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You are here: Home / Food & Recipes / Beer Blogging / Standing on the corner of fifth and vermouth

Standing on the corner of fifth and vermouth

by DougJ|  February 12, 20118:19 pm| 116 Comments

This post is in: Beer Blogging

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I had the best Manhattan I have ever had last night, at this place. It was smooth without being overly sweet and had a bit of cherry taste to it. The cherry taste probably came from some juice from the brandied cherry, but I haven’t figured out how it got so smooth without being over-vermouthed (which would make it overly sweet). A friend speculated they used some Dubonnet rouge in place of regular vermouth. I couldn’t find any mention of such tricks in this article, except for the one guy who puts in shiraz with a little brown sugar.

It seems appropriate to put up a “Nighthawks At the Diner” era Tom Waits video here.

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Reader Interactions

116Comments

  1. 1.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 12, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Bad liver and a broken heart seems appropriate.

  2. 2.

    DougJ®

    February 12, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    @The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts:

    Yeah, I really like the stuff on “Nighthawks at the Diner” the best, even though no one else likes it. The Piano Has Been Drinking Would work too but it’s a bit maudlin.

  3. 3.

    Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen

    February 12, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    There is something obscene about the placement of Justin Berber pic within 10,000 yards of Tom Waits. (At least that’s what I’m seeing.)

    And speaking of owls and booze.

  4. 4.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 12, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Standing on the corner of fifth and vermouth
    once again, I’m seeing Peggy Noonan between the lines of every post.

  5. 5.

    The Commenter on BJ formerly known as arguingwithsignposts

    February 12, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    @DougJ®: Personally, the maudlin Tom Waits is the best Tom Waits IMHO.

  6. 6.

    DougJ®

    February 12, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    @Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen:

    Yeah, I like it.

  7. 7.

    MikeJ

    February 12, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Vya.

  8. 8.

    currants

    February 12, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    And Danish subtitles, no less!

  9. 9.

    goblue72

    February 12, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    Could be Carpano Antica was used for the vermouth – its billed as the closest to the “original” Italian vermouth – less sweet, more herbaceous, spicy, complex.

    Could have also used rye instead of the more commonly used bourbon. Rye is the whisky called for in the original Manhattan. Its leaner and less sweet than bourbon. Part of what makes a lot of Manhattans taste sweet is not the vermouth but the brand of bourbon used – Maker’s Mark, which is commonly used, is one of the sweeter tasting bourbons out there. (compared to, say, Buffalo Trace or Bulleit, which have a higher rye content and thus tread closer to a rye whiskey flavor profile)

    On top of that, there’s also the question of what kind of bitters were used. Could have even been cherry bitters.

  10. 10.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    February 12, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    I saw Tom Waits in a small club in Ithaca, NY on a cold, cold winter’s night back in the mid 70’s… the Unicorn, for $5…

    Funny as hell… a friend and I went down from Waterloo and we were falling off our chairs from laughing so hard…

    Oh… and although it’s O/T… has anyone put this up at BJ yet?

    America’s Dying Cities

    And No 4 would be… Rochester, NY…

    Ouch…

    (I grew up in Upstate… over in the Finger Lakes..)

  11. 11.

    MikeJ

    February 12, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    @goblue72: I was going to suggest orange biters.

  12. 12.

    Cat Lady

    February 12, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    @DougJ®:

    The Piano Has Been Drinking Would work too but it’s a bit maudlin.

    Not when he performs it on Fernwood 2night.

  13. 13.

    Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen

    February 12, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    @efgoldman: For that you must consult the list of DEAD cities.

  14. 14.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    February 12, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Ooopsie… didn’t notice the ‘Open Thread’ tag at the top…

    Detroit is No 7 (on Newsweek’s list)…

    And Flint and Grand Rapids also make the list, along w/ Cleveland and South Bend… kind of a Mid West/Great Lakes theme going on here…

    Strangely, Vallejo is the only CA city…

  15. 15.

    DougJ®

    February 12, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    @Cat Lady:

    Great clip.

  16. 16.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    February 12, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    @Cat Lady:

    OMG…

    FernWood 2night…

    Happy Kyne (the great Frank DeVol) & the Mirthmakers, w/ Tommy Tedesco on guitar…

  17. 17.

    aliasofwestgate

    February 12, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity:

    That’s the Rust Belt, as they call us in Michigan/Ohio adn a few of the other surrounding states. Dying, dead, whatever.

  18. 18.

    Cat Lady

    February 12, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity:

    Happy Kyne gets down with Disco Duck. The last minute might be some of the best TV ever made, if best means WTF?

  19. 19.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    February 12, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    @aliasofwestgate:

    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah…

    I see yer point…

    Sad…

    I had an uncle who lived in Detroit (Royal Oak actually) in the 60’s and I took my first real trip, as a kid, to see Detroit, around 1964ish… no doubt there were bad neighborhoods in and around Detroit, but I also remember the city as being pretty alive too… the car industry was still pretty much happening…

    I knew things were bad there but I almost cried when I saw those recent photos the French guys took… I really was not aware of the degree and extent of the decline over the last couple of decades…

  20. 20.

    aliasofwestgate

    February 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity: It’s been in decline almost as long as i’ve been alive. Detroit’s still a music city though. There’s some thriving areas but not as many as before. From all accounts there are are good sized groups of dedicated residents doing their best to bring it back to life in other ways while the Big Three either adapt to the new times or die.

    Michigan was one of the first states to fall even before the Great Recession. We’re definitely going to be one of the last to claw our way out of it. Sad, but true.

  21. 21.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    February 12, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    @Cat Lady:

    Whooooooooaaa…

    THAT’S awesome…

    And that was Tommy T on the banjo in the back, if anyone’s interested…

    Tommy was a legendary session player in LA, back during the day, as were the rest of the Mirthmakers…

    One time Frank Zappa hired Tommy to play on a recording and Tommy reputedly appeared in tights and the kind of hat the Pied Piper would have worn, including a long feather…

    When asked by Zappa, “What’s w/ the get up”… Tommy said something to the effect “Your reputation has preceded you, Frank…”

  22. 22.

    Jim Kakalios

    February 12, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Unable to reverse engineer the drink you had – but for my Manhattans I use crushed ice in a shaker, with two measures Maker’s Mark, one measure sweet vermouth, a few dashes of bitters. shake vigorously and pur entire
    contents with crushed ice into low ball glass. Garnish with maraschinno cherry. The shaking aerates the drink, putting a froth on it that makes it go down smooth.

    Cheers,

    Jim

  23. 23.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    February 12, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    @aliasofwestgate:

    Well, wasn’t that how Michael Moore made his bones – going after Roger Smith after he pulled GM out of the area and headed to Mexico? And that was back in 1989, or so…

    Off for the night here…

    I am reading Nixonland and will be here for tomorrow’s thread…

    Night all…

  24. 24.

    Ruckus

    February 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    @DougJ®:
    Nighthawks is the best. So there’s at least 2 of us.

  25. 25.

    croghan27

    February 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Was that recorded down at the the corner of Heart Attack and Vine? No matter, it is the Piano That’s Been drinking, Not Me him.

  26. 26.

    QDC

    February 12, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Best Manhattan I have had was at Sofitel in Philadelphia. I’ve managed to do a good approximation at home:

    2 parts ri1 (I’ve used cheaper rye at home, but ri1 is great. Bourbon is too sweet.)
    1 part Carpano Antica Vermouth (I can’t find this and use Noilly Pratt with good results.)
    2 dashes citrus bitters
    2 inch piece of orange zest removed with a peeler

    Shake and strain the drink. Warm the orange peel a little with a lighter. Then hold the lighter over the drink and squeeze the peel in half next to it. The oil in the peel will spray through the lighter, ignite and land in the drink. The result is this lovely toasted marshmallow flavor. It’s my favorite drink by far.

  27. 27.

    Ailuridae

    February 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity:

    The Finger Lakes aren’t in upstate though.

    That list seems atrocious. Pittsburgh and Rochester on a list of dying cities?

  28. 28.

    Ailuridae

    February 12, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    And if Rochester qualifies as a dying city how the fuck do you describe, running along I-90 Pittsfield, MA, Troy, Albany, Schenectady, Utica, Syracuse Buffalo and Erie PA?

  29. 29.

    dmsilev

    February 12, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    There’s still a lot of snow on the ground here in Chicago. Most people, myself included, settle for just cursing the stuff. Other people find more creative uses for it:

    http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h272/dmsilev/DSC_0066.jpg
    http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h272/dmsilev/DSC_0063.jpg

    (Seen just outside of Navy Pier; they actual were built a few days before the storm as part of a snow-sculpting contest)

    dms

  30. 30.

    cathyx

    February 12, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    I always wanted to have a Manhattan in Manhattan and a Long Island Ice Tea on Long Island.

  31. 31.

    frosty

    February 12, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity: I saw Tom at the Golden Bear in Huntington Beach, about the same time. I still remember him pulling a beer bottle out of his inside coat pocket, which he claimed he bought at Brooks Brothers: “Good and Will.”

  32. 32.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    February 12, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    @Ruckus: Three of us, at least.

  33. 33.

    Yutsano

    February 12, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    @cathyx: The beauty of it all being that if you can manage one the odds are quite high you could pull off the other.

  34. 34.

    Dr Dave

    February 12, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Tom Waits brings up a couple of good memories–a high school buddy who would spontaneously break into a chorus of “The Piano Has Been Drinking (not me)” and a grad school buddy who had a sufficiently twisted sense of humor to have the DJ play “Better Off Without a Wife” at the wedding reception. (They are still married more than 25 years later–she’s a good sport!)

    And since we’re talking booze, let me put in a plug for the brew I’m enjoying for dessert, the Black Chocolate Stout from Brooklyn Brewery.

  35. 35.

    frosty

    February 12, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    My all-time favorite Tom Waits songs remains: “Friday Left Me Fumblin’ With the Blues” …

    And it’s hard to win when you always lose.
    ‘Cause the night spots spend your spirit
    Beat your head against the wall.
    Two dead ends, you’ve still got to choose.

    Second album, still my fave.

  36. 36.

    Mayur

    February 12, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Oy vey.

    3 rye: 1 sweet vermouth: 2 dashes Angostura bitters. Stirred, not shaken.

    Rittenhouse BIB and Carpano Antica Formula are definitely acceptable standards. Michters or Templeton Small Batch up the ante a bit. And it is absolutely rye, not bourbon, that is the standard.

  37. 37.

    redactor

    February 12, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    I agree with others that a rye and/or a vermouth other than Martini & Rosso–Carpano Antico, Dolin blanc–would contribute to the smooth but not overly sweet taste. Many bartenders these days are using a dash of Luxardo (maraschino liqueur) in various drinks, which might account for the hint of cherry, although it would up the sweetness a tad.

    I have found over time that as much as I love to drink whiskey neat, I am not overly fond of mixed whiskey drinks. There are some I don’t hate, but none that I love. For amixed drink I work my way around the bar, but I always come back to gin.

  38. 38.

    Alison

    February 12, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity: Vallejo? Hahahaha.

    From the article: “This has made the city a less desirable place to live and unfortunately, not much may change in the near future.”

    I’ve lived in the Bay Area my whole life and I can’t remember when Vallejo was ever considered a desirable place to live. People lived there because they had to, i.e. couldn’t afford to live anywhere nicer/closer to their jobs. The only reason anyone goes there is the stupid amusement park, or the upper middle class kids who drive in from Marin to hit the thrift stores (yeah, I was one of those assholes in high school).

    I mean, housing crunch okay whatev, but it seems like a city needs to have been somewhat “alive” at some point for it to be considered “dying” now.

  39. 39.

    Keith

    February 12, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    And “oy vey” back at you Mayur. Iabsolutely agree with you that Rittenhouse 100 and Carpano Antica make a great Manhattan, but I’ll advocate for a two to one ratio and one dash of Boker’s bitters & one dash of Angostura bitters. Stirred. (Always stirred…. and always up). I’m also a fan of the baby Sazerac rye, but then I switch to Martini or Cinzano vermouth and 1 dash Angostura and 1 dash Peychaud’s. I recently got off of my high horse and tried a Manhattan with Elijah Craig 12-year Bourbon (horrors!) and Dolin Rouge with The Bitter Truth Jerry Thomas Bitters. Wow! I never though I would see a bourbon Manhattan that would make me reconsider Rye- but this is it!!

  40. 40.

    Wag

    February 12, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    “Nighthawks” is by far my favorite Tam Waits album. For me the standout line is “the sky turned the color of Pepto-bismol”. Ice seen a few sunrises like that.

    Most people don’t realize it, but The Terminal Bar that he references as being on 17 th and Wazee was an actual bar in LoDo Denver. We went there a few time and it was as downtrodden a skid row bar as you could imagine. Very entertaining.

  41. 41.

    cathyx

    February 12, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    @Yutsano: Hah! Very funny and very true.

  42. 42.

    Wag

    February 12, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    … and the new tagline for Saturday night open threads should be “Looking for the Heart of Saturday Night Open Thread”

  43. 43.

    goblue72

    February 12, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    @Keith
    @Mayur

    Ever try Tuthilltown’s Hudson Manhanttan Rye? Its a small batch rye, 100% rye, bottled at 94 proof. Floral & fruity. Fantastic on its own or in a Manhattan.

  44. 44.

    goblue72

    February 12, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    @Mayur: A shaken Manhattan needs to be sent back to the bartender. Over-diluted, with icy shards, blech.

  45. 45.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 12, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    @redactor:

    but I always come back to gin.

    Truth.

  46. 46.

    hilts

    February 12, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    “Young Americans for Freedom has voted Ron Paul off its national advisory board in the aftermath of his straw poll win at CPAC over his positions on national security issues. “It’s a sad day in American history when a one-time conservative/libertarian stalwart has fallen more out of touch with America’s needs for national security then our current socialist presidential regime,” said the group’s national director Jordan Marks.”

    h/t http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49412.html

  47. 47.

    burnspbesq

    February 12, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    @The Republic of Stupidity:

    I would guess that at least 12 out of America’s top 10 dying cities are in Upstate. The most depressing way I can think of to spend half a day would be to start out on Central Avenue in Albany and drive west on Route 5 through one old factory town after another.

  48. 48.

    Steeplejack

    February 12, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    Night shift checking in. Just got home from work about half an hour ago.

    No Manhattan on my drinking horizon tonight, but I did buy one for Kathleen Turner in Philadelphia last March. So there’s that, in a six-degrees-of-separation kind of way. The drink was nothing special, just one from an upscale hotel bar. Miss Turner was marvelous.

  49. 49.

    Yutsano

    February 12, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    @Steeplejack: Oh you must have been there when she was doing that play that the title of which is escaping me. I heard tell she was fantastic in it too.

  50. 50.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 12, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    @Steeplejack: Shut up. For real? I haz a jelus.

    And, since I don’t drink, I will just contribute this. It fits my mood.

    @Yutsano: Hi, hon. How you be?

  51. 51.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 12, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    Oh, and this is me letting my inner Sojourner Truth out.

  52. 52.

    KG

    February 12, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    any MMA fans around here? Fedor vs Silva is about to start.

  53. 53.

    Yutsano

    February 12, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    @asiangrrlMN: Debating if it’s a milkshake night. Signs are pointing towards yes but no final determination has been made.

  54. 54.

    Steeplejack

    February 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    @Yutsano:

    Was I there?! Dude, I was there. One of the authors of the play, Red Hot Patriot: The Kick-Ass Wit of Molly Ivins, is an old friend of mine. We drove up to Philadelphia, saw the play and went out with Ms. Turner afterwards. And we ate at some great restaurants, including a dive in South Philly that served the best cheesesteak sandwich I have ever had in my life.

    Juicers in Texas: Red Hot Patriot is now playing at the ZACH Theater in Austin with Barbara Chisholm starring. Check it out.

  55. 55.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    @Yutsano: Really?? The Dawg’s in town? Do tell!

  56. 56.

    DougJ®

    February 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I’m glad there’s at least one other sane person out there.

  57. 57.

    DougJ®

    February 12, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Tell us more. I’m not a celebrity person, but Kathleen Turner is the bomb.

  58. 58.

    Yutsano

    February 12, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    @asiangrrlMN: Heh. U funny. You know damn well I wouldn’t be on here if that were the case. At least not at this time of night. Wink wink nudge nudge.

  59. 59.

    Keith

    February 12, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    Goblue:

    Nope. I’ve been wanting to try the Tuthilltown but the rather daunting price for 375ml has held me back. I’ve got an order for a bottle of both Willett and Templeton rye on the way (along with an unexpected bottle of the Marteau absinthe that pretty much isn’t available anymore)- so that will blow my liquor budget for a while! Also- based on the Whistlepig 100% rye (which I hated) I’ve been unsure about pure ryes. Your recommendation will nudge me along though!

    I’ve also been thinking of buying one of Tuthilltown’s small used barrels in order to experiment with aged Manhattans a la Jeffrey Morgenthaler at Clyde Common in Portland, OR.

  60. 60.

    JWL

    February 12, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    Does anyone else wonder what Arianna Huffington is doing tonight? She’s such a fox.

  61. 61.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 12, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    @Yutsano: Well, you said milkshake, and as we were talking about milkshakes in an earlier thread, I put two and two together and got five, apparently. I McEstimated wrong!

  62. 62.

    AnotherBruce

    February 12, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    @MikeJ: Because I have a juvenile sense of humor, exactly what use of John Boehner are you suggesting?

  63. 63.

    goblue72

    February 12, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    @Keith: I’ve had the aged Negroni’s at Clyde Common. Quite tasty. Was thinking of doing the same aged cocktails thing myself with a bunch of friends in order to split the cost of the booze. I think you’d need to buy enough booze to fill most of the barrel to avoid to much oxidation if there was a lot of airspace left.

  64. 64.

    Yutsano

    February 12, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    @asiangrrlMN: Gastritis broke your mental calculator.

    @Steeplejack: I bet Austin is about the only place where that play gets appreciated in Texas. Maybe in the more liberal parts of Houston and San Antonio, but that’s it.

  65. 65.

    suzanne

    February 12, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    @Steeplejack: That’s so rad. I’m jealous. My ex-husband once shared a drink with Exene Cervenka. I was jealous of him, too.

    Husband and I dropped the baby off with her grandma for the evening, then went for a good run with the dog before, well, yeah, you know. And I made some kick-ass tabouli and chicken souvlaki for dinner. MMMMM.

    I am awesome.

  66. 66.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 12, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    @Yutsano: Or in my case, hornyassitis. Harrumph.

    @suzanne: I haz a jelus. See my reply to Yutsy, and you can figure out why.

  67. 67.

    Yutsano

    February 12, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    @suzanne: I make a mean spanakopita and also am trying to find a decent version of agvolemono soup. We should cook together next time I’m down Arizona way. Don’t know when as all my friends down there got hitched. Except the gay Communist, but I’ll get him there.

  68. 68.

    Keith

    February 12, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    @Goblue,
    Yep, I’ve tried the aged Negroni there as well. Super-yummy (AND Morgenthaler is kinds hot, but I digress….)

  69. 69.

    Mayur

    February 13, 2011 at 12:04 am

    @Keith: We do an aged martinez at our bar. I’ve been thinking about blending and aging an old-fashioned, actually, but I’m not too into the whole barrel-aged cocktail thing.

    Not a big fan of the baby Hudson, myself; I just think that if I were spending real money on rye, I’d do the Michter’s or Thomas Handy. That said, I’m not really a rye guy, so I’d let others comment.

  70. 70.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    February 13, 2011 at 12:08 am

    @JWL:

    I’d like to think that where ever she is, she is singing…

    New York is where I’d rather stay.
    I get allergic smelling hay.
    I just adore a penthouse view.
    Dah-ling I love you but give me Park Avenue.

  71. 71.

    suzanne

    February 13, 2011 at 12:08 am

    @Yutsano: Spanakopita? Say no more. I’m down. I’m not planning on being in Seattle anytime soon, unfortunately. All my relatives, well, died.
    @asiangrrlMN: I’m sorry you’re in a shitty mood. Maybe YOU need the milkshake.

    Just got barfed on. Oi. Well, at least this was the first time today.

  72. 72.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 13, 2011 at 12:10 am

    @suzanne: I do need a milkshake. Except, I’m lactose intolerant. Sorry. I snorted at the baby throwing up on you. I’m a bitch. What can I say?

  73. 73.

    Yutsano

    February 13, 2011 at 12:11 am

    @suzanne: My mom and I have bandied around making dolmas, but we just haven’t invested the time or the energy yet. I may bring it up when I go home next weekend. Four days off, yee-fucking-haw.

    @asiangrrlMN: FWIW I did too. She can just kill us later for it.

  74. 74.

    Tom Hilton

    February 13, 2011 at 12:11 am

    Before I was 21, Manhattans were my drink of choice because I knew if I ordered one I was guaranteed not to get carded. Never ever failed. Not even once.

    I got turned on to Punt e Mes (sweet vermouth) for Negronis, and it was life-changing. I haven’t tried making a Manhattan with Punt e Mes, but I’m betting it would be really goddamn good.

    One other thing: a lot of lesser bars just leave out the Angostura bitters, which is completely wrong on about a dozen levels.

  75. 75.

    Anne Laurie

    February 13, 2011 at 12:13 am

    @Alison:

    I mean, housing crunch okay whatev, but it seems like a city needs to have been somewhat “alive” at some point for it to be considered “dying” now.

    Ya think? Newsweek decided to use the metrics of overall population decline since the previous census, combined with the percentage of “young people” leaving. Which is, of course, why New Orleans tops the list. But people want to live in New Orleans — and not just the Katrina refugees, either. Same goes for Detroit, because it’s still got the advantages of location that put it there in the first place, and enough infrastructure/history to keep people moving in. I’m not gonna argue about Flint or South Bend, but I think the real shortcoming of this list is that the numbers they’re using don’t differentiate between Cities-with-A-Purpose and Exurban-People-Storage-Lockers, places that exist because personal automotive transport was “cheap” for the fifty years or so after WWII. So — Vallejo, Hialeah, but also places like Scottsdale and even Las Vegas, which were thrown together with plywood & NINJA loans because for a brief golden era working-class retirees could afford air-conditioned ranches.

  76. 76.

    Keith

    February 13, 2011 at 12:14 am

    Mayur:
    Mmmm… Martinez! What a great drink!!
    Yeah, other than the occasional bottle of absinthe I try to keep my per bottle price under $50. That’s one reason I have fallen in love with the Elijah Craig 12 yr. bourbon. I just tasted it side by side with my Four Roses Single Barrel and it holds its own for about half the price.

  77. 77.

    jurassicpork

    February 13, 2011 at 12:15 am

    Unemployment, financial catastrophe… It never frigging ends. Even Job eventually got barfed out by the whale. When will it be our time?

  78. 78.

    JenJen

    February 13, 2011 at 12:20 am

    Did you see the bartender make it? In a Traditional Manhattan, a cherry would be muddled with a dash of bitters before the icing, vermouth, and bourbon pour.

    But I’m thinking you would’ve noticed a little texture at the end of the drink, so probably it wasn’t truly old-school. Sounds yummy, whatever it was.

  79. 79.

    Keith

    February 13, 2011 at 12:24 am

    @Tom Hilton:
    I spend a lot of time in Brazil because my BF is Brazilian, and Rye (and most other American whiskeys) is unavailable there. However there is plenty of Jack Daniels for some reason. It makes a drab Manhattan with standard vermouth but a wonderful one with Punt-e-Mes! A rye and P-e-M Manhattan can be good two, but not my favorite.

    (If they leave out the bitters then they aren’t a bartender)

  80. 80.

    DougJ®

    February 13, 2011 at 12:25 am

    @JenJen:

    No, I didn’t, I’m going back to see how it was made.

  81. 81.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 12:25 am

    @DougJ®:

    I was just sort of along for the ride. I hadn’t seen Peggy (Margaret Engel, coauthor of the play with her sister Allison) in a long time, we happened to reconnect, and she said we should go see the play, which was about to end its run. So we drove up to Philadelphia (from Washington) for the weekend. Saw the play and, as I said, went out for a drink with Kathleen Turner afterwards.

    Turner is still a very charismatic figure in her mid-50s. Not quite “OMG! It’s Kathleen Turner,” more like “Hmm, that woman looks very familiar, and she is making my spidey sense tingle.” She was very down-to-earth, very “real.” She and Peggy discussed the play a good bit, comparing notes, etc.

    I was struck by how alone she was. Once the play gets staged and the run starts, the director leaves (other commitments), the authors are not around, so she’s on her own. There was a stage manager, a “dresser” (or assistant), a few other people, and that was it. So Turner was living in a small suite in a hotel in Philadelphia and doing a one-person show eight times a week. That must take incredible discipline.

    She seems to have made a good transition from “hot leading lady” to “mature actress.” Peggy said that Turner deliberately started doing stage work a long time ago to ease the transition. And her IMDB page shows that she is still working regularly in film and TV, too.

    While I was sitting there listening to the two of them talk, I was struck by the realization of what a big star she is. Easy to forget how many big movies of the ’80s she was in. Worked with Jack Nicholson, Michael Douglas, William Hurt. Was in some really iconic movies–Romancing the Stone, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Peggy Sue Got Married. Was nominated for an Oscar, won a couple of Golden Globes. She’s done it all.

    And I remembered the Manhattan thing tonight because that was the one moment when she seemed to go off on a diva angle. Took her about five minutes to order the drink, the requirements were so complicated, and I remember thinking about our Eurotrash waiter, “I hope you’re getting this, Vlad, because if you bring her a bad drink you’re a dead man.” But the drink was apparently suitable.

  82. 82.

    Bloix

    February 13, 2011 at 12:26 am

    God, he’s young in that clip.

  83. 83.

    Keith

    February 13, 2011 at 12:31 am

    @JenJen:
    Are you sure you aren’t mis-remembering a 1950s era Old-Fashioned with muddled fruit?
    I’ve never heard of an old-school Manhattan with muddled cherry. The original recipe in Jerry Thomas’ “Bon Vivant’s Companion” does add a dash of maraschino liqueur and garnishes with lemon.

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 12:33 am

    @Yutsano:

    It was strange, the night I saw the play in Philadelphia there was a huge contingent of Texans (a hundred or so) who had come up specifically to see the play. There was a big catered dinner for them in the theater before the show. I sat next to the publisher (I think) of Texas Monthly and discussed the fine points of chili recipes (no beans if you’re in Texas). Not all of them, or even a majority, were from Austin. I think Ivins was tremendously popular with a stratum of old-line, well-to-do Democrats that runs across (the top of) Texas society, not just the liberal/commie enclave in Austin.

  85. 85.

    JenJen

    February 13, 2011 at 12:35 am

    @DougJ®:Just for the record, I would be super-excited and flattered if any guest came back and asked me how I made that delicious Manhattan, so I hope you report back.

    @Keith: An Old Fashioned is something completely different, with a muddled orange, cherry, bitters and sugar, topped with a splash of soda nd garnished with a flag (orange and cherry). The recipe I’m referring to above is what is known as the “traditional” Manhattan around these parts, so maybe it’s a regional thing? It’s not the same Manhattan as the kind I’d usually make, but the muddled one is popular around here, still.

  86. 86.

    suzanne

    February 13, 2011 at 12:46 am

    @Steeplejack: I like that she has a sense of humor about herself, too… taking that role as Chandler’s dad on “Friends” was hilarious.
    @asiangrrlMN: @Yutsano: Aw, thanks, guys. Fuck you very much. ;)
    It’s all right. I’m enough of a twat myself that I would laugh if it was someone else. At least I can admit it.

    If it makes you feel better, she just did it AGAIN. Right after I changed my shirt. I seriously don’t know why I bother. I think I’m just going to go topless and save myself the laundry.

  87. 87.

    Yutsano

    February 13, 2011 at 12:47 am

    @Steeplejack: One of my co-workers is from Texas, and we got into a discussion about barbecue. Or I should say I got into a proselytization with him. That word has a very specific meaning down that way. And I’m certain a Texas Democrat is a whole other kettle of fish than what you’d find up this way.

    And ordering a drink a particular way is not quite what I would call diva behavior. That may have to do with my Jewish step-grandmother, but I digress. If she sent it back five times getting more shrill every time, that’s a diva moment.

  88. 88.

    Yutsano

    February 13, 2011 at 12:49 am

    @suzanne:

    I think I’m just going to go topless and save myself the laundry.

    I bet neither the baby nor your husband will complain about this. :)

  89. 89.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 12:51 am

    @suzanne:

    One thing about baby vomit is that they’re so amiable and offhand about it that you just can’t hold it against them.

    Unlike cats.

  90. 90.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 12:53 am

    @Yutsano:

    Well, keep in mind that my comment is coming from someone who thinks he is unnecessarily burdening the waiter when he orders a Tanqueray and tonic instead of just gin and tonic. The Turner Manhattan was way beyond that.

    ETA: And it wasn’t diva-y like she was being an asshole. It was just very detailed and very specific. Definitely not “Only green M&Ms in my dressing room,” but you sort of got a whiff of that, or the potential for that.

  91. 91.

    Yutsano

    February 13, 2011 at 12:56 am

    @Steeplejack: You probably shouldn’t eat out with my step-grandmother then. Her order can take up to ten minutes while she relays every single specification and requirement. And even if it comes out exact, she’ll send it back at least once. Her record is seven times. And she refused to have my father pay her portion. Needless to say we don’t go out with her much.

  92. 92.

    suzanne

    February 13, 2011 at 12:56 am

    @Steeplejack: Oh, God. Don’t even get me started on cats. I don’t know why I let this kitten into my house. I hate kittens! Kittens suck! Cats are fabulous, but kittens are pure, unadulterated id.

    But you’re right about the baby barf. Plus, they look so SAD and confused that you can’t help put take pity on them. You know what my problem is? I’m too soft. All these damn cute little creatures need to start earning their keep, SHIIIIT.

    @Yutsano: I’m worried he’s gonna get all blasé about ’em!

  93. 93.

    Keith

    February 13, 2011 at 12:58 am

    @JenJen:

    Yes, I just wondered if you were confused with the Old-Fashioned Whisky Cocktail because of your comment on muddling (and before I realized that you are behind the stick and of course know the difference!).

    It’s just that I’ve never, ever heard of muddling the cherry amongst all the numerous ways of making a Manhattan and your comments have sent me to my books and I can’t find any pre-1940s reference to it. However it does pop up in some web searches- are you by any chance in the Denver area? It does seem like a regional thing and I’ll have to give it a try!

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 1:03 am

    @Yutsano:

    You probably shouldn’t eat out with my step-grandmother then.

    You are correct, sir. There would be blood.

    My reaction to people like that is always: “You want that much control, stay home and make it yourself.”

  95. 95.

    suzanne

    February 13, 2011 at 1:09 am

    @Steeplejack:

    My reaction to people like that is always: “You want that much control, stay home and make it yourself.”

    When I worked foodservice, my reaction to people like that was to give them a little bit of extra Windex on their burger.

  96. 96.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 1:10 am

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Good post at ABL. Keep the faith, baby.

  97. 97.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2011 at 1:11 am

    @suzanne:

    Eww. Thanks for sharing.

  98. 98.

    Yutsano

    February 13, 2011 at 1:12 am

    @Steeplejack: @suzanne: This is why we only invite her over to my parents’ house for dinner now. If she dared say anything negative about my mom’s cooking she wouldn’t survive the night. And it isn’t my mother that would kill her.

  99. 99.

    JenJen

    February 13, 2011 at 1:15 am

    @Keith: Denver would be awesome, but, Cincinnati, right across the Ohio River from Bourbon Country.

    The Traditional Manhattan (regional name, probably called something else somewhere else) was taught to me by local bartenders through the years, and I don’t know that it’s the sort of thing that would show up in a search. I’d highly recommend making one, though. I like to muddle the hell out of a stemless cherry, dash of bitters (6-8 shakes) and 1/8th teaspoon of brown sugar in the bottom of a rocks glass, add ice, add about 10 drops of sweet vermouth evenly over the ice, and pour two ounces of the best Bourbon in your stash. Garnish with cherry, of course. :-)

  100. 100.

    suzanne

    February 13, 2011 at 1:17 am

    @Steeplejack: Hey, I was young.
    @Yutsano: That’s awesome.

  101. 101.

    Keith

    February 13, 2011 at 1:26 am

    @JenJen:
    Wow! Making one of those will force me to reject everything I hold dear in Manhattan-ology including the ratio of spirit to vermouth AND serving it on the rock instead of u;, but I’m game and will give it a try!

  102. 102.

    JenJen

    February 13, 2011 at 1:32 am

    @Keith: Then, just drink it, enjoy the regional aspect, and call it something else; that’s the beauty of it! Manhattan Orthodoxy is for the birds, anyway, if you ask this bartender.

  103. 103.

    Yutsano

    February 13, 2011 at 1:39 am

    @JenJen: I believe the line you’re looking for is “Why don’t we get drunk and screw?”

  104. 104.

    Keith

    February 13, 2011 at 1:39 am

    @JenJen:
    Advice to live by!!

  105. 105.

    asiangrrlMN

    February 13, 2011 at 2:46 am

    @Steeplejack: Thanks, Steepman. ‘Preciate it. And, I would not eat out with Yutsy’s step-grandmama, either. My drinks are always simple. Gin and tonic. Rum and diet coke. Amaretto sour. Like that.

    @suzanne: Bwahahahahahahha! I iz big bitch when I don’t get the bow-chick-bow-bow on a regular basis–which is most of the damn time.

  106. 106.

    goblue72

    February 13, 2011 at 2:59 am

    @JenJen: Please don’t top off an Old Fashioned with soda water. It ruins the drink. I’d even toss the muddled orange and cherry combo. Its not really historically accurate and tends to detract from the drink. Express or muddle an orange peel at most. Sugar, bitters, spirits, water(ice). That’s it. You’re customers will thank you for it.

    For a great historical run-down of the Old Fashioned, Audrey Saunders’ husband does a great job:

    http://www.drinkboy.com/Articles/Article.aspx?itemid=20

    Jeffrey Morganthaler has a nice video of the same:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LufrnOktZiA&feature=player_embedded#at=35

  107. 107.

    goblue72

    February 13, 2011 at 3:16 am

    @Mayur: I had a bottle of Black Maple Hill’s 23 Year Rye (back before they ran out). Cost around $130 for the bottle from what I recall. Best damn American whiskey I’ve ever hand, hands down. Spicy rye backbone, but brown sugar on the mouth then mellow oak and spice with fruit (apple) on the edges. Finish just goes on and on and on.

    Worth every penny. If I had known they were so close to running out (forever) when I bought the bottle, I would have bought 3. Or a case and split with friends. Life’s too short and all.

  108. 108.

    Kat

    February 13, 2011 at 3:45 am

    Make sure you post the recipe, after you go back and find out how the Manhattan is made !!!!

  109. 109.

    Chris Dowd

    February 13, 2011 at 7:07 am

    I had a bag cheezits- wonderful- salty yet crunchy on the corner of whofuckncares and shutthefuckup.

  110. 110.

    redactor

    February 13, 2011 at 11:12 am

    @Yutsano: The avgolemono recipe in the New York Times Cookbook (the original, by Craig Claiborne) is pretty good.

  111. 111.

    Glen Tomkins

    February 13, 2011 at 11:49 am

    The only thing that improves whatever taste there is in hard liquor is having had too many already that evening. By the time they taste really good, of course, you’re liable to not remember the experience the morning after, so on the evening in question you must have hit that sweet spot between being intoxicated enough to imagine that any Manhattan might taste good, and oblivion.

  112. 112.

    Ruckus

    February 13, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    @DougJ®:
    sane? SANE? Are you kidding me? You obviously don’t know me, basing that sort of a observation on such limited info.

    BTW, that’s the nicest complement I’ve had in a long time.

  113. 113.

    Bucky55

    February 13, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    I had a great one too. The bartender told me that he used Jim Beam Red Stag which is infused with Black Cherry, but not sweet and a good Italian vermouth.

  114. 114.

    redactor

    February 13, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    @Glen Tomkins: Well, that’s just wrong. People who like the effect of alcohol but don’t like the taste generally tend to go for vodka, which ideally doesn’t taste like anything and in practice disappears into whatever you mix with it. Vodka sells extremely well, but there’s a reason that liquor stores offer other things.

    I used to drink Martinis almost exclusively (Tanqueray with a dash of Noilly Prat), but lately I have been branching out. The Corpse Reviver #2 and Last Word are delicious and would be even if the alcohol had no effect whatsoever. Actually, that would be a blessing because then I could have more than one.

  115. 115.

    JenJen

    February 14, 2011 at 4:01 am

    @goblue72: I think there are many ways to make an Old Fashioned, and my guests have thanked me for many that I’ve made. I’m not into disparaging other bartenders’ recipes, or telling anyone that they’re doin’ it wrong (unless they’re a complete noob). Bartending is so much more regional than people realize, and I don’t think this technique or that one shake or an adherence to mixology orthodoxy makes any cocktail right, or wrong, or tastier, or worse.

    Just my approach to real-world bartending, and as such I’m always open to something different.

  116. 116.

    JenJen

    February 14, 2011 at 4:36 am

    @goblue72:

    @Mayur: A shaken Manhattan needs to be sent back to the bartender. Over-diluted, with icy shards, blech

    Agree x1000.

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