• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Donald Trump, welcome to your everything, everywhere, all at once.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

This blog will pay for itself.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Bark louder, little dog.

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

The frogs are rarely mistaken.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

Republicans don’t trust women.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Mobile Menu

  • Four Directions Montana
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2024 Elections
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Politics / Glibertarianism / What You Call a Caricature, I Call Reality

What You Call a Caricature, I Call Reality

by John Cole|  February 8, 20116:24 pm| 209 Comments

This post is in: Glibertarianism

FacebookTweetEmail

Not to step on DougJ’s toes, but this part of the response at the League from Jason struck me as odd:

To everyone who eagerly broke out the metaphorical popcorn in DougJ’s comments — I’m sure I could come up with some patronizing questions for you, too. Would you like that? I’m not sure I would, which is why I haven’t, yet. But I’m sure I could.

Sheesh. Why do I bother?

He continues on in the comments:

No, no, no. These are liberals. Let’s try this:

1. When was the last time you condemned Stalin? If it’s been longer than a year, will you now take the opportunity and do so?

2. The individual broccoli mandate: for or against?

3. The last time you bought coffee, was it fair trade? If not, why not? Justify your answer using Rawls’ difference principle.

And so on. Caricature is easy, isn’t it?

Maybe I am missing some polling data, but I guess I’ve just never seen a lot of support for Stalin in the Democratic party, nor any reference to broccoli in the party platform. Granted, I’ve only been a Democrat for a couple years. On the other hand, there is this:

Add to it that some Republican state party platforms explicitly reference evolution. Thinking the majority of Republicans and Conservatives doubt evolution isn’t a smear or an unfair caricature, it’s reality. It’s a sad one, too, because apparently the majority of the population doubts evolutionary theory. And DougJ asking conservatives he thinks are somewhat sane isn’t some kind of personal attack (way to take a compliment there, Jason! We will dutifully add you to the insane/unreasonable list!). On the other hand, pretending there is some teeming mass of liberals pining for the days of Stalin isn’t even remotely plausible. It’s the kind of nonsense gibberish we expect from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and, well, Sarah Palin.

*** Update ***

From the comments here:

This post isn’t really fair.

Jason K. doesn’t “continue in the comments.” He doesn’t present those questions as being the equivalent of “Do you believe in evolution? Has the average global temperature risen over the past 30 years?”

He was replying to someone who posted some questions from Jeff Foxworthy’s “You Might Be a Redneck” book. He isn’t claiming that evolution denying, global warming denying questions stereotype conservatives, but that redneck jokes do.

I’ll agree with that- stating he “continues on” in the comments isn’t really accurate or fair. On the other hand, I just don’t understand why he would associate those things with liberals, anyway.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Another question
Next Post: Open Thread »

Reader Interactions

209Comments

  1. 1.

    Hunter Gathers

    February 8, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Why must you trample on their God given freedom to have small fee-fee’s? You are not advancing the cause of liberty.

  2. 2.

    MobiusKlein

    February 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    I’ll get it out of the way.
    Fuck Stalin. Pol Pot too. Hitler as well. What was the point?
    Individual Broccoli mandate – against.
    Fair trade coffee – often not as good as other coffees, and how can I actually know it’s fair?

  3. 3.

    Kilks

    February 8, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    I just can’t get over how dumb that Stalin question is. Ask some question about banning all guns or something maybe unpopular that maybe a democrat would support. Or extremely high taxes, who knows.

    I mean, really? this is the guy who is reasonable?

  4. 4.

    demkat620

    February 8, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    I forgot to buy my “I condemn Stalin” Button.
    Damn, I knew I was supposed to do something today.

  5. 5.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 8, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Just to be fair, I think JK is continuing on in the vein of DougJ’s questions for conservatives, as his reply is a follow-up to a comment from another LOOG commenter.

    I know, it’s confusing. To clarify his sentence: “No, no, no. These are liberals. [These are further questions they’d ask to embarrass conservatives] Let’s try this:
    1. When was the last time you condemned Stalin? If it’s been longer than a year, will you now take the opportunity and do so?
    __
    2. The individual broccoli mandate: for or against?
    __
    3. The last time you bought coffee, was it fair trade? If not, why not? Justify your answer using Rawls’ difference principle.
    __
    And so on. Caricature is easy, isn’t it?

    The comment he was replying to:

    Have you ever gone to a family reunion thinking that you might find a date?
    __
    Do you find a bug zapper and a six pack to be decent Friday night entertainment?
    __
    Do you have at least one Christmas Ornament made out of a spent shotgun shell?

    So it’s basically “You might be a redneck if” quality.

  6. 6.

    Jay C

    February 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    On the other hand, pretending there is some teeming mass of liberals pining for the days of Stalin isn’t even remotely plausible

    No? Then why won’t they CONDEMN Stalin, huh? Why not?? Why nothing said (and frequently repeated) against one of history’s greatest mass-murderers?

    After all, as Jason says: “These are liberals“….

    ETA: And just to get it out of the way: yeah. Fuck Stalin.
    Fuck him. With a rusty pitchfork. Sideways. Twice.

    OK?

  7. 7.

    gwangung

    February 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Just to be fair, I think JK is continuing on in the vein of DougJ’s questions for conservatives, as his reply is a follow-up to a comment from another LOOG commenter.

    To be fair, it looks like a brain dead continuation.

  8. 8.

    Kilks

    February 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    @MobiusKlein:

    I went on 3 different coffee tours on my time in Costa Rica. Unless they had the most convincing actors, these farmers seemed to be doing alright selling their coffee in the US fair trade. Of course anecdote is not data, so I have no idea about the bigger fair trade operations.

  9. 9.

    jibeaux

    February 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Shows what a bad liberal I am, I don’t think I even know that Stalin was a liberal. Has Jonah explained this yet?

  10. 10.

    BGinCHI

    February 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Libertarians: Can’t we just be disagreeable by disagreeing?

    We only want to disagree.

    We aren’t saying you’re totally wrong, we’re just disagreeing.

  11. 11.

    slag

    February 8, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    @jibeaux: Is it possible they’re confusing Stalin with Lenin? Or maybe Lennon? Hard to tell with these folks.

  12. 12.

    J

    February 8, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Spot on JC. These days those much discussed non-caricatural conservatives are like the Loch Ness monster, Big Foot or a Heffalump, Sightings are v. rare and almost always suspect.

    Here’s the best picture of a non-caricatural conservative I’ve been able to find.

    http://www.isbigfootreal.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/patterson_bigfoot.jpg

  13. 13.

    nestor

    February 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    I’ve been meaning to denounce Stalin. I just never seem to get around to it.

  14. 14.

    Tom Hilton

    February 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    And it’s not just evolution: the list of completely insane beliefs that are held by the overwhelming majority of conservatives (tax cuts increase revenues! church and state are inseparable! more guns = less violence! every sperm is sacred!) is long and depressing. And because most conservatives hold these beliefs, they’re absolutely fair game for questioning the ‘sane’ conservatives.

  15. 15.

    Pooh

    February 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    @jibeaux: He WAS evil. QED.

  16. 16.

    Tom Hilton

    February 8, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    And I think my de facto standard for distinguishing relatively sane/reasonable conservatives from the other kind is whether they join in the loony-bashing (a la Frum, Friedersdorf, Larison) or get all defensive about it (like this guy).

  17. 17.

    Southern Beale

    February 8, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    What about the individual tofu mandate? Huh? HUH? WELL?!

  18. 18.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 8, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    I can’t decide which is stupider, the Stalin thing or the broccoli mandate, but I’m so depressed at the number of Democrats and Indies who don’t believe in evolution that I can’t even laugh at the nitwit.

  19. 19.

    Southern Beale

    February 8, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    @Tom Hilton:

    … the list of completely insane beliefs that are held by the overwhelming majority of conservatives (tax cuts increase revenues! church and state are inseparable! more guns = less violence! every sperm is sacred!) is long and depressing….

    One of my favorites, told me by an actual Republican who campaigned for Fred Thompson: “Black people in America are MUCH better off because of slavery, as they get to live in teh awesome Murka vs the wretched Dark Continent.”

  20. 20.

    Southern Beale

    February 8, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    @Tom Hilton:

    … the list of completely insane beliefs that are held by the overwhelming majority of conservatives (tax cuts increase revenues! church and state are inseparable! more guns = less violence! every sperm is sacred!) is long and depressing….

    One of my favorites, told me by an actual Republican who campaigned for Fred Thompson: “Black people in America are MUCH better off because of slavery, as they get to live in teh awesome Murka vs the wretched Dark Continent.”

  21. 21.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 8, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    @Tom Hilton:

    whether they join in the loony-bashing (a la Frum, Friedersdorf, Larison)

    Careful, Friedersdorf is on record as having great respect for Jonah Goldberg as a writer and a thinker. And Frum referred to Obama as governing during peacetime. Pretty idiotic, the both of them. I don’t know enough about Larison to judge one way or the other.

  22. 22.

    freelancer

    February 8, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Priest of the Free Market: Do you reject Stalin?
    Response: I do.
    Priest of the Free Market: And all his Lefty works?
    Response: I do.
    Priest of the Free Market: And all his empty bank accounts and promises?
    Response: I do.
    Priest of the Free Market: Do you believe in the God the Father, Bankster Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and the balance sheet?
    Response: I do.
    Priest of the Free Market: Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, abhorred socia1ism, was crucified, died, and was buried along with communism, defeated death and moral hazard, rose from the dead and is now seated at the invisible right hand of the Father?
    Response: I do.

    RAMEN, comrade.

  23. 23.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 8, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    @Southern Beale:
    Sadly, yes.

  24. 24.

    gocart mozart

    February 8, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    When was the last time JK condemned Slavery or the Holocaust? If it’s been longer than a year, will he now take the opportunity and do so or should I just assume he is a supporter?

    The above would be a fair equivalent of his Stalin question.

  25. 25.

    slag

    February 8, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    @Tom Hilton: Yeah. But the problem is they often join in the bashing and the loony-ing simultaneously.

    As in: they believe in climate change but also believe that the free market fairy will take care of it. There’s still not a whole lot you can do with that mindset. Other than laugh at it, of course.

  26. 26.

    joe from Lowell

    February 8, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    This post isn’t really fair.

    Jason K. doesn’t “continue in the comments.” He doesn’t present those questions as being the equivalent of “Do you believe in evolution? Has the average global temperature risen over the past 30 years?”

    He was replying to someone who posted some questions from Jeff Foxworthy’s “You Might Be a Redneck” book. He isn’t claiming that evolution denying, global warming denying questions stereotype conservatives, but that redneck jokes do.

  27. 27.

    Tom Hilton

    February 8, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Oh, and one more thing: for 40 fucking years every single liberal in America was required by law* to preface every single public statement with “I condemn Stalin” all because some lefties in the ’30s didn’t think he was as bad as he really was, so I think it’s fair to say that liberals as a group have done enough Stalin condemnation to cover them until the very end of recorded time.

    *Exaggeration for comic effect.

  28. 28.

    joe from Lowell

    February 8, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    @freelancer: In the name of the Friedman, Greenspan, and the Invisible Hand, Amen.

  29. 29.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 8, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    I should add (If Cole’s reading of JK’s response is correct – it’s very unclear), what liberal uses “Rawls’ difference principal” in a sentence? OTOH, I read plenty of conservatards throwing around names like Hayek, Okenshott and Burke like they’re best buds or something.

  30. 30.

    Tom Hilton

    February 8, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    @The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts: My standard isn’t that they reject any and all stupidity (because let’s face it, very few people of any stripe would meet that standard; god knows there are plenty of lefty apologists for Hamsher’s crazy-stupid), but that they reject a good percentage of it. Which distinguishes them from the vast majority of ‘conservatives’, who are driven by tribalism and inchoate rage and thus reject any criticism of any kind of anyone within their tribe.

  31. 31.

    Jay C

    February 8, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    @Tom Hilton:

    So my coda to # 6 was redundant?

  32. 32.

    jrg

    February 8, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Dougj presents them with actual views that are held by the majority of actual fucking Republicans, and the response is “individual broccoli mandates”?

    I’ve got an idea. How about the death penalty for people who have to pull opposition viewpoints directly from their ass because confronting reality is too painful? I’m for that. Seriously.

  33. 33.

    Rayl

    February 8, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    A quibble,perhaps, but an important one. Evolution is not a religion; it is a scientific theory. That means it is a concise and accurate description of a large body of scientific observations. As such it is a useful tool for use in further scientific study and experiment. It is not something to be believed in or not believed in like religion. It is more similar to what a set of tools is to an auto mechanic. It is important because it is useful.

    Don’t think for a minute that a good scientist would not jump at the chance to produce a solid argument showing that the theory of evolution is not correct. That would be a certain road to fame and a Nobel prize.

  34. 34.

    mr. whipple

    February 8, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    @jibeaux:

    Shows what a bad liberal I am, I don’t think I even know that Stalin was a liberal. Has Jonah explained this yet?

    It’s very simple, really. Stalin liked broccoli. Liberals are for the broccoli mandate. Therefor, Stalin is a Liberal, and Liberals are Stalinists.

  35. 35.

    CaptainFwiffo

    February 8, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    The evolution question came up in a Republican presidential primary debate and, IIRC, all but one of the candidates came down on the creationist side of things. This is an actual issue in actual school boards all across the country.

  36. 36.

    kdaug

    February 8, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Damn this shit hurts my brain. Literally. Even “reasonable” conservatives seem to have the most fucked up thought processes.

    Stalin? Seriously? That’s the best you can come up with? You think we’re all pining for the days of the gulag?

    Has the American right been completely subsumed into Glen Beck? Where are the reasonable conservative with whom you can have a conversation anymore?

    I enjoy a good argument. I think that conservative thinkers* probably have some good points to make. I’d like to consider them. But all I’m hearing from the right now is “broccoli”/”Stalin”/”coffee”. What is their argument? What is their plan?

    *Operative word

  37. 37.

    Warren Terra

    February 8, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    The first part (you libtards just LURV Stalin, doncha?) is getting almost all the attention, but parts two and three fail pretty badly as well.

    2. The individual broccoli mandate: for or against?

    Nobody (barring some broccoli farmers) is in favor of an actual “broccoli mandate”. The question is whether such a mandate would be constitutional, not whether it would be desirable. To misunderstand this point is to confuse a cauliflower with a colonoscopy. Maybe next time they do the latter on JK, they can look for his head.

    3. The last time you bought coffee, was it fair trade? If not, why not? Justify your answer using Rawls’ difference principle.?

    It’s supposed to be a liberal position that government regulation may be necessary to protect workers’ prosperity. The idea that market forces will protect workers’ prosperity because consumers will purchase products certified as “fair trade” is a libertarian one, not a liberal one. So this question doesn’t really make any sense – it’s hardly even a policy question to begin with, and neither answering “yes” nor answering “no” necessarily equates to liberalism.

  38. 38.

    Violet

    February 8, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Stalin? WTF? Who the hell supports Stalin? Even if some lefties did so back fifty years ago, who does these days? Stalin? Really? Need new material.

  39. 39.

    kdaug

    February 8, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    For the record, though, I strongly disapprove of the Mongol hordes.

  40. 40.

    joe from Lowell

    February 8, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    @John Cole,

    I’m really not trying to start with you, but…

    On the other hand, I just don’t understand why he would associate those things with liberals, anyway.

    That’s why he wrote “Caricature is easy, isn’t it?” He only “associates” them with liberals to the extent that he recognizes that they are caricatures.

  41. 41.

    General Stuck

    February 8, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    1. When was the last time you condemned Stalin?

    Au Contraire. I personally condemned Stalin last Wednesday. I remember it well, twas a dark and stormy night, and I thoughts to meself, that Stalin, he was such a wanker.

  42. 42.

    Warren Terra

    February 8, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    @gocart mozart:

    When was the last time JK condemned Slavery or the Holocaust? If it’s been longer than a year, will he now take the opportunity and do so or should I just assume he is a supporter?

    I evaluate all of my opinion leaders on the level of sustained outrage they manifest about the Albigensian Crusade.

  43. 43.

    Superluminar

    February 8, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Although JK probably doesn’t know it, his no.3 is actually quite interesting re:what would Rawls do? Are poorer Africans better or worse off as a result of FairTrade?

  44. 44.

    Woodrowfan

    February 8, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    I refuse to denounce Lennon, but I am still pissed at Yoko…

  45. 45.

    Tom Hilton

    February 8, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    @Jay C: Yeah, Hubert Humphrey and Scoop Jackson already covered it.

  46. 46.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    February 8, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    There is no policy content to conservatism, only a series of resentments.

    Evolution isn’t real, Al Gore is fat, cutting taxes increases revenues, the Surge worked, we have always been at war with the individual mandate– on important issue after important issue, Republicans believe things that are objectively false. You lose GOP primaries if you engage in heresy on these points.

    There is no comparison on the left. Maybe some folks lefties profess not to believe that regulations can have unintended consequences, or something, but (a) that’s a more abstract matter, and (b) it’s not a matter of Party doctrine.

  47. 47.

    joe from Lowell

    February 8, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Oddly enough, I condemned Stalin this morning.

    Mrs. joe from Lowell read a headline on Slate about Stalin driving Ukrainians to cannibalism, and had no idea what it meant. I told her about the induced famine, and yes, I was all condemnatory and stuff.

  48. 48.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 8, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    I believe in fucking over, repeatedly with a rusty chainsaw, all authoritarian assholes. Stalin, Hiller, Khomeini, Falwell, Robertson, Mao, Pol Pot, Reagan, Bush I and II, Palin…do I need to go on?

  49. 49.

    John Cole

    February 8, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    @joe from Lowell: But they aren’t even caricatures that make sense, which is the point. I mean, if he had even said “Liberals all want your taxes at 95%,” that would at least have made sense.

    Clearly, caricatures AREN’T easy for him.

  50. 50.

    Mac G

    February 8, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    “individual broccoli mandate”

    What does that even mean? Democrats did not want this subsidized, mandate system but this is what Obama proposed to get GOP support and Corporate Dems on board.

    Most liberals want a single payer system or one with a govt option.

    Republicans politicians are not even trying to get rid of the individual broccoli mandate.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_02/027901.php

  51. 51.

    Nellcote

    February 8, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    I condemn Stalin but what the fuck is an ” The individual broccoli mandate”?

  52. 52.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 8, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    @John Cole:
    Fuckin’ caricatures, how do they work?

  53. 53.

    Cat Lady

    February 8, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    Here’s a question for conservatives – why are you all so fucking retarded? Another question – stupid because you’re conservative, or conservative because you’re stupid?

  54. 54.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    February 8, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    individual broccoli mandate

    Opponents of the constitutionality of the individual mandate have emphasized that upholding the mandate would give Congress the power to mandate virtually anything, including forcing people to eat broccoli. Northwestern law professor Andrew Koppelman appears to agree, but argues that this slippery slope is nothing to worry about:

    One of the most rhetorically effective arguments that has been made against President Obama’s health insurance mandate is that it places us on a slippery slope to totalitarian government. If the federal government can make us buy insurance, what can’t it do?…

    The Broccoli Objection, as I will call it, rests on a simple mistake: treating a slippery slope argument as a logical one, when in fact it is an empirical one.

    This basic point was made long ago in Frederick Schauer’s classic article, Slippery Slopes, 99 Harv. L. Rev. 361 (1985). Schauer showed that any slippery slope argument depends on a prediction that the instant case will in fact increase the likelihood of the danger case. If there is in fact no danger, then the fact that there logically could be has no weight. For instance, the federal taxing power theoretically empowers the government to tax incomes at 100%, thereby wrecking the economy. But there’s no slippery slope, because there is no incentive to do this, so it won’t happen.

    Similarly with the Broccoli Objection. The fear rests on one real problem: there are lots of private producers, including many in agriculture, who want to use the coercive power of the federal government to transfer funds from your pockets into theirs. But the last thing they want to do is impose duties on individuals, because then the individuals will know that they’ve been burdened. There are too many other ways to get special favors in a less visible way.

    The “broccoli mandate” is the Conservative equivalent of the Chewbacca Defense.

  55. 55.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 8, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    @Nellcote:

    The liberals are either going to force you to eat broccoli (that’s George H.W. Bush’s fear) or take it away from you (that’s my fear), or force you to eat it cooked, not raw (my sister’s fear).

    The bottom line is, the liberals are going to do something that will piss you off, be it raise your standard of living at the expense of your Galtian overlords, or allow your children to become educated so that they question your superstitions or, even worse, tell you it’s OK to not feel guilty about how good sex feels.

  56. 56.

    Calouste

    February 8, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    That poll really should have had the question: “Do you believe in creationism?” not “Do you believe in evolution?”. Creationism actually is a believe, evolution is not. I wonder if the results would have been markedly different.

  57. 57.

    trollhattan

    February 8, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    @kdaug:

    For the record, though, I strongly disapprove of the Mongol hordes.

    Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans Mongols ever done for us?

  58. 58.

    RSA

    February 8, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    I guess I’ve just never seen a lot of support for Stalin in the Democratic party

    I think we need to schedule a regular two-minute hate, just in case.

  59. 59.

    trollhattan

    February 8, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    The great thing about wingers is their eagerness to agree with anything fitting into their, uh, belief system while running away at top speed from that which does not. It’s why crap like this gets traction.

    http://www.tnr.com/article/82962/conservatives-economic-chart-fox-de-rugy

  60. 60.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 8, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    You know, gravity is just “a theory”, much like evolution. So, I suggest we toss some of these people who think that “a theory” has no basis in reality out of a helicopter hovering 500 feet above an open field, and we can see just how “theoretical” gravity is.

  61. 61.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    February 8, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    @Calouste: Agreed. Phrasing it as “believing in evolution” is accepting the Creationists’ framing. It’s not a competing belief, it’s a theory with a lot of supporting evidence.

  62. 62.

    General Stuck

    February 8, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    The broccoli mandate could be a knee jerk liberal reaction to George Bush Sr banning it from air force one, and has been an unrequited left wing passion to make broccoli whole again.

    All part of the vegetable culture wars being waged by proxy.

    Beats or Broccoli? you decide.

  63. 63.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Ok, how about these questions for liberals:
    Do you own or have ever owned a Subaru? A Prius?
    Do you listen to “A Prairie Home Companion”? or “Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me”?
    Merlot or Cabernet?
    Do you and your significant other read novels to each other on a long car ride?
    Do you do the New York Times crossword puzzle?

  64. 64.

    Nellcote

    February 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Thanks! I thought it was a tossup between Michelle O’s healthy eating initiative or George HW Bush’s aversion. But now I want to go back to not knowing.

  65. 65.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Talking with a colleague today about this very thing, and mentioned that it would be great to see an SNL skit about a Church of Science where the lead scientist was at the front shouting “Do you *believe* in graviteh! Do you *believe* in relativiteh!”

    And a bunch of white-coated people in glasses shouting “Amen.”

    Comedy gold, I tell you!

  66. 66.

    JWL

    February 8, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    The GOP does not live in fear of political rhetoric, and are a stronger organization for it.

    On the other hand, the democratic party does, and are enfeebled as a result. Just why that is, is something I will never, ever understand.

  67. 67.

    Violet

    February 8, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    @cathyx:
    If you consider that as six questions, I can answer yes to two of them. Does that make me a liberal?

  68. 68.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 8, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    @cathyx: No; no.
    Yes; yes.
    Yes.
    No, I hate being read to.
    In pen.

    How’d I do?

  69. 69.

    Nellcote

    February 8, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    @JWL:

    Just why that is, is something I will never, ever understand.

    For starters, Goopers are never punished for lying while Dems are punished for telling the truth.

  70. 70.

    Jay in Oregon

    February 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    @Xecky Gilchrist:

    Phrasing it as “believing in evolution” is accepting the Creationists’ framing. It’s not a competing belief, it’s a theory with a lot of supporting evidence.

    This makes me want to produce a bumper sticker that says “You may not believe in gravity, but gravity believes in you.”

    Science. It works, bitches.

  71. 71.

    nestor

    February 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Protip: Beyond DougJ®’s questions, nothing freaks out a serious conservative player more than a sadistically prolonged examination of the upcoming Republican presidential primary.

  72. 72.

    Nellcote

    February 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    @cathyx:

    No to all. How depressing. Should I get my ACLU card renewed or something?

  73. 73.

    Violet

    February 8, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    @nestor:
    They’re all far more interested in the VP slate than who will be on the top of the ticket. That’s the tell that they’re really looking to 2016.

  74. 74.

    piratedan

    February 8, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    damn! I guess my publik schoolin’ tawt me wrong, becawse I learnt that Stalin evolved into the King of Russia because they didn’t have a broccoli mandate and that the purge was then brought on because of a bolshivik infection of their bodilee flewids and that if it weren’t for those librul Nazis, they might have taken over the planet at Malta. Thank God for Ronald Reagun and praise Jeebus!

  75. 75.

    Sixers

    February 8, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Isn’t the jury still out on Stalin?

  76. 76.

    slag

    February 8, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    @Nellcote:

    Should I get my ACLU card renewed or something?

    Yes! And be sure to praise Stalin while you’re doing it. I understand that’s the only way a libertarian gets his wings.

  77. 77.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Ok, a few more.
    White mushrooms or morels?
    Do you belong to a book club? Gourmet Club?
    Do you wear clogs?

  78. 78.

    schrodinger's cat

    February 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    I has a better caricature

    Do you wear birkenstocks?
    Drive a Volvo?
    Drink loose leaf tea?

  79. 79.

    slag

    February 8, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: …Have two dogs and one imperfectly proportioned cat?

  80. 80.

    JPL

    February 8, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    @cathyx: Yes, No, No, Yes

  81. 81.

    Sko Hayes

    February 8, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    @cathyx:
    1) No, but I want an Outback. Does that count?
    2) Yes to PHC, and once in awhile to WWDTM. I live in hell (western KS), the public radio station is the only thing worth listening to out here. WWDTM is on the XM NPR channel.
    3)Bourbon
    4)No current SO, but even when there was one, always listened to music.
    5) My dad does, but he’s a Republican. Does that count?

  82. 82.

    Warren Terra

    February 8, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    @The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts:

    Talking with a colleague today about this very thing, and mentioned that it would be great to see an SNL skit about a Church of Science where the lead scientist was at the front shouting “Do you believe in graviteh! Do you believe in relativiteh!”

    It’s been done, sort-of, by Marcus Brigstocke, albeit in the UK and on radio instead of on TV. The prequel to that rant is also worth a listen.

  83. 83.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    I’m having an angst attack because i DON’T KNOW WHAT THE BROCCOLI MANDATE IS@!!@

  84. 84.

    Mike in NC

    February 8, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    @Sixers:

    Isn’t the jury still out on Stalin?

    It would be fantastic to see somebody go on Hannity or O’Reilly and say that with a straight face. Their freakin’ heads would explode.

    I’ll go with “bad, bad man” but at the same time would love to get my hands on a bottle of Stalinskaya vodka (made in Romania) just because it would look so damn cool sitting on my wet bar.

  85. 85.

    DougJ®

    February 8, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    @Superluminar:

    I’m not convinced Fair Trade is such a great model, at least in Africa. I have a friend who works there at an NGO focused on helping farmers make more money off coffee crops and he’s convinced that it’s not, since the price you they get for Fair Trade is much less than if they could increase quality, brand is somehow, and sell it to Starbucks or Stumptown.

  86. 86.

    Mark S.

    February 8, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Do you miss him yet?

  87. 87.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    On the other hand, I just don’t understand why he would associate those things with liberals, anyway.

    Because Scaife or Ailes or one of the other dwarves programmed him that way. Be kind, as he cannot help it.

    OTOH, the fully caffeinated free trade blend I had this morning was excellent.

  88. 88.

    gocart mozart

    February 8, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    I evaluate all of my opinion leaders on the level of sustained outrage they manifest about the Albigensian Crusade.

    The Albigensian Crusade or Cathar Crusade (1209–1229) was a 20-year military campaign initiated by the Catholic Church to eliminate the Cathar heresy in Languedoc.

    Good thing all the Cathars were killed. I would hate to have said the words “Catharic Church” at a dinner party only to have everyone assume I was mocking Asians.

    Too soon?

  89. 89.

    Sko Hayes

    February 8, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Similar to climate change deniers who keep telling us that there’s nothing harmful about carbon dioxide.

  90. 90.

    srv

    February 8, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    You know, as a DFH, even I punch truthers and brocolli lovers, particularly those wearing patchouli.

    There’s a simple reason “real” conservatives don’t exist. Evolution. An internally self-consistent real conservative either has to punch themselves out of existence, or become John Cole.

  91. 91.

    joes527

    February 8, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    @Jeanne ringland: That’s because they passed it WITHOUT ANYONE READING IT!!!

  92. 92.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Thank you so much. I hadn’t heard the broccoli reference before and I thought the guy was kidding.

  93. 93.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    @kdaug:

    Has the American right been completely subsumed into Glen Beck?

    Yes.

    Where are the reasonable conservative with whom you can have a conversation anymore?

    Drinking heavily and cringing.

    Okay, maybe the last bit is just projection.

  94. 94.

    jwb

    February 8, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    @Violet: Time to return your liberal card.

  95. 95.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    @John Cole:

    Clearly, caricatures AREN’T easy for him.

    Drama is easy. Now comedy? Comedy is TOUGH. Just ask Vin Diesel.

  96. 96.

    Citizen_X

    February 8, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    @cathyx:

    Merlot or Cabernet?

    I’m confused by this one. Is one “liberal,” the other “conservative?” Or is it a trick question, as in “If you know what these are, ur a librul eleetist”?

    Because if it’s the latter, I have to call bullshit. (I mean, sorry to get all serious at a joke, but…) It’s accepting right-wing framing. In reality, you can be damn sure that all those motherfuckers at Fox News, and the Kaplan Daily, and on Wall Street know all their wines, and all their scotches, from vineyards and distilleries that you and I have never heard of because they are way out of our price range.

  97. 97.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Maybe it takes a liberal to do a caricature of one. This is too easy.
    Do you have a coexist bumper sticker on your car?
    Do you bring your own cloth bags to the grocery store?

  98. 98.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    1. When was the last time you condemned Stalin? If it’s been longer than a year, will you now take the opportunity and do so?

    Every February 19th I make an ice sculpture of Stalin on my back deck and then smash it to shards while singing the Star Spangled Banner and shouting “HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT, YOU FAT BEARDED BITCH?” I know Stalin didn’t have a beard, but I like that line from Spaceballs, and I’m not a very good ice sculptor so it usually looks like he has a beard.

    Stalin has been dead for nearly 60 years. Even as a sarcastic fake question, the notion that somebody should be tearing out their hair and condemning him on an annual basis is just bizarre. To say nothing of the fact that he wasn’t, you know, liberal.

  99. 99.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    @cathyx: .D o you own or have ever owned a Subaru? A Prius? No, and no.
    Do you listen to “A Prairie Home Companion”? or “Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me”? Moved to the Seattle area in August, can’t find either of these shows. There’s an NPR station but it doesn’t seem to carry PHC.
    Merlot or Cabernet? I’m not drinking no fucking Merlot!
    Do you and your significant other read novels to each other on a long car ride? Sometimes we read Pratchett to each other on a long car ride, until the reader is carsick.
    Do you do the New York Times crossword puzzle? Yes, very slowly.

  100. 100.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    @Citizen_X: Just because they can afford the best doesn’t mean they know anything about it or even have good taste. I learned that from my days working on an estate where the wealthy estate owner wore dated polyester knit pant suits that were completely out of fashion. Money does not breed taste.

  101. 101.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: No, no, yes

  102. 102.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    @Jeanne ringland: You are very much the liberal. You passed with flying colors.

  103. 103.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    @cathyx: Were those ever in fashion?

  104. 104.

    Nick the Australian

    February 8, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    If Stalin is fair game for questioning liberals, then I propose an additional question for conservatives:

    3. When was the last time you condemned segregation? If it’s been longer than a year, will you now take the opportunity and do so?

  105. 105.

    Citizen_X

    February 8, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    @cathyx: That’s my cue to say my one nice thing about Reagan: He did have nice taste in suits.

  106. 106.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    @Jeanne ringland: Unfortunately yes. In the 1970’s. I forgot to add that she’s also frugal.

  107. 107.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    @cathyx: Whew. ;-)

    I’m still a registered Republican … oh, wait. I moved in August and I have to register to vote here. I never changed my registration even though I haven’t voted for a Republican for 30 years, except for a couple of local offices and that was only because every other choice was a loon by comparison. It’s been a strange journey, discovering myself to be a liberal.

  108. 108.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    @cathyx: @cathyx:That lasted about 15 minutes, didn’t it?

    I remember them; I never thought they were fashionable even when they were popular. I think my dad had the only somewhat attractive one in existence, light blue and almost tailored-looking, and I think he wore it 2 or 3 times.

  109. 109.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    i@Jeanne ringland: And what state is your new home in? Is it comfortable to be a liberal where you live?
    I live in the liberal state of Oregon. That’s why it was so easy to come up with my liberal caricature questions.

  110. 110.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    @cathyx: No and yes.

    we also have shopping bags that are made from recycled materials like plastic bags, and we got some of them for free at a city-run health fair.

  111. 111.

    Arclite

    February 8, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    What ARE the equivalent questions to Evo and AGW on the liberal side? What dogma do liberals take at face value that flies in the face of observed reality?

  112. 112.

    Arclite

    February 8, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    @cathyx: When you get married, will you add your spouses last name to yours with a hyphen?

  113. 113.

    Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937

    February 8, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    I always buy fair trade coffee – its delicious. When did Lou Rawls develop a ‘difference principle’?

    Stalin? really?

  114. 114.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    @cathyx: We moved to Woodinville, WA so we’re practically neighbors.

    Yes and no. It’s near Seattle, there are lots of liberals around, but I haven’t found them where I live yet. I’m in a kind of snooty rural neighborhood called Hollywood Hill and they seem to be more conservative than otherwise.
    I haven’t shown my true colors yet at the monthly neighbor ladies’ coffee meeting, I just listen while they feel sorry for Rossi losing to yet another woman (Patti Murray). Then I come home and chuckle.

  115. 115.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    @Arclite: I wanted to do that back when I was a dedicated Republican, 41 years ago, but both our last names are too long.

  116. 116.

    Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937

    February 8, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    I should clarify. I buy fair trade coffee from countries that are geographically as close to me as possible – Mexican and Guatemalan this week. I’m wearing sandals again as soon as the mercury rises above 20 F.

  117. 117.

    Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937

    February 8, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    @cathyx: Cloth bags – for the last 20 years.

    Coexist? No but I had a ‘Visualize Whirled Peas’ that nobody but my wife and daughter understood. Apparently the in laws were very confused by that one.

  118. 118.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Do you own or have ever owned a Subaru? A Prius? A Saab.

    Do you listen to “A Prairie Home Companion”? or “Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me”? Occasionally.

    Merlot or Cabernet? I prefer Syrah.

    Do you and your significant other read novels to each other on a long car ride? No, we both get carsick if we read while in driving.

    Do you do the New York Times crossword puzzle? I did when I used to get the paper copy.

    How did I do?

    ETA: I don’t like Birkenstocks, but I have two pairs of leather flip-flops. I have reusable bags in the trunk of the car, but I forget to bring them in.

  119. 119.

    Donald G

    February 8, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    My answers to Jason’s questions:

    1.) Stalin hasn’t been relevant since the 1950’s. Gorbachev hasn’t been relevant since 1991. What would be the point?

    2.) Irrelevant, since there is no such thing as an “individual broccoli mandate.” It’s a figment of the imagination and not worth wasting time upon.

    3.) I don’t drink coffee, so I don’t buy coffee.

    [Jason’s facts are uncoordinated. He is in error. Nomad must sterilize in the event of error.]

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    February 8, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    This just in: the GOP goal to stupidify the nation is working (Most New York Students Are Not College-Ready)

    New York State education officials released a new set of graduation statistics on Monday that show less than half of students in the state are leaving high school prepared for college and well-paying careers.
    __
    The new statistics, part of a push to realign state standards with college performance, show that only 23 percent of students in New York City graduated ready for college or careers in 2009, not counting special-education students. That is well under half the current graduation rate of 64 percent, a number often promoted by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg as evidence that his education policies are working….
    __
    In the wealthier districts across the state, the news is better: 72 percent of students in “low need” districts are graduating ready for college or careers. But even that is well under the 95 percent of students in those districts who are now graduating.

    The GOP has a dream that one day all students, black and white, rich and poor, will be equally saved from learning about evolution, math, science, and will be judged solely by the lack of content of their intellects.

  121. 121.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    @Jeanne ringland: If those women are feeling sorry for Dino Rossi, then you need to find some new people to hang out with.

  122. 122.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: You prefer Syrah and you have bags in the car but forget to bring them in. You’re getting there. Give it a little more time.

  123. 123.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    @Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937: Good bumper sticker substitute. You pass.

  124. 124.

    El Cid

    February 8, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    There is no need to cite a Gallup poll from 2009.

    The latest poll from Gallup on Americans’ belief or lack of regarding the science of evolution was released December 17th, 2010.

    Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism
    __
    Belief in evolutionary origins of humans slowly rising, however
    __
    PRINCETON, NJ — Four in 10 Americans, slightly fewer today than in years past, believe God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago. Thirty-eight percent believe God guided a process by which humans developed over millions of years from less advanced life forms, while 16%, up slightly from years past, believe humans developed over millions of years, without God’s involvement.
    __
    A small minority of Americans hold the “secular evolution” view that humans evolved with no influence from God — but the number has risen from 9% in 1982 to 16% today.
    __
    At the same time, the 40% of Americans who hold the “creationist” view that God created humans as is 10,000 years ago is the lowest in Gallup’s history of asking this question, and down from a high point of 47% in 1993 and 1999.
    __
    There has been little change over the years in the percentage holding the “theistic evolution” view that humans evolved under God’s guidance.
    __
    Americans’ views on human origins vary significantly by level of education and religiosity. Those who are less educated are more likely to hold a creationist view. Those with college degrees and postgraduate education are more likely to hold one of the two viewpoints involving evolution.

    And there is an important correlation here regarding Republicans and anti-evolution sentiments.

    The significantly higher percentage of Republicans who choose a creationist view of human origins reflects in part the strong relationship between religion and politics in contemporary America.
    __
    Republicans are significantly more likely to attend church weekly than are others, and, as noted, Americans who attend church weekly are most likely to select the creationist alternative for the origin of humans.

    Here is the wording of the survey question:

    Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human
    beings — [ROTATE 1-3/3-1: 1) Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced
    forms of life, but God guided this process, 2) Human beings have developed over millions of years from less
    advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process, 3) God created human beings pretty much in their
    present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so]?

    The “ROTATE” bit is about how they vary the order within which choices from which to select (and in the survey as a whole the order of questions) so as to avoid biases based on the order of appearance.

  125. 125.

    New Yorker

    February 8, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    I’ll answer Mr. Kuznicki’s questions.

    1. Um, I don’t know when the last time I denounced Stalin was. Why, is he a major contributor to the Democratic Party? But, if it makes Kuznicki sleep better at night, I will denounce Stalin as a genocidal tyrant, even though he’s been dead for almost 60 years and probably can’t read this.

    2. What the hell is the “broccoli mandate”? I eat broccoli because it’s good for you. If you want to go on the Rush Limbaugh twinkies diet, be my guest.

    3. Um, I’m not the biggest expert on Rawls, so I’ll just say I buy a cup of coffee each morning from the convenience store next to me. It’s run by Arab Muslims, so I’m doing my part to support the leftist-Islamist alliance to restore the Caliphate that Glenn Beck keeps talking about.

  126. 126.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    @cathyx: I own several Billy Bragg albums.

  127. 127.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:Billy Bragg? You are a radical leftest.

  128. 128.

    cathyx

    February 8, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    @New Yorker: Real liberals don’t buy coffee at a convenience store. Sorry, you fail.

  129. 129.

    lacp

    February 8, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    I completely get the Stalin reference – he was one of the terrifying Liberal Fascist phantoms in Jonah Hawthorne’s classic story, “Young Pantload Brown.”

  130. 130.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 8, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    @cathyx: Nah, I am a center-left liberal with radical leftist musical taste.

  131. 131.

    And the Horse He Rode In on

    February 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    @Cat Lady: John Stuart Mill had these clowns figured out 150 years ago. “Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.”

  132. 132.

    El Cid

    February 8, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    All this talk of liberals and vegetables and nobody mentioned arugula?

    INDEPENDENCE, Iowa — After addressing a question over his decision years ago to stop wearing an American flag pin on his suit lapel, Sen. Barack Obama revisited the topic of arugula during a campaign stop here Thursday.
    __
    His first mention of the leafy green came during the summer as part of his first high-profile visit to an Iowa farm. Then, he posed the following question:
    __
    “Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?” he asked. “I mean, they’re charging a lot of money for this stuff.”
    __
    That comment came despite the fact that Iowa does not have any Whole Foods stores, nor do most of its farmers typically grow any arugula.
    __
    The point the Illinois Democrat and presidential candidate was trying to make then, he said Thursday, was that farm subsidies should not just go to traditional commodities like corn and cotton.
    __
    “Eating habits are changing,” he said.
    __
    Then, he explained that he had been “teased” for previously mentioning arugula.
    __
    “All the national press, they said, ‘Oh, look at Obama. He’s talking about arugula in Iowa. People in Iowa don’t know what arugula is,'” he said. “People in Iowa know what arugula is. They may not eat it, but you know what it is.”
    __
    Well, maybe.
    __
    A highly unscientific survey of three Iowans who listened to Obama’s speech suggested at least some in the crowd were a little confused by the leafy green.
    __
    “I’ve heard of it, but I don’t know what it is,” said Richard Newton, a laborer and volunteer firefighter from Independence. “But I understood what he was talking about.”
    __
    Kay Hoffman, a hospital clinic assistant from nearby Aurora, Iowa, said she had never heard of it before, suspecting it might have something to do with Obama’s Hawaiian upbringing.
    __
    “I don’t know what it is,” she said. “Maybe it’s a Hawaiian thing.”

    Damn, you people are falling down on the job.

    None of you know how to prove that arugula is a foreign Hawaiian illegal immigrant gay food crop by picking out 3 confused looking members in a crowd in order to prove that the leafy green plant which grows rapidly, kills nematodes, and has been eaten for at least several thousand years is part of an arrogant Kenyonesian plot.

  133. 133.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    @El Cid: Most of us wouldn’t stoop to that. We couldn’t do it, my friend.

  134. 134.

    alwhite

    February 8, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    And yet people around here want to pretend the leek of ordinary shlubs is ‘reasonable’ or worth trying to engage in discourse.

    Big surprise, they are either unable or unwilling to consider anything outside their minuscule world view. You might as well discuss Descartes with an ape.

  135. 135.

    South of I-10

    February 8, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Do you own or have ever owned a Subaru? A Prius? I have a Honda Civic

    Do you listen to “A Prairie Home Companion”? or “Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me”? No, but they are not on my local NPR.

    Merlot or Cabernet? Pinot Noir.

    Do you and your significant other read novels to each other on a long car ride? No.

    Do you do the New York Times crossword puzzle? No

    White mushrooms or morels? Can you put that in gumbo?

    Do you belong to a book club? Gourmet Club? We do have what we call our “Suppa Club”, which involves cooking for your friends and lots of wine.

    Do you wear clogs? Sometimes.

    I do live in S. La, so I should get extra points just for being a registered Democrat. I am often referred to as the “bleeding heart liberal” in my office.

  136. 136.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 8, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    I just don’t understand why he would associate those things with liberals, anyway.

    And I do not understand why you would associate creationism or AGW denialism with the League.

    That’s what I was getting at. That was the point of the post.

    This association makes no sense whatsoever to me, particularly given that I’ve said repeatedly how I think humans have been causing the planet to warm, and how I’ve been — I’d thought — very pro-science and anti-religion. So much so that many of our commenters complained about me.

  137. 137.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    @cathyx: I know. I’ve been to exactly one meeting and the lady I liked best is extremely religious, which I am not… at least not like that.

    There may have been other opinions but most of the talking on this subject was done by two out of the dozen of us; one lives next door and was in the construction business and she knows Rossi so yeah, she’s going to feel sorry for him.
    I’m going again this Friday in the hopes that I’ll get some important local info from them. There’s a worry that our dead-end street will have the barricade 1/2 mile away removed and become what it was before, a speedway.

  138. 138.

    Jeanne ringland

    February 8, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    @cathyx: I never ever put bumper stickers on our cars. Old habit born of being the child of 2 public employees and married to one, but I am going to have an A’Tuin on my Escape. Look halfway down the page:

    http://www.nadwcon.org/Merchandise.html

  139. 139.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    And I do not understand why you would associate creationism or AGW denialism with the League.

    Look, I won’t speak for DougJ®, but it seemed that he was doing the opposite of what you think he was doing. He’s trying to find forums where there are “reasonable conservatives”–personally I think he’ll have better luck hunting snipe, but to each his own. He thinks your site is such a forum and so he’s asking those questions to make sure. It’s not a challenge and he wasn’t associating climate denial or science denial with your site, he was trying to make sure that his read on your site was accurate. He could have thought of a better way to do that, but you getting into high dudgeon over it seems excessive.

  140. 140.

    gwangung

    February 8, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    And I do not understand why you would associate creationism or AGW denialism with the League.

    Maybe because folks were associating them with conservatives in general. Which, I think, is a fair association to make. Now, maybe going to the League to get insight on this may gotten things confused (well, I’m pretty sure it did), but it’s entirely a fair thing to try to explore that concerning conservatives.

  141. 141.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 8, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Look, I won’t speak for DougJ®, but it seemed that he was doing the opposite of what you think he was doing. He’s trying to find forums where there are “reasonable conservatives”—personally I think he’ll have better luck hunting snipe, but to each his own. He thinks your site is such a forum and so he’s asking those questions to make sure. It’s not a challenge and he wasn’t associating climate denial or science denial with your site, he was trying to make sure that his read on your site was accurate. He could have thought of a better way to do that, but you getting into high dudgeon over it seems excessive.

    The League contains people of several different political stripes, and of none.

    I asked very purposefully offensive counter-questions to put the shoe on the other foot. I’m glad people HERE got into high dudgeon, at least momentarily. But I’d prefer we engage one another as adults. Can we do that?

  142. 142.

    gwangung

    February 8, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    I asked very purposefully offensive counter-questions to put the shoe on the other foot.

    No, it wasn’t on the other foot. Because various surveys have shown that the majority of conservatives, do, indeed believe those ridiculous things. At best, you made a very poorly crafted response, because you didn’t understand the purpose of the question (part of which may have been the fault of Doug).

    But….do you understand the question NOW?

  143. 143.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    I asked very purposefully offensive counter-questions to put the shoe on the other foot. I’m glad people HERE got into high dudgeon, at least momentarily. But I’d prefer we engage one another as adults. Can we do that?

    I have to say, I didn’t see a lot of high dudgeon over here, but whatever. Whatever dudgeon you managed to generate stemmed mostly from the fact that asking somebody if they’re a closet Stalinist might be just the teensiest bit more offensive than asking them if they’re a creationist. And, you know, not a whole lot of evidence suggesting that liberals are fond of Stalin, whereas on conservatives tending to be GW denialists and creationists there’s a fair bit of data to back that up.

    I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but if I ever do see anything on your site worth engaging with on any level, I’ll try to be adult about it. Cross my heart.

  144. 144.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 8, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    No, it wasn’t on the other foot. Because various surveys have shown that the majority of conservatives, do, indeed believe those ridiculous things.

    As I said, several people at the League do not self-identify as conservatives. I’m one of them. I found it rather offensive to be asked questions like these, particularly when I’d already explained what I thought about them and taken some heat from some of our conservative commenters.

    If you’d called out Redstate or Powerline, it would be entirely understandable. But us? Please. Many of us would have to become conservatives first. (Have you read anything by Lisa Kramer? Or Rufus?)

  145. 145.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    @Donald G:

    Nomad must sterilize in the event of error.

    That is just too Gaia-damned funny.

    This thread is yet another instant classic.

  146. 146.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    If you’d called out Redstate or Powerline, it would be entirely understandable. But us? Please.

    Yes, that’s just it: he wasn’t “calling you out.” You don’t ask those questions of Redstate or Powerline because you already know what the answers will be.

  147. 147.

    MattR

    February 8, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    If you’d called out Redstate or Powerline, it would be entirely understandable. But us? Please.

    And I think this is the fundamental misunderstanding. If DougJ was “calling you out” in any way it was to offer kudos and separate you from blogs like Redstate or Powerline.

  148. 148.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    But I’d prefer we engage one another as adults. Can we do that?

    You’re new here, aincha?

  149. 149.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 8, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Yes, that’s just it: he wasn’t “calling you out.” You don’t ask those questions of Redstate or Powerline because you already know what the answers will be.

    The idea that it was some sort of difficult test to pass did frankly irritate me. It wasn’t difficult at all.

  150. 150.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 8, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    You’re new here, aincha?

    Yep.

  151. 151.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    @MattR:

    If DougJ was “calling you out” in any way it was to offer kudos and separate you from blogs like Redstate or Powerline.

    Oh, DougJ. Is it the Lake Ontario water? The long, dull endless gray of an Upstate winter with heavier than usual snowfall? Lack of a decent microbrewery in a High Falls town?

    Starting with that incident where he claimed his Arkon, and now being quoted somewhere as A Writer At Balloon Juice, he’s just gone all artsy-fartsy yin to Greenwalds yan.

  152. 152.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    The idea that it was some sort of difficult test to pass did frankly irritate me. It wasn’t difficult at all.

    The idea that it was meant to be a difficult test is an inference you’re making.

  153. 153.

    HeftyJo

    February 8, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    Honestly, I keep seeing posts like this on this site and I really just categorize it into the strawman category. You all keeping setting them up and repeatedly knocking them down to the ovations of your own supporting crowd. Conservatives say your doing things LIKE Stalin not because you SUPPORT Stalin. Now, if you all can understand the distinction I give you extra special people stars next to your achievement score card. In other words, is this all you got? Spinning insouciant utter bullcrap that nobody really grasps? Good luck and all that. How this site pulls down the undeserved level of unique hits is beyond me. Label me far from impressed.

  154. 154.

    HeftyJo

    February 8, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    bullcarp = bullcrap

  155. 155.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    @HeftyJo:

    Conservatives say your doing things LIKE Stalin not because you SUPPORT Stalin.

    See? You liebruls can’t make this important distinction because it’s bullshit either way, but you can’t tell teh difference? Know who else couldn’t tell differences? STALIN, probably.

  156. 156.

    nestor

    February 8, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    @HeftyJo:

    You must be one of the “missed reactionaries” we used to talk about with Uncle Joe.

    Stay right there.

  157. 157.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 8, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    @HeftyJo:

    Label me far from impressed.

    Claim your limitations, and sure enough, they are yours.

  158. 158.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 8, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki: There are certain phrase that I can hear from someone at a cocktail party or barbeque that tell me that I should not attempt to have a conversation with them beyond the weather and Packer’s prospects for next season. For example, “As Glen Beck said…” or “I am not prejudiced, but…” coming out of someone’s mouth causes me to find an excuse to quick walk away. Conversation with that person will lead nowhere good. If one is looking for a “reasonable conservative” to read, finding out if someone is reasonable is not a bad way to start. There is enough crap on the internet that I don’t want to wade through it all to find an opposing view with whom a conversation can actually be held.

  159. 159.

    Calouste

    February 8, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    @fasteddie9318®:

    And, you know, not a whole lot of evidence suggesting that liberals are fond of Stalin

    Maybe if liberals were fond of Stalin you’d have Democratic Congressional candidates dressing up like Red Army soldiers at the weekend, no?

  160. 160.

    fasteddie9318®

    February 8, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    @Calouste: THAT WAS PURELY FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES!

  161. 161.

    Kadin

    February 8, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    The Stalin one is kind of funny if you read it as a caricature of people who go around demanding that left-wingers go around condemning every person they’ve shaken hands with in the past half-century. Cf. the outrage over Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright.

  162. 162.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    February 8, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    @cathyx: Red pill or blue pill? Why not both?

  163. 163.

    Warren Terra

    February 8, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    Yes, that’s just it: he wasn’t “calling you out.” You don’t ask those questions of Redstate or Powerline because you already know what the answers will be.

    The idea that it was some sort of difficult test to pass did frankly irritate me. It wasn’t difficult at all.
    And yet it’s a test that most Conservatives fail. Maybe DougJ was wrong to name the League as a haven of sane Conservatives, because – as you assert – maybe it isn’t actually a haven of Conservatives. You posters at the League are the ones who’d know. But DougJ’s intent was clear: he desperately wants to find some sane Conservatives out there.

    I’ve got to say, I’ve been terrified for a couple of years now at the way that the Republicans have become the Stupid Party and the Counterfactual Party. I never expected to agree with Bob Dole or George HW Bush about a heckuva lot, but I could respect them, and I could see there were some ideas and some engagement with reality there. But a party that celebrates Michelle Bachman? A party whose leading light of serious budgetary thought is Paul Ryan, whose so-called budget consists of setting taxes at current rates or lower (current revenue: 17% of GDP) and arbitrarily declaring that the revenue will be 19% of GDP? I don’t really want to ever see the Republicans in power – but they will be, and when they are in power, I want them to be sane. I want them in some way to be idealistic about making this country work. The George W Bush administration was a disaster in this regard: cynical exploitation of the public’s fear for crass political gain, transparently absurd budgeting, into Afghanistan with no plan, into Iraq with no plan and no reason, politicizing the justice department, fiddling while the economy burned, etcetera – and yet that lot are mealymouthed eggheaded moderates by the lights of Michelle Bachman, Rand Paul, and Sarah Palin. The average Democratic politician may be spineless, they may even be venal, but at least they’re still pretty sure that the Earth isn’t flat.

    That rant got long, but I guess what I wanted to say was this: DougJ’s questions were reasonable ones to determine whether a Conservative is remotely connected to reality. You don’t consider yourself a Conservative, so you found the questions so absurd as to be offensive; that’s fine, but most Conservatives would actually fail them, as you yourself note. If you can find similar evidence of a Liberal disconnect from reality, by all means slap us across the face with it. Asserting that we all love ol’ Joseph Djugashvili doesn’t really qualify.

  164. 164.

    Ija

    February 9, 2011 at 12:03 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    If you don’t identify as conservatives, why bother answering the question? Just to bitch and whine about your own superiority? The question was meant for conservatives, if you are not one, shut up. People at LOG sure feels the need to extol their own virtues a lot. Please, you guys are not all that.

    ETA: DougJ’s post was titled Questions for Conservatives. What part of that do you not understand?

  165. 165.

    Ija

    February 9, 2011 at 12:15 am

    And I find it hard to believe that someone who works for Cato is not a conservative. Unless you expect us to believe the lie that libertarians are not conservatives. Nice try, dude. That ship sailed a long time ago. What is it with people at the League going into contortions to pretend to be something they are not? Most of you are conservatives, admit it.

  166. 166.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    February 9, 2011 at 12:21 am

    @cathyx: Do you have a coexist bumper sticker on your car? – No
    Do you bring your own cloth bags to the grocery store? – Yes, but that’s quite common in Canada now. Lots of people use them.

    Disposing of plastic shopping bags properly is a pain in the ass. A guy in quebec developed a plastic bag that can last for years. It uses the plastic of about fifty bags… but it lasts way longer than fifty shopping trips. They sell them for a buck at the grocery store.

    Of course, by your country’s current standards, great conservatives like Peter Lougheed or Bill Davis were raging communists.

  167. 167.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    February 9, 2011 at 12:23 am

    @Ija: Clearly that title was a trick! That DougJ, son of DougJ(R) is indeed the wily one. That’s why it offended a LOG front pager who isn’t a conservative. It was a trick, or perhaps a trap. But it was meant to get someone. So there.

  168. 168.

    El Cid

    February 9, 2011 at 12:47 am

    Do I have to put away my Joseph Stalin lawn jockey now?

  169. 169.

    Allan

    February 9, 2011 at 2:14 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    I’ve been—I’d thought—very pro-science and anti-religion. So much so that many of our commenters complained about me.

    Q.E. motherfucking D.

  170. 170.

    Triassic Sands

    February 9, 2011 at 3:26 am

    Granted, I’ve only been a Democrat for a couple years…

    Uh oh, looks like some serious denial here. A “couple” is two, John, and I think you’ve claimed “Democratitude” [sic] for longer than that. I know, that also means you’re older than you probably want to admit, but part of being a Democrat should be acceptance of reality.

    @Ija:

    Unless you expect us to believe the lie that libertarians are not conservatives.

    I definitely don’t see libertarians as being the same as conservatives. They may share certain beliefs, but someone like Ron Paul is more of a libertarian than he is a conservative. At times, his agenda may coincide with that of liberals. Also, there is such a thing as a civil libertarian and it is not uncommon for liberals to also be civil libertarians.

    One difference I’ve long recognized between (modern) American conservatives and libertarians is that conservatives are fundamentally dishonest and hypocritical, while libertarians live in a Wonderland where normal human interactions don’t hold sway. A conservative may want to eliminate regulations in order to enrich corporations and the wealthy (regardless of what he says publicly to justify his position), while libertarians want to eliminate regulations because they argue that markets will be self-regulating and everyone will come out ahead. Amazingly, despite all the evidence to the contrary, a libertarian may actually believe that nonsense, whereas a conservative doesn’t care about truth, but only about further enriching the haves.

  171. 171.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 9, 2011 at 3:48 am

    @Allan:

    Game, set, and match.

    Obviously, DougJ’s questions riled up the masses over there, and Jason is confirming that those two questions indeed will demonstrate the point DougJ was making.

    Q.E.motherfucking.D, indeed.

  172. 172.

    Xenos

    February 9, 2011 at 6:40 am

    @Warren Terra: The Albigensians were a bunch of wankers.

  173. 173.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 6:46 am

    @Jason Kuznicki: dude….there is a whole body of scientific EVIDENCE on this. quit ducking.
    Conservatism has become memetic selection for stupid. In part this is because of Salam-Douthat stratification on cognitive ability, Grand New Party page 154.
    Partly it is because of social levelling where IQ and education have become NEGATIVE social capital for conservatives.
    Conservatism is anti-empirical….94% of scientists are not conservative. Conservatism is anti-empathetic–literature and the arts require empathy.
    also,too….social brain hypothesis, savannah principle, the biological basis of behavior and backfire effect.
    Conservatives refuse to talk about this. But it is an obvious problem.
    Douchebag and McMegan’s answer is IQ-bussing, affirmative action for intellectually challenged redstate youth.
    someone should shove this under your noses at the League. I would but im banned there.
    :)

  174. 174.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 6:50 am

    @Jason Kuznicki: you know this a problem..Douthat has written extensively on this, and so has Frum Forum.
    stop faking the butthurt.
    you baked this cake with 50 years of anti-intellectualism and basepandering.
    now you can choke on it.

  175. 175.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 6:52 am

    @Warren Terra: both conservatism and libertarianism in America are anti-empirical.

  176. 176.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 9, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Ija said:

    If you don’t identify as conservatives, why bother answering the question? Just to bitch and whine about your own superiority? The question was meant for conservatives, if you are not one, shut up. People at LOG sure feels the need to extol their own virtues a lot. Please, you guys are not all that.

    If we had shut up, you would have complained. As in fact you did:

    What’s the matter? Too chicken to run a straight YES/NO poll out of fear of what it might reveal about your readership? Maybe it turns out your readership is not very “reasonable” at all. I dare you, run a straight YES/NO poll on this and the evolution question.

    I would never have answered the question if it were directed merely at “conservatives.” Instead it was directed at the League, of whom I believe all of two active authors now self-identify as conservative. So I answered, with the caveat (in the title, so you wouldn’t miss it) that I don’t call myself a conservative.

    Conservatism frankly embarrasses me in a lot of areas. DougJ named two of them. I agreed with him. But seriously, you folks just don’t take yes for an answer.

  177. 177.

    aimai

    February 9, 2011 at 7:32 am

    @Warren Terra:

    Marry me, Warren Terra.

    aimai

  178. 178.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Big talk when im not allowed to comment.

    Jaybird February 8, 2011 at 4:47 pm
    For what it’s worth, I tend to judge Balloon Juice by Matoko Chan.
    __
    REPLY
    61 MFarmer February 8, 2011 at 4:49 pm
    I judge the entire Left by Matoko Chan

    REPLY (if i could)
    Judge this, cudlips.
    Salam-Douthat stratification ON COGNITIVE ABILITY.
    Y’all have a copy of Grand New Party i presume? page 154.
    Salam-Douthat stratification on cognitive ability in action.
    and here.

  179. 179.

    aimai

    February 9, 2011 at 7:34 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    Does this make sense to you? Many of your own commenters–from your own side–complain because you are pro-science/evolution/global warming and you think the problem is that Doug J thinks your commentes are wrong? *You* think your commenters are wrong. Why do you think that is? Do you think they come to read your writing, and criticize it from the right, for completely random reasons?

    aimai

  180. 180.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 7:35 am

    @Jason Kuznicki: unban meh and ill give u an answer.
    /wicked grin

  181. 181.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 7:37 am

    @aimai: he is anti-empirical, aimai.
    pointless to argue unless you want to field study backfire effect and fact-blocking.

  182. 182.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 7:47 am

    @aimai: you see….aimai cher…jason can say TO US that he acknowledges evolution and AGW, but he would nevernevernever impugn his base’s God Given Right to believe in dumb, stupid, anti-empirical, bad and provably counterfactual memes.
    that is why i got banned at the League.
    I accused EDK of basepandering instead of trying to educate that base.
    they dont think the base can learn.
    And praps they are right. 50 years of anti-intellectualism and Salam-Douthat stratification on cognitive ability may have rendered the base impervious to anything but slogans and demagoguery…but praps that was their design all along.
    :)

  183. 183.

    brantl

    February 9, 2011 at 7:51 am

    @joe from Lowell:

    That’s why he wrote “Caricature is easy, isn’t it?” He only “associates” them with liberals to the extent that he recognizes that they are caricatures.

    You’re giving him a lot of credit, he doesn’t recognize much…………..

  184. 184.

    THE

    February 9, 2011 at 7:57 am

    OT
    Matoko, I’ve left a comment for you on Ghosts.

  185. 185.

    Ija

    February 9, 2011 at 8:14 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    That complaint was in response to Will’s stupid ass poll. That was not in response to “non-conservatives” at LOG not answering DougJ’s question. Way to bury the lead and mislead people there, Jason. I appreciate it. And for God’s sake, stop pretending y’all are not conservatives. All the hand wringing about “not finding a home on the left” etc etc. Own it, y’all are conservatives. Be out and be proud.

    ETA: It’s like y’all think the League is on a higher plane or something. How dare DougJ imply that about us? How special do you think you are anyway? Honest question.

  186. 186.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 9, 2011 at 9:04 am

    @Ija:

    You were complaining that we at the League were being evasive. Immediately before that, you were complaining that I had answered the questions. Was there anything I might have done that would satisfy you?

    If I’d been silent, you’d have said “Aha! An uncomfortable silence!”

    If I’d spoken up, well, I know what you did. You told me to be quiet.

    How about this. I’ll tell you the issues I care about the most, and you tell me whether I’m a conservative or a liberal.

    –I believe we should end the war on drugs. This to me is the biggest single issue there is. Treat addiction as a public health problem, not as a crime. Stop locking up so many minorities for a pseudo-crime that’s anyway disproportionately committed by whites.

    –I believe we should massively cut our defense spending and bring our troops home from essentially all of the 150+ countries where they are stationed.

    –I believe that we should relax occupational licensing and zoning laws to give small businesses a chance.

    –I think same-sex marriage is good for everyone, straight and gay people alike. So I’d repeal DOMA.

    –I believe that we should means-test Social Security. The rich don’t need it; let’s save it for the poor.

    –I believe that we should end all farm subsidies.

    –I believe that we should end the tax exemption for health insurance.

    These are my priorities. I don’t see that I fit comfortably on either the left or the right. Perhaps someone will now come along and tell me that I’m not a libertarian, either. It would figure, wouldn’t it?

    But I’d much rather be discussing issues like the above on their own merits, and not discussing which club I putatively belong to.

  187. 187.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 9, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Does this make sense to you? Many of your own commenters—from your own side—complain because you are pro-science/evolution/global warming and you think the problem is that Doug J thinks your commentes are wrong? You think your commenters are wrong. Why do you think that is? Do you think they come to read your writing, and criticize it from the right, for completely random reasons?

    I don’t acknowledge that these commenters are of my own side. These are the folks who compare my same-sex marriage to bestiality. Their reasons are not, as you say, “random,” but I do find them irrational and baseless.

    They may comment at the League, but it’s a grave error to suppose that they are on my side. The League attracts all kinds, for good and ill.

  188. 188.

    General Stuck

    February 9, 2011 at 9:18 am

    And so it goes on. The thread about nothing.

  189. 189.

    Ija

    February 9, 2011 at 9:21 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    If I’d spoken up, well, I know what you did. You told me to be quiet.

    How about letting the CONSERVATIVES answer, then? Since you insist, INSIST! I tell you, that you are not a conservative, why are you so offended by the questions? It’s not directed to you personally, or do you make a habit of taking everything personally? The post is titled “Questions for Conservatives”, not “Questions for thin-skinned people at LOG”. Learn to tell the difference.

  190. 190.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 9:32 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    I don’t acknowledge that these commenters are of my own side.

    but they are on your side. you both vote republican. you might deplore their idiocy, but you NEVER call them on it. You are a basepanderer like EDK. Bad, wrong, stupid, anti-empirical and counterfactual ideas being imposed as policy is what is destroying this country.
    Conservatism is a dead phailosophy. It didnt work. Conservatism gave us the Econopalypse and 30 years of Mubarak and the Epic Fail of the Manifest Destiny of jeebus democracy in MENA. Conservatism gave us the Nuclear Republic of Iran and OBL. and Hayek was WRONG……booyah!
    There are no good ideas left in conservatism, and libertarianism in America has devolved to just a bunch of anti-empirical assclowns giving handjobs to the bankstahs.
    You have a responsibility to EDUCATE the Noble Yeoman Farmers you pretend to lead.
    So dont pretend you are just like us.
    /spit

  191. 191.

    Ija

    February 9, 2011 at 9:35 am

    You know what I really hate about League of Ordinary Gentlemen? That superiority shit that you guys pull off day in day out. Even Freddie-I-am-the-only-true-leftist-deBoer exhibited that when he was blogging at LOG. It’s not about being a conservative/liberal/libertarian/I-can’t-find-a-home-on-the-left/whatever, it’s your sense of superiority. You guys think you are so much better than anyone else, and that shows in your posts, and in how you respond to other blogs. Like it is such an atrocity beyond belief that DougJ would ever ask questions about evolution and global warming to LOG, gosh, how could he think that of us, what does he think we are, RedState? We are all superior beings here, how dare he questions our honor?

    I bet most of you work in academia, or judging from the maturity level of the posts, have aspirations for career in academia. Only academics can pull off this level of superiority complex.

  192. 192.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 9:40 am

    @Jason Kuznicki:

    tell me that I’m not a libertarian

    ..and i totally believe you are an American libertarian. An intellectual whore held in babylonian captivity to the socons and the bankstahs.
    whoever feeds the dog, owns the dog.
    fap-fap-fap markets!

  193. 193.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 9:48 am

    @Ija: yeah, its that WITH the base but not OF the base crapology.
    I hate Douchebag and the rest of the bourgie conservatives at LOG and the glibertarian posse at Cato and Reason far worse than Palin and Limbaugh.
    Because they empower the rabid christofascists with a faint veneer of reasonableness, and tell the base it is ALL RIGHT to have bad stupid counterfactual ideas and to IMPOSE those ideas on the rest of us citizens.
    Conservative ideas HAVE ALL FAILED, horribly.
    and they will never admit it.

  194. 194.

    chopper

    February 9, 2011 at 10:01 am

    lol, so asking conservatives if they believe in evolution or climate change (the majority of said group says no) is a ‘patronizing generalization’ in the same manner as asking a liberal if they believe in a ‘broccoli mandate’.

    sounds like this guy doth protest too much. either that, or he’s a complete strawman-making buffoon. i’m thinking the latter.

  195. 195.

    Jason Kuznicki

    February 9, 2011 at 10:06 am

    but they are on your side. you both vote republican.

    I don’t.

  196. 196.

    chopper

    February 9, 2011 at 10:08 am

    @Ija:

    nothing sadder than a faux-intellectual hack who claims to be ‘independent’ because he speaks with such self-righteous sophism that nobody wants to hang out with him.

  197. 197.

    chopper

    February 9, 2011 at 10:19 am

    also, i love watching glibertarians bitch and moan about how they aren’t ‘conservatives’, and how dare you try to pigeonhole and categorize me!, then turn around and go back to bitching about ‘liberals’.

  198. 198.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 10:32 am

    @Jason Kuznicki: lawl, liar liar pants on fire…show me your registration.
    and still, you defend the GodGiven RIGHT of the christofacists and conservitards to impose WEC doctrine on the rest of us citizens, don’t you? Like ensoulment, creationism, AGW denial, homophobia, etc?
    And the right of the bankstahs to soullessly and rapaciously farm the american electorate for cash in the Holy Name of the Free Market?
    And please, lets talk about Hayek and Dead-White-Guy Phailosophy.
    you have no street cred with meh, Jason.
    You are fed by the Kochs.
    and….fap-fap-fap markets!

  199. 199.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 10:45 am

    @Jason Kuznicki: and please convey this message to jaybird and mfarmer, (since im banned at LOG) …if its any consolation, a WHOLE lot of the cudlips here hate on me too. :)
    i do miss Dr. Manzi.
    how he would laff to hear my theory of the midterm results.
    Distributed Jesusland in action.
    ;)

  200. 200.

    Stefan

    February 9, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Do you own or have ever owned a Subaru? A Prius?

    No, but then I live in NY so don’t own any car. Which makes me a communist.

    Do you listen to “A Prairie Home Companion”? or “Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me”?

    Only if I’m in a car and it’s on the radio, but since (see above) I don’t own a car, this only happens when I’m driving a rental to the Hamptons on the weekend.

    Merlot or Cabernet?

    Pinot Noir.

    Do you and your significant other read novels to each other on a long car ride?

    See answers above re lack of car ownership. If I did own a car, no, since I get car-sick when reading. (Why so many questions about cars? This betrays an anti-urban bias!)

    Do you do the New York Times crossword puzzle?

    In ink, motherfucker. In. Ink.

  201. 201.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 11:21 am

    @Stefan:

    In ink, motherfucker. In. Ink.

    win.

  202. 202.

    Morbo

    February 9, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    @Triassic Sands: The lowercase “l” is the key in that paragraph.

  203. 203.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    better run along home now, Jason.
    fucking coward…..you’re just like EDK.

    run run run glibertarian man
    we’ll eat you up as fast as we can.
    crush crush
    shred shred

  204. 204.

    Jaybird

    February 9, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Hey Matoko.

    I think that it would be unfair to judge Balloon Juice by you (or any single commenter at Balloon Juice, for that matter).

    My post saying what you did was intended to show DougJ an (I thought it was) amusing counterpoint to how he didn’t need to re-evaluate any assumptions based on Bob’s answer to the questions (despite all of the other answers given by far more people).

    If that wasn’t clear, I apologize.

    Keep the faith and I hope that you continue to use UAs.

    Jaybird

  205. 205.

    matoko_chan

    February 9, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    @Jaybird: do. i. care.
    like i said, conservatism is selection for stupid.
    even their smart people are retards.

  206. 206.

    Jaybird

    February 10, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Matoko,

    I assumed you cared when you gave Jason a message for me.

    Should I have seen that as communication that you didn’t care?

    I’ll do my best to go back to our old ways of communication.

    Jaybird

  207. 207.

    matoko_chan

    February 10, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    @Jaybird: we havent communicated since EDK banned me.
    i dont read that steaming pile of recycled conservative cowshit.
    fuck off.

  208. 208.

    Jaybird

    February 10, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Matoko,

    Oh, sorry. I assumed you read it when you pasted something that I wrote over there.

    You know what happens when you assume!

    Anyway, ttyl.

    Jaybird

  209. 209.

    matoko_chan

    February 10, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    and DIAF.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • Baud on Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The GOP Insists There Will Be Blood Impeachment (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:42am)
  • RaflW on Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The GOP Insists There Will Be Blood Impeachment (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:42am)
  • Omnes Omnibus on Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The GOP Insists There Will Be Blood Impeachment (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:42am)
  • Jinchi on Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The GOP Insists There Will Be Blood Impeachment (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:42am)
  • topclimber on Wednesday Morning Open Thread: The GOP Insists There Will Be Blood Impeachment (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:41am)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning
Proposed BJ meetups list from frosty

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8
Virginia House Races
Four Directions – Montana
Worker Power AZ
Four Directions – Arizona
Four Directions – Nevada

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
Positive Climate News
War in Ukraine
Cole’s “Stories from the Road”
Classified Documents Primer

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Political Action 2024

Postcard Writing Information

Balloon Juice for Four Directions AZ

Donate

Balloon Juice for Four Directions NV

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2024 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!