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You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute / Defining deviancy down

Defining deviancy down

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A writer at Daily Dish recently wrote:

One of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts is Dennis Prager..

Library Grape chronicles some of the thoughtful things Prager said recently:

If you love liberty, you must target the left and put its totalitarian tendencies in your cross hairs. We must shoot down political correctness and wage a crusade for truth and liberty. All those ladies and gentlemen who cherish personal and societal freedom must fight like great Indian chiefs, braving secondhand smoke if need be, in affirming a masculinity that has been under relentless attack. And yes, we must even endure the taunts of our foes and, at the appropriate time of the year, wish fellow Americans a “Merry Christmas.”

Prager doesn’t think evolution should be taught in schools and is unsure of global warming is taking place.

But I’m a glib, condescending asshole when I ask conservatives if they believe in evolution and believe that global temperatures have risen over the past 30 years.

Reader Interactions

81Comments

  2. 2.

    scav

    Are these the same great second-hand-smoke braving Indian Chiefs the same as those Non-Christian Indian Chiefs that deserved to have their land taken from them or are they different ones?

  3. 3.

    Josie

    The phrase “thoughtful right-leaning talk radio host” is such a contradiction in terms. It is to laugh.

  4. 4.

    BGinCHI

    Anyone else spot the disconnect in a statement like this?

    The problem is that vast numbers of people never leave the cloistered world of their childhood. This is as true for those who grow up in Manhattan as it is for those who grow up in Fargo.

    If not, then you can think about this gem:

    And as for college, there are few places as insular and cloistered as the university.

    It’s not that there’s no truth to either statement. It’s the kind of truth that’s there, that just slips by as the rightwing bobbleheads bobble in agreement.

    They really are stupid.

  6. 6.

    Mark S.

    Most conservatives do not want creationism taught in schools and have no trouble with teaching evolution. But if evolution is taught as meaning all life, including human, just happened by itself, that is beyond science — that is the teaching of atheism. And many of us, including vast numbers of scientists, think that children and society do better learning that there is a moral and purposeful God that created the world (and perhaps evolution as well).

    Isn’t teaching “there is a moral and purposeful God” the definition of “beyond science”? Do these people know what the fuck science is?

  7. 7.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    … in affirming a masculinity that has been under relentless attack…

    Uh… Dennis?

    In poker, that sort of comment is called a ‘tell’…

    Issues, Dennis?

  8. 8.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Josie: Yes. What you said here. Laugh, I, too, along with you.

    Isn’t Dennis Prager also the ones who claims to know what women want as he’s working on his third wife?

    The Googley tells me that, yes, Dennis Prager is that sanctimonious asshole. Thoughtful, indeed.

  9. 9.

    BGinCHI

    @scav: I also thought the “white guy Manifest Destiny Fetishist” lobbying for his folks to act as Indian Chiefs was just genius.

    Fight for freedom like the guys we killed when we took over their land did! USA! USA!

    You can’t make this shit up.

  11. 11.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    @Pooh: Conor. Trying to grow up to be Ross Douthat, one douchey and idiotic statement on Sully’s blog at a time.

  12. 12.

    El Cid

    One of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts is…

    One of the most enjoyable forms of amoebic dysentery is…

  13. 13.

    Jay

    You know, Wes Moore, a young ex-Army captain, Rhodes Scholar, and (so help me) future Democratic officeholder recently showed up on Prager’s show to talk about his book: The Other Wes Moore:One Name, Two Fates (about a guy from Moore’s neighborhood, also named Wes Moore, who gets life in prison, and how the trajectory of his life relates to the author’s).

    Again, there’s no indication Moore shares Prager’s politics (given that Moore spoke at Mile High during the DNC in ’08), and as James Wolcott wrote in defense of Chuck Hagel when the latter man was getting ripped by Michael Ledeen: “There is a stature gap approaching the pygmy shade.” Moore gave me that vibe when I heard him talk to Prager.

    All this is by way of giving props to DougJ for letting me use his post about the gawdawful toad Prager to talk about Wes Moore and his book. Juicers, you should read it. It’s a quickie, so I’m sure we could discuss it without eating too much thread.

  16. 16.

    El Cid

    @Mark S.:

    …many of us, including vast numbers of scientists, think that children and society do better learning that there is a moral and purposeful God that created the world…

    Many of us, including vast numbers of Wal-Mart customers, believe they have been kidnapped by extraterrestrials or have been haunted by poltergeists.

  17. 17.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @El Cid: My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who saw this happen at 31 Flavors.

  18. 18.

    BGinCHI

    @El Cid: “…vast numbers of scientists…”

    That convinces like “some say.”

    Making shit up used to be frowned on in serious circles.

  19. 19.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    @El Cid: True, some do, poor fools. But my superstition is better than your superstition. So there.

  20. 20.

    Stillwater

    One of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts is Dennis Prager.

    I read this earlier while trolling Conorisms. The guy is completely ridiculous. And in Frieder-speak, what exactly does ‘thoughtful’ mean: caring and concerned? carefully reasoned and argued? or merely the mental exertion required to string words together into English sounding sentences expressing laughable arguments?

  21. 21.

    Pooh

    I’ve actually had a recent back and forth with Conor over the seeming irony of him simultaneously cheerleading “freedom” in Egypt while pooh-poohing actual exercises of actual freedom in the U.S. (such as protesting the Koch’s or something as banal as enjoying bottle service at a douchey club) – he promised another response, waiting with baited breath I am.

  23. 23.

    beltane

    @Pooh: He had a really weird, douchey post up earlier in the week where he aired his grievances relating to bartenders in trendy clubs. It seems that serving rich assholes is worse than actually being a rich asshole. No matter what subject a gliberatrian is discussing, it is imperative that he shit upon the working stiffs of this world.

    I take it Conor never got to hang out with the cool kids and is now eternally bitter over the fact. Maybe the new Ayn Rand movie will cheer him up.

  25. 25.

    Pooh

    @beltane: yeah, that was the instigation for the most recent round, but I had already noted what was basically back to back posts of him going all giddy at Egyptians taking to the street and talking about how useless and stupid picketing Kochapalooza was.

    ETA: I mean I too think bottle service is, generally speaking, dumb, but maybe it’s the hippie/pinko/commiefascist in me, but I feel bad for the people who have to cater to that crowd as opposed to looking down on them.

  27. 27.

    arguingwithsignposts

    One of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts is Dennis Prager..

    You know who else was a thoughtful right-leaning talker?

    This is the guy who said he respected Jonah Goldberg’s work. Fuck him.

  28. 28.

    beltane

    @Pooh: When left-of-center citizens protest something it is because they are shrill and unworthy of freedom. When Egyptians do it it’s OK because they’re thousands of miles away. When teabaggers do it it’s commendable because they are engaging in patriotic activities.

    But the bouncers don’t allow Conor into the A-list clubs and this makes me smile.

  30. 30.

    Pangloss

    But I’m a glib, condescending asshole when I ask conservatives if they believe in evolution and believe that global temperatures have risen over the past 30 years.

    Isn’t that the operating definition of “shrill?” And by the way, I still haven’t heard you definitively AND catagorically reject the pro-broccoli agenda.

  32. 32.

    beltane

    On a sad note, Sully must be seriously ill to have missed posting on the Egyptian uprising. I hope he is better soon, and not just because his minions are awful.

  33. 33.

    Ed Drone

    @Mark S.:

    And many of us, including vast numbers of scientists, think that children and society do better learning that there is a moral and purposeful God that created the world (and perhaps evolution as well).

    In addition to being illogical, that statement presupposes that morals require a God (or an established religion). This is not at all true. In fact, using the argument that “people won’t be good without threats” essentially negates being good, and, for that matter, salvation itself. If I have to have a punitive, demanding God in order to live right, then living right isn’t because I’m good, but because I’m careful (and skeered).

    Who wants that? If I can’t be good and see the good in others unless I’m in danger of losing my soul, why be good? I don’t like being forced, and if I give in to that force, I’m not really doing or being “good” anyway.

    Similarly, why must there be a God to explain the workings of the universe? That whole “there must be a God because things are so fucking complex” is stupid to the nth degree. Evolution works toward complexity. If there were a God, He’d have made everything work simply. Why make it complex? You’re God, for God’s sake! You can make the eyes or the brain or the lymph nodes work without being complex. Since they are complex, they came about through a process that we call ‘evolution,’ whether or not there was a God who designed the system.

    So the illogic continues, whether in science or morality. It’s still illogical.

    Ed

  35. 35.

    Pangloss

    @beltane: HIV is a bitch. Side effects of meds are debilitating enough by themselves (low energy, nausea, digestive problems, dizzyness, bizarre dreams, muscle wasting, joint problems, etc.), but even if you have good T-cell counts you can still get some nasty and lingering infections that crop up seemingly out of nowhere.

  37. 37.

    Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen

    One of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts is Dennis Prager

    I do not think that word means &c.

    Sadly, No! has a good selection of Pragerisms. The latest:

    To the men and women of the left-leaning news media, in particular, “In God We Trust” is an anachronism at best, an impediment to moral progress at worst. The existence of those giant chiseled words so disturbs the media that, consciously or not, they do not want Americans to see them. … The words “In God We Trust” emblazoned in giant letters behind the president of the United States just don’t sit well with the secular media. So you won’t see them.

  38. 38.

    Warren Terra

    Right “leaning”?? Just how much of a slight inclination to the Right does it show when you’re contemplating (carefully just barely metaphorical) violence against the Left? If that’s leaning, how do you show commitment? Bloody scalps?

  39. 39.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    If you love liberty (And as a red-blooded winger, you do, right?), you must target the left (Weapons! Sights! Taking aim at the enemy!!) the left and put its totalitarian tendencies (Commies!! Soshulists!! Marxists!! Hitler!! Stalin!! Mao!!) in your cross hairs (Scopes!). We must shoot down political correctness (Excellent, something to kill!) and wage a crusade (Religous sounding cause? Fuck yeah!) for truth and liberty (Because you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is not only wrong but also a traitor!). All those ladies and gentlemen (Unlike the savages seeking to destroy us!) who cherish personal and societal freedom (Again, unlike the savages seeking to destroy us!!) must fight (More violence!) like great Indian chiefs (Never mind that these chiefs never stood a chance and eventually lost their battles, we’re Indians now! Gimme a war whoop!!), braving secondhand smoke if need be (You’re no namby-pamby limp-wristed librul, are ya?!), in affirming a masculinity that has been under relentless attack (By them feminazis that Dear Leader and his dittoheads have been warning us about!). And yes, we must even endure the taunts of our foes and, at the appropriate time of the year, wish fellow Americans a “Merry Christmas.” (while you are targeting and killing them, of course.)

    Boy, this fuckstain hits all of the winger erogenous zones in one short blast of verbal masturbation. Wingnuts across the country must have popped their nut when they chowed down on this ‘red meat’.

    Most thoughtful? Conor doesn’t think much, do he?

  40. 40.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    I give the little dipweed full marks for publishing a reader response that contains this blunt truth:

    I get that you don’t see this about yourself, that you think you’re one of the good guys. I’ve worked in enough bars and restaurants to know the type. But believe me, you are that asshole, the one who thinks he’s not an asshole.

    Which of course he then proceeds to rationalize away in far too many words. Perhaps he really wants to be the love child of Glenn Greenwald and Ross Douthat. Without Glenn’s intelligent commentary but all his wordiness, of course.

  41. 41.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    One of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts is Dennis Prager..

    All the idiocy and racism and horseshit quoted above still don’t disprove this.

  42. 42.

    Annie

    A Prager pearl of wisdom. A wife should be willing to submit to her husband, anytime, any place. After all, he works hard and has needs. Needs women don’t understand nor have. The only “needs” they should have is to pleasure their husbands. Yep, he is definitely “one of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts…”

  43. 43.

    General Stuck

    If you love liberty, you must target the left and put its totalitarian tendencies in your cross hairs.

    It always cracks me up when wingnuts talk like this. I mean fuck, don’t they ever read liberal blogs, that can’t decide whether Obama is the spawn of the republican satan, or a fairly decent mainstream democratic president.

    A group of folks can’t be totalitarian when they can’t tell their left foot from their right foot, nor decide on the time of day.

  44. 44.

    RSA

    Prager:

    Most conservatives do not want creationism taught in schools and have no trouble with teaching evolution.

    Bullshit. A Pew Forum survey from 2005 showed that 56% of those believing in Creationism want it taught instead of evolution in the classroom.

  45. 45.

    Villago Delenda Est

    If you love liberty, you must target the left and put its totalitarian tendencies in your cross hairs. We must shoot down political correctness and wage a crusade for truth and liberty.

    Classic projection. This is yet another authoritarian asshole who loves uniforms and regimentation.

  46. 46.

    dmbeaster

    20 years ago, he was semi reasonable on LA talk radio. I think he went whole hog right wing crazy to stay “relevant” and keep his ratings. That is how principled he is.

  48. 48.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @dmbeaster:

    Ratings are EVERYTHING in broadcasting. Nothing else is important.

    Who can blame him for selling his soul for ratings? Certainly not any of the executives at his station.

  51. 51.

    Shithead #3 - formerly Gen Stuck

    Speaking of quotes from notable wingnuts, here are some recent classics from the mouth of Dante’s Inferno, spoken by the Mustache of War.

    From CPAC – John Bolton speech

    “But we know it is a responsibility of our government to protect our government and our friends and our allies,” he continued, “Never forget Theodore Roosevelt’s response: first and foremost we must make the world safe for ourselves.”

    And my fav, and I always say, the mean sumbitch at least gives us the distilled version of the right wing neo con priorities, which is always a call to blow shit up

    “This is not the time for indiscriminate budget cuts in our national defense budget. A dollar well spent on defense is much more important than a dollar spent in the Agriculture department, the Interior department.”

    If someone could genetically engineer an exploding turnip, we’d be in like flint.

  52. 52.

    Bondo

    This is hilarious. Prager, this buffoon that is now attacking the evils of insularity and groupthink, wrote a column several years ago about how he wouldn’t let his kids play with other children whose parents happened to be atheists.

    Although one can hold onto insular and bad ideas even after interacting with others, it is much harder to do so, especially when one interacts on the others’ terms, as must be done when traveling to other cultures (and especially when traveling alone).

    It is therefore one of the most maturing things a person can do.

    And then there is the real Denis Prager, that grasps his bad ideas and won’t let go, refusing to act on others’ terms, and refuses to mature.

  53. 53.

    unabogie

    @dmbeaster:

    Yeah, he used to bill himself as a “passionate centrist”. Which explains all his criticisms of the right. Hmm, I’m sure those links are around here somewhere…

  54. 54.

    gnomedad

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Isn’t Dennis Prager also the ones who claims to know what women want as he’s working on his third wife?

    So he’s about due to convert to Catholicism, then.

  55. 55.

    jrg

    If you love liberty, you must target the left and put its totalitarian tendencies in your cross hairs.

    Holy shit. The last Republican president was arresting protesters, imprisoning people without trial, and putting people in “free speech zones”. Then a dem comes into office, and GOPers start showing up to rallies with assault weapons, and not one of them gets arrested.

    How stupid do you have to be in order to believe that the left represents totalitarianism in this country? Conor is a fucking moron.

  56. 56.

    Linda Featheringill

    Doug:

    Regarding you impertinence in asking global-warming-type questions of folks:

    I read the stuff at Gentlemen [yesterday?] and went away really confused. Why all this talk about whom to trust to make scientific decisions for us? The evidence for global warming is not that technical. If those guys would quit making excuses and actually read the evidence, they could decide for themselves.

    Really. You don’t have to twist into a pretzel trying to decide which “expert” to trust. Obtain the evidence and examine it yourself.

    Geez!

  57. 57.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Villago Delenda Est

    Classic projection. This is yet another authoritarian asshole who loves uniforms and regimentation.

    Yet strangely enough he never actually served in the military. Can we make it legal to hunt and kill conservative chickenhawks?

  58. 58.

    Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen

    But we can draft their asses, send them through basic and infantry training, and then send them to Afghanistan.

    Man, if any president ever even THINKS of reinstating the draft, do NOT stand between a fReichtard and the US/Canada border. You will be trampled flat.

  60. 60.

    James E Powell

    Every one of the right-wing radio hosts is a hustler. They scam the fearful, the bigoted, and the ignorant. The loyal members of their audiences are deeply attached to their nightmares. They turn from reality because confronting reality means confronting oneself. Rush, Prager, all of them, prey on these moral weaklings. It’s like serving alcohol to a drunk. One might say that the drunk is choosing to drink, but no one skillful enough to exploit such people is stupid enough to believe that.

  61. 61.

    Dean

    Prager was fairly thoughtful during his days on the old KABC, but he has become increasingly appalling as he desperately chases the Fox News demo. It is sad, really.

  62. 62.

    Joey Maloney

    I was just going to post something along the same lines as Dean. Fifteen years or so ago (when Prager was a columnist for Moment magazine) he was halfway sane. I’d disagree with him most of the time but, you know, he was constructing actual reality-based arguments.

    Now, either wallowing in the fever swamp of modern conservatism rotted his brain over the years, or he just decided it’s all about the Benjamins. I don’t know which and I don’t suppose it matters.

  63. 63.

    shecky

    Prager was fairly thoughtful during his days on the old KABC

    This gives him a bit too much credit. On his good days back then, he came off as a prudish old fart, shaking his head over the crazy kids these days. But usually, he was just a sanctimonious, authoritarian asshole.

    One interesting anecdote, Prager is apparently on a friendly basis with an old school teacher of mine, a then RC priest (and all asshole) who has since been accused of sexual improprieties. With a girl, no less!

  64. 64.

    matoko_chan

    But I’m a glib, condescending asshole when I ask conservatives if they believe in evolution and believe that global temperatures have risen over the past 30 years.

    no….but you are apparently merciless….you are the Master Troll.
    that exercise was a total setup….you knew those pompous assclowns would fall right into the pit and be punji-staked on the blades of your intellect.
    im curious tho…are there any repercussions for ganking a fellow BJ frontpager as thoroughly and elegantly as you reamed EDK?
    perhaps from your Own Consicious even?
    the poor doofus was so gormlessly proud of the League.
    not even the faintest scent of pity.

  65. 65.

    TomG

    Late to the thread….
    I used to listen to Dennis Prager back in the 90s. I liked him a lot back then – even when I disagreed with him. Soon after 9/11 I noticed a definite change, that I wasn’t comfortable listening to, and stopped.
    I haven’t heard him in years, and any time I read one of his columns I get a “facepalm” moment.

  66. 66.

    keestadoll

    Most conservatives do not want creationism taught in schools and have no trouble with teaching evolution. But if evolution is taught as meaning all life, including human, just happened by itself, that is beyond science — that is the teaching of atheism. And many of us, including vast numbers of scientists, think that children and society do better learning that there is a moral and purposeful God that created the world (and perhaps evolution as well)

    The willing (and happy?)belief in an omnipotent force that created us, guides our actions, and punishes us when we do something against its will…Neocons, a question for you: you get behind this, but isn’t it this same blind adherence to a belief system and an entity (POTUS)that you claim plagues liberals. Oh…so it’s fine as long as you cannot actually see, hear, touch…shit…Whatever.

  68. 68.

    Chris

    Most conservatives do not want creationism taught in schools and have no trouble with teaching evolution. But if evolution is taught as meaning all life, including human, just happened by itself, that is beyond science — that is the teaching of atheism.

    Except, of course, that evolution doesn’t teach that and never has. Evolution is the way the world works, period. You’re at liberty to believe that it “just happened by itself,” or that God designed the world that way, or that aliens zapped the planet with high-energy tachyon quantum Treknobabble type stuff and that’s what made it happen. Evolution will only teach you the mechanics, not the theological implications – it’s only conservatives who want the theological implications brought up in class, however much they want to pin that on us.

    And when the world’s biggest Christian church (Catholics) embrace evolution, it becomes very difficult for me to keep a straight face when listening to them call it “atheism.” Heck, I’ve heard of scientific events hosted by the RCC which some fundamentalist denominations were banned from attending because they were creationist.

  69. 69.

    Chris

    @keestadoll:

    Neocons, a question for you: you get behind this, but isn’t it this same blind adherence to a belief system and an entity (POTUS)that you claim plagues liberals.

    Ah, but you forget the fundamental difference between us and them: they’re right and we’re wrong…

  70. 70.

    matoko_chan

    @Chris: no….the fundamental difference is that they are anti-empirical and we are empiricists. progressivism is guess and test.
    conservatism is keep doing the same thing even if it fails multiple times, because it SHOULD work, because it worked ONE TIME before.
    see?

  71. 71.

    matoko_chan

    and if you want proof, just check out the apes discussing philosophy conservatives discussing science threads at the League.
    another gem from uberearnest Jason.

    Jason SEZ–strongly suspect that most non-scientists who say otherwise about relativity are either talking out their asses or else have turned relativity into a sort of well-boundaried micro-religion.
    __
    DougJ–This is bullshit. Plenty of non-scientists have heard of Michelson–Morley. The speed of light is constant, even when you move towards the light source.
    __
    It’s just not that complicated, unless you’re an idiot.

    lollololollloo1111!!!

  72. 72.

    Chris

    @matoko_chan:

    Oh, totally. I’m just saying it the way they see it. They don’t need to guess, they don’t need to test, because The Truth has been revealed to them. And it’s not even “because it worked ONE time before,” it’s “because we have it on unquestionable authority that it MUST work.”

    Which is why when they finally get everything they want (six years of Republican rule in both legislative houses, the executive and the judiciary) and it leaves us in the worst economic condition since the 1920s, they all fell back on “Bush was a liberal.” Because what he did didn’t work, therefore it can’t have been conservative, therefore he’s a liberal.

  73. 73.

    matoko_chan

    @Chris: yup, ‘zactly.
    the League is a perfect example of first culture intellectuals.

    Indeed, the traditional American intellectuals are, in a sense, increasingly reactionary, and quite often proudly (and perversely) ignorant of many of the truly significant intellectual accomplishments of our time. Their culture, which dismisses science, is often nonempirical. It uses its own jargon and washes its own laundry. It is chiefly characterized by comment on comments, the swelling spiral of commentary eventually reaching the point where the real world gets lost.

    they arent even smart enuff to get that DougJ is trolling them.

  74. 74.

    matoko_chan

    @Chris: yup, ‘zactly.
    the League is a perfect example of first culture intellectuals.

    Indeed, the traditional American intellectuals are, in a sense, increasingly reactionary, and quite often proudly (and perversely) ignorant of many of the truly significant intellectual accomplishments of our time. Their culture, which dismisses science, is often nonempirical. It uses its own jargon and washes its own laundry. It is chiefly characterized by comment on comments, the swelling spiral of commentary eventually reaching the point where the real world gets lost.

    they arent even smart enuff to get that DougJ is trolling them.

    Jason: I don’t see why not understanding four-dimensional geometry makes me a dunce.
    __
    REPLY
    104 DougJ February 11, 2011 at 7:48 am
    If you don’t understand science, why are you critiquing it in this manner? Why are you projecting your own ignorance onto others? Not everyone is a dunce just because you are.

  75. 75.

    matoko_chan

    i wanna see what happens next.
    EDK banned me for disagreeing with him.
    but DougJ is OPENLY trolling them….will EDK ban him? the suspense is breathtaking.

  78. 78.

    Chris

    @matoko_chan:

    It is chiefly characterized by comment on comments, the swelling spiral of commentary eventually reaching the point where the real world gets lost.

    I don’t know where that quote came from, but that’s a wonderfully accurate description of conservative groupthink and its ever-less-intelligible output. Thank.

  80. 80.

    matoko_chan

    i wonder….if it has crossed EDK’s mind…..that praps Cole just invited him here to make fun of him.
    muhahahahaha

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