I don’t know why Olbermann was fired/quit, except that I think it’s probably related to the Comcast deal one way or another. But I thought this snippet from the front page of Politico was a pretty good snapshot of where things are.
Reader Interactions
171Comments
Comments are closed.
beltane
That statement is in quotations. Which asshat wrote that?
Hunter Gathers
I think that’s pretty funny, considering that you couldn’t get a majority of Americans to agree that grass is green at the moment, much less agreement on ‘what America should be’.
Fucking chlorophyll, how does it work?
Old Dan and Little Ann
That’s crazy. All I know is Bill Maher just called Obama a Golden Retriever. Ouch. And that he’s done everything to please the republicans other than use bleach. I usually like Maher the stoner, but this annoyed me to no end.
Johannes
It is, of course, possible that this was just KO leaving, or a personality conflict, or whatever. But the timing is damn suspicious, and frankly I’m not feeling too charitable towards our Galtian Overlords. So forgive me if I say, with James Kirk, “Don’t believe them! Don’t Trust Them!”
Cat Lady
This whole country is fucking retarded.
askew
You are just enabling the FDL/GOS crowd with these Comcast conspiracies. As per usual, it is all Obama’s fault.
Does PBS have election night coverage because MSNBC is clearly out with that bozo Cenk being added to the line-up?
There’s a shocker. Another leftie pundit who loves nothing better than to slime Obama. What I wouldn’t give for just 1 left pundit to represent the 90% of Democrats who actually like Obama and other Democrats. Why do all the left pundits echo the same frustrati talking points 24/7?
lamh32
Like I was saying on the other thread. With as much ego and self-importance that Keith O has, do ya think he would REALLY agree to not be on anything other than maybe radio shows until 2013, as AC360 is alleging?
BTW, the best thing about AC360 was having Dave Shuster on at the least trying to defend Keith.
Does anyone know what Shuster has been up to?
Also, would CNN ever consider snapping Keith O up? Aren’t they still number 3?
Cat Lady
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
David Stockman was making so much sense. I think I need some of what Maher’s been smoking.
Martin
I’m not a fan of Olbermann, but his view seems to align quite well with most Americans, according to polls.
Maddow is much more my temperament.
beltane
@askew: Yes, PBS has election night coverage featuring our friend David Brooks and other assorted beltway wankers. But at least PBS is subdued and in good taste.
General Stuck
testing
edit – the only comment I now can get to post on bj is with the word testing. several other comments vanished.
JMY
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
I stopped watching Maher a long time ago.
DougJ DougJson
@beltane:
Indeed.
lamh32
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
Ugh speaking of people I dont’ like Bill Maher is on that list.
A golden retriever…really? Asswipe!
Hunter Gathers
@Old Dan and Little Ann: I wish Maher would pursue his true passion (getting 18 year-olds to fuck him) and kindly shut the fuck up. Or at least go back to making movies, like the Oscar winning Pizza Man.
beltane
@lamh32: Let us be grateful he didn’t refer to the president as a black lab. That would really have been beyond the pale.
AxelFoley
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
Maher’s always talkin shit about Obama, the little bitch ass fucker, only gettin ass because he’s slightly famous.
hilts
@lamh32:
If you pay someone enough money, you could get him to agree to anything. CNN doesn’t have the guts to hire Olbermann.
Violet
Does this mean Olbermann isn’t doing football either? Or is it just politics?
Comrade Luke
@Martin: I’m a fan of a fair amount of what he says, but not at all the way he says it.
MikeJ
@Old Dan and Little Ann: Right. Golden retriever. Because he’s done nothing and republicans love him.
hilts
@beltane:
Perfect title for a Sunday chat show.
General Stuck
This sort of shit is only the beginning. The Pandora’s Box opened by Citizens United, from an already corporate media environment will be changing this country. The pandering to the corporate gawds will be something not scene since the gilded age, and will be even worse until the money spicket into quasi politics/media news and commentary synergism. Welcome to the permanent serenity of the mighty dollar.
edit damn it worked this time.
Rhoda
I don’t think people truly understand that the world changed completely with the Citzens United ruling. I don’t know if the Comcast deal has anything to do with Olbermann or not but I do know they pulled that donation shit with him in November and gave Morning Joe a big pass. They’ve been gunning for him and they got him; on the plus side he probably walked away with a shit load of money. And he seems like good people, if pompous, so I’m sure he’ll land up on his feet.
But in between times, we’ve got the President of the United States putting the head of GE in his new jobs recovery board or whatever the hell it’s called and bowing to Big Money and not trying to mouth populist platitudes because he needs a billion dollars to get re-elected and TRY to get something good for the rest of the country. President Obama is lucky in that it’s harder, with his popularity and lack of Monicas to date, to bring him down. But he has to get on the good side of the money people.
And that’s why this thing with Olbermann is nothing compared to Citzens United.
On the plus side, a lot of the money people have no problems with gays, women, or blacks so hopefully civil rights legislation will move forward and we don’t have to fear Roe v. Wade being overturned. Then again, they might need to appease the rubes.
lamh32
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
Please just tell me that Maddow was not on the panel when maher said that. Cause seriously, if Rachel let something like that pass, then I’d be seriously disappointed.
I don’t watch Rachel religiously, but when I do I have to admit, that she is fair and reasonable in her critics, and she seems to stay away from overheated disrespectful rhetoric.
Old Dan and Little Ann
What can I say? The wife and I like watching Bill Maher on Friday nights. Especially when it’s 7 degrees outside. James Carville had me cracking up last week b/c he’s such a fucking nut job. But tonight Maher’s final diatribe really pissed me off. Douche.
FWIW, Rachael Maddow was on and kicked ass. She actually stood up to make her point aftter the other two guests tried speaking over her for about a 2 minutes.
hilts
Dave Schultheis
Former Colorado State Senator (R): “Olbermann’s views of what America should be differ substantially from those of most Americans.”
Full Quote: “This is a prudent move for MSNBC, if the network wants to regain any sort of credibility and lost viewers. Olbermann’s views of what America should be differ substantially from those of most Americans. In the business world, the method of raising production or stature, is to “lop off from the bottom.” MSNBC has done just that. Hopefully, this signals more to come.”
Nellcote
The new WH press sec. debuts on Wed. I’d love to see the faces as Keith walks in the door with the binder and walks up to the podium and yells “SIKE!”
Southern Beale
Some asshole DJ on a local rock station was talking about our sucky winter weather yesterday and commented, “We should find Al Gore & set him on FIRE.”
Yeah this new civility is teh awesome.
General Stuck
@Rhoda:
great minds and all that. It’s called a BJ mindmeld :)
Southern Beale
Oh and I’m pretty fucking tired of right wingers telling me what “most Americans” think. Fact is, they don’t have a damn clue.
eemom
rumoredly Bill Maher used to date Ann Coulter.
Says a lot about the kind of liberal he is, if it’s true.
(and no, I DON’T want to know which of y’all would fuck Ann Coulter. I REALLY don’t.)
General Stuck
@eemom:
Not moi. I got some standards, though they can be shaky.
Nellcote
@lamh32:
Well, except for that whole firebagger If I Was President This Is The Speech I’d Give thing a while back but generally she’s about the only thing left on MSNBC worth the time.
Hunter Gathers
@eemom: Olbermann used to date Coulter. Maher has her on his show because he wants to bag her. Which is very creepy, in and of itself.
eemom
and as for KO, I do think we should look on the bright side: poor old Somerby haz a happy tonight for the first time in God knows HOW long.
tkogrumpy
K.O. is a carnival barker, the fact that he’s my carnival barker doesn’t change what he is. Disclaimer: I don’t have and don’t often watch cable. He is now very wealthy and will always be able to find a voice somewhere.
Old Dan and Little Ann
@lamh32: She didn’t have a chance. It was his last bit. When he was done he said good night and thanked the panel. Hit and run.
Nellcote
@askew:
Do I even want to know what that’s supposed to mean?
TCG
Yeah it was Prudent to fire Olbermann because he is Mean
Foxnews is far more responsible. Glenn Beck only advocates shooting Liberals in the head.
This is OK because nobody takes him seriously.
eemom
@Hunter Gathers:
fer realz? I’d heard KO was into young chicks. (20’s young, nothing vile)
lamh32
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
That doesn’t surprise me about Maher. He’s a douche!
JMY
@Rhoda:
Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. And it will also include other business leaders, labor, & economists.
I hate when people say he is bowing to corporations. How about he’s trying to get people jobs. And if I’m not mistaken, the donations from big corporations were a small part in how he was elected.
hilts
Doug, you ain’t seen nothing yet. On Monday, Bill O’Reilly will bring out all of the big guns to trash Olbermann: Michelle Malkin, Laura Ingraham, Juan Williams, and Bernie Goldberg. And don’t forget Sean Hannity’s Great American Panel.
Violet
@Hunter Gathers:
I have the hardest time imagining anyone dating Coulter. She seems like a thoroughly unpleasant person. She takes herself extremely seriously and doesn’t seem willing to see anything from someone else’s point of view. Those are qualities that make a relationship very challenging. She doesn’t seem sufficiently attractive to make up for her lack of other qualities. I just don’t get the appeal at all. Why would someone waste their time, except maybe to win a bet?
AxelFoley
@Hunter Gathers:
Say what? Links?
I could see Maher trying to get in her pants, but I thought Keith had some standards.
hilts
@eemom:
Bob Somerby is likely in Intensive Care at this moment because he would have had a heart attack upon receiving this news.
tkogrumpy
@TCG: @TCG: I’ve been posting the video on every wingnut site I can find talking about left wing rage.
hilts
@Hunter Gathers:
I think Olbermann used to date Laura Ingraham not Ann Coulter
Shinobi
Ugh Comcast had these defensive tweets (RT by our friend JonHenke)
Because when I think of trustworthy non self interested groups, I think of major media monopolies.
This is how I picture the management of NBC and Comcast interacting:
Nellcote
@lamh32:
There may be a non-compete clause in the contract. That’s why Shuster was “radio-silent”.
Violet
@AxelFoley:
According to Wonkette, Olbermann dated Laura Ingraham.
Hunter Gathers
@AxelFoley:I was wrong. It was Laura Ingraham. I get the two mixed up. My bad.
lamh32
@AxelFoley:
I think I heard about Bill and Ann C, but I thought he was into Black chicks.
I remember the rumors about him dating Karrine “Superhead” Steffans (all you non-hip hop peeps can google “superhead”, karrine is always the number one link)
Walker
@eemom:
I am not so sure about real life, but he and Ann Coulter are clearly the two unnamed political celebrities holding out in the mansion in World War Z. The two who are supposed to hate each other, but are going at it on the floor as the mansion is being overrun.
AxelFoley
@lamh32:
Yeah, I know about Maher’s wanting to be down with the swirl (never heard about him and Superhead, tho’). Any time he has Amy Holmes on, you can see Bill trying to spit game at her.
I think Maher thinks that because he likes the Round and Brown, he can get away with saying some of the stupid shit he does about black folks sometimes, including the President.
lamh32
BTW, guys, one of the other possible implication of Olbermann leaving MSNBC is that alot of people I know (fellow Afr Am) for what it’s worth, watch MSNBC, and especially Keith O, not so much Rachel.
But I don’t know if MSNBC has that many Afr Am viewers to begin with anyway, but i do know a lot of the personalities that I know really did like Keith O for whatever reason.
AxelFoley
@Violet:
Ok, gotcha.
lamh32
@AxelFoley:
Yeah, that’s been my thinking for a while now.
hamletta
@Hunter Gathers: Easy to do. They were both graduates of the Barbizon School for Blonde Former Prosecutors (h/t Somerby, back when he didn’t suck).
Let’s see if this comment posts!
Wiesman
Maybe he will become the White House Press Secretary, a la Tony Snow.
That would make briefings fun.
(EDITED: Yes, I am joking.)
AxelFoley
@Hunter Gathers:
No worries. It’s easy to get those two mixed up. ;)
Martin
@Comrade Luke: Yes, I would agree with that completely.
Redshift
@Nellcote: It means “turn himself white.”
Texas Dem
FROM MEDIAITE.COM (FWIW): “With Maddow enjoying both immense popularity inside MSNBC and very strong ratings for her Rachel Maddow Show, Olbermann’s invincibility as the heart and soul of MSNBC’s brand became softer. In recent weeks, sources tell Mediaite there have been meetings on the topic of Keith Olbermann and his future at the network. Did Comcast–as many Countdown viewers seem to suspect–order Olbermann out? It appears that the end of the Olbermann era at MSNBC was not “ordered” by Comcast, nor was it a move to tone down the network’s politics. Instead, sources inside the network say it came down to the more mundane world of office politics–Olbermann was a difficult employee, who clashed with bosses, colleagues and underlings alike, and with the Comcast-related departure of Jeff Zucker, and the rise of Maddow and O’Donnell, the landscape shifted, making an Olbermann exit suddenly seem well-timed.”
Bob Loblaw
@Rhoda:
Probably because it didn’t. Funny that. But go on, tell me some soothing lies about the 2008 campaign, for example, a bygone age of simple virtues and honest decency.
As it turns out, the Citizens United ruling didn’t result in a torrent of overwhelming new campaign funding at all. It just allowed rich people to donate anonymously instead of publicly, and reduced the primacy of the national political committees as election gatekeepers. America’s election financing and advertising scheme is no more or less fucked than it was prior to the ruling.
Also, this thread continues to demonstrate the way fanboyism permeates political thinking to an unhealthy respect. Replace the name Obama with Justin Bieber or Joss Whedon and see if the individual posts make any less sense…
hilts
@AxelFoley:
Laura Ingraham is Ann Coulter’s former understudy.
freelancer
@Walker:
Really? I read that scene as Maher and Coulter.
DougJ DougJson
@Bob Loblaw:
It’s usually spelled fanboi, FWIW.
Rhoda
@JMY: Corporations are sitting on trillions in cash; that money’s got to move for the country to move forward. I think it’s crystal clear the financial community has been working in bad faith; that’s not the worst of it. Businesses are pissed off too, Wall Street fat cats aren’t the only ones offended. Corporations are investing overseas; we need them to invest here and that’s what he’s trying to accomplish.
Couple that with the fact that corporate money can freely flow now in local and federal races; he’s got a lot of money lined up against him and no matter what progressive goals he may have he’s got to get some of the money people to sit at the table.
It’s basically the way he paid off Pharma to sit aside; Pharma&Big Insurance was not a winnable fight. Insurance alone, that was a squeaker. So, I’m not saying he’s a corporate poodle. I just think he’s playing the game with the cards he was dealt.
He would be in a stronger position now without Citzens United. But that’s not the world we live in and I think that is why we don’t have a labor leader as a co-chair to this board.
Egos are being stroked. I think it’s better they’re corporate egos than financial ones for the most part. JMHO.
Turbulence
Sorry to be offtopic, but BJ simply MUST have a post about Steampunk Palin.
Jules
Bill Maher can be a douche, but Maddow was brilliant on his show tonight and David Stockman (Regan’s finance guy) said “The Second Amendment is a vestigial relic of frontier farmers three centuries ago. It is as relevant today as chamber pots and the bleeding cure”
If I was Maddow I would have ended up punching Steven Moore in the neck.
tkogrumpy
@Bob Loblaw: I’ll second that last sentence.
eemom
@Redshift:
how’s it going with the bunnies?
eemom
@Walker:
wuzzat? A video game? I hope my son doesn’t have it.
sistermoon
@Hunter Gathers:
Or the critically acclaimed DC Cab (with a supporting cast that included the renowned thespian Mr. T).
hilts
@Jules:
I wonder if Maddow, Tweety, and the other MSNBC hosts will be allowed to give a final shout out to Olbermann or will the management impose a gag rule on them
AxelFoley
@sistermoon:
Hey, now. DC Cab was the shit. A classic from the 80s. I’ll give Maher a pass for that one.
lamh32
I dont’ personally have the stones or the stomach for it, but I would love to know how Fox News is reporting this.
It must be like Christmas over there? Am I right?
Bob Loblaw
@DougJ DougJson:
Hmm, yes. Sometimes I forget what a deep and abiding culture of respect we have for our civil leaders in this country. Certainly no one would ever stoop to characterizing one of our Presidents as some sort of animal to make a political point. Like a chimp, perhaps. Or a pussyhound.
Clearly the maximum offense should be taken, and grievances immediately aired among the community. For great justice.
(This post was dumped in the moderation filter, for whatever reason. Can somebody explain why this filter problem wasn’t a priority fix in the rebuild? Or is WordPress simply unshakable in its shittiness?)
Davis X. Machina
@Wiesman: You may be joking, but they’re not.
Dennis SGMM
Interesting side note to all this:
America’s biggest spender on lobbying merges with one of America’s largest media distributors shortly after SCOTUS decides that companies can spend unlimited amounts on political advocacy – what could go wrong?
AxelFoley
@Davis X. Machina:
Didn’t that place (along with MyDD, Hilary is 44 and FDL) go Galt during the ’08 primaries?
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
I don’t know whether you are a bigger idiot or asshole, or both in extra large
.
And all of it resulted in a 7 to 1 spending advantage per House seat for the repubs in 2010. And in the first election since CU. But the real flood of money will come when the other shoe drops and the SCOTUS overturns ALL donation limits, even for individual candidates. They have equated speech with cash and that precedent will rule the roost, increasing with each new election.
Hunter Gathers
@sistermoon: Say what you will about Mr. T, but his cereal was the shiznit.
fraught
poor Tweety. I’ll bet he thought he’s get the primetime slot instead of O’Donnell. Cannot figure out why he keeps getting passed over for stuff.
hilts
@lamh32:
I think it’s probably more like VE Day over at Fox News.
Nellcote
Fuck Bill Mahr. He’s such a mysoginist he endedup making me feel sorry for LaPalin. And I deeply, deeply resent that.
Nellcote
@Redshift:
That’s what I was afraid of. Fuck Bill Mahr.
Davis X. Machina
@AxelFoley:
Only DU will level with you, and tell you how Obama ordered his sotto capo Immelt to bring him the scalp of one of his prominent real progressive critics, to wit KO, in exchange for which hit he was named to head the jobs-commission-thingy.
Which is why Olbermann would be a perfect replacement for Gibbs. Or something.
It’s a veritable Heinz 57 varieties of real progressives, and more fun than a trip to the zoo. Makes this place look and sound like the Balliol College Senior Common Room.
hamletta
There’s a shockingly sane diary over at GOS from a sometime-employees’ attorney laying out how these sorts of negotiations go, with the nondisclosure and no trash-talkin’ clauses.
hamletta
@fraught: Naw, Tweety’s got Serious Village People Hour.
He’s too good for the plebes in prime-time.
Nellcote
@General Stuck:
And we have corps waiting in the wings sitting on massive piles of cash. What could go wrong.
Davis X. Machina
Apparently the next stop is either Obama’s press secretary (because Bush had Tony Snow) or to take over Katie Couric’s gig when her contract runs out.
The truth is out there — you just have to know where to look.
Ailuridae
@General Stuck:
This Bob is like our other BOB. He feels things strongly and is convinced that in and of itself is a reason to take him seriously even when there is a mountain of evidence indicating he is preposterously full of shit.
Let’s see if he can admit he was just making stupid shit up
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
All I can do is go by the latest research on the subject, rather than going about in pity for myself based on what I wish was true.
And the Wesleyan Media Project has looked deeper into the data on the Citizens United effect on the 2010 midterms and found that it really wasn’t that big a deal. Elections weren’t clean and open in the past, and they aren’t now. It is what it is. You are free to disregard their conclusions.
http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/taxonomy/term/wesleyan-media-project/
Let me guess, this post is also doomed to moderation hell. Why do I bother with this site?
cckids
@Jules:
Ain’t that the truth. He is the type of smarmy, I’m right & you’re wrong, don’t confuse me with the facts conservative who makes me want to throw things. A professional asshat.
Jules
@cckids:
and he has this wet sounding douchbag perv laugh….
wasabi gasp
Countdown to Al Jazeera
TooManyJens
@hilts:
Here’s part of Dave Schultheis’ view of what America should be:
I could not possibly give less of a fuck what he thinks.
handy
@eemom:
It’s a book by Mel Brooks’s son, the guy who also wrote The Zombie Survival Guide. It’s actually pretty good, too.
Villago Delenda Est
The triumph of the Ferengi Controlled Infotainment Networks is not yet complete. Rachel Maddow still has a show.
Mark S.
@TooManyJens:
Oh shit, he’s that asshole?
ETA: It says something about Politico that of the thousands of (former) state reps out there, they solicit his dipshit opinion.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
That study was focused on the types of ads and not on the increase of them and election spending in general, which was increased significantly as compared to even a preceding presidential election campaign. That is the point of CU’s effect I was making and Rhoda. And it’s the first election since CU, and there are still limits on donations in other areas like to individual candidates. It is ludicrous to surmise that CU did not have a fairly large effect in 2010, and will become larger as time goes on in future elections, where the door will be wide open for every type of donation, and anonymously. From your link.
TooManyJens
@Dee Loralei: ::applauds::
freelancer
@Dee Loralei:
Slow Clap.
Paul
This from the AP:
So Erick, Son of Erick, is the voice of moderation?
General Stuck
@General Stuck:
Correction, was referring to ads in senate and house seats, not overall spending in general, which of course is much higher overall with a POTUS election.
Texas Dem
@Paul: Eric the a-hole is a commentator, just like Paul Begala, Carville, and others. He doesn’t host a program on CNN’s prime time lineup, nor is he likely to under present management. My guess is that Keith O wants to start up his own media operation, and take on Arianna’s Huffpo. Given his terrific writing skills and knack for getting under the skin of right wingers, he’d be very good at it.
eemom
@Paul:
he’s an “honest broker,” according to She Who Must Not Be Named Or John Will Ban Your Ass (SWMNBNOJWBYA).
hilts
@TooManyJens:
I was responding to Beltane who asked for the source of the quote.
@Paul – CNN wouldn’t hire Olbermann in a billion years.
Ija
@Bob Loblaw:
And I bet you think that is a good thing, right? Even if Citizens United has no other effect except that (which is highly unlikely, but let’s say that you are right) that will still make it a bad ruling in my opinion. Why is it so important to allow rich people to donate anonymously? Can you tell me that?
TooManyJens
@hilts: Oh, no, I understand. I was just replying because your comment was where Schultheis’ name showed up. Sorry if it looked like I was blaming you for it.
Ija
@Bob Loblaw:
A thread about Keith Olbermann proves that BJ is the hub for Obama fanboi-ism. Not that you are obsessed with finding Obama fanboi-ism or anything, right?
hilts
@TooManyJens:
This incident is further proof that the MSM is an ass. I’ve had my problems with Olbermann, but how the Hell do scumbags like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, and Michael Savage get to keep their jobs?
General Stuck
@Ija:
What is baffling to me, is the concept that democrats supporting a democrat president is “fanboi-ism in the first place. Notwithstanding genuine disagreement on certain actions, and considering the basic fact that any presidents power, especially with congress, has a direct correlation with actual and perceived support, support that is most important from his own party. It is simple common sense, or should be. If you want a president to get stuff done.
Karen
I agree with those who say it’s because Zucker’s gone.
General Stuck
From his farewell tonight. Doesn’t sound like someone who just up and quit to me.
Bob Loblaw
@Ija:
Oh, totally. I’m such a corporate lovin’ right winger and all. I masturbate to the American Crossroads GPS homepage…
No, the hair-pulling fury over some random comment by Bill Maher on his show that nobody watches or cares about, in a thread about Keith Olbermann, gave me that impression. But then again, I’ve never been able to understand the compulsive behavior necessary to post things like this:
And not seeing the similarities to pop cultural slapfights between teenage girls and fanboys online. Being an Obama supporter is not a persecuted position. Obama is a highly successful and popular President, who’s opposition is not broad but deeply polarized. Supporters do not need to carry a chip on their shoulder. But since it’s the internet, grievances need airing immediately and in the most humiliating fashion possible.
srv
Maher a leftie? Sheesh. The guy is a flaming libertarian (he rants that tea party folks are frauds to the cause).
Could you Obamabots at least get your memes straight for one thread?
nestor
@Bob Loblaw:
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.
jwb
@General Stuck: People are unhappy. They want a scapegoat. The President is an easy target.
Now compound that with the fact that the Democratic Party has, for as long as I’ve known it, had its progressive and corporate wings at war with each other. The fanboi comment in that sense is simply another tired sortie in that war.
Still, it needs to be acknowledged, I think, that Obama’s actions since the election have signaled that he will for better or worse be siding with the corporate wing for the next two years. I suspect he sees that as the best way to protect the gains of the first two years of his term.
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
No, it’s ludicrous to conclude that a definitive positive conclusion can be drawn regarding campaign spending and the 2010 midterms that would represent a paradigm shift that would in Rhoda’s terms “change the world.”
The only thing that can be determined is that spending was increased, and therefore the number of ads run was increased. But the efficacy of those ads, and their subsequent ability to manipulate the makeup and sentiments of the voter public, cannot be determined. We know there were more ads. We don’t know that they changed the midterm election results in a substantial way, or merely at the margins. We don’t know whether those new ads convinced Democratic voters to vote Republican, or not at all. It’s not an immediately obvious apocalyptic scenario that will be the ruin of us all.
Corporate money was already able to be used to lie with impunity. Corporate money was already able to be used to purchase and corrupt the media complex. With those two givens already in place, we simply don’t know how much worse the Citizens United ruling made a process that was already broken.
General Stuck
@jwb:
Well yea, and that is my point with CU and the specter of corps in general, getting more attention and extra bennies. Obama and all dems are forced into the corner of money being the mothers milk of politics, if they want to hope for getting elected, and reelected.
And Obama is not immune from that. But glad handing big corps is not the same as selling out to them. I will be very surprised if obama does this in any major way. But who knows? Money is the devils currency, when it now becomes what it will become in politics, even way more than it is currently, with CU, and it’s long term effects.
Nellcote
@Texas Dem:
Considering what KO’s been through the last couple of years, loosing both his parents, a very public white powder envelope faux incident, health issues, and no doubt daily death threats, and considering that radio isn’t in the non-compete/zippered mouth portion of the contract, I think he’s like to be a baseball announcer. And he’d still have time to write a book on the side.
I’ll always appreciate whatever cosmic combo came together to get him on the air. I remember what it was like when Bill Moyers was about the only Liberal journalist, for lack of a better word, regularly on the teevee. Sucked.
hilts
@General Stuck:
Anyone who truly believe that Olbermann quit is in some very deep denial.
Ija
@Bob Loblaw:
100% agree. But being an Obama hater is not a persecuted position either. You have plenty of friends all over the country. So the chip on the shoulder thing applies equally.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
Most folks, and I, agree with Rhoda. That it will change the world, at least our political world in the US. Not all at once, but increasing with each new election. The term “money is the mothers milk of politics” is well worn, because it’s true. You can’t trace every dollar to every vote, and quantify the effects of extra cash in the mix. But you can reasonably predict that those with the most money have an electoral advantage, and that unlimited and anonymous cash will result in corrosive effects of governing and elections. And will increase the power and influence in our political system, for those who have the biggest piles of cash, which are mostly corporate, but also individuals with wealth. It is just stupid to argue otherwise.
srv
As
MSNBCFox Lite ramps up I give Rachel six months. I give Rachel three months before the BJ’ers are emoting about how shrill she is.Nellcote
@jwb:
Maybe he’s just trying to get some jobs happening. Since congress isn’t going to help him do anything, he needs help where he can find it. I love the Prez, but cripes, he’s not superman.
Nick
@AxelFoley:
I remember when Bill Maher said Democrats were cowards because they wouldn’t go on Fox, and then when Obama did it, he said he was “making them relevant” or something like that.
Ija
Among the people who are intend on calling anybody who doesn’t trash Obama Obots or fanboi, I like WyldPirate better. Where is he, BTW? Has he been banned or something?
Ailuridae
I haven’t watched Countdown in a while but am now as it is KO’s last show. Jonathon Alter is on doing the Social Security is a fiscal concern long-term village BS. That’s unfortunate.
piratedan
another thread over @ GOS posits that Olbermann may be returning to sports (linky: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/21/938015/-It-appears-Keith-is-returning-to-sports)
which would allow him to perhaps be the nettle in ESPN’s eye with his old buddy Dan Patrick.
Me, I wish him well, he was damn near the only visible water carrier for the left (or the sane, ymmv) during the Bush debacle and while many didn’t appreciate his style, his voice allowed others to begin to join the chorus.
General Stuck
@General Stuck:
And further. It is true that our system is a broken one, but that it was broken by too much corporate money in the system before CU/ The SCOTUS handed the breakers of that system a sledgehammer to finish that broken system off, for smashing into full subservience to our plutocrat masters.
Bob Loblaw
@Ija:
Did I not just describe him as “highly successful”? Or do you think I’m speaking in code?
It’s entirely possible to believe that the Obama administration is historically accomplished and competent and good in all sorts of ways here in the short run, while still finding areas of dissatisfaction regarding its performance and misaligned (or even malevolent, unfortunately) objectives in the broader long run. That is my position, not some caricature of other posters’ emotionally overwrought, ignorant, and undignified rantings about “worst President ever.”
nestor
@Bob Loblaw:
One might ask the same about birds. What are birds? We just don’t know.
General Stuck
@nestor:
LOL, exactly.
jwb
@General Stuck: No, I don’t see selling out. But he’s far more likely to punch hippies than to take the corporations (or bankers) to task over the next two years. Because his goal is almost certainly to convince the corporations (or at least enough of them) that the Dems have the progressive wing of the party under better control than the goopers have the teabaggers. That’s how he goes about neutralizing Citizens United. (However much we might deplore the ruling, Obama and the Dems have to figure out how to run effectively in that environment, and with the current makeup of the House, nothing is going to change before 2012.)
Mark S.
@nestor:
What is that from?
General Stuck
My brain is tired. Going to bed. Later Alligators.
Xenos
@TooManyJens:
Dead link w/in comments. Who is deleting comments without giving editorial notice? Or is WP getting unstable?
Damn Comcast must be screwing around with the intertubes! First Olberman, now Dee — who is next?
Pooh
Lost in the completely unedifying back and forth between Loblaw and everyone else is the fact that the explanation that Olberman was fired/bought out/whatever because he’s kind of an asshole to work with/for/above and with the rise of Maddow, they just don’t need him anymore is at the very least plausible. The timing remains curious, but it’s certainly the new bosses prerogative to decide that he wasn’t worth the headache.
I mean, I think most people around here agree with KO on the majority of issues, but still think he’s an asshole, and if we live in a world where “good politics” trumps not being an asshole, then we’re all living in the Bush Whitehouse.
ruemara
@Bob Loblaw:
Hey douchebag. Bill Maher calls the President a dog, then insinuates that if he could, he’d make himself whiter to appeal to republicans. If you can’t see why the fuck this would piss off a liberal, a black person or anyone who isn’t blinkered by his own personal distaste for a President Obama, then, well, I believe you may at least want to adjust those blinkers and allow someone elses perspective to come through. Just a touch. So you can avoid castigating people for being fanbois when an obvious nasty slur has been made.
Steeplejack "Jackie Steeps" Steeplejackson
@Xenos:
Something weird is going on. I have tried to reply to the same comment three different times, and my post goes into the ether. As will this one, probably.
nestor
@Mark S.:
Look Around You. First season, ep 3 – Water.
JGabriel
</bl@Bob Loblaw:
Unfortunately, we probably have to discount Wesleyan’s results somewhat — at least to the extent that Wesleyan’s data, like everyone else’s in the field, is compromised by the newly reduced reporting requirements.
.
Xenos
@Bob Loblaw: You are not alone in that position. But any long term progressive strategy is foolish if it takes on Obama directly. There is no decent alternative to Obamaism for the next six years.
Time to play the long game, and develop a way to oppose the corporate state that will finish wrapping up control of the country if the Rs take control of the executive again. To use Matako’s analytical framework, that is the true reiterative game, and they will coopt a permanent Democratic majority with enough time.
Yutsano
@Steeplejack “Jackie Steeps” Steeplejackson: Could be the nym change, if you just did it. Or some other weirdness going on, like the fact that I couldn’t reply link to your comment even though it showed up. Either way FYWP.
Flugelhorn
Reminds me of an oldie but a goodie…
“What do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start”
wengler
150 posts in and no one seems to have mentioned that:
a) Countdown with Keith Olbermann was MSNBC’s highest rated show.
b) This isn’t the first time that MSNBC has canceled its highest rated show.
The last time they did it was a total programming shift in an attempt to go to the right of Fox News mere days before the Iraq War in March 2003. They hired Michael Savage and Alan Keyes and created an “America’s Heroes” wall where people were encouraged to send in pictures of their friends and relatives serving in the war. They got public access channel ratings out of it.
Casting a glance at other Comcast properties, I wouldn’t be surprised if MSNBC ended most of their live news programs and instead becomes a repository for syndicated re-runs of shows like COPS and other reality shows. Live shows cost money, old crappy programming only needs someone to push play.
hilts
@Pooh:
That’s an interesting phenomenon, how many people on the right have ever said they agree with Glenn Beck or Bill O’Reilly on the majority of issues, but still think that they are assholes?
Mnemosyne
@Bob Loblaw:
Uh, Bob? You should probably read your links:
Once again, your inability to comprehend what you read has made you look like a fool.
Julie
Maher actually said something along the line that Obama has done everything he could to please the republicans, short of using bleach, not that Obama should use bleach.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: Self-pwnage, it’s a beautiful thing.
Xenos
@Julie: It is still a stupid comment. While some Republicans are racists the majority of Republicans certainly do not consider themselves to be racists. And while they may be contemptuous of black folks in general they are happy to accept those who think like they do.
It pisses me off when conservatives condemn Democrats as hating the military, wanting to kill cops, and so on. More than anything, it is pathetic – they obviously can’t be bothered to figure out what Democrats and liberals actually think. When jerks like Maher simplify conservative thought to a cartoon-like racism that went out of style 50 years ago, they are doing the same thing. It is stupid.
Flugelhorn
@Xenos: I applaud your thoughtful and reasoned comment.
JGabriel
Xenos:
It’s not in a racist way! They hate poor people too! And the lower middle class!
They hate gay people too! Even when they have money. And no matter what race they are.
So you’re right. It’s completely unfair to portray Republicans as 50’s style racists when they have repeatedly proven themselves to be bigoted in a much more modern and generalized fashion.
Whether or not they consider themselves racist, they’ve made bigotry the center of their appeal for so long that it’s kind of silly for them to complain about it at this point in time.
.
Bob Loblaw
@Mnemosyne:
Sigh. You’re clearly not getting it.
You can prove that there was more money in the system than in previous midterms. You can prove that that money funded more outside political groups who then bought more political ads than in previous midterms.
You can’t prove what effect this spending had on actual voter preferences and willingness to turn out. You can’t prove that the new money has any special ability to redirect the trajectory of an election. You can’t prove that the money can make voters who are predisposed to voting in one partisan pattern all of the sudden switch sides, and you can’t prove that the new funding is capable of reaching and moving independent voters in a way that previous funding and media capabilities were not. You can’t prove any of this. You can only prove that there were more groups and more ads.
It’s entirely possible, in fact likely, that the new funding capabilities won’t produce many voter-side effects at all. That the money’s corrupting influence is on the politician side of the system. That it changes the way politicians run and finance their campaigns, even though it doesn’t produce appreciably different election outcomes vs. the old system. Which means that from a voter’s perspective, the only remedy is to commandeer the primary system or purge private donations altogether, rather than simply demand better disclosure and bitch about the unfairness of corporate privilege.
Christ, for the first time in forever, I’m being the fucking optimist here in saying that Democrats will still win elections across the country without needing to live in perpetual fear of the US Chamber of Commerce, and you guys are still whining.
Corporatism doesn’t spread because politicians are simply self-interested, it does so because politicians are self-destructive. Corporate lobbyists and financiers aren’t superhuman manipulators.
Yutsano
@Bob Loblaw:
Republicans winning back the House on a tissue-paper thin platform based mostly on outside ads scaring older folk about death panels isn’t evidence enough? What do you want, direct vote purchases by corporations or something?
nestor
@Bob Loblaw:
Cool story bro.
Xenos
@JGabriel:
Fair? Who is talking about fairness? At this point would be perfectly fair to accuse republicans of systematic and thorough racism. But it is stupid to talk about their racism as if it were 1960. First, it will get tuned out by them and by any moderate and most leftists, because it is obviously incorrect. Secondly, it does nothing to untangle the Gordian knot of race and class. Until that is hacked through, you are speaking in their terms and to their benefit, no matter what you actually say.
Anne Laurie
@Turbulence: I read your link. Ugh, ugh, and UGH. Of course it’s hardly unexpected, since so many Republicans explicitly want to return America to the Gilded Age (cf Rove’s ‘worship’ of McKinley’s corrupt administration officials), that they’d try to coopt the hip new version of Victoriana in their won inimitably ham-handed fashion!
JGabriel
Xenos:
Fair enough. I initially reacted to your post as if it were arguing to let individual Republicans off the hook for the racism the GOP has courted and inflamed for the past 65 years. I see now that your argument is a little more complicated.
That said, you do realize the Maher is not a progressive or leftist, right? He’s a comedian first, and his politics are more — to use a word that E.D. Kain likes — liberaltarian.
.
Ija
@Anne Laurie:
Wait, let me see if I got this right. So, in the comic, Obama is Palin’s sidekick?
Flugelhorn
@JGabriel: You are an idiot sir. Many Democrats hate gays as well, or am I wrong to suggest that 90% of African Americans vote Dem? The homosexual community is popular with the African American Community? Oh? How about the Hispanic community? Oh? How about those blue collar union members of the Democratic party? Gee…
As a pot smoking, religiously Agnostic, Pro-Choice Republican, I have no problem with homosexuals. You, sir, and most of the moronic people on this blog are generalizing assholes and no better than the demonizing racists you claim to hate.
AxelFoley
@Flugelhorn:
Whoa, are you saying that blacks and Latinos hate gays?
Newsflash, there are plenty of gay blacks and Latinos in both communities, and whose families love them. Just because some black and Hispanic churches might have issues with gays (and that’s many churches in general–black, white, Hispanic, whatever) doesn’t mean you can generalize the black and Latino communities as anti-gay.
That’s the same shit white gays tried to pull over CA’s Prop 8 vote in 2008.
Wiesman
@Davis X. Machina:
Oh, holy hell. Wow.
Nick
@AxelFoley:
I don’t know that the community as a whole “hates” gays, but I knew when gay marriage came up for a vote here in New York, the black churches in Brooklyn and Queens went more apeshit than the white Catholic churches.
Pooh
@Yutsano: You’re basically skipping the analytical step of proving anything with the rather blithe assertion of “based mainly on” – I would have said it had far more to do with the (allegedly for-profit) media environment which mainlined Rick Santelli and Tea Party freaksterism basically since Obama was inaugurated. But that’s just my opinion, and I wouldn’t really claim to have data to back that up empirically, much like Loblaw is saying you don’t have the data to really say that CU was much of a determining factor in the midterms. It’s a fun narrative to say it was, but I’m all for letting facts get in the way of good narratives.
General Stuck
@Pooh:
The point is that the study Loblaw cited didn’t actually say CU was no big deal in 2010. They actually cited actual statistics that show it was a big deal for ad moneys and the number of ads run. Now you could argue there is no relationship between increased ads for one party being made possible by CU, giving that party an electoral advantage, but that would fly in the face of all the other research that says pol ads, particularly negative ones do in fact sway voters opinions and votes. And comparing concentrated pre election advertising with the nebulous rantings of Santelli and coverage of the tea tards, is equally silly.