unless you have one, try not to make such sweeping generalizations.
shortstop
My race wasn’t handed to me! I worked damned hard to be white! And I got no help from anybody in obtaining pale skin!
SRW1
If SP were black, she’d never have made it past the local level in politics. There would be to many ‘Whitey’ videos of her.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@Dracula:
What the hell happened to Zifnabs 1—>24?
Hunted down and killed for having silly nicks.
Which is why I have a dummy email address…
blondie
Not to enter an oppression olympics, but if Sarah Palin were fat or not (generally considered) attractive, I doubt she’d have made it into the national spotlight either.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Nikki: No shit, right? We could run the same exercise with any Right Wanker you care to name and the results would be identical.
Wile E. Quixote
@Captain Haddock:
No, if she were black Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle would be applauded for making fun of her painfully obvious shortcomings.
Legalize
Again, back to Chris Rock:
Black people get to say the n-word.
White people get to change interest rates.
Lisa
@shortstop: WIN! lol.
Lisa
@RossInDetroit: Absolutely! I am convinced they are related somehow.
rikyrah
Ta-Nehisi Coates over at the Atlantic nailed her on her anti-intellectualism….and that it has no correspondence within the Black community.
to paraphrase…for someone Black with Palin’s anti-intellectual bent to be a politician…that would mean that Black folks would start electing gangster rappers to political office.
what happens when Sarah Palin is Black?
see Alvin Greene for your answer.